Hypnotherapy for Behavior Change

Welcome to the Heal, Nourish, Grow podcast. I'm Cheryl McColgan, founder of Heal, Nourish, Grow. The website, this show, and our newsletter all focus on making the science of advanced nutrition and greater overall health accessible to everyone. Buckle up for our latest episode to get ideas, tools, and practical knowledge you can use to improve your health and move towards your perfect version of ultimate wellness. The Heal, Nourish, Grow podcast shares interviews with nutrition experts, health researchers, and everyday people that have changed their lifestyle and nutrition to support greater health. You'll learn how to implement lasting change and create new habits that support greater wellness and a happier, healthier life. Please visit healnourishgrowpodcast.com for full show notes and links to our guests.

Dr. Lloyd Glauberman is a Manhattan psychotherapist focusing on stress management and behavior change, anxiety, and mood disorders. His approach is centered around lifestyle management through an understanding of how timing and rhythm affect our core behavioral ecosystem: eating, moving, and sleeping. His newest project, Lifestyle Intelligence App, is a cutting-edge vehicle that takes unique psychoeducational approach to relearning, rebuilding, and maintaining harmony among these three core elements in order to catalyze positive change. Previously, Dr. Glauberman introduced Hypno Peripheral Processing, an audio technology that combines stress management with behavioral change. His unique hypno storytelling approach allows individuals to effortlessly enter and utilize a hypnagogic state, the psychological space between between waking and sleeping, which is our most receptive state. An article about his work appeared in the New York Times. His early work included training Syracuse police officers in family crisis intervention. More recently, he has become a writer for Psychology Today, and his first article introduced lifestyle intelligence to the public.

Hi everyone, welcome to the Heal, Nourish, Grow podcast. Today I am joined by Dr. Lloyd Glauberman, but he has generously said that I should call him Lloyd during the show. But just so you know, he is a doctor. I, of course, you heard that in his official bio. But Lloyd, I'd really love if you could share with audience now, just in your own words, what got you into this line of work and what got you interested in helping people with their health and wellness?

I stumbled into the profession of psychology after I graduated from college. And at the time, in addition to being in college, I played drums in a rock and roll band. And like everybody else, I wanted to be a rock star.

Of course.

As the fact that we're talking right now just lets everybody know, that never happened. So I had to figure out something else. And it was during that time when Vietnam War was still in play. And the only way to avoid being involved with that in an appropriate fashion was to work for the government in the health professions in some kind of way. And I stumbled across a job at the Massachusetts Mental Health Center, which was a psychiatric facility for residents of Harvard. So it was an up-tempo, really smart bunch of folks kind of thing. And so I walked in off the street, went upstairs to the person who was in charge of personnel. And I said, you by chance don't have any jobs available, do you? For people who might want to begin a career. And they said, um, did you graduate college? And I said, yeah, 7 days ago. They said, fine. When can you start? What do you mean, when can I start? I'm not even sitting down in your office. I said, are you, are you actually hiring me right now? She said, yeah, you look like you can do the job. Monday. Okay. That started my career, that bizarre set of circumstances. So I get there and I am now a psychiatric aide helping deal with and support people who have severe emotional problems, obviously, because they've been hospitalized. And I was getting very nice feedback from the staff, from the nurses who had been there for decades, from the psychiatric residents that said, you know, You should go into the business. Hence, I did. I started applying to graduate school. I got married early. My wife and I moved to California. I bumbled and stumbled through the whole process and finally got my doctorate from Syracuse in 1976. Came to New York, took the licensing exam, and here we are decades later, and I'm still involved in the business, and it's still enjoyable, even though—

That's what I'm interested in. That's such an amazing story. And it's funny actually how much we have in common because people that have listened to the podcast before might know that my background is in psychology and I did go to graduate school for psychology as well, but I did not finish unlike you. And I also wanted to be a rock star, played the saxophone for many years.

Oh yeah. Yeah. We, we have a lot in common. Welcome to the, those who didn't make it.

Welcome to the wild and wonderful world of health and wellness. But I think obviously the, the, The fact that you're still excited about it and still coming out with new things, even, you know, further along in your career is really amazing. One of the things that caught my eye when your team reached out was that you also work with hypnotherapy. And that's something, a topic that I've never covered on the show before. It's not something that I have ever really looked deeply into other than, you know, the old movies where the guy's, you know, waving the clock in front of the face or something. That is about the extent of my knowledge. So I'd love it if you would just share with me and the audience What exactly is hypnotherapy and then how have you been using it to help people change their behaviors?

In a variety of different ways. I'll go through my own understanding of it. I mean, hypnosis is one of those magical terms, right? I mean, when, when you say somebody is in hypnotherapy as opposed to psychotherapy, like I'm doing CBT, you know, I'm doing hypnosis. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. You get, you get that kind of thing. People don't realize that trance is something that we are in and out of all day long. But because it's so commonplace and we're so used to it, we don't call it hypnosis. We just call it, for instance, daydreaming. Have you ever been in a really deep daydream when somebody's calling your name 1, 2, 3 times and you finally hear it and go, realize they had called you by your name 3 times and you didn't hear it?

Absolutely.

That's a hypnotic trance state, but it's not called that then because nobody's talking to you to go deeper and deeper. You're just doing it on your own, right? People don't realize how much life is in and out of trance. Another commonplace experience, you're listening to music. And suddenly a tune pops up from your high school years, one of your favorite years, right? And suddenly your mind kind of goes back in time and is beginning to relive that moment. In hypnosis, that's called age regression. But when you're listening to it by yourself, you don't call it anything. You're just in the past and enjoying that moment of thinking about something that occurred back. All of those experiences that occur in hypnosis are wired into us. And occur all the time, where little bits and pieces of audio voices in our head floating in and out of consciousness. And sometimes we don't realize that it's happening. The next thing we're feeling kind of strange because we didn't notice that we started talking to ourselves and denigrating ourselves because other things are going on. You didn't pay much attention. All of that is a self-hypnotic thing. So, so much of hypnosis is experiences that we're having. But because it doesn't have the aura of somebody on stage telling somebody to bark like a dog, you know what I mean? And them doing it, right? Because we think about it, mind control, power, and that kind of thing. It's not like hypnosis can't be useful. Of course it can be, but it has to be understood within the context of everything else that goes on in our, in our minds. These are skills that we all have, but we don't know that. So the whole idea is to generate ways to introduce information to people so they will somehow store it and use it. One of the more interesting ways of doing hypnosis is called conversational hypnosis. It's, you're talking to somebody and you'll be talking at a certain pace, like I'm talking right now, and then you'll pause and speak a little bit slower and say a few words about how, wouldn't it be interesting to be able to solve that problem that you're having? And maybe some point you got that change in pace and noticing how words get marked out. Anybody who does hypnosis really well knows how to mark out words to the listener in a way that tends not to bring attention to them. Because the whole idea is get around the conscious mind so you can hear things without knowing it, so you can respond in a positive way at the right times, in the right places, and with the right people.

So, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Yeah. Yeah.

And it's a much more— that's not as woo woo as I would've expected. Um, and one, one question to clarify something that you said earlier before we kind of move on with, you know, how you use that to help people, cuz I do have a couple questions around that. But the thing that came to mind when you were describing how we all may have experienced this before or have this skill. Is it, so I think a lot of people that listen to this might be familiar with kind of flow state, like artists and sports people and golfers and that kind of thing. When you were describing that, I immediately thought of flow state, cuz you're kind of in a subconscious state for lack of a better term. And maybe you can describe it better. Would you say that that's similar to hypnosis or that's sort of a different phenomenon?

That's a very productive trance state. You are not in everyday consciousness. Your focus is completely different and it's focused on one particular set of skills or data, visual data that you're dealing with, or auditory data, right? And yeah, that's, that's a very productive self, not a hypnotic trance state, but in a trance state that's productive and focused. Oh yeah. Athletes will talk about that all the time. Musicians talk about, you disengage from the rest of the world. It's you and what's happening.

Yeah.

Altered states of consciousness. That's what's happening.

Okay. So people are familiar with that as well. So I just think it helps color how they can better understand it. So, excuse me, when you use it with people, one of the things that came to mind when you were describing it, I'm sure ideally it's probably better if you know the specific situation that the person's dealing with and maybe know some of their past, cuz I think you could tie in things in that kind of conversational thing. But is it also possible that say somebody's interested in losing weight, could they use something that's just geared towards that topic and have it still work for them? Or is it really just better if it's very specific to the individual?

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If you're trying to help somebody lose weight, you have to kind of figure out what the structure of their experience is and what the problems are, because not everybody has the same set of issues, right? So if you can understand based on what they're telling you, what it is, as you listen to them describe their relationship to food, when, how much, who's around them, what might happen that's negative if they lose weight. Because a lot of times people don't want— people consciously want to lose weight, but they're worried about the kinds of things that would be expected of them if they did. I mean, there, this, this may be an overgeneralization, but I've, I've worked with women who the issue of what will happen If I lose all this weight and have to deal with all that attention I am now going to get, do I have the skills to be able to essentially say no when I need to, if somebody's hitting on me, or am I going to allow myself to be taken advantage of because I don't have that internal resource to be able to control my environment? So I'll play it safe and I'll keep the extra weight on. That's one particular problem. Not everybody's gonna have that problem, but I've seen it enough to know that can be profound. And most people aren't aware of that.

No, that, that makes a lot of sense. It kind of was in my mind, I thought it should be more tailored to the person in the situation for that reason. But then yet you do see occasionally, you know, just random things on the internet, like, you know, hypnotize yourself and lose weight in 30 days. In fact, I've seen this, you know, ad type of ad on Instagram. And so that's one reason why, you know, when I had the opportunity to talk to you, I really wanted to you know, bring that out so that people don't get, um, to try to use tools that might not work very well for them when they could maybe go to a professional or have something that's more tailored to their situation, if that makes sense.

Hypnosis can be very useful when the problem is, is kind of circumscribed in the sense that it's sitting there by itself and you have a competent hypnotist therapist who knows how to use this. And can establish rapport prior to the actual hypnotic induction taking place.

Yeah, that makes sense. And you, so we mentioned, you know, weight loss, cuz that's a popular topic on this show. I know that you have some thoughts around the obesity epidemic and maybe kind of what's driving it and what tools that you have that might help people with that. Can you add a little more color around, you know, just your overall thoughts on what's going on in the world? With that right now, because there's a lot of new interesting things like the GLP-1s on top of it and everything.

Well, it's, it's, it's, it's interesting. Obviously these drugs can be useful. The problem is what's the message being sent? The message is your behavior is now an illness. So whatever. So how, how is this going to spread out even farther in terms of other kinds of things, right? Right now, lifestyle is destroying the culture. Correct? People are spending a lot of time not moving, looking at screens. They're looking— excuse me. They're looking at screens for longer periods of time, impacting their sleep. So less sleep, less movement. Gary, that's a That's a petri dish for obesity because the one thing that's never spoken about as much as other aspects of sleep deprivation is it amps up appetite. Why? Because the brain is tired and the brain needs food. So the brain says, hello, we're hungry. Not really, but I have to make you believe you're hungry. Because I need energy because it's 2 o'clock in the morning and we're still doing Instagram. So what are we going to do? We need something to eat. So much of that is the reason why the obesity epidemic is as it is, coupled with inactivity. So you got kids growing up now. Now, 12.2 million high school kids have to get to school by 8 o'clock. Think about that. What time do they go to bed? I've always thought that was crazy. What time do you think the average high school kid goes to bed?

I know based on ours, they go to bed.

So, so the probability is they need a lot of sleep because that's the time when they're in a growth spurt. They need like 9 hours sleep. How much do they get? Probably 5 hours sleep. So day in, day out, week in, week out, they are chronically sleep deprived, and they're not moving very much. That's why the obesity numbers are creeping towards 50% by the end of the decade. Now, that's going to be impacted by these drugs because, but, but half the country is going to be on these drugs at that point because people are going to just assume, I don't have to worry. I will just do this instead of taking good care of yourself. And all those taking good care of yourself things is just more than weight. Brain develop— it's, it's all the other health-related issues. So we are right now in the midst of a disaster and nobody's doing enough to deal with those aspects of it.

Yeah. Not even, not even just that. I think on top of that, I guess my— cause I think for a lot of people it can be absolutely life-changing. I've heard a lot of stories where people are using it in conjunction with strength training and getting their habits right. And they finally get that you know, I guess for a lot of people, and I feel pretty fortunate that I don't think I've ever had to experience this that much, but just the constant food thoughts and overexaggerated hunger from lack of sleep and all the things that you're saying, that the drug actually quiets that and then they can kind of work on some of these things a little better than they could before.

If that's the case and they end up doing that, then they will need the drug less. Than before, cuz they'll get their body into that place and they said, okay, why not test the waters and see whether I can do this?

Yeah, it's my hope that, that there are doctors using it in that way and, and helping patients towards that kind of thing. But I, I know it's a lot of it's like you're saying, it's kind of just gonna be this bandaid where people take it, they don't work on changing the behaviors, and then, you know, they're stuck with this lifelong thing that they have to use that may or may not have long-term effects. We're just, you know, it has been used for a while, but I think it's still too short to really know if it has an impact on longevity or other things.

I know, I know this from my own experience, because I've been on both ends of the continuum. And, uh, I had one of those shock embarrassing moments when somebody said to me, when they hadn't seen me in a while, this was back in the 1970s. So I'm a couple years out of college and came over for dinner in Los Angeles where we had just moved. Hey Lloyd, let's have dinner. I haven't seen you in 7 years. Fine. First thing out of his mouth was, man, did you gain weight? And that's something in myself. It occurred so slowly that it was invisible. You know, I think a lot of people have that experience. After a while, you just look at yourself and you're looking at yourself for incremental changes. After a while, you don't notice anything has happened. Well, that moment changed my life forever because I never wanted to hear that. So I went through a whole metamorphosis and slowly began to do all the other things that occurred in the '70s as people realized how important exercise was and diet and all those things. So I got addicted to the good things. So, but, but I know what it is to be a whole lot bigger than I was supposed to be. So I understood, and then my belief is, okay, if I can do it, anybody can do it. Well, that's the difference. And you really want people to take more responsibility than they typically want to take. And the drugs are great, but not as many people should be taking them as probably are taking them. And you've got to build in healthy behavior skills into the school system. That has to be critical. Part of the way to do that is in early childhood education, elementary school education, get an educational publisher. To publish a bunch of books on all the typical stuff that kids have to learn, but use lifestyle themes as well in there. So when there's a story about a little kid who, who's walking around town, you found out, yes, and that he walked 3 miles that day and he felt really good about doing that and use math to talk about calories and calories are what we burn. Okay, let's do some math problems with calories. So while you're in your early childhood education, you learn about all those lifestyle areas that are important and therefore have to be woven into the fabric of the way you think and hopefully the way you behave because you learn what you're supposed to be doing.

So you need to send Kennedy a tweet about that or something.

We need an educational publisher to do that. And that can be done relatively easily. Storylines with health behavior woven into the fabric. So kids read about it all the time and they get used to it. All the language. Once you get the language in there, then you're home free. Then they'll, they'll understand.

Yeah, that's an amazing idea. I love that. Hopefully somebody that matters will hear that. So now that we don't have that, unfortunately, right now. So there are so many adults that have not been exposed to that. They get different messages through the media, whether it's these GLP-1s or if they just don't feel like they have the time or the energy to focus on their habits. But I know one of the things that you help people with a lot is behavior change. And so I'd love to hear how you work with adults on these things when they're working on implementing new healthy behaviors. What are some of your best tips and ways that you get people to make these changes and make them sustainable and actually make them stick? Because that's definitely a big area of interest of mine. So I'm always interested in hearing other ideas about that.

Well, lots of times people don't have all the information that they need. So I always begin with, what's the most important thing that you do? And people will pause and they'll say something, right? And I'll say, nope, the most important thing you do is sleep. And there's a critical look on most people's faces when you say that, because it's Sleep is this magical thing, except you don't remember any of it except bits and pieces of a dream. But when you start talking to people and letting them know what actually happens while they sleep, they begin to understand how important it is. And I remember 2017, there was a piece of research that came out that I thought after I read what it was about, that it would go viral. Through the culture. I was wrong. It didn't happen at all. So I'm taking it upon myself to tell everybody if they missed it. And that is, while you sleep, the brain cleans itself. Now think about that. I mean, the image of a dirty brain had never occurred to me before I read that research article. So what happens? You sleep. At a moment in time, the spaces between the cells open up and cerebrospinal fluid pours into your brain and you get a dishwasher effect occur. Now, when you realize that if you don't get enough sleep over time, it's like a car and you don't change the oil, boom, builds up. So when you start thinking about things like Alzheimer's disease is a potential outcome of something like that, you get people's attention. When you, when you present the idea that, okay, if you don't sleep well, your cognitive functioning is a little bit fuzzy, right? So the, your IQ isn't going to be functioning as well. You get a little bit grouchy when you're sleep deprived, right? And all your emotional intelligence skills, they don't show up either. Right? So you get all of these dysfunctional things happening as a consequence of this one behavior. Is that, is that essential? Then you can expand outward and talk about other things, but you need to get people's attention as to what's most important. You don't get enough sleep, you're not gonna exercise as much. You have to do these things. The core things will create the foundation for you being as bright as you can be, and you being as emotionally in control as you want to be. And I'm sure everybody listening right now is thinking about a time when, whoops, I got a little bit too angry as a consequence of sleep deprivation for a while, because we all know those things. So my job is to remind them of the basics and then reinforce all the changes that they make. I'll be limited at times. Anything you do to make a change, especially when it comes to increasing your sleep, If you can get an extra cycle every night, you have no idea how beneficial it can be. Sleep cycles should be about 45 minutes in length.

I'm so glad you brought that one up because I think it's easy in this space to just assume that everybody knows about the glymphatic system at this point and that they need to sleep well for brain health, but not everybody knows that. Just people in this space do. So I hope that, uh, people that are out there that are listening to this might be either reminded of this if you have heard it before, or I hammer on sleep all the time because also related, you know, you said, you know, your emotional intelligence, all of those things, hunger signals are higher when you don't sleep. And so it affects your weight. It affects, you know, pretty much every area of your life. So that's an amazing first practical tip is work on your sleep. Any, any things that you've learned over the years for people that struggle to get good sleep? Do you think it's mostly that they're on their devices or doing things during the day that don't allow them to relax at night, or are there other factors?

I think most people who have trouble sleeping, well, having trouble sleeping and not getting enough sleep are not synonymous. Because you have some people who just get addicted to Instagram and all the other kinds of stuff that's available to them. We used to have a thing called self-esteem, right? Where how you felt about yourself was basically dictated by the kinds of interactions that you had with other people.

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Face to face, in one-on-ones with people, in groups, how you interacted and became an individual in the context of socially related events. Well, over time, things have changed. And this is my riff on words a little bit, so afford me a little bit of levity for the moment. Self-esteem has now morphed into selfie-esteem. The experience of oneself is now the artificial creation that exists on the internet. Now, I have very low self-esteem because I don't appear on the internet at all. So I realized, Lloyd, you now have low self-esteem. You can't interact with anybody anymore because you're not out there. But okay, what can I tell you? But that's what's happened. Self-esteem has been replaced by our experience of ourselves artificially created, the image that we have. And that has that's completely and totally detrimental to one's life, but it's addictive. People love to see things that they write out there. They love images of themselves. They love having a whole bunch of followers. That's, for me, that's a drug. And that's one of the reasons people are doing that kind of thing, which is not particularly useful to themselves and their own personal development. But once they get hooked into it, they don't, especially if they grow up with it, That's the reality that they have. So you got high school kids right now, the image that they've created outside in the world is that who they think they are. Strange places.

It really is. It really is. My husband and I have this conversation quite often because we have kids that are, you know, 20 and 17. And, uh, you know, I think a lot of their beliefs about the world and to your point themselves are highly related to social media and what they see. What they think everyone else is doing all the time when they're actually not, you know, or how much money anybody has when it's actually not, you know, it's just a very interesting concept. Well, all that being said, I think that you, so obviously people have a variety of issues to work on these days, social media just being one. What are some of the tools that you've created? Because I think you have a really interesting thing that you just brought to light. And was it maybe Psychology Today? Speaking of writing, I think you're one of those publications you're writing for, but you introduced this idea of lifestyle intelligence. I'd love to hear more about that concept and how you use it to help people.

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We've been talking about that, and it's my belief that our foundational intelligence is what we were born with. An infant never overeats or decides not to move, right? Or sleep, right? Infants know exactly what they want. If you try to continue feeding an infant, they'll push the breast away. They understand what their needs are. Those needs are slowly undermined over time by the combination of the culture at large and Homes, right? What we eat in our home. We are taught. Families are kind of like groups under an hypnotic trance where what you see and what you hear and all the experiences, after a while, it's a blur and you don't have a sense of exactly what's going on, but something is happening and you're being impacted by it. Like I, I grew up in, in, in a in the '50s and '60s, and I had no idea what appetite actually was. But my mom loved to see me eat. Loved it. It made her feel good. I'd come home from school. She said, would you like a snack? I don't know. What do you got? There's some salami in the refrigerator. Why don't you make yourself a sandwich? All right. That's 3:30. When did I eat dinner? 6:30. Was I hungry? Of course not. Did I eat?

Sure.

It was dinner time. That whole thing is a trance state. So you got the family trance, you have the cultural trance. By the time somebody graduates high school, they're hypnotized by the lifestyle that they've had and the multiple levels of it, right? You don't know what's happening. All you know is that you're going along for the ride, right? That's what we have. Most of the time until you stop, pause, and reflect and realize this is— no, this is not a good thing for me. I'm going to make some changes. By the way, one of the things that I found out along the way as I was learning how to do things is that the most powerful, interesting state of consciousness we have is that little polymer opening up to learn it in between waking and sleep. Now, we've all experienced moments of being in between where you get a dream-like thing has gone on and you say, wow, this is really strange. And the next thing you know, it's morning because you, right? Because it doesn't last very long. It may be a couple of minutes, that in-between state called the hypnagogic state. Is an incredibly powerful learning state. The problem is you're not there for very long. So how can something be structured to do that, to help you learn? Well, I came across an interesting hypnotic induction called dual induction. It's rarely used because You need two people, two hypnotists working simultaneously with one subject. When both of them speak simultaneously, you have this look on your face that goes, this is weird.

Well, I'm just trying to imagine that. Think at first, my first thought was thinking about the poor therapist trying to talk at the same time as the other one was talking. I don't know if I could do that.

Well, they scripted it. Okay. And I'm looking at this, watching this, going, what in the world is going on here?, but then I notice that while I'm listening, I'm going into this strange hypnotic state. And I said to myself, this is an interesting technique to get people into that state. Is there another way to do it without needing to bid it? And I said to myself, figure out how to do this. That's, this goes backwards quite a ways into the '80s. Where audio tape was the way people were listening to music. So I said to myself, I gotta figure out a way to put this on audio tape. So I figured the best way to do it was to use storytelling. So I figured out a way to be able to present hypnotic suggestions using my voice twice, one in each ear. So you hear stories and they're interesting fairy tales too, but you don't hear most of them because you're floating away. But that hypnagogic state, you can keep people there, there for like 15 minutes. And while they're there, they take up suggestions for changing thinking, feeling, sensing, and behavior. Did you like that little riff I did there?

Yeah, I like it a lot.

You had that look on your face that said, hey, this sounds pretty cool.

Yeah.

I can go with this.

So I'm imagining, so you were able to do this on audio, right, left. And I'm sure there's something interesting with the brain side and how this works too.

Well, I think it, Chris, the story's, Chris paused halfway through. So at one point, and I, I was lucky enough to be able to rent a microphone that was three-dimensional. Okay. So that it sounded as if people were surrounding you, not coming out of the headphones. So you had that creating the experience of the presence of others while you're listening. So it kind of made everything very dramatic, very impactful, as well as entertaining. So story, I mean, we are stories. So, I mean, we all know that. That's the most important thing people need to realize about their lives. First and foremost, we are the storytelling creatures because we are stories. From the time we were about 4 years old on, when we, our brain developed enough, we would come home and tell what we did in kindergarten, right? School. That telling of a story, that's the foundational fabric of our life. We're storytellers. That's who we are.

That's so cool. I got it. I'm going to try to go searching for this paper. Send me a link or something, because I would love to experience this. But before we—

I'll send you a bunch of stuff because I have a whole bunch of these stuff for various kinds of problems in addition to the issues that we've been talking about.

And so are any of these things that you just described— so we haven't mentioned yet that you have this really cool app that's out now. Are any of those types of things in the app, or can you just describe what the app is and how people use it? Is it audio? Is it visual? Is it habits? What's the whole deal?

First, all of these, of what I just described, the audio material is on the app. That's the secondary part of the app because that's what you, you basically use it as a stress management behavioral change initiator. All right. That does the heavy lifting. The rest of the app is me talking directly to you. Every day for 3 minutes outlining a specific piece of taking good care of yourself, why it's important, how to go about doing it. So we combine all the different levels of consciousness in the app. So everything is stimulated, allowing you to utilize all your capacities in ways that can help you make the changes you want to make.

So it sounds like really anyone can use that. With whether, because I mean, who doesn't need stress relief? Pretty much.

You can, you can test drive it for a couple of weeks and not, not cost you anything. So if you like, that's fine. If you don't like it, okay, that's fine too. But it's, it's interesting stuff.

And when you—

Style Intelligence LQ, because that's what it's all about.

Right. And when you were piloting this or testing it on people, can you share maybe some of the types of things that people were using it for and what kind of things they experienced after having used the app for a while. Because I think, you know, there's so many apps nowadays for so many different things. And I think even getting people sometimes to try something, even when it's free for a couple weeks, can be a little daunting. Oh, it's just another— like, I've downloaded a million of these, um, apps that are like kind of to-do— not to-do lists, but something like that, you know. And I get in it and I'm like, oh, it's not what I wanted at all, or it's not what I expected. So I think it'd be great if you could just share kind of what they could use it for and what they might experience if they start using it.

Well, the, the audio material is, there's a variety of areas of it. There, there is, there is a weight loss program which utilizes that. There is a self-esteem program. There's a time management program, procrastination program, breaking through creative blocks, procrastination, time management. It covers virtually all the kinds of issues that people are dealing with and want to improve. Okay. And all within the structure of that, what's called the, the dual induction storytelling format. By the way, there are actually 3 stories on every one of those tracks. The lead story about a person with a problem who meets a magical character or an interesting situation. And then from there, there's a pause. And then the two stories start up. They play for 15 minutes. Then it comes back to the lead story where you hear that the, uh, the main character has learned new thoughts, new feelings, et cetera. But it covers, there's so many different topics that are there and available all within this framework. And every, every one of these programs will relax you. So there's the stress management automatically built into this thing. I want each of the brainwave states to be stimulated. You know, beta, which is the state that we're in right now, cognitively focused, learning. Alpha, the relaxed state, the most, the meditative state that people go after. Theta, what we were just talking about before, the in-between magical learning state. And then delta, sleep, to maximize that. So we want all the brainwave states to be involved here. And I think people will find that interesting. And that took up most of my life doing this stuff. Yeah. Figuring this stuff out because I didn't, I didn't begin with, I was clueless about anything that I'm talking about now. I mean, that just evolved over time. It was nice. I learned something.

Okay.

Talk to Cheryl.

That's awesome. Well, Lloyd, this has been so wonderful and I did learn a ton today. Can you, for kind of last words, can you share with people where they can best find you? You said you're not too involved with all the social stuff, but where they can best find you on the internet and if they want download the app, and of course I'll link this in the show notes.

That's, that would be the app. I'm Talking to You, I will tell you all about it. It'll be a variation of what you and I talked about. And that's, that's pretty much it. And you can always communicate with me through, through the, through the app if there's any questions or stuff like that.

So. Awesome. And I think you also mentioned, um, before we started recording that you have a virtual practice as well as a practice in Manhattan. Maybe just a quick word on that.

I'm in my office 3 days a week and I do virtual the other 3 days. So my practice is full and I'm, yeah, I like working with people. I like talking. Actually, as you can see, I can't shut up.

So.

Amazing. Well, thank you so much. Again, I'll link to all this in the show notes. So if you have further questions or want to get in touch with Dr. Glauber, all the information will be there. So again, thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate your time.

Pleasure. I enjoyed being here. Thank you.

This has been the Heal, Nourish, Grow podcast. Again, I'm Cheryl McColgan, founder of Heal, Nourish, Grow. You can find show notes for this episode at healnourishgrowpodcast.com. If you have feedback on today's episode or questions about the content, please email us at podcast@healnourishgrow.com. We'd love to hear from you. Be sure to sign up for our email list at healnourishgrow.com and subscribe to the show with your favorite podcast player so you never miss an episode. Join us next time for more information that helps you live your best and healthiest life. Thanks for listening. Content on the Heal, Nourish, Grow podcast does not constitute medical advice. Content contained in the Heal, Nourish, Grow podcast is not intended as medical diagnosis or treatment. Neither the company nor its owner, Heal, Nourish, Grow LLC, nor any of the company's employees, agents, or guest speakers provide medical advice. The content provided on Heal, Nourish, Grow podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Please consult your medical provider with any questions about what health practices are right for you.