#5: Telling Your Story with Kindra Hall

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Hi and welcome back to Creating Confidence.

I'm so excited that you're back with me. I appreciate it so much. So I'm really excited about this episode because I love my Guest. However, I'm excited to bring this episode to you because this is what you keep asking me. I keep getting DMs and comments on my post about how do you speak publicly, how do you become a public speaker, how do you get started? And like you, I have been right there. I didn't know. I literally have no idea. I left corporate America, this very clear, linear world, and entered this world I knew absolutely nothing about. And I've just been making my way trying to figure it all out. And some days are easier than others and some days are incredibly challenging. However, I figured some of this stuff out. So the speaking thing is one portion I've figured out and one of the ways I did that is I was connected to a very successful, successful speaker who is years ahead of me. It's actually my guest today and I guess it was a year ago probably when we were first introduced and she spent some time on the phone with me really explaining how to get some things done and it helped immensely. So I want to give you an overview of what I've learned. So Speak, the speaking business is huge. It's extremely profitable. People make anywhere from $10,000 for a keynote, upwards of 500,000 for a 60 minute keynote and it depend on who you are and obviously a number of different things. Past presidents make a lot more money than I currently do. So but it's a very, it's a rewarding career, it's a great business and it's definitely something that if you have an inkling that you want to tell your story and take a stage, you need to take some steps to do. So the first thing that I did was I was challenged by someone to get out of my comfort zone and take a stand up comedy class, which I did not love doing. But when I did it, one of the things I realized is I had a very easy time standing on stage telling my story. It wasn't hard for me. And that's it. That doesn't have to be the way it is for you. In fact, I want to highlight that the way that I came into the speaking business is completely the opposite way of how my guests came into the speaking business.

So.

So success doesn't have to look one way. You don't have to do it just one way. The way I do it or the way she did it, you can do it your way and you can create success. However that looks for you. It doesn't have to be linear. In fact, it won't be. So I didn't even know people got paid for speeches. I had been speaking for over two decades in corporate America and no one paid me back then. I just did my job and that was part of the deal. And I started speaking for charities and emceeing events while I was still in corporate America. And, and then I launched my personal brand. And all of these things were small steps that were taking me towards something bigger, something that I didn't even know existed. So it's important for you to keep your eyes open in your life. What steps are you taking? Where is the road taking you that maybe you don't even realize exists yet? But one of the key things is.

To meet different people, talk to people.

In different industries, different parts of the country. Because connecting those dots together is really going to help you see what potential is out there, what history you're not aware of yet, what opportunity, what white space exists that you just haven't found yet. So connecting those dots are critical. So I was, I took the comedy class. I started seeing that speaking was something, and it was a, was a power of mine. I, I started taking more stages. Any type of charity event that I could take, I would go. I was, I had been speaking for years as a sales leader and leading my teams and at different events within the industry I was in, but again, never got paid for it. So when I got fired and I wrote my first book, Confidence Creator, I did a lot of homework on how do you sell books? And I found out speaking is one of the best ways to sell books. So I said, oh great, I can do that. So the first thing I did, and this is a big Gary Vee ism, is I spoke for free. And I spoke for free for gosh, it was at least six months, it might have been eight. And the reason why I did that is I wanted to sell my book. I needed to get my book out there. And I had been told this worked. So I started going to different companies that I knew, reaching out to people and saying, hey, I'd love to bring my message of confidence creation to you. Here's how it's going to bring you value. And I'm not even going to charge you for coming. I just, you know, I really want to share my message. And what that would do is it would sell a lot of books for me. People would like the message. I would talk about what you're going to learn from the book and then that would drive book sales. So that was sort of all I thought there was from speaking. I didn't still really understand. Well, during this time, I met Someone who is focused on building brands. And she shared with me, you might want to think about becoming a professional speaker. And I said, well, how do you go about doing that? And we had this whole dialogue that you need a speaker reel and a speaker kit and a speaker page, and you need rave reviews of your work. And so I thought, okay, I'm speaking for free. I can get this stuff from the people I'm speaking for for. So I started asking, and I want you to ask, no matter what your job is, whether you're a speaker or not, it doesn't matter. Ask people when they say to you, hey, you did a great job today. Wow, thank you. Do you mind putting that in an email form so I can use it for my LinkedIn profile or my website? You know, you want to convert those opportunities in that moment when someone's giving you good feedback.

And if you know you did great.

At something and no one said anything, ask them, hey, how did that presentation that I did go for you?

Did you like it?

Are you happy with the work I've done? Would you be willing to write a review for me? So we live in a review and recommendation world, and it's on each one of us to convert those opportunities and capitalize on them. I have a testimonial page on my website all about what it's like to work with me, to read my book, to see me speak. I really try to make sure that I don't need to be the one singing my own praise when I have other people willing to do it for me. But again, it's key and critical. Do it in the moment, because a week later, two weeks later, people get busy and move on. So wherever you are in your job, make sure that next time you get great feedback, jump on it and convert it into a review for you. And at least put it on LinkedIn if you don't have your own site yet. So all this was going on, and my book was coming out, and my book started taking off, and I had realized, oh, there's agents out there that book speakers, and speakers get paid a lot of I need an agent. Well, first of all, this is, you know, mic drop moment. People look for agents and want agents, but when you're actually ready for an agent, an agent will find you. And the reason why that is the case, and I'm so familiar with this business now as we're sitting here over a year and a half later, is that speaker agents work on commission, so they want to book Bill Clinton because he gets paid $500,000 a keynote. They don't want to spend time pitch junior Sally, who just started a speaking career because she's only getting paid $10,000 a speech. So you do the math. And it's obvious it makes sense. Speaker agents spend their time, energy and effort booking and pitching the highest profile speakers that garner the most money because that way they make more money, right? So it makes a lot of sense. So I spent quite a bit of time pitching myself early on to speaker agencies and being told no and being told I'm not unique. And then my book, conference creator, trump Trump for number one on Amazon business Biography. And I took that screenshot and I sent it to Harry Walker. And when they saw that pitch that I sent, I. I told them why I am unique, why I am a viable speaker for them, and how my speaking career is going to take off and what that trajectory will look like and how it will bring value to them. You know, always making it about them. And that's when I got back the yes. So they. They picked me up. I didn't know back then they weren't going to be out hustling, pitching me. They would handle inbound requests for me, but it was on me to get out and hustle and pitch me. So that's what I did. And I got right back to sales, because that's all this really is, is sales. So I got back out to pitching myself to speak and speaking at different speaking engagements so I could build up my reel. Then the reel is different shots and video footage of you speaking on different for different audiences and then showcasing the reviews that you have. So I was out and about doing this and speaking so many places for free, when finally someone, I don't even remember exactly how it happened, I contacted someone pitching them on me, and they said, what do you charge? And so I had to make up a number I didn't know. And in the beginning on anything, it's super scary because you wonder, am I worth that? But I had seen enough other speakers out there that I knew. I started saying, yeah, I am worth that. And then this is something I remember, too. I had done Elena Cardone's show, her podcast, and when I got home after meeting with her and enjoyed being with her, I googled her and I saw she was charging $50,000 for her keynote. And I thought, whoa, okay, that inspires me that I got to kick up my pricing a little bit here because, you know, I definitely know that she's a strong woman, strong speaker, but I know that I am, too. And I've got, you know, 20 plus years speaking publicly and speaking in corporate America. I need to start charging more. So there's been a lot of different steps and missteps along the way. And finally I decided I can't keep giving away my service if I want to be valued for that. And it's not fair if some people pay and some people don't pay. So I decided to create a solution where if people couldn't afford my service, I would try to work out a solution with them. For example, you know, you could pay for a portion of it through your social media and promoting me because that will help expand my reach. And, you know, we just have to do the math and work out the numbers to make sure it's worth it for me. But the idea of me speaking anymore for free was done and it actually came back to bite me. I had spoken for a large bank and they were telling everyone in their company what a great speaker I was. When other banks, parts of the country, reached out from the same brand, asking for me to speak, and I told them my rate, they said, but we heard you spoke for the one in Florida for free. Why would we pay you? And so it is important. At some point you have to draw. You know, you speak for free, you work for free to learn and create expertise and feedback and reviews and recommendations. But then you get to a point and you're hurting yourself by speaking for free or doing something else for free. So I did what I had to do until I didn't have to do it any longer. Then I had the reel was done. Then I had a speaker kit which essentially showcases what audiences will get when I come in to speak, what knowledge am I imparting, what is the value prop for that audience? And then I showcase. If I'm speaking for women, this is a takeaway. If I'm speaking for men and women in the workforce, this is a takeaway. If I'm speaking for athletes, this is a takeaway. So you really refine the different approach and pitch to the very specific audience that you could potentially be working with and cater to them so they get the most value for it. So along that way, I was connected to our guest today, and she's light years ahead of me. Actually, we find out it's four years ahead of me that she is, and she's doing exceptionally well. Literally the top of the top. And you can Google her. You will see the stages this woman has taken and you can just imagine the value that she is getting in return for it. So she's blown up and she deserves it. She's such a talented person, such a great message to spread. I'm so excited and proud of her. But she spent an hour on the phone with me when I had no idea what I was doing. And she helped me to have a really strong realization. I was fishing in the wrong pool. And what I mean by that is I was out pitching myself and hustling and it's a numbers game and I had a goal in mind and I was chasing it down and I was getting no's and my pitch was getting better. I was filling in the gaps. I was getting the reel done, I was getting the speaker kit done. I was refining my approach. However, through that whole time period, I was still focusing on the space I knew. I was focusing on friends that I had in my community and the companies they worked for because that was easy. I was focusing on my past career in media because that's who I knew. And I had so many contacts, it was easy to call people and ask if I could speak for them. However, that small pool that I had, they did not pay speakers. So as I began to create pricing boundaries and increase pricing, I was seeing that people couldn't afford it. I was pitching the wrong potential customer. And so can what I want to say. Oh, I guess I'll say. My guess is Kendra, Kendra, open my eyes to this. And she let me know, you're fishing in this pool that doesn't have the fish you want. So jump out of that pool, get into the other one. There's this old, this other pool over here and it's got everybody you want in it. And so she said to me, target people go on and look at speakers and look who they've spoken for.

Write a list.

Those are the companies you want to speak for. Those are the ones that have the budget. Heather, then she taught me about associations. And associations is the mothership of how to really get paid in the speaking business. So I want you to take this information and know this did not happen overnight for me. This has been. I had a 20 year plus career in corporate America speaking every single day, not getting paid for it. Then I went out on my own and for the past year and a half, I've been building and refining my approach.

Now I do.

I am a paid public speaker. I am with GDA People Speakers. I am with Harry Walker Speaker Agency. I do have agency representation. However, it's still on me most of the time to pitch myself. So if you want to make something happen, you need to Move fast, break things, and figure it out along the way, through tapping others, through helping other people, and oftentimes working for free. In order to create the experience and expertise you need to get ahead and then you need to start valuing yourself, which that's scary too. So the whole thing is a process. I definitely have learned so much about this business and again, this is not unique to the speaking business. I've also gone through similar experiences with the elearning business with my video course, and now I'm going through it with.

Podcasting right here with you right now. Yay, fam.

Thanks for being with me. So I keep entering into new business segments and trying to figure out how do I best connect these dots, how do I optimize things, how can I become more efficient, better, and how do I get to that next level? And it's about continually being scared and not knowing, but showing up as a beginner and taking those steps each day, each week, and now each year. So I'm really excited for you to meet Kendra today. She blows me away and the trajectory she's had is beyond impressive, but it definitely inspires me to my potential. And having her raise the bar on what how much money you can make and how much speakers make, it's just, it's really exciting. So whatever it is that you want to do, know that you don't have to have all the answers today to figure it out. Just keep going forward because one of these days you're going to get connected to a Kendra or someone who's leap years, tens of years ahead of you, and that person might share some insight that you weren't previously aware of. And now you start connecting the dots on your own. So I'm really excited for you to meet my next guest, Kendra Hall.

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So welcome back. I'm so glad you're joining me today and I'm so excited to for you to meet my guest. Kendra hall is President and Chief Storytelling Officer at Stellar Collective, a consulting firm focused on the strategic application of storytelling to today's communication challenges. Kendra is one of the most sought after keynote speakers and that is fact trusted by global brands to deliver presentations and trainings that inspire teams individuals to better communicate the value of their company or product. What began as a storytelling assignment in fifth grade grew into a passion not only for telling stories, but a true mastery for teaching others the methods and science of storytelling, which I had no idea about. So I'm so excited for you guys to meet her. She was a national champion storyteller. That is so weird. Member of the Board of Directors of National Storytelling Network, didn't know that existed and has a master's degree in Communications. She conducted original research studying the role of storytelling in defining and revealing organizational culture. Kendra is a former Director of Marketing, VP of Sales and today Kendra's work can be seen Inc.com, entrepreneur.com, she's an Editor for Success magazine. Kendra's message spans all industries. Her clients include the top of the Facebook, Hilton Hotels, Tyson Foods, Berkshire Hathaway, and Harvard Medical School. That's a big one. Regardless of the industry, Kendra has become a conference favorite for her clients. The blend of inspiration and education in her keynote means that audiences leave feeling excited and equipped to finally put their stories to work. Kendra lives in Manhattan with her husband, young son and daughter. And when she's not traveling, she could be on a spin bike where she used to be a spin teacher. But Kendra, we need to add and author of stories that stick to this bio.

I know, I know. Maybe the bio is it's obsolete now or it's at least dated.

There's a whole new iteration and that's something I'm really excited to talk with you about. Today is your new book. So thank you so much for making time. I know that you've been all over the world and I appreciate you being here.

Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be a Part of this movement that you're creating to be right here at the beginning is awesome.

Oh, good. I'm so glad. All right, so to give a little.

Background, Kendra and I were introduced from a mutual friend. And Kendra is such a nice person. I want everybody to know this, that she genuinely helped me out and really gave me some insights and strategy around my business at a time when I was trying to figure things out, and I was very confused. So Kendra's the real deal. You definitely have to check her out on Instagram. I follow her. And definitely some of the questions that I came up with for today come from following you on social, because you really bear a lot about yourself, where you are and the things that your stories that are happening as they unfold, which I think is really cool to follow.

Yeah. And, you know, I've learned, I think, you know, being a storyteller and then marrying that with, you know, the necessity of social media in business and building a brand. What's fascinating is the posts that get the most response and engagement and sharing and reposting are the ones where I am telling a story that is, you know, has some degree of vulnerability there. And I think that people are hungry for stories and they're hungry to know the real story, the true story, the story behind the story. So I know. I love following you there, and it's how fun. Like, we feel like we know each other. Right. And we've never actually met in person.

I know. That's so tragic. We have to change that.

I know.

We will change that soon in one of these cities.

We will.

Yeah.

So one of the things I want to start out with today, and I'm asked so much about this, and I know you are as well, is how do you get into public speaking? How do you become a professional speaker? And like, you, you know, Kendra, you're so far beyond, you know, success in that arena, and so many people just don't understand. How do you get from ground zero to the top of the top? Can you walk us through how that works?

Yeah, definitely. Well, and I think to your. I think to your point and your whole message, a lot of it just has to do with confidence, which is funny. I say that, like, I feel like I. That was always the thing that was missing from me, so I just went forward on the actions and hoped that the confidence would follow. But for me, you know, I always. When I was growing up, I was on the speech team. I was very popular. Heather, you should know that. Just like all this, that sounds so tragic. I know it's very popular. But it did, it made sure it like desensitized me to that. The fact of having to speak in front of people like that was something I knew how to do. I still get nervous about it. It's still very intimidating, it's still very intense. But it was training that I had had. So that was great. But I think ultimately the key to getting into, getting into, if you will, public speaking is to figure out what the message is that you want to share with the world. What is your story? And I say that where I feel like people think that if they don't have like some huge big story, like if they didn't climb Mount Everest, if they weren't diagnosed with a terminal disease and overcame it, that they don't have a story that's worth sharing. That is certainly not the case. You have an experience experience. If you, if you have any desire to get into public speaking as a career, as a profession, on whatever level, it means that there's a message, there's a story inside you that wants to get out. So I think you go ahead and first trust that instinct. But be very clear on what your message is. And then number two, who wants to, who wants to hear that message? Who's going to resonate with it? Who would that message make?

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That makes sense.

Those are the first two steps.

So one of the things that, you know, I figured out trying to get into the speaking career or getting paid.

To speak was that I needed to.

Speak for free first. Would you agree with that?

Yeah, that was a big. Which is. I don't know, it sometimes feels a little bit demoralizing. Right. And there's a lot of debate now about whether or not you should work for free. Like should you paint murals for free as you're trying to gain clients? Should you do consulting for free when you are you devaluing yourself? And I actually just wrote an article for Success magazine that was about this, about the importance. I think they titled that. I can't take credit for the title. They did this, the pro of pro bono. What a great title. Right? But the reality is, the reality is when you're just getting started, particularly in speaking, you need to test your message. You need to you need to put it through. You need to put it through some audiences. You need to put it through the fire. I will say, yeah, like one of the first present. Like one of the first speeches I gave. It wasn't the first, but it was one of the first. It was not good, Heather. Like, I kept. I didn't. They had a handheld, and I wasn't good with the handheld. I didn't use any slides because I was like, I'm a storyteller. I don't need any slides. Everybody was kind of lost. It didn't make much sense. It was. I finished. And here's somebody who's a national champion story. Like, I know how to speak. But I hadn't put in the reps on this particular message, on this particular thing that I was sharing. And it wasn't good. It was a good thing they didn't pay me because I would have had to give them their money back. I'm pretty sure it was devastating for me. But I do think that. That you have to. You should like, you should get paid when you're like, this is worth being paid for. But the only way to get to that point, particularly in speaking, is by doing it well.

And the other point I want to.

Add on to what you just said.

Is not only do you want to make sure you're good enough, and this is a practice vehicle that's allowing you to test the material, as you said, but also you need to develop a speaker reel, because no one's gonna hire a speaker. And I didn't know this a year ago. You know, I thought my resume spoke for itself. Obviously, I would be a good speaker. Well, no one was offering me money to come in until I had a developed speaker reel. Reviews, rave reviews, and then a speaker kit. I didn't know any of that stuff was necessary.

Yeah, I. And I think it can also sound more complicated than it.

So.

Speaker reel. So I put together my first speaker reel and it was pretty much a clip of me talking in my sales position that I'd had several years before mushed together with some direct to camera stuff that I had done, like for my blog or that was up on YouTube and then a bunch of fonts that kind of moved all around that said as seen in. And I, like, I don't. I didn't make things up. It was all true, but none of it, like, really. So it was. It was very, very basic. The video wasn't good, but it was enough that people could get a flavor, in a sense for me on stage. And Then once I sent that with an email, they would take a look. But yeah, they won't take a look unless you have some sort of video. So that's an important thing. This is something you're thinking about and you're like, oh, I don't have a huge professional design demo. Reels, speaker reel. No, just get some clips of you. And if you don't have those clips. And this is the other part, when I was then wanting to get to the next level, is if it was an event that maybe didn't pay but had a video crew there, or I could bring a video crew in, it was basically like, I will work for video because I need better clips. Right. To prove that I was good at what I was doing. Right.

That makes a lot of sense.

So now you've got the reel set.

Up, and that was a good solution you came up with to get around having a big produced reel.

Because a lot of those challenges will stop people cold.

Stop you? Yeah. It shouldn't stop you. Yep, totally.

So I could have had a real done so far before I did, and now I'm annoyed that I didn't think of that.

So, okay, you have the reel done. You've got, you know, an outline of what your story is going to be that you're going to share with the world and why you. The unique value proposition as well as, you know, some type of a kit, something you can send to people. Here's what you open my eyes to. I was fishing in a pool with companies and businesses that didn't allocate dollars for speakers. And you opened my eyes to that. Associations were this different pool that you could fish in that had billions of dollars available for speakers. So how do you direct people to that area?

So I would say the next. So the next step after. Well, it's not. None of it. You know how they show that graphic of like, point A to point B and this is success. What you think it looks linear, but it's actually like all these loops and, like, devastating lows. But. So I'm not exactly sure the per se, but I do remember I was at an event that I just randomly got invited to because they read an article that I, like, did online or something, and they said, hey, would you come speak to our event about storytelling? And I was like, yes. And they said, what do you charge? And I just, like, threw out a number I didn't know. And then they wrote me back and said, we can pay you this much? And I said, yes. So I went and spoke. But when I was there. I met a young man who was also a speaker, and he was further along than I was, and he was like, yeah, people get paid, like 10 grand to do this, this. And I was like, wait, what? How much can I make? So I asked him. Like, we both spoke at the event. We were both still there the next day. And so I went up and I bought him a coffee, and I said, what? So, what should I do next? And he said, well. And he was kind of just. I don't know. He didn't, you know, like, I don't think sometimes when you give advice to people who are just a few steps behind you, you don't realize how important that advice is going to be. He was like, well, just find some people that might want to hear about what you're doing. He's like, I don't know. Reach out to some CVB's, like, customer or what is that? What does CVB stand for? It's like a Traveler and Visitors Bureau, but Convention and Visitors Bureaus. He's like, I don't know. Reach out to some CVB's and see if they know. So it wasn't. That wasn't the best advice because I did reach out to CVV's and nobody wrote me back. But what I did do in that moment, what he really was saying was think of people who would want to hear the message that you have to deliver and then reach out to them. So I set a goal for myself to reach out to 100 events, people, organizations. 100 a week for six weeks.

Wow.

So I would sit down in front of my Excel spreadsheet and I would spend the first couple days of the week, like, looking up, and I would Google women in Business, and it would show me all these associations for women in business, women's events. So. And then I would put each one into the spreadsheet with the email, with the phone number, with the address, whatever, and then I would Google marketing conferences because, of course, my message is storytelling and about using story in marketing and using story in business and using stories and sales, like, oh, I feel like marketing would like what I'm doing. And I found, you know, a bunch of marketing events. And the American Marketing association was a big one for me. I found the American Marketing association, one of their chapters, and I was like, oh, well, if they have Wisconsin chapters, certainly they have, you know, Michigan chapter, or. And so then all of a sudden, I found, like, 70 chapters. So that was a good day for me because I'm like, oh, that's like 70 of my 100. And then I just sat down at the end of the week and methodically emailed each one of them. I sent them a really short email. This is what I do. This is what it'll do for you. Here's a link to my video. I actually didn't attach any PDFs or packages, if you will, because I didn't want the email to get caught in their spam folder. So I just sent it with a link to the video. And then if they wanted more, they could write me. And I would always say, if you're not the person to speak to about this, because with associations, the leadership changes frequently. I said, would you please pass it to the person who does make the decisions? Thank you so much. It was very gracious, very. Because it was like, please, somebody just help me. I need your help to make this happen. Well, after the six weeks, I did send out 600. And I heard back from. I didn't hear back from all 600 of them, but I did hear back from a handful. And a handful is all I needed. So then I spoke for a few of those. I started getting those reviews and then it just, it went from there. So I spoke. I remember one day I spoke for the Indianapolis chapter. And now this is one of my. It was probably like my fourth or fifth keynote and it was really, it was getting really good. And I remember speaking at that event and being like, there were 75 people there for the luncheon. Being like, I finished. And I was like, yes, like, that's it. Like, I did it. And I got four. I think it was four calls from that event and four different jobs just from that one event. And yeah, they don't, they don't pay. When you go speak at the luncheon, you know, they, maybe they pay your travel, but the people in the room were the decision makers of people that then have that hire speakers for their company events. So, yeah, I mean, it was a lot of like, I would come home every night, my eyes would be all crossed from, like sitting there and I'm like, I'm a storyteller. And here I am just like digging into this Excel spreadsheet. But it changed everything.

How many years ago was that?

About four years ago, though. Hold on, let me put this on the year or the month thing.

That's actually not that long. Kendra, when you think about how you were struggling just to find paid speaking gigs and to find that right audience for you and to refine your presentation, to go from that real low level beginner spot, to being one of the top. Definitely one of the top female keynote speakers in the United States.

It was. It did go. It went very quickly. Sometimes when it works, it just works. And I know that my. Like, my trajectory was faster than some people's and more and slower than others. So I think that's an important thing, is to not compare yourself to other people. Because I can get. I can get into that trap. And there are people, you know, that I follow, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, look at them. Look at them go. Look at them. They're always trapped. They're always, you know, like, look at all these great audiences or these great stages that you get. And then you don't. You don't realize the people who are watching you or, you know, that we all have a different story.

Well, and I think it's important to share this, that when you and I first spoke and we were connected, you.

Thought I was so much further along.

Than I actually was. Just based off what you had seen on social media.

Oh, yeah.

You don't always get the whole story of what's really going on. And I had so much to learn from you.

You know, it's interesting to me because.

You and I went about this. This complete polar opposite. You know, you really launched into your passion at a much younger age. And, you know, you took that leap and that risk to jump full into becoming a speaker. And I remember you from social media sharing a story where someone told you not to do that.

Yeah. Yeah, I was. I was working in a sales job, and I just knew. I just knew it wasn't the right place to be anymore. And maybe it's because I'm on the cusp of being a millennial. Like, I was graduated high school in 99, right? And they say it's like 99 2. So I had this, like, that, like, edge of. Like, I can do whatever I want to do. Like, I should be whatever I wanted to be. And I was actually at a spin class sitting next to this gentleman who was a very successful business, very, very, very successful businessman. And I was just sitting next to him. It was like 5am I was there for a 5:30am spin class. And I was like, you know what? I think I'm gonna leave my job. And he's like, and do what? And I said, I think I'm gonna be a speaker. Like, I wanna be a keynote speaker. He looked to be in sex. Well, don't you have to be, like, successful at something first? And he just said, like, I know. And it was. And that's the thing is, like, people who work out at 5am in the morning, they're gonna give it to you straight. Like, they've got no time for nonsense. They're there for a reason because they've got a full day and night ahead of them. And he did. He gave it to me straight and crushed my poor little soul in that moment, I will not lie. But it did get me thinking. It started getting me thinking, okay, so I guess here's the thing. It didn't make me think, I can't do this. Maybe it did for a minute, but then I thought, well, I can either wait to become successful at something, or is there something that I'm already successful at that I just haven't really thought of in that way? And that's when the idea of storytelling, something that I've been doing my whole life, something that I'd studied in my master's thesis, something that I was doing on the side for nonprofit organizations and certainly doing in my role in marketing and sales, I was like, wait a minute, I know this. Like, what if I did something to do with storytelling? Now? I didn't know what that was at the time. And then it all came back together where I was like, oh, yeah, maybe I'll be a keynote speaker about storytelling. Which, let me tell you, four years ago wasn't a thing. Like, people weren't talking about storytelling the way that they are now. And that's the other day is people like, oh, it's so obvious you talk about storytelling. Do you have any idea how difficult it was to tell? People hire me, pay me money, and I'm gonna teach you about storytelling. They thought that I was coming to, like, read stories to them. Like, people didn't get it. And so it's funny how as time goes on, things look so obvious. They always look obvious in hindsight after the fact, right? Yep, exactly. So, yeah, that's. I was definitely. I wasn't told not to necessarily, but it was. Was highly implied. I suppose you could say you have to be successful first.

Well, you also have been faced with a lot of adversity along the way that other people might not be aware of. And one story that you shared really resonated with me. When you were about to take a major stage and another woman gave you a massive blow. Can you share that story?

Yeah, I mean, it was. It was a really high stakes. And it was again, it wasn't like for a big amount of money, but I was speaking for peers like other people who speak that's intimidating. Yeah, speaking for speakers is the worst. It's the best if you, if you do it flawlessly. It's the worst if you mess up even a little bit. Like, there's. I'm really critical when I watch other speakers, I'm really critical of myself. So of course a whole room full of people like that, that's, that's just, it comes with the territory. But this was at a local event. It was just like a little chapter event. And I was just about to get on stage to speak for my peers. Super intimidating. I was still really new in the speaking world and so that was, that was intimidating as well. And this woman came up to me and said, oh, so you're, you're the speaker this morning. I was like, uh huh, yeah. And she's like, huh, I've been wanting to speak here for years, but now I guess I know what I was doing wrong. I'm not young enough or pretty enough to speak here. And then so definitely implying that that is what, what got me there. Which is funny because I don't ever think that, that my beauty is going to get. We never think that about ourselves. Right? Like, I, at least I don't, I'm not, I'm not gonna say like, hey, it's beauty's gonna get. Like. I knew I had to work for things because beauty wasn't going to get me there. But to have somebody say that to you right there and quite succinctly take away, strip away any merit that you might actually have for being there. I think I would have been a lot more devastated about it if they hadn't called my name right at that moment. They were like, okay, everybody sit down. It's time for our speech. Like, it was like, it was that quick. Now, as it turns out, once I get on stage, for the most part, I usually forget everything else. And when I finished, it was like, it just. They were. Speakers can be the best audience too, because they'll like, they'll give it to you. If they can tell that you're giving it to them, they will give it right back to you. And it's a beautiful thing. And it was a beautiful moment. It's a beautiful morning. And when I finished, she did come back up to me and say, now I see why you were chosen to speak.

It's important for people to know that.

You'Re going to be faced with adversity, you're gonna be faced with haters. And it's about still taking the stage.

Instead of letting those people you know.

Tap into your fear and run with it.

But hearing your name get called and just. It's like Pavlov's Law. Like, you. Just as soon as you heard it, you just got right up there and you took action. And, you know, it's. But that comes from, you know, in my belief, practice, and experience, I. The way that I do the same thing, because I deal with a lot of adversity and haters out there, is I use music to really trigger that thought process for me. So I have a certain playlist that I use, and I. Once someone comes at me with some negative, ridiculous stuff, if it's getting to me a little, I hit that playlist and I remember, oh, no. Remember who you are, kid. You got this.

You have made.

And I immediately go into that mindset the same way that when you heard your name called, you got right into your zone. And. And that's the key to, you know, leapfrog those villains.

Well.

And I really think that this is something that I heard from. And now I can't remember who you have. Like, having haters means you're doing something right. Like, if you don't, you're. You're playing too. You're just too safe. Right. Like, the reason that woman was upset is because it looked like I just. Like, she'd been doing this for so long, you know, like, it looked like I. There must have been some shortcut that I took. Is. Had to have been how she saw it. And I get that. Like, I. I can't imagine how frustrating that must have been in those minutes before seeing what I could actually do. To think that she just got bypassed by somebody who didn't earn it or work for it. And then when I could show that I earned my space there, it was better. But I think that you have to have the haters. Like, I'll get negative comments here and there, and every time, like, it stings and it bothers me. Yes. But every time I'm like, yes, all right, I'm pissing somebody off. Like, that's good. That's good. Because usually I don't. I like to play really safe, so, I don't know, I try to switch it around that way.

So one of the things I want to talk a little bit about your book, Stories that Stick, which just came out. It's unbelievable. Really easy read because you are such a great storyteller. So in the book, you share with the reader how they can tell their story, find their story, and deliver it. And you talk in one of the Chapters about that fear of perfection, in fact, that you were so perfect in one instance, it allowed you to fail.

Yeah.

I think that. That when it comes to. When it comes to storytelling, certainly practicing and being very intentional and having. Having the right. Like if you're in sales, for example, and you are going in and you're giving this. You're giving pitches to pretty much the same kinds of people, the same kind of pitch over and over again. You should have your set of stories that you tell. Right. And that you tell over and over and over again with each new piece. Pitch. The key to storytelling and to make it really effective is in this particular instance in the book, is I had practiced it so much that it was so perfect that when I got up on stage, I was basically just reciting the words like I might as well have been reading it off a piece of paper. And I completely forgot or disconnected from the fact that the thing that makes storytelling work so well, the thing that makes it so good, is that storytelling happens in concert with the other. It isn't just about you in front of the room, you know, in front of the boardroom or on the stage. It's as much about the audience as it is about you. And if you get too wrapped up in telling the perfect story, you will be too internally focused to create that concert, that conversation with the people who are listening. I had this big event, and I wanted to perform, and I wanted it to be great, and I practiced it to death. And so when I got up on stage, I said all the words, and it was just very blah, blah, blah, and it fell flat.

So you could even fall flat as a speaker. That's. That's shocking to me.

I know. We get in our own heads, right? Like, that was. That was a story for storytellers. That was actually at a storytelling festival. And again, I. I let it get in my head, and I tried to make it too perfect, and in doing so, I just killed it. Such a bummer.

Such a bummer. But you will get back on that stage again.

I just know you will.

You absolutely will.

So one of my favorite chapters in the book, surprisingly, is the first chapter, when you tell the story of the JFK perfume line.

Yes, I know. That's my favorite chapter, too. It's all downhill from there, folks. Yeah, it's not even the first chapter. It's just the intro. No, but it's a. Well, you have to read it because it's. I don't know. It's like my favorite. It's one of my favorite Stories. But it was an instance where I was shopping with my husband, except I wasn't supposed to be shopping. My husband is one of those people who just. When I say we go, I'm going shopping, he just. He just loses all the color in his face. He gets a real grimace.

It's just not real life like most men I know.

Isn't that. But see, that's the key there, because it's this story. Do you know how many women. Now, only the advanced copies are out right now because the book doesn't come out until September 24th. So at the time we're recording this, only a few people have it in their hands. But every woman who has it in their hands, and even a few of the men have said, I had to read it out loud to my spouse or I had to read it out loud to my partner, because it's this story that I go in to buy something. My husband doesn't ever want to buy anything. And then suddenly, he's standing by the cologne counter, and the clerk starts trying to sell my husband a bottle of cologne. But not only does my husb. Husband not ever buy anything, he believes that his own scent is good enough for the world. So he doesn't. So, like, this sale was not happening.

No.

How no.

This was.

It was just. There was no way. I just can't even tell you how impossible this sale was. And by the end of it. So I won't tell the whole story here, but by the end of that sale, the sales clerk, who's just this young guy, like, he couldn't have been any older than, like, 20, 22, told this incredible story. By the end of it, my husband said, I will take it. And not only that, like, he wanted the cologne so bad, because the guy so masterfully told this story, he made us go back to the shop the next day to see if they'd gotten a shipment in, because after the cologne guy sold us the cologne, they were all out. No wonder, because this guy probably came, sells this cologne, like, turns it up that he's so good at it, that my husband, who doesn't buy things and doesn't wear cologne, wanted to go back the next day, a Saturday morning, in case they got a shipment in Friday night. This is how extreme and how powerful a story can be. Like, we so often, we think, because we think we're so smart and we think we're so evolved, we think that we make decisions based on logic and information, but we don't. We make decisions based on how we feel the pictures that we create within our own. And here's the other thing. I think it's important. Like we don't like to think that we can be convinced by other people, right? Like when we're being sold something by somebody else, we have our walls up. But when you use stories to sell, like this clerk did to sell this bottle of cologne, he kind of like just implanted the story in my husband's head. And my husband sold himself because all the sales clerk had to do was put that story in there. So now not only have you alleviated the whole mess with trying to sell with logic, but you're not trying to convince them anymore. They've convinced themselves based on the story that you told. So I don't know. That's my if you if for no other reason, you get the book, just get it for that. Just get it for that chapter as.

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Well it's also a great example as.

Someone who's been in sales leadership roles for most of my career.

Such a great example that when you do go back the next day you are encountered with another salesperson who just sells price point qualities of the app scent and you would have never even shown interest nor bought or nor stopped nor would have your husband ever considered it again. And it was such a great comparison of how people can be selling the identical product. But one is done with story and one is absent of story and the outcome is entirely different.

Oh yeah, we never. Are you kidding? I mean not only. I mean, it's the opening chapter of a book. Like, there is, and because of the story that was told. But if we had heard the first. If we'd heard the second pitch first, which was the ingredients that were in there and, like, how many fluid ounces are in the bottle or whatever, just the nonsense that any typical salesperson would sell. It was a. It was a older woman who was there the second day. The young clerk wasn't there anymore. And we never would have thought twice about it. And keep in mind, we were sold, and we hadn't even smelled the cologne. My husband then came home. We got back. This happened actually in Eastern Europe. It happened in Slovenia. Very good storytelling storytellers over there. We got back, and my husband went online and bought a bottle, and we have it here in our house. It doesn't smell good. Like, he always tries to wear it. He tries to wear it. I'm like, oh, did you put the eight bob on again? It just doesn't smell that good. But we just. He loves wearing it because he just. It takes him back to that moment, to that memory, to that story.

So, Kendra, with having a book coming.

Out, with having launched a speaking career.

When people told you not to, having.

Taken some of the largest stages that.

There are, when is the moment for you that you can look back to.

To think, wow, this is when I.

Was really struggling with my confidence.

I struggle with my confidence daily. I mean, I really do. Like, I don't even want to, like, tell you you this. I don't want you to know this, but, like, when I even wake up, I woke up this morning and knew I had this podcast or had another podcast or whatever, and I was like, oh, gosh, what if they, like, I don't know what I'm doing? Why am I doing this? Like, there I'm gonna be bad. I'm gonna be. And so. So I don't know. I feel like. I feel like that's. That's why I follow you so much, because I'm like. I'm like, I need to just figure out how to. Because I do feel like it's just. It's not a. I feel like it's a constant batt. Like, I have these moments of clarity of, yes, I am here. I am doing this. This is what I was meant to do. This is who I was meant to be. They need to hear what I have to say. It's going to help them in their world. I'm supposed to be at this exact moment. In fact, I deserve to Be even beyond this, because I've been working for it. I have those moments, and they're clear and they're crisp and they're beautiful, but they are only punctuation to a lot of muck. That's otherwise where I'm like, oh, gosh, what am I, you know, like, oh, I. You know, for what? Maybe it's an audience. Maybe it's a particular audience that I have to speak for. And I'm like, who do I think I am going in to speak for this audience? Like, they. I don't have the credentials that they have. I don't know. Or when I know that there's another speaker who's going to be there. And I'm like, they already heard from this person. Like, how can I. So there are. I don't know. Heather, you need to teach me the confident creation strategies. I need to learn even more from you because it's. I wish that were the constant place of operation versus the exciting moments that are.

You know what's kind of cool about what you just shared is I'm glad it isn't the constant for you, because it's not for me either. It was for a long time when I was complacent and I wasn't challenging myself to take my risks and grow. I felt somewhat really confident in my role and job at the same company for 14 years. I knew it inside out. There was nothing that was challenging. But when you take risks, when you put yourself out there and you say, I've never, you know, been a guest on podcast, I'm going to jump in and start doing that. I've never written a book. I'm going to jump in and do that. I've never taken this stage. I'm going to take that risk. That's when, you know, when you start questioning yourself. You should also applaud for yourself because you are taking that risk and you are putting yourself out there and that growth and that excitement is such a. It's an amazing feeling, even though it can be challenging in moments.

You know what? I. You just. You just made a huge difference with that steaming. Because I think about, like, for example, I exercise. Let's talk about exercise for a second here. I never used to. I started exercising regularly just 10 years ago, which of course feels like two years ago, but it was 10 years ago ago and I went to a spin class and I was. So the only reason I went to the spin class is because I had gone on this, like, extreme fast for my wedding. So I looked amazing on my Wedding day, I looked really good. I did. I looked amazing. And then I went on my honeymoon and I, like, straight up ate cheetos for breakfast. Like, anything there was to eat, I just ate all of it. So by the time I got back from my wedding, my wedding dress didn't. Or for my honeymoon, my wedding dress didn't fit already. And I was like, oh, to let yourself go so soon. So I decided. I called up my girlfriend who had been going to this spin class and which is the same spin class where I met the gentleman who told me that I needed to be successful, which wasn't completely wrong. And so she was like, okay, go to the spin class with me. And I remember going that first day, like, the first five minutes, like, you had to, you had to wear the, like, I called them feet cuffs, but they were just spin shoes. Like, I clipped it into the bike and I almost, I almost died within the first five minutes. And it was so terrifying and it was so uncomfortable. And every time I would go, I was just so nervous. But now, 10 years later, I get pissed when I'm not. When I don't reserve a bike. And, like, I can't get on my SoulCycle app in time to get a bike in the front row. Like, I, I am confident when I go into a spin class. Like, I am confident when I go for, for a three mile run. Not, not much longer than three miles. Like, I am confident when I go for it. But you know what? I have been spinning for 10 years and I know that I'm good at it. And I guess you're right. Like, I, even though I've been telling stories and using stories, I'm still actually, if you think about it, relatively new to the stage. And I will say I'm getting a lot more confident as the norm in speaking. But there are a lot of other things going on in business. I'm writing more. We just launched a workshop. We're going to host our own workshops. We're going through that whole publishing process which is new around every corner. You're right. I've never been a guest on a podcast before. Why would I feel so. I love that. I love that, that we're doing new things and you're going to feel that way when you're doing new things. We forget that this is. That this, this right here, what we're doing right now is new for me. Like, how do I forget that? I expect to be, you know, the top notch spinner when I'm on the podcast for the first time and New for me, too.

And what's interesting and people didn't get to see was when we. This is the first time I've ever recorded remotely for my show because we were not able to get a date to work and it was important. I wanted to get your message to my people. So your husband had to jump on the phone with me and help me figure out how to unmute, you know, and it's. In those moments, it can be really stressful because you're a beginner and you don't know what you're doing, but kind of owning that instead saying, hey, guys, listen, this is my first time. I have no idea what I'm doing and I need help, you know, that helps you get to that solution faster. But we're both beginners of this thing and I'm so excited. We both are. Because it's so much more fun and feels a lot versus doing something perfect that I was complacent in.

Yeah, no, I love that. I feel like it's. I feel like it's good. Yeah. We've never been. I like to keep moving and I like to keep doing things. Like, we move. We just recently literally moved from our very beautiful life in suburban Arizona. We lived on a golf course and then we moved to an apartment in New York. In New York City. Like, what? But we. I did. We felt like, okay, it's pretty much perfect here. Like, let's shake things up. So maybe that's just my natural state of being.

Heather, I'm so glad that you shook it up with stories that stick. This book is unbelievable. Please go pre order this book now if you are in sales. And listen up, everybody in the world is in sales. You are always being sold or someone is selling you. So get this book and get really clear on what your story is and put it to work for you. Follow kendrandrahall on Instagram. Definitely. And what else am I leaving out here?

I think that's the most important place. Instagram. My website is kendra hall.com and on there you can sign up to get my weekly storytelling videos, but you'll get everything you need to know if you go to Instagram.

Thank you so much, Kendra, for your time today and definitely pick up stories that stick.

I'm so glad that I did.

Thank you. Thanks, Heather.

So I hope that you loved Kendra and getting a chance to get to know her. She is a really dynamic person. So today I am not actually answering questions that were submitted to me, but instead I am going to give you two different conversations that I had with friends in my life this week that I really wanted to address and allow everybody to hear because these, these conversations can apply to so many of us. So the first one is a good friend of mine is just starting her own company. And during those times when you're unsure of yourself, you're not feeling extremely confident, you don't have a lot of experience pricing your services, knowing your value, and you can be on some unsure footing when that happens. Happens. Sometimes we don't handle things the way that we wish we could have. So I wanted to share the story with you. My friend sent a proposal over to a potential client, someone that really wants to hire her. She knew going in the person did not have a lot of money, or they were alluding to that they didn't have a lot of money because they were struggling with their company and business, but they really needed her expertise and help and they weren't sure how they could afford her. Basically trying to set her expectations on the front end that there's not a lot of money there. And what happens when you don't have a lot of experience in a business and pricing and valuing yourself is you may be taken aback by that fear and you don't want to go and hide. Anyway, what my friend did was she put together a scope of work and, you know, showed the value that she was going to be creating for the client, the potential client, and in the end, what that investment was going to be in order to deliver the goods. And the potential client came right back and said, there is no way I can afford this. This is just far beyond what I was expecting and I can't do this. So why don't I just hire you for an hour at an hourly rate and have you come in and work for me for an hour and see how that goes? Okay, well, when that happens, it's really important to take a step back and think to yourself, hang on. I have this lifetime of expertise and credibility and experience that I've built, and I don't value that on an hourly rate because the. The scope of work she had sent was, I don't remember if it was 5,000, 10,000, 15,000, whatever the dollar amount was, it was a package of services and packaging her expertise to deliver an outcome, a potential outcome for this client at an investment price that was fair for what she was bringing. Now this person is trying to nickel and dime her just to see if what type of value they can squeeze out of her in an hour. So it's important when you're faced with A situation like this, to take that step back and say, hey, Bob, just got your note. And again, if you can do it face to face, that's really ideal. Worst case, do it on the phone. Never do these things over email or text. It just doesn't translate. And you're not going to get your end goal. You're not going to achieve your goals if you do that. That's, you know, really a terrible way to handle it. So you want to get face to face. Ultimately, if you absolutely can't get, you do it over the phone. And the reason why is you want to see those people eye to eye and convey that message in your strength and belief in yourself. Because that's really what's going to allow them to know they're going to be in great hands and they can't afford not to do it. So it's reframing that idea that, listen, my business is struggling, I have no money to invest. Yeah, Bob, that's exactly why you can't afford not to do this. What you're currently doing, doings not working. This scope of work that I've sent you and solution that I've sent you is exactly what you need. And this is exactly why you can't afford not to do this. So it's really reframing that the way that client's thinking. So unfortunately, this person, Bob will call this person for just a fake name. But you know, this person, Bob, is saying, no, I'll pay you this hourly rate. How is $200 an hour? And my friend went back and said, said, well, I don't charge hourly rates. I guess I could do it for 500. Now, if you don't charge hourly rates and that's not your business model, do not move to. Okay, you're asking for an hourly rate, I will give you one. That person cannot dictate your business. And sometimes we feel so we want so bad to have that first client or have that next client or have that. We don't want to miss the potential upside. What if I can upsell them? People will treat you the way you allow them to. And allowing another person or business to dictate how your business should be valued, that's not acceptable. So it's really important to make sure that instead of caving to someone else, we stand our ground and get back to revisiting. Okay, maybe I didn't do a good enough job conveying to them the value I'm going to bring. Because here's the thing I've heard so many times, oh, I don't have a budget for that, Heather. I can't afford that. And I really like to look at it as, how can you afford not to do this? When you look at the experience I have, look at the reviews and recommendations, look at the feedback from other clients I've worked with, you know, that's going to sell them on the fact that there is tremendous value there, frankly. Frankly, I think I'm undervaluing my services, and I did that to try to meet your needs because I know you are in a bit of a pinch. However, I cannot go beneath that $15,000 price. That is the lowest that I can go. You can't afford not to make this commitment in your business, or you're going to find yourself in a worse situation if you continue down this path. Trying to hire people for an hourly rate. When something's cheap, there's not a lot of value, and I need to convey that to you. I am an investment in your business. As, you know, as you're attracted to my expertise and the value I can bring to you, you need to know you get what you pay for. And I've got tremendous results. I'd like to bring tremendous results to your business, and I like to get started. Let's revisit that scope of work I sent you. And, you know, don't allow someone else to dictate how you will price yourself. It's really, really critical. And once that situation starts and they see that they can drive your behavior and your pricing, that will be an ongoing issue that you do not want to deal with for sure. Okay. So you can't afford not to do. This is definitely the takeaway there. So don't price yourself by our price yourself as you see fit. Now, another situation came up in the past week. A good friend of mine is representing basically an agency that she started, and she represents the different clients, and one of them has a massive social media following. And she contacted me saying, hey, I want to run something by you. One of my clients wants to get into podcasting. He's got a huge social media following. I wanted to join a marquee brand and podcasting company to really help him get to the next level and do it the right way. What do you think about this deal that I'm looking at at? And she says this company wants 20% of the revenues that are coming in. That is just far too expensive. Don't you agree? That's an interesting question that I want to dig into a little bit. So the first thing that I think of is not 20% is too expensive. No, the first thing I think of is what are you getting for value in exchange for giving up the 20%? Because, in fact, 20% could be really cheap. It depends what you're getting and what your needs are. So if you already have a massive reach and you don't need the massive reach a podcasting company is going to bring, maybe that doesn't make as much sense for you, but you need to dig into what does that 20% bring, and how am I benefiting from that? Because one of the ways that I look at it is, for me joining Podcast one, they have massive reach.

They.

They have so many massive shows that I can go on that allow me to expand my reach. They have the ability to promote my show on their other shows. They have the expertise on how to edit programs. You know what the right flow of a show is. They were able to teach me and advise me so much, as well as connect me to these other massive shows and continue to promote me and help me to get guests and evaluate which are the right. Right guess. They brought so much expertise to the table that I did not have that there was tremendous value to me there. So for me to ever say, and I'm just throwing out this random 20% number because that's what she threw to me, that would be so inexpensive at 20% because of the value that I was getting. So sometimes we get caught up on what a cost is instead of what are we getting in return for giving up that rent revenue, or in return on the back end, because it could be that someone's charging you 15% and all they're doing is editing your materials. And in my opinion, that is far too expensive. So it isn't about the number so much. It's about digging in and really assessing what are your needs, what is the outcome you're looking for, what does success look like to you? And what are these costs involved? Because. Because it may end up that you're giving up half of your profits, but you're so happy because you're growing at such a faster rate and your show is so much dynamically better than anyone else's out there that it made all the sense in the world to do that. So really dig into what does success look like? Where is it that you have weaknesses and where is the value that the other partner is bringing? And try not to get so hung up on, is it a 20% deal, a 50% deal deal, a 10% deal? Because that can be incredibly misleading. Now, the other piece of Advice I gave her is that there isn't just one company, right, in any space, there's going to be competitors. So in the podcasting world, if you're working with this one company and you feel that 20% doesn't warrant what you're getting in that you're, you're giving up 20% of your revenues and what you're getting in return, return, it's not equal, it doesn't make sense. For you go and meet with all of their competitors because everyone's going to have a different value proposition that they're going to bring to the table for you. Everyone's going to charge something differently or potentially have a need or want why they want you, that you might have more leverage at different companies. So one of the things I did, I had met with a number of different podcasting companies and for me it was really important. I didn't want to have to take on one more job. I couldn't handle more on my plate on a day to day basis. And the idea of launching my show on my own, figuring out how to edit, finding out what that right strategy was and flow for the show, figuring out how am I going to get my guests, how do I upload the audio, it seemed overwhelming to me at first. So I would meet with these different companies and they would all essentially say the same thing. Heather, we love you. We'd love to have you, you as part of our family. Go ahead and launch your program, go ahead and launch your podcast and when your numbers get, you know, up to 20, 30, 40,000 downloads, come back to us and we'd love to sign you. Well, to me, here's what that meant is my needs were that I needed the support now, not down the road. I wasn't in a position where I felt comfortable launching my show on my own because I didn't have the bandwidth. So they were not supporting solving a problem for me. So they could have wanted 80% of my revenues and it was going to be too much, or they could have wanted 8% and it was going to be too much because they weren't solving my problem. The issue wasn't how much they wanted to take or leave with me from revenue standpoint. The issue was they did not solve my problem. They wanted me to go create success, create a show on my own, which I did not have the bandwidth to do, nor did I want to want to do and wait for me to become successful and bring the show back to them. I did not think that was a good plan for me. I did not think that made any sense, frankly. And instead, I ended up joining a company that wanted to take a chance on me, that totally and wholeheartedly believed in me and didn't have me create a show on my own because I had explained I don't have the bandwidth to take that on. However, I. I know if we can work out a deal here together that in conjunction with you and your team, I can launch the show. And I believe it will be successful and this will make you a lot of money. And I'm really happy that they took that chance on me. We far exceeded the downloads that we had hoped for. We define what success would look like. We follow the metrics. But like anything, sales fix all problems. The more that we can market the show, promote the show, get reviews and ratings. It keeps taking this show to the top. So I try not to focus too much on the metrics and following the dashboard. I'll glance at it once a day because I am a little obsessed with it right now and I'm really excited about it. But what I spend my time on all day long is incentivizing people to leave a rating and review. Incentivizing people to share my content so that the message can reach a broader audience. I spend time pitching myself for different shows and showing different hosts why I make sense and bring value to them and to their audience. So I really work on growing the downloads and staying focused on driving that sale. Please download the show, please share the show with your friends, and if you could please rate and review the show, I would be happy to buy you my $299 confidence creator video course as a thing. Thank you. You just need to DM me the screenshot. I'm on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook. I'm everywhere. Wherever you are, I'm there. And I so appreciate you supporting, creating confidence being here again this week. And I. I just. It means the world to me. So thank you so much and I hope that you love this episode as much as I did.

And I'll be back with you next week.