#66: Dr. Wendy Osefo, Real Housewives of Potomac: The Power Of Why

Come on this journey with me each week when you join me, we are going to chase down our goals, overcome adversity, and set you up for a better tomorrow.

I'm ready for my close up.

Hi and welcome back. I'm so excited you're back here with me today. Thank you. Okay, so. Oh my gosh. As if the hits just keep on coming around here. We've got a hurricane heading for Miami right now. And I'm so sad to share with you that my long time mentor and good friend Bob passed away yesterday. And I'll tell you, when you deal with so much sadness, as I know you are right, we all are. Whether it be from being in quarantine, just dealing with the pandemic, the news, losing a job, getting furloughed, panicking about what's happening to our economy and our world, the political situation, there's so much going on and having people close to you that you lose during this time, it just g. It's crushing. As you know, we lost my son's dog two weeks ago. And then losing Bob yesterday, it's just. Oh, I lost it. So I wanted to share what I learned from him. I think it's really important. And he's the only guy that ever taught me about this. So I want to teach it to you because I want his legacy to go on beyond him being here. So I got into the radio business. Oh my gosh. I was so young. Maybe I was 23. Anyhow, I ended up moving to publicly traded company, became the VP of sales and EBP CRO. Okay. During that time I was back and forth to New York a lot, working with one of our vendors, our partners out there, which was our national rep firm. And at the time he happened to be the president of one of the divisions. So he was very, very high up, much more senior than. And he represented essentially the industry. I represented one company. But for whatever reason, he was always kind to me and he was really into data and research and I didn't know much about it, so I was super interested. So I would always ask him questions. And of course we know people love when we're interested in them and their work. So he would take me into his office and share presentations with me and data and teach me. And it was so nice, so generous with his time and. And so we built a friendship and a camaraderie. Years ago, more than a decade ago, probably 15 years ago, and over the years we would stay in touch, talk on the phone, text, email, whatever. And then when I was In New York, I'd always stop by and see him. And then the CEO of that company died, and the new CEO wanted him out. He didn't want to work for him. It was a complete disaster. And Bob left. Bob found himself in transition, which I know a lot about. We all know a lot about transition these days. So he called me and said, hey, what do you think about me being your consultant? Which I was super excited for. Number one, I'll take any help I can get. Number two, I already love this guy. He was so helpful to me and so different from me. So I thought it would be a great compliment. So I brought him on as our consultant. Eventually, I ended up hiring him as my right hand. When I became CRO, I promoted him to VP of Sales. So a little weird, right? He's 20 something years older than me, tons of experience, and some people thought that was odd. But I trusted him. I really liked him and I saw value in him that could add value to the team. So we worked together and things were good. But whenever we would spend time alone together, I would want to get into the specifics of revenue generation. What's going on with, you know, losing clients, what's happening with different categories of business, all the normal conversations you would have around revenue. And he would always change the conversation to two things, legacy and footprints in the sand. And I remember when he first did this with me, and I would think, so weird what he talks about, right? I thought it was so strange, and I didn't really understand. I would appease him and listen to whatever he had to say. But eventually I started to get. I understood his point that there's more to life than just work. And it's really about what will we leave behind when we're gone. And when I had thought about that before, I would think about my son, Right? So, you know, that's the legacy you leave as your children. But he was. There was more than that. He wasn't saying just your kids, which. He was a great father and was a huge fan of his kids and his family and his wife. But his point was, you can leave so much more, and we've learned so much and have so much to offer and that we've got to do our part to leave our footprints in the sand to help others and to help the generations that are coming behind us. I hadn't really thought much about that prior to those conversations. So he really got me, you know, to start thinking about it. And then, of course, fast forward, I end up getting fired. And during that Time everyone was, you know, hiding from me, not wanting to speak to me in my old industry because I was odd man out. And the company that fired me didn't want people talking to me. But Bob would keep messaging me and he would DM me and message me and email me, and I didn't want to talk to him because I didn't. I was so confused at first when I got fired, who do you trust? Who was in the know? Did they let me hire him because they wanted him to replace me? You know, I had all these fear questions at first, and I was so paranoid. I was just in a bad spot. I wasn't thinking clearly. Fast forward from there. I end up out in LA with my podcast and I wanted to get some press and coverage to expand my reach. And I have a huge network of people I know in the radio business. So I called the head of iHeartRadio for the West Coast. His name's Kevin. And we didn't really know each other well, but we knew plenty of people in common. He took the meeting, I went in to see him, and I wanted him to, you know, put me on Ryan Seacrest. I wanted to go on all of his shows. Ellen K. I wanted coverage on everything because I want to blow my show up. Course, go big or go home. And he was very gracious. However, he was not saying yes. And I said, listen, what is this gonna take? You know, Are you kidding me?

Like, don't you know me?

Don't you know who I am? We've been in the same industry for forever. And he said, well, I mean, I don't really know you, Heather. I know of you, but I don't know you. I mean, who could I talk to that we know in common that would vouch for you? And I had heard he was a big fan, fan of Bob's, but I didn't know because, remember, I hadn't been answering Bob's calls for about a year now. I kind of shut him out. I did. I didn't respond. I, you know, I shut those people at that company out. And so anyhow, Kevin said, what if I call Bob? He said, I trust him and I trust his opinion, and if he thinks I should help you, then I'll do just that. So he calls Bob. And wouldn't you know, Bob said the nicest things in the world about me. Don't want to get into it because I'll start crying. So he said, heather, Bob vouches for you. He loves you and would do anything for you. And he told Me to do whatever you wanted. So Kevin started helping me and we started working together and he was amazing, so great. And got me on so many shows and was such an advocate for me, had me come in and speak to his employees. And just. He was so great at promoting my book and just my podcast. He was just such a. He became a great friend through Bob. So then he said, well, you know, I gotta reunite you back to Bob because Bob never wanted to hurt you. Bob was never part of this, and you need to trust me on that. And I said, I do. So he reconnected us and there we were back again, talking, and, you know, Bob forgave me for disappearing on him, and things were just back to normal. So then for the next couple of years, we stayed friends and would talk once in a while, text and email again. And, you know, he was super supportive of me. He was the same person that he always was to me. And he was sick. He had cancer. But when I tell you this guy was 6, 7, good looking, in great shape, smart, eloquent, so together, so positive, I just never thought. You just never think, you know, who is going to disappear. And about a month ago, Kevin had reached out to me to let me know he didn't think he was doing very well. And so I reached out to Bob and he sent me this note and said, hey, I've been working on a book, kiddo. Would you look at it and let me know what you think? I think it's going to help a lot of people. I think it can help me leave the footprint in the sand. And he sent me this outline for a book, and it was awesome. Of course it was awesome. He's such a hard worker and such a standup human being that of course it was awesome. It was so good. And he never got to bring that book to light. So he had a story in him to tell. He has teachings in him to tell, and he never brought it to light. So when I heard from Kevin last night that he had passed away, I was sobbing on my couch for two hours thinking about this. And the first thing I did was I text my son because he was with my. His father, my ex husband. I text him, where is the stuff that Bob sent you? I need to know right now. And my son kept saying, why? Why, why? And he told me where it was. And then he called me and he said, what's going on? And I told him Bob went to live in heaven. And he said, oh, mom, are you okay? I know how bad this hurts. I know how Much. You loved him. And my son loved Bob, too. He'd been such. He got us tickets to the NBA All Star Game. He got my son all these autographed NBA things. A letter from the head coach of the Clippers.

Like, all.

He just done so many cute, sweet, thoughtful, amazing things for my son because they had that passion for basketball in common. And he talked to my son a number of times on the phone and met him, and they had hit it off. So I went and found the letter that Bob had sent to him and all the stuff he had sent him and just went through everything. I read the outline for his book again last night, and I was sitting there so sad, and it hit me, you know, I was so focused on Cheese. He has this book that he needs to bring to light, and it never made it. And I'm one of the only people that ever saw it. And I want this book to be made, and this isn't fair. And then I realized something. He had always talked to me about legacy and the legacy you leave, and that's when I got it. Legacy isn't something you leave behind that's tangible like a book. Legacy is something you leave behind within others. And that's when I understood. His legacy lives within me and always will. And I will do my part to keep his legacy alive. I will write about him in my book, which will come to life next year in 2021. Thank you, HarperCollins leadership. I will keep his legacy alive. And that was a really amazing realization that I had for the first time last night. I was so focused on. It had to be like a product or a book or, you know, a movie or a documentary or something. It doesn't. It just has to be the passion and teachings that you instill and kindness and love and support that you instill in others so that they can carry that on on your behalf when you're gone. They can spread that message when you're gone, which I'm committed to doing. I am so committed to that. So what is your legacy? And are you leaving footprints in the sand? I can tell you for sure that I am. And I can also tell you that this pushes me even more. To do more, to be more of a mentor, to be more of an inspiration, to work harder, because this man was the hardest working person in the world. And that's all. That's what I had to say. But please answer that question for me. What is your legacy? And if you don't have one yet, if you haven't thought about it yet, Bob's challenging you to. Bob wants you to leave the footprints and so do I. We'll be right back. Meet a different guest each week.

Hi and welcome back. I'm so excited for you to meet my guest today, Dr. Wendy, who's an award winning researcher. Dr. Wendy is a Nigerian American television personality and progressive political commentator. She's a contributor to the Hill, founder and CEO of the 1954 Equity Project, and professor of education at the Johns Hopkins University. Oh my gosh. You're also, you've got a Show on Radio 1. You've got a BA in Political Science from Temple. I mean, You've got a PhD in public affairs. Your bio is probably one of the most impressive of anyone that I've had on the show. And I'm blown away. So thank you for making time and being here today with us.

Oh, thank you so much for having me.

So I wanted to start with I met with Bravo a couple of years ago about doing a show with them and I ended up walking away and we never made a deal. One of the reasons why, and I'm so curious about this for you, was I was so concerned with building credibility in life. You know, being a mother, reaching a level of quote, unquote status or, you know, societal approval and then losing it as a result of immersing yourself in something that some people might think would chip away at everything that you've built. Did you have thoughts like that when you considered this?

I did think of the negative connotations that naturally come with reality shows and what that can imply. But the truth of the matter is you have to be authentic to yourself. Those shows cannot define you. You actually have the ability to define those shows. And I think it's really interesting because a lot of people have said to me, I think that just having you on the show, in a sense, is Elegan elevating the franchise. Right. Who I am and what I am is something that can never be taken away from me. Whether you see a camera on me as I'm hanging out with my girlfriends and, you know, we're having a few drinks and you hear me say something witty or smart, that doesn't negate the fact that I'm constantly in these streets marching for black lives. It doesn't change the fact that I'm speaking truth to power when it comes to politics. It doesn't change the fact that I'm the first black woman to receive my PhD in my department. Those things can never be taken away from me. It's sort of the argument as women that we face. That is often said, you know, you're beautiful, but you should dress differently so people can take you seriously. If the way you dress can take away from your brains, then that doesn't make any sense. So that's what I look at it as. I could be completely wrong, but who I am and what I've done can never be stripped away because of social choices I make with my girlfriends. No. And I don't do anything crazy. I'm really not. You know, there's some crazy things, but I don't do anything crazy. So you just get to see my fun side.

Well, I think that's a great analogy.

And an excellent point that no one can strip you of your accomplishments, your.

Experiences, and who you are. And as long as you know who that is, you're fine with whatever else happens outside of you. And to me, that really sounds like confidence. Would you describe yourself as being confident?

I think I'm confident. I think I also struggle with some of the insecurities that a lot of us face. Right. Even, you know, you listed also my degrees at every stage of me receiving one of my degrees. I suffer from imposter syndrome, thinking everyone around me is so much smarter than me. I'm not supposed to be here. So I have a sense of confidence that I carry with me. But there are times and there are days where I just walk around and say, ugh, you know, am I biting off more than I can chew? So I rely heavily on my family to give me strength and to say, you got this. But most of the days, I do walk around with my head held high, saying, you know what? You're a bad bitch. You deserve to be here.

Good for you. You bring up the fraud mindset, which I think specific to women is much more common than with men. And I personally had that at one point in my career, too. How did you push yourself into those moments when you started wondering, oh, do I really belong here? Am I fooling myself? How were you able to jump over that chasm that a lot of people can't make that leap through?

You know, my background is Nigerian. I come from a Nigerian household. And the reason I preface this statement with that is because growing up in a Nigerian household, you're always being raised with different, like, parables, as I like to call it. Right? And so one of the parables that my dad always used to say is, you know, in life, we have two stages. There's a stage where you will become a mentor, and there's a stage where you'll become A mentee. And you have to know where you are in life and what stage you currently are at. And the reason I say that is because a lot of times in my life, I would question myself and question, you know, should I be here? I would reassure myself and say, yes, you're supposed to be here. You're just not at the stage where you are the mentor yet. You're still learning. This is your learning phase. And so I think that instead of us to say, we're not supposed to be here, let's walk away. We have to look at it differently and say, we're not necessarily experts yet, but we are still supposed to be here. This stage in our life is a learning stage. And in this learning stage, I will gather all the information I can get, and hopefully one day I will be an expert, and then my role will change from a mentee to a mentor. So I've been able to reframe my thinking and just look at life differently and say whenever I'm insecure about my positioning, it's not that I'm not supposed to be here, but rather, I still have a lot to learn in this space and to take up space and.

Learn that thing, I am so taking that from you.

And I, of course, will be footnoting you on it. But that's the most articulate, concise way to really explain how to make that jump and connect really well with that message. It makes so much sense to me. And it's so interesting, that idea of mentor or mentee and how it can change in different places in your life. This just happened recently. I have to share with you. I got a message on LinkedIn from a much older, very successful CEO male, and he sent me a note saying, I'd like to mentor you. I was moving fast. I have a mentoring program. I flipped him a link to my mentoring program. I said, great, sign up here. And I thought he was reaching out to me, wanting me to mentor him. Just assume so. And he wasn't. And so anyways, this is interesting. When he thought that, he was very confused, but he said, you know what? Maybe I could learn something in some space I don't know about. He signed up for my program, and he basically is living what you just articulated. He said, I thought, well, I don't know why this woman would be able to teach me anything, but why don't I try to see if I can be the mentee? And it's been a really. It's been a great program with him. He's brought a lot of learnings, but.

He'S learning a lot too. Yeah.

And it's, it's really to. To your point. So thank you for bringing that up.

Amazing.

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Yeah, I was a humble person and.

I was a little embarrassed that I.

Did that after I heard the whole story, but what are you going to do?

That's super cool.

So one of the things that I wonder about, not only with the political side of, you know, being a political strategist, commentator, and now adding Real Housewives to me, there's a lot of opportunity for being polarizing or controversial just based upon being in those fields. Currently, you know, obviously with the political year, obviously with Black Lives Matter, there's so much controversy in general happening how. And I know a lot of people are afraid to even have the conversation, afraid to say the wrong thing. You're walking into those moments every single day. How do you approach that and manage that?

You know, I think it's always interesting, you know, because even outside of those hats, I'm also a professor, right? And I have students who come from various political backgrounds and they have different political ideas, ideologies. And I've done a very good job of, you know, situating myself in the middle and saying I have my own political views. But I think what's most important here is for all of us to be civically engaged. And that's what's the most important to me. Whether you are on the left side of the aisle or the right side of the aisle. That is your complete, you know, right as a citizen. But the worst thing to do is not to have engagement. And that's where I am always situated in the middle. And I say to people, these are my personal views. These are my personal political views. And it's rooted in my background, my upbringing and things like that, and just things I've read. But it doesn't mean that we should alienate each other. My closest friend in the political sphere is actually someone who sits on the different side of the aisle from me. And we learn so much from each other. And I say that to say I think that people make politics a nasty word, but it's really not like I learned so much from other people. And I just wish that we would remove all of the, you know, just the cattiness that comes with it. It's okay if you sit on the other side of the aisle. Let's all make, you know, this country what it should be, together. And, you know, that's. That's my Kumbaya story, I guess. I don't know.

It's a good one to hear because it definitely isn't the norm that I see. And I was around a few friends the other day for a socially distanced birthday party, and one woman brought up Black Lives Matter and specifically the riots. And immediately I could feel my body shrink back. I didn't even want to engage in the discussion for fear of. For fear that I would say the wrong thing. Fear that she'd get absolutely. Fear that I didn't do enough and I'd be called out. And there's this sense that you back to politics as well, that if you engage in the conversation and this goes sideways, everyone's going to be pissed off and it's gonna end in an argument. And I've seen it unfold so many times that way that it's almost a learned behavior now that, oh, don't get into that conversation versus someone. If, you know, going in, someone like you is open to. That's your opinion, and that's your right. And, you know, I'm happy for you that you have that. Here's mine. And maybe we can see some middle ground. So how do we get people to stop arguing? Or how do you detract from the argument when people start it?

Well, my first question to people, if I find that they sit on the same side as me or they sit on a different aisle as me, my first question is, why? Why do you believe that because sometimes people don't know why they believe or they vote for a certain political party. They just say, oh, I'm this, you know, I'm a Republican, I'm a Democrat, and I challenge people all the time. And I say, why? And it's just a simple question, but at least to a conversation, it'll say, you know, I was raised in a blue collar town, and, you know, my blue collar town, this happened or this president gave us. Like, there's always a story. And if there's not a story, it makes people start to think, okay, why. Why am I, you know, why do I believe this, this political view? So I always start with why. I am an educator at heart. That's what I am. I'm a professor. So I come to people at the very root of every issue and we build upon. I think the thing is, when people say black lives matter, you may already think, all right, what do I associate black lives matter with? And so because you said that, I know the type of person you are. Or someone says, I'm a Trump supporter, someone may say, okay, because you're a Trump supporter. I already know who you are and what you think. No, just simply take things to the basics and say, okay, you're a Trump supporter. Cool. Why? Tell me why. And that throws a lot of people off guard because they think you're gonna attack them if you say black lives matter. You know, some people may be like, why do you don't think all lives matter? No, just say, oh, black lives. Oh, okay. Why? Educate me. You know, and when you start having conversations like that and taking out the antagonistic nature of. It's simple. It's like, okay, tell me why. Oh, okay, that's why. Well, let me tell you why. I believe what I believe. And then they're like, no one has ever told me that. No one has ever talked to me. Like, this is usually, you know, banter. You're stupid, you're this, you're that. And we don't need all of that. Like, tell me why and I'll tell you why. We can move forward and then have a glass of wine.

I like that approach. I'm going to use that. I'm definitely using that one, too. You just tell me why first while I sit over here and don't argue with you. Well, you know, around the topic of black lives matter, myself specifically, and I know for other people as well, didn't know what it meant. So when it first. And I know it's been out for years, however, I was ignorant to it, I wasn't educated on. I didn't know. And so when these conversations became massive in the past few months, at first I was thinking, well, that doesn't sound very nice because why wouldn't everybody matter? And I definitely thought that. And as I learned more, I've learned a lot. And as for all the good information you can get out there, sometimes there's really bad conspiracy theories, which I'm sure you hear many, especially this year, with everything that's going on. And so it's trying to discern what is actually real, legitimate factual information or fake news and just conspiracy theory. That's been challenging, I think, for a lot of people.

Absolutely, I agree with that. And I think that, you know, if nothing else, I've had a few friends who have said that this year, they've just educated themselves and they've learned more about people, about organizations. And I just think that that's really important. So, you know, when people are saying black lives matter, it's not because, you know, white lives don't matter or, you know, the lives of other people don't matter. Just simply saying we feel as though right now black lives are under attack. I cannot remember in my mind when I have seen a police officer kill a white man on tape. I cannot. I cannot. Like, I can't. But if you ask me, have you seen a police officer kill a black guy on tape? I could say yes. I could list. I could literally say Philando Castile. I could say George Floyd. I could say Rashad Brooks. I can name these people's names. And so I just think it's important for us to have these conversations. Not because white lives don't matter. We're just saying that black lives are currently under attack. And that's really what it is. And you know, I have these conversations with my friends. You know, I was saying this the other day, my son was invited over to one of his classmates, you know, houses, everybody's in quarantine, let's get together. And the mom said, you know, you guys should come over. Just got him a new water gun and all this other stuff. And I had to tell my child that he couldn't go and he didn't know why. And I said, because I don't want you playing with a gun. My sons, there are seven and five. I have never bought them a toy gun. That may seem foreign to people, but that's because you have incidents like Tamir Rice. There was a 12 year old black boy who police pulled up that he was playing with the toy Gun. They thought it was a real gun. Before they even looked at him. They killed him. He was 12. He wasn't doing anything. He was just playing. And that was it. My sons will never have the privilege to play with a toy gun like that. Whole story of, you know, the Christmas story with the boy. His mom said, you'll shoot your eye out. Yeah. That's not relatable to my family because no one in my family that I can know of. Great. Great. Has ever owned a gun. And the only person who did was my grandfather because he was a police officer. Officer. We don't own guns because people will think that you're gonna kill them. So that is just something that says that's how our lives are different. My son wants a super Soaker. No, you can't get one. So just simple things like that. Like just the bare things that make our lives different. But we live in the same country, and I just, you know, sharing stories like that with my friends and them sharing different stories with me have just really made this time period one of learning not just for white people, but also for black people. Like, we're all lear. As long as we continue to learn with open arms, I think that this country is on the right track.

Absolutely.

I couldn't agree with you more.

I didn't know that you had a family member that had been in the police force.

And that's really interesting to me because.

Of all the work that I know.

That you're doing for equality and for the situation that we have with police and taking a very hard look at policy and how can we fix these issues. What is your thoughts on defunding the police? Is that something that seems to becoming very popular recently?

Yeah.

I think it's interesting when people say defund the police and what it means. It's like this whole notion of, I don't know if you ever heard of no Child Left Behind. I believe that was like, one of the accident. And everyone was like, yeah, that's a great thing. No Child Left Behind. Nobody really read the policy, because if you read it, it's really bad. But because of the name. Right. So defund the police doesn't necessarily mean like, we want to defund the police. I'll actually go further. That was my grandfather that I mentioned. My brother is actually a police officer currently. So I have police force. So every time I speak out, people always want to attack me. Like, you hate police. No, my brother puts his life on the line every day. But defunding the police for me, Wendy's Definition, it simply means that we give so much money to police, we need to start giving that money and allocating it to different entities. It doesn't mean police won't have. It's just that police have so much like the point that sometimes when you see things going on, you see them riding down the streets in tanks. Why are we militarized now, police, when we have schools that don't even have books, that are older than the 1970s in Baltimore? They don't even have air conditioning for students when they're in school during the summer months. But police officers are equipped with. With all types of stuff as if they're going to war, and they're not. So for me, defunding the police is not something necessarily that I'm advocating for, but I am saying that when we look at public service entities, they should all be equally yoked as far as finances. That's it. I want kids to go to schools with books that they can read and they're not, you know, kids are getting kicked out of school because they owe a lunch balance of $2 $2, $4. But you're giving the police like $10 million. Why don't you take $1,000 and pay off all lunch debt? So children are not getting kicked out of school. It's just all about equity. And I think that those conversations need to be. Need to be had about how we're spending our taxpayer money.

Do you see those conversations happening now at a higher frequency? Because this is an election year and because of the outrage.

Yeah, I think everyone is putting everything on the table now because it is an election year. And the election year is usually a tense time. I'm thinking back to 2016. I remember when that election was going on. It's usually a tense time because everyone who feels as though they have been left out of the conversation starts knocking on the door and saying, excuse me, you forgot about me. As they rightfully should. If you are going to vote for someone, they should work for you. In a sense, our elected officials should work for us. We're voting for you because we believe you're going to make our lives better, whether it's by enacting policy or whether it's by restricting policy. So I think that election year is just a time that everything bubbles up. I think that right now is just a really tense time in our country because it's an election year and we are also in a pandemic, and that is just mixing and everyone is just tired and exhausted. People are dying, you know, so much going on this year. So this year is gonna go down in the history books. Definitely.

That is an understatement.

Oh my gosh.

For better or worse, I'll tell you, it's so.

This sounds so minuscule compared to what's happening in the world, but it just. My son, little dog, died two weeks ago and it was his first experience with death. Right. And it's so interesting to me in that we have all this death happening all around us as we all. But if your individual home has an experience, it's nothing like when that death comes to you, you know, and that experience. And it also reminded me how jaded we can get. I'm saying me as an adult versus him as a 13 year old child. You know, in my mind I thought, oh, that poor dog and my poor son. But I know that we will move.

On and life will go on.

And my son doesn't know. And watching him go through that grief and loss really made me feel so much more sensitive around what everyone is experiencing right now.

Yeah.

Oh, that's so.

Aww.

No, I feel that because my children, we have a dog. It's their first animal. She hasn't passed, she's still here. But our children, they have adopted birds and we have like a birdhouse and all that other stuff. And they were playing basketball, the ball rolled into the field, the ball laid beside the body of one of the birds. And my son was terrible. My 5 year old was like blue jasmine and started screaming her name. I was like, oh, no, they didn't take it that hard. But that was their first time. I think I even heard him say, she's dead. And I've never heard, you know, it's like, you know, it's hard, it's hard. Oh, my heart goes out to your son. Give my heart to me.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

He's starting to do better, so thank you very much. You bring up your kids and, you know, you're a mom and you're an educator and you're dealing with pandemic. How do you balance all of those things with being a political strategist, commentator with now taking on Real Housewives? What does balance look like to you? Wine.

Wine, Wine, wine, wine. Lots of wine. No. Okay, okay.

No, no.

What does balance look like to me? Balance looks like. And I'll say this, and it may sound crazy, balance looks familiar and I'm okay with it. Meaning I know I cannot balance it all. And I know I cannot be 100% in all things at all times. And I have Learned this year and a little bit of last year to be okay with that. If my son has, you know, a big project for school and that's what we're focused on, that's what my priority is this week. So if I have to, you know, cancel some of my hits for TV because my son needs me, then so be it. If I have a week that is a big debate that's coming up and I have to study for it and make sure I have all of my talking points, then, you know, that week Grubhub is going to be my best friend and I may not be mommy of the year cooking dinner. So balance means me realizing that some things I'm going to have to put to the side for just a short period of time until I handle upcoming deadline. And I'm okay with that. Before, I used to do it all, and I have a daughter that just turned one, and I literally, like, beat myself over the head just to make sure, because I know she's my last one and I just wanted to make sure I breastfed her. And I had to go to one. And so many times I wanted to stop because I would have to pump before a segment. I will pump in between takes. As you guys see on Real Housewives, there's, like, times where I'm like, pumping. We traveled to Portugal and I brought back, like, over a hundred ounces of milk. Like a psycho from a foreign country. I don't get it, but I just feel like I always run myself into the ground trying to make everyone else happy. That I realized in order for me Wende to be okay, I have to be okay letting go of some responsibilities and not being supermom sometimes.

Oh, my gosh. I remember I was the same way with breastfeeding and feeling like it was my obligation and that pressure and the craziness. Oh, I feel you on that one. So I'm so glad your year is up over.

I am so like, no. If I hear another breast pump machine again, I will kick it down the freaking road. I hate it. I can't do it anymore.

It's not a good sound if everyone listening has not heard it. I'm not advocating for it. It is brutal. And if you were the person that was ever sitting next to me on an airplane.

Absolutely. Oh, my God. My life. That wasn't good.

All right, so tell me how. I know a lot of people struggle with committing to something. This is the example you just gave. Your son has a big project coming up. He needs your help. You had laid out a number of different shows that you were committed to doing. And now you've got to go back to them and tell them, I can't do this. How do you, how do you approach that conversation?

Oh, that's a great one. How do I approach that conversation? Well, all honesty, I always try to have a middle person. I'm a scapegoat type of person. Like, listen, I can't do it. And so I'll have, you know, my publicist or someone like, reach out, like, oh, something came up. It's not necessarily good, but I'm a stickler for calendars, so I try to avoid those conversations. Like when the school gives out the calendar for the year, everything is in my calendar. So I give myself 24 hours before, 24 hours after. Because if this is the date for the spring concert, that means we're gonna have to practice. We're gonna have a wardrobe, you know, make sure the wardrobe works. So if the spring concert is on a Wednesday, then I check out Monday. So Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday is all, you know for me. So it's, it's always about managing. And my husband and I, we sync our calendars. He's super busy as well. He's an attorney, so he has a million things going on. So we always try to. One of us is always present. We try for both of us to be present, but we always have one of us present. And it's worked so far, so fingers crossed that it continues to work.

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Well I am impressed because you guys have definitely have a full plate. What kind of advice do you have for other working parents knowing that there's a very high probability that we're going to be teaching our kids at home yet again starting this fall. And as an educator, is there any advice that you can give us if.

You can and when I say if you can because unfortunately there are finances tied to everything, right? But if you can start looking for help now, everyone is like literally scrambling because things are gonna happen. And spoiler alert if your school is going to open, still look for help because the moment God forbid one child, one teacher comes in contact with the virus, that school is probably gonna shut down. So that's just a spoiler alert for everyone. Like don't say oh perfect, my child's school is gonna open to go. No, you're good to go for now until, God forbid, something happens and then they start all over. And we see that happening even now with the states. Like you saw states opening up. Beaches were open, everyone was fine. But then the cases start to rise and they had to shut everything back down. They're definitely going to do that again with schools. And if you can, what I think is really great is if your child has friends in school and you are talking to those parents, see if you guys can come together to have one person like a tutor, hire a tutor and split the cost amongst five families. It'll be so much cheaper. So it'll be like a mini class, except they're doing it with their friends and it's still virtual. So those are some tips I would say is one, be prepared for the worst possible outcome, even if the outcome looks good. Now, two, try to find some help ahead of time. And three, do cost savings if you can, by sharing that cost amongst other families, if possible.

Okay, I'll be on that as soon.

As we end this, buddy.

I don't have that.

I just laid out this week. I'm definitely getting on that. Okay, so two Real Housewives. This is season five, and it's your first season. What are your thoughts? Walking away, knowing that you're going live now.

Oh, my goodness, I am a nervous wreck. It's weird because it's something that you do. Like we filmed last year. So something that you do, no one knows about it, so you leave it. The next day, your life is almost like back to normal, right? Like, you're done shooting the season and now it's like everyone is about to watch this show. Everyone is going to be invited into your home. Everyone is going to have opinions. You may say something to do something. You think you're 100% right, and then the audience is looking at you like, oh, my gosh, he's a great. A psycho. So it's like you are opening up yourself to the court of public opinion. And that is something that is not for the weak or the faint of heart. I'm glad that I've done some TV before, so I know what that's like because I've come off of TV after doing commentary, but I killed that. My points were, like, solid. And I get these emails like, where did you get your doctorate? You're so stupid. I'm like, damn, I thought I killed that. So I have had those comments all the time. So I say that to say I'm a very Humble person. So I am nervous to open my life, my personal life, to the court of public opinion. But it was a fun ride, so I enjoyed myself. It was good.

Some of the women on the show.

You'Ve known before and have been friends before, did any of them give you advice or advise you when you were considering coming on or tell you what to expect?

No, no, no, no, no and no. So the reason I say that is my reaction and the way I reacted is very organic. Maybe like. And why say no? I know for sure before we started feeding filming. Okay, well, maybe one person. One person. One person, in all fairness. But my whole point of saying that is it wasn't enough. It's like, it's basically like someone telling you if you go into the water and you, your head goes under the water, just hold your breath and you're like, okay, that makes sense. And then they push into the damn Atlantic Ocean. It's not the pool is the Atlantic Ocean. So it's like, okay, I need different tactics here. So they gave me great advice, but it wasn't anything compared to what I was about to go through. It was pretty intense. It was very intense. Yeah.

Well, I've only seen the trailer, right? The promo trailer, which I shared with you, I thought was so good and it looks so drama filled that I can't wait for the show. But even just getting to know you a little bit, having read about you and immersed myself in your background, you come across very different in the trailer than you do in real life.

Really? So how do I come across on the trailer?

Well, the moment on the trailer that caught me was when you were going back and forth with another woman and she called you Wendy and you said, that is Dr. Wendy. And you called this woman out in front of everybody without missing a beat. It just doesn't seem like the same person.

It's not. It's really not. It's so fun. It's so funny because my zodiac sign is a Gemini and I feel like true, true to form. I have two personalities. I have like, you know, Wendy, that's just super goofy, silly. Like, I swear my 7 year old and my 5 year old, like, we're like on the same, like, mental capacity, like when I'm home because I'm just so silly with them and so goofy. And then I have my other side, which is like, I'm a boss, like, don't play with me. You know, like. And I think she brought that out of me. And it was so weird because after it happened, well, you guys are gonna see after it happened, I was just like, oh, like, you. Like, literally in that episode, you guys are gonna see me go through, like, Wendy being this person, and Wendy going like, oh, that was nice. It's like the weirdest. It's like, the weirdest thing. It takes some time, but eventually you will see that. That side of me. It's so weird. I'm so weird. Yeah.

Do you get a chance to watch the actual episodes and see how they edited everything before we get to see it?

Yes and no. They edit it. The season's done. Everything is done. But before you guys see episode one, we get episode one, like, two or three days before you guys see it. So I don't know what episode two is. I don't know what episode three is. I have no idea. So I have 48 hours to prepare myself for people calling me a psycho. That's it. I have 48 hours.

Okay, so now that you've seen episode one, and you know that someone somewhere will come out and be a hater and say something. It's just the nature of the beast. How do you respond to that or.

How do you prepare yourself for that?

You don't. You don't. You have to know that, you know, people hate it or love it. People are gonna say something. And that's why when I was thinking about going into the show, I said, in my life, whether it's being a professor, being a commentator, I lead with authenticity. I'm always true to who I am. Like, I never go in there. Like, I know people, even in the political realm, they don't believe what they're saying. They're saying it because they know it'll get attention or because, you know, they're being a voice or mouthpiece for someone. Everything I say I believe. And even in the classroom, everything I say I believe. So I say that to say, with shooting the show, I came into it with the same mindset. So if you don't like what you see on the tv, I'm okay with that, you know, like, because it'll be different if I was faking or I was pretending to be somebody. Now say to myself, oh, man, I wish I was just my authentic self. Maybe they were like that. No, you get what you get. And so I rather be hated for who I am than love for who I'm not. So this is who I am. If you don't like it, move along.

I love that.

Oh, my gosh, I can't wait to see the show. So excited to see it. And I'm super excited to be on it.

Oh, thank you. I'm super excited for now.

We'll check back in a few weeks to see if you still feel the same way.

Yeah, absolutely. Perfect. Perfect.

And how does Everybody find you? Dr. Wendy, you can find me on.

All social media platforms. WendyOcepho.

Well, thank you so much for being here and we're looking forward to seeing you on Bravo.

Yay. Thank you for having me.

Hang tight.

We'll be right back.

I asked you to try to find your passion. I hope you loved meeting Dr. Wendy as much as I loved interviewing her. I have to tell you that I didn't know what to expect with her. I didn't know her previously, and I. I'm so happy I had her on the show. She's not what I expected and she really dropped some major knowledge on me and I hope on you too. So hopefully you enjoy meeting her and learning from her. I thought she was great. Okay, so sometimes I get DMS on Instagram from people. Just super nice notes, feedback, you know, not always. Sometimes I get some crazy lunatic haters. But yesterday I got super nice note from someone telling me to keep up the good work and that they're so proud of me. And then the person said, you know, you can manifest and create anything that you want. And I wrote back, I thought that was so interesting. Like, really? Do you have some inside track that I don't know? And P.S. please explain. So I wrote back, any tips on how to do it? Manifesting is something I'm learning about, but I'm not a master. And this was interesting. He said, many tips, but first start by creating a more morning ritual instead of waking up and going straight to your phone. Also imagine that you already have what you want and manifest it. And this was interesting to me because I had worked super hard on this a while ago and like with anything, I'm going 9 million different directions. And back when I was really leaning into my speaking business, I had this whole thing written out and I used to read, read it every single day. And it was all about how I'm the top speaker in the US And I am making millions of dollars. All these really crystallized specific goals. And I would read it every day as if it was done real and happening. And I forgotten about it since the pandemic hit because number one, that isn't possible right now, right? So just reminded me that this person sent me that note. Hey, I need to get back to that. I need to get back to putting out to the world what it is. I want and what it is I'm going for and making happen, because God knows I am going for so much and making so much happen. But why don't I get back to that simple practice that takes a couple of minutes a day that seemed to have been working great for me before Pandemic hit, You know, why not implement that now? So I challenge you to think about what are some of the good things, good practices that you had in place before Pandemic, that maybe you've forgotten about that and maybe manifesting is one of them. And if it is, let's go, let's do it together. Let's put it back in motion. I am so doing it. I'm back in. We need to get back to the grind in the most positive and supported way. And I really believe this. There's nothing bad that can come from it. There's only good that can come from it. So giddy up, let's go. And we all need some good. Okay, today. Oh, my gosh. Wouldn't you know? This is so crazy. My life is freaking crazy. Even in Pandemic, it's crazy. So I used to work with a young man years ago. I was in radio. I was a VP of sales at the time. And I sort of took this young man under my wing. He was very rookie, very young, and I just could see he didn't know what he was doing and he wasn't getting the support he needed. I actually forgot about that. He told me today. And I took him under my wing and I started working with him and I started going on sales calls with and him and teaching him because I wanted to help him. Then I saw he didn't know what he was doing and he worked for. He was in my company, right? He wasn't my direct report, but he was in the organization I was running. Okay. So he ends up leaving a couple years later. I don't remember why. This is a long time ago. And fast forward to, I don't know, a month ago, he reaches out to me on LinkedIn and now he's a VP of Sales for a company. And he wanted to bring me on to be a keynote, keynote speaker for his sales team, which is in Singapore, Brazil, London and Miami. And it's a publishing company. And I, I was so excited. I said, oh my gosh, this is fantastic. And, yeah, let's work out logistics and, you know, whatnot, but if, if possible, if we can make it work, I'd like to do it. So we ended up working everything out. It was great. And today was the day I had to give the speech. Remember? My mentor died last night. So I. I cried like crazy yesterday. I did not sleep that great last night, obviously, was really upset. And then this morning, I was crying again too. So I just decided I'm not even gonna do my hair or makeup. I don't even care. And I know that sounds so lame, but typically, I really try when I'm doing an event, right?

Even from Zoom, I try.

I decided I'm just gonna tell them the truth, and I did. And I started crying a little bit at the beginning of the meeting, but then I really got into my talk, and I became my powerful speaking version of me, and it went killer. So good. And we did a Q and A after, and it was great. And they were all going nuts. And so I was super pleased with how everything went today, considering the mindset and mind frame I was in with having just lost my mentor. So I was really proud of myself. And I also said to myself, what would Bob say if he was here right now? I said that to myself this morning. And I know what he would say. Kid, I. Come on, let's go. You can bring value to them. You can support and help them. You can teach them. This can be part of the footprints in the sand. You're leaving. You need to show up for me. And so that's what I told myself. That's what I did. I kept it real and told the truth. And then I went all in and delivered. And I'm super proud of myself doing that. So, yes, some days are really freaking hard. Some are harder than others. But when we put our best foot forward and remember the why, why are we doing this? You know, why are we showing up? Why are we sharing our message, our teachings? Why are we in this situation? You know, I remembered him, and that pushed me to show up this morning. And I might not have looked my best, but I killed it. So I was super proud of that. Okay, so one of the questions, I did a Q and A at the end, and one of the questions that came up is an interesting question because it keeps coming to me, so I have to address it again. One of the of the people asked, how do you say no to things? And it's such an interesting question because no is a complete sentence. No does not need to be explained. No does not need to be described or justified.

No.

And here's the thing. The more that we're at home, the more that our schedules are crazy, the more that we're in back to back Zooms the more we're going to have to start saying no. And I've totally made that pivot, and I'm saying no to so much now. Where at the beginning, I, I wasn't. I was just taking anything and everything. But as we begin to determine where is the best use of our time, where is our best roi, our return on our investment, or return on our time rot. And that's how we can make better decisions. We need to evaluate if sitting on the phone with your friends in the middle of the day isn't paying dividends. Probably not the best use of your time, you know, so you need to figure out for you, where is your time best spent? Working out for me, check, check and check. I've got to do that or I lose my flipping mind, you know, so I've learned over time that's a priority. What are the other priorities? Revenue drivers. Building up the funnel of pipeline of people I can sell products and services to. Like, there's a number of different things. And when I get breaks, I want to expand my brand, expand my message, and I'll go as a guest onto other podcasts or, you know, say yes to other opportunities. But very often now I am saying no. And I don't apologize for saying no. I'll say something like, unfortunately, my schedule is completely full and I don't have time right now to be a guest on your show. Would love to touch back on this, you know, in six months and see if things have changed. Thank you for considering me. Just something nice like that. You don't have to, you know, get in the weeds on it. Just unfortunately that's not going to work right now. But I appreciate, appreciate you asking. And that's fine. That's fine to say no to people. So it's really about figuring out what your priorities are, constantly reevaluating them, because mine keep changing. When I first launched the mentoring program, that was my priority and filling the pipeline for the next month. But now the executive coaching program is paying better dividends, and that's becoming more of a priority. So things are changing. Plus, my HarperCollins deadlines are coming up, so the book is becoming a priority. Plus, we're making the decision to launch more podcast episodes, so that's changing in priority. So it's this constant evaluation at the beginning of each week of, okay, do I have free time this week? Where, you know, should I allocate that free time? Is it researching click funnels? Is it researching, you know, SEO? Is it researching Shopify? Or is it being a guest on a different show. Or is it? You get the point spending more time figuring out who might next. Guests are constantly re evaluating because those are moving targets. And in the world we live right now, everything is changing so quickly that we've got to constantly reevaluate what we're doing. And sometimes you just want to hang with your kid. So make those decisions. Say no without an apology. You don't need to feel bad and you don't need to justify it until next week. And by the way, our new shows, hopefully they're live by the time you're hearing us. Or they're coming live right while you're hearing us this same week. Can't wait to hear back from you on that. Let me know if you like the new shorter episodes that we're adding in. We're going to be running three episodes a week till we get feedback from you on if you like them. And please let me know if you like the topics we're covering. If you'd like to see something else covered, let us know and we will make it happen. Here's to creating confidence in your life and mine until I see you next time. I decided to change that dynamic. I couldn't be more excited for what you're going to hear. Start learning and growing. Inevitably something will happen. No one succeeds alone.

You don't stop and look around once in a while. You could miss it.

Come on this journey with me.