#21: Using Instagram to Grow Your Business with Natalie Elizabeth Ellis

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When you join me here, we are going to chase down our goals, overcome adversity, and set you up for a better tomorrow. Come on this journey with me. Hi, and welcome back to Creating Confidence. I'm so grateful you're here with me. Okay, so, you know, I just got back from la. I am exhausted, but had a really good trip. As always, showing up is everything. That's how you create relationships. That's how you make things happen. So I'm so glad I went. Although it is a little tiring. I cannot tell a lie. Okay, so this morning, I love Facebook. Well, I don't really like Facebook, but I love Facebook for this one reason. These memories that show up, it is shocking the perspective it gives you. So this morning, I turned my phone on and I saw this memory that showed up from seven years ago. This is crazy. So seven years ago today, I had taken the biggest stage of my life. I'll never forget. I was so flipping nervous. My feet were sweating. I thought I was going to fall over. And a really weird thing happened. There was, I think there was probably a couple thousand people there. It was the national association of Broadcasters event, and I was giving away an award. And it turned out, unbeknownst to me, the company that was winning the award was Clear Channel. At the time, they were boycotting the event, or people thought they were boycotting the event. I don't remember the particulars. It's a while ago, but they didn't show up. And so I called out the winner. You know, I said, whatever it was I said. And then I announced the winner and people started booing. And I'll tell you, what a weird situation when you're standing on a stage and all of a sudden everyone's booing and you're the only one standing there. That was kind of crazy. So I ended up. I just started dancing to the music because I think it was. It was some hip hop rapper playing, of course, because that's, you know, my I am thug life. And it ended up that, you know, people started laughing. And then I. I said something like, listen, let's cut these guys some slack. You know, there's so many issues with the airlines, and if you're not having issues with airlines, you're not flying enough. I don't know, I made some joke and it worked out well and I got off the stage. But what's funny today is that looking back and I was reminded of this. I Got a DM the other day from a woman saying, it's so unfair that people like Rachel Hollis explode overnight. I need to break into speaking and this post just gave me that perspective. I tell people all the time. I spoke for the last 20 years in corporate America. I took thousands of stages just because back then, you know, my social media wasn't big and I wasn't sharing all of this stuff. Didn't mean it didn't happen. And it was just a good reminder for me today that, you know, this, what I do today is so many years in the making. None of this has happened overnight, mind you. I still haven't hit my Rachel Hollis moment yet either. But it's coming, I know it is. And I'm just going to keep working. It's the grind. It's, you know, that day to day showing up. And I actually, I want to share something really exciting. I pray this is exciting, but I had mentioned to you that when I was in Boston a couple weeks back speaking at Hyper Growth, I had the opportunity to go into APB speakers and meet with all of the agents. Now at that point in time, I was already represented by the Harry Walker Speaker Agency, GDA speakers and big speak. There's somebody else I'm forgetting, but I'm not sure who it was. And now I was there to add myself to the APB team. However, what was interesting was this was the first time that I got a face to face opportunity to pitch myself to agents live. I had done it on the phone, but never face to face. And as I'm always preaching, you've got to go face to face if you want to get something done. So in that meeting I'll never forget, they kind of said, hey, just tell us about you. And I just went into my whole pitch. And then at one point someone said, you know, your bio's not that good on your speaker kit, but the bio on your website is much better. And she was holding a piece of paper and I said, hand that to me. And I took it and I crumpled it up and I threw it on the floor and I stood up while I was doing and I said, done, problem solved. What do we move on to next? And everyone started laughing. And, you know, it just reminded me that until you get face to face with people and they see your energy and personality, you know, I have the sickest reviews of my work and of my speaking and they'd seen it, but until they met me and saw me and felt my energy, they, you know, they were going to add me to their speaker lineup, which they did. But it was that moment where the head of the team said, heather, we want to sign you exclusive. We want you to be just with apb. Now, you know, we talked through why someone would do that because I didn't understand. I am a rookie in as far as being a professional speaker. This has all just been the past year that I've been working on this. Even though I spoke for the past 20 years, that that was not my job. I didn't even know people got paid for speaking. Okay, so stay open minded to the fact that I'm a rookie on the business side of this. So I asked some good questions. I asked why would people want to sign and why would people not want to sign? Because I'd like to hear both sides of that. You know, I was trying to have some understanding. Now my expertise and track record and career has been in sales. So one thing that I know is you must close when you're face to face. So in my mind, while I was asking these good questions, I also knew, Heather, if you do want to, you know, go exclusive with someone, don't you dare leave here day without the commitment. Because it's so much harder to, you know, work something out over email or the phone. So I stayed in that meeting, continued that conversation, stayed there so much longer than I should have because I had to get back to hyper growth to speak. However, you know, I really wanted to learn everything I could from this team. And I will say this, these people are like salt of the earth. They're from Boston, where I'm from. I just really felt at home there and I felt good, you know, that they got me, understood me and that they cared about. And to me that's, you know, that's everything. You need to work with people that you can trust and that you feel safe with that, you know, you feel like they have your back. And I genuinely got that sense. So to make a long story longer, you know, I asked a lot of good questions. They gave me some great answers as to why. And what I learned in that moment was I had been with all these other speaker agencies over the past year and none of them were pitching me. I am the only one that ever pitches me. So I'm doing all the work. I'm out there pitching all the companies, I'm out there promoting myself. I'm out there securing deals, negotiating deals. I have to chase down the money, I have to do all the discovery calls. You know, it's a lot of work for one person. What they Explained to me in that moment was that when you're with a lot of speaker bureaus, a lot of speaker agencies, that's great because you have that exposure, that credibility, you know, and your face is next to Bill Clinton's on these websites. So it really separates you from other speakers out there. However, unless you sign exclusive with someone, there's no incentive for them to pitch you, because they know that if they pitch you, and let's say I didn't sign with apb, and if APB pitched me, someone could have just gone to another speaker agency to see if they could get me cheaper, or, you know, there's always this backdoor opportunity that, you know, you're not going to get the deal done. So they taught me that speaking agency speaker bureaus only pitch and promote their exclusive clients. And that made a lot of sense to me. And then they also explained to me that they could still be that go between for the other agencies, so I could still appear on their sites, but they would be the one brokering the deals. And that, you know, APB would handle all that. Frankly, that's a blessing to me. I don't want to handle the brokering. I don't want to handle the negotiation. I don't want to be that person because, you know, time is everything to me. And when you're working for yourself, any way that you can be more efficient and more productive is everything. So being able to peel that off and hand that to them was a gift. And anyway, so I left there and crickets. I didn't hear back from them. We secured the deal. We all agreed at the table that I would go exclusive with them. They promoted it and announced it on their Twitter feed. And then crickets.

Nothing.

I hate crickets. Crickets drive me crazy. However, I knew I felt really good about what I did there that day. I felt so proud of what I did at Hyper Growth. I knew one of their agents was working with the team at Hypergrowth so that they would hear the feedback that I did really well. So I just kind of said, hey, I'm going to stand in my power right now. I'm not going to chase them down. I'm going to move forward. And I just kept building my pipeline and putting myself out there. And I secured two more deals locally here in Miami to speak over the next eight weeks. And, you know, I've just been working on my side of the business and letting go of that. It has not been easy. Okay. I've been so annoyed about it. All of a sudden, when you know, yesterday I get an email, hey, Heather, we're back from vacation. I didn't know they were on vacation. And we need to secure the paperwork, get this stuff signed, and get you up and going as an exclusive with us. So let's get pitching you. We need to get your contract back. That was. That was it. And so I signed the contract, sent it back to them, and now praying that we're going to be off and running and these guys are going to be pitching me. So I learned so much here. I was thinking that I had partnered with all these bureaus and that I would be getting business from them, and I wasn't getting anything. And now I was learning why it was I wasn't getting anything. So it's kind of eye opening. You know, what you don't know sometimes can be the thing that's holding you back, but it's about taking action, showing up, meeting new people, asking questions that. That helps you put those pieces back together. So, yes, I am a rookie in the business side of speaking. No, I'm not a rookie when it comes to speaking, but I am starting to learn this business. I'm grateful to be working with good people who are willing to teach me and explain to me. And I'm really, oh, my gosh, I'm so hopeful that this was a great move. I will let you know. I signed a year deal, so I will let you know. I'm hopeful it's gonna work out great and that they're gonna get me booked all over this country. I. I'm actually speaking this week. I'm speaking Thursday in Miami, if you're in Miami or if you want to come to Miami. Bacardi Leadership Summit is at the Lowe's Hotel. There are still tickets available and I am speaking there. So I hope to catch you there. Now. Another crazy thing that happened was I turned on Instagram this morning and the picture a year ago today on Instagram was me at my hotel in LA getting ready to go to meet the Steve Harvey executive producer. The reason why I want to tell you this is so it's September, right? And I went on that pitch a year ago today. I had crickets. Until January 3, I did not hear anything back from them. I ended up sending them a life size cut out of myself. I ended up sending them overnighting them books that I had signed. My meeting went amazing. A year ago today, they were like, oh, we love you. We definitely want to have you on the show.

And.

And crickets.

Now.

I ended up hearing back from them January 3rd. So it just goes to show, you never know what's coming. You know, sometimes you just have to keep moving forward and working on things and not get caught up in the negativity of, oh, I thought I had this, because you actually might have it. You just don't know yet. Now come to find out. What I didn't know is that, you know, Steve was losing his show and they were picking up Kelly Clarkson. There were so many things going on internally there. People weren't thinking about me or their. Any other guests. They were thinking about their own job preservation, I'm sure. So there was a lot going on internally. There had nothing to do with me. I ended up getting the call January 3rd, I went on the show. I believe it was the second or third week of January this year. So, you know, it took months for that to pan out and happen. But it did happen. Kind of like this thing with apb. I was wondering where they went. They were on vacation and now they're back and now we're up and running. So, you know, keep moving forward, keep taking action and try not to get down, because sometimes we just don't have the whole picture or all the information, and it all works out in the end. So today. Oh, my gosh, I'm super excited for you to meet my guest who I just interviewed in la. I loved her. I don't love all my guests, I'll tell you that, but I really love Natalie. She's real, she's super smart, and it's just frustrating that she's 20 years younger than me, but I'm really proud of all that she's accomplished. This woman has figured out how to hack Instagram, and this is another great example. You know, I really got aggressive on social media, launched my personal brand three years ago, and when that happened, Instagram's algorithm wasn't the same that it is now. It was much easier to scale your audience three years ago. So if you didn't launch your Instagram three years ago, the next best time to do it is today. Just get going. And P.S. linkedIn is today what Instagram was three years ago. If you want to grow fast, go to LinkedIn. But as far as Instagram goes, I had no idea there was a hack that you could use to grow your Instagram today. I didn't. I really wouldn't have believed that if someone told me until I met Natalie. When you see what this woman has built, in a year and a half, she has over 1.6 million followers. She gains 28,000 followers a week? Are you kidding me? It just goes to show that just because you don't know it's possible or that it's figured out, it doesn't mean that it isn't. Somebody else might have that key. We just need to connect to that person. So today I'm connecting you to that person. She's going to show you how you can blow up your Instagram. She's also going to show you a bunch of other hacks that she's implemented for her life. I'm just, I'm so proud of this young lady. I'm so proud of her business. And she's just the kind of people you want to hang from and, and learn from. So, as always, we're ready to level up with my next guest. But before we do, if you don't know your numbers, you don't know your business. But the problem growing businesses have that keeps them from knowing their numbers is their hodgepodge business systems, or lack thereof. They have one system for accounting, one for sales, one for inventory. It's just a big inefficient mess. It takes up too much time, too many resources, and that crushes your bottom line. Introducing netsuite by Oracle, the business management software that handles every aspect of your business in an easy to use cloud platform, giving you the visibility and control you need to grow and scale your business. With netsuite, you save time, money and unneeded headaches by managing sales, finance and accounting, hr, everything instantly right from your desktop or from your phone. That's why NetSuite is the world's number one cloud business system. And right now, NetSuite is offering you valuable insights with a free guide 7 Key Strategies to Grow your Profits at netsuite.commonahan that's netsuite.commonahan to download your free guide 7 Key Strategies to Grow Your Profits. Netsuite.com monahan Hang tight. We'll be right back. Hi and welcome back to Creating Confidence. I'm so excited for you to meet my fab guest, Natalie Ellis, Boss Babe co founder and CEO. She is a major CEO at just 27 years old. Natalie is the creator and strategist behind Boss Babe, one of the fastest growing online communities of ambitious women with a global online community of over 1.7 million women. And we had to update that number because this thing's growing so rapidly. Its mission is to inspire and support women to turn their dreams into a reality through building successful businesses. Natalie, thanks for being here.

Thank you for having me.

How about that accent? It's gorgeous. I can't take it.

Thank you. I love that. I get that in America when I'm back home, no one cares less.

And so where is home?

I'm from Newcastle, which is near Scotland. It's like, for anyone that doesn't know the uk, it's basically the Winterfell of the uk. If you watch Game of Thrones.

Oh, I don't. Isn't that tragic?

It's kind of.

I'm the only person everybody else listens, watches it. So.

Okay. Yeah. Northern England.

So how long have you been here in the States?

About three and a half years now. And I've been in LA for just over a year.

But you actually weren't. For the three and a half years you have been here, you weren't 100% in on Boss Babe and building 1.7 million community and followers?

No, I. We went kind of all in about a year and a half ago. Before that, I had a different company and was just feeling into what my passion was going to be. And we had this growing. But we went all in about a year and a half ago and it's been incredible.

So tell us how this community came to be, this initiative came to be, and knowing that you wanted to go all in happened.

Yeah, I mean, I'm like that cliche entrepreneur. I, like, had my first business when I was seven and I like. I think I was like a born entrepreneur because no one in my family is an entrepreneur, so I don't know where it came from.

Did they think you were crazy?

Oh, yeah, they think they still do. I don't think they even know what I do. But, yeah, I was always like this. I always loved this idea of creating something and having that freedom. But it was only when I was about 13 that I even discovered the word entrepreneurship. And it kind of summed up what I was doing. I was at a career day at school and some lady came in and was talking about having her own business. I was like, that's what I want to do. And so I've always just been obsessed with entrepreneurship. And I thought for me that meant having a bit business. And my first, like, real official business was a supplement company. I was manufacturing supplements and had them in stores all across the UK when I was 22. And what I realized was I actually love the idea of entrepreneurship and really helping other people get into it than just having multiple different kinds of businesses. Like, entrepreneurship is my passion. And so it took a while to figure out what that looked like because I'm like, is it a Job to help other people start businesses. Is it a job to talk about entrepreneurship? Is anyone else even interested in this thing? Because I thought it was weird no one else around me was doing it. And that's how I really got into Boss Babe and decided to go all in. Our first, like, product was called the Society, which is a membership for female entrepreneurs. And it was essentially me just creating what I really wish I had back when I started my first business, because it was so lonely. And it can be when no one around you really gets what you're doing. And so that's where it really all started and kind of evolved from there.

And so you really just followed your passion, not what other people were telling you to do or what you should be.

Yeah. And there was a lot of having to really push back on what people were telling me to do. I remember when I was leaving university, I had an amazing job offer. Would have paid off all my student debt. It was like the dream job for the degree that I did. And something inside just didn't feel right. And I asked them, I asked the graduate job, can you just give me a year to figure this out and then I'll come back and start the job in a year's time? And they were like, yeah. And so I made this bet with myself, okay, if I can get any business off the ground, I don't care what it is, then I will go and do that instead of going to this job because I had bills to pay. I couldn't just. Just take a few years off. But getting a business off the ground often takes longer than you think. And so it came to that year point, and I was literally just freelancing to make money while trying to get a business off the ground. And I had to really make a decision to go all in on myself and turn down this job. And everyone thought I was crazy. And it's been a lot of that, like, taking bets on myself and doing things that maybe I haven't seen other people doing, but it really does pay off. And it sounds cliche, but it does.

But were you scared? I mean, you make it sound easy to me, thinking of having that dream job or, you know, when I graduated school, I got into sales, and it was a good enough job. I never thought of doing anything else because that's what I was supposed to do or society told you to do. So what. What do you attribute that. That difference making that you were able to just go with your gut and your idea?

I had a really turbulent childhood, which I think made me very Resistant to uncertainty. And so even when I was at university, I was traveling, I would just hop on a plane on my own and go to Asia or I came to America and I would have just a couple hundred dollars in my bank account. I would have no idea what I was going to do. But I think I built that resiliency in my childhood to just see what happened and put that faith in myself. And I think when you put faith in yourself and it pays off, you get evidence you can trust yourself and you get evidence in that self belief. And I just kept doing it more and more to a point where I really did believe myself and I was willing to do it. But I still now I get scared making decisions and I have these moments of, oh, is it gonna fail? Like, this is really risky. But again, if it works out, it's just more evidence in the bank. And if it doesn't, I feel okay in doing something else.

That's amazing. I so applaud that you're doing this at some point. Such a young age, it's mind blowing to me. It took me turning 43 to figure any of this stuff out. And you're light years ahead, so congrats. It's really awesome to watch that happen.

Thank you.

So when you did go all in on Boss Babe, what were the initial steps that you took? What did all in look like?

So I really wanted to create this product, the Society. I wanted a membership product where women could join with a really low entry point. Like, we started it at $29 a month, and so it was the amount of money that pretty much anyone could invest. And we just poured so much into them to really help them get their business off the ground. And that's where we started. We were like, if we can really get some women in here and transform their lives and really show what we're doing, then we've got something. We've got product market fit, and we can scale it. And so I spent months just doing research into young entrepreneurs and what they need and why they fail in business. And I tried to tick all the boxes that would suggest if they do these things, they will succeed. And so we came up with a framework, and we helped walk them through the framework. And very quickly we started getting results. And so people started talking about it. So this product scaled very, very fast. And so from there, we just really listened to our audience. I'm very good at Instagram, and so growing Instagram was the thing that I did. And so as my audience there grew, I just kept listening. What do you want from us? What more can we do to support you? What is stopping you from taking the leap and saying yes to this business? And it really came from there and we just kept listening and the next product we came out with was a product called iga, which is an Instagram accelerator and helps them do what we did on social. We very much just said this, our exact strategy, take it, go use it. And again, it really worked and we just kept listening. And so that's really what the business is built on, just building a community of ambitious women, really supporting them and saying, okay, what's next? What is it going to take for us to help you get to that next step? Because success looks so different for everyone. What I think is successful is probably different to you. And so the ability to listen and pivot and move fast I think has served us really well.

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Move fast and break things. I'm all about it.

I love it.

So you brought up Instagram, which is interesting because to me Instagram is a mystery. I cannot figure it out. I can't crack the code. And anytime you figure out one thing, it seems everything changes and you're set back a year or two. So what can you share some of that recipe for success of why you're able to get your Instagram blowing up without posting naked pictures of people, by the way.

I love that. Yeah. I mean my first tip for anyone is try and create viral content. Because viral content is going to mean that you are pushed to the top of everyone's feeds because Instagram is signaling this is a really good piece of content and they want as much engagement as possible on their platform. So you're going to be pushed to the top of everyone's feed. You're going to be on their account Explore page. And that means you're going to get seen by people who aren't even following you or people are going to be tagging their friends in your post. So again, you're getting seen by people who aren't following you, but probably should be, because if their friends are, chances are they're your demographic too. So viral content is definitely the place to start. And so what I would be doing is making a list of like at least 10 people who are very, very similar to you in your niche. So for us, it would be female entrepreneurs or ambitious women. We would go and look at other pages or influencers who have the same following as us and scroll through their PA, their feed posts. So say they have 10,000 likes. 10,000 likes. And then you spot a 50,000 likes. Okay, jackpot. This went viral. Why? And we dissect it and we try and understand, and then we repost it and we test. And if that goes viral for us, we know, okay, this is a similar audience and this recipe works.

I feel like this is cheating.

It's just really, really figuring out what everyone's going to resonate with. And then once you know that and you've tested it a few times and you kind of dissect your recipe, then you can create original content based off of that.

It's amazing. It seems so simplistic. Yet I can tell you this. I never thought to do it.

Yeah. And I don't think it is because it really takes time to really test and try and see what's actually working. So that's one tip. And then just with the new algorithm update. So Instagram are now testing in different countries. They're hiding likes and comment like, like numbers, which is really interesting. And I think it doesn't really scare me and I don't think it scares a lot of influencers because sometimes you can worry about the way that your content's perceived. Like if you used to get thousands of likes and then you get like a couple of hundred likes, you're like, wait, does no one like me? What's happened? And it can stop you from posting content. And I mean, so like, if people aren't posting on social media and they're just consuming, that's just like a publication. It's like of a bunch blog. And that's not what builds a social media company. So I think Instagram and Facebook are really catching on to this. And so they're making it really easy for you to post pictures of your dog and not really care less how many people are going to like it. And so I think what that tells us as well is the frequency of your post is important. So the more you're posting and creating all the original content, then the more you're going to get favor with Instagram. So I say story every single day and we post four times a day, which is a lot. But we're a brand, which I think you get away with. It's not pictures of me every single day. It's like lots of different types of content. But as a personal brand, if you can post like at least once a day, I think it'll really serve you.

Oh my gosh. That's a lot of work.

It's a lot of work. Yeah.

How many people do you have on your team that work on your social?

On the social? Probably just two.

Wow.

Yeah, we're a really small team. There's only 19 in total on the team.

So what are the majority of the people on your team working on?

Totally different things. We kind of split between marketing and ops. So we're like very systems focused because we have, we have thousands and thousands of clients. That's a lot of maintenance in the back end. So making sure tech doesn't break, making sure we can answer everyone's emails at every single point. There is always someone on live chat on the inside our membership. So if anyone's struggling with anything, they can hop on there and ask questions. So it's a big mix of different things. And then on top of our Instagram, we have our Facebook, our podcast, our blog. So lots of different people working on different things.

So I'm sure one of the questions that you get from a lot of your members and a lot of your community is, great, you're teaching me how to increase my following and I'm amassing a larger following. However, at what point can I monetize it and how do I do that?

Yeah, I get that question a lot. And I think it really depends on how you monetize. So if you're monetizing your own product, say you have like physical products or service based products and you're monetizing, you can be monetizing from less than a thousand followers as long as they are really targeted and engaged. Or of course, if you're getting sponsorships, then it has to be a higher number, but it really depends on the buying power of your audience because the company is going to want to work with someone with say 50,000 followers who have very strong buying power than someone with a million followers whose audience are not trusting them and aren't going to convert. But if you're just monetizing your own Instagram, it's really about attracting people that are gonna buy from you. And so that really comes down your content strategy. So are you posting stuff that your absolute ideal client would engage with, or do you even know who your ideal client is? Do you know where they hang out? And so that's kind of where it comes back to that viral research. So really seeing what resonates with them and building intentionally, I think sometimes on social, it can be this whole attraction. I just want to get thousands and thousands of followers. But actually, is that going to serve your business? Because sometimes in IJ, I'll teach people to. Instead of going after 10,000 people, like, try and go after a thousand of your ideal clients. Because if a thousand people buy your product, that's a pretty big conversion. That's a lot. And so really, really thinking through, like, that. But I would always start with just getting super clear on who your ideal client is and what. What content they resonate with.

One of the things that I find so hard listening to you explain this. You know, I know what my followers love, but sometimes it's hard to reinvent that every day, right? So on my feed, people love to hear about what challenge I'm overcoming or be inspired by some massive thing like me getting fired. But you don't get fired every day, right? So how many times can you go back to that well again? Or how do you reinvent it to make it fresher, interesting?

I think what you're telling me is I just love the transparency that you post. And. And so, like, thinking about how you can just incorporate that daily. So whether you're having, like, a shitty day, like, talk about that and just say, like, yeah, I didn't get fired, but this happened. I was in a really bad mood. I had to push past, like, 10 podcasts and whatever it is. And I think just like, bringing people behind the scenes is a really nice thing, because I think sometimes on social, vulnerability can be perceived as, oh, they're just trying to sell me something again. But when you're just like, really open and transparently, like, hey, of kind, guys, I'm just bringing you on this journey with me. I think people resonate a lot with that. A couple of years ago, like, people loved scrolling through their feeds and just seeing these, like, Pinterest perfect photos. And I think people don't like that so much anymore. They want to see realness.

What do you think's gonna come next? Cause I do agree with you. People loved that picture Perfect and put 18 filters on it and now everyone's putting no filters on. And those are the posts that are doing well. Where do you think that this evolution will go next?

I think this is going to continue and just really going into video more and more video is obviously huge already, but I think video just helps you connect with a person on such a deeper level than like an image or something. And so I think that transparency is really going to continue, but it's going to be a lot more video based.

What about your thoughts on LinkedIn?

I think LinkedIn is an amazing platform and I think there is a lot to be said about LinkedIn. I don't think enough people are really putting time into growing it. I think it's growing very, very fast. I would be in.

It's unbelievable to me. It's my easiest platform to grow and to get viral content. And what's so interesting, and I'd love to hear your take on this, I can post something on LinkedIn, it'll get a million views. I post the same thing on Instagram. It gets a thousand views. Why? Why does one thing work so well over here? And I assume it's the similar people that are engaging with the content.

It's probably completely different demographics. I think the Instagram audience is definitely a bit younger than LinkedIn. I'm not a LinkedIn expert, but that's what I've noticed. Whenever I post kind of business content on LinkedIn, it does so much better than if I do it on Instagram. Like, people just want bite size. On Instagram they're scrolling. But on LinkedIn I feel like they're spending more time, they want something more valuable. So I don't know. It's really interesting.

And what about your email list? How does that weight in your business? And do you put a lot of weight into creating a large email list?

Yes, 100%. Because with social media, I mean, God forbid anything ever happens. But you don't want your business to be dependent on an Instagram account. What if the algorithm changes or you get shut down or any of these things that could happen. I don't want my audience base to be owned by another company. And so as much as I possibly can, I funnel people to my email list and really, really build that up. I think that's real estate that you own and that's where I'm really, I really care about building.

And you believe or your feedback that you're getting from your community is that even these younger people are using their.

Email Yeah, I mean, our audience are about like 25 to 35, and our email list is super engaged and it's growing really, really fast. And we just get really intentional about, okay, what does it look like from someone clicking the follow button on Instagram to then becoming a subscriber on our email list? That's. That's a customer journey that we really care about. And so just constantly asking them to join and giving them like free challenges and downloadables and reasons to sign up I think is super important. But yeah, we get an amazing engagement. We haven't seen that drop. I do think there's other pieces of like real estate online that are interesting. I think messenger bots, I think text message, all of that feels very intimate, and we're building that too. But at the same time, you don't. It's the same messenger, you're not owning. This text message is different numbers I think is great real estate, but I think we're moving more towards that kind.

Of intimate, that messenger bot. I just installed a bot on my website a month ago and I've been blown away by the questions. And it's really like you're having a conversation with somebody live, however you can't see their face. But it's a great point that you just mentioned, but I still don't own that person because I don't have their email list. So how do you do take that opportunity in a conversation on a site and convert that into something where you get that takeaway?

I would have like a handful of freebies. So depending on what they're asking, you just say, oh, I've got the perfect resource for you. Here it is. Send it to them. They put their email in, they get to download it. That's what we do. We try and respond to every single DM that we get. And we normally have a handful of freebies ready to go. And based on whatever they're asking, we'll funnel them towards a specific thing or we've got quizzes. We might say, hey, if you're stuck or you need clarity, go fill this in. It'll give you it. And obviously they put their email in to get their results. So just having those to hand and being able to hand them out very fast I think is a great idea.

I'm absolutely gonna do that because I've had so many people come and have a conversation on the site and I'm saying, geez, I don't know who that person is. You can see the city they live in, but that's all you know Right.

And they must be asking the same things over for Nova. Like you could probably pool it into like five things.

Right, Right. Yeah, no, that's a great idea. I definitely need to offer. I currently only have two different free giveaways and now I just need to, like you're saying, address the other topics that people are bringing up so I can offer them that for a conversion point. So talk about linktree to me because this is something I've heard conflicting information on. When we have our site up on Instagram and we, you know, you have that one site you can drive people to. Do you drive them to your website? Do you drive them to a link tree so you can offer them a number of different things? What is that? Right answer?

Yeah, I mean, I don't know that there's a right answer. I don't use it personally, but I do see value in some people using it. I think it really depends. I do love to see people having a clear call to action because I think it's a lot easier to tell someone to do one thing than give them 10 options. And they're just getting this decision paralysis. So I choose not to use it. But if you are, if you kind of are in one niche but you have lots of different things to offer, maybe you've got a blog and a podcast and a freebie, you could use it. And I would, I honestly love data and so I would test, I would say, okay, this week I'm going to use a link tree. This is what the numbers look like. Next week I'm not going to use it. This is what the numbers look like because I think there's no right answer for anyone. It's all in data and I make all my decisions based off data when I can. So a B test and see what works for you.

You have no formal training with data, do you? No, this is all just self taught. Yeah, that's pretty impressive. And at such a young age, it just, it's really eye opening to me. So when you look back three years ago and you had just come to the U.S. did you have any idea how successful your business was going to be this quickly? Did you see that happening?

Yes and no. Like I always had a lot of self belief and I wanted to be a millionaire before I was so day and obviously like all of that happened a lot sooner than I thought. But I never for a minute doubted that I would be successful. Like I'm like a big manifesto. So I always had things written down in my journal like I would. And I still do it. I would write down what my day would look like. Even. Like, I would be like, I wake up, I see palm trees. Like, I didn't have a green card. Nothing. I didn't know I was gonna be able to stay in this day. It's like, it's obviously very hard to immigrate. So I didn't know any of this is gonna happen. Happened. Like, when I first moved to America, I was sharing a room with four people, all my friends from college. Like, none of us, like, had a penny to our name. And I just held that vision, and I knew what I wanted, and I just kept saying yes to opportunities. And I worked really, really hard, and I really believe in tipping points. So you can work really, really hard, and one day everything just clicks and it falls into place, and then things happen a lot faster. And that's definitely what I experience. I think you push, push, push, and then you exponentially grow. So, yeah, I always held that vision, and I. I think I didn't give myself any other choice.

Well, I haven't reached the tipping point yet. So tell me, how do you get yourself to stay on that path during those moments where it's difficult and it feels tiring and you're wondering, when is that tipping point coming? Because it should have already been here by now. You're thinking in your mind.

Yeah. Just hold the bigger vision and just know why you're doing it and just keep pushing. Because there's always going to be hard points. Like, even when you think you've made it and you're like, at the tipping point, and then you're growing, then something's gonna, like. Like, everything's gonna fall down again. Like, I feel like you're always gonna have those hard points, and so just really remembering why you're doing it. And one thing I'm really trying to get better at is not be. Not let the lows be low and not be the hat. Not let the highs be too high. Because what I realized, like, especially as an entrepreneur, like, the highs can be really high, and the lows can be really low. Because if you think you're gonna lose your business or something bad happens, like, it's all on your shoulders. This is your business. This is your responsibility, and there's not really anyone else who's gonna care as much as you do. And it's a lot of weight, and you can feel like everything's falling apart, and it can be really low, or the highs can be so high that you're, like, super energetic. And what I've realized is that can be a really draining, exhausting journey. And so I'm trying to get to a place now where I don't really let either or affect me. And of course, I'm gonna feel, like, happy or I'm gonna feel sad, but I don't want to be on that roller coaster anymore that I think I definitely have been on in the past because it's draining. And I want to be in a place where I am, like, always calm, no matter what's going on, so that I can lead from that way because it's not just me anymore. And I've realized that that's pretty important when you have a team, like, relying on you.

I feel like you just described all my romantic relationships. I mean, getting addicted to that roller coaster ride is the same thing in business as it can be in relationships. Do you subscribe to that same philosophy in your personal life now?

I mean, I'm trying, but it's hard, right?

It's hard. Definitely.

It's hard. Yeah.

How does it work at Boss Babe? Having a co founder, it's incredible.

I didn't realize until probably, like, a year or so ago, but everything I've really done in my life that I've loved, I've done with other people. Like, I've always been that collaborator. I love, like, being at the table with someone else who brings the things I don't bring. Like, I'm very good at seeing what I'm good at and what I'm not good at. And I don't want to waste my time going and doing the things I'm not good at because no one's gonna win. No one's gonna enjoy that. And so I've always, from, you know, being in school, like, found people that were gonna help me win or. And I can help them win at the same time. And so I met my co founder at a random, like, event, like, business event. And it was really funny because, like, we were with a bunch of people. I actually went with a friend of mine. It was all her clients I was meeting, and everyone was going out that night for drinks. And I was, I'm a Capricorn. I was like, no, I need to go to bed early. I need to be up so I can be at the seminar and learn and all this stuff. And. And my business partner was exactly the same. She was there too, with her husband. And they were like, oh, we're gonna go out for dinner. And I was like, great, I'm just gonna come with you. And I like, third wheeled and went out for dinner with them and like, we just had a really good relationship from that point. And I, their relationship was very similar to mine and my husband's, so I was like, well, if nothing else, we'll just be couple friends. That'll be great. And we just kept in touch from that event and started collaborating. And then she, she, we started kind of talking about the idea of the society together and she decided to invest in Boss Babe with me and came on board and it's just been absolutely incredible because we're so completely different.

That's such a nice compliment for you both.

Yeah.

So where does Boss Babe go from here? I mean, the expectations I would imagine and probably the pressure you put on yourself because you've had this extreme success in this very short period. I'm sure everyone's always asking, okay, so where do you go from here?

Yeah, we have big plans for Boss Babes. So I want to be the world's biggest like community of ambitious women and that's gonna look a lot of different ways. So we're really building out all of our social, our blog and just pushing really hard that side and then continuing to bring out our product, bring like build out product line from our online based products to actual physical products. So we've got our first product launching in December, which is a surprise, but it's gonna be amazing. And then as of next year, we're gonna really build out that line and I want to, I want everyone to know what Boss Babe is. I want if I see any girl on the street to say, hey, do you know what Boss Babe is? And she tells me and I think that's where we're going.

Will you start utilizing more traditional forms of advertising instead of social media? Have you thought about that?

Yeah, it's something that we're thinking about. Our head of marketing, she's incredible. She came from Uber and she's very strong on the brand marketing side, which is just something I never even knew about really. I just was like, let me just try and grow Instagram and see what happens. And she's like, no, we need to be doing all these different things. So we're definitely starting to get into it, but it's a big learning for me because it's so new and so different.

But to achieve your ultimate goal of having every woman know what Boss Babe is, it definitely sounds like it would be a great add on for you.

Yeah, it's needed. We started doing press like a few months ago and that's been super interesting and I'm learning so much about what exists beyond Instagram.

So great. So when you have women, I'm sure you have some people in your community, and it's not even just for women, but when people aren't necessarily an entrepreneur yet, maybe they have ideas of what could be in the future, but they're thinking, how do I set myself up on social media just as me, and how do I do it correctly to start creating a more of a personal brand or, you know, a foray into something that I could potentially be an entrepreneur at some point? How do you approach that?

I think getting really clear on, like, what you want to be known for. So whether you want to be an entrepreneur, whether you don't just get really clear on what you want to be known for and what your values are and what kind of, I call them content pillars that you're going to share because you can't share every little bit of your life. And so for me, my content pillars are, you know, I share a lot of social. I share behind the scenes of business, I share marriage, I share like health and biohacking. And then there's a lot of things that I just don't share. And so I got really clear on what I wanted to share and just kind of create a content around them things consistently. And I think that really helps you build your brand, but just specifically thinking about what you want to be known for. And so one thing I talk about a lot on my social is like, boundaries. I have crazy boundaries. I really believe in work, life balance. Like, I don't want to get to 50, 60 and start looking back on my life thinking, oh, I really wish I'd spent more time with my friends or family. I just don't want that. And so I share that very vocally. And it goes against what a lot of entrepreneurs share online, like hustle, Hustle. You need to work harder. I'm like, no, I want to watch Netflix and like eat a whole bag of chocolate. Like, I want to chill and still build a business. And I. And I want to be that voice for doing business differently. And so that was one of my pillars. And so really thinking through, okay, what do I want to be known for as me? And then building stuff around it. And you'll find it comes naturally.

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So how do you create boundaries? Because so many people struggle with this. I was just at an event last week and people were messaging me, come out here, you need to come out for a meet and greet. And I was trying to get ready for the event. And the old me would feel obligated to go out there because people are supporting you and you want to thank people and be a part of their life and appreciate them. But the new version 2.0 of me said, thank you. I'll be worth your wait. See you in 15 minutes. You know, because I had to take care of myself in order to go out there and do a great job for them. So, I mean, what does that look like, creating boundaries in your world?

I mean, exactly what you've just described, like, being very aware of it. For me, it was getting really clear on what my priorities were. Like, my number one priority is my health. Like, if I don't have my health, I'm dead. No use to anyone when I'm dead. So, like, it sounds really bleak, but it's true. My husband probably wants me to stay here. He's my number one. But it's health. So that's my number one. Second to that is family and friends. Like, of course my marriage super important. And no business is more important than that. Like, that's what really matters to me. And then it's business. And so I think in order of those priorities, and I like, look back at, like each week and I'm like, did I put the time I needed into my health? Like, did I really look after myself? Or did I spend enough time with my family and friends? Did I set those boundaries? And then work is super important to me. Like, it's definitely in the top three, but it's not my entire life. Like, I want my business to be a vehicle for the business, the life I want to live, not me being a vehicle for the life the business is taking on, which I was in when I first started my business. Like, I was hustling, like, I didn't sleep, like it was crazy and I got burned out so many times. But then I really realized what was important to me. So I have those order of priorities and I just, just like, get better at saying no. Which I think, like, you'll know. It's so hard. And sometimes I feel like I'm letting people down, but if I don't feel good, then I'm never gonna do good. And I certainly can't live out my purpose, which is, you know, really impacting women and, and motivating women and really encouraging them to be like, unapologetically ambitious. I can't do that if I'm drained and exhausted and burned out and not loving what I do. And so that comes before, like answering every single DM or every single comment. Like those are things that have very little impact. And I want to spend my time doing things that have bigger impact. So I think it's just that balance. And then within my company, I really believe in leading by example. And I want everyone that works with us to have a good work life balance. And so it's one of our core values. And every single, like, team meeting we have, I remind people of that if I'm seeing them not take care of their health, if I'm seeing them work too much, I point it out. And then I also lead by that. Like I take vacations and I completely switch off and I tell my team, if you need me, I'm not available, so figure it out. And they kind of get used to it.

That's such a refreshing description of a company. Because my time in corporate America, I didn't work for companies like that. It was the antithesis, right? It was, you better get this done. And if you pull an all nighter, you know, this is deadline jobs on you. You, you need to figure it out. And to me, when I hear you talk about how you're creating this business, this community, it's all about passion, purpose, putting yourself first and doing it in a really healthy way. It's funny to me that it sounds so crazy. It's actually sad, right, that we live in this culture that people are more accustomed to being browbeaten by a boss and told just get it done. And you know, and I don't care that you haven't seen your child. So it's really exciting to hear that there are companies out there that want to take care of employees. And leadership by example does exist in a really positive way. I remember when I was younger, probably your age, when I was in a management role, I would be afraid that if I left early, other people would leave early and things. I was in a very different mental state than you are now. It was more of this fear driven awareness that I had that if I'm not there and hands on. It's not going to get done correctly. And it's my tail at the end of this, and I've got to deliver the number, and I led that way. So in my eyes, it was leadership by example. I outworked everyone. But like you said, I mean, you get to this point where I'm years older than you, that now I look back and think of how much I gave up and what I've learned. And I want everyone to understand this. The company is not going to be appreciating you 25 years later and singing your praises. Things are going to change. Companies are bought and sold. Leadership changes occur. People get sick and leave. You know, a million different things can happen in that moment. You feel like it's everything. However, now that I have this hindsight, I gave up vacations, I gave up family time. I gave up time with my baby. You know that, yes, I built great experience, and no one can take that away from you. But when you look back and you say, you know, I probably could have done a great job and taken a couple of vacations, I don't think that the company was going to implode. Right. And it's about, how do we find good people to work with that agree with us and think that same way? And it's really great to hear there are companies like this because I think more and more people are trying to recruit people with that same messaging.

Yeah. And it's. It is crazy that we think this is, like, a wild idea to take vacations, to take time off. And I think the hustle culture is celebrated way more than it should be. Like, why, as humans, do we think that making money or, like, spending midnight in the office is more important than being home snuggled up on the sofa with, like, our family? Like, I don't understand how that happened.

But I think it's a lot of it, for me anyways, comes from that fear or that lack and wondering, oh, gosh, I don't want to get in financial trouble. And I've got this right now. I'm having great ideas right now. I'm young enough right now. I need to lean into this. However, it doesn't pay off. So you mentioned biohacks. What are some of your favorite biohacks? You can share with us on how you keep yourself so healthy.

I love breath work. I think breath work's incredible. Have you done it?

No.

Oh, my God. You need to do it. It's amazing. So you do breath work for, like, an hour, and you feel like an entirely new person. Because sometimes I think we store, like, stress and anxiety and stuff we don't even know that we're storing because we're so used to just taking everything on. And when you do breath awake, it takes everything away. It's incredible. It's phenomenal. And you can do it. Like, you can go to a class and learn how to do it, and you can do it, like, at home by yourself. Like, it's super easy. It costs barely anything. So, like, that's the number one thing I love. So I highly recommend that. My diet is super important to me. Like, I eat really, really clean and I try and eat for, like, good performance. Because for all I don't believe in, like, hustling like crazy. Like, when I am at work, I am so focused and I get so much done, and I wouldn't do that if I ate, like, crap. So I'm really, really specific about that. Like, I eat to have good energy. So that's a big one. Sleep. I love sleep. I have, like, at least eight hours a night. Like, I absolutely love it. I track my sleep with an aura ring. I don't know if you've heard of. Tracks everything. And so it'll tell you how much rem, how much deep sleep, how, how long it took you to fall asleep, if you woke up. It'll track your heart rate, your heart rate variability. And so you can really see trends of, like, if you're stressed or if you're doing well or what a workout does for you. Like, I. I test and track everything, so I love that those are, like, my main ones. Meditation is super important to me. Like, I think just being still and quiet is something that we don't often do enough. And it's free. Like, there's tons, like, tons of biohacks that I love that are more expensive. Like, I have an infrared sauna that I absolutely love, and I try and use every. Every single day. But I think, like, it starts with the free stuff.

Isn't it unbelievable, though, when you start thinking all the good things you can do for yourself and thinking how much time it's gonna take? All I just ran through my mind listening, I'm like, I wanna try that. I wanna try that. And I still need to work out and I still need to go get my son and then I need to get on this plane? I mean, it's so hard to figure out. And it goes back to your boundaries and priorities, you know, what are they? Because it's so simple to let some of those things go And. And it creates a completely different situation for yourself.

Yeah. And just like thinking about, okay, what can I swap? If I'm gonna fit in like a 10 minute meditation, what can I swap? And like, so I didn't check my emails today to like 3pm because I was like, okay, I want to go. I. I threw a party last night for my husband's birthday. And so I woke up this morning to feeling like, really slow. And I'm like, no, I'm gonna get myself right before I even start working or anything because I'm gonna be no good to anyone if my energy is low. I'm just gonna be procrastinating. And so I like, I feel like, okay, If I spend 30 minutes here, I'm gonna gain an hour here. And I try and prioritize it that way.

It's a very good way to look at it. And I definitely gonna try to do that. I'm trying something that's breathing too. I'm gonna check that out.

Yeah, just Google breathwork or like, go to a class. It's incredible. It will literally change your life.

Okay, I'm totally down for that. All right, so you can't get off the show without answering this question. When in your life have you struggled the most with your confidence?

When I went to university. So I came from a background where, like, my family didn't go to university, I didn't have a lot of money, and I went to a really prestigious business school. And everyone there spoke differently. They had all been to private schools. And I remember the first week I was in the toilet cubicle crying my eyes out, calling my boyfriend at the time just like, people like me don't belong here. And I felt like such an imposter. And I had so little confidence. And he gave me the pep talk. I needed that that week. And it literally took me a couple of years to really work on my confidence at uni. I don't know what it was. I just felt so out of place. And I didn't. I totally didn't. By the time I left, I loved it and I had some amazing friends, but it was a big, like, shock to me going there.

What were some of the things that you did that allowed you to start creating confidence?

Well, I started just getting really, really good grades and becoming top of my class. And I think I felt like I had something to prove to myself. And so I just ended up really killing it. So that helped. I did hypnotherapy for, like, confidence and self esteem. It was amazing.

Amazing. I've done it too.

Yeah. That was really, really good for me. But I think mainly it was just like, achieving things that was proving to myself that I could do it. I think I doubted myself a lot and that helped. But I think that's probably not like the healthiest answer because it can be really addicting. Like, it can be an addictive thing. Yeah.

But it's also like what you said that. You said that it's that evidence that you're looking for of achievement which still has shown up for you today and it's helped you today.

Yeah, I definitely have, like, an addiction to achieving things.

It's not a bad addiction. There are worse ones.

Yeah. Yeah. The help of hypnotherapy was great. I still do it now.

It's so good. I actually just did it on the plane on my way out here. Yeah. Once you've been exposed to it and worked with someone, it so simple to just fire it up on your headphones and zone out and wake up just feeling so much better.

Yeah. Because I feel like any kind of personal development work you do, it's never like one and done. It always comes back. But you just get better at dealing with things and it takes you. Maybe in the past it would take you a week and now it takes you a day or whatever. It's never done. So I'm a big believer in keeping it going.

Well, you are keeping Boss Babe going, that is for sure. And I'm so excited to see what you do next. Where can everyone find you, Natalie?

They can find us on instagram@boss babe.ink@ I am Natalie. For my personal or bossbab.com thank you.

So much for being here today and continued success to you.

Thank you for having me.

I hope you love Natalie as much as I do. And I'll tell you, I took her free. If you go to Boss Babe, her handle on Instagram, her company profile page, there is. She did a free training on Instagram growth hack. And I actually did it the other day and it was really, really good. Very interesting. I highly recommend it does not cost anything. Check it out. It's definitely worth, you know, if you want to learn. If you're just interested in knowing a little bit more about how her idea pans out, what her plan and strategy is. You don't have to be huge into Instagram just to be willing to open your mind to learn a little bit about different business models, different business strategies. But I thought it was very, very good. Well done. So check it out. It's free. Okay, so this is interesting. I have some good friends that I haven't seen in years that now listen to the show with us and it makes me so happy to get DMS and messages for them. One of my friends sent me a note and said, hey, I thought I should share the story with you. In keeping with the building confidence theme. I was working on cleaning up my LinkedIn profile last week and realized I did not have any. Any recommendations.

What?

But listening to you, I figured, why not? I should just get some. So I reached out to a few colleagues, one of them being my former CEO. I worked with him for eight years, growing the company, going public, getting a drug approved, and consider him a friend. So he wrote a glowing recommendation, but focused on operations and did not mention the strategy development piece, which is really what separated me apart from everyone else and was really what made me special. At first I was so mad thinking that he did not respect me or respect what I had done. But then I thought, why don't I just ask him to tweak it a little bit for me? So I did ask him. Stay tuned. And this is so good. Well, of course you should ask. Because you know, I was thinking when I saw this note, I'm sure he had no bad intent. I mean, come on. But anyways, I heard back from my friend last night and the CEO tweaked it for her, didn't know that that was of interest to her, and wrote her a glowing recommendation she is so proud of and she is now showcasing on her Recommendation wall on LinkedIn. So if you don't ask for what you want, you do not get. People get what they ask for. Show up, ask for what you want. And if you need to ask for something to be tweaked, ask for that too. People like helping other people. At least nice people do. Okay, so I got this question. I have this bot. I think I've shared this with you before on my website, heathermonahan.com it's like a little head and it's a Drift bot. The company, Drift owns the bot program. And this little head says, hey, can I help you? So someone, a visitor, my site wrote this. Hey, my co workers don't respect me and I'm tired of the snarl face looks and sarcasm from them. But when they're stuck on an issue and need an answer, I am the one they come to. I'm getting really sick of being nice to them when they're mean to me. Okay, here's the thing. People will treat you the way you allow them to so number one, how? I'm sure they don't treat everyone like that, right? So now you need to take ownership of this. No need to get mad. Remember, there is no place for emotion in business. Instead, let's show up as the best version of ourselves to work. That means taking time to get ready to iron your clothes, you know, get your outfits together. Really put that professional, professional best version of yourself forward at work every day. Maybe it means you need some self care and to invest in yourself to allow yourself to feel special. Start practicing gratitude. Start writing down the great things about yourself. Use affirmations if you need to. I am worth more. I am enough. I am confident, whatever it is. But you got to fire yourself up. Play your playlist like I do. Anytime. I'm going into a situation that makes me nervous. Where you feel your best and your strongest. Bring your lavender scent with you to smell right before you walk into the meeting to keep yourself calm and centered. But then at the end of the day, what you need to do is I'd ask some questions. If someone's giving you a dirty look and asking for your help, I would walk up to them and say, excuse me, could I talk to you for a minute, please? That will call these people out. There's nothing wrong with being kind and asking questions. I would ask to speak to someone alone if they were giving you dirty looks in a meeting and when you were alone, I would say, I'm really confused. Did I do something to offend you? I keep seeing you giving me really negative looks and I'm not sure what's wrong. Can you explain to me what's happening? And there's nothing wrong with doing that, right? Because what you're doing is you're calling that villain out. You're letting them know, oh, heck no. This is not going to go on anymore. You don't need to be mean or rude when you do it. You're just asking questions and coming from a place of kindness and curiosity. So now the onus is on that person to explain to you why. Probably what they're gonna say is, oh, I wasn't giving you a dirty look. Really, you know, that's what I would say.

Really?

Because I'm pretty sure I saw it a couple of times. So I'm just confused. Then they're gonna say, no, no, no, that's, you know, my resting face or whatever. Thanks for understanding. I did not mean to give you a dirty look. Well, you've called them out and let them know that's not going to Go on anymore. Now, the next time that person comes and asks you for help with whatever it is they're working on, that's another opportunity to kind of revisit the situation and create those boundaries for yourself, showing that you warrant respect. And maybe it's saying, listen, John, I'm really swamped right now. I understand you need my help. Give me a little bit of time. I've got to continue working on my priorities right now, and I will get to you as soon as I can. Let them know that they're, you know, just because they said their life's on fire and they need you to put the, you know, fire out doesn't mean that you're willing to drop everything. You have priorities, too. You are important. And in fact, you're putting yourself first and you will get to their issues when you can and when you're available. So really respect yourself, invest in yourself, Put you first and create those boundaries. And don't ignore negative behavior. Don't ignore passive aggressive behavior. I did that for a long time with a woman at work, and all it did was it allowed her to keep building strength. And it really. It made me feel worse about myself that I was turning a blind eye. So it's much better to say, hey, did I do something wrong? I feel a sense of negativity coming from you. Is everything okay? You know, that really changes the dynamic, and you don't need to be mean when you do it. So hoping that the visitor to my site was able to do this and able to move forward from this situation. Okay, what else do I have here? Oh, Heather, you're a great role model. Oh, thank you. Do you have any tips to get speaking engagements? My dream is to speak more around the country. I've not found many who are doing this. Can you advise me how to start? All right. I did a whole episode on this. The Kendra hall episode on my podcast literally walks everyone through exactly what you need to do to become a speaker. It took me over a year to figure all this stuff out. Even as you heard today, I'm still figuring this stuff out. So just because you haven't figured it out yet doesn't mean the answers aren't out there. You just have to keep pursuing them. I do have the answers for you. Go ahead. Go back to my main page for creating confidence, and scroll down till you find the Kendra hall episode. That episode has everything that you want to know about the speaking business. And again, just because you don't have the answers yet doesn't mean they're not out there. Just keep searching. And just like Natalie at Boss Babe, she figured out the way to hack Instagram, how to hack this growth. Well, you know what? I didn't know that existed, but now you know it exists. So just because you haven't figured something out yet, it doesn't mean someone else hasn't, or that you're not going to figure it out next. So just keep going, keep asking great questions, and keep showing up here with me every week. I appreciate you so much. Please rate and review my podcast. When you do, send me a screenshot of your review and I buy you my $299 video course as a big thank you. I can't wait to see you next week. Keep creating confidence. I'm doing it with you.