#78: Kara Goldin, founder & CEO of Hint Inc.: Becoming Undaunted, Facing Your Fears, and Defying Your Doubters

Come on this journey with me each week when you join me, we are going to chase down our goals, overcome adversity, and set you up for a better tomorrow.

I'm ready for my close up.

Hi, and welcome back.

I'm so excited you're here with me today.

Thank you for being here. Okay, so, as always, per the norm, it's a crazy week and something so interesting happened that I wanted to share with you. It is shocking to me how much we don't know. And you'd think at 46 years old, I would pretty much have most things figured out. Hello. Not the case at all. And I'm going to give you some specific examples, hopefully to open your mind to what you potentially don't know, which is staggering. So I have on my website, heathermonahan.com, i have an inquiry thing that people can fill out if you want to reach out. You want to talk to me, you want me to be on your podcast, you want to book me for speaking, whatever, you know, it's just an opportunity conversion mechanism on my site. So I always have to check my junk mail because oftentimes these inquiries go to my junk mail. And so I was looking in my junk mail folder this week, and I see an inquiry from some guy that happens to live in Miami that owns a company to support authors and marketing for authors. So I Google it to check the guy out, because you never know, you know, what random person's reaching out to you. Do you really want to waste the time to get on a phone call with someone when they want to collaborate? I get a lot of those messages, let's collaborate. Which basically means people, people want me to post for them for free. Not interested. Thank you. Keep it moving. But sometimes you don't want to miss a viable opportunity. So I usually Google the purse and check it out and see, could there be value here. So the guy has this really impressive business and a massive track record of success. Come to find out, nine years of success in marketing books, but what his white space is that he owns. Gosh, I wish I had known this guy in 2018 when I launched my book. I did not know this guy, right? I just met him this week. Turns out he takes authors and makes them number one Wall Street Journal bestsellers, number one USA Today bestsellers. He found the hack to get people on the bestseller list on a few different really prestigious lists that I have not been on. I've been an Amazon bestseller. That was one hack that I figured out, which was all around how many reviews and sales you could get the first couple of days on Amazon and which categories you put yourself in. So I had found that hack out and I thought, oh, this is amazing, I own it. No, I needed this guy to get this other level hack, which is a much more prestigious list. I can tell you this much, my new book, I will be working with him and rocking his hack to get me on these other lists that I didn't make. Obviously, you want to be for credibility. You can reach more people, you can market yourself in a more prestigious way. It's all about building momentum. And I'm so grateful this guy reached out to me. Now, a couple of things. The reason he reached out to me is he saw me on LinkedIn through posts, right? So it's about me taking action, creating content and putting myself out there on a consistent basis. Then it was about me having a website with an inquiry form so people can contact me and can reach me. So he saw some of my content, clicked on it, and that took him down the rabbit hole of going to my website and then reaching out. So I set up a phone call with him. Guy seems like a great guy. He has a podcast. He asked me if I'd go on his podcast.

He.

And we talked about a bunch of different ways that we could work together. So I just challenge you to take a minute and think, you know, of course I wanted to be on those lists back in 18. I just didn't know how. And for whatever reason, that guy wasn't in my circle. So it's all about who's in our circle, who can we reach out to and ask for help, who can we brainstorm with. And instead of just saying, oh, this can't be done, you know, I probably just thought, oh, I can't get on the Wall Street Journal bestseller list. I can't get on USA Today. I should have challenged myself to say, heather, there is a way. Someone's got a hack out there. This guy has been in this business for nine years. So he was clearly in this business in 2018 and could have helped me and helped me reach those goals had I worked harder to find him, to Google him, to be relentless in my pursuit of that goal. So I'm challenging you today to say someone out there has a hack for whatever big picture goal it is that you have. Challenge yourself to find that person. Ask people in your network post about it. Google it. Be relentless in your pursuit. Because I missed that opportunity in 2018, there was a hack that existed. But I can promise you, in 2021, I'm not missing that hack. And I'm so grateful that I now have this relationship. And actually, the funniest part is this guy literally lives in my backyard. So an interesting epiphany for me that I had a solution in my backyard within three miles of my house, and I didn't exercise it. Cause I wasn't looking for it. Whatever big picture goal you have, just know someone out there has the hack for it. It's on you to find them. I'm so glad I found this guy. Okay. A topic that came up this week that I think is really interesting is around deadlines. And I was working with one of my clients and trying to understand why he hasn't gotten his side hustle. You know, new business, entrepreneurial initiative off the ground. He's been working on it for months, but really just hasn't materialized into anything. So we sat down on a call and I said, listen, I need deadlines around this. You need to report back to me on X date with X deliverable, Y deliverable. And it was an aha moment for him. He said, oh my gosh, that means I actually have to get this done. Yeah, it's a priority. You need to give me what is the deadline that you commit to? And I wrote it down in my calendar. And I'm sure he's gonna get it done right? Cause he's being held accountable. So just make sure you're giving yourself deadlines. And what's funny with HarperCollins for my new book, they're constantly giving me deadlines and giving me new deadlines. I swear, it's each week they're reaching out with. And again, I've never worked with a publishing house before, so this is all new. But each week they're reaching out to me, saying, okay, can you get this back by next Friday? Can you get this back by? And it's so smart because when you're managing multiple authors, they can't just, you know, leave it up to the author or, you know, when you can get to it. You need to hit deadlines and marks. And I want you to make sure that you're giving yourself a deadline, a timeline, Whether it be for a goal, whether it it be for a specific initiative. Because when you know you have to hit those deadlines, you will make it a priority. It will move to the top of your list, and you will get it done. So hold yourself accountable. It's been interesting working with a publishing house for me, because I never have. And a couple of things that I learned just so far, you know, this year in this journey is that I thought for sure they'd want me to innovate and mix things up. And my editor told me, no, Heather, that's not how publishing houses work. You need to get approval, and you work for them. You don't just go change things and innovate because you want to. That was super interesting to me. I don't know if I agree with it. I really don't. But, however, I'm trying to adhere to the way they do business. Right. Because this is a new relationship. And, you know, during the pandemic, they came back to me and were telling me that the pandemic really impacted the brick and mortar store sales. Of course. Right. Nobody was going out. And, you know, people are really staying home and buying things essentially online. So what that did was that impacted hardcover sales, because hardcover books are primarily sold at bookstores. You see them, you hold them, the author signs them, you buy them. So when people aren't going into brick and mortar stores, hardcovers are down. So they reached out to me and said, you know, what do you think about the idea of not having a hardcover? And I lost my mind in a very calm way. But internally, I was. I wanted to scream. I said, absolutely not. This is one of those experiences where I don't know the people I'm working with. Well, I've never met them in person because we did this deal during pandemic. And I do understand there's extenuating circumstances because of the economy, and everything is up in the air right now. However, I know I need a hardcover book. And so I very calmly said, you know, pump the brakes. Absolutely not. I need a hardcover. This is critical to the success of my book and my audience will purchase it. And if you want to go ahead and cut somebody else's hardcover, please do so. However, Leapfrogging Villains will have a hardcover. And I pushed back in a very calm and nice way. And it was super interesting because the woman I work with said, okay, Heather, give me some reasons why your book should have a hardcover and other people should not. And so what I could lean into was essentially looking at my book proposal that I had initially given them and then updating it to add more value now. And so that was really the exercise that I did. I went back to dig into analytics, to numbers. And it's super interesting that I'm being put on a board of directors now because that actually helps support me in that I'm dealing with a higher level business audience which has more resources, more wherewithal to spend. And a hardcover is the most expensive product that you would offer. You know, more than an ebook, audiobook, et cetera. So I put together a really great pitch letter basically to go back to them to say, here's why I need the hardcover book, and here's why it's going to sell for you, and here's why it makes sense to keep it. Right. So I put myself in their shoes and I sold them on why me and why my hardcover. And it worked, thankfully. But somebody else out there, I'm sure is getting their hardcover cut. The point being is that when someone comes back to you and wants to rescind on an agreement or change an agreement because of the economy or because of the situation or the pandemic or, you know, real reasons, which I completely understand, you don't have to accept it. You can try to understand, you can put yourself in their shoes, and then you can solve the problem for them. You can show them why that's not gonna work for you, or you can give them reasons as to why it doesn't make sense for you. And I believe most of the time, if you do a good job building that and making it simple for them to see, they will understand and work with you, which my publisher did and is doing, which is fantastic. Okay, so the board interview. Yeah, I wanna tell you about this. So I had another interview this week with the remaining board members that I had not met with yet on this board that I am being put on. It should be announced next week. And it was interesting. I wasn't nervous. It's all men. Shocker. Of course, I'm the only woman. And I just decided I'm going to show up as me. It was on Zoom, which, again, is so weird, but okay. So I'm getting used to it. And I showed up and I really didn't do any prep for this meeting. I researched each person that was going to be on the call so I'd know, have insight into them, and I took some notes.

Right.

So. So, of course, I did a little work, but then I just showed up as myself, and it was great. And they started asking me a bunch of questions, and I just leaned on my expertise in sales and marketing, and then I gave them my honest opinion on something that I didn't know how they would respond to. But I figured if I don't show up as the real bold version of me, they're gonna end up not liking me in the future because I inevitably, I will end up being that really strong version of myself. So I decided I'm just gonna be it right now. And so I said, listen, guys, I've got some ideas and some thoughts and I think it makes sense for me to share them with you right now versus a month from now when you already have me on the board to understand who you're really getting. And I came in hot with some big picture ideas. I didn't know how that would go. Luckily, it went fantastic and they loved it and it really bonded us because they were shocked that I saw something that they've been behind the scenes talking about without communicating it to everyone. And so it was a really great bonding moment and I was really proud of myself that I did that. And so now I'm just. We're waiting for the final paperwork. There's so much freaking paperwork that goes on behind the scenes for a board. I'm shocked at the questionnaire that I had to fill out. It was 30 something pages. The information you have to go through, it's really consumed by week. I can't believe the amount of work that goes into it. Okay, but that's enough about me. I can't wait to tell you about our guest today because she's flipping amazing and she and I really hit it off. Kara golden is the founder and CEO of Hint Inc. Best known for its award winning Hint water. And I'll tell you, she shipped after we did our interview, she shipped me two cases of water immediately. The peach is off the flipping charts. I'm obsessed. She totally has a new fan. She has received numerous accolades, including being named EY Entrepreneur of the Year 2017, one of InStyle's 2019 Badass 50, Fast Company's Most Creative People in Business, WWD Beauty Inc's Feel Good Force, and Fortune's Most Powerful Women Entrepreneurs. The Huffington Post listed her as one of six disruptors in business alongside Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg. Hello in good company. Previously, Kara was VP of Shopping and E Commerce at America Online, where she helped lead the growth of its shopping and e commerce business to over 1 billion with a B in revenue. She's an active speaker writer, and in 2017, she launched Unstoppable with Kara Golden, a podcast where she interviews founders, entrepreneurs and disruptors. Kara's first book, Undaunted, published by Harper Leadership, hello, will be released in October 2020. She's dropping it this week, so let's go. Kara lives in the Bay Area with her family. I'm so excited for you to meet Kara. Her story is remarkable and it just reminds you that you need to Stay connected to your vision and let nothing get in your way. Hang tight. We're gonna be.

Each week. Hi, and welcome back. I'm so excited for my guest today, Kara Golden. She's the founder and CEO of Hint Inc. Best known for its award winning Hint Water, the leading unsweetened flavored water, and the author of the New Undaunted. She's an active speaker and writer and host the podcast Unsweetened Unstoppable where she interviews founders, entrepreneurs, and other disruptors across various industries. She lives in the Bay Area. Kara, I'm so excited to have you here today.

So excited to be here.

So funny.

We were connected through a mutual friend and I swear in my life, everything goes back to good people in your life, looking out for you, connecting you to other good people. So thank you. Shout out to Scott McGregor.

So true. I couldn't agree more. Super. Shout out to him. But is that so true that, like, connections along the way? Like, I'm such a huge believer that when you meet people like, you haven't really figured out exactly the purpose, like, why they're there, but in addition to just being, you know, super nice, I always feel like, you know, the rivers connect somewhere along the way.

I don't know how it's possible. I didn't know. I didn't know you. I didn't know of you. I mean, I know how it's possible because the flipping media world we live in right now, we're bombarded, you know, with messages 24 7. But to hear now and to know you and to know of you and to know your story blows me away.

P.S.

You have the endorsements on the book, like, written by John Legend, Sheryl Sandberg. I mean, it's a VIP lineup of every celebrity CEO and massive entrepreneur in the world. It's mind blowing. I mean, the contacts that you've established and the credibility that you have is beyond impressive.

Oh, thank you. Well, and I think the other thing about those people is that they're all very different and they're all really kind people, you know, And I feel like the connections with them, I think, have just come about just not only from being, you know, a smart business person, but also just by being a person that is willing to give, you know, and also willing to listen and support. And I think that all those things are really, really things that you value for sure. But I think it's just definitely when I think about those people, that's what I think about.

It's so true. Doing good always comes back to you. And sadly, especially during this time of COVID I've seen there isn't as much doing good out there. There's more haters, more negativity. So when you do connect with somebody who has a good, positive vibe, who is putting good out into the world, that makes that connection even stronger and more meaningful.

100%.

So I have to tell you, having listened to some of your book, your upbringing with a father who, and I don't want to put words into your mouth, so I'd rather have you tell a story, but someone who had so much potential, so much freaking talent, such an amazing mind for business innovation and bringing good to market, ended up going that corporate career, you know, not the entrepreneurial let's roll the dice and bet on me. Even though super clear he had that potential within him. However, he raised a daughter who went an entirely different route. Can you tell us a little bit about your dad and the impact he had on you?

Yeah. So, you know, and actually, both of my parents, but my dad in particular. I mean, I was the last of five kids and my dad grew up in Arizona. And, you know, it's interesting because he was always, like, tinkering and creating. And he was originally at Armour Food Company and had developed this product called Healthy Choice, which many people know, and ultimately conagra ended up buying them. And, you know, and while he was doing that, I guess you call them side hustles now, he would come up with all of these crazy ideas and, like, barely develop them. He had this idea for a. An olive holder for cocktails. Like, he loved martinis. And he was like, people are always like, it's a missed opportunity. Like, there should always be kind of a message on there, on what you. You should talk to people about, because people might not. You know, it's an icebreaker. And anyway, he'd always be coming up with these great ideas, and so I would always, you know, be this little kid and watching him and, you know, listening to him at all times. And I remember one time saying to him, like, why don't you just start your own company? Not really even knowing how hard that was or really what I was asking him to do. But you know, what I didn't know until maybe even when I started my own company was that being an entrepreneur versus, like, working inside of a large company, people will ask me even today, like, should I go start my own company? And it really just depends on what you value and ultimately what else you have going on. And so for my dad, and again, I didn't learn this until much later. But my dad really valued getting five kids through college, like, to him, and maybe that doesn't. Maybe that's important to some people. Like that to me, is something that, you know, he wasn't going to articulate it to his kids and make him feel bad. Right. He really viewed that as like, I can't leave my job right now and go follow my own dreams. Which is kind of sad, right? But he really felt like he had to be here and, you know, with this large company and do what he was going to do. And again, you know, it wasn't horrible. He wasn't tortured, like, through the process. It was just like watching that and not really understanding that, I think really led to me kind of thinking and frankly, like, watching how large companies often deal with employees. Not all of them, but, you know, for me, I think that was definitely a lesson that I took away. And I also learned. The background on the story of healthy choice was my mom had decided to go back to work when I went to kindergarten. She had taken many years off to have kids, and. And she decided that she really wanted to go into retail. She was really into fashion. And so she went in at the bottom and, like, worked in a department store. She did some buying. She sort of was an original kind of personal shopper in these stores. But that was a career change at age 45. I mean, the number of people who have said, like, oh, you know, I can't follow my dreams because I've never had experience in that. I mean, that was like, during the summer 70s, right, where my mom is like, you know, just deciding, I'm gonna go do this. I haven't worked for years, but who cares? I'm gonna go do this, you know, because I want to do this. And of course, my dad's response should have been, you know, he's very old school. He's worried about who's gonna cook me dinner at night. And my mom was like, bye, like, I gotta work my evening hours. And so instead of actually learning to cook, my dad luckily worked inside of the, you know, a food company so he could develop a product and get somebody to back him in order to do this. So I think that the combination of those two things I think about were really who made me today? And, you know, I talk a lot about that too, and a bit in the book as well, that people are always kind of placed into your life, I believe, as, you know, learnings, right. And you should be purposeful and surround yourself with those learnings too, including not just in your own circle, but also can you hire people, for example, that are going to teach you things? And I'm sure you've been through this, Heather, as you've been growing your company as well. It's like it's always important to be learning, even if you get to the if you're the CEO or you're the vice president of sales, like why not hire people into your organization that really teach you some things? And I think like that's the most important thing that I've learned, you know.

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You've had the opportunity to learn from some really impressive people, including Jeff Bezos.

Crazy story. Well, I don't know if, I mean I learned a few things. I never worked for Jeff Bezos. But yeah, I'll share that story. It's kind of a crazy story. It was when I was at AOL and I was running E commerce at AOL was there very early and e commerce partnerships and so I was out trying to find. I almost viewed my role as kind of like a real estate developer, an online real estate developer. Because I go out and try and figure out okay, we need J. Crew and the Gap and some of these other retailers. But then for books, we felt like, you know, books were based on the titles that they carried. And so we were trying to get a relationship with Borders and Barnes and Noble and they ultimately turned us down. They didn't want to be on the AOL service, which was like a low. It was a failure. And so Doing what I've always done. I'm like, okay, well, what else can we do? And I had heard about this guy out in Seattle who was running this like, book retailer called Amazon. And it was tiny, like nothing, but I thought, okay, maybe we'll do something with Amazon and then eventually, like, we'll gain the attention of Barnes and Noble or Borders. And so I reached out to him and flew from San Francisco where I was living, and landed. I had a 5 o' clock meeting with Jeff. And so it's like 5:05,510. I'm driving around looking for his warehouse and there's no address on the building. And so finally it's like 5:15. I phone him and I'm like, I'm so sorry, I cannot find your place. And so he's like, oh, you go this way, this way, whatever. And he's like, you know, it's really too late, I can't see you. And I was like, wait, what? And he was like, you know, it's, it's too late. And I said, you just told me that there's no address on the building. And so how was I gonna, like, find where you are? And he was like, look, I've got so many bookshelves to like, build tonight, if you build bookshelves, but you gotta talk to me like, while I'm building bookshelves and you can help me build bookshelves. I'm like, I am an expert bookshelf builder. And so I would be happy to do that. And so we walked in and. Or I walked in and I was with another guy, Greg, that worked with me as well. We walk in and, you know, we're helping him like, build the bookshelves. And I remember at one point thinking that, you know, it was fascinating. First of all, he's the founder, he's like, getting scrappy, putting, you know, the Home Depot bookshelves together. And I asked him, you know, like, why do you think you're going to be able to be successful against these, like, really large companies, Barnes and Noble and Borders? And he is like, do you ever ask a person behind the desk at Barnes and Noble or Borders about a recommendation, like, based on a book that you had read in the past? And I said, yeah, I mean, I think so, but to be honest with you, I probably don't, because I don't really think that they necessarily, you know, have read all the books or know the tastes or whatever. And he said, this is the thing, like, search will actually help do that. And I said, search and he's like, yeah, you know, you could input a book and then it would come back and actually share with you some sort of recommendation and then you would buy it right there. And I'm like, wow, that is so fascinating. And we ultimately ended up doing a deal with Amazon. But I remember calling my husband on the way back to the airport and he's like, how did it go? And I said, I think we're actually going to do something. But I said, I wouldn't say he's like the nicest guy in the world, but he is so smart. And you know when you meet these people that you're just like, I don't know, like, it wasn't the loveliest conversation or time that I've ever spent, but I was actually like, whoa, like, what just happened in this room? And that's how I felt about Bezos. And I think it's so interesting because there's a story in the book where we ended up going into Amazon after a super misfortunate situation where we got, we got into Starbucks, we were doing really well, and then we got kicked out of Starbucks after a year and a half, which is a very low day in the history of Hint. And anyway, I get this phone call from Amazon, like two weeks after we had been kicked out of Starbucks. We have six months worth of inventory that's going to expire in our warehouse that I didn't know what I was going to do do with. So the Amazon buyer said to me, you know, we love Hint. We buy it in Starbucks all the time. And I didn't know if I should tell him that we just got kicked out of Starbucks. And but I said, we've got all this inventory in the warehouse. If you guys are interested in buying it, we can send a truckload immediately. And we became one of the number one products in grocery, like the first couple of weeks that Amazon launched. And then when they decided to launch Amazon prime, what they were seeing is that, I mean, remember like Amazon prime came after Grocery and that was kind of the first attempt at subscriptions. I mean, like, people weren't really buying subscriptions in books, right? They were buying them for items like a hint water that needed to be like replenished. You know, that people, they didn't want to carry the heavy cases home and they were buying it. And so anyway, we were on that service doing super well on Amazon for like a year. And then our buyer came to me and said, you know, it's fascinating because the people that are buying Hint are not the typical consumer that's buying some of our other beverages, that they're actually buying healthier things or they're trying to stay healthy, they're buying like diabetes monitors in addition to hint. And so there's this, like, halo that sits on them that is different than somebody who's buying soda, for example. It's just different. And so I was like, oh, I want to reach out to these consumers and talk to them. And they said, yeah, no, Jeff Bezos, like, he wouldn't allow you to do that. That's our data. And so ultimately, what ended up happening was from that meeting, I left Seattle again and I called our team and I said, we need to launch our own direct to consumer business because they've got all this data over there and we want our own relationship with these consumers. And so that was like, how that stemmed from. But again, I mean, it started many years ago of really understanding how smart Jeff Bezos was. And then ultimately lots of lessons there that I talk about in the book. Understanding who he was and how he's grown. I mean, I just have mad respect for, you know, things that he holds sacred, I guess, in the company. It's not necessarily something that is that I don't want. Of course I want his data about my product. But at the end of the day, I thought, Jeff isn't ever going to give me that data and instead I need to launch my own direct to consumer business. So I actually have that communication and that relationship with my consumer.

What's so different about you is that most people meet that roadblock and succumb to it.

Okay.

Oh, shoot, that stinks. I don't get to have that direct to consumer relationship. Oh, well, on my way try to find out another business or opportunity, something else that I can work on. And I really admire that. And it's also, you illustrated that in the story when you call Jeff and said, hey, I can't find your location. And he says, yeah, it's too late.

Don't come. You're like, oh, heck no.

I flew out here.

You don't just walk away.

And that's that persistence and. Or ability to continue towards your goal, regardless of the no's, regardless of the negativity, regardless of it doesn't work that way. That's what's clearly made you so successful and really the foundation of undaunted, right?

Definitely. And I wrote this book primarily because I would be on stage talking or I'd be talking to friends or entrepreneurs that I mentor, and I would think about these stories that you know, would really help me to explain why it doesn't have to be that way. And a few years ago, I remember speaking at this event, and, you know, you always get questions at the end of your talk. And I remember this one question in particular where somebody said to me, really more than said to me. They sort of labeled me as being fearless and being like, I don't have any doubts, and I. I'm sure I've never failed. And I thought, gosh, I basically, like, blurted this out of my mouth. I said, I've actually had a lot of doubts. I've failed a lot. Thankfully, I've had more successes than I've had failures, but I've had my fair share of failures. And I also have fears. And I think that the difference between you and myself and maybe other leaders and maybe top athletes is that we're okay with trying, and we're okay with, like, getting out of this bad zone. Whether that's, like, feeling like Amazon's got me, right? Or Starbucks is, like, kicking me out or whatever. Like, whatever that zone is, I'm like, I gotta find the rainbow. It really is a story of I have a million of these stories in my life, whether it's in business or personal, where I've got this really, really big mountain that I've got to climb. And I just have decided I'm not gonna live any other way, right? And this is what I'm gonna do, and I'm gonna sit there and figure this stuff out. And what I found is the more of these that you have that I talk about is even a personal story of I have a huge fear of heights. I mean, it's massive. It's, like, been in my life debilitating. And I decided, like, where do I remember that first fear? It was the Grand Canyon. I remember being so terrified of, like, falling off the canyon. My parents were, like, driving. I wasn't even outside the car. But I remember feeling like, don't drive too close to the edge, because I'll fall off. And they're like, you're not going to fall off. And so I thought, I'm going to go hike the Grand Canyon. And people who really know me were like, how are you going to do that? I'm like, I don't know, but I'm going to do it. So I trained for it. And then I decided, okay, if I can't see the bottom of the canyon, then that's good. And then my sister was hiking it with me, and she said, how are you going to do that. And I said, well, you guys are all going to come with me at 4 o' clock in the morning before the sun comes up. And she's like, are you serious? And I'm like, yeah, you love me. And it's like, really great, right? Did I know whether or not she was gonna do it? No, but I'm like, it'll be fun. Come on. Like, it'll be super fun. So I get this whole team. I thought I had the whole thing planned out. And then I encounter a lot of things. I'm not gonna ruin the story, but I encounter a lot of things along the way which I didn't anticipate. How many times does that happen to you where you think you got it all figured out? And then these little things come in.

Oh, yeah, Like, Covid, hello.

Right?

And then I'm like. And then you're getting through these things. They were awful. One of the stories in the Grand Canyon is I run into a rattlesnake. And did I ever, in my plans, think I was gonna run into a rattlesnake? And somebody had told me years ago, and I can't even remember who told me this, never get closer than 15ft to a rattlesnake. And I have no idea why anyone told me that information and why I absorbed that. But when I encountered a rattlesnake, I immediately backed up and I said, I'm gonna sit here and I'm gonna wait this thing out because I cannot go around this rattlesnake. I will, like, fall off the side of the mountain. It's 22 miles in one day. I'm exhausted. It's like the last five miles. And I started thinking about all of these challenges that I had been through in my life that actually were way harder than this rattlesnake. And I thought, I've raised a ton of money for my business. I, like. They started rattling through and I thought, like, it actually gave me the power to be able to encounter something like that. As simple as that may seem.

Seem.

I thought, this is not how it's ending. I've been through way too much. And then, sure enough, half an hour goes by and the rattlesnake goes down the mountain. And so I'm such a huge believer. And part of the reason, really, the reason why I wrote this book is if I can share some of these stories with people and inspire people to know that it's not always going to stay bad. Covid is not always going to be here. You have to plug through, you have to keep Going and. And oftentimes you'll go back and look at kind of what happened during this time and how you got through it or other hard times that you've had. And more than anything, like, if I can do it, anybody can do it. And that is what I think so often people need to hear you inspire so many people, Heather. It's the same thing. It's like. It's just if people hear your stories and when things were hard, it's like there's so much more education in there for people, and they'll take away different pieces, too, which I think is really interesting as well. So, yeah, that was the big reason why I decided to write it, I'll tell you.

So that's so interesting. I am the same way. I lean on my past challenges and failures as if I was able to survive, literally, and live through that. There is no way this one's taking me down. I didn't come this far to come this far. I made through that. And that's what coronavirus, just like you said, that will end up being the same way for us. If we were able to live through a freaking global pandemic, people, we can get through anything, and it's just further.

Fuel for us to move on and move ahead.

Yeah. And I mean, even when Corona. I mean, I'm still the. I will always be the founder of hint, but I'm still the CEO of hint. And like, Covid, when it hit in March, I mean, was tough. It was really tough. There were a lot of challenges, and there was a piece of our business, which was the corporate business, the office business, that totally shut down. And I think the interesting thing is, is I looked at what happened in 2009, the financial crisis, like, for me, and that was really hard. And I thought, I got this. They're very different. Right. But there's aspects of it that are similar. And I thought. And again, like, I never. I went through that time in 2009, and it actually makes me a better CEO. Right. I would have never said that. I never predicted Covid. Right. Like, that kind of stuff. And so I always say to people, like, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And I really believe that. And the more you can actually bring these, like, pieces together on what you've been through, I think that just makes you a better leader, a better entrepreneur, a better human, a better friend. Like, all of these things that ultimately really help you to just be better.

So true. So I had to look up the definition of undaunted because I was Just so curious, not intimidated or discouraged by difficulty, danger or disappointment. And this is very well represented in your challenge with the water industry and this old school thinking that only sugar soft drinks are going to work. And your actual conversation, when you were early on really struggling with, how are you going to have a brand and a product without preservatives? How will it survive without all these things? How can you make this work? And you get on the phone with a really high level executive at Coke to ask for help. And this conversation really illustrates undaunted.

You know, it was at a time when I wasn't really sure that I should be doing this. Like, I doubted whether or not should be doing it. I found it incredibly hard. You know, it sounds great when you get your product on the shelf at Whole Foods and you know, you hear that people are buying it and it's great. And then suddenly when you're like, okay, I want to get into more Whole Foods. And I mean, I was literally loading up my Grand Cherokee and delivering and I'm like, what am I doing? Like, this is a lot of like, heavy lifting and how do I get it outside of San Francisco into these other places? And we were trying to figure out shelf life. And, you know, there were a lot of pieces that, again, not coming from the beverage industry. I felt like I just didn't have knowledge and I was having a really tough time. There was no book on sort of figuring this stuff out. So a friend connected me with this gentleman at that Atlanta company. And I get him on the phone and, you know, I didn't even know I was gonna do this. Like, this is how crazy like, the call was. But as I'm like, you know, thank you so much for talking to me and telling him a bit about the story and how well we're doing. And I was like, you know what, you can just have the company. Like, I'm fine. Like, I'm gonna go get a tech job. Like, I. I'm in the right area, I've had the right experience, whatever. And he interrupts me and says, sweetie, this product isn't going to go anywhere because Americans love sweet. And I'm thinking, did he just call me sweetie? Like, over the phone? And I'm like. And I didn't even hear what he said. He was blah, blah, blah, blah, blah for the next, like, couple of minutes. And then I was like, okay, I got to come back into this conversation because I realized at that point that he was viewing the same problem differently. He viewed this idea of like, helping consumers get Healthy by telling them it's less calories. And for me, I had lived it. I mean, my backstory just to give everybody who doesn't know it. I mean, I was totally addicted to diet coke. It wasn't even full fledged coke. It was diet coke. And you know, at aol, I've now, of course these people don't tell you when they're working with you, but I would drink like 8 to 10. People would be afraid to come into meetings with me if I didn't have a diet coke. I was like that girl. And so I decided one day that I didn't understand the ingredients in diet coke and I put it to the side and I started drinking plain water. But again, I didn't have a job at this point. I was taking some time off and I finally was like, be saying to anyone who listened, I was like, wow, do you know what this stuff is that's in this diet coke? And they're like, no. And I'm like, I don't either. And then I started realizing, like, there were these industries like diet soda and vitamin water and like low fat that were actually like tricking people, me into believing that they were better than they were. And, you know, I was kind of like, I felt foolish, frankly, because I had gained, you know, over £50. I had like slowly, like gained all this weight. And I was never a very big person, But I had also developed terrible adult acne. I had no energy. This is when I left AOL after seven years. And you know, every doctor I went to said, like, oh, as you age, like, your hormones change, you know, your metabolism stops, you had babies too close to one another. All of these things that I was like, okay, maybe, but I don't know, why don't I start working out? Why don't I start shopping at like healthy places like whole foods? And that wasn't kind of working either because I was overeating probably, like, everything was so good.

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But when I decided to give up my diet soda and start drinking plain water and this is where it goes back to the situation with the nice gentleman in Atlanta, I realized that I mean I lost £24 in the first two and a half weeks of just giving up diet soda and switching to Water.

And.

And what I realized was, like, there were these big industries like diet soda, that they were obviously big, lots of people drinking those things, but that was in exchange for drinking plain water. Like, I aspired to be a plain water drinker, but I thought, like, the real reason why I'm not drinking plain water is it's so damn boring to me, and it's not to everybody, but to some people like me, and to those people that are finding vitamin water and Diet Coke and Diet Pepsi and everything else, like, that's why they're doing it. They know that water is better for them, clean water is better for them, but that is, like, the key thing. So I just, like, let the guy talk for a while about how, you know, I was so wrong and I had seen it in my own life that I was right. Right. And I also saw how it changed my health. And he was not interested in that conversation around health. He was interested in the conversation of what consumers buy. And I'm like, but maybe they buy that because they want to get healthy. And he was like, but that's not why they buy. And I was like, wow. Like, that is like, that's a lot, right? And so I quietly, like, after an hour, hung up the phone, and I thought, okay, this is the permission that I need and the importance of me staying with the program because they're doing their thing and I'm doing my thing, and that's what's important. And so again, that story, people ask me all the time, like, yeah, but, you know, he's a big executive, runs, you know, one of the largest companies and, you know, in the soda industry of 2000 companies out there, like, why didn't you listen? And I said, because it was different. I had decided in my mind how he viewed the problem was just different. And so if he's looking at the problem differently, I thought it's comparing apples to oranges. He has his opinion, I've got my opinion. But I didn't want to convince him that my opinion was better because I thought he's got a lot more money than I do and, like, it's going to take him a little while to turn the cruise ship around. But if he does, that's going to be really bad. So I got to just get going and put the gas on. But yeah, I mean, you know, still to this day, how I think about hint, people will say, like, oh, what's it like running a beverage company? That's not even what I look at today as really what we do. I mean, we like help consumers get healthy to, you know, and really find health. I mean, Today in America, 40% of Americans today have type 2 diabetes or pre diabetes. It's crazy. When I started this company it was like 2% and we have a massive addiction to diet sweeteners. I mean, stevia is probably the biggest one today yet. When you look around at people who are truly addicted to stevia, there are many of those people that have these health issues that were non existent years ago. Right. Most of those people are also the ones that are fighting, you know, to those people have, you know, some other issue around heart disease. And so, you know, that for me is really the problem that I hope that we can actually solve, which is helping consumers drink water. And, and I believe that if we could actually get people to enjoy water, whether it's plain water or a product like hint that we wouldn't be dealing with all of the health issues. And unfortunately there's a lot of money and industry behind that, including the health insurance industry, the soda industry. So I never started this company sort of even grappling with like how mammoth that is and how the decks are stacked so badly against consumers. And so that is a long winded answer of really talking about kind of what we've taken on. But again, it was one step at a time and there were plenty of times and plenty of people that said, you know, you're going the wrong way. I wasn't going to allow it to stop me.

That's such a great story. I always say to people, don't take advice from someone who hasn't been where you're going. And while some people might have seen that exec as where you wanted to go, it wasn't. And it goes back to the why. Because you were solving a different problem. He was solving a sales and revenue problem, you were attempting to solve a health problem. And that was so fantastic that you were able to differentiate because oftentimes people can get confused when doubt creeps in and fear creeps in, oh, this person makes more money, has a bigger job. I should just listen to them and I should back off. And that was so well done that you saw that difference and I so applaud you and I full circle how.

It kind of goes back to your.

Dad and you know, he was creating this healthy, healthy food and creating a healthy life. It's so interesting to me to see how you started out and now how you got to where you are and that why and that passion to help and do good. It's so amazing. And I'm so grateful you wrote this book. Cause it's gonna inspire so many people.

Kara, thank you.

It's really exciting. I'm like, it's like I said, it was four years in the making, and it was one that I really am excited to get it out there finally. And the reviews are really great. Thank God. You know, in the early part. And you know, it's sort of like having your. In my case, I have four kids. It's like having a fifth child when you know your kids are great, but when people actually say you don't know, like, oh, my God, this is awesome. And frankly, it's the same feeling that I get share with people too, that entrepreneurism is really tough. And I think this book really talks about it. And sometimes it's lonely. It's many long hours. It's all of that. But having a product where consumers are giving you feedback, oh, my God, I can't live without it. You guys have really helped me get healthy. There's no substitute for that. Right? Like, it's like consumer feedback is amazing. And I mean, you. I know you subscribe to that as well. It's really, really important. So I feel like that's really the excitement that I'm feeling on this.

Yeah. We live in a review and recommendation world. And the fact that you have those testimonials is just further validity to just keep going. So where can everyone find undaunted?

It's undauntedthebook.com and it's also available on Amazon too. And so it's very exc on Audible as well. So we're very excited launching October 20th. But yeah, we're super excited. And I'm on social all over at karagolden, so definitely reach out and let me know what you think.

Well, I love the book. It's an amazing story. You're an amazing story. You're an inspiration. Thank you so much for the work that you're doing.

Thank you.

All right, we'll be right back. I asked you to try to find your passion. I hope you enjoyed meeting Kara as much as I did. I'm so excited for the launch of her new book happening right now. Check it out. Okay, let's get to Q and A. Hey, Heather, Love your posts and messages. Curious you have insight on working with kids who lack confidence and carry anxiety over putting themselves out there. Okay, so this question is actually about a young man. The young man's very smart. His grades are excellent. However, he has a difficult time bringing the confidence to new or unsettling Situations, as do most people, by the way. He says he wants him to go out there, put himself into fear, step into it. But his son is struggling to do that. A couple things around kids. Number one, look at yourself, right? So to this father, I would say, are you leading by example? Are you stepping into fear and uncertainty and showing that it's a celebration to fail? I love that. Sarah Blakely, the founder of Spanx, shares that growing up, her dad at dinner every night would say, okay, tell me about your failures today.

Yay.

Let's celebrate them. And she continues that mindset at Spanx. She has her oops meetings weekly, which is, where'd you screw up this week? All right, great. Let's give everyone a round of applause. Great job screwing up. It's okay to step into fear. It's okay to quote, unquote, quote fail, because the real fail is not trying. So I challenge you, dad, Are you exhibiting that? Are you celebrating the failures or someone exhibiting that? You know, perfect and safe and. And caution is the only way to go? So first look at yourself. You need to be the living example. You need to be leading with stepping into fear. You need to be rocking and celebrating and checking in daily on, oh, my gosh, did you put yourself out there and go for it and you blew it?

Great.

I'll never forget when I stepped onto that TEDx circle, saying to myself, heather, if you don't go out there right now, you will never forgive yourself. If you go out there and blow it, I'm gonna be so proud of you. So I've learned, I've taught myself, and it hasn't always been this way, but I've taught myself to reframe fear as a green light. That means go and go faster. I was petrified walking out there, but I knew stepping into it was my answer. Fear is the green light. That means God. So, number one, you need to show up and be that example. You need to ask daily, you know, with frequency, okay, where are you stepping into fear today? Where are you putting yourself out there and attempting to fail? Failing is the growth. Failing is the answer. We've been taught incorrectly. And now today we can reframe it, we can change it. And our leadership and our example is really going to have a big impact because you're reframing the way your child sees fear. You're reframing the way your child sees stepping into uncertainty. I would sit down with your child and make a list of every time they've stepped into fear and the outcome they didn't die. Oh my gosh.

Excellent.

We did not die from that. Yes. So write it down, make it clear. Then another thing I would do is I would look at the things that your child feels confident in and see and show, you know, everyone has. Maybe your child's confident in school, taking tests. Right. Because you said your child's very smart. Well, that's something to feel great about. You can take that confidence that you have in that moment and, and apply it. If you were able to achieve confidence there, then you have the potential to achieve it in other areas. Where right now are you struggling with confidence in speaking to other people? Okay, great. Let's start off with baby steps. The next time we go to Starbucks, you say, hi, how's your day going? A little baby challenge like that, you know. So I would, I would initiate small challenges and then high five and celebrate. Blow em up when they happen. Right. So you can start with really small initiatives to, to build momentum, to keep celebrating stepping into fear, to keep celebrating seeing fear as a green light and to acknowledge and reward failures because that's really a great starting place for any child. Okay. Hope that helps. And I hope that answer your question also fire any villains. If your child is around negative people that are putting him down, you need to get those people out of his life because that will really impact confidence.

Okay.

Hey Heather, thank you for posting. I've been working hard since I kick started my career post college. I progressed from working, blah, blah, blah, blah. There was a time where I was shining my light in the office because all I did was help other people and do my best and spread positive energy. However, I'm in a new role. I feel like everyone is against me. Can you help? Yeah. So if you feel like everyone's against you, they may be, I don't know.

Right.

We don't have that answer right now. But you need to find out because you going into a room where people are, you know, know, trying to undercut you, trying to pull you down, you're in the wrong room. I used to be in that room and I have a lot of experience with this, trying to win everyone over and it's a lost cause. If you're around negative people in a toxic work environment, you need to find another job that is not the place for you.

Right.

Unless you're at a leadership level. And I was so high up in the company, I still couldn't change it because the actual top person was negative and toxic and that was hard for me to understand. However, I'm so glad I fired those villains. And I'm no longer in that situation. You need to get villains out of your life. And the biggest opportunity to do that is probably for you to start looking for another job, maybe move to another team. But if you truly your intuition and your gut is telling you that these people are against you, they probably are. So check in with yourself. And as you do that, start looking. Where else could you apply your unique skills and talents? Talents you want to show up to a team in a room that embraces you, encourages you, and challenges you to grow, not tries to set you up for failure. So fire your villains. Get rid of them, and get going. So this week, one of my good friends, her daughter, was going for her first interview. And so I sat down with her to help her prep for the interview. And I just wanted to share some of the insight that I gave her in case you're up for an interview or, you know, a young person looking to interview number one, do your research, Right? So I had her send me, what is the job posting. Send me your resume. Do some research into the company and the person interviewing you, because we want to know what connection points we have with that person. People like people that they know, like, and trust. So if you find out they went to the same college that you went to, or you find out certain people on the team went to your school, find connection points, you can say, oh, wow, I saw a lot of people on the team play softball at night. Whatever it is, but whatever connection point, identify it, find it. And make sure you weave that into the conversation. Also, it shows that you did your homework, which is really impressive. So many people don't. Then what you want to do is you want to look at that job posting and look at, they're looking for people who are responsible, trustworthy, well spoken, whatever it is, and then come up with a story and example from your resume, your track record that illustrates each one of those points. So with this young woman, they were looking for people who are responsible and take initiative. And so we looked back at her track record and said, hey, last year you went for a semester abroad. You dropped yourself off in a country that you knew nothing about by yourself. And not only did you figure it out and make it work, you thrived. So let's use that story as a way to, to showcase you are responsible, you are trustworthy, and you can succeed in uncertain situations. And so we went through all of the things they were looking for, went through her track record and did just that, came up with a story and example for each one. Then we Sat down and wrote a bunch of questions out that she would ask after the interview. And one of them is to ask for the order. You gotta go and ask for the job. So we brainstormed her, saying, Mr. Interviewer, have I successfully answered your question so that you feel really confident in and moving me on to the next interview and endorsing me to go for this job? You know you want to ask, hey, are you picking me? If they're going to say no, I want them to say no while we're still on the line because then we can reframe it and challenge them and figure out where we fell short and let them know why we are the right person. So I let her know we never get off the interview, call, meeting, whatever, without asking that question. Are you endorsing me to go for the job? Have I done an adequate enough job answering your question? So you feel really good about endorsing me? If they come back and say, you know what, I can't endorse you. There's just, you know what? You don't have X skill. Well, that gives us the opportunity to go in for that close and share, you know what? I miscommunicated. I didn't do a good enough job communicating this to you. Let me dive back into that topic again and then you have that opportunity to address it. So definitely always go for the close when you have the ultimate decision maker on the line. Not after. And then after her meeting, he did say to her, yes, I am going to pass you to the next round of interviews. You did a great job today. Appreciate you being here. Then I told her, go find this man's email right now. Go onto LinkedIn, figure it out and send him a thank you note to follow up. Because that's another point of distinction. You can separate yourself from mediocrity when you put the extra work in. So take the time, do the extra work. And actually, I also told her, take out a Google alert on the company because when good news comes up, you want to be the first one to reach out to say, hey, Peter, I saw you just got promoted or I saw, you know, you want to show people that you care. You want to show people that they're a priority to you and you'll become a priority to them. Hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, please, like share, subscribe, review and please post about it on social. Whenever you do, I will repost. I appreciate your support more than you know. Here's to you creating confidence and knowing I'm doing it right along with you until next week. I'll see you then. I decided to change that dynamic. I couldn't be more excited for what you're gonna hear. Start learning and growing. Inevitably something will happen. No one succeeds alone. You don't stop and look around once in a while.

You could miss it.

Come on this journey with me.