#418: CREATE Your Billion-Dollar Mindset: The Shift That Is Standing Between You & A Billion Dollars with Amjad Masad, Dileep Thazhmon, Martin Villig, & Ankush Grover

If you build a company, try to think, are you actually providing value and to whom and why? And if you're serious about it, then I think, yeah. That brings similar minded people to your team.

Come on this journey with me each week when you join me, we are going to chase down our goals, overcome adversity and set you up for a better tomorrow.

Fasten your seatbelts, I'm ready for my close up.

Hi, and welcome back. I'm so glad you're back here with me this week. Okay, so I promised you that even though you might not have been able to make it to Saudi Arabia with me, I wish you could. And if you didn't come in February, I'm heading back. It is incredible. I had the best time at leap. Literally the biggest, most incredible conference I've ever been to or ever been a part of. There was almost 300,000 people there and there's golf carts driving you around, there's VIP rooms everywhere, there's green rooms everywhere, there's royalty, there's the CEO of TikTok, there's CEOs of the biggest companies in the world there. It's incredible. I mean, it's spectacular. And the size of the arena is 11 football fields big. I've never been a part of something bigger. It was so cool. And you have to go. I mean, it's cutting edge technology like nothing you've ever seen and the people are second to none. So anyhow, I'm going back. I can't wait. But if you couldn't make it with me this year, I am bringing Saudi to you. I'm bringing the LEAP conference to you. Well, at least the events that I was speaking at. So I had a keynote my first day there and then every other day there. I either moderated a panel, interviewed people, but they had me on stage every day. And it was incredible. And I loved every minute of it, was so fun. So if you missed last week's episode, it was with Stephen Bartlett. That was live at Leap. Go back and listen to it. He talked a lot about the importance of failure, how to leverage failure to drive success in your business. He and I did not agree on everything, but I loved him. He's great. He's so smart, so talented, so young. I'm so proud of him. So impressed by him. Really good guy. And wow, he was without a doubt the biggest hit at that conference. People in Europe fall over themselves like he's the Beatles. It's pretty crazy, but super excited for him and it was an incredible talk. Go listen to it, that was last week's episode. Really, really good. I loved it. But today I'm actually sharing with you another episode which is another live conversation at leap. And this one, I moderated a panel. This one's interesting because it's a unicorn panel. Unicorns are billionaire startups, right? So these companies that are evaluated at over a billion dollars, and I'm a big fan of. Don't take direction from people who haven't.

Been where you're going.

You know that, right? Can't take direct. Ask your mom how to create a billion dollar valued company if she hasn't done it. But you need to ask the unicorn founders. Cause they've done it, they've built it. They know the tips, they know the tricks, they know the how. And I love surrounding myself with people that are ahead of me because they think bigger, they've done bigger, they've done more. If you are surrounding yourself with people who are at the same level you are or lower, you are not going to grow. It's impossible. Give yourself the step up and this could be it, right? Sitting down right now with these billionaire founders is going to give you the insights you need to your business and yourself to the next level to think bigger, to act on it and to make it happen. And one of the funny things that happened, one of the people from my mastermind from this year came with me to Saudi Arabia. I was so grateful. And it's funny, I say the same things over and over again to people. Oftentimes people hear it and take action, but sometimes even the ones that work with me month in and month out for more than a year don't. And she had an epiphany during this conversation. She was sitting in the front row at this audience. She was there with me, supporting me, supporting. Super grateful for her. But when I got off stage, she said, I just had a breakthrough by listening to this conversation. And I said, what was it? And she shared that, you know, I was asking these guys all different questions. You know, what they attribute their success to, what they could share with the audience that the audience can gain insight and value from to apply to their business and their life. And one of the billionaire founders shared something that I say all of the time, but he said it at a different frequency in a different way. He used percentages to explain it, which is the same thing I say all the time. And she got it. It never landed with her when I said it, but when he did, in the way he did, in the tone he said, how he said it, which was different than the way I said it. She got it. She had this breakthrough moment. So I wonder if you will today too. And that's why it's so important to surround yourself with different people and not just listen to the same person over and over again, but exposing yourself to other people from different places with different frequencies, with different ways to message and frame and tee things up. You never know when that's going to be the breakthrough moment. And this was for her. So if you're interested, my mastermind is open right now. The 2024 doors have been open. They will only be open for the next five weeks and it will sell out because we had incredible results from last year's. It's just wrapping up now. And actually one of my members, my mastermind, decided to join me and work with me. And she is the one answering everybody's question because she's been through it. The results are unmatched. I'm so proud of this crew. And if you're looking for a big change in your life, if you're looking to get to the next level and you want to ride with me for a year, two in person events, we meet twice monthly. You will be held accountable. Your confidence will soar. You will learn new tips and tricks that you couldn't have imagined. Get ready to go. Click the link in the show notes below and you can apply now while.

There are still seats open.

Okay. Until then, I am excited for you to hear from the unicorn panel sharing the tips and tricks from billionaires who've done it. Take the advice from those who have been there.

Here we go.

I asked you to try to find your passion. Asalam alaykum, Riyadh. So excited to be here with you today.

Who's interested in becoming a unicorn themselves here?

Hello.

Add me to the mix. All right.

Wait, someone on stage.

Just raise her again.

What's going on here?

Staying a unicorn.

Yes, staying a unicorn is important as well.

These incredible gentlemen to my left are.

Going to be dropping some gems for you today so that you too can be on the road to rapidly accelerating your business and revenues.

So let's start with you, Amjad.

You've talked to me and you reminded.

Me about sports when you talked about predicting the future, predicting where the ball's going on a court. What is the impact or importance level.

Of that in your business and being.

Able to project what's happening next.

Yeah. So we're in the business of making software development better, more efficient, more fun, and that's experiencing a rapid change right now with AI and we actually started working on what became large language models even back in 2019. So we saw this kind of move coming and it became a huge tailwind. Rapidly changing technology can either hurt you or benefit you. If you're able to predict it or see it coming, then it can be a huge boon for your business. If it comes as a surprise to you, then actually your business might get disrupted. So it's important to understand where the technology is headed and try to really skate where the puck is going to.

Ooh, I like it. Thank you for coming back to the sports analogy for me.

Meet a different guest each week.

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I asked you to try to find your passion.

Okay Martin, let's go to you next. Your company has evolved immensely with your product offerings. How does that happen and how do the people that are here today jump from focusing on just one thing instead of staying with one thing versus evolving into so much as you've done?

Yeah, glad to be here. We started 10 years ago from Estonia and really from a personal problem so that it was difficult to order a taxi and then we felt the pain and we thought, okay, we should do something about it. We really started off with only €5,000 to build the first prototype and it was really difficult to fundraise during the time because as you've seen, I don't know, depends which markets you come from, but especially if you're from emerging markets. We came from Estonia, which is a small northern European country. You find different challenges and especially tapped into an industry that was the most well funded. So ride hailing industry. Probably close to $100 billion of funding among the companies. So yeah, coming from Estonia with very frugal little funding that that put us in a challenging position. But on the other hand that pushed us to also have a much more frugal culture and really be innovative, be very efficient, very smart. From that on we grew to Eastern Europe, we grew to Africa, Western Europe and now to mena. So yeah, today we've evolved to five different verticals starting from ride hailing, then micro mobility, e scooters, e bikes and then groceries and so on. So it has been quite an evolvement and I would say together with our mission to make now cities more people friendly, it has been an amazing journey. But of course also tons of different challenges. I would say culture and frugality has been the key things for us to being able to really compete with the biggest startups in the world.

And kush, you talk about being a different kind of unicorn. I know many people like myself you want to believe you can drive your business to success overnight. But that hasn't really been the way it's happened for you. You call yourself what kind of a unicorn?

We call ourselves a slow unicorn. So it took us around 10 years to become a unicorn because we picked up industry which was not revolutionized by Internet. So the restaurant industry started 500 years ago. So Amazon came revolutionized something Uber revolves something but no one did anything in terms of food. So that's where we picked our battle. There was no playbook to play on. There was so we were not any XYZ of India. So build it our own, our own learnings did a lot of mistakes. So we started with one brand on the high street. Then we went to dark kitchens with one brand. Then we realized people order McDonald's never a salad from McDonald's. So each cuisine need to have one brand. So we wanted we started building multi brand and one core value of our is challenge the status quo. So we keep challenging the way food business is being run. So Today we operate 400 kitchens from four countries, 20 brands and we serve 10 million meals a month. That's been our journey. And recently we got Wendy's to India. So Wendy's a hundred years old company the first time in the history they could open 150 locations in span of 18 months. So that's the kind of scale bring on and but it took a lot of time for us to understand mistakes go back redraw and a lot of backers and our investors so none of our investors ever exited so far. So we have likes of Sikor on board, Goldman Sachs CO2QIA. So it's a long journey and that's why we call ourselves a slow unicorn.

What keeps you going through a long journey?

So one very obvious is love for food. So I love food. And then the other thing is I think the overall mission is still McDonald's is the world's most valuable food company at 130 billion we are just a billion dollar. So we have a lot of canvas to be covered, a lot of things to be done. We recently ended Saudi and we know how big Saudi is a market. So we just entered and have three kitchens here. So ambition is to be the largest in the world. We are already Largest, but keep growing and have like 50,000 Internet restaurants, around 2,000 locations and have all the cuisines on board, which we make and serve to our customers.

I love it. Follow your passions and set massive goals. Dilip to you, I come from corporate America, which for anyone, sure. I've got some corporate America peeps here. You've been in. Okay, my people are here. Structure is everything. It's very rigid. But you talk about embracing organized chaos. How does that work?

Yeah, well, one great to be here. I actually grew up in the Middle East 20 years ago, so it's amazing seeing a lot of the change coming through. I mean, a startup by definition is a creation event, right? You're creating something and to create something there needs to be some kind of chaos. So if you have chaos, that's actually a good indication that there's probably a problem there that you can put your mind to to try to solve. So for us, what we do is we focus on a very simple thesis. Companies are going global increasingly quickly from day one. You have an office in the us, you have an office in Saudi, you have an office in Saudi. In the uk you need multiple banking systems, you need bank accounts, you need corporate cards in different currencies, you need payment rails in UK, US economy, etc. Etc. How do you combine that into one box? I do not have a fintech background and I think that's part of what the good and the bad is where you look at it a little bit differently. And the way we were built from day one was to scale across countries. And today we covered 22 countries in four regions and we can go up to 54 with our existing infrastructure stack. And so that chaos to me was a big opportunity because that's really what we're trying to say. All which is banking, especially business banking, is pretty tedious in a lot of countries. And a lot of times a lot of the solutions focus on consumers, which makes a ton of sense. But business banking moves massive volumes and it's completely antiquated. And again, I don't see us as taking over or competing head to head with the bank. I think there's a space that's very clearly more complex than what a local bank can do, where we can sit and play. And that itself is pretty massive given the scale of banking internationally.

Thank you. Job, back to you. What is your biggest regret that you can share with us?

My biggest regret? I'm generally like not a very regretful person. I generally just go through life and just assume that is somewhat predestined. I'm going to make the mistake I'm going to make and just keep going. So I don't recommend regret in general, but I would say the thing that I would have loved to embrace earlier is really trusting my gut instinct. Every time I've listened to an investor who's otherwise like a very smart, knowledgeable person or really any kind of mentor or anything like that, and went against my instincts because I thought they're an authority, they know what they're doing. We've made mistakes and we've lost time and you know, as I matured as a CEO, I've actually become a lot more comfortable in my skin in terms of just like being able to make decisions, like really gut based decisions and not really stressing over decisions a whole lot, changing my mind quite a bit, to my chagrin of my team. Sometimes where it feels like a little random, but I think that's really what building a startup is like, is that you need to explore a lot of things and it's okay, you know, if some of those things don't work out, but don't do things just because you're expected to do them or because someone said something that felt that it was authoritative for you. So I would say just trusting my instincts.

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That is so much easier said than done for me specifically and I know I'm sure for a lot of us here, what tips can you give us so that we can lean into it because we've all Been in that moment where we felt it. But like you said, when you move forward, everyone starts questioning you. How do you overcome that?

Well, sometimes you have to be comfortable with taking a bit of a credibility hit for a short period of time. If really, you know, people on your team are not like really trusting your decision or don't understand it. You have to build a culture where it is disagree and commit.

Right.

Like people in your team need to be able to just say, okay, like I'm not fully on board with this, but I'm just going to go with you. I'm going to trust your decision. Because otherwise, especially executive teams, if there's a lot of like uncertainty and doubt, it becomes very hard to make these kind of fast and loose decisions. So I think it really comes down to the culture you've built and the team around you and you extend this to other people as well. Like if someone is feeling really strongly in your team about something, let them do it and see what comes out of that.

I love it.

The power of celebrating failures along the way. Thank you for that.

Martin, if you had to point to.

One thing, why your company has become so successful, what would be the one key takeaway that you would point to?

I already mentioned it. I think it's culture, but it also is combined with a mission. So I think quite early on we understood that we want to make the world better and actually build more people friendly cities. And this is something that we believe strongly. We live that mission every day. So I bike to office and basically 90% of my rides in Tallinn I do by biking. And my brother Marcos, who is CEO, he doesn't have a driver's license, so he's only using shared mobility services and also working to the office if possible. So I think starting from that very early on, the culture and leaving the values that you have, and this actually then brings the people who believe in the same values, who believe in the same mission. And that is motivating so much of them, besides only the compensation part. And if you attract right people, you can do miracles. And in our case this is about changing cities, which is not a simple thing. So we can solve and offer solutions on the transportation part, but we need to also convince the cities to think about their planning and how transportation networks are built, how even the districts are built, and so on. And to convince and change that, it takes time. And I think if you believe that you are on the right mission, then it's so much easier to do that. And also here I would say that being in Saudi it's really enlightening to learn about their 2030 mission, how they are thinking of new cities, Neom and many others. And of course we see that even in Riyadh the traffic have slight issues. So we try to help and think and work together with the government and the teams and local partners to see that how we could really solve it, make the cities and the world better. So I would say that yeah, if you build a company, try to think actually providing value and to whom and why and if you're serious about it, then I think yeah, that brings similar minded people to your team.

We're all hoping that you're working on.

That for us for next year. Martin, please, thank you.

It's for the next one or two or three decades to move on. So for the long term, thank you.

Ankush, what can you share around failures that you have? Because so often people see the level of success that you all have on the outside and but don't think that you have to struggle with the type of failures that they have. What is one that you can share that you've overcome?

So I think again the long journey and I think a lot of failures, a lot of them, the first failure when we got our first funding, we open a lot of locations and then realize we open not the right ones. So we again shrink the network. Then we again when we are in cloud, we open a big network. Then we again shrunk our network. So if you ask me, failure in terms of when we were going for multi brand. So we have a brand called Fasos which was selling wraps. We started selling biryani in Fasos, pizza in Fasos, salads in fastos and people were not buying. And then we realized, okay, people associate one brand with one cuisine. So we started a brand called Olive Trails which was of continental food. Didn't work. Then we started another brand for Chinese, didn't work. So then finally first brand which worked for us was Behrus. So I think it's more about there will be a lot of failures and for all the founders it's more about keeping at it. And I think all of us talked about culture. So we as a rebel build a culture of courage where our teams. So I am with Rebel from 12 years and we have around 50 more people who joined within next six months. I have 70% of my workforce which is more than five years in the company. So we have a team where there's culture of courage. People have no insecurity, they don't care when they get failed. So they do new things, they go to new markets and open new markets. They try new brands, new food, new products. So I think while there are a lot of failures, if this whole culture of courage is what helped us navigate and build, go back to drawing board work again and our values, which is always thinking customer first challenge, the status quo and ownership. So this is how we tackled our failures and navigated in our journey.

We keep hearing be courageous, embrace failures over and over again. Thank you so much. Dilip, to you. What are the most important skills or qualities an entrepreneur needs to have in this day and age?

I can talk about myself. So I think the first thing is you can't almost overthink it. And the number one thing I've seen with founders that don't make it as they kind of analyze it to death, and the reality is you're going to have 50% information if you're lucky. If you're waiting for 80 or 90% information, someone's already done it. And so you have to move pretty quickly. And that window that you're building for also moves. And the biggest thing I've seen is people think it's always there and they're like, all right, now I'm ready. But that window is already gone. And like someone else has already done that. And, you know, when we launched, we started in multiple countries and we were shipping US card to multiple countries. Now we have licenses in 22 countries. But if I was waiting for the license to start, we just would never start. Right? And so it's a balance. You have to be comfortable with that level of risk. And then the second thing is, I think someone mentioned this here, but you have to enjoy the process, like build something you want to build. Because at the end of the day, you know, the funding, your unicorn, like, none of that's going to get you through when it's hard. And you have to, like, be like, why are you actually doing this? Because you could probably do a lot of other things. And so if you don't enjoy the process of building, you don't fall in love with the process, the outcome. And everyone wants an outcome. We're all here, we want an outcome. But if you don't enjoy the process, it's going to be very, very hard to make it and you're probably going to burn out. And then the last thing that I've seen, and this is something someone told me, but as a founder, you have the most information. And so a lot of times things don't look as good as people tell you it is on the outside, but they're also not probably as bad as you think it is on the inside. You see everything right? And part of this is like splitting that up and being like, hey, keeping the balance of your good days are good, your bad days are bad. Some days is the same day, but it will change. Tomorrow's a new day, you get another shot. So you have to like enjoy that process to get to that end point.

I love that for me, with speaking again, not a unicorn, not a billionaire. Yet for me, when it comes to speaking, the way you get over that fear is thinking about the one person you can impact, going back to the one small difference that you can make. And if you keep going back to that, it can propel you to that next one.

It's helpful.

How do you deal with uncertainty and volatility specific to your industry? How are you able to thrive through those twists and turns when you don't have it figured out?

I think having a set of founders around you that are going through similar challenges is super, super useful. A big reason why Silicon Valley works as a place is because you know, you can go out on the street and find another founder. And so it's a really great community. And I've gotten a lot out of doing that.

But.

But you could also do it on a WhatsApp group or a signal channel, whatever. Like, just like get a group of people around the same stage as you. Doesn't have to be the same industry. Everyone, all the founders go through the same stuff, through the same emotions, through the same ups and downs, through the same crappy investors or crappy customers or what have you. And so being able to immediately go out and talk to a friend and getting some advice gets you out of that over analysis paralysis and makes it a lot easier. And it's, frankly, with a community, it's a lot more fun to be doing that sort of stuff. So really surround yourself with people you look up to.

Meet a different guest each week. Confidence creators. I asked you to try to find your passion.

I love that idea that there's community and support. But have you ever had people want to give you community support and direction, but they were steering you off course?

There's a lot of armchair philosophers out there and I would say that's like the number one skill you learn as a founder. You know, I talked earlier about trusting your gut instinct. There's so much bad advice out there. It's like probably like 90% of the advice is bad. Even good advice becomes stale. You know, if an investor has been like an operator in the dot com era, like most of their advice is already stale, you know. And so as a founder you just get like massive amount of information. Being able to parse through that and figuring out what is the good information and what is the bad or misinformation and kind of being able to throw that away, but also just being chill about it, you don't have to be mean about it or anything like that. If your father wants to give you a piece of advice, that's irrelevant, just smile and nod your head.

Thank you so much for that.

Thank you.

Martin. How do you manage your time and energy as a busy leader? Meaning on the outside, sometimes it looks like all anyone does is work and they're working around the clock. Is that what it actually is?

Like we realized it very early on that building a big company is not a sprint, but it's a marathon. So you need to deal with yourself. You need to set some certain routines. Of course you can do a few all nighters, but you can't do that all the time. So you need to balance out. We've tried to get eight hours sleep from whatever second year onwards and then really keep that. And also going out, doing sports, trying to whatever, hang out a bit with friends to get your stress off. I think this is really, really important and the whole mental mindset and things as well. So that what do you believe, what do you scare off? What we discussed today as well. So I think this I would also say is one of the biggest, maybe game changers, which founders are making it and which are breaking it. So trying to set that early on, I think this is crucial and I have had tough times as everyone and also. But you have supportive system, your family, your friends as the community in a sense who can help you and then give advice, give a boost. I think then you can get through it. And again, if you have a good mission, step by step, you move towards that. It gives you energy.

Thank you. Ankush and Duleep, I'm going to ask you both the same question, if you could both please answer. What are you most excited, excited or looking forward to in your business for the future?

When you see things start clicking and that excites you. So the time for us to build our first 100 and the time to build the next 300 and then we see how it is happening, how it's growing, how the consumer love keeps at it. So we keep it very simple. So we say most loved, most ordered, most profitable. So we first focus on the customer love and the more we love we get, the more energy we get to make it bigger. And we keep getting emails across the world. They want to take a Rebel franchisee, they want Rebel to come to the city, they want their brand to be in that city. So I think customer love is what makes us keep at it and grow.

Excellent for us.

I mean, look at this event, right? It's just looking at the level of globalization. It makes us excited because when we started the company, that thesis wasn't fully there. I remember talking to investors and be like, how big is the market? And now it's just kind of very obvious that a lot of these markets are interconnected. It's not just one specific region or specific country. So the level of globalization for us is something we're super excited about. We just launched cross border payments, especially for Latin America, which is very hard to do. Moving money out of Brazil, Colombia, Mexico. So again, that's more from a product and company perspective. But also I think it's a really good time to hire because there's a lot of good talent out there. And so from a company culture and people perspective, that's what we're most excited about, which is just up leveling a little bit across the board to kind of get ready for the next few years.

Thank you for that. Unfortunately, we're getting a big sign right.

Now that our time is up. So would you please join me in.

Thanking these gentlemen for dropping these gems with us today.

Thank you.

I decided to change that dynamic Gamma. I couldn't be more excited for what you're going to hear. Start learning and growing, inevitably something will happen. No one succeeds alone.

You don't stop and look around once in a while.

You could miss it.

I'm on this journey with me.