#436: Unlock the POWER of Diverse Social Connections with Kasley Killam, MPH, Author, Chief Connection Chemist

Right now, a lot of people are feeling isolated and lonely and a lot of our society is set up that way. Right? We need to reimagine our cities as connected places. We need to reimagine our technology tools and the policies that we put into law, kind of reimagining all of our lives so that we can prioritize social health because it's so imperative for us to be able to live long, healthy and happy.

Come on this journey with me each week when you join me. We are going to chase down our goals, overcome adversity, and set you up for a better tomorrow. I'm ready for my close up. Hi, guys, and welcome back. I'm so excited for you to have this conversation with us to meet our guest this week. And this is some powerful stuff. I'm gonna throw some stats at you right now, so get ready. This is eye opening. It's not good. But we're gonna talk about how we can make it good. Over the past 20 years, the amount of time people spent alone increased by an average of 24 hours per month. And can I tell you. P.S. this is why I love and hate Zoom. Because when you have a virtual business or the ability to have a virtual business, you are actually making that happen more often than not, which can be a bit isolating speaking from the person that's talking to you on Zoom right now. Okay, wait a minute. Another one. According to a national survey in 2019, around half of the adults in the US felt as if no one knew them. Well, that breaks my heart. According to Gallup, 330 million adults around the globe endure weeks at a time without speaking to a single family member or friend. And 20% of all adults worldwide don't have anyone they can reach out to for help. This is horrible. This lack of connection is dangerous. Increasing people's risk of stroke by 32%, the risk of dementia by 50%, and the risk of birth early death by 29%. I mean, we've never talked about this on the show before. I'm super excited to get into today. So first let's intro our incredible guest. She is the expert in this arena. Kasli Kilm is internationally recognized as a leading expert in social health. As a graduate of the Harvard T.H. chan School of Public Health, sought after advisor and keynote speaker, founder of Social Health Labs, Killam has been improving global well being through connection for over a decade.

Shout out to that work.

Her collaborations with organizations like Google, the US Department of Health and Human Services, and the World Economic Forum contribute to Building more socially healthy products, workplaces and communities. Killam's insights can be found in outlets such as Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan, the New York Times, Scientific American, Psychology Today, and the Washington Post. Kasley, thank you for being here.

Thank you so much, Heather. I'm excited to dive into those statistics in much more detail.

How did you even get into this work?

It's a great question. So I think that a lot of people in academia or research as part of their background will say that research is really me search like we're exploring these topics because we're interested in them personally. And that's definitely true for me. Growing up, I was always fascinated by the human relationships around me, right. Whether it was paying attention to family dynamics or my friends on the playground at school.

School.

I am an introvert. And so I've had to learn to navigate kind of what's the right balance of socializing and solitude for me. How do I thrive in a workplace environment that favors extroversion? And then also I've moved around many times to different cities, different countries, which meant that over and over I've had to kind of start from scratch, make new friends, build new community, and stay in touch with loved ones far away. And so as those examples demonstrate, I've always been paying attention to the social world and trying to understand how do we connect more meaningfully and how does that affect our lives. And as a social scientist, I was so excited to come across research talking about the effects of human connection on our health and well being. But also what are some of those skills that we can each employ in our day to day lives to empathize better, to relate better, to develop those long term supportive relationships and communities that are so nourishing to us. And I felt so excited about applying those research insights in my own life and I wanted to share them with the world and empower us all to use what we're learning in the data and then play with it in our own lives to live longer, better lives through connection.

I love that you say the research is me search. It's like what you talk about is what you need. I talk about confidence all the time. It's something I've needed my whole life and continue to need. Right. So I'm so on point with you there that people talk and preach about what they need to be hearing. So you almost used your yourself as your example, right? Like that you had this issue. You're introverted, you're moving around a lot, so you're lonely or you're trying to Meet people. So you tested and tried different tactics in your own life, and how did those work for you?

Well, it's been really fun. Lots of trial and error over the past 10 years. And combining my own personal experiences with the communities that I work with, early on, I did an experiment where for almost four months, I did an act of kindness every single day. And so I challenged myself to say, I cannot go to bed tonight. I can not sleep until I've connected with another human in a more meaningful way. And it might sound like a simple thing, but it was remarkable early on to realize that it had been so easy to go about my days, just caught up in my own thoughts, my to do list, my goals, the busyness of day to day life, that I wasn't necessarily always paying attention to the people around me or remembering to, you know, call a loved one and check in on a friend who's going through a hard time. And so very early on into that own personal experiment that I was doing, I realized, gosh, when I just turn the lens outward and I'm intentional each day about connecting with other people, it opens up all these opportunities for connection around me. And so at the end of the four months, what I found was, first of all, I'd made new friends because I had been paying attention to people around me and opportunities for me to say hello or help other people or do something nice for someone else. I'd also felt a lot more connected to my community. I had deepened relationships with existing friends and family. And also it had benefited me in all these surprising ways. Right? Like new job opportunities came out of it, more meaningful conversations with people. I was so energized and felt so alive because of the conversations I was having with folks that that energy translated into more motivation to take care of other parts of my health. So I was eating healthier, I was exercising more regularly. At that time, I was completing my undergraduate degree and I achieved the best GPA of my entire undergraduate career. And I think it's because I was so engaged in this meaningful way that the time that I spent studying or writing essays or whatever was highly focused. So all these surprising side effects came out of this personal experiment where the goal was just to do one thing a day where I was connecting with another person. But it had all these incredible outcomes for the rest of my life. Life. And that was my first cue that signaled to me that what the research was showing was so true for my own life. Right. If I prioritize connection in my day to day, it's going to Benefit my health, my well being, my happiness, my life. And it's going to help me connect meaningfully with other people. Explain something.

First of all, I love that, right? Like an act of kindness a day just makes the world a better place. And even just everyone listening to the show right now, guys, if everybody does that, please, can we do this, please? I'm so down for this. I'm so in for it. Like I unbelievable hardly in this. So I'm in. You guys, I want to hear from you. Are you in one act of kindness a day? Let me know. Hit me up on social media or send me a note on my website. I want to hear from you on this. So, Kelsey, when you were talking about that, it triggered a memory for me around when I was doing something similar, but I was doing it around gratitude. You know, I made myself sit down and write down three things I'm grateful for every day. I did it for a month. And the shift, seismic shift that from a sense of happiness, energy, just. I mean, is that the same thing?

I think it's very similar. And I love that you did that, Heather. And there's great research showing that when we do set aside time to reflect on what we're grateful for each day or each week, it has these measurable benefits for our health and happiness. So I love that. I think in both these instances, whether it's focusing on gratitude or focusing on connection with other people, what it is, is shifting our mindsets, right? So rather than being caught up in our busy lives and the stresses of day to day, we're focusing on something positive. We're focusing on an opportunity and that's actually expanding our awareness. When I was doing the daily acts of kindness, it felt like I had put on glasses that were suddenly allowing me to see opportunities for connection all around me, which had always been there, but I wasn't paying attention to them. It got me out of my own head and my own problems and issues and focused me on other people. So it was this beautiful broadening. And I think that's the same thing that's going on when you're intentional about gratitude, right? You're focusing on something positive and that's filling your body with a happy feeling that then you carry into your day to day.

Meet a different guest each week.

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I asked you to try to find your passion. I have to share this story with you because this was last weekend, and it was so annoying. Something happened to me Saturday morning in my personal life, and I didn't like it. I mean, obviously, not everyone does what we think they should be doing in life, right? So I felt someone should have handled something differently than they did at the end of the day. Now here I am, days later. I'm like, why was I even. That's their choice, not mine. But in the moment, you know, you're like, this is awful and wrong. And I was so angry and upset, and I'm alone at home, right? And I was in this terrible mood, and I was obsessing about the bad thing. I'm leaving bad, right. That I don't like that they did this and whatever and upsetting about it. A downward spiral to nowhere, right? Nothing good happening. However, weeks earlier, a friend of mine had asked me to do a book signing for her to help promote something she was doing. And so, like, an act of service, I had agreed to do this, you know, weeks ahead of time, I'm saying myself, oh, my gosh, I got to leave. I have to go help my friend right now. And again, this was not strategic, but I'm interested to hear what you think about it. And so it was just serendipitous. And so I go out to this event. It's like an hour and a half way. It's a pain to go there. Whatever. The minute I get there, I was so happy because I'm walking, and I'm like, okay, I need to be here right now to help my friend and do the right thing by her. I got to check my negativity at the door and, like, get back to being a good human. And as soon as I walk in, people are telling me how my book helped them. They're telling me their personal stories about challenges they've had. My friend comes over to give me a hug to say thank you so much for coming. I forgot 100% about that whole situation that occurred that morning. Literally, it was gone from my mind. I was so in the moment and present in that event and helping others and encouraging other people and feeling grateful for the feedback I was getting. I ended up staying at this event so much longer than I was supposed to. And when I finally left that event, it hit me on the drive back. Oh, I forgot about. I was supposed to be upset today from this morning, and it was crazy experience. Is that all about, like, how connection can help you even get you out of a bad mood.

Yes. First of all, I love that story, and it's highly relatable. I have those days myself as well. I also think it underscores a really important point. So, Heather, we started this conversation with you sharing some of the really frightening statistics about how disconnected many people feel in the US and in countries around the world. Right. And there are many others we could share. The number of friends people have has declined, and the amount of time that they spend with their friends has declined as well. And there are so many other examples. Last year, the US Surgeon General issued an advisory, a national Advisory and strategy, declaring isolation and loneliness as a public health emergency. We see this in other countries, too, where, you know, Japan and the UK both have ministers for loneliness dedicated to addressing this issue and tackling it at the national level. And also last year, the World Health Organization launched a Global Commission on Social Connection, recognizing that this is literally a global priority for us to be addressing. But what I love about your story is that it shows one of the solutions, right? So you were feeling frustrated and in this kind of negative thought, that spiral, and you were by yourself, and then you went out into a social situation where you were serving someone else, you were helping your friend, Right. And you were connecting with other people, and it completely snapped you out of that mindset and put you in this generative headspace. That's why volunteering or doing acts of kindness or serving others is one of the best ways to overcome loneliness. Because when you, let's say it's helping your friend like you were, maybe it's going to a local soup kitchen, maybe it's volunteering. Volunteering to do a neighborhood cleanup. Maybe it's mentoring a student. Whatever it is that you care about, when you're volunteering and doing an act of service for someone else, you're leaving the headspace and the personal experiences that you're caught up in, and you're turning that into how can I help someone else? It's suddenly this generative connective headspace that opens up all these new opportunities and makes you feel better while creating new friends, while feeling connected to your community. So for people who are really struggling with loneliness, one of the techniques and strategies that the research tells us is really important and which I've seen in my work to be beneficial time and time again, is to volunteer, go out and do something for someone else, which sounds counterintuitive when we're the ones struggling, and yet it's one of the most effective approaches.

But, Kathleen, one of the problems with that, like, I had it. Serendipity, like, it was set up.

Right.

It was by chance. I didn't do it strategically, as I mentioned. Right. It just worked out perfectly to my benefit. I'm very grateful for that. However, and I just know this with a lot of people, and even myself, because I remember the end of COVID when I was so used to being home and on the stupid computer all the time. And that's, like, that was my new norm. It did feel weird going out at first. So if someone's listening to you right now, I guarantee someone saying, sounds easy, but it's not. It's not easy to go insert yourself into. And I'm one of the most extroverted people I've ever met in my whole life. And I felt like that, right? Like, I felt, oh, gosh, this is going to be a little awkward. I haven't been around people for a while. What if I don't remember how to fit in or create a conversation? So what do you say to those people?

Well, first of all, absolutely, you're right. And to provide a counterexample, I'm an introvert, right? So I love time alone. I love that balance of solitude and socializing. And yet I still find that the effort that goes into reaching out and connecting is so worthwhile. And sometimes I dread some social situation. And I'm like, really? I'd much rather be home on my couch. And then when I go, I end up feeling so good after. What I would say to people is that the research really is on your side. So there are studies showing that, for example, when you send someone a text out of the blue to say, hey, I'm thinking of you. It's been a while. You know, maybe you express gratitude, or maybe it's just as simple as I'm thinking of you, that person is going to appreciate that message more than we expect. Okay, so we underestimate how meaningful it is to the recipient for us to reach out and say hello. So that's number one. Another finding is that people like us more than we think. So there's something in the research called the liking gap, where all of us assume that in an interaction, the other person actually doesn't like us as much as they do. It's shocking. So researchers have set these interactions up where they bring two strangers together in a room, they have a short conversation, and then they take them apart and separately ask them, how much did you like the other person? And how much do you think they liked you? And then they compare the answers and what they find is consistently and significantly, people underestimate how much the other person likes them. So we actually like each other a lot more than we think. So if you're someone who thinks about going to a social situation or volunteering or something like that and feels a little anxious, it's helpful to remember, chances are, people like you more than you think. The last study I will share, because I think it's so interesting, and it's highly relevant to this question, is that in one study, researchers hooked people up with like an audio recorder, and then they asked them several times throughout the day over the course of a week, who are you connecting with? How does it feel? How connected do you feel? How happy do you feel? So they monitored their conversations over a week, and what they found was that the more often people connected and the more deep those conversations were, the happier they felt. And this was true for both introverts and extroverts, which is surprising because on one hand, introverts were happier connecting more frequently than they thought they would enjoy. And extroverts liked deeper conversations more than just casual connection, like we might assume. So in all these studies, you can see that what we think we might like or what we think might come out of a social interaction, it might actually be a little different. It might go better than we expect. So I encourage everyone to be armed with that information when you go into an interaction or a situation, or when you're pushing yourself to engage a little bit more.

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This is so interesting to me and I had no idea about this. The liking gap that is really peculiar to me. What drives that? Or is that just like inherent, like self doubt or diminishing our own word, like why is that?

That's a great question. I would suspect that there's a little bit of survival mode kicking in where it feels protective to sort of assume the worst and try to hedge our bets and take action according to that. But in fact it's holding us back. And so whatever that kick is that's going on psychologically, I would encourage us all to step beyond that and say, you know what, I'm going to fight that instinct and recognize that data shows people like me more than I think. And going into interactions with that belief is going to help you feel more confident and actually have a more positive interaction which then becomes a kind of self fulfilling prophecy.

Okay, so I'm always speaking things through my lens, my own life, but this is reminding me of like dating on apps, right? So which I feel like our whole world right now is set up to make everybody lonely and on the other side of a computer and not out right in the way that it used to be. However, there are some, you know, numbers in regards to success and things. And you look at, I'm sure there's data on it that if you don't use dating apps it probably takes longer to find somebody. Right. So you put yourself in these virtual arenas and when I'm hearing you talk, it's remind Me of that. Like people wondering, oh, I don't think this person's gonna like me. And then also feeling isolated, I'm meeting people on an interaction, on an app with text messaging. How do we set ourselves up for better success and better and more deeper connection when we're in all these virtual environments?

Yeah, it's such a great question. My first answer would be, whenever possible, to seek out those in person opportunities for connection. Because the research is clear that there's just nothing like being face to face, reading each other's body cues, having physical touch. Right. Shaking hands, having a hug. Those really do matter for connection. But shy of that, there are still steps we can take so that the time we're spending on zoom or on social media or on email can still be more connective. And these apply in real in person situations as well. So one example is vulnerability. So studies have shown that when we disclose something to another, maybe we confide in someone about a challenge we're going through or, you know, share an aspiration that we're hoping to achieve, but something that goes a little beyond the surface level and really shares with the other person something true and authentic about it. This, they're going to perceive us more favorably and we're going to perceive them more favorably. So people like us when we confide in them, and we like them better when we confide in them. So by being a little bit vulnerable, and it doesn't have to be, you know, sharing your deepest, darkest wounds, but just going beyond that surface level that engenders trust. Right. It invites the opportunity for deeper connection and for bonding on that real human level. And that's something we can do over zoom. And in person, would it be better in person? Sure. We'd all love to get that hug afterward or to, you know, feel each other's presence. But it's still the kind of ritual that we can do in person or remotely rather in the right context with the right person to help us get closer. So that's one example that's so interesting.

To me that what you found in this research, it's very eye opening. I mean, were you surprised by the information that you found when you started researching this?

Yeah, absolutely. Because I'm guilty of all of these biases and misconceptions myself. It's why I find it so fascinating.

Right.

When we start to understand these insights, we can really use them in our real lives to go out, feel more confident, prioritize connection, and that's good for us all.

Kelsey, you have a new book out the Art and Science of Connection. Want to talk a little bit about why you wrote this book and what the goal of the book is?

Absolutely. So as you said, I've been studying themes of connection and loneliness for over a decade now. It's something I'm so passionate about. But what I found is that missing from the conversation is this idea of social health. When we typically talk about what it means to be healthy or what to do to be healthy, we focus on physical and mental health health. Right. We exercise regularly and we get a good night's sleep and we drink lots of water and eat healthy foods in order to be physically healthy. Maybe we go to therapy or we journal or meditate or practice self care as a way to reduce our stress levels to take care of our mental health. Right. This is kind of the conventional wisdom that we're all familiar with for how to be healthy. But what the research shows and what we've been talking about is that that when we connect meaningfully, that has health benefits, that helps us live longer. Right. You started off sharing those statistics. When people have meaningful relationships in the amounts and ways that are nourishing to them. Right. Whether you're an introvert or extrovert, that might look different for each of us, but when you have that sense of support and connectivity, that improves your health and longevity. So what we see is that health is not just physical and mental, it's also social, it's relational. We also need to take care of our relationships in the same way that we take care of our bodies and minds to be healthy. So what this book does is really help make that practical. So if we understand that health is also social, how do we actually go about understanding our own social health? How do we go about improving it so that we're living the best life that we can through our relationships and through our sense of. Of community? So the book is really making practical all the research insights. It shares a lot of stories from different people who've overcome challenges to be, to. To really thrive through connection. It has different mindset shifts to help us go about this. If it feels a bit foreboding. And then at the broader level, it's really a call to action for us collectively to think about how do we make our society and culture more. More meaningfully connected. Right. Right now a lot of people are feeling isolated and lonely and a lot of our society is set up that way. Right. We need to reimagine our cities as connected places. We need to reimagine our technology tools and the policies that we Put into law, kind of reimagining all of our lives so that we can prioritize social health because it's so imperative for us to be able to live long, healthy and happy.

Oh, I'm so glad that we're having this conversation because it's just not something that most of us. I mean, you're thinking about it every day, but most of us really thinking about a strategy to be more connected and, you know, going through your work and it would open my eyes to some things I do great. Like, I thought to myself, I have so many amazing, very, like, strong circle of friends. It's crazy. I'm so blessed. However, we make each other priorities and we have our whole lives, so. So it's such a blessing because I was thinking that's benefiting me and a health standpoint for the times when your romantic relationship isn't there or the business relationship, you know, you're isolated on zoom or whatever it is, you still have this other pocket. So it just. It was so helpful to have your book and to understand that these choices that sometimes seem difficult are such great choices in the end.

Right?

Absolutely. And I love what you highlighted there, which is the idea that you have different friends and different kinds of relationships, so that it. If one of them isn't going well, that's okay. You've got these other sources of social health for you to draw from, and that's really important. That's one of the principles that I write about, which is that we need diverse ties, right? We need some close friends, we need some looser friends who we're less connected to, but they're still there for different kinds of socializing opportunities. Family, neighbors, co workers. Right? The groups that we're part of, if you go to church or if you're part of a chess club or a field hockey club or whatever it might be. Right. Those groups confer a different kind of value to our social lives. And so drawing from those different sources is really important. And what I invite everyone to do is really recognize that when you have lunch with a friend and have a deep conversation, or when you check in on a coworker who's been struggling with a project, or when you call your grandparents or your grandkids and tell them that you care about them, those interactions are changing your health and they're changing the other people's health as well. They're vital to us living a long time. And so the power that each of us have to connect with other people and to have that influence our lifespans is so much bigger than any of us even realize.

Oh, my gosh. When you were talking about that, like, the different relationships and neighbors and whatnot, it reminds me of I live somewhere for 17 years. So obviously I knew. And I was in a building. I knew everyone in the building. I'd been there forever. And so people would come up and introduce themselves to me when they would move there because I had been, you know, a fixture. However, almost two years ago now, I moved. And so when I moved to a new building, I know no one. I don't know the valet. I don't know the people that work in the building. I don't know the neighbors. I don't know anyone. And I remember there was a short window where it felt isolating because I was comparing it so much to my old situation where I knew everybody, right? And so I had people I could rely on. And it took a little bit of time because I wasn't cognizant of it. I wasn't being strategic like your book the Art and Science of Connection is helping Us to do. And so finally started stumbling upon. I was recognizing, Wait a minute, because I'm not talking to anybody around here. So I had to put myself out there, of course. And I remember an easy way to do it was with valet, because you're talking to people when they're getting your car or whatever, or you're not, right? So I just started.

Hey, Hi.

How are you? Where are you from? You know, I'm new here. I just moved here. And then one day, I'm like, all right, I'm going to go buy these guys a pizza and do something nice for them. And that one little thing changed the dynamic massively, because one of the guys. And this is why, for everyone listening, you will always find your people if you put yourself out there. He came up to me privately, was like, listen, yo, no one does that. That was so cool that you did. Anytime you bring us food, we are going to worship you. So I could tell he kind of speaks my language. And so then if I was at the grocery, I'd, like, pick up a small thing. Nothing big, you know, but like a little. And I'd always toss it to him. And it created this bond with him and I, which was crazy. And my son got into trouble one day. I wasn't around. I called him and I said, I just found out my son's in trouble. Will you help? And he was, like, covered. Like, don't even sweat it, Heather. He was so happy to help. He did such a great job to take care of my son anyways. But the whole point of the story is this, is that none of that would have happened if I didn't start like showing up and trying to talk to those guys. And in the end, listen, there's plenty of people down there I never got close to, but I did find my right people and it paid off on both sides.

Sides. I love that story so much. And I think what's beautiful about that is that those were really small things that you did to show the other person that you know they're a human and that you talk to them on the regular. And hey, we should know each other, right? It's like valuing them as a person and that can be done even without spending money, right? Maybe it's just taking a few more minutes to strike up conversation with someone. If you ride the bus every day or if you, you know, have someone, a security guard in the lobby at the office where you work, whatever it might be. Those small interactions really matter. And the studies are showing that as well too. Right? We need those deeper connections where we, you know, with friends and family, where we know everything about each other's lives. But we also need those little micro moments of connection where we're having small positive interactions with the people who are in our neighborhoods and in our workplaces and in our schools and our, our communities. Because those also make us feel less alone. They make us feel more like we're part of something and like we matter, which is such a core fundamental need that all of us share.

Well, how do you get people to do that? Or how are you able to do it when it's so easy to get busy and like when I'm having a bad day and downward spiral and rush by people because I'm in a hurry and I'm having a bad day to begin with and people are letting me down. Like, like, how do you get people to be intentional that, wait a minute, I'm going to pick my head up and I'm going to say hello to the person next to me in the elevator.

P.S.

That most people never even speak to. Like, how do you get people to recognize those moments?

Well, first of all, I'd say we can all have grace with ourselves, right? There are going to be days when we're busy and overwhelmed and don't worry about it, right? We should all be a little bit compassionate toward ourselves. But there are simple ways that we can weave it more into our day to days. And it can be as simple as setting a reminder on your calendar. Like I have a reminder on my calendar every Friday to send someone a note of gratitude and it literally takes one minute. I think of someone from that week and I send them an email or text or maybe if it's a friend and I have time, I'll give them a call. But even just taking that one minute of time to turn outward and connect with someone, another way is to write down a list of your kind of top, top relationships that are most important for you to keep really close. Right? Call it a to love list instead of a to do list. Who are those core relationships that you want to make sure you're connecting with regularly? Because I'll bet you we can all relate to suddenly realizing that it's been several months since we've talked to our best friend or called our grandparent or whoever that person might be. Right? Time goes by quickly. We're all busy. And so putting that list, put your to love list somewhere, you're going to see it every day, next to your coffee machine, next to your toothbrush, when you get up in the morning so that you're cued and primed to think about the people who matter most to you. And then if it's been too long since you've actually talked to one of them or reached out, reaching back out, putting in that effort. Those are a couple simple ways that we can prioritize connection in our day to day lives.

And like you said earlier, for anyone that's thinking, oh, they don't really want to hear from me, they're not going to care. It's no big deal. People like us more than we actually think they do, correct?

Absolutely. They like us more than we think they do. And also they appreciate hearing from us more than we think they do.

That's so wild.

What about this?

I like this. We all have people that we need to interact with sometimes and we might not get along with very well. What can we do to counteract the negative toll that takes on our social health? It's a big one.

Yeah, it is. I mean, we all have, you know, maybe it's that co worker who you just really butt heads with and don't get along with, but you have to work with them on a regular basis. Or maybe you're a parent and you have to go to birthdays for your child with other parents who you just. They're just not your people. You know, maybe they're good people, but you don't really click with them or share interests or values. Right? Whatever it might be. Sometimes there are relationships that are outright negative. And sometimes they're ambivalent. And in both those cases, the data shows it can actually be detrimental for our social health.

Health.

So it's something we need to pay attention to and try to, you know, sort of limit those interactions where we can. But let's be real, Sometimes it's inevitable. And so in those cases, it's about showing up, you know, being friendly and warm and leaving when you can, and then counteracting that in some way. Counteracting that interaction could look like spending time alone to just like take a breather and relax and decompress from it. Or it could mean adding in a more positive interaction. Right. Calling a friend and venting about what just happened, or spending time with someone you really do love and prioritizing that quality time to kind of offset it and balance and recalibrate. So those are a few examples. But that's the reality is that we're all navigating our social worlds one interaction at a time. And it's not all going to be positive. And that's okay, right? Like, we can be resilient through that and just recognize that some relationships are positive and strong and we should nourish those as much as we can and maximize that kind of connection and then take in stride the ones that are more difficult.

Who did you write this book for?

I wrote it for absolutely everyone who cares about connecting more meaningfully. And I wrote it for everyone who's interested in being healthier in surprising ways. Is.

Right.

I think that. Well, I know based on the research that a lot of people underestimate the importance of our relationships. Not just for happiness. Right. It's not just about feeling good. It's not just touchy feely. It's literally down to your risk for premature mortality, your risk for cardiovascular disease, your risk for diabetes and dementia and so many other illnesses. Right. Our immune systems are stronger when we have meaningful connection. There was a study I loved a while back that infected people with the cold virus. I love the scientists who come up with these crazy ideas. They infected people with the cold virus and the people who had a stronger sense of social support and who got more hugs on a daily basis had fewer cold symptoms. So literally a hug a day keeps the doctor away. Right. Like it is empowering to your immune system to feel connected in these kinds of ways. Ways. And so this book is for anyone who wants to understand how to actually weave this into your day to day and be empowered to be socially healthy.

Meet a different guest each week.

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I asked you to try to find your passion. How do you get your 16 year old to keep hugging you?

I wish I had an answer for that one. You stumped me.

Let me help you figure that one out. Because I'm like this kid never hugs me anymore. So actually like I'm getting shortchanged. I don't want to get a cold.

Come on.

That's terrible. I'm going to have to let him know about that one. Okay, so what is the framework that you share? Or can you tell us a little bit about the framework that people can use from the book?

Yeah, absolutely. So one of the frameworks in the book to understand your social health follows three simple steps and there's a worksheet in there with a lot more detail on how to go through these. But the first step is to just identify the sources of your social health health. So who is important to you? Who are you connecting with on a regular basis? What groups do you belong to? Really do an Inventory of what your social world looks like on a day to day basis. Right. Who are the people and the connections that matter to you and who you interact with regularly. The second step is assessing the strength of each of those. Right. So the questions that we need to ask ourselves about our different social interactions is, are they mutual and are they meaningful? So with a given friend or with a given family member, does it feel like it's a bidirectional exchange of support? Does it feel like it's meaningful in a nourishing way? Because we've talked a lot about those micro moments in our day to day. But it's also important that we have people who really see, understand and know who we are at our core. So making sure that we have different relationships and communities that are both mutual and meaningful. And then the last step is to understand the strategy that you need to take. So you might kind of do this inventory and look at your social landscape and realize you want more friends. Like there's not enough. Maybe you have great friends, but you're not part of any groups and that's valuable in its own right. So maybe it's about expanding. And in that case, your strategy is to stretch your social muscles. So just like we stretch our physical muscles, you can stretch, stretch your social muscles. Or you might look at that, your social landscape, and think, actually I'm good. Like the number of people who I'm connecting with, maybe it's actually too much.

Right?

Like maybe I'm overwhelmed by my social obligations and I actually need to step back. In that case, it's about resting your social muscles. So just like it's important to rest your physical muscles in between workouts or in between reps. Right. We need to also give rest to our social lives as well. Sometimes times or it could be that you want to go deeper so you've got these connections, but you feel like some of them just aren't going to that deeper level. And so in that case, it's about toning your social muscles. Right? And just like we tone our physical muscles to become stronger, how do you tone your social muscles? And then the last strategy is around flexing your social muscles. So if you're like, I'm good, I've got these close ties, I'm feeling good, how do you sustain that in the long term and make sure that it stays that way? So how do you flex your social muscles?

What are some of the strategies that you can share for people? When I'm listening to you talk about this, this hits me that a lot of people. I would think more people struggle with trying to get out there and create these relationships. They're not cutting back. They're not. Some people are overly committed socially, for sure they exist. But I would think more people are isolating themselves and don't have enough relationship for those people. How do you suggest, other than. I know we talked earlier about volunteering and serving others. Is there a way when they walk into an environment they see a lot of people like, how can someone approach it and feel a little bit more comfortable?

So one thing I would say is to go into those situations with some of the mindsets that we've talked about, which is, chances are when you strike up conversation with someone or you go into a social interaction, they're probably going to like you more than you think. And they're probably going to appreciate the fact that you're connecting with them more than you think. Right. They're probably feeling the way you are, which is a little bit nervous and anxious. Most of us feel that way when we go into a new situation. The other thing I would suggest is to do what you love with others, right? So choose opportunities to do something that already brings you alive. Maybe that's playing pickleball or joining a choir or whatever it is that you enjoy hiking, right. Find opportunities to do that with other people. If you like painting, sign up for a painting class. If you like swimming, sign up for a swim meetup, right? So that you have an opportunity to have something in common already with those people who you're interacting with. Right? When we center a new connection where we're trying to make new friends or build new community around something we love and around something that they love also. That's already a bond there, right? So the conversation can more naturally arise around that and we have an easier time of getting to know those people. So one example I love is my mom. Actually, she was retired. She had moved to a new town and she joined a local conservancy to start volunteering and lead hikes around the desert. This was in Arizona. And she did that with a bunch of other people who also loved being out in nature and also loved hiking. And out of that opportunity where they were just all doing something they love together, she made all these new friends. And now 10 years have gone by and they're still really close. So it's easier to develop those new friendships and stretch our social muscles if there's some kind of shared experience around something we love already.

I could not agree with you more. And again, I was never looking at this stuff strategically, thank goodness I just did it. But I remember, oh, my gosh, probably eight years ago, I was in New York. There was a woman who had messaged me a few times. Anyways, I made time to go meet her for lunch. I had no idea who this woman was. She was much younger than me, not someone I would typically hang out with. Bottom line is this, we hit it off that day. You know, we became friends. Anytime I was in New York, I would make it a priority to go see her. This is eight years ago today. This woman lives right down the street from me. By chance, left New York, moved to Miami. Is one of my dearest friends in Miami, in the city, we spend so much time together. She helps me so much with business. I try to do the same for her. We were just partners in crime. And this would have never happened if I hadn't taken, you know, she hadn't sent me that DM message on LinkedIn. Not knowing me and saying, hey, if you're ever in New York, hit me up. And then me actually hitting her up and saying, hey, I'm here. Like, if you want to grab lunch or whatever, let's it do it. You have to put yourself out there because you never know what's going to happen. You never know what that can potentially turn into. Right?

You never know. And the other thing is that sometimes those aren't going to go well. Right? Sometimes you're going to meet up with that stranger and you're going to think afterward, why did I do that? That was not a good use of my time. And that's okay, right? It's literally like dating. Some dates aren't going to be the person we're going to wind up with. And that's totally okay. That's part of the. The process. So it's helpful to kind of have that mindset of experimentation and play. When we go into stretching our social muscles and try to make new friends or branch out to connecting with someone new, they're not all going to go, okay, and that's. That's fine. Just lean into it and be open to the possibility that it could and that that random stranger could end up being a lifelong friend who lives down the street from you. Or they might not. And that's okay, too.

Well, there's no doubt that having great connections and having deep connections does make you so much happier. Like, just even acknowledging some of the things that you're teaching us today is making me feel so much better and more apt to try later tonight when I'm out At dinner, like, to meet new people and remind myself that's something I'm in charge of and I can do. For anyone, Cassie, that's saying, hey, the Art and Science of Connection. That's for me. I need to get this book. Book. Where can they get your new book? Where can they find you? How can they start breaking through and developing connections in their life?

Sure. So the book is available anywhere books are sold, so go to your local independent bookstore, go online. You can get it on Amazon anywhere you want. So, yeah, definitely check that out. I also write a newsletter where I share the latest research and practical tips on a regular basis. So if you go to my website, Kazly Killam, you can join that and also find me on social media at Casley Killam, where I share many more tips on a regular basis.

All right. The book is the Art and Science of Connection. Go get it. Make this world a better place, a happier place. And it starts with you and the changes you can make today. This is a great one for you, Cassie. Thank you so much for the work you're doing. I love it, love it, love it. I'm so here for it. I appreciate you taking the time today to be with us.

Thank you, Heather. This was fun.

All right. Check out the book, the Art and Science of Connection. Until next week, Keep creating your confidence. You know I will be. I decided to change that dynamic. I couldn't be more excited for what you're gonna hear. Start learning and growing. Inevitably something will happen. No one succeeds alone.

You don't stop and look around once in a while. You could miss it.

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