Weight Loss, Vegetarian Keto and Other Tools to Create a Healthier Lifestyle: 26

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Heal, Nourish, Grow podcast. Today I am joined by Jeremy Greater, and he is one of the hosts of the Fit Mess podcast, which is a really awesome show. If you haven't checked that out yet, he and his co-host do some really interesting content all around health and wellness, kind of similar to this show, but obviously with a very different voice. Two men and two very thoughtful and insightful men. So anyway, highly recommend that. But without further ado, I've read your bio. Bio, Jeremy, but I would like for you to just tell everyone a bit about yourself and how you got into the health and wellness space, and then we'll just go on from there.

Yeah, I, you know, I've been a professional broadcaster and podcaster for the better part of 20 years or so. Most of that time was in sort of commercial radio, running news programs, things like that. But in the early 2000s, when podcasting started coming around, my brother, who was always a fan of radio, wanted to do a show. So we started doing that, and that show for a long time was, it was he and I drinking, telling stupid stories, like just sharing the, the funnier parts of a very unhealthy lifestyle. That lasted way too long, uh, and then eventually I was forced to make some, some health changes, and that didn't fit with that, um, with that, uh, program anymore. So, uh, it was over the course of, of sort of changing my life through, uh, an injury that happened and, uh, some physical therapy and, and just some different ideas that, uh, I met my, my new co-host Zach. He was a couple years ahead of me on his wellness journey and, uh, he ended up sort of sharing some of what he learned along the way. And, and in the having, having the conversations we were having, we realized, you know, there, there's a lot of guys out there that could use this information that, that maybe don't know where to ask, don't know where to go, don't know who they can trust, uh, to, to be vulnerable and share the, the hard part parts of getting better. And so we decided to, to launch this podcast, The Fit Mess, and really just share that this is a struggle. This is something that there really is no destination. You can have a lot of goals along the way, but it's all about implementing new habits, changing your lifestyle, and just constantly every day doing a little bit better than you did yesterday.

Yeah, and I think you guys do a really awesome job sharing that part of it, that content, and that it isn't always easy every day. And, you know, I think this is, as you know, my focus as well, and I've been on this, you know, I've been in this for practically my whole adult life, really, um, as being, you know, into fitness, and then later down the road, a little stint with vegetarian myself for 7 years.

Yeah.

And just always trying to find what variation of fitness, diet, mental health, how they all mesh together to really kind of promote ultimate wellness.

Yeah.

Um, so it sounds like you're kind of on that very similar path. Can you share with everyone sort of what you've been most passionate about lately, any shifts that you've made. I know you guys have run some different things in your Facebook group where you have challenges, but have any of those suddenly like landed with you in a different way than they have in the past?

There, I mean, yeah, this year started really interestingly for— so last summer I moved from the United States and moved up to Canada. I left Seattle, Washington, living up in British Columbia now. And the community that we live— that we moved to has a gym. It's a free gym. It's a 5-minute walk from my front door. I hate, Ted, going to the gym. Hated it. I complained. I don't even know how many episodes I complained to Zach about. I'm just, I'm not going to do it, man. I, I'm not, I don't want to look back on my life and all the hours I spent lifting heavy things in some room by myself when I could have been living my life, right? Whatever excuse I needed to tell myself. And, uh, early this year we got the opportunity to interview Tony Horton, the, the creator of the P90X workout. Which, you know, he's, he's a god in this world, in the home fitness world. And knowing that I was going to interview the creator of P90X, I was like, well, I have to have done a couple of his workouts. Like, I don't have to do a whole program, but if I don't do a couple of his workouts and then I talk to him, like, how, how disrespectful, right? So, so like 3 days before we're interviewing him, I drag my butt over to the gym, I bring my little phone, I set it up on the barbell thing, and I just start doing whatever Tony tells me to do. And, you know, and I've done home workouts before and I've, I've enjoyed them. It's, it has worked for me in the past, but something about the way I felt that day after that first day, I was like, oh, that, that wasn't too bad. Went back the next day, did it again. I was like, God, you know, I feel kind of good. This, this isn't bad. I like him. This, I don't have to think about this. And, and that was the missing piece for me. It was like, if you go into the gym without a plan, you're hosed, right? Like, if you don't know what you're doing— I don't know what I'm doing. I walk, there's machines and heavy things, and I can sit there and guess all day, but I, I know that if I don't, uh, if I don't know where I'm going with it, I— and I don't understand the path, I won't stay on it. I'll just get frustrated and feel like, well, I'm just randomly doing things, I don't know if it's working. And so I had the chance to talk to him, you know, 3 days in and go, I'm doing your workout right now, why did I hate it for 6 months? And he was just like, your purpose sucks, man. You don't have a reason to do it. There's not some overarching thing that is driving you to want to live better and be better. And he was dead on. That was, I had no reason to do it. I had been battling some depression, this kind of underlying more than I was aware. But since then, I haven't missed a workout and it's been 2 and a half, 3 months at this point. And I feel great. And in that, in I'm not seeing drastic changes, like the scale is not changing, but my body is changing and I can feel that. And I'm getting more curious about the supplements that I'm using and wondering, are they working? So I'm, I'm getting some blood work done to make sure that I'm getting everything I need nutritionally, especially as a vegetarian, it's important to do that. So that, that was a huge shift for me was, was remembering that I, that I'm often motivated by external factors. I need, I, I need some accountability to someone else sometimes to push myself to move forward. And oftentimes, once I do that, I can create the motivation within myself to push forward on the next phase or the next step on whatever the journey is.

No, that's— first of all, that's amazing that you've been going since the beginning of the year because we're already in the middle of March when we're recording this. And, you know, people do quite often fall off pretty quickly, and I've done it a million times because I have the same thing as you. I'm not a fan of— I love fitness and working out, but I've never been a go-in-the-gym lift weights kind of person. And I really want to be, but I just, I haven't gotten there yet. So maybe I need to check out those videos and see if I get the same magic.

Yeah.

But I think that the very actionable or the very takeaway thing that you said there is that, you know, finding your purpose or finding your reason for working out or making these changes is often a big part of that. And that's what I always talk about, you know, finding your why. And it sounds very cliché, but I think it's really, you know, a huge part of being able to stay consistent with this stuff, whether it's your diet or your workout or, you know, meditation, everything basically.

Yeah, I think, you know, and, and finding your why, like you said, it is kind of cliché at this point. We've all heard it, and, and I've been saying, you know, on this show for however long, yeah, you got to find a why. I didn't have one. I've got two beautiful kids that I should want to live a long, happy life for. I've got a wife that I should want to stick around for as long as possible. But, you know, when contrasting going and spending an hour in the gym with sitting on my butt at home, which sounds more immediately rewarding, right? Like, I don't, I don't want to go do that. That sounds awful. That doesn't sound fun. But I, you know, we, we talk all the time on the show about how so many people are sitting there waiting for the motivation. I'm, I'm, I'm just trying to get motivated to go to the, to go to the gym on Monday. I'm just trying to get motivated to start a new plan. I'm just gonna, you know, on Monday I'm gonna eat better and whatever. But the motivation never magically comes. It doesn't just show up on your door one day and say, hey, let's go. I'm here. Let's go to the gym. That's what you need a friend for. That's what you need, whatever external thing that you can, can find. But, or, or maybe you need to just be your own parent and stand up and say, you need to do this now. It's not going to be fun. Sometimes times are hard and you have to push through them, but that's when the growth happens. The, you know, like Ryan Holiday says, the obstacle is the way. You have to do hard things if you want to grow and you want to get better. So that's, that's what we're all about right now, is just really trying to, to encourage people to stop waiting for motivation because it will not come. You have make it with your bare hands, and sometimes your knuckles are going to get bloody doing it, but you have to make it yourself because it's not showing up on a horse to save, to save the day.

Yeah, didn't you guys post— I mean, maybe it was— I'm pretty sure it was you, or maybe it was somebody else, but it was, it was a quote about motivation, and it was something to the effect of, you know, motivation doesn't exist, it's all about just doing it or being consistent or something like that. Was that you guys, or did I see—

Yeah, I mean, we, we've been posting a lot about that lately because that's something that we're both just so passionate about right now, is, is There's so many— like, even, even as a business, you know, our show, there's things that we're trying to do and we keep trying to perfect them and come up with the best way to present it before we launch it. And we both keep telling each other we need to just launch this sloppy product and just put it out there and let it suck and then get better at it. Like, it's okay. This whole show, like, so much of what we do, we sit around waiting for perfection, waiting for the best time, waiting for whatever perfect collision of things that's going to make life happen just right. And none of it works until you just leap. Because once you leap, then the net appears, and then you can figure it out. But that's, that's the thing, like, waiting around thinking about it, over-worrying, is not progress. That you trick yourself, and, and you can, uh, you can, you can put things off and, and what is the word I'm looking for? You can procrastinate all day long, all these things. Setting up your desk at home is gonna be just right to make your job perfect the way, or you can just dive in and do it. Right? Like, you, you can get so caught up in the procrastination tools and finding just the right app that has the right to-do list and all the things. None of it really matters until you dive in and do the work.

No, that's such great advice, and I couldn't agree with you more on the, the comment, because I used to have a yoga teacher that one of his great pieces of advice was show up and suck.

Yes.

So it's like, yes, but you have, you have to show up. Yes. The first thing, you've got to just show up.

Yeah, absolutely. I love— I'm stealing that. That's fantastic. I'm using that. You can totally—

yeah, totally new tagline grind for the fit mess. Show up and suck. I love that so much. Since we, uh, talked about your diet a little bit, and part of your journey, uh, that we— I think was in your bio— is that you lost something like 70 pounds, which is really amazing. And you kind of alluded to a time where you were maybe, uh, you know, off the rails a little too much with your fun— yes— lifestyle. Yes. So what was it that kind of made that shift for you, where you woke up one day and you're like, I need to feel better? And I know you've struggled with some mental health stuff in the past, as many of us have. Same, same here. And shared some about that before. Um, but what made that shift? And then what was it about losing the weight and then on to sort of vegetarianism a little later? How did that all tie together, and what made you decide to go that particular route?

Sure. So I've actually been a vegetarian since I was probably 20. Um, and so, you know, 25 years I've been doing this. Um, so that wasn't really anything new. That was just sort of a thing where I just, you know, I have a thing— I love animals, and I just have a hard time eating something that I could be walking in the field with or whatever, you know. It's just, it's just a weird moral thing for me. I know my body probably pays the price for it, but, but mentally I'm, I'm better with it than if I was taking another life. So that's a thing for another time. But, uh, in terms of this specific health journey, it actually started with a knee injury. It was the dumbest knee injury you've ever heard of. Literally, the Amazon guy was delivering groceries at my house at like 6 in the morning knocked on the door, which made my dog go crazy, which was going to wake up my then baby. And I was like, oh, I gotta get out of bed. Literally got out of bed and rolled my knee and couldn't get up. Like the dumbest injury, right? And went to a couple of different physical therapists and specialists and nobody really knew what it was. They were like, it's probably some nerve damage or whatever. Ended up in a physical therapist's office who was looking at my knees in general. And I was giving her, you know, my family history. My mom has had her knees replaced. And this physical therapist said, if you want to do what your mom did, keep doing what you're doing. If you don't want your knees replaced, get on a bike, get on a bike as much as possible. So that was very scary, you know, as a, as a what, 35, 36-year-old man thinking like, wow, I gotta ride a— I haven't ridden a bike since I was 6, you know, what am I gonna do? So I'm complaining to my brother about, ah, I gotta ride a bike. I don't know what to do. And he says, You just have to become that weird guy that rides his bike to work every day. You just have to own that identity. Like, just be okay with it and the rest will happen. And something about hearing that message at that time, I immediately was that guy. I was like, okay, I'm that guy. Got on Craigslist, bought a bike, and within a week was commuting 9 miles to work on my bike. And when I was riding the bike, I was terrified. Had no idea what I was doing, but there was something about being in the moment on that bike and, and knowing that if I don't pay attention to what I'm doing very closely right now, I'm going to die or get really hurt. And there was something peaceful about that. There was something about having to be in the moment for an hour every day that I just realized, I want more of this in my life. Like this, this feels good. And also just, you know, the, the physical benefits of riding a bike. That much every day was, was very beneficial. But I, I was talking to my wife and she's like, well, maybe you need to find a therapist. Maybe you need to find somebody who can help you sort of incorporate more of that into your life. And that's exactly what I did. I found a neighborhood therapist and he introduced me to meditation, which I just dove into headfirst, absolutely fell in love with it. And it became sort of the cornerstone of everything that I did after that, was just finding a way to just really get present, get really quiet, and listen to my intuition, listen to what was going on inside, and, and just follow that advice, you know, stop stop worrying what everyone else was doing and stop worrying about what was working and what wasn't, because there's so much conflicting information about everything. That the more I just got quiet, the more I was able to let conflict at work go away. I was able to be more at peace at home. The bike ride even got less scary because I just went, oh, I get to go meditate now. This is awesome. And I just got on my bike and off I went. Um, so that, that was really, that was kind of it was, was I was forced by an injury to, to take control of, of my biology a little bit. And that opened the door to what's been almost a decade now of wellness plans.

And as part of that, so I mean, at what point was the losing the weight coming in? Was that after you had injured your knee?

Yes, skipped right over that, didn't I?

No, that's okay. But that is a lot of why people listen to this and they like to hear how people did it and what finally clicked for you because now you've also kept it off for a long time. Time.

Yeah, yeah, it has stayed off. Uh, COVID brought a little bit back, but not too much. But so yes, along the way, uh, I was loving the biking and it was feeling really good and I was losing some weight, but not quickly enough for my desires and, and not in a way that felt right. And so my co-host and I, Zach, we're camping one weekend and he had, um, we, we woke up that morning and we're sitting around the campfire and he's showing me on his app all the weight that he'd lost. Just in the last couple of months. It was like 40 pounds in like, I don't know, a couple months or so. It was just ridiculous how much weight he lost quickly. And I was like, what the hell are you doing? And he told me about the keto diet. And I went, well, that sounds insane. I'm not—

that's—

I'm not doing that. That's crazy. So when you're vegetarian, when you're vegetarian, like, how do I even— that doesn't even compute. So I went, okay, I'm going to modify this in a way that works for me. And I went home and I said, I'm just going to limit myself to 100 grams of carbs a day. And just, I'm just gonna start there, see what that does. And it started to work. It was the weirdest thing, but the, the weight started to fall off and I was like, okay, I'm gonna drop it down to 50 and see what that does. Dropped it. And I was eating just tons of just like healthy fats, tons of protein. And there was this weird mental shift that happened a couple of months in, cuz I also then incorporated intermittent fasting. So I was doing 16-hour fasts. The last hour of my fast was an hour-long workout and then I would eat. Once, maybe twice a day if I was really hungry, but I was eating, you know, tons of calories because I would have two, one or two big meals. But the weirdest thing would happen is that, you know, I would be at work and it was a typical office environment where you walk by and there's always donuts or cookies or chips or something out, or somebody's always offering you some junk that they brought from home. And I kept noticing that I would walk by it and it didn't even register as food anymore. Like it might as well have been office supplies.. It's like, that's, I, I'm not, I'm not even tempted because it doesn't even register as food in my head anymore. And from there, I mean, yeah, the weight just flew off. It was, I don't even know how many months it took, just a few months. But yeah, like 70 pounds just, just melted away because of the, the fasting, the, the modified, and, and I should say I didn't eat meat, so I, I relied heavily on the processed fake, you know, chicken, the fake meat stuff. So I wouldn't do it the same way again, knowing what I know now about those things. I would if it was like, hey, you need to drop 30 pounds or you're gonna die. Like, if that's what it took. But of course, if that was— if I was in that case, I would probably consider meat anyways, just because you're desperate, why not? Um, but also, I also know that, that even Zach has had medical complications that that predate his keto that really made it a bad idea for him to do it. So knowing what I know now, I would have gone to a doctor and said, hey, let's, let's run some blood work. I want to make sure I'm doing this right. Let's come up with a plan instead of just going like, I don't know, 100 grams, let's try that, you know, and see how it works.

So yeah, then there's a great, um, resource. I have to look up the name and I can add it to the show notes, but you might just find her interesting. She is a, um, She's a doctor and she does keto, but she's vegan, I believe. I don't know if you include any other stuff, but, um, so she often gives a lot of tips on how people can accomplish that. And I think, you know, when you're, um, if people that might be interested in being vegetarian for health reasons, I don't think that's necessarily exactly true. You kind of already know some of my thoughts on that, but I think when it's for moral purposes or something like that, obviously it's what you've chosen to do, and that's amazing. But if people can obviously make it work. I mean, you made it work. Like you said, it wasn't necessarily the best way that you went about it, but I will try to find that resource for people that might be interested in something like that. And in addition, there's a book by Dr. Will Cole called Ketotarian.

Yeah, that's a great one.

He describes how to do all of that. One of the things that people might not know about that's a great one is Sacha Inchi powder, and it's like a really high protein vegetable-based powder. It's this plant, you know, that they grind up basically, and you can add it to smoothies or whatever. So people looking for more protein with a vegetarian source, that's really an excellent one.

I, I will look that up. I haven't heard of that one. That's great.

Yeah, it's a little different, but, um, I think I might have actually learned about it from her sometime in the last couple years. It got on my radar where I'd, I'd never known about it before either. Wow. Um, when you were eating, so you mentioned how I think it's such an interesting shift when people, um, kind of— because it's your blood sugar balances, so your leptin and ghrelin, your hunger hormones, aren't going wild. And like you said, you could just walk by that stuff. But something else you said, like the mental shift— did you notice, like, for me, having struggled with depression for most of my adult life, when I started eating a lot more healthier fats and just more fats in general, that really caused a huge shift in my mental health? I really had felt as good that way as I had. And I think it was maybe the lack of fats for so long that was a problem. What was your experience like with that? Did you notice any changes, or did you— I mean, have any shifts in the mental set?

The brain fog that people talk about all the time, that, that goes away, that was magical. I mean, it just lifted. I just— I definitely had way more energy every day. I was also— it's hard to say if, if all of that led to an improvement in my mental health or if it was the fact that I was really excited about something, because I was, I was biohacking, right? I was like, oh, I just learned about this, this is going to be awesome. And so when you have stuff that you're excited about, it's a little bit easier to keep the demons quiet. Um, but now, you know, I, I do still struggle with it because a lot of the stuff that was new and exciting that, that was challenging and all that has just become habit. It's just stuff I don't think about it anymore. And, you know, even sometimes doing the show, I'm like, Is anybody like, this isn't even helpful. But then I realized like, you know, like, like Mel Robbins the other day just wrote, it was just in the New York Times about taking ice baths. And I'm like, I've been doing that for years. Why is Mel Robbins in the New York Times? Like, that doesn't make sense. What? That's not new. But to, to tons of people it's new. So, so I think that, that it was a combination of the, the improvement, the, the health improvements for my body and, and the things that I was eating were making my brain work better. But just getting excited about something. Definitely sent me on a path to sort of keeping that at bay. But also, you know, meditation was huge for that because that's where you really learn to control that stuff. That's where you really learn to quiet those thoughts and, and to listen to more of who you really are instead of who your brain likes to tell you that you are because of all the messages and conditioning that you've heard your entire life.

Yeah, and one thing I like to mention whenever I teach meditation, because as you know I'm a yoga instructor, I I don't teach publicly anymore, but when I used to teach meditation, I have a psychology background and part of my graduate training was this neuropsychology kind of stuff. And so I've always been very interested about the brain in general. And one of the things is that, you know, the whole idea that you're not your thoughts, but there's something more biological to this that people don't often know if they haven't studied psychology or the brain. And that is, you know, your brain is doing what it's designed to do. It's just electrical impulses. And it creates thoughts, and they're not even anything that's real or true or that you're necessarily always in control of. And so, and obviously, as a longtime meditator, you know all of this, but I think it's important to kind of say it for other people that may have heard about meditation before, but they haven't really gotten into it, or they haven't experimented with it, that it is really a very scientifically based system that you can kind of create a change in your brain on the electrical impulse level. I mean, it's really pretty amazing. And how long— do you have a particular style of meditation that you like? Maybe you could share with people some tips on that if they're trying to get into it, or if you've found that a certain one works better for you than others.

Yeah, I'm the world's worst student of meditation because there's so many styles and ways to do it and all, and I don't know the lingo. I don't know the fancy words. What I do know is that there are a million ways to do it right, and there's no way to do it wrong. If you are paying attention to what you're doing with, with all of your intention, you're meditating. So if you are washing the dishes and you are not thinking about that you have to make your kids lunch later, or that, you know, dinner's getting cold, or if you can focus on, I'm washing this dish, this warm water feels good on my hand, what— like, if you can just be in that moment, that's— it's mindfulness. To me, that's meditation. If I'm riding my bike and trying to not die getting hit by a car because I'm in the moment. I'm meditating. So to me, it's— some people say that's not meditation. Good for them. It is for me. Anything that stops the racing thoughts and gives me control over what I'm paying attention to, that's meditating. So however you can fit that into your day, start with a minute, you know, when you're in the shower, just be grateful for the hot water that magically comes out of the wall and cleans your body every day. Like, And those are great places to start to just really any chance when you're putting laundry away, don't let the thoughts race. Don't get resentful that you're the one putting the laundry away again. Don't be resentful that you're the one taking the garbage out again. Be thankful that you have a chance to exist and to get to go outside and take the garbage out. Like just whatever you can do to just focus on what you're doing now is as close to meditation as maybe you need to get. And maybe that opens the door and suddenly you're sitting on a cushion one morning and you're doing your meditation formally. But anything that just gets the, the racing thoughts to stop is so beneficial and should be a part of your routine.

Yeah, no, and I think the way that you described it is exactly what I would say as well, um, because I don't really think there is a wrong way. And you're right though, there is a— there are a little— a lot of different types that you can do. Um, one that I, I've never done this, but, um, somebody that I was on a trip with one time was telling me about a vipassana retreat. Have you ever heard about those? Basically, it's like you're quiet, silent for 10 days.

Yeah.

I always thought that would be so interesting, especially for people like us that, you know, talk for their job practically all day. Yeah.

I haven't done anything that extreme. There was— I went to a wedding one time, and it was like a yogi family that was— they were getting— the couple was getting married. And the morning, the day of the wedding, I think the wedding was at like 11 or noon or something. But they requested complete— and we were on this, they rented the island, right? Like, we were the only ones on the island, and they requested complete silence until the ceremony. And so for like half the day, like, my wife and I couldn't talk in the tent. Like, we just— and it's so amazing when you take away the need to fill the void of silence, when you like, you don't have to talk. In fact, you shouldn't. And when you take that away, the things that you pick up, just the sounds that you would normally just blow by because you're so impressed with the thing that you need to say. Uh, it's just, it's just incredible. So there's definitely benefits to that. Um, one, one style that I do, uh, that I can think of that's like a formal style is like a loving-kindness meditation. And it's when you focus on just, just expressing love to another person. And usually it starts with something harmless like, you know, your dog or your kid or someone who you easily love. And just, you just picture thinking about that person and wishing good things for them and loving things for them. And then trying to graduate that to people that maybe you don't know as well, and then graduate it to people that maybe you're angry with, or you have some bitter, you know, maybe you have dad issues and your dad pisses you off, whatever. That's, that's sort of the goal, is to, to get to a place of, of teaching yourself compassion through meditation and, and loving even your enemies as yourself through this practice. And it's, that's a little bit more advanced for someone who maybe hasn't done it before. But, but that's one style that I do use occasionally.

Wow. And wouldn't it be wonderful to have a lot more of that in the world right at this particular moment?

Yes, yes, definitely.

It would be difficult to do that kind of meditation on the specific person I think of right at the moment.

But yeah, it's, it's hard. I mean, it physically can be painful to, to try and put those walls down and to let those feelings go when, when there's someone that you have that deep resentment for or something. But it's a, it's a great way of healing and trying to let that stuff go.

No, absolutely. Well, to go back to, um, I was just wanting to kind of revisit the mental health piece because part of my goal for the podcast is giving people some concrete ideas, some actionable ideas. And I think we've already had some awesome ones here. The meditation, talking about just, you know, not looking for motivation, just become that person who does the thing and do the thing and Worry about mo— don't even worry about motivation. Just do it. Right. Like the whole Nike slogan.

Yeah.

Um, any other thoughts that you have from your personal experience, just things that have helped, um, with mental health? Because I do think this is a, um, a topic that people are particularly struggling with right now, given that it's 2022 and we're now officially 2 years into this whole crazy pandemic situation. And, uh, I, you know, I just, I've definitely heard from a lot of people and I've felt it myself where it's just this low-level constant stress that is very taxing mentally. So given your past experience with dealing with this on and off through the years, anything that you can give to people for concrete advice to try outside of meditation or outside of— I think you mentioned therapy, that's always a good one, but anything else you can think of?

I mean, a couple things come to mind. One is the cliché, you know, make time for yourself. A lot of times when I do get depressed, it stems from overwhelm. I'm taking on too much, or there's just too much going on. I don't deal with it. I don't, I don't take time to take care of myself. And then it boils over into full-blown depression. And then I'm carrying that around for a week. So whatever, when you're feeling overwhelmed, take those breaks, whatever, like go watch whatever movie you love, like go for a walk, go like, just whatever self-care is for you. Don't let that go, because that's a big piece of it. The other thing, and this is, this was new to me, maybe it's not to your audience, but I was talking to one of the, one of the women that we interviewed on the show. We were talking about depression and she, she works with EFT, the Emotional Freedom Technique, of the tapping. And it was so interesting, the interview that we did with her, because we were talking about tapping and in the middle of it there was this throwaway story that she just kind of glossed over really quickly about one of her clients, how they, they realized that her depression stemmed from a childhood thing that was some unmet need. And that once she realized, oh, I just, I'm not getting enough love from my partner, I'm not, whatever, whatever the, the unmet need was, once they identified it, she was cured, like never had another episode of depression. And there was something about that. And I talked to her about it later because I was so fascinated about the idea. Because when she said that, it took me to my childhood. Of, you know, there was alcoholism in the house. So there was a lot of just stay quiet, stay out of the way, don't be seen, don't cause a problem, all this stuff. And so I've carried that with me my entire life of stay out of the way, don't be seen, don't be a problem for other people, which ultimately means your needs are not being met because you're not telling anyone what your needs are. You maybe don't even know what they are because you're so, you're in such a fear, you know, flight state constantly. That, that, that builds up into overwhelm and fully into depression. And so there have been times since I talked to her about that, and it's not, it's not 100%, but many times when I start feeling overwhelmed, and I'll realize it's because I've told the kids 16 times to put their shoes on because we need to go. It's because we're late and we have to get out the door and nobody's hearing me say, guys, this is how time works. We need to leave. And it's just when I, when I don't feel heard, when I don't feel like what I'm doing matters to the people that matter to me. Then that is when I start to backslide. And, and what happens is when I then get depressed, suddenly everyone notices the silence and, and the heaviness. And so they swoop in and they're like, what, are you okay? What's going on? Now suddenly I'm getting attention, which is what the unmet need was. And it's not, it's not a logical like, oh, to get, to get attention, I'm going to act all depressed. There's a survival mechanism in my brain that says to get what you need, we're going to shut down now. And so then I shut down, and then the attention comes, and then there becomes this weird gray area where I realize I'm getting what I need, so I should be happy. But if I get happy again, then all of a sudden nobody notices me again, and so I better stay here. And again, this is not a logical— like, I'm not playing games. It's just this thing that my brain's doing where it's like, you, you feel better so you can go there, but it's only because you're here that you feel better, so stay right here. And so the more I've become aware of that, the more I can realize I have a need that's not being met. And if I can communicate, I need to be treated this way, I need to be heard, I need to be seen, whatever. Typically, that can resolve it much more quickly than, you know, what I would normally do, which is go hide in a dark room for 3 days until it passes.

That's real— excuse me— that's really interesting. And I think that dealing with past trauma is a huge component of a lot of people's depression. And certainly, I would imagine that, you know, part of the reason that this is more prevalent during the pandemic is because it's, it's recreating old patterns, it's causing you because of the stress to revert to whatever that poor coping mechanism you develop as a child. Yeah, you go back to that. It's like, it's just so ingrained in that all this stress of this particular time that we're living in, I think is is causing a lot of that to come to the surface for people, just because they're trying, they're in survival mode, as you said, you kind of use that phrase. And, and it's, it's what our brain knows. And so it's interesting to try to like dig a little deeper and see if you can find that. But if you go back to the, you did mention this, this was kind of like, as an aside almost to the, because you got that nugget of wisdom. But what about the tapping thing? Have you tried?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I've done a few sessions. And it's, it's pretty remarkable how The one I did was on Zoom, so you would think it— oh, this is not going to work at all. And I went into it thinking this is going to be silly. And yeah, you start tapping on your head, and you're tapping on your eyebrow, and then you're tapping under your nose, and then on your chin, and on your shoulder, your collarbone, and then your sides. And the whole time you're reciting— you're basically repeating what the practitioner is telling you what to say. And you do it for a few rounds, and It's amazing how— I don't know what it is about the, the electrical impulses that it sends or connects or whatever it is, but I did. I transported back to being a kid in a vulnerable state and, and was able to sort of let some of that stuff go. And I've done that through meditation and other things before, so it wasn't completely like a new experience. But the fact that I did it through this, you know, somewhat— it felt kind of hokey to do it right? But if it works, that's— I always come— that's what it always comes back to for me. If it works for you, do it. So if you haven't tried tapping and you have some trauma that you're carrying around and some baggage, give it a shot. Why not? You know, if it can help you, absolutely give it a chance.

Yeah, no, now I'm gonna have to— I haven't listened to that episode yet, so I'm gonna have to go and see what I can find out about that. Um, so before we go, can you— so we mentioned your podcast, and I know that you guys have been You mentioned this as part of the interview that you've kind of been reworking it in your mind or trying to figure out some new things to do with it. Can you, is there anything that you can share with the audience about if you're changing something or any just exciting thing that you're working on at the moment?

We, I mean, we are trying to launch a, either a live coaching or like a video series because a lot of the people that we've talked to are in time zones all over the world. So meeting with us at 11 AM Pacific time or whatever it is would not work. Work. Um, but we just, we want to get a little bit more hands-on with, with our listeners because we hear from them a lot that they, uh, they appreciate our perspective, especially when it comes to things like mindset and, and having those things where you can make that shift. Because you can tell yourself for 10, 20 years that you're going to get this under control and you're going to go to the gym and whatever, but, um, but we, we hear from people that they want to, to learn a little bit more, uh, hands-on from us, how we get to the gym every morning, you know, like things that again that seem simple, but when you, when you have a hard time doing them, learning from someone else who does it every day, even if they're only a couple steps ahead of you, can be really beneficial. So we will be launching, uh, I believe in the next couple of weeks if we really get motivated, uh, either a live course. Yeah, exactly. We got to create the motivation. I'm creating it by, by making the landing pages and all the things, But, uh, but that should be available, uh, very shortly if it's not already.

Awesome. And, uh, of course this will all be in the show notes, but can you talk about where people most easily find you? I love your Facebook group, so that link—

oh, that's very nice—

show notes.

You're the one. No, I'm just kidding.

But, uh, can you share what your most active social channels are and how people can most easily reach you?

Yeah, I mean, definitely our Facebook group is, is a great place to go. Um, you can find, you can find all the links on our website, thefitmess.com, uh, in all the show notes and everything. You're going to find the links to the, to the groups and all the things that we do and all of our sponsors and all that. So thefitmess.com is going to be the best place to find us.

Okay, awesome. Well, I look forward to your new, uh, coaching formats. And, and people are agreeing to be recorded for that, is that true?

No, no, no, we haven't, we haven't gotten to that point. We just—

separate.

Yeah, yeah, we're not, not recorded, but just, just, you know, words of wisdom from a couple of guys who've, uh, maybe taken a couple more steps than you.

Yeah. Interesting. Well, I think it would be if somebody would agree to share their episodes. It'd kind of be interesting to put that out there so people could hear.

Totally.

Kind of live and how it goes. But I'll be listening for that as well, should everybody that's listening to this interview. And I just want to thank you for sharing all your wonderful experience and insights and tips for people to get healthier. Any final words or things you forgot to talk about?

Thank you so much for the opportunity. It's always fun talking to you. And keep up the great work yourself.

Thanks. Been great to have you. Thanks.