#117: The #1 Piece Of Business Advice To Achieve Success with Steve Olsher

What I had been doing up into that point, to be completely honest, was of benefit to me and those closest to me, but really nobody else. That's all I knew. And I didn't know what the next step should be. But what I felt in that moment was, you know what? I've learned a lot at that point. I'd been an entrepreneur for the better part of 20 odd years or so. So what I felt in my heart was the next right step was to just start writing and start writing down different lessons that I had learned, different strategies that I felt could be of benefit to others and help others avoid a lot of the and tribulation and brain damage that I had to endure to get to that point.

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Hi and welcome back. I'm so excited for you to meet my guest today. It is Steve Olsher. He is known as the world's foremost reinvention expert. My kind of people famous for helping individuals and corporations become exceptionally clear on their what that is the one thing they were created to do. His practical no holds barred approach to life and business propels his clients towards achieving massive profitability. That's why he's here. While also cultivating a life of purpose, conviction and contribution. A 30 plus year entrepreneur. You got a little bit of time in on me. Steve is a founder and editor in chief of Podcast magazine, original chairman and founder of Liquor.com, yes again, my people online pioneer who launched on CompuServe's electronic mall in 1993. New York Times bestselling author of what Is yous what? Discover the one amazing thing you were born to do. I can't even. You have so many accolades, it's crazy. Steve, thank you for making time and being here today.

You're welcome. Yeah, we'd spend the whole time just, I guess chatting about the bio. So let's just get into it, right?

Well, you know what I want to get into as a TEDx speaker myself. I really liked your TEDx and and for me, as I've grown older, when I have moments that really catch my attention, I think it's important to dive into them. The opening of your TEDx and talking about that life changing moment in the hospital. I was just hoping you could share that story with everyone listening.

So it was 2000, Jiminy 9. Somewhere in there now I'm showing my age but long story short, my stepfather, who had pretty much raised me since I was 10 and was as much of a father as I had ever known, was unfortunately in his final days. And you're referring to the picture that I painted in terms of sitting bedside next to him and holding his hand. And so he was in his final days of life. He had fought a good fight against the illness that had consumed him. But unfortunately, it was just in those last moments there. And, you know, really, God, just now you're bringing me back? I didn't expect us to go right here so quickly, but yeah, I mean, it was one of those moments that obviously you never forget for so many different reasons. But as I sat bedside with him and as I held his hand, I actually had a vision of my funeral. Not even of his funeral, but actually of my funeral. I was in the casket. And so it was like, you know, obviously very dark and crowded and damped and whatnot, but there were little peaks of light and I could see a little bit of light coming through. And I could hear the words that were being spoken graveside as I was in that cask and I was being lowered down into the earth. And the words that were spoken at graveside there for me were basically, here lies Steve Ulsher. He dedicated his life to chasing the almighty dollar. And that's all that was said. And it went quiet and I was lowered into the earth and I could see the dirt start to be poured on and I could feel the dirt and just the vibrations of the casket as I was laying within there. And what I really think was going on in that moment was that my stepfather, who could no longer verbally communicate was, was really trying to connect with me through that point of physical touch. And he couldn't explain to me really what he was afraid in terms of what my path was going to be based on the path that I had forged up to that point and really just chasing commodity oriented opportunities and chasing the dollar and this, that and the other. And he was saying, look, this is your inevitable fate unless you change course. And I really took that to heart because he was right. Up until that point, if I had an opportunity to make a dollar and rub a couple dimes together and make a quarter, that was just how I was naturally wired. And he was really saying, look, I believe there's more for you, and I want you to be aware of what's possible, not necessarily inevitable, but really what was possible in terms of how you would be remembered if you just simply continued down that path. And that's when I really did wake up, you know, there's a difference between being awake and being alive, right? And I think that was one of those pivotal moments where I really shifted from being awake to really being alive and just saying, wow, you know, what, what am I doing and what should I be doing with my time so that I can have impact on those, hopefully, who not only share this lifetime with me, but also those of lifetimes to come. So it was a really important turning point for me, for sure.

It's such a beautiful story and just pure magic. I love how you speak about your stepfather. Knowing that he wasn't your biological father, but what a lasting and amazing impact he had on you is so beautiful. So now that you have this moment and you know, okay, I'm meant for more and this is my time, so many people, I feel like, get close to that and that's where they stop, they freeze. Well, what did you do next?

So I didn't really know what the first step was for sure. I just knew that at that point I had been doing real estate development and we developed over $50 million in property, commercial, residential, you name it, we had developed it over the last five, seven, eight years, whatever it was before that point. And so I didn't know what the next step should be, where I should begin, how I should start moving down towards work that may be more fulfilling and really be more of service to others. Right. Because what I had been doing up into that point, Heather, to be completely honest, was of benefit to me and those closest to me, but really nobody else. That's all I knew. And I didn't know what the next step should be. But what I felt in that moment was, you know what? I've learned a lot at that point. I'd been an entrepreneur for the better part of 20 odd years or so. So what I felt in my heart was the next right step was to just start writing and start writing down different ideas that I had, different lessons that I had learned, different strategies that I felt could be of benefit to others and help others avoid a lot of the trial and tribulation damage, right, that I had to endure to get to that point. I didn't know what I, what I was going to do with those ideas. I didn't know anything other than I knew. I just didn't want to die tomorrow with all of those teachings in my head because I felt like, let's write these things down and let's, let's get this out and if it helps just one person avoid again, A lot of those same struggles that I had to endure then that would be a way to start forging a legacy that I could be proud of.

Wow. You just reminded me. One of my dear mentors just passed away a year ago, and this is crazy. He had just started writing a book for the same reason he felt. You know, my entire career here in corporate America, I've made rich people richer. I want to start really giving back, and it breaks my heart. He passed away before he was able to bring that book to light. And I actually, my new book that's coming out in November, I have a chapter dedicated to him and his lessons because I. I'm heartbroken he didn't get to do it, but I want to do it for him. And I'm so proud of you for having that realization earlier. It's so important. Legacy is everything, and definitely not something we think about in our younger years.

Yeah, for sure. And that book took on a couple of different iterations, and it ultimately became the book that you referenced earlier. Which is. Which is what is your what? And that was really my. That's what I poured my heart and soul into. I don't know if that'll be my legacy work. I'm just Emily in my early 50s at this point, so I think I got more writing in me. But, you know, I think if I died tomorrow, I'd be very proud that that was the book that I wrote.

Gosh, that's so powerful and so important. Unlike you, I didn't have this big moment in a beautiful way, the way that you envisioned and then made a choice. I was fired from corporate America unexpectedly three years ago. And that push is what really gave me this moment to say, wait a minute. If I'm going to spend all of my time, energy, and effort doing something, why don't I make it to be something good? And like so many people listening right now, it's very confusing as you try to map that out, as you try to figure out what are those steps and what is my purpose? What are some of the tips that you give people around discovering their what?

Yeah, you know, it's interesting, right? So what? The struggle that you're talking about is a similar struggle that I had, and certainly the struggle that millions of people every single day have, which is, you know, why am I here? How am I naturally wired to excel? What legacy do I want to leave? How do I do what it is that I love doing and something that I'm good at and something I can make a lot of money doing? How do I discover what those talents are? And really, where do I begin? Right. And so I went down a lot of the paths that perhaps you've gone down. The Myers Briggs, the what color is your parachute? The strengths finders, you know, these sort of modalities. And frankly, all those modalities really just left me with more questions than answers. And so I really just sat back and said, you know what? There's gotta be an easier process here, an easier system to really help people figure those things out and hit the ground running. And when I couldn't find it, I created it. And really, I created it as the result of actually starting to teach some of these things in a live setting with actual human beings. And then we got to a point where it's like, look, if you can just figure out these three things, you'll be in pretty good shape. And those three things became the what is your what? Framework, which in and of itself is really, really simple but super profound when you put these three pieces of the puzzle together. And so the what is your what? Framework is really all about understanding what your core gift is. And so if you look at the COVID of the book, what is your what? You'll see a DNA strand. Right? So your gift is really in your DNA, as I like to say, your what has chosen you. It's not that what you have chosen. So your gift is something that will stay with you throughout your entire life. Right. I mean, it's just a part. It's an innate part of who you are. And so your core gift could be something like communicating or protecting or enrolling or entertaining or healing, or one of those various gifts that I've identified. And that's step one is identifying what that core gift is. Step two is then having clarity around what is the primary vehicle that you use to share that gift. So let's just say, hypothetically, your core gift turns out to be healing. You're a healer. You're just a natural healer. That's who you are. You can't deny it. I mean, you could, I guess you can spend a lifetime in denial about it, but ultimately you know that that is who you are. So your healing is your core. Healing is your core gift. So the question is, what's your primary vehicle? And in some cases, maybe that primary vehicle is massage or reiki, or maybe you're a therapist or something of that nature, whatever it might be. And then the third piece of the puzzle, which is equally important in this entire discussion here, is really having a clear understanding of the people who you are most compelled to serve. And so it's a combination of the gift, the vehicle, and the people that make up the what is your what framework. And it sounds easy enough, but I will tell you again, most people will go a lifetime without figuring out one piece of that puzzle, let alone all three. But then the same token, step one of all this is really just turning on the light switch, right? And becoming aware of the fact that I have a what. Like I, you know, the why I've heard about, but you know the why is external. Like, you can choose your why. You can choose to provide clean drinking water for people in remote parts of the world or to help get meals to people who are starving, right? Like that's something that's external. And you can choose your why and your what is internal. Right is an inherent part of who you are. And so many of us just go through life with that light switch off. And really, Heather, more than anything else, before you even get into the nuts and bolts of the what is your what framework, you've got to be able to turn that light switch on. Either say, I want to figure out what my what is, or I'm just not thrilled with what I'm doing. And I know that there's got to be something more here for me.

Yeah, that's so powerful. But people that are here listening right now are turning the light switch on. I really feel like people that are showing up, you know, for podcasts and exposing themselves to different ways of thinking are turning the light on. And if you haven't figured it out yet, you are on the right path.

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You know, it's interesting, I had never heard of the what before, right? As we'd all heard about the why. And it's so profound that idea that that what is ingrained our DNA. However, those next two steps that you get into, you know, the vehicle specifically is for me it's been a lot of testing, right. Like a lot of trial and error. And those parts can be exhausting to work through.

Exhausting is one word for it for sure. What I will also say is that the pressure that we put on people to figure out what their passion is and what they love doing and all that, you know, it's really unfair, right? Because if you look at the what is your what framework really the only piece of that puzzle? Heather, that is, let's just say static is your core gift, right? That gift is a part of who you are and it's going to stay with you throughout your life. The vehicle that you use to share that gift and the people that you are most compelled to serve, those are more organic, more evolving pieces and can change over time. So if you think about what you've done throughout your life, you may find that there are some common threads that weave in between. So much of what you've done, that's really your core gift. The different things that you've done and the way that you've brought that gift to fruition or you know, if you want to get woo on us, right, you've manifested that, you know, that's more of the vehicle that you've used. Like, let's just say your core gift is communicating like you were Just a natural born communicator. Or maybe you're an enroller. Maybe enrolling is your core gift. Like, you're just great at enrolling people into your vision, right? And maybe you've done that through sales, or maybe you've done that through starting a business and raising money, or maybe you've done that through building a community, right? Et cetera, et cetera. But the reality is that if you give yourself permission to shift and evolve and say, okay, that was great, but now it's time for this, you'll find yourself pursuing different paths. And in pursuing those different paths over the course of your life, you'll eventually find certain things that really do put fire in your soul. But those things can be very different, except for the fact that they probably leverage your core gift. You're just showing. It just shows up in different ways as you evolve, right? Brendon Burchard talks about how things that happen in our lives happen for two reasons. Either, number one, something new comes into our life in terms of my stepfather, his passing came into my life. Or number two, something new comes out of you. And maybe you've just had an awakening or something of that nature where you're just like, you know what? I need to do something different, or I feel a new zest, or I've met someone new, or maybe you've had a medicinal experience, you know, whatever you want to call it. And it's usually for one of those two reasons then that you look at where you're at and you go, let me see what else I can do here. And the fact of the matter is that most people, when they know it's time for something new, it's time for something new. And the only thing that's going to be keeping you in doing what it is that no longer serves you typically are the whims and the agendas of others. And that's very real, too.

That can be very debilitating, too, especially when you're an employee in a corporate America type situation, as I really identify with. When you feel like you're being held back and there's this invisible barrier to escape it, which is essentially the unknown. But with your framework, it really, it makes it much more tangible and the potential is so real.

The easy thing to do is once you become aware of the framework, if you find yourself with any sort of, let's just say you're feeling disconnected from what it is that you're doing and you're not waking up with that, you know, with that fire in your soul, you're not feeling like there aren't enough hours in the day to get done what you got to get done, or, you know, things are starting to bother you quite a bit. Right. You just do a quick check in and just say, am I in line with what my core gift is? Is the vehicle that I'm using to share that gift, what I really want to be doing? And day in and day out, do I actually see the types of people in front of me that in this moment in time, I am most compelled to serve? And if any one of those three things are off, it's gonna show up either in the amount of money that you're making or how you feel about yourself, or just any of the above. But usually when there's a little bit of disjointedness there, even on one piece of the puzzle, it's going to show up.

Once you have the book out there, you've got the framework out there, you have this clarity. How do things unfold to open the door for you into podcasting and the magazine and all of these amazing things that you've done.

Yeah. You know, so it's interesting, right? So that's all just part of the journey. And I will say, for me, I've always been one to see trends pretty early. As a matter of fact, I am often too early to a lot of the things that I do. We launched a store on CompuServe's electronic mall in 1993. We built one of the first fully functional e commerce sites in 1995. I mean, just I've been really early to a lot of things, and podcasting was one of those things. I first came across podcasting in 2009, and I was like, well, this is pretty cool, because for me, radio had always felt a little bit like the Holy Grail. Like, if I could have had a radio show with callers and just really. Because I love shining the spotlight on other people, and I love learning about other people, and I love other people's perspectives. For whatever reason. I'm just one to really try to understand how people think and why they think that way and open myself up to the possibility that everything that I know to be true is absolutely wrong. Because what do I know? What I know is what I know based on the data that I've received over the course of my life, the radio stations I've listened to, the newspapers I've read, the people I surround myself with, where I live, et cetera, et cetera. So the data that you've received, Heather, is monumentally different than the data that I've received. So am I right? Are you wrong? Neither is true. And so radio, for me, always felt like that opportunity to really gain really deep insight into other people's perspectives and be able to bring amazing people on. Right. And just interview them and talk to them and give callers the opportunity to ask them questions as well. So I've always. Anyways, I've always had a really big love for radio. And so knowing that radio was one of those things that I really enjoyed doing, when I found out about podcasting, I was like, well, wait a minute. So on radio, I'm just going to have this very small broadcast signal that's going to go out to people in this particular area, and unless they're tuning in to this station at this moment in time in this particular location, they're not going to hear this conversation going on at all. But podcasting, I can reach almost anyone, almost anywhere at almost any time. And the people who have access to podcasts can pull and download that episode whenever they want, from wherever they want and on their preferred device. I was like, it's kind of like a global radio station, so to speak. So I was really intrigued right out of the gate. And so, yeah, we launched our first episode of reinvention radio in 2009, which was our first podcast. And then we have done other shows since then. Kind of gone up and down and up and down, in and out, back and forth with the medium for years, but pretty consistent with it since 2015. And in 2019, after having been involved with the industry again, off and on for the better part of 10 years, I was sitting there one day at a conference, and I'm just one of those people that likes surrounding myself with creative thinkers and whatnot. Just, it opens up new ideas. And so I'm sitting there at this conference, which is just a really great conference in a lot of ways, and the idea hit me as I sat there in the chair, like, why isn't there a Rolling Stone type magazine for the world of podcasts? And mind you, this wasn't a podcasting event. This is just the idea that hit me. You know, why isn't there a Wired type magazine as it covers technology for the world of podcasts, or Vanity Fair for celebrity and, you know, Sports Illustrated for sports, Right? And I'm of the age where magazines are still kind of cool, you know, like, for whatever reason, there's just something cool about a magazine and holding it and looking at it and feeling it and reading it and all that. I'm like, you know what? There needs to be a podcast magazine. And at the time, there were just under 900,000 active podcasts, whereas there were about 75 million active monthly podcast listeners. So I thought to myself, you know what, I don't want to just do like an industry rag that's going to be for podcasters. Like there were a couple people doing that sort of thing. And it's like, that's all well and good because that pool at the time was fairly small. The total available market, as they call it, was pretty small. Whereas, you know, let's just call it 900,000 podcasters versus 75 million Americans who love podcasts like this. This is a no brainer. So I said, you know what, let's, let's see what we can do to create something that covers the world of podcasts and podcast culture and interviews podcasters and really goes deeper into their lives and beyond the microphone with them to give people an understanding of who they are and really what those podcasters are about. Then of course, industry executives and the people behind the people and all this fun stuff. And I just thought it was a really interesting opportunity. And when I looked it up, I had seen there were a couple efforts over the years to do something, but nothing major. And literally, as I sat there in the chair, I bought podcastmagazine.com for just over two grand and $10,000 later. And less than 100 days later, we had our first issue out. So it was pretty interesting to go from my idea to the first magazine in our hands in less than 100 days.

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The key takeaway to me is just the speed at which you move when an idea hits you and also the point that you made. Surrounding yourself with creative thinkers and putting yourself in those situations to open up your mind to challenge the way you're thinking will bring you to a place of a brand new concept and idea.

Yeah, for sure. So you and I had a brief conversation about social audio and talking about Clubhouse. And I mean I felt the same way as soon as I caught wind of Clubhouse back in December of 2020. I just knew that this was the time had come. They had tried to do a couple of other things similar to Clubhouse in various ways over the years, but for whatever reason, the market wasn't ready and it just felt like there was this convergence of trends of, you know, like when you look at the world of podcasts and Heather, you know this as well as anybody. There were a lot of people who are moving for years towards these really highly polished, highly produced, just like, you know, just like almost too perfect productions, right? And then you had Covid hit and then people were at home and I don't feel like dressing up. I'm just gonna do this zoom thing and wait a minute now I don't want to do my hair and makeup so I'm gonna turn off the camera and like everything, all these trends just started shifting more towards these raw and real and authentic sorts of conversations. And I Don't care who you are, just show up as who you are. Let's have a real conversation. And if we mesh, we mesh, and if we don't, we don't. And it was just like this perfect storm. And I felt in my bones like, you know what, this social audio thing, I don't know if it's going to be Clubhouse or not, but someone is going to do really well with this whole new platform, this whole new medium of social audio. And I think it's going to be Clubhouse. Based on what I had seen, I was like, you know what, I'm going to dive into this really, really early and let me get some foundational pieces in place that hopefully will serve for years to come. And so far, so good. But yeah, it's really important to, no matter what industry you're in, to stay abreast as best as you can of what's going on. And to the old Wayne Gretzky ad is right. I mean, just understanding where the puck is going. Wow.

Clubhouse has been. I'm so glad you got in and you launched your club. I mean, you went all in. I had joined the same time, the same December 2020, not thinking the way that you were thinking. And I love that you shared with us that immediately you were thinking, okay, trends are changing. I wasn't thinking that. However, the growth that I have seen recently on that, I mean, that platform has exploded.

It just.

It's blown me away. Do you think it's going to continue like that?

So it's an interesting conversation and I'm not going to sit here and say that I have a crystal ball. All I can do is go based off of what my instincts tell me and more importantly, what I enjoy. And I enjoy the conversations. I mean, it's really just as simple as that. You know, the fact that I have built up a pretty decent following is great. The Club Pod has quickly become the largest podcast specific club on Clubhouse. Right Is great for sure. I'm not knocking that. I love what we built there. We've built a great community of well over 50,000 people already. And by the way, we did that in under 90 days, which is insane. But the fact of the matter is that the conversations that I'm having with people who I wouldn't normally have a chance to be in conversation with and meet them and learn from them and develop real relationships with them. If Clubhouse went away tomorrow, I would not look back and feel like the. Let's just call it the hundred days that I've been on there have Been wasted. It just doesn't feel that way to me at all because I've really been able to do things that nowhere else would have afforded this ability. And the fact of the matter is, Clubhouse could go by the wayside, and it also could really become a staple in the world of social media, in the world of how we communicate with people across the globe. And I will tell you that Twitter's gonna try and Fireside and some other places. I mean, they're all gonna be there and they're all gonna do their things. And I think there time and a place for all of them. But, you know, at the end of the day, we don't look at Instagram and go, well, Instagram is dominating. And we don't look at LinkedIn and go, LinkedIn is dominating. We don't look at Twitter and say, twitter's dominating. There's a place for all of them. So I believe that there is a place for social audio to sit alongside of the other social media channels and it will serve its purpose. And I'd like to think that Clubhouse will be the leader of that conversation. And certainly all signs point to that. But at the end of the day, one might have said the same thing about Periscope, about Meerkat, about vine, and certainly about MySpace. Right? So time will tell.

Time will tell. This was so interesting, what happened. Yesterday I got a text message from a friend of mine that said, hey, did you turn on creator mode in LinkedIn yet? And I had no idea what it was and I wrote back, no idea what that is. You know, keep me up to date or send me some info. Right? Then I get a ping from Clubhouse and it's saying, Heather, there's a LinkedIn Live educational room happening right now on Clubhouse. I jump into to this room. I have no idea why I got pinged into it. And it's the entire executive team from LinkedIn teaching everyone what creator mode is. So I'm able to sit just, you know, in between meetings, garner the information that I need, jump onto LinkedIn, activate my creator mode, understand what capabilities, literally simultaneously, all of these things came within a one hour period and all benefit me, my community. And just timing, the whole thing is unbelievable. The information you can access.

Yeah. And that just really speaks to the power of how one platform can really complement the other. And I know you know this as well as anyone. You can come from a mentality or a mindset of scarcity, or you can come from a mindset of abundance. And the reality is that I believe there is a Very meaningful place for social audio in the social media and communication conversation. And I also believe that when it's used properly, it. It sits alongside everything else that you are doing, including podcasting very, very nicely.

That seems to be the one question that a lot of podcasters have been bringing up. You know, is this going to be the end of podcasting? So you're saying that you see the two will exist and not impact each other, or you do believe that it will impact podcasting?

I believe that it will do both. It will not impact it and it will impact us. So here's how it will impact. It will impact it from the standpoint of we as creators very much live and die off of the interaction that we have with our community. So what Clubhouse really empowers you to be able to do is to have a two way dialogue with your community in ways that traditional podcasting, of course, does not. Right. Because we can have a real time conversation with our community right then and there on Clubhouse. It also gives us the opportunity to create FOMO and have those, you know, hey, you got to be here, be square sort of opportunities, as well as use it as a live focus group, so to speak, where you can test various things and throw some stuff up against the wall and see what sticks. So all of those factors are, I mean, are super relevant to podcasting for sure, because at the end of the day, you can use Clubhouse to feed your podcast, which if you think about it in terms of Clubhouse being real time fomo, not recorded, you're either there or you're not. And your podcast being evergreen, meaning it's available on demand at any time from any device from anywhere on the planet. Right. And then being able to feed your Clubhouse activities or rooms or whatever it may be through your podcast, and vice versa, just the two very much, I believe, sit side by side in a very synergistic fashion. And so what we're actually doing is we're recording all of our podcasts live on Clubhouse, and we're then taking that file and just sending it out directly as is. Because again, if you think back to some of the conversation that we've had earlier, Heather, where you have this convergence of trends, where there is a real, real demand and a real shift for conversations that are raw and real and authentic and unpolished and unproduced. And so you have the ums and you have the ahs and you have the coughs and you have this. It's just reflective of a real conversation. And so what Podcasting, I think, will learn from Clubhouse is that it's okay to have those. I don't even want to call them errors or anything of that nature, but it gets just real, right? So podcasts can certainly learn from Clubhouse in terms of the raw, real, unfiltered, unadulterated nature of a Clubhouse conversation, and feed what's going on in Clubhouse through the podcast and vice versa. So there's a lot that both can learn from the other. But at the end of this whole conversation, really what we're seeing, and certainly what we're seeing is that people thought Clubhouse would kill podcasting potentially. And all it's done for us is basically triple our numbers because we're being exposed to people that we weren't exposed to before. And so it's free marketing, really. And if you go on and you share your brilliance and you talk in ways that people can relate to, when you say to them, hey, check out the last 30 years of episodes that I've done over here. If you like this stuff, right, you're going to find people going over there and checking out a lot of the interviews that you've done and vice versa. So again, the two very much sit nicely side by side. But you may find that there are some people who abandon the traditional podcast in favor of what's going on here in social audio. But it doesn't answer the question about Evergreen. And even the biggest rooms, the biggest rooms right now on Clubhouse are maxed out at 8,000 people. There are a lot, a lot, a lot of podcasts that have more than 8,000 downloads per episode. So some have significantly more than that, especially when you include YouTube and some of the other channels as well. So, yeah, you just, again, it goes back to scarcity versus abundance. And I just see the two is sitting side by side really, really nicely.

Oh, thank you so much for explaining that because I really, I was so curious and definitely wanted to hear your insights on that. And as you mentioned, you know, it's been explosive to watch the growth of Clubhouse, and thus far it's been super helpful to my show, to my social feeds, and I'm a big, big fan. Steve, how do people find you on Clubhouse?

We run Club Pod. Right. So definitely join us there on Club Pod. I recommend following me first and so my handles oddcasts, appropriately enough. So just follow me first and that way, if you follow me first, then we can invite you in as a member. Otherwise you'll just be a follower, but we can invite you in as a member. So that would be the best place to do it. And then. Yeah. Club Pod and my handles. Oddcasts.

Well, I'll be heading over to Clubhouse right after this, following you and jumping in. Steve, thank you so much for dropping all your knowledge today and for your time.

You're welcome. Thank you.

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