#111: THIS Is Your Sign To START Now And Figure Out the Details LATER with Ellen Bennett

Teach people to just get out of their own way and begin, like, stop overthinking it. Stop waiting for a magic bullet to arrive or some perfect opportunity or the day that someone is going to call you and say, this is your moment. It's like your moment is every day that you wake up, that is your moment. That is your second in the morning when you are like, all right, I am alive again. Another day, what are you going to do about it? That is the moment.

Come on this journey with me each week when you join me, you're going to chase down our goals, overcome adversity, and set you up for a better tomorrow.

I'm ready for my closeup.

Hi, and welcome back. We are here today with Ellen Bennett. She's the founder and CEO of Headley and Bennett, an apparel company that specializes in premium chef aprons. And we're going to get in the backstory on that one. Since starting the business in her LA home, Ellen has grown HMB into a multimillion dollar business. Cha Ching H and B has collaborated with Vans and Don Julio, among others, and creates uniforms with for 4,000 restaurants and coffee shops all over the U.S. ellen, so excited for you to be here today.

Thanks for having me. Very pumped. Very exciting. Today is pub day, so it's an exciting day.

It is an exciting day. So I'm super interested. I love your backstory. I love where you come from and how you launched your entire company. If you could give us a little bit so everyone listening can understand that you weren't born wealthy with a silver spoon in your mouth.

Definitely not. And I got to say, I feel like it's one of the best things that I could have ever asked for was not having every opportunity because it made me fight for everything I wanted and really earn it. And that's a beautiful thing. So I started my company when I was 24. I worked at a two Michelin star restaurant here in LA. I hated our uniforms and it was wild to me that we were making the most beautiful food. I don't know if you've ever been to Providence here, but it is spectacular. You don't spend less than 6, $700 a person. It is a meal to remember for the rest of your life. Yet we all looked and felt kind of like shit in the kitchen and I wanted to change that. And it was just this simple idea that I wanted to make a better uniform and a better apron that kicked off my company, Hadley and Bennett. I always say that because it starts with an idea. It starts with a little A little seed of inception, and then a lot of action after that. But that's really where it begins.

So many entrepreneurs are all about solving a problem that I see in the world, which is obviously one that you saw. There was an issue. Right. The clothing you were all wearing was not living up to the experience people were having in the restaurant that you're representing. Makes great sense. I'm sure other people had noticed it before, but, Ellen, you did something about it. So what is that first step step that you moved to when you said, okay, this is it. I've got the idea. I'm going to tell the chef, I've got a company. I'm moving forward with something. But how do you actually take that step to make something happen?

A lot of it is mental. You have to just be okay with not knowing where you're going to land and being totally okay with being uncomfortable. And once you get over that hurdle and you realize, like, wait a second, I was able to survive that, and I think I can do it one more time. You. You start to build this sense of confidence that just gives you the wind to kind of keep going. And so I had had a lot of circumstances in my life that led me to feeling this many, many times. Like, when my parents got divorced when I was nine years old, I was like, all right, how do I help my mom when I, you know, was basically raising my dog, my sister, who's like my daughter for, you know, my whole youth, while all of my friends were going to the mall? Like, it was just a different life. And all of those challenges just allowed me confidence because my mom was like, yeah, of course you're going to help with that. Like, that's just. That's what we do. We don't think twice about it. And that by the time I had this opportunity to start my company, it was just, like, one more thing that I was going to say yes to and show up and figure it out and not know exactly how to do it. But I was going to learn, and I was going to try. And that is the thing that is the entire purpose of this whole book is teach people to just get out of their own way and begin, like, stop overthinking it. Stop waiting for a magic bullet to arrive or some perfect opportunity or the day that someone is going to call you and say, this is your moment. It's like your moment is every day that you wake up, that is your moment. That is your second in the morning when you're like, all right, I'm alive again. Another day, what are you going to do about it? That's the moment.

So that's so confusing to me. So as a new entrepreneur, I'm only three years in my entrepreneurial journey. Like many of the people listening, a lot of people listening to haven't made the leap yet, but they want to. And I was just talking to a good friend of mine the other day who's beyond successful. She's six years in, multimillionaire, very successful, just like you. And she said, heather, I'll never forget the day my book hit was the day Rush Limbo backed it on air for millions of people and said, everyone, go get this book right now. She said, my book sold out across the country. And she said, and I've never looked back. I explained, exploded that day. So I'm always fixated on when is that day coming, when is that tipping point? And your message is that tipping point might not come, so just keep going.

You know, that's a very surreal and special circumstance that your friend had. And a lot of people see that and think, like, oh, that's my only route to success. And this book is for everyone else. Everyone else that hasn't had that moment. It's like, how are you going to stop waiting for those moments to come and just start creating those moments for yourself? And I bet you when she started the book, that was her own dream. First details, later moment, right? She's like, screw it, I'm going to write a book. I'm doing this. And that led her to get to that moment, and that's the message, is like, begin the journey. Yes, you will have incredible moments happen along the way, but you have to start the ball, you have to move it forward and get it rolling. And for me, if I hadn't just said, yes, I'm going to do this first order for this one chef that asked me before I even had sewers or a business plan. If I hadn't taken that leap, Hadley and Bennett wouldn't exist today. And nothing about it was perfect. It was actually quite messy and quite complicated. And I said yes to an order when I didn't have anything, but I landed it and I did it. And then I kept doing it. And now the company has evolved so much, and, yes, it's grown tremendously. But it started with that tiny first step of saying, yes, I can do it.

Oh, I love that you just shared that you took the order when you didn't have a company or an operation set up. Just knowing, I'm going to figure it out, and I'M teaching a class at Harvard right now. Yesterday, when class ended, one of my students called me and said, heather, how do I apply to teach at Harvard? And I said, oh, I had no idea you had this passion for academia. And tell me about it. She said, oh, no, I don't. However, I want to start my own company. And I figured if I could check off that I taught at Harvard, it would give me credibility. And I said to her, pump the brakes. Instead of trying to become a professor to get permission, why not test your concept to market? Why don't you call a few different people who would be potential buyers, test your concept, and see what happens? And she said to me, alan, you're going to love this. Well, what if they want to actually buy my service? And I said, well, how long would it take for you to get the service up and running? She said, two weeks. I said, well, then there's your answer. You're going to make it happen.

It's right in front of you.

Yep.

And that very moment where she's like, well, what if they actually want it? It's like, that's the moment that is your own moment that you created, similar to the guy announcing it on television. You just made that moment in your day. And. And for me, when I had decided I wanted to have the apron company a couple weeks later, my chef was like, hey, there's a girl. She's going to make us aprons. Do you want to buy one? And I was like, I blurted out, chef, I have an apron company. I will make you those aprons. Like, I created that moment for myself. And so it's just a reminder to all of us, like, you are in the driver's seat of your life, and every day you wake up, where are you going to drive to today? And that is the message. Just start driving. Just start showing up, start trying things, start learning, start failing. And the failures are the best part. You learn so much, and I've had so much failure, and the entire book is packed with my failures. But I did that because people forget that success comes with the failure. And so it's a very polite reminder that. That you don't get one without the other.

Well, now that you've mentioned it, Dream first, Details later is your first book, which I'm so excited, showcases your high moments, your low moments, all of the challenges, and outlines the fact that getting ahead and creating success can be messy, but it's about getting started. What drove you not only to launch this massive and amazing company where you're giving back and doing so much good in the world. But then to pivot and write a book.

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To give something to the world that was honest and genuine to my journey. And I had not found any business books when I first started that I could relate to, that I could connect to. Everything was very much kind of whitewashed a little bit into this logic of and then you do this and then you sell it for $100 million and then you're successful. And I was like, well, how do you hire your first employee? Where do you go? How do you get a business license? Like all the basic square zero. Nobody was talking about that or it was very much like girl power. And I was like, what about like human power? Like, what about just people learning to show up in the world? Why can't there be something like that? So I decided to write that book. It's also extremely colorful and business is extremely colorful. So I was why write a black and white book? This is a book that is colorful, honest and raw. And it's telling you my journey of starting something out of literally nothing, $300 and building it into a multimillion dollar company that's evolved so much along the way. And I'm so proud of that evolution. But if I hadn't begun, we wouldn't be here today. So it's just like you got to get it started and don't be afraid to pivot along the way.

So what do you say to people that want to get started but don't know how they feel?

So.

So it's about starting to show up in some area, whatever it is that you want to do. If you want to become an architect, go intern at an architecture firm. If you want to be an artist, carve out time on your calendar where you're dedicating space to that. You just have to put time aside and show up in some way that gets you closer to that goal, whatever it is, big or small, but like baby steps to move it forward. And what you're really doing secretly is you're building your own confidence so that when that opportunity does come along, you can actually say, yes, I know how to do that, or, yes, I'm going to show up in this way. And I had many, many funny jobs before I started Headley and Bennett. Like, I was the lottery announcer in Mexico City on television for, like, millions of viewers every day. And that was one of my many weird jobs to get myself through culinary school. But because I said yes to that, because I would show up, I just felt this. Yes, I can do it when other funny, interesting, unique situations came my way. So don't be afraid to show up and try things and do funny jobs and not have a perfect, straight path. Like, the straight path. Yes, we see it on tv, we see it in movies, but it's just not the honest to goodness path that everybody takes. There's a lot more people that have a windy road, and the windy road is a good road. So don't feel bad or think that it's a bad road to be on.

Oh, my gosh, I love that you shared that. I led that whole linear path back in corporate America, and I thought that was the way it was supposed to be, that it was clear and well lit and straight, until I got fired unexpectedly and was thrust into the windy path. And I'll tell you, Ellen, it's so scary when you think it's supposed to be one way and you get thrown into the other way.

Hundred million percent. And I'm trying to normalize that. The windy path is actually where you learn the most. It's where you make the biggest impact. It's where you become creative and you be. You're resourceful and you think outside the box. Because if you're on a straight path, that path has already been taken. You're just kind of following everyone else. Like, do you want to be like everyone else, or do you want to show up in the world and, like, make a difference? That is what it's about. It's about making that magic happen. And so I really, really, really am excited for people to pick this up and be like, damn, I can do this too. And it's totally okay, and it's gonna be messy, and I'm here for it.

Oh, it's so good and so true. So tell me about the confidence belt and doing the things that scare you that you teach in the book.

Yes. There's a whole section on it where I talk about confidence is like a savings account. And every time you show up to do Something that is a little bit out of your comfort zone. You're investing in that account, and you're accumulating this feeling, and it builds up over time, and you sort of, like, stretch your mental muscles to be willing to do this one thing. It's a little scary, and then you do it anyway. Right. A long time ago, I decided I wanted to be a runner, and then I signed up for the New York Marathon, and I got in and I was like, holy shit, I just got into the New York Marathon. I guess I have to train now. And then I started training, and I did the marathon, and it was an incredible and terribly hard experience, but I showed up and I did it.

It.

And so it sometimes takes a big decision or a big moment or a big. This is scary, but I'm doing it anyway. And then you start working towards it, and turns out you're stronger than you think you are. So you get to the other side, and then you do bigger and crazier and better things. So you just gotta, like, put yourself in situations where you're not just in the safety of your own little home and world and, like, branch out and make that. Talk to somebody that you wouldn't have talked to, call somebody that you're afraid to talk to, email somebody that you want to work for, like, do those things that make you nervous, and then keep doing it again, and if you fail, keep going anyway.

So one of the things that I noticed that you do just even in that description that you just gave us, is you hold yourself accountable at a really high level, which, for me, that's one of the ways that I'm able to push myself into fear. So you told the chef that you could take the order on the aprons when you didn't have the apron company. You signed up for the New York Marathon when you hadn't trained for it yet. You hold yourself accountable before there's proof that you can actually do it.

Yeah. And that's been my way of just committing. It's like a commitment. You make a mental decision, and then you make a physical decision in some capacity, something that's going to thrust you there. And then you got to.

You got to do it.

You got to show up. What are you going to not do it? Like, that's. That is not cool. You got to show up and do it. So it is a beautiful thing, but that is truly how I have created all these notches on my confidence belt. When I turned 18, I moved to Mexico City by myself. I had no family. I didn't know anybody. I went for two months. I stayed for four years. It was the wildest experience I had ever had. But I learned so much about being resourceful, sustainable on my own two feet, and how to just get out in the world and make something out of nothing. And this was yet another notch on the confidence belt. Being the lottery announcer on television for Mexico. Notch on the confidence belt. So it's just do those things that scare you, and it will lead you to bigger things that you are actually wanting to do something you're passionate about, that dream or that goal, whatever that is.

Oh, it's so good. I agree so much that you've got to start small and building that strength to go on to those next bigger things. It doesn't come from 0 to 100. It definitely goes 0 to 10 first.

Yeah, exactly. And I break all those little moments down because people just think of the giant moment, the giant success. They're like. And then they were on Forbes magazine, and you're like, do you know all of the failed businesses that they had, the amount of pain and anguish, the loans that they had to take out, the things that they had to do that led to that moment? And so this is the beginning of the journey. This. I'm 33 years old. I started heavily on it when I was 24 and a half. So it's. It's the first chapters of business and how to get it there so that you can then one day be on the COVID of Forbes or be a successful person. But all of this is imperative to get to there. You need to take these first steps to make that leap. It's not some, like, easy path where it just, like, lands.

You are wise beyond your years. I wish I had this wisdom earlier. Okay, how do you convince powerful, skeptical people to take a chance on you in business?

I have a little section in the book called Humble Enthusiasm, and it's my approach to people. And so it's a combination of being excited about what you're doing and willing to learn at the same time. Because when you are sharing something with people, but you're also willing to hear their thoughts on it and hear what they have to say. It's a collaboration. It's no longer you giving somebody a speech about how great your new product is and how fancy you are and how cool you are, which just is annoying. You don't like that, right? You don't want to feel like you're a transaction, someone's selling you something, so you approach it from a very humble and enthusiastic place. And Then you ask them for their opinion and get their two cents and get their input and next thing you know, the two of you are creating something together. And that is so special in a It's a very genuine way to approach people versus when you're walking through a mall and someone's like, hey, let me like straighten your hair. Whatever. Look at this hair straightener. Like, let me show you this hair straightener. You're like, I don't want to talk to you. That feels imposed, right? It feels like someone's forcing it on you.

You're not.

They haven't asked you if you can talk about it. They're just like forcing it. So it's honest, it's genuine. It start with people as a human being and then later if that thing that you're selling works for them, great. But if it doesn't, you made a friend and you made somebody that is excited about what you're doing. Therefore you turn them from just a stranger to now an acquaintance and a friend of yours. And maybe at some point they'll buy it from you if it's the right product for them.

So, so many people will hear that advice and then say, but where do I get started? I'm too young, no one's taking me seriously. How do I get a hold of these people? How do I even get that ball.

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Yeah, so for me, I mean I was 24, I was making $10 an hour as a line cook. I had literally nobody to turn to and what I did was just start showing up in places where I knew other chefs would be. So I would tell my chef, I will go to this food event and work it for free if you let me come with you. And he's like, okay, great. Yeah, I need extra hands for this food event. And at the event, I would be like, hey, there's a chef cooking next to me, right? I'm like, oh, I work at Providence. I make aprons now. I'd love your opinion, like, on what? You know, I'm still working on them, trying to figure them out. Are you around? Would love to show you, like, what they look like. And they'd be like, sure, come by the restaurant. And then I would show up. And so it was these little moments like that where people would give me a tiny little opening. The door would, like, crack open, and I would show up and be like, okay, this is the materials that I'm thinking of using. Here's the fabrics. What do you think? And they're like, I love this. Actually, I'd love some for myself too. And they give me an order, and I would take a deposit. I'd make the aprons, I'd come back, I'd take pictures with them, put it on Instagram. And so then other chefs were like, that girl is making some really cool stuff, and it's beautiful, and it's well made. It's made here in la. She's using Japanese denim. Well, that's interesting. Okay, maybe I want to check it out. And so it was this sort of, like, ripple effect. And I got Martha Stewart and David Chang and these famous, wonderful people to start buying my gear too, because they heard about it, and next thing you know, it was like other people were hearing about it. And so it just. You convince a few that really believe in your stuff, and then other people see that and they start believing it too. But you have to put it into the world. Like, just because you see it in your head doesn't mean other people see it.

Right?

And so it took a lot of time where I was just my own cheerleader, being like, this works. I know this works because it's a great product, and it's helping people. I know it's going to help them. So just keep showing it to people until it resonates with the audience, and then, boom, you're off to the races.

Before you had the proof that it was going to work, you took the risk of putting yourself out there. You took the risk of putting it out on social media. A lot of people are fearful that, what if I put it out there and it fails? How were you able to overcome that fear?

I had felt it one time with my chef, who had said, okay, we'll give you this order. And that feeling I got inside Was like deep passion. And I just thought, holy cow. Like this is something, something just happened and I can't ignore it. I can't not keep feeling this feeling. And I was hooked. I just like, it felt exhilarating to have somebody need something that you're creating and I wanted to do more of it. So I just kept finding another chef and another chef and it was very old school and like street by street and chef by chef and person by person. This is not. Again, this is not an overnight success. This is eight years that I've been working at it. And now the company's much more evolved from that point. But at the beginning was me, myself and an idea. So that is the key. It's just like, do you have the resilience and the willingness to continue to show up even when people say I don't like it or no? Or are you willing to listen to what they don't like so you can modify it and make it better?

Wow. I really connect with what you said around that feeling, that deep seated passion or 10 years ago, I'll never forget. I took the biggest stage of my life, was not my job. It was something I had to do for my job at the time. And when I got off that stage, I felt like magic, like I was flying. I had never. And I remember pausing and saying, I've never felt like this in my whole life. Okay, now get back to work. I tuned it out where you embraced. I thought, well, that was special. Okay, put that away. Go back to your regular job. Fast forward to getting fired three years ago and then stepping into speaking all the time and getting this opportunity. It's so weird to me, Ellen, how we're not raised or most of us aren't raised with this idea of find the magic, find the passion, and then build everything around that. So many of us, myself included, follow the line that somebody else cut before you. Whether it's magic or not, just follow it. How do you get people to understand or what is it different about your book that's going to help them to understand they can move to the magic.

I wrote the book in a way that it's very much a giant story story and I am feeding you broccoli all along the way and you don't even realize it. And so through my own challenges and very honest examples of failures, I give people the kind of example that this is how I learned that moment. And there's a big moment in the book where I talk about how I almost lost our factory here in LA. It's 16,000 square feet, giant building. And I literally almost lost it because the person we were working with on the building, they were our co signer. They were not paying the rent. We would pay them the rent, they would pay the rent to the landlord. And what do you know? We got served an eviction notice at the beginning of Q4, which, as you can imagine, Q4 is the craziest time of the year. Quarter four, it's Christmas holidays, et cetera. And we had to come up with all of this money that we didn't have to pay the first month of the last month and all the back months that this person hadn't been giving our checks to. And it was a disaster. And we didn't have that money. And we had 30 days. We had a 30 day eviction notice from a lawyer. So it was very real and we figured it out. And so to walk people through those instances, instead of just being like, wow, she's so successful. Look at how great her entire life is. It just makes it real, it makes it approachable. And that's what we need. Because then it normalizes when you fail. And it makes it okay when you have something bad happen to you because you're like, all right, that's part of the journey. They're not bumps in the road, they are the road, period.

Oh, I love that. And it's so freaking true. Thank you for normalizing failure, because we are all feeling it. You also share a concept that a lot of people aren't familiar with that I wanted you to explain a little bit about. Bartering for opportunities is not something that is spoken about much.

No, it's very true. So because I was raised by a single Mexican mama, we didn't have a ton of resources. I just kind of learned to make do with what you had and focus on that, not focus on what I didn't have. So at the beginning of Hedley and Bennett, I actually looked at my life and I kind of made a list like, what do I have? What are my skills? What can I offer to people? And I thought, well, I can cook really well and I work at some really fantastic restaurants. I don't have a lot of money, but I can offer that. So for my first pattern, which I needed to make the first apron, I bartered a meal with a friend. And I was like, hey, I will come over and I will make you a really fantastic meal, but I need you to make me this pattern. Deal. And he was like, yeah, deal. That was very simple. It was me taking inventory of a skill and then using it to get this thing that I needed. So not everything is money based. You can exchange other things that you have with other people. People have, you know, they're graphic designers, they have their own skill sets. So figure out what it is that you have that somebody else needs and offer that service to them versus just demanding help from people. I don't like to just ask for help. I want to offer something for them for that time and then they're more willing to help you.

I love that solution because so many people get stuck in the I don't have money, I can't afford to pay for that. I can't hire that service. And this is such a better way of looking. Everyone has some kind of a talent or something in your own home that you could offer to somebody. Right. It's just taking a deeper, bigger picture look than just the paycheck.

Yep. It's not just cash. That's the straight path. Right. The curvy windy I'm going off roading is the okay, I've got no resources. What am I going to do? All right, I can cook. I'll cook for them. Perfect. Let me cook for you. Great. Okay. Are you a photographer? Do you have a camera? Like, what are those things that you can offer people to get that service? Experience is a beautiful gift that people can get that they are very quick to think, no, first I need a paycheck. I worked for free at the restaurant that I got a job at, and if I hadn't said, no, I'll keep coming for free. They wouldn't have given me that opportunity because they wouldn't have seen how I worked and my work ethic and all of that. So just think about the long run when you're making decisions about where you're going to work or spend your time. Like the time you spend places and the experience you gain is invaluable. So don't worry about if you're going to make making a ton of money or not making a ton of money. There's a time and a place to make money. But when you're trying to learn, don't try and do both at the same time.

Always.

You might be giving up good opportunity.

So I'm so curious where your windy road is going to take you next year.

Oh, my goodness. Well, you know, last year was a really wild pivot. We did a. I don't know if you knew about this, but we did a huge pivot into face masks the day of the shutdown in LA and ended up Making a buy one, donate one model because we couldn't afford to do it ourselves. And we have made half a million masks to date that we donated and a million masks that we sold on our website. So it was completely radical. We had never done anything like it, but we did it for our community. And we're so. I'm so proud of our team for having shown up in that way, but that was a pivot, and this is already on a very windy road, Right? And because of that shift, our business is now 80% direct to consumers, so we actually outfit home cooks very much now. That's our core audience. As compared to pre pandemic, it was restaurants. We were making custom gear for restaurants, and now we outfit home cooks. All the shows on Food Network, Top Chef, et cetera. It's a whole different life. And so it's just, like, willing to embrace these bumps that come from life. They come from yourself, they come from a pandemic, and just adapt. Adapt with the change.

Wow, that's such a great example of doing the next right thing. You were doing good work helping others, and because of that, you completely, completely changed and grew your business model in one of the most uncertain and awful times that any of us have experienced. Kudos to you and so proud of you and your team for making that pivot. That's amazing.

Thank you. It was wild.

It was wild.

It very much felt like when I was telling my chef, I'll make the aprons, it was like, I'll make the face masks. Like, what? Okay.

But the interesting thing is you had been there before. You had raised your hand to the chef not having the company, and that's why you felt fine to raise your hand again and say, I can do the face mask.

That's right. Confidence belt. I had that savings account packed with experiences and failures and moments of challenge. So when the pandemic hit, I didn't get paralyzed or freak out. I was just like, all right, how are we going to get through this? Like, let's figure this out.

Well, Ellen, obviously, everybody wants to get dream first, details later, because they want their confidence belt packed to where can they find the book?

They can get the book at any bookstore across the country, online, Barnes and Noble, and on our website, headleyandbennet.com, where we have signed copies on there too. So definitely check it out. And for everybody that wants to follow along on the adventures, they can go to Ellen Marie Bennett on Instagram, and Headley and Bennett. Highly entertaining, highly fun, and you'll get to see my pet pig, Oliver, who's gigantic and ridiculous and lives at our house. So, you know, business and the pig, it's quite the combo.

Well, I'll tell you, I'm following along for the windy road because it is. Not only is it exciting and educational, but it's inspiring and super. Grateful for all the great work that you're doing. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Heather. Thanks for having me.

Thanks so much. And keep up the great work, Ellen.

Thank you, guys.

I decided to change that dynamic. I couldn't be more excited for what you're going to hear. Start learning and growing. Inevitably something will happen. No one succeeds alone. You don't stop and look around once in a while. You could miss it. Come on this journey with me.