#185: AWAKEN To Your True Self and Rewrite Your Story with Ian Morgan Cron Bestselling Author and Enneagram Teacher

The key predictor of success in leadership is self awareness. By extension, I would say that a key predictor of success in life is self awareness. Having self knowledge, the capacity to step back and observe yourself and make adjustments in the moment. You move through the world with so much more emotional wisdom and with the capacity to love. You understand that not everyone sees the world the way that you do.

Come on this journey with me each week. When you join me, we are going to chase down our goals, overcome adversity, and set you up for a better tomorrow. Fasten your seatbelts. I'm ready for my close up. Hi and welcome back. I'm so excited for this episode today because we are going to be learning. I certainly am. Our guest today is Ian Morgan Cron. He is renowned authority on the popular personality typing system known as the Enneagram. His bestselling book, the Road Back to youo, has sold over 1 million copies and is the go to book for learning about the Enneagram. He's also the host of the Typology podcast where he interviews guests about how they have integrated the Enneagram into their daily living. Today we're going to talk about his newest book, the Story of an Enneagram Journey to Becoming youg True Self. Ian, thank you so much for being here with us today.

Heather, thank you so much.

Well, as I mentioned to you before I got the chance to know about you and read your new book, I really didn't have any idea about the Enneagram. I'd seen it in media, but I never really had been digging into it. So I'm assuming some of the people listening right now are going to be in that same boat. Can you share a little bit about what the Enneagram is?

Sure. So the Enneagram is this ancient personality typing system that teaches that there are nine basic personality styles in the world, one of which we gravitate toward and adopt in childhood as a way to cope, to protect ourselves, and to navigate the new world of relationships. Each of those types has an unconscious motivation that powerfully drives how that type predictably and habitually acts, thinks and feels from moment to moment on a daily basis.

Wow, that is. I mean, that's a lot. You're throwing a lot at me. It does make sense that when you take it back to the basis being childhood as a psych major, I feel like everything begins with, you know, what challenges or coping mechanisms we were grabbing as a child. So tell me a little bit about these nine different types.

Well, as you can imagine, I could write 200 pages on each of the types. But why don't I just give you a one or two sentence description of the unconscious motivation of each type? What is it that's driving the way that type typically acts things and feels? Okay, so ones, we call them the improvers. We used to call them the perfectionists, which might give you a little bit of insight into this type. Right? Ones are reliable, dependable, conscientious, detail oriented. They're often morally heroic people. And they are motivated by a need to be good. Right? Virtue is very important. Being appropriate is very important to the one. And they are also driven by a need to perfect themselves, others and the world. Okay, so twos are called the helpers. Warm, supportive, generous, kind, self sacrificing. These are folks who are unconsciously motivated by a profound desire to be liked. Now, all of us want to be liked, right? But twos really want to be liked and appreciated. And so how do they do it? They're driven by a need to meet the needs of others in order to win their appreciation.

Okay?

And if they're not very healthy in their personality, not very self aware, then they often will, you know, kind of give in a strategic or calculated kind of a way.

Okay?

Threes are called the performers. Ambitious, go getters. Productivity minded, goal oriented. These are people who are motivated by a need to succeed, to appear successful, and to avoid failure at all costs. Fours are called the romantics, sometimes the individualists. Incredibly imaginative, creative. See the world from a different angle, disproportionately represented in the creative arts.

Okay?

So you think about Kurt Cobain, you think about Janis Joplin, you think about, you know, and I could go through the corporations I work with that fall into each of these patterns, you know, but these are folks who believe that there is something fundamentally missing in their essential makeup. And they feel that the only way that they can achieve wholeness and belonging in the world is by presenting an image of specialness and uniqueness. Okay? Fives are called the investigators. These are folks who are the, well, the most certainly analytical number on the Enneagram. They are also oftentimes the most emotionally distant or unavailable number on the Enneagram. These are people who are knowledge junkies, you know what I mean? Like, they just cannot help but suck like a Hoover. They're just sucking up information all the time. New knowledge, right? They really struggle in many ways in the area of relationships because they feel like the world is just too demanding and depleting, right? And so they collect all this information and knowledge in order to fend off feelings of inadequacy and to protect themselves, in a way, from the demands of the world. Sixes, the Loyalists, wonderful people, witty, practical, earthy. These are folks who have a really unconscious motivation to feel safe, secure and supported in a world that feels chaotic and unpredictable to them. Sevens, the joy bombs of the Enneagram, they're called the enthusiasts. Fun, spontaneous, great storytellers, all about escapades. Always thinking about a world filled with unlimited possibilities. Right? They're very future oriented. Their unconscious motivation is really a need to avoid painful feelings, circumstances or situations. And so all of that energy of fun and let's get out. It's like all of it is kind of a defense against pain. Right? Eights call the challengers. Larger than life presences, more energy than any other number on the Enneagram. When they're not very self aware, they're notoriously blunt, can be combative. They love a good debate, you know, they just love the juice. My mom is an eight. I'll just tell you a very quick story about eights. My mom is an 8. I have a child who's an 8, but my mom is 93 years old and she's in an assisted living facility now. And I called her when Covid broke out and I said, mom, have you been attacked by Covid yet? And she said, it wouldn't dare.

I love that response.

Yes. It's a classic eight response. Right. These are people who have a need to assert strength and control over others in the environment in order to mask vulnerability and weakness. And then nines are called the peacemakers. Laid back. They're all about hakuna matata. They are just. I mean, they're supportive, they're kind, go with the flow, don't rock the boat, you know, types of people. If Eights leave awake like an aircraft carrier, which they do, Nines kind of leave a little wake like a canoe, you know what I mean? It's just very, very easy going, but they're really motivated by a need to maintain connections, to really preserve inner peace at all costs and keep peace in the environment.

And.

And the way they do that is by avoiding conflict at all costs.

So thank you for explaining that, first of all. And as you were explaining each personality type, people were popping into my mind. I know exactly who they are, whether they've taken the test or not. So are you just born the type, or does it have to do with the parents that raise you or the circumstances you grew up in? What actually defines the type that you become?

I get this question a lot. And you were a psych major. Now I'm a trained psychotherapist. And when it comes to personality development, I think it's a both and. Right. We're born with a certain disposition, temperament, right? It's like in the bones and the blood, if you will. But then we're also affected by, obviously family, by trauma, experiences, by culture, by, you know, just a whole host of forces come together to create a personality. But also remember that the personality, and this is often hard for people to swallow, but it is true, is a collection of defense strategies, right? To protect ourselves and make our way in the world. So it's all the above and it's marvelously mysterious.

And for everyone listening, Ian has this really comprehensive test that you can take that I actually did take myself. And this is I had through just seeing in media, learning about this maybe a year ago, I had taken a real general short test, which I actually. Funny thing is, I got a seven on that test. But when I took your in depth test, I got an 8. And when I was reading your in depth test, which was. It triggers emotion for me. It did. Anyways, when I was answering certain questions, and as I had mentioned to you before, it really made me reflective on my younger years, specifically in my 20s and early 30s, before I had gone down a personal development self awareness journey. And it was sometimes hard for me to answer certain questions because I could go one way or another depending on if I'm thinking of the young Heather or the Heather today. And I'm hopeful that, you know, that my self awareness is correct and that I have been able to modify some of these behaviors. But if I was looking back at the younger Heather, it was crystal clear that the eight was dead on. So are people able to evolve out of the personality types or do they just evolve within them?

That's a great question. They evolve within them. If we sort of buy into what the Enneagram teaches us, that would say that your personality type does not change over the course of your life, but within it you can become. Remember, the human personality is adaptive. It's fluid.

Right?

It's not stuck. So within your type, you can be very self aware, have average self awareness, have low self awareness. Right. Or we could say healthy to unhealthy. Right. During the course of a day, by the way, you're moving all over the spectrum. That's what I love about the Enneagram, because it's dynamic, it's fluid. It explains why we change and evolve and why we are kind of Moving around during the day from self aware to not very self aware. You as an 8 challenger, for example, when you're not doing great, when you're not operating in the zone of self awareness. You know you're a handful, right?

For sure. Right.

Well, I mean, you could perhaps bowl people over, you become overly assertive, you might be a little too opinionated, you might suddenly. And I could go on and on and on. But when you're healthy and you're aware, you're like, okay, I can monitor and regulate the way that I act, think and feel in the moment so that I'm living in a way that is aligned with my values, that's aligned with the person who I want to be, the highest expression of who I could be. And the great thing about the Enneagram is that it really shows you. Here's what you're like when you're in a place of real health, high self awareness, here's what you're like when you're not. Here's what you can do when you find yourself in the trough of lacking self awareness. How can you move back? So again, I've given just two sentence descriptions. It's so even, so hard for me to give short ones because there's so much more to be said about each type.

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It so important to dive into your books and this understanding your podcast to really understand our own type and other personality types?

Great question. I remember years ago I read a study that was done by Cornell University. What they had done is they had gotten 72 high performing CEOs and what they wanted to figure out was what accounted for their success. Like what characteristic, trait or feature explained why they had done such a great job. Here's the one major line from the conclusion the key predictor of success in leadership is self awareness. That blew everybody's mind, right? Because everyone thought it was going to be oh, grit, determination, strategic planning, you know, all these hard skills.

Determination, right?

Yeah, all that stuff. And they said nope, it's Self awareness, it just sort of upended everyone's expectations. Now, by extension, I would say that I believe that a key predictor of success in life is self awareness, right? In your marriage, in your friendships, in your relationship with yourself, in the development of your spirituality, whatever it may be. Having self knowledge, self awareness, the capacity to step back and observe yourself and make adjustments in the moment so that you can better be a person who loves others, who can have compassion, who can have empathy. And once you know not only your type, but the other eight types, your partner's type, your children, your friends, I'm just telling you, you move through the world with so much more emotional wisdom and with the capacity to love because you understand that not everyone sees the world the way that you do. And just because they don't, it doesn't make them abnormal or it just means they bring a different inner terrain to the table. And just to appreciate that, gosh, I can't tell you how many people tell me all the time at workshops, the Enneagram saved my marriage. The Enneagram saved my job. The Enneagram. Just developing self knowledge and self awareness is tremendously important. And no tool I know is better than the Enneagram for accomplishing it.

All right, so then as a true eight, I have to show up and challenge you. This is the first thing that popped into my mind when you were explaining this. I know people who are really successful that are completely not self aware. And you know them too. How does that happen?

I would doubt that they're successful across the full span of their lives. Right.

I'm just looking at business, usually.

Okay, okay. Well, let me just say this about research on business and self awareness. You can get somebody in a job that lacks self awareness and they might succeed, might succeed powerfully for a set time, right? Like if you bring in a hard charger into a company that needs a turnaround and they're like a big bull. You can see the graphs, right? They can have a really good first year, two years, and then it starts to really go off. A person who has self awareness, the trajectory tends to be not as much of a sharp spike, but it's just a gradual climb. And I'm just telling you, if you want to invest in a company, you want to find somebody who's got a CEO who's a slow, gradual climber, right? And not only that, but, you know, a lot of times these people are successful, but at what cost? Sometimes they've thrown people in the meat grinder, sometimes they've, you know, they've ignored their families. Sometimes they've ruined their own health. I mean, the list can go on and on, right? So you can lack self awareness, but that doesn't mean. And be successful in some subset like business or making money or whatever doesn't make you happy, doesn't make you smart relationally, doesn't make you a great parent. Do you see where I'm going?

Yeah. It really is so encompassing. And for a long time, I just would look at that one faction, just, you know, some people just looked at the business piece for success or just the family life. But when you do have that self awareness, it can touch every part of your entire life and elevate everything. Why did you write the new book after the massive success you had with your first one? I don't know. I might have stopped there. I need to understand why you wrote this second one.

Well, you know, I'll tell you a personal story. Many years ago, I had a drug and alcohol problem. This is going back decades, okay? Before I was a therapist, before I did all the things that I do now as a young man. And I had a sponsor in my 12 step recovery program. And he was so smart. He was a therapist. He was an Episcopal priest. He was just about 70 years old. And one night, I told the story of my life at a meeting, right? It's very common. And I got to the end of it. And on our ride home together, he turned to me and he goes, you know, Ian, have you ever wondered if you're living in the wrong story? And I remember thinking to myself, what on earth does that even mean? You know what I mean? I was like 28 years old. I was like, I have no idea what you're talking about. But it did stick to me. There was something about the question that was so intriguing. Well, it stayed with me for years. Thought about it a lot as a therapist. Then when I discovered the Enneagram, it came into full bloom. It was almost like I realized as I listened to clients over the years, so many of them were coming in and they were saying things like, I just feel stuck. I feel like I'm reading off a script that someone handed me that's not my own. I feel like this isn't the story of my life I'm supposed to be living and I'm stuck in Groundhog Day. It just keeps repeating itself. The same mistakes, the same trauma, the same marriage. Bro, it's the same old, same old. You know what I'm talking about?

Yes. No, you're preaching to the choir.

Yes, so when I now, when I've learned that, when I hear that, I realize they're just stuck in a bad narrative. Just remember this, that like in the story of you, I really explained this like in childhood, all of us craft a narrative to help us understand what's happening to us. And we use that narrative as a way to explain to others who we are and how we think the world works. You know what I mean? And it really helps you as a little person. The problem is it's based on usually mistaken beliefs, hurtful experiences, internalized messages we've picked up, real or perceived, from the culture, from our family, from our coaches, from our peers, from negative stuff that happening. All these things form the story helps you make sense of the world. But when you drag that story into adulthood and continue to live inside of that broken story, your life becomes a mess. And what I love about the Enneagram is I don't think it just describes nine personality types. I think it describes the nine most common stories that people find themselves trapped in in adulthood, right? So think about it like the eight I just described that right to you. But you think about the perfectionist ones, right? People you know in your own life who are trapped in this story that says I won't find love unless I'm perfect and unless I perfect others, unless I don't make mistakes, unless I'm really good or the two the helper stuck in a story that says I have to almost disavow my own personal needs and focus all my energy on meeting the needs of others. And man, oh man, you met that kind of codependent person in your life who's just always love bombing people. And you know, it's so sad because I could go through all nine types and all of them are really in direct opposition to what I believe is a healthy story in which we can really live our lives. And the book, the Story of youf, I talk about, well, how do we break out of those old stories? How do we get a new story? How do we rewrite the story and just begin to really live in the most exciting life giving, generative narrative, the one that we were always authentically created to live in.

But the interesting thing is this is really your own story that goes back to that priest gentleman that was advising you back in your 20s, him opening your eyes to that you had the story and then once you found out about the personality types, you unlocking this for yourself.

Yes, that's just the wonderful thing about the Enneagram. Because now I not only can use it as a personality typing system. But it's like I'm just telling you when I talk about I just led a weekend for addicts. Actually, I wasn't leading. I was a group therapist on the weekend and the moment I introduced the idea that maybe they were living in broken old stories, you just saw the lights go on. People lean in when you say that and they go, I didn't have the words to say that. But that's right. I have been trapped in an old, broken childhood story and it's time for me to rewrite an adult story that's genuinely true to who I am as a human being. So great. It's so thrilling.

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Well, you can tell you're so passionate about your work. I love that. Ian Storytelling is so popular today in marketing, in sales and I that everyone listening right now knows the power of storytelling. We've talked a lot about that on my show. I definitely am aware of it and work on my storytelling ability. But what's different about the story of you is the roadmap that you provide for rewriting the story, which is really powerful. You refer to it as soar. Can you talk to us a little bit about that?

Soar means beginning with the letter S C. The first thing I think people have to do is begin to go back and look at how did I get here? Like where did this story come from? What were the bumps and the bruises and the successes and the failures along the way that created this story? You know, for example, I often ask people, it does put them on the spot a little bit, but I'll ask them, think about your first 15 years of life. If you had to write a memoir based on those 15 years, what would you title it?

Train Wreck.

Okay, okay. All right. So. All right. Train wreck. Okay. I've gotten some great answers on this, by the way. So. Okay. Train wreck. All right. Now, as you think about who you are today, what would you like the name of your story to be? Your memoir, your life story, Beautiful growth. Great. Now that's the beginning part of the journey you're going to have to go back and exhume. How did Trainwreck come to be? And how has it. Does it even serve me anymore as an adult? Right. No. The answer is clearly no. Right? Then you want to move on to own. By the way, you can tell this journey is not always a happy journey, right? Like, you're going to have to do the work. And the work means I got to see the story and I got to own it. I got to own what did this cost me and others.

And that can be hard to do. I felt that at work when I just took the evaluation. It was some of the questions were emotionally charged to me. That was odd because I'm sure they wouldn't have been to you or somebody.

Else, or they might have. Or different questions might have been that way for me.

Right?

So I think that we all have to do an inventory of our lives, and I think we have to go, okay, well, how has been my living in the eight Challenger story? What does it cost my relationships or my life at work or what mistakes along the way? Because you have to really start to say, this is a great way, by the way, to motivate you to say, okay, I definitely got to get out of that old story. Right? Then the third step really is awaken. And I just believe that all great psychology and spirituality comes down to one thing. Wake up. It's all about wake up. That's what it's about. And I talk from CEOs to stay at home dads. I say the same thing. Doesn't matter who you are. Life is all about waking up. And so awaken has to do with. All right, well, how does this story continue to function today? What are the old beliefs and the old strategies that continue to launch that don't work, that don't serve me? They're from another story, another era in my life. Then last one is rewrite, right? That's the so soar. See, own, awaken, rewrite. The rewrite portion is. I begin oftentimes with clients with this question. Who were you before the world got its hands on you? Who were you before the world told you who you were supposed to be? Right. And that's the kind of thing we want to do in rewrite is begin to unearth, well, who is that person? Who is it you want to be that. That the person that aligns with your deepestly, deepest held values in life. And I give, obviously through all of those four steps, really detailed instructions. And this book is loaded with stories. So it's not just theory. There's tons and tons of stories in it. Honestly, you can see how excited I am because I have seen my life is all about helping people change. It has been that way all my life. That's what gives me more joy than anything else, seeing people make positive changes in their lives. And very few things in my life, very few tools that I've seen in my life have been more effective in bringing about rapid change. When you tell people you have freedom and agency and power and I think even an obligation to rewrite the story of your life for you as an adult and get out of the old one that you dragged out with you in childhood, it's time to grow up.

You bring up a great point that I think is a deterrent for many people when they think about self awareness and personal development. And I personally experience this. I was in therapy for years, from the time I was 18 years old until I was 35. I mean truly years and years and different types of therapy, mostly cognitive. But the change happened. It was a positive impact in my life. I'm not negative on therapy. I'm totally pro therapy. But it took a long time. I'll never forget being in a place I was very successful at work. I was in a relationship and I had this epiphany one day. The relationship I have with my boss at work is exactly the same as the relationship I have with my fiance in my personal life. I was not getting answers, questions that I was asking, I was being brushed off. I one day I just woke up and I saw it. I'm being treated the same exact way. How am I showing up? What am I doing to create these type of relationships in my life now? To get to that level of awareness, to be able to come to that realization on my own, took years and years of therapy. What I really like about the story of you is this roadmap and this game plan that you can have that can give you that rapid transformation. You don't have to work for 10 years at something to one day wake up and have that realization. You can rewrite it now. And that to me is one of the most powerful things about this book.

Thank you so much. I've experienced this in my own life, I don't write books about something that I haven't done because I think they smell. You know what I mean? A smart reader will know that you're selling snake oil and they'll know that this guy hasn't. He's just got some interesting, quirky, quippy formula and he's pumping it out for the dollar. No, I've done this work. This work has saved my life. It has saved my marriage. This whole idea, probably four times a day, I'll say, oh, dear, I think I'm back in that old story again right now. And it's just not consistent with who I am and the person I want to be. And so I'm going to do what I do all the time, which is reclaim the story for my life that I want to live in.

Can you share an example of someone that's done this work, the Soar work on their own and how it impacted their life?

Oh, countless people. Let me give you an example. I, gosh, I interviewed my podcast Typology, a very successful musician, multi, multi Grammy winning, you know, just very successful guy. And he came in to see me and we were talking and he's a Classic four, right? He's an artist. He, this is the individualist, as you recall, very sensitive, kind of melancholy, a little self absorbed, moody, you know what I mean? Like, but a wonderful human being. And I said to him, I said, so tell me, tell me, what's the name of the story of your early life? And he said, secondhand Boy. And I was like, really? Tell me about that. And he said, well, I grew up very poor. I grew up in a double wide in actually a fairly wealthy farming community. I had to buy all my clothes at the consignment shop while all my friends wore Air Jordans. All my life I felt like an outsider looking in. This is Classic four stuff, okay? And I said, secondhand boy. I said, are you still stuck in that story at 40? He goes, yeah. And I said, does it serve you? And he said, no, it tortures me. I said, dude, if you find yourself living in the wrong story, leave. You got to leave. And so we unpacked it, right? And over time, this guy has really changed as he's done sore work, you know, he's gone back. And together we saw this, like, seeing, like, how did we get here? How did this story launch? Then owning. What does it cost him? Well, there's a long list of things that it's cost him. And then awaken, rewrite. And I think for him I guess if I was going to put words in his mouth, I can't say this, but I think he would say that. The new story is called the Redeemed man, meaning the man who's all that he experienced growing up has been used for really great things. It's been redeemed. He's a person of redemption. It's made him write great music and he's. But he's living in health and self awareness and with such a different appreciation for his quirky, wonderful person, you know, so that's just a quick one that could be for all these types. I mean, it's just exciting when someone reads these nine types and says, oh my gosh, that person is perfectly describing my story and they don't feel alone and they realize, oh, there's hope. I don't have to be stuck in some narrative that just doesn't belong to me.

I love that. All right, so tell me, because we've talked about addicts, we've talked about great creative talents, and We've talked about CEOs. Who is this book for?

Every adult? Anybody who wants to grow up. How's that? I mean, that is to me, I mean, don't you want to grow up? I mean, I'm 60 years old. I still want to grow up. I'm still growing up, right? I want to grow up into becoming the highest expression of the person I was created to be. I want to live in that story. And here's the thing. It's not just because I want to be happy, but trust me, I do. But it's also because I want to be a person who loves people better. I want to move through the world with more kindness, compassion and awareness, mindfulness versus mindlessness, and just be a presence in the world for good. And I think you can't do that. You can't be a true self when you're living in a false story.

Gosh, you just described what happiness looks like to me. I love this quote that you have on the book. Here you will learn how the self defeating stories we invent in childhood later wreak havoc in our lives. The Enneagram helps us craft and live a better, truer story than the one we've unconsciously settled for. Ian, where can everybody find you? Where can they get this book? Because I know they're dying to get it.

You can get the Story of youf on Amazon, obviously. The Story of youf An Enneagram journey to becoming your true self. You can certainly go to my website. Ian I a n morganmorg a n kron c r o n dot com and you can learn about my ieq9 enneagram assessment, some of my video courses, one which is called Discovering youg, which is really all about learning about the Enneagram and all the different types and the system of the Enneagram. You can obviously go to all my socials at Ian Morgancron. Across all those platforms. There's a whole lot of stuff that we're doing that I couldn't be more excited about. I think. I just really think the story of you is going to really upend and radically change some people's lives.

Oh, well, Ian, thank you so much for the beautiful work you're doing. Thank you for writing this story of you and thank you for being here and sharing with us today.

Cheers, Heather. Great to be with you.

All right, guys, until next week, keep creating your confidence. You know I will be. I'm going to make them all over again. I decided to change that dynamic. I couldn't be more excited for what you're going to hear. Start learning and growing. Inevitably, something will happen. No one succeeds alone.

You don't stop and look around once in a while. You could miss it.

Come on this journey with me.