#226: How To Build SEXUAL Chemistry, With Ashley Stahls You Turn Podcast Host

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Hi and welcome back. I'm so glad you're back here with me this week. Okay, so I've talked about this many times. I constantly test and try, rinse and repeat and try to innovate, test and try different things, right? So whether it be in marketing or in different approaches, or in coaching, consulting, in writing or in podcasting, you want to test and try. In any business, you need to innovate. The companies that end up bankrupt, going out of business are the ones that stay stuck in doing business the old way. That's always worked, right? So to that end, I want to try something different today and I need to hear from you. The only way I'm going to know if this works is if you want, let me know. So please, if you like this episode, tag me in the episode. Share it on social media. That's how I know this is working for you. If you don't like it, please shoot me a dm. I'm eathermonahan on all social media. I'll always respond to you. Or you can go to my website, heathermonahan.com I've got tons of free resources there for you too. And shoot me a note and let me know, hey, Heather didn't work, eh? And I will appreciate the feedback and make sure I don't provide episodes like this moving forward. I. I want to provide the content that you want to add value to you, but the only way I'm going to know is if you let me know. So I can't wait to hear from you. All right, so in an effort to try and innovate, I talk a lot about business and I don't talk a lot about more personal relationships. If you've read my book Confidence Creator or Overcome youe Villains, those are two places I definitely have dug into it a lot more, but I haven't really brought it into the podcast much. So I'm interested to know if that's something you want to hear more about, if that's a topic you want to dive into. So a few months ago I did an episode with Gina Devie. She's the author of the book Audacity To Be Queen. I highly suggest you go back and listen to that episode if you haven't heard it yet. We get into this topic around feminine and masculine energy and that's something that I have not known much about my entire life. I definitely am not an expert in relationships, but it was something that had been brought to my attention a few times. Sometimes when people are very successful in business and aren't in their personal lives, it's because they lean more towards their masculine energy. I found out this was the case with me. Now, it doesn't mean that you look masculine on the outside, right? Because some people did say that to me in messages after that episode. That's not what it means, but it means that the way you approach things. And we're gonna get into more of it. But I wasn't being very feminine around my energy. And that was something that, after reading Gina's book and actually after my podcast episode with Kathy Heller, that's another great one for you to listen to. Right? These are people that lean much more into their feminine energy, and I was able to learn from both of them that that was an opportunity for me. And it doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman, Everybody has both feminine and masculine energy. Again, something I'm learning a lot about this year. So check out those two episodes. Kathy Heller or the Gina Devee. They're both really interesting, really good, and will help you, whether you're a man or woman, realize that having feminine energy is critical to success in life, business, and your personal relationships. So I talk a lot about firing the villain in your mind, but I don't talk a lot about fire the villain that might be in your relationship in your bedroom. And maybe you're single. Maybe you are in a relationship that's kind of eroded over time and you're just hanging in there, but you're not really happy. I get it, right? I have been there. I found success in business pretty quickly and when I was pretty young. But the relationship side has not been as easy for me. It's been more elusive. I'm divorced. Then I was engaged, and I just broke off the engagement a couple years ago, and now I'm single. Right. So it's not ideal. So there obviously is something off there, and I really think pointing towards this whole balance of feminine and masculine energy might be part of the problem. Super interesting. I'm so curious about this topic, and I'm interested to hear if you're curious about it too. We all have something that we can learn in and around this, and it's something that I don't think is talked about very much, or at least it hadn't been in the circles I was running in previously.

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Okay, so I definitely have a tendency to get stuck in my masculine energy as I mentioned earlier, and no matter what your gender is, we all need that blend of both feminine and masculine. So today we are going to be doing things a little bit differently as I mentioned, and it's really helpful for me. So I'm wondering if it's going to be helpful for you. Please let me know if you you know, I want to explore what this shift can look like and how I can tweak things to better my life, relationships and personal connections moving forward. So with this in mind, I wanted to share a podcast episode from U Turn Podcast with host Ashley Stahl. Now, Ashley Stahl has been a guest on this show. If you haven't heard her before, you're going to have to go back about a year, but definitely check out her episode. She's great. She just had me on her show this week. I'm on the U Turn Podcast with her as well. She's a great woman who supports other women, really creative, really smart, incredibly successful, and teaches me a lot with this episode that you are about to hear. So I'm actually playing part of her episode from the U Turn Podcast here for you now because for me it's really valuable, really interesting and I think it can add value for you too. So let me know what you think. Here are some of the things that you might get insight on today. Building your physical romantic chemistry, the connection between childhood and attraction, masculine and feminine energy, and both of their importance. And so I definitely want to hear what you think. I want you to hang tight right now, listen to what Ashley has to say and see if this added as much value for you as it did for me. Now next week we'll back to our regular standard operating episodes, but wanted to test and try something different. I hope it adds value for you. I hope it creates confidence in you. I hope it makes you a little bit more curious and keeps you growing on your path for success in business life, personally, relationship or otherwise. Please give me your feedback. I can't wait to hear what you have to think. And here we go right over to Ashley.

Hey friends and welcome to this week's episode of the U Turn Podcast. This is your host, Ashley Stahl I'm. I'm a counterterrorism professional turned career coach, speaker, and Forbes blogger. And I created the U turn podcast because, let's face it, every now and again, we realize that we're living life on autopilot, and it's time to wake up and make that U turn in your life. So prepare to go deep with some of the most transformational people I know here to help you grow and upgrade your mindset, whether it's in work or love. Also, be sure to stick around for the end of every episode, where I'm going to reflect on the conversation and and offer actionable coaching insights to have a real impact on your life. In the meantime, we've opened up access to three free E courses on u turnpodcast.com so head on over there if you want to land a new job you love, find your purpose, or launch your dream business. All of these courses are totally free.

All you got to do is head.

On over to u turnpodcast.com that's y o u t u r n podcast.com now let's get started with with this week's guest.

So many people are willing to blame their partners for the lack of attraction rather than take 100% responsibility. And it's my personal pet peeve because I see it all the time. And I'm not saying you stay, but I'm saying that you bring one. If each of us looked at our relationships and said, you know what? I'm 100% responsible for the state of our relationship. I'm wearing my sweats to bed. I'm giving him nothing but masculine energy. I'm criticizing him behind his back. I'm leaking sexual energy to other men. You know what I mean? I'm doing, you know, take a really strong inventory of where you. Of how you're showing up in the relationship before. You're just willing to say, like, oh, it's over. You know, he's not the man for me. And fix those things first. And see, you see what it is that you. Where are you withholding? I'm talking to women now again. You know, where are you withholding your heart?

Hey, everybody, it's Ash here, and I have a really interesting and special guest for you. I know that we've talked a lot about career, love, dating, all the things. But what we haven't gone deep on is sex and sexual chemistry. And so I'm really excited to have John Weiland here. He is a teacher, a speaker, and a writer, and he specializes in intimacy and sexuality, specifically. Yogic sex, which we can talk about, and also men's embodied spiritual practice. So he leads men's groups around the world, co ed workshops and so much more. So I figured who better to have here than John to talk to you about how to create sexual chemistry? I know some of you guys, my boss, babe, friends, you guys are making money and pushing really hard in your career and then sometimes that creates some sort of chemistry gap between you and your man or vice versa. And I'm kind of curious to just ask all of these questions and also get into his style for how to create sexual chemistry. So, John, thank you so much for making the time.

You're very welcome, Ashley. Glad to be here.

Yeah.

I'm so curious to hear, you know, what got you interested in this because I know that usually this sort of work, you have a personal draw. So I'm curious what your story is for everybody listening.

Yeah. Well, my first experiment was on myself. And you know, I like a lot of men, I was in a marriage in my mid-30s and I had done everything that I, you know, that society had taught me to do. I was, you know, I made good money, we had a nice house in west la, I had a child and you know, we were, you know, pillars in our community. And so I had on the outside what looked like a beautiful marriage. And yet we couldn't seem to make each other happy. And so I realized that this kind of myth of the good husband that I call it now is really just, it is that it's a myth and it actually turns out to be more of a starting point for men now with the modern woman than it used to be. Right. 50 years ago, that was what you needed. You're a good man, you support her and her dreams, you're a good father, you make money and, you know, that's everything that you need to be a good husband. Well, today it's, it's much different to be a, to lead as a man in relationship takes a lot more than just those things. And so I started there and I realized I had not, you know, nobody taught me how to create deep intimacy or how to sustain, you know, sexual, you know, sexual chemistry in a, in a relationship and how to have a long term relationship. So I sought out teachers. One teacher in particular, a man named David Data. And I started studying with him about 12 years ago and have since, you know, been studying with him ever since. And now I teach my own work and, you know, kind of try to help as many people as I can.

Beautiful. And you know, I Have a friend who is very close to me, and she's been coaching with David for a really long time as well. And I don't know if you know, Jessica Winterstern.

Sounds familiar, but I would probably know her by face, you know, in the workshops that I assist in. You know, we don't know each other's names and backgrounds a whole bunch, but okay, yeah.

Probably know if I saw some of the most magical things that have come out of her mouth. She's learned through her mentorship with David. And so I'm sure that you have so much that you've learned from him and also just your own version of how you look at things. And I'm curious, kind of starting on this topic of sexual chemistry. I know some people are probably listening right now, whether they're, you know, in the car, wherever they are, and they're thinking to themselves, like, I don't want to have sex with my partner anymore. And they're scared. It's a scary feeling because it's like, is this over? I'm curious to understand from your standpoint, like, is it one of those things you think that it's there or it's not? And what is the spark? Because I know we kind of talked about that before we started recording. A lot of women look, you know, especially I only know women because I am one. So a lot of my girlfriends share with me that that's what they look for. They want to know that there's an instant spark. So I'm curious what your feedback is for people who are in a relationship and they had that or they didn't, or they're dating.

Well, I like the idea of starting from the place of I don't want to have sex anymore. And usually when. When I see that, it's because there are unspoken and unshared resentments between the two partners. Usually if there's love, right, and there has been a spark, what happens is the spark gets dimmed by prolonged and unprocessed resentments, expectations. The classic problem is that couples are making each other wrong for what they think and feel. And it's really hard to get turned on when you don't feel safe to express what you think and feel without being made wrong by your partner. So that's usually a big problem when someone has hit that space. And sometimes I find that just creating a container to clear those resentments and clear those things that might have been held onto for years, possibly that will bring back a lot of intimacy and a lot of sexual desire. Sometimes it's More than that, sometimes it's that. And there's the loss of what I would call sexual polarity. And the sexual polarity comes when one person is primarily in their feminine. And this is. And one person is in their masculine. And this is not necessarily gender based. Like the man could be the feminine partner and the woman could be the masculine partner. Although most women are feminine in their essence and most men are masculine in their essence or same sex couples, that, that also happens. You know, sexual polarity works the same way. One is, one is in receptive mode, one is in penetrative mode. And so there's a, there's a, there's a lack of sexual polarity that happens over the course of time as couples. You know, the great joke is, you know, they're in their sweats. They're both in their sweats watching tv. Well, that creates. If you imagine like two magnets rubbing together, you know, they work, you know, maybe they work together, they work at home together, they're spending a lot of time together or when they come together, there's no attempt at creating this kind of polarity. And after a while, they're like two magnets that rub together and they will begin to repel. And so those, usually those two things are when I deal with them, because I coach a lot of couples as well, usually when I take care of those two things, spark returns or the problems that are so. The differences that are so underlying get unearthed and it becomes clear that they need to separate or there's some things that they need to change. So that gives you a pretty good overview of what I see when somebody hits the. That I don't want to have sex with my partner anymore.

You know, I also think, like, what about just this common question of it's just not there? Like, for example, you know, when I'm in a dating phase, it's like, friends are like, how about him? And I'm like, I don't think I could do that. So what is that about? And is it something that, you know, there's a slow burn where suddenly something changes. Like, what are your thoughts on sexual attraction?

Yeah, well, sexual attraction, I mean, it's been proven now that our greatest attraction, right, the love at first sight thunderbolt kind of thing usually happens when we find somebody who fits our childhood programming. And there's a great book on this called Getting the Love youe Want by the people who started Imago Therapy, Harvl Hendricks and his wife. And it talks a lot about that, about how the thing that we did not get as children is the thing that we will spend our life trying to find. So whether it's physical affection or praise or unconditional love or safety, we will, you know, the lack of getting those things creates sort of a hole in us. And we will look for somebody who matches that blueprint. And when we find them, sparks fly. So oftentimes sexual attraction is much more about, especially at the beginning, is much more about being what the imago people call an imago match than it is true sexual chemistry.

So interesting.

And most people don't want to, most people don't want to hear that. Most people want to hear oh, my soulmate or not my soulmate or if there's no spark, then he can't be my soulmate. Well, more often than not, the people that are probably best for you are people that you wouldn't actually have that initial spark with. But again, most people, most people don't want to hear that.

No, they don't. They don't.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, so kind of going on that note, you know, before we get into creating sexual chemistry, I'm curious to understand, like what are some healthy markers for people to look out for whether they're dating or in a relationship for somebody that is, I mean, who are we to say who's good for you and who's not, but somebody who feels like they're healthy for them?

Well, I think it's important that we get clear on what we want. Right, like what we really want. And so, you know, this whole list that I see people come up with sometimes, you know, it's great, but it doesn't, you know, usually within that list there are two or three things that are the most important things. Now for example, with women, what I hear a lot when women get really clear on what it is they want normally it's they want a man who is conscious and present and able to lead them someplace they can't lead themselves. Now that man may not be, you know, their best friend, may not want to go shopping, may not want to, may not be, may not fit a lot of the other things that you see on these lists sometimes. And because if what I hear from a lot of women is that I want a highly masculine man. Well, highly masculine man is very focused on purpose and single mindedly focused. And if she wants a masculine man, he may not fit all of the other things, but he might fit the two most important things really well. And so this idea of finding the right person starts with the practice of getting super clear on what do you Need. What do you need in your deepest sexual intimacy? What are you craving in your deepest sexual intimacy? And for men, for example, what men oftentimes aren't clear on is that they're craving a certain kind of energy or they're craving. What the masculine craves from the feminine sexually is energy in all of its forms. Energy, responsiveness, devotion, sexual energy, playfulness, joy. All of those things make a woman highly attractive. What the feminine is craving from the masculine is the ability to be led. Well, to be felt deeply, to be held deeply, you know, strongly. To be. You know, I'll use the word penetrated because that's really penetrated with consciousness. To be, you know, they're looking for someone who's deeper than them. And, and those things, once you're super clear on those things, then, you know, attracting the right partner or at least setting your sights on the right partner get a little more clear.

Okay, that's helpful. And you know, what about the woman right now who's driving? And, you know, we'd kind of talked about how there's resentments that come up when they don't want to have sex anymore with their partner. What's the point of no return where it's like, I, I don't think that our relationship, the dynamic is so deeply entrenched. There's something, there's nothing we can do. Or is there such a thing? Do you think that everything is figureoutable?

Yeah. No, no. There, there are people. Points of no return, but most people think that they're. They are. And the, the, the benchmark that I like to use is. So for. If you're at a place where you don't want to have sex with your partner, there's, there's some things that you should work on before you actually end the relationship. Because if you don't, you're just going to find another person who you will eventually end up in the same spot. Because we continue to repeat these karmic lessons with, with our partners again and again. The grass is always greener piece does not. Is not necessarily true. So in fact, it's not true. If we don't clean up the stuff that we, if we don't clean up what's wrong in our current relationship, donuts to dollars, we're going to bring it to our next one. So my suggestion for the woman driving who says, I just don't want to sleep with my partner, well, ask yourself the question, why don't I trust him? What is it that I don't trust about this man? And then have A real conversation with him and say, look, I'm finding myself unattracted to you sexually, or I'm finding myself wanting to leave, and it's because I don't trust you here. You're not living your deepest purpose. You are not taking care of your body. You're not a man of your word. And literally have a super clear conversation with why they don't trust their partner and see how he responds, Right? And I want, you know, there's a certain way to frame it, and that way is what I would need from you in order for me to trust you with my life, my heart, my body, to want to surrender to you sexually. I would need you to pop up, right? And then there's a list of things. And usually when a woman, and I'm speaking specifically to the feminine here. When a woman loses sexual attraction in a man, it's because she loses trust in him as a man and as a. As someone who can lead her somewhere. When a man loses sexual attraction, it's because he's not receiving the energy that he craves from his feminine partner normally. And I'm speaking very hetero. This is very hetero. So let me just say that.

Yeah, yeah, fair disclaimer. I mean, the majority of my audience is heterosexual. I've done some serving. And I'm curious to understand from you. I love what you said about trust. I haven't heard that necessarily before, but it makes a lot of sense to me. I'm also kind of curious, just as we're talking about this for, from a standpoint of attraction and fixing things. What are some things that you might hear somebody say out of their mouth that you're like, oh, that's not, not fixable.

I have. Well, physical violence is usually not physical. You know, that's usually a red flag. Get the hell out. Everything else normally is fixable. I mean, you know, it's. It's really. So many people are willing to blame their partners for the lack of attraction rather than take 100% responsibility. And it's my personal pet peeve, because I see it all the time. And I'm not saying you stay, but I'm saying that you bring one. If each of us looked at our relationships and said, you know what? I'm 100% responsible for the state of our relationship. I'm wearing my sweats to bed. I'm giving him nothing but masculine energy. I'm criticizing him behind his back. I'm leaking sexual energy to other men. You know what I mean? I'm doing Take a really strong inventory of how you're showing up in the relationship before you're just willing to say like, oh, it's over, you know, he's not the man for me. And fix those things first. And see, you see what it is that you. Where are you withholding? I'm talking to women now again. You know, where are you withholding your heart? Like if he's on the phone most of the time and you're angry, annoyed and, or heartbroken by his lack of consciousness and presence, then are you sharing that with him or are you just kind of holding onto it and then at the end of the night, you know, calling him an asshole or barking at him? I mean, all of those things with, I mean, I work with a lot of women and teasing those things apart takes some time, some awareness and some deep personal reflection. And same for the men. Like, you know, I run a year long men's program and a lot of what we're talking about is what, you know, where am I abdicating leadership to her? Where am I letting her lead? Where am I forcing her to lead?

Powerful.

Yeah. And unless men take that, take that inventory and really take a hard look at where am I not trustable? Where do other men not trust me? Where am I kind of fooling myself? Where am I full of shit? Where am I, where am I addicted? Where am I numbing myself? This is a big problem with men. Where am I numbing myself so that I'm showing up numb most of the time? Am I addicted to porn, to alcohol, to, you know, to work, to something? Yeah, that, my phone, that makes me numb. And if men aren't willing to look at that first, then they have no idea whether their relationship is and they're gonna bring that to the next relationship, Right? So unless you've actually done the to take 100% responsibility for where your relationship is, especially the men, then I think that leaving prematurely is a problem. Now to answer your question, if both partners have done that, if you've done the work to really see about recreating sexual polarity and recreating intimacy and really owning your truths and taking care of your own business, so to speak, if you've done all that for six months or so, or a year, six months or a year, and nothing has changed, things are just as horrible as six months ago, then maybe it's time to leave. But most people won't do that. And the problem that I see is again, that they bring it to their next relationship. Now, on the positive side, if they do that. Like, if, for example, let's say you said you have a lot of. Would you call them boss babes?

Yeah, they are. One of my best friends founded boss babes. So they're like. They are the boss babes.

Okay, good. Yes. Yeah, yeah. So girl bosses, right? And so if a woman is in that energy all day long, and then she doesn't transition when she gets home, and so she's in her masculine. She's kind of directing him when she gets home, or still wearing that cloak of kind of masculine leadership, and she doesn't take a bath or move her body or do something to kind of soften, and she wonders why he doesn't want to have sex. You know, that's an area to start. Right. And becoming more and more fluid. So that, especially for women, moving from the workforce into, you know, the love space requires a lot more fluidity and the ability to move between your feminine and your masculine quite artfully. And that's something that a lot of women are learning. But that's a big reason that sexual attraction will die.

You know, I love this because, number one, this has happened to me. Like, I was with somebody for five years. I called off our wedding, and as I'm listening to you, it didn't feel workable like, there. But I do see a lot of areas where I lost trust. And it was just so many years, and, like, I don't know, it was like a happiness for me to throw in the towel, not because I didn't love the person, but because I was just. I didn't want to, like, fight for the relationship anymore. And I learned so much about myself. We change so much as we get older. And so I'm curious also to understand from you because one of the dynamics that we had in play, I've noticed with a friend of mine, and this is kind of a loaded situation. So I'm curious what we can look at here for everybody listening. She's a friend. Not a super close friend, but she's a pretty big public figure. And she had a really good guy, and she was making the money, and it really bothered her. She wouldn't admit it until she eventually did. And it ended up evolving into her wanting to leave him for, like, the CEO, you know, like the powerful CEO type. And not only did she do that, but she made sure that she was, like, found one before she even left him.

Yeah, that happens a lot with women.

Yeah.

I really. I mean, I hate to sound like I have judgment, because to me, like, loyalty is such a thing. But I also know that people are human. And so I'm curious what your thoughts are on that dynamic where it's like, I'm making the money and I'm performing better than him, and what you see happen there, what that's really about. And then also, like, why do people cheat? Because to me, I kept saying to her, just let him know that you don't want to be together anymore. And in some words or another, her response was, well, I want to find somebody first. And she didn't say it that transparently, but that was what I gathered, and that's what happened. And the irony is that the person she found ended up breaking up with her just weeks into it, saying, you're not nurturing enough, which I thought was really interesting. So I'm curious to kind of unpack this entire dynamic because I think there's so many pieces of it that so many people listening can relate to.

Yeah, well, let me start with why people cheat. It's the same thing I said about why you lose sexual interest. So if a man is with a woman who's not bringing him energy, which to a masculine body is nourishment. And the more on purpose a man is, the more energy he craves. So if you. Now, if you're with a guy who is not doing a lot, not really living a big life and not focusing his energy fully on something that really matters to him, his mission, then he doesn't need as much energy. But if a man is on mission, he needs a lot of energy. Sexual energy, naughty energy, flirty energy, playful energy, devotional energy. And if a man's not receiving that energy from a particular woman, he'll think, oh, I need another woman that's going to bring me that energy. And so that's why, you know, the classic example is, you know, is men, you know, you know, falling in love with their yoga instructor. Or in the. In the 50s, it was their secretary. Right, because the secretary was devotional. Right? The secretary, you know, the secretary brought devotion. And so the. The. But the classic example is it's just basically they need energy. And the reason a woman cheats is because she feels that she's not being led someplace that she can't lead herself. And if that happens, like in the. In the. In the example of your friend, you know, she probably felt that he wasn't able to lead her someplace deep. And I imagine that it wasn't really about the money. I imagine that it was about his capacity to lead her someplace. Now, for example, if he was writing a book on something that really mattered in the world. And his purpose was really clean and clear and he was a man who was in his body and had impeccable integrity and, and the capacity to be really present and take her someplace deep sexually. The money would not have mattered. And if it still, and if it still did, then that's more her shallowness than anything. Because again, it's one of those things of. I imagine if you asked her what really matters in a relationship, what do you really want from the man who you love? I doubt it's money. It's more the capacity to lead her someplace deep into her heart and into her pleasure that she can't take herself. Yeah, most women don't even realize that that's what's missing or that's what they're yearning for. Once they do, then they can get some clarity on what kind of man might bring them there.

Beautiful. And you know, it's interesting because she's since gone on to, to she. I think she's going through a lot of growth, but I think I relate her to a lot of people and you know, I, I'm noticing that she just fell for somebody new who kind of has similar wounding to her. So I thought, kind of also just talking about dovetailing patterns, if you could share about that because now, you know, I met a guy, I'm friends with him and he, you know, he, he constantly wants to go hard and attract women and win them over and then he can't hold the connection. So his pattern is that he like kind of, I guess what people would call a womanizer. Right. And he told me, he confided in me that I tend to do this and I'm like okay, well you got to look at that. And, and funny enough he told me we should date and I'm like, eh, you're about 200 coaching sessions away from that maybe. And just joking with him, you know, he's a light hearted soul. But he ended up dating her and one of her things is like not really looking at situations, a lot of avoidance. So I'm curious what happens when two people. What is going on and why is it that. And how can we raise the awareness for the listeners right now of this tendency for two people to attract to each other that have the same wounds or that they fit?

I don't think they have the same. I don't know if they have the same wounds. They might be similar or that they.

Fit in some way is kind of.

What I was trying to say.

Yeah, they fit well, that's the whole imago match piece. I mean, you know, if your listeners want to read getting the love you want, it'll lay it out there with like, pain, painstaking clarity. And, you know, so, yeah, we're going to attract people who are going to wound us in the same way that we were wounded as children because that's what we learned love is. We learned that love is leaving us in a certain way, neglecting us in a certain way, abandoning us in a certain way, abusing us in a certain way. And we learn to attract people like that. Or if we don't attract people like that, we will make them. We will literally push them into the position where they do the thing that we don't want them to do, or we say we don't want them to do, consciously don't want them to do. And so this idea of, look, we all do it, even those of us who are quote, unquote, relationship experts do it. It's kind of. They've proven It now, over 60 years of studying it. You almost can't help it. Yeah, you're going to attract somebody. The difference is that if you're conscious of it, then you can begin to heal it and make art from it and make it a really beautiful experience and actually, like, become a healing force for each other's wounds. Rather than rewound each other. People who are unconscious in this area will continually rewound each other in the same way that they were wounded when they were young. People who are not conscious, who are conscious in this area will begin to become healing forces for those wounds. And that's where you see some really beautiful relating going on.

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I know that we're getting into sexual chemistry and I've like literally gone on five tangents with you because you're so interesting. So I'm curious, kind of for everybody listening who has kind of listened to you and thought, yeah, I don't trust my partner because of this or I don't trust that guy that I'm dating because of that and maybe that's why I don't feel like that sexual chemistry or connection? So I'm curious, like what are some what's a starting point for someone? STEP 1 When it comes to creating or reigniting sexual chemistry?

Well, depending on I think the first part is to get clear on your essence and then learn how to embody your essence. So if you are a feminine identified Human, your essence is love and energy. That's your essence. The feminine in all of us is driven by the desire for love. The masculine in all of us is driven by the desire for freedom. Now, freedom for the masculine takes the form of making a ton of money or doing a project that, you know, that is, you know, that liberates the world, or writing the book or making the film, or sexual freedom, having lots of partners. The feminine in us is wanting love. The masculine in us is wanting freedom. If you want to create the deepest, most sustainable sexual chemistry with your partner, it's going to require, if you're a masculine partner. And this is going to sound a little woo woo, but this is kind of the ancient Chinese secret, so to speak. You are going to have to learn to embody the deepest part of you. Your masculine essence is the part of you that never changes. So you have a part of you, I have a part of you that is deep and unchanging and infinite. You know what I'm saying? Right. The ability to be that, to embody that, to literally, you know, show that through my body is called presence. So the ability to be present and be conscious is kind of a, is a masculine currency. Sexual currency. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Okay. The feminine sexual currency, which a feminine being would want to cultivate is pleasure in her body and yearning in her heart. So if she wants to be, if she. I mean, it's kind of irresistible for, for a man to feel the part of you that is yearning to be loved, ravished, penetrated, you know, taken someplace deep sexually and feel pleasure in your body. Those two things, if you put them together as a, as a feminine being, literally are magnetic. Just like consciousness and presence. Right, and groundedness are magnetic for a feminine partner to a masculine being. So the ability to create and sustain sexual chemistry starts with that. I mean, there's a lot more to it. We could not get into it in a single podcast, but it's a personal practice. My teacher calls it a yoga or an art that we can develop like these. The myth of chemistry is that it just happens or it doesn't. That's bullshit. Like, I've worked with couples who are together 20 years, 25 years, who learn to do a few things for each other and boom, like they're. Not only do they have all the history and trust and love that they had in their relationship, but now you add sexual polarity to that, and they have a really deep, beautiful sort of reawakening.

Wow, I love that. Okay, so kind of before we started recording like, just talking about, like, step one for creating sexual chemistry. Being, training yourself to conduct more love through the body. So that's like femininity, Right? You were saying, like, the feminine wants love and the masculine wants freedom. This makes me want to ask you about polyamory, because can I say a little more.

Can I say just a little bit more about that one concept? So. So the masculine. If I'm a masculine person, which I am, then I experience pleasure through your body and yearning through your heart as love. So your ability to conduct those two things through your body. There's more, but let's just start with those two. Those two things through your body. Devotion is another big one. Right through your body occurs to me as love. So that's what I mean by learn to conduct more love through your body. And then if you're a feminine being, then my conscious, grounded presence occurs to you as love. Would you say that's true for you as a woman?

Definitely, yeah.

So the personal practice to be able to cultivate those things is the learning to conduct more love through your body.

And what does that really look like? Like, what is someone who, if you look at them, you say, oh, wow, they've really learned how to conduct love through their body. Like, what is an example of somebody that would look like that?

Well, you can see, I mean, we all know, like, I'm sure, you know, a man, like, you know, who walks into a room and he's been a meditator for years, and he's, you know, he's in his body. He breathes deeply, not, you know, shallowly like most men do. He's, you know, he's. You can feel that it's not just a state that he's in for a moment, but it's a trait he's cultivated for years. He walks into the room and you can feel like, wow, that's a deep man.

Yeah.

Or that's a conscious man, or that's a presence man. You know, guys like that, you've seen them, right? They're hot.

Yeah.

Yeah, they're hot. And so that trait development takes practice. You know, just like a martial artist just to become like a really deep martial artist or. Or a beautiful dancer. Right. Takes practice. So. So you can tell you, we just feel these people. We end up paying them a lot of money as entertainers, right. Or we. We end up really wanting to be around them because they're so rare. And. But. But what we don't realize is that those traits can be trained and we can actually. And this is Basically, what I do for a living is I teach people these skill sets so that they can bring these things to their relationship and create a deeper experience. So, yeah, that. It's. It's one of those things like you kind of know, radiant. A radiant woman when you see it. And all radiance means is that she's conducting energy through her body. She's conduct. That's what radiance is. So, you know, the ability to conduct energy through your body, the ability to reveal your heart is a huge feminine practice. To reveal the truth of your heart. To be vulnerable, to be. To be, you know, to be devotional, to be, you know, and men have it too. But, but. But for a woman who's a feminine being and she wants to attract a masculine man, that's crucial to develop those things. And when people do, they're just very attractive.

The world is your sexual oyster at.

That point, so to speak. Yeah. Really? Yeah.

And kind of looking at polyamory, and I know those of you listening, they might not even know what polyamory is. I'm curious what this looks like, because when you talk about the masculine wanting freedom, and maybe they want to want sexual free freedom like they want. They don't want to commit to one person for the rest of life or a woman who wants sexual freedom. So I'm curious to understand what we can share with everyone about polyamory and how this plays into feminine energy, masculine energy, and polarity.

Okay, well, it's. It's a loaded topic, but I'll. I'll give my best. And it may piss some of your listeners off, but normally polyamory was a masculine created, you know, practice. Right. And normally it was because men were using multiple women who had different energies to fill the void of sexual desire. So I said the masculine craves. Craves lots of energy. Well, you know, no better way to get a lot of energy than to have a lot of different kinds of women.

Right?

And. And. And most of the time when you see polyamory, you know, when you see polyamory working, it's because there's. There's such a beautiful container around it so that people can work through the emotional traumas that come up. I don't think. I think most polyamory is mass when it's. It's. It's driven by the masculine, and it doesn't necessarily serve a woman who's in her feminine. A woman who's in her feminine, or a man for that matter, wants to be filled with consciousness, wants to be filled with, you Know, attention, awareness. Right. Consciousness is just another word for attention. Right. And depth and presence. And a woman who is looking for multiple male partners is usually dissatisfied with her primary partner and thinks that other partners will fill that void when she finds a man who really does fill that void. What I've seen is that she doesn't want to be polyamorous anymore. That she, you know, she's like, okay, like, that's the conscious. That's the texture of consciousness that I've been looking for my whole life, and I don't want to be polyamorous anymore. So it's a weird. It's actually worked out to be quite a weird dynamic that I've seen. I don't see it work very well very often because there's a lot of shadow behind it. You know, there's a lot of sexual shadow. And I know we don't have time to get into that, but that's just my take on polyamory.

Yeah. Well, and if you ever want to just do a victory lap on the U Turn podcast, I would love to talk about sexual shadows. That's so interesting. And I feel like my soul, like, everybody's probably listening, thinking, well, I wonder what. Mine is so really interesting. And another step you'd kind of talked about to create sexual chemistry. And before we even get into that, I have a friend, you know, who is with a really wonderful guy. He's polyamorous. She isn't. She's so in love with him. She is opening her mind. What is your thought on. On that kind of a dynamic where maybe somebody falls in love with someone who has a significant sexual preference that they haven't considered, or maybe they're not comfortable with and they don't even know whether they're comfortable with it or not.

Yeah. My guess is that she won't get caught. She won't be comfortable with it for long.

Okay.

And, yeah, my guess is that in six months after, you know, he's come home from a few experiences and she can feel these other women, it will break her heart.

Okay, that's interesting.

And, yeah, and a lot of women, like I said, when a woman feels deeply known, seen, I mean, you know, and. And led someplace very deep sexually, she will do almost anything for that kind of love. And oftentimes that includes agreeing to things that she's not necessarily into. And a lot of men, quite frankly, will. And I see this in a lot of quote unquote conscious men, they will. They will use polyamory. They will use polyamory as a And this is my pet peeve, right? They. They actually use it as a way to, you know, to fill sexual hunger at the expense of their feminine partners. And they basically bludgeon the feminine partner, saying, oh, you're not, you know, this is not spirit. You know, you're not practicing enough or you're not being spiritual enough or you're not trusting love enough or. I mean, there's a whole kind of language that a lot of guys use, and I kind of think it's gross, to be honest.

Yeah.

Not all.

I love how candid you are.

Yeah, some guys are. Some guys do it well. I have a couple students who are polyamorous, and they do it extremely well. And there's. They hold the container super tightly. They hold their partner super tightly. There's really great rules around it all. There's, you know, there's a lot of space to hold the heartbreak as it inevitably comes up. You know, if she's madly in love with this guy and he's sleeping with other women, he's got to hold her heartbreak for a week or so afterwards. And the question that I would ask men who want to engage in this is, is it serving anybody but you really?

Well, I'm sure that there would be a lot of arguments around, like, the extra energy and what they learn or the growth I'm imagining, but, gosh, I wouldn't be familiar with it as such a monogamous person right now. Now looking to find the love of my life.

Yeah, I just. I just call bullshit on a lot of it because a lot of the times they use that as a spiritual weapon, like, oh, but it's growth to be. You know what I mean? And. And I just don't. I don't necessarily see that, that, that anybody. I just think that people are re. Wounded. Yeah. And she'll. Now, your friend may have abandonment wounds from her childhood, and so she chooses a guy to go back to. And I don't know if this is true or not, but I'm just putting it out there. So she chooses a guy who's going to abandon her, and that's. That's what love is to her nervous system. And, you know, anyway, so that's. That's my take on polyamory. And like I said, your polyamorous listeners are probably going to send me hate mail. But, you know, that's okay.

It's fine. I used to. My first internship, I used to work in counterterrorism. Jean. And my first internship was opening Arnold Schwarzenegger's mail during the time of anthrax as an intern and I am like all good with the hate mail. Like I've gotten plenty whether it's addressed to me or not. So no problem being polarizing. Pun intended for sexual polarity.

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Okay, so those of you listening, you're taking notes, I know you are. You guys tell me you have been, which is so great. And so number one, just training yourself to conduct more love through the body, which as you said, John, that's something that is so much more more than just a podcast, but the concept of relaxing into your loving essence. If you're wanting to step into your feminine energy, I would say I don't want to butcher the way that you would, you know, summarize that. And then second, learning to become resonant. Tell me about this.

Well, sexual intimacy has two pillars. The first is the intimacy piece and the second is the sexual clarity piece. And that's why when someone says I don't want to sleep with my partner, oftentimes the intimacy piece is all fucked up, right? They don't trust them. They don't trust them to be. To honor their feelings, right? They don't trust them to honor what they think and feel as valid. And so what that does is create separation. Intimacy is a recognition of sameness. And the sameness happens when you, you know, we've all had the experience, or many of us have the experience of looking into another's eyes and feeling, you know, I'm human. You're human. You know, I have a soul. You have a soul. And that experience is very deep and very beautiful. It's not necessarily sexy, though, but it's. It's deep. And you can. It can happen with you and a baby. It can happen with you and a pet. Um, it could happen with any, you know, any. With you and a tree, for Christ's sake. I've had some moments with trees where I just like. Right. And so the feeling of the deep feeling into and of another is intimacy. It's kind of a same. It's kind of a recognition of sameness. Well, sexual polarity is the exact opposite. Like, I am conscious presence, you are pleasure and love. And when we come together, we. There's. There's an energetic or magnetic pole because I'm animating my masculine as deeply as possible. You're animating your feminine. I am structure. You are energy. I am consciousness. You are love. I am nothingness. You are everything. You know, I am death, you are life. I mean, you know, you can. You can. It's yin and yang. You know, this is not new. This has been, you know, in ancient. This has been, you know, part of, like an ancient theory for, you know, thousands, if not more, tens of thousands of years.

Okay. And when you. Number three, you said, is animating difference when it comes to creating sexual chemistry. And I. I find this really interesting because I know a lot of listeners here might not know your. Your approach to or your mindset on what feminine energy is. Because anybody listening, you know, to me, my belief is the trademark of an evolved soul as someone who can walk in all of the energies.

Right.

Feminine energy, of course. So I'm curious what your take is when it comes to animating difference. What does that mean? And how can we expand on these energies for everybody to grasp them a little bit more?

Yeah, well, I love. I love this idea of the evolved soul has. Is able to, you know, own their masculine, own their feminine. I mean, I teach a lot of men to own their feminine in very specific ways. And so let's say you have an Evolved soul who does has both. And the evolved soul is a woman, and her essence is feminine. Like, at her core, she's feminine. Well, if she wants to create sexual polarity as a gift or as a way to create kind of a sacred sexual experience, she would animate the part of herself she would amplify and transmit. So femininity and masculinity are just transmissions of energy, right? They're just transmissions of energy. And so to be a feminine partner means that I'm going to feel deeply into my heart, into the place of me that is love. I'm going to cultivate pleasure in my body, and I'm going to transmit as deeply as I can to my partner. And then the masculine partner would be, okay, I'm going to. I'm going to connect to the part of me that is deep and infinite. I'm going to deepen my breath, I'm going to ground my body, and I'm going to transmit that to my partner as a gift. And when two partners do that, then you have a deep sexual experience and a shit ton of attraction. I mean, it's just, you know, it's. It's, it's. It doesn't take once, you know, talking about it, it sounds sort of etherical, but when you see it, you're like, oh, yeah, right. Like this dude, right? Who's the dude? You know, I'm trying to think of a guy that would really. That really qualifies as someone you would consider kind of a deep, you know, a deep masculine presence. If you look at him, you'll see all the traits that I just outlined. And the same with someone who's really, you know, beautiful, radiant, sexy, feminine presence, you'll see all the traits that I just talked about.

Yeah. Yeah. Actually, my. One of my closest friends, Alyssa Nobriga, her husband Emilio, is like a deep, beautiful, masculine, conscious presence. And all of the women and their husbands, like, all the girls in my group of friends, they're like, why don't you talk to Emilio? Because he's just such a beautiful, integrated, present soul, and he notices everything. He's so attractive. I went to Burning man with them, and I was learning how to ride a bike, which is so embarrassing that I've never learned how to ride a bike until Burning Man. But he noticed every time I would wince back, like I was scared that a bike flew at me and I couldn't, you know, and he's just so attuned. And so maybe a good invitation for anybody listening is to kind of look and see like where in your world does that kind of man exist to model after or to pay attention to that? John, this has been amazing.

Men's groups, women's groups are great places to go, right? I mean, this is why I'm such a big fan of both. Right. If you want to animate more of your feminine, spend time in a woman's group that's dedicated to that. If you want to animate your masculine, spend more time in a men's group that is dedicated to deep practice and deep experience.

This has been so beautiful. I'm so curious where everybody can learn from you what you have going on for everybody listening.

Well, they can hit my website and I have, I have. My women's program is sold out. My men's program is almost sold out. And that starts in late April. There's a, I have a few spots left for men in a co ed program that's, you know, that's eight months long that I teach with Kendra Kunoff that talks, that takes a lot of what we're talking about and actually puts it into practice. So I have a few spots for that. That's called the Relational Relationship Salon. And then I have a number of workshops going on over the next year and all that stuff is listed on my website. So johnwinland.com and they can get all the information they need.

Oh, thank you so much for your time. This has been so wonderful.

Good. Thank you, Ashley. It's my pleasure.

Hey guys, it's Ash. I don't even know what I'm going to talk to you about on this post episode conversation because John just threw it down so hardcore that I'm nearly speechless, which, you know, God knows is like a miracle from above. But just thinking about two areas that he really talked about is when the sex dies in a relationship. He talked about the woman not trusting the man and the man not feeling she's devoted to him. And of course there's gender stereotypes, there's sexual stereotypes, there's generalizations in here. But I think it's important for people who are academics or experts to sometimes generalize and put things in a box that they can diagnose and treat things and recommend things. And so while not everybody is going to fit in the boxes that John and I went through, I thought it was really powerful that he was able to put his finger on how a woman stops wanting to sexually connect with her partner when she doesn't trust him in some way. And I was just in Amsterdam this past weekend giving another TED Talk and it'll probably be live by the time you hear this episode called how to figure out what you really want. And when I was giving this talk, I was. I met a couple before I got on stage and there's something up with them. And I couldn't put my finger on it until later when I had some time to think. And I realized it was that she felt, the woman felt like she was resentful towards the guy. And I realized that that is just one version of what it looks like when somebody loses trust is that you get hurt and then you get resentful or you don't believe in somebod, you know, whatever have you. And so I think that one of the most scary things that I've dealt with throughout my life is the question of like, is there really one person you can spend the rest of your life with and have it all with? Can you have connection? Can you have understanding? Can you have deep love? Can you have sexual chemistry? Can you have all of it? And more than ever, I'm starting to become an optimist in love. After having called off my wedding, after having dated so many different types of guys. Many of them were amazing guys. One was a narcissist. So in my own relationship and dating history, there's only one guy that stands out to me that I don't have positive things to say. But otherwise I feel like I've had nurturing, loving relationships. But I lost attraction to a lot of my partners at some point. And so I wanted to just kind of highlight what the question of trust and what does trust really mean to you? And what is trust really about? So I've really started to think a lot about what do I do to build trust with somebody. And I've thought a lot about the word loyalty. So for example, my friend Sarah had some friends over from. She comes from Michigan and she had some friends in town for her wedding. And there's a lot of us there to celebrate her at her wedding. But there was something inside of me that felt such a loyalty towards her that what that looked like for me was making an effort with the friends she had that I didn't really know. And whether they resonated for me or not, I wanted to make the effort because that felt like loyalty. And I realized that that kind of loyalty builds trust, builds connection, builds love. And when I also think about what trust means to me, I think a lot about follow through and how we all have different things we need from partners to have trust. And there's so many layers, right? Like as a Woman, maybe you stop trusting your partner's ability to provide or ability to show up in their career or ability. You know, maybe they're not confident. And if somebody else isn't confident, how do you believe in them yourself if they don't believe in themselves? So trust has many, many layers. But the question I want to ask you to self examine is really how do you build trust with someone else? Like what are your strategies for that? Because one of my strategies is to foster a sense of loyalty, which means if somebody brings somebody into our world that nobody else knows, I go out of my way to get to know that person. And it's not just because I want to show my friend I care, but because to me that is loyalty. That is showing trust, that is showing connection. Another way that I build trust with somebody is I show up when I say I'm going to show up and I do what I say I'm going to do. And so I'm curious, you know, for you, do you show up when you say you're going to show up? Do you say what you're going to do and do it? Do you do what you say? I think that there's so many people in the world that have different ways of building trust and I think that often we forget to really look at how we build trust with ourselves and with other people. Another thing that's really profound I wanted to share with you was throughout my master's in spiritual psychology, one of the topics that came up, and I think I've talked about this before, was incomplete actions, incomplete cycles of actions. They call them ICAs. ICAs. And according to research, one of the best ways to trust yourself is to do what you say you're going to do. So that means making commitments and making good on them. So if you say you're going to lose five pounds and go to the gym every day and you stop doing that, you actually hurt your relationship and your self esteem with yourself. And so I would say right now, taking a look at, can you even trust yourself? Because our life is a mirror and you can't create a partner for you that is highly trustworthy if you're not. And so I would say asking yourself, do you make good on the promises that you make to yourself? Do you keep the promises that you make to yourself? Or are you hurting your own self esteem and your own belief in yourself by not honoring the things you say you're gonna do and just really leaving you with that question. What is something you said you were gonna do that you're not making good on and how is that damaging your self esteem and lowering the quality of your standards for yourself and for other people in your life? So I could say a lot about John's episode but he was so powerful and profound. I feel like I really have nothing to say about sexual chemistry because because he's such an expert. Would love to hear what you think about this episode and again have to always thank you for the written iTunes reviews. They do so much for the podcast. It means so much that you're sharing it on Insta Stories, you're posting it on Instagram, you're hashtagging it. I can't thank you enough for getting the word out on the show. It means the world to me. I would love to hear from you on my DMS. AshleyStahl on the gram. Let me know what kind of episode do you want me to cover? What do you want me to talk about? I'm happy to respond. Record episodes that suit you, support you, and I'm just so grateful for you. All right, signing off.

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