#84: Resiliency, Creativity, & Never Settling with Mario Armstrong

Come on this journey with me each week when you join me, we are going to chase down our goals, overcome adversity and set you up for a better tomorrow. I'm ready for my close up. Hi and welcome back. I'm so excited that you are back here with me today. Thank you for being here. As you know, I have been working on my second book, working title, Leapfrogging Villains. Because that is not my decision apparently. It's so weird. So I, I am a rookie when it comes to writing a book for a publisher. This is my first time ever having done it. It is completely and entirely different than doing a self published book. Okay. When you write a self published book, you are working for yourself. You decide when something's due, you decide the title, you decide everything. It's your choice. So in some ways that's easier, right? But of course, the reason why I wanted to work with HarperCollin's leadership and wanted an agent in the publishing house was I recognize I don't know what I'm doing. Yes, I know that I have a message to share. Yes, I know I have knowledge and teachings I want to share with the world. And I know I have another great book inside me. But I'm not sure that I know the hacks, the, the teachings, the learnings of the book business. So that's why I decided to go the route of an agent and a publishing house that have hundreds of years or whatever it is of experience, right? Massive knowledge and experience. So it's been a learning lesson to say the least. So one of the learnings is, you know, there's this messaging doc that they send to you and they put what they believe the proper messaging is. It's really focused around emotion and impulse buy. It's really all around sales. So it's so funny because I'm sure most authors don't think they're salespeople, but I keep seeing this lesson everywhere. No matter what business you're in, no matter what you do, everything that you're ultimately doing is driven back to how can you market and sell the product or service, right? So HarperCollins brought me on to write a book. However, a lot of the communication and ask they have of me are around how to sell and market the book. And it's not just me. That's how it works obviously for all authors, but it's so interesting to see. And no matter what your line of work think of that, what is the messaging that you're going to market with? How do you market yourself and your Business. How can you improve that? Are you connecting on an emotional level such that people are compelled to buy your product or service? And luckily for me, I have a lot of expertise and experience in that. It's what I did my entire life in corporate America. And essentially I've just been in sales my whole life. So that part's good. And I was able to take the document they sent me and said, oh, no, this can be better. And, you know, I feel really confident in that. Cause I have experience doing it and send it back to them. However, I've never written a book for a publishing house and I don't know what to expect. So it was really funny. The last few months, I've really been focused, you know, and really the last six weeks, just all in on the book. Because my deadline was approaching. So any. And this is why deadlines are so important. And I respond so well to deadlines. It allows you to prioritize. And people always say, how do you balance it all? The way you do is you reprioritize each week and each day. What are the things that have to happen today? I have five meetings. They have to happen. They're on the calendar. Right. But then I have 20 other things that are, you know, improving my social media strategy, getting ready for the holidays, you know, all these other different things that you're working on. Big picture. So it's about looking at what has to happen today. What is the number one priority today, what are the deadlines that are approaching, and then fill in with all these other projects, concepts and initiatives that you have. Innovating your business, marketing your business, whatever it may be. So I was all in on the book the past two months, whatever. And as my deadline was approaching, I kept working on the manuscript. I sent it to my editor and. And he sends me a message back and he says, hey, Heather, what's your word count on this supposed to be? Well, I don't know. I mean, what do you even mean, word count? Right. That's. I'm not. I don't speak that lingo. I don't know. My book. I love my book. My book is great. What do you mean, word count? So he says, go pull your contract with Harper and take a look. I did just that. So I pulled the contract with Harper and I didn't know to do this. I mean, how would you know when you're new at something, you just don't know. And it said 60,000 word count. So I call him up, I said, oh, hey, it's 60,000 words. He said, you're at 68,000. I said, oh, my, that's amazing. They're gonna be so excited. They paid for 60 and they got 68. And he says, I don't really think it works that way. And I said, what do you mean? I'm over delivering. That's my whole thing in life and in business. I always over deliver. One might think that makes sense. I thought it made sense. But it just goes to show, everyone starts as a beginner. And when you're a beginner, you just don't know. So you have to rely on others. You have to ask for help. So he says, I kind of think that +8k is too much. You've gone over too much and we need to cut back and maybe we could cut a couple chapters. Why don't you look at it and cut a couple chapters? Well, I don't want to. Right. So when you've worked on something and you love it, and I've worked really hard the past few months. I mean, I've worked more than a year on this book, but the past couple of months, really just all in on it every day, writing and rewriting and editing and rewriting. And. And so I said, all right, let me reach out to my agent. So I reach out to Jill and I say, listen, I've come in, you know, 8k over what my goal number was. Is this. Okay, what should I do? Should I cut? And P.S. this is. We're in the week of the deliverable, right? The book was due December 1st. And she says, here's the thing, Heather. And she explains to me, and it's so funny when you just don't know. You don't know. She said, the book business is down this year during the pandemic, and it's interesting to learn and understand the whys that drive a business. So a lot around the publishing business that I didn't know is cost. So what are the costs to produce a book? And, you know, how does that affect things? Well, when they can't project the sales accurately and they can't project mine because they've never worked with me before, if Rachel Hollis is doing a book, they've done 10 with her, they can project. Right? So that makes sense. So I'm a variable and unknown right now, so they're trying to keep costs at a certain level where they have success with new authors. Makes a lot of sense, now that I understand it. Then travel is down, so people aren't in the airport, people aren't buying books in the airport. People aren't reading books on the plane. People aren't on trains reading books. Right? There's all these factors. People aren't in brick and mortar stores anymore, walking around Barnes and Noble picking up books. So book sales are down in the industry this year, which is a red flag for them, for all their new books, for all their authors. I'm sure my agent's trying to explain it to me so that I can better understand why I should not have gone over the 60k mark. So as she explains it all to me, I'm clear. I still don't want to cut anything, though. So I say to her, here's my idea. Can we deliver at 68k? And then ask for their expertise to come back to us and say, hey, guys, we think you should cut this chapter or that chapter. I'd rather just. In my opinion, I'd rather over deliver and then defer to them on where they see the value, where they don't see the value, what connects or what doesn't connect. And she said that was fine. She said, I don't think that's gonna be a problem. She said, I've seen a lot of people deliver over 5,000. She said, Eight's really high, but okay, try that, Heather. Okay, great. So I said to her, do you wanna read the book first before I submit? She said, no, not unless you need me to. And it was so funny. You feel so excited and so proud and so. And everyone else is like, well, yeah, whatever. Well, I'll read it when it comes out. You know, no big deal. And that takes some getting used to, I guess. You know, back in the old days when I was in corporate America, you'd show up and do your job and you were so accustomed to. I knew what to expect for the most part. I knew what was going to happen. And now in this new world, I have no idea every day what's going to happen, what to expect. And it constantly makes me laugh, right? So I hang up. And I was just laughing. Here I am like a little kid on Christmas morning, so excited to deliver this book. My agent thinks it's like, okay, yeah, whatever, how they're submitted, and let's take the next step in the process, okay? So I go back to my editor and he says, listen, just go through again. He said, I want to make sure that you're relating enough to your audience. Which is a great point and great question. I said, oh, that's, you know, something I haven't been deliberate about. He said, so go back through and make sure Your key takeaways. Everything is super relatable. Not just, you know, relatable to a certain faction of your audience. Great point. Okay, I'll do that. So for the next few days, I was head down on this initiative that he gave me, and I sent it to him. And I'll tell you, when I go all in on things and people ask me, you know, about the prioritizing and how do you develop multiple revenue streams and how do you have multiple businesses? And here's the thing. I try to focus on something that I'm really developing, and then when the book. I've delivered the book, I can peel off a little and focus more on everything on a grander scale. But when you get close to the deadlines, I just. I really go all in. So during those times, I don't always work out as much. I don't always clean my house as much. I don't always get my mail as much. I mean, I go all in. And it's kind of crazy and not probably not the greatest, but it does work for me. I don't know that I recommend it for everyone, but then when I come out of that fog, I'm sort of not my best version of myself, right? I'm tired, I'm stressed out. I've been prioritizing that one thing so much that other things are losing attention. And so it's important to kind of reboot. Well, during that time, a friend of mine sent me a note and said, do you want to go to the Keys with our boys overnight just to get out of our apartment? Which, oh, my gosh. I said, yes, yes, and yes. Because I just need to get outside with my child and, you know, instead of being stuck in our apartment, first world problems. I know it, but it just. It would be nice to be outside. And this is such a great time of year to be in Florida. You know, why not actually be outdoors when, you know you have the potential to do it? So I said, you know what? Forget it. I was a couple days away from my deadline, and I just said, I sent it to him. Let's go. And we went to the Keys and had, you know, a nice time. Got to go on a boat and be outside, and it was so beautiful, and the kids had a great time, and we're coming home, and I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, my book is due in one day. What was I thinking? And I start getting so stressed out. But it was funny because I get home and I get an email from my editor, who I love Peter Economy, such a great guy. If you need an editor, definitely you can find him on LinkedIn, Twitter, he's so great. Google him. Great guy. So he sends me a note and says, hey, you are one day away from your book delivery. Why don't you take another run at this again? I mean, I can't. I couldn't even believe it. And I look at the email and I look at the version and the version on this one says, leapfrogging villains manuscript version 6. And people ask me a lot. This is so true. And I have to tell you this. You know, hey, Heather, how do you know when is good enough? You know, how do you get yourself to just pull the trigger and do it? Because a lot of people are afraid. What if it's not perfect? And what if I didn't dot an I or cross a T? Or what if there's a mistake? And what if I don't go back through again, right? All this craziness, which I've shared with you before, perfectionism, when stripped down is just fear. That's all it is. I'm definitely not a perfectionist, so. And my first book had three errors in it. And I still love my first book, so I'm super proud of it and I'm proud of the errors. So if you can find them, let me know. But anyhow, so I. I get home, I look at the email and it says, leapfrogging villains manuscript version 6. This is how crazy I am. My lucky number is lucky number five. And anytime I can't have my lucky number five in sports, whatever. When I was younger, I would always say one better than my lucky number is everything six. So I see that number six, and I just said to myself, I'm not gonna open it. I'm not gonna do anything. I'm gonna save the doc on my computer and I'm gonna send the email to HarperCollins leadership, click copy my agent and be done with this book. Bye. Bye. And that's what I did. I just. I didn't even open it, which is so. It's funny to me, but I just made the decision. I said, you know what? I could sit here and drive myself crazy for the next 24 hours and not sleep and not check my mail and not do all of this. And it's not helpful. But I put a year of work into this. And really, the last couple of months, crazy every day. I just said, trust yourself, this is going to be good enough. I love the fact that it was version 6. I didn't want to submit it at 7? And I just said, okay, we're going all in. And we did. So then I sent a note to my agent because I have no idea. I said, when do we hear back from them? You know, do I hear back this week? And then what's, what's the process like? And she said, hey, Heather, it really is dependent upon how many books they have in the queue right now. If she's working my point of contact on a lot of books, she said, we might not hear back from them for a month, which is a total bummer when you've worked so hard, right, and you're so excited. So I said, okay, you know, thank you for setting the expectations. Thank you for teaching me. I'm just going to, you know, try to put it on a shelf in my mind and move on. And then we got an email back from her, and I was so excited, she said, because I explained that I was 8k over in the email. And she said, hey, Heather. Yeah, 8K is too much. However, she said, I'm going to put two editors on your book. One is a story editor, and I guess the other was a grammatical error, I believe. And she said, I'm going to ask both, both of them to look for opportunities where you might have been, you know, duplicative or, or there might be an opportunity to cut back before we start cutting chapters. So that made me really happy. And she said, I'm super excited to read the book and I will get back to you when we have feedback. And so that's it. So it's a weird thing. I'm just waiting. So I'll. I'll keep you updated, hoping for good feedback. Don't really know what to expect, but it is wild just learning and going through this beginner journey yet again. Okay, so I want to talk a little bit about how I met my guest today. I had the opportunity to be in the Event Planner Expo in October. It was one of the biggest events I've been in all year. It was huge. I got to headline the event with Shark Tank alum Daymond John. And it was such a. It was an unbelievable event, by the way, really, so well done. And I was blown away by it. So I had an all access pass as a speaker and I got to watch all of the speeches that you wanted to. So all day I kept my computer up with the event running in the background. And whenever I'd walk by the computer or had a break, I'd see who was speaking and listen. And some of them were so good. I'd sit and watch the whole thing. Others, you know, just don't connect with you or whatever or weren't as strong. There was this one guy, Mario, speaking, and he just lit up the room. His energy was exceptional. I was so drawn to him. I watched his entire speech and I DMed him right after. And I just thought, this guy is my people. So reached out to him. He was so kind to reach back. And then we coordinated. It took, whatever, a couple months to get time for us to record. But in that interim time, not only did he listen to my podcast, which I thought was so sweet, people never do that, but I really listened to a lot of his YouTube videos. He has a show, you know, he has this amazing story. And his story, to me, what I my takeaway and why I wanted him here was the resilience is unbelievable. He and his wife basically gave up everything to bet on his dream, to go all in on his. Their dream. She's the business side of it. He's the face side that, you know, they were down to nothing. And that inspires me so much. He also has a really interesting way, he and his wife, of looking at the business instead of, for example, you know, I want. I pitched my own TV show and haven't been able to bring it to life yet. He has been pitching his own show for a while. And the traditional way is to go to Bravo, to go to NBC, to go to Fox, whatever it is, right? And go this traditional way. And then if they like your pitch, they hire you, they pay for the production, and there you go, you're live. Well, he wasn't just like me. He wasn't getting the yes to what he wanted to. So instead he decided to say, okay, how can I find a way to pay for the cost and bring a product to life until someone does want to pick it up? He decided to say, how can I chop this thing up and reinvent it in a way no one else has? And he figured it out. And he figured it out through sponsorships. And what's so interesting is that's what I used to do in my old career in corporate America. I was in charge of revenue. We'd sell sponsorships, you know, for millions of dollars all over the country. But I never stopped and thought, hey, my show's not getting picked up. Why don't I sell a bunch of sponsors to cover all my costs to take care of this so I can bring this concept to life? Yet he did. So what I learned from him is there's always Another way, there's always a more creative way to cut this concept up, to reinvent this concept and to make it possible. If we just keep challenging ourselves to find the solution. Now, my friend Mario is a two time Emmy award winning TV host. He's got his own show. He's killing it now, but it's because he didn't give up and he chose to see it differently. That in a way, nobody else was seeing it. No one else was seeing it. And then last week I saw on his social media, his face was up on the NASDAQ board in Times Square in New York City. And it was just so cool to know. I was so proud of him and so grateful that he made time to come on the show and share his story with you and inspire you. I just know, oh, my gosh, you are gonna love Mario. He's fantastic. Total inspiration. Super, super grateful for him being here today. And I can't wait to hear what you think. So hang tight. We'll be right back. Meet a different guest each week.

And welcome back. I'm so excited today to be joined by my new friend, Mario Armstrong.

Heather, thank you so much for having me on. This is really a pleasure. I know we both bumped into each other at a virtual conference. You're doing your thing, killing it. I was trying to do my thing killing it. And you. I'm just so honored to be here and humbled to be on your podcast. So thank you.

You know, it's one of those things that I like to share with everybody. You know, people say, how do you get these people for your show? You know, I just DM'd you on Insta right after saying like, oh, my God, you were so good. And, you know, this was also interesting. I can't stand 2020. Like, I call it like it is. I know some people are like, oh, there's beautiful things happening. It's been a tough year. But one thing I do like is when you and I used to speak at events on site, you bomb in, you get in for your window and you leave. And you don't always get to sit and really appreciate all these other great speakers during this virtual world. I've gotten a chance to listen and hear so much value. And as I shared with you earlier, you were hands down and this lineup was sick.

Unbelievable.

You were hands down the best speaker that day. And I would never have found you had I not had that opportunity to watch you. And I was, I was blown away. Your energy, your messaging, it was just so powerful. And I just, I Had to talk to you because you did such a great job.

You make a great point. So number one, did you all just get that takeaway? Heather listened to other speakers and then she reaches out in the cold call DM style and Instagram and then somebody replies and then she books her guests like, this is genius what you do. But it's so true about these times that we get to actually spend a little bit more time. We're not trying to catch flights, we don't have to leave a hotel room. Like all these things that we would normally have to do and kind of miss each other in the wind. We can actually stick around and see who these other people are. And I'm so glad because now I got a brand new friend that I'm really excited about and learning about you and what you've been creating, what you've been developing. And then I go, how come I didn't know about Heather? So it's like this mutual thing, this mutual appreciation, respect and admiration. But also I think we both feel like, wow, this is the beginning of like a new relationship. And we know we're both positive minded people. Like, where is this going to go? Can only be but good things.

Totally, totally. But I have to add this one thing for context for people who didn't get to attend the event planner event, which was amazing. So right after you was Jamie Kern Lima, who is the billion dollar Woman. She's creator and founder, CEO of IT Cosmetics, sold to l'. Oreal. She's worth a billion dollars. I mean a billion dollar brand. I mean, huge, huge story. So I had never seen her speak either. I had followed her and I stayed after you spoke, right before her. She came on and I really found a new love for her in that she recognized what a great job you did. And not only did she recognize it when you handed the baton to her, but then she referenced it a few times on the fly. And that was so cool. And so I just, I have a whole new love for that lady.

Yeah, I mean, we've all been in green rooms and you've been around other speakers and you hear them and someone will say something about that speaker that they're coming up after and they come up next and they may mention something that the previous speaker said, but the way she did it was so just natural. Like I really was in awe that she was so attentive to what it was. I was actually trying to communicate and say that she felt compelled enough to share it. Like I DMed her after the event and said, oh, My gosh, I can't thank you enough. Not because you said these things, but just because you actually listened and you cared. And you're someone that I admire and respect so much for what you've built and what you've been able to break through and develop. The fact that you used some of my stuff in your session multiple times was just. I was just flattered and just, like, floored by it all, really. And then she hit me back and she was like, it was so worth it. You were killing it. Blah, blah. Now we have a little, like, relationship that's starting to build. So it's just amazing what that conference. And shout out to Erica and the whole team that put that conference together, because that is an incredible conference that they do.

It was so good.

All right, now to you. So as I've researched you and your energy, your positivity just comes through, bar none. I mean, it's so clear. But what I really love. Cause I am the ultimate underdog and love the underdog story. Is digging into your story and how the struggle was so real for you and your wife. You convincing your wife to leave her job, I mean, literally broke, like, showing the bank statements in red. I feel like I'm right there with you. I get it. But then to see, I can't believe truly, you went so all in and didn't lose your faith and leaned into your faith. And then when you got your show to finally take off and the weird way that you actually did it, I would just love for you to share with everyone how you made all this happen. It's crazy.

It really is. And this is why I feel like I really have lived through the experience of what it is I'm trying to teach or educate or help people navigate. And it makes it so much easier when you've actually gone through something that you've actually have as a lived experience. And many of us have lived experiences. The issue is whether or not we are willing to be vulnerable and transparent about those issues. Everybody's going to come to that level of courageousness in due time on their own. But I do think that vulnerability is the new currency. The more vulnerable that we can be as people, the more opportunity, opportunities start to come our way because we find that we are not on an island of one. So when we were out trying to, like, develop this show idea, before we even got to building our company, I had to convince my wife to leave her day job. I had just gotten laid off, and I had been a side hustler all my life. So I was already doing radio and little programs locally in the Baltimore market. Doing radio and tv. It's a process that I call from free to fee, where you actually offer yourself up to somebody else for free because of the value that you know you're going to get in exchange for that and let them take advantage of you because you know what you're getting out of that. So my example was I would call the TV stations in the local market, and I said, hey, I have this small radio show that's all about technology and teaching people how to use tech, and I really want to do it on tv. And I'd be willing to come on and do a weekly segment on the morning news for free. And they're like, wait, you would come on and talk about tech for like, two or three minutes, and we would. Then you do it every single week, and we won't pay you. I was like, yep, for free. And they're like, absolutely. So I got in the door, snuck in, and the reason why is because I wanted to learn live television. I wanted to know what it's like to have an earpiece in my ear and be getting commands from the control room. I wanted to know what it's like to get to a break in 30 seconds. How do I say a short. How do I take everything I want to say and make it succinct? All of these things were very important. How do I. Where do I look? How do I, you know, what do I do? And so I wanted to learn all of that. And so I used this process in so many other areas of my life to get the value that I need of what I will charge for later, the fee, but I'll do it now for free. So I was doing all this side hustling and all these things, building up this experience, building up this portfolio locally. And then I got laid off from my day job. So I would do all this stuff and then go to my day job. So I said to my wife, I said, hey, look, this is the time. Like, we got a Runway. I got, like a year's worth of savings based off the job. Like, we can make a. Let's make a run for it. And so she was like, no, I'm not doing this. Like, I'm a coo. This is the second startup I've been at. I like what I'm doing. So eventually, I coaxed her, because she is the brains of this operation. I'm the brand and the people, baby. But she is the brains. No doubt about it. She is CEO. Nicole and so when she came on board, she really helped me understand monetization formulas, the economics of what my hobby was, and how to really turn this into a business. And as we started building, we were like on our way. We were rolling and we had a contract with AOL at the time, $286,000. It was going to launch our company. We go and hire an attorney, we do our llc, we build it all up, we get everything done. And we did a pilot with AOL prior to. So we knew they loved the work. The day that we were doing a signing, they do signing parties for anything over 250 grand. You drive to Dulles, Virginia, and you have a signing party. We are literally on the road headed to the signing party. And I never thought that this would ever happen. But you know how this is probably gonna end. We get a phone call on the way there, and David says to me, the deal isn't gonna happen. And you're like, wait, what? It's like, dude, I emailed you like three days ago. I was wondering why you didn't call me. And he fessed up on the phone. He said, I couldn't muster up the courage to tell you that we had a new CEO that came in and everything is on freeze. And I'm like, dude, I got a five year old son. I just asked my wife. It's our son. I just asked my wife to leave her job. Because we just did like a 13 page contract that we bring. Like, we have it signed. Bringing it. What are you saying? Like, really, what does this mean? And I was just in shock. And so you're sitting on the side of the road and your jaw is just on the floor. And now I'm looking at my wife, who believed in me to take this leap. She's a Libra. This is a balance scales, okay? I'm Sagittarius. You can't make me out. Like, is he a horse?

Is he a man?

A bow and arrow? This guy is like fire. Like, take the risk, go. And so that was the quietest, most. I choke up right now because it just taking me back there mentally was such an emotional moment of realization. And I think we ended up asking the question, are we or are we not entrepreneurs? Can we do this or not? Because if we can't, let's just go back, let's get jobs. Like, we know we can do jobs well, so let's do that if that's what we really want to do. And then we had this Runway so that we were like, okay, we're going to go for it. We will try. It wasn't this easy. You know, the whole ride back, an hour and a half was probably quiet as hell. But like a day later, we like got out of that slumber and was like, okay, let's do this. And then the recession hit and so everything froze. So we had no money coming in. Brands weren't paying for anything, Nothing was happening. And now we're like running out of the money. The 401k is gone. Now you're into credit card debt and you're using this credit card to try to pay that credit card off. And it just got so bad that it got to the point that we ran out of money, ran out of Runway. And my mother in law was buying our groceries. And I was literally at that moment thinking, what the hell did I just do to my family? I will always say this story because it just. I remember sitting in the parking lot at Starbucks. Not because I could buy coffee, couldn't buy the coffee. I just needed to get out of the house and just let the tears roll because I was so ashamed of myself internally. And I was losing faith in myself. And it wasn't an ego thing. She's seen me be vulnerable before, but at that moment, I knew that we were both so sensitive. And we had a golden rule through this toughest time, that if one of us was down, the other one has to be up. And that's how we survived. So, like, if she woke up and she's like, today's a bad day. I'm really down. And it's like, well, damn it, today was my bad day. I'm really down. She's like, well, one of us has got to pick because one of us has got to snap out of it because both of us cannot be down at the same time. And so I just remember going to the Coin Star machine, and that's when I took a picture of our bank account. I screenshot it and I said, I want to remember. Other people have had lower lows. You know, we had a roof over our head. The mother in law was paying for groceries, but I was taking coins and putting them into the Coin Star machine to get gas money, to try to make it to any appointment that could get me anything to try to keep us hanging on. And through that, I think we really hit our lowest low. And it tested our relationship, it tested our parenting skills. It tested our ability to stay consistent and stay committed to this process and to this dream of creating content that could change people's lives and ultimately create a show that could maybe one day be something like as powerful as an Oprah Winfrey show, but in the Mario Armstrong style and way of delivering that. And that was the goal and the dream. And it just felt so far away.

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How long after that did you actually launch? Never settle.

Four and a half years.

Wow. Still, that's still a grind. That is still a big grind. That is not a short window.

Yeah, no, it took two and a half years just to get the credit back. To try to make money and make ends meet and figure out how we were gonna repay all the debt that we were accruing. And then you're out pitching and you're trying to make a pilot with your phone because you got. You don't have the money to spend on a pilot and you're. And then you're pitching these ideas and then you're trying to get agents and this long process of when you're creating content and you were trying to get it onto television at that time, that's a. You have a lot of gatekeepers in the process for that. For that. And so that was really rough.

I'll tell you.

I went down that road and it is so frustrating being told no by so many experts. Right. The people that know what they're talking about. But you're like, no, trust me, I know. And I love that you actually found a way, forged a way and really created your own way with bringing these sponsors in and these partners. I never thought of an idea like that. You know, it's so funny, Mario, I'm. My background is in media. That was my world. Sponsorship partnerships, I did that. I never thought to apply that to personal brand and being an entrepreneur. And I'm really. It was so innovative. I haven't seen that done other than what you two have built, which is you found a way to do it where other people weren't looking. How did you guys put those pieces together?

You know, it's a really great insight and I appreciate that and it's something that I'm really excited about. I'm actually developing a course and we have so many modules on this course coming out in 2021 to teach people how to get sponsorship for their brands and for their ideas. Because I think so many things can be sponsored and brands want to spend and want to align. And they need the exposure and they're looking for that alignment or that leadership authority. And so when we looking at our show, we were like, there's no way. We went to New York studios and we went and got our pricing and we found out that, oh, a show will rent the studio for a week, shoot multiple shows every day and try to get their season done as fast as possible. So if you're a short run show, maybe you're doing 20 episodes, then maybe you just rent for two weeks, shoot two to three episodes a day for four days a week, and next thing you know you're gonna have like, you know, 12 or 20 episodes, but that cost $300,000 for a week. Like, there was no way. There was just no way. So then I said, okay, this is never gonna work. So then I started saying, all right, there are tech companies in New York that have lobbies. Can we shoot this show in a lobby? Can we do it in an event space? I really didn't wanna do that. Cause that means we gotta bring in equipment and studio and all this other stuff. But I was like, that's the only thing I could think of. And so I started calling around, I called Gary's place and I was like, yo, Gary, can we do this show? And he loved the idea of having a show. Like, he would love that, but he was growing too fast and the space that he had wasn't going to be available six months later. So I was like, damn, that won't work. So then I started calling some other companies, found this company called Canary, which has like security devices. And they had this huge lobby. And I said, hey, can we use your lobby once a week in the evenings outside of your work hours? And in exchange for doing it for four hours in there, in your space, break up and set up and break down and do the show within a four hour window. We'll advertise your product in the show. And they were like, yes, absolutely. So next thing I know, we're now assembling a team of people that are actually working in a broom closet as a control room. Like, literally, the pictures of this are laughable. There's a bucket with a mop in it and there's like electronic equipment and a couple of screens. And that's where the producer and the director and the other people are working. And then we have cameras that are out on the showroom floor. We had 10, like metal chairs for people, like the folding, cheap metal chairs that people would sit in. And it was the Most beautiful experience. That was the ugliest thing ever. And we launched and we went to sponsorships, we went to brands to say, hey, we're doing this show. Would you be willing to support, you know, this idea? Here's where the alignment is, here's where we think the exposure for you can be great. And here's how we can integrate your content in an authentic way into our programming. And so FedEx office saw the opportunity, and thankfully, after months of going back and forth, they said yes. And they got us about 80% of the budget there. And then we put the rest of that on credit cards again. We went back into debt again to finance six episodes. That's it, Six weeks. And we did it. And what's really crazy about that is here's when you know you have something good is when you go against all the odds and when the odds are against you, but you still believe in it so strongly enough that when you start to communicate what your vision is and what your dream is, that other people just actually want to help see you actually get it done. So many people don't talk about what it is you're working on because you want to wait for it to be perfect for them to talk about it. And you're missing all the people that can help you actually get it to that point by talking about what it is you're trying to actually do. And I found that if we kept documenting what we were trying to build, we were getting more people to get excited about, can he actually do it? Will the team happen? How can I contribute to see this thing work? And it happened so organically. And it's the weirdest thing. We haven't won an Emmy on the last two seasons, but we won an Emmy for the very first season, the one that was shot in a lobby with the Janitor's Closet with six episodes. And that's what this one's for.

That's amazing. With having been told no by all of the experts and having to film in a lobby and having to find sponsors and shooting on your phone, documenting it to show that validation that this was. I mean, that had to be a pivotal moment for you guys.

It was. And you know what? You know, here's the thing that I've learned along the way. I was on the Today show, by the way. So I was on the Today show, and for me, I was known as a tech expert at that time, and my job and role was to really educate people on entrepreneur issues, but also technology things and to make it understandable to the Masses. So I was already doing regular Today show hits. So I'm going to my NBC people that love to put me on air, by the way, paying me to be on air. And they're like, no, this idea is not going to work. Nobody wants positivity right now. Like no one Oprah. The literally people were telling me the Oprah days are over. And this is when you have to really have resolve with yourself and understanding. Here's the difference. I say there are two types of no's. There are the nos that you get where it's consistent, it's the wrong time, it's the wrong time, it's the wrong time. Or someone says it's too expensive, it's too expensive, it's too expensive. When you get the consistent no's, it's possible that you actually need to tweak what you're actually trying to deliver or what's your pitch. It's possible that you really do need to pay attention. Did you out price yourself? Are you really above the market? Like, what's really going on here? But when you get a different no's, wrong time, not the message for us seems a little expensive. Oh, I wish it had these other features that just tells you that you're still fact finding and pulling stuff to help inform you. But it doesn't mean that your idea is a bad idea and that it needs to be completely trapped. It just means that you haven't hit the right person yet that matches up with your idea. And so I was feeling like we were getting the same no, these different no's all the time. And I said, oh, okay. And for every no, by the way, you have to ask three whys. I'd be like, well, why is it not a good time for this? And he'd be like, well, you know, we got this budget for this quarter. Oh. So if I come back at that quarter, will this be more applicable to them? Like, I would always dig at least three layers to find out the real objection. And I think that really helped when you're dealing with sponsors or anybody that's going to help greenlight something for you. And so I was really kind of, I guess adept at that and navigated that process, but was getting tremendous no's. I mean, to the point where I was actually on camera crying and it's like, come on, dude, really? And I was like, yes. I wanted people to know the pain. Like it's not fair if I actually get a show or I actually make this thing work. And all you heard was me talking about it in January and now you see it happening in November. That is not fair. My family, they. Heather, I got calls from my uncle and my dad and they were just like, can you, can you like, not be. Can. What are you doing? Like, why are you. You know what I'm saying? I'm in tears. Like, it should. Shouldn't be this hard. It's a good positive show. I have the right intentionality. I'm trying something good. It shouldn't be this hard. And I'm really frustrated and tired and exhausted. And they're like, can you not show that? Like, people need to see you be successful? And I'm like, ah, you guys don't get it. I'm like, you guys gonna have to ride this one out. Cause I'm not changing me, bro.

And thank goodness you didn't. Thank goodness you didn't. So how did you. You ultimately attract Al Roker into this picture? How did that happen?

Because you have to start looking at the people that are in your peripheral. You have to start paying attention to the 6 degrees, 3 degrees of separation. And I wrote a letter. I wrote the letter to Matt. I wrote the letter to Al, and Al read the letter, so did Matt. But Al read the letter and Al was like, let's meet. So I handed him this envelope one day at the Today show. Basically, I handed him this envelope. And in that envelope I did this other trick that I do that's called the three asks. I do a formula that whenever you're going to pitch something to someone big, you don't make it a little thing. In other words, don't just do it in the hallway. Don't just halfway pitch your big thing. Don't do that. Don't belittle the value of your big thing. So I write it up in a letter and I do a small ask, a medium ask, and then my dream ask. So I'm increasing my odds of trying to get a simple yes on something. So this could be as simple as, can I get 15 minute phone call with you? Then the second ask or the higher ask could be, can I take you out to lunch? And then the third ask, can I job shadow you for the day? You know, so like, you're low medium and dream ask. And two out of the three he said yes to. So I was like, okay. So I met with him and his team, and it just so happened that he was very interested in creating and producing content for live streaming. So Facebook Live was coming out, Periscope had already been out. And so a lot of Live streaming. And Al was building a live streaming network at the time. And so he thought that maybe we would be a great fit if we could figure out some of the details. And without him and without his team, without Al Roker Entertainment, we wouldn't have been able to pull it off. And it wasn't because he gave us money. He just gave us resources. He said, hey, let me introduce you to the people that run my business and meet with them and see what can happen. But at that point, we had the Al Roker name that we could now use as leverage. So one other thing that I did, and I encourage all of you to do this is I said to Al, could you be kind enough? And I tried to make this easy. Could you be kind enough to record a voice message on your phone? I'm gonna write a little script, and could you record this and then just send it to me? And the script was basically what we call in media a donut. And a donut is like, you have the same intro and the same outro, but you change the middle. So what I wanted him to say was, hey, this is Al Roker. I'm so glad that you're talking with Mario Armstrong in the Never Settle show. We really believe in this show and what he's putting together. And we would love to. And then here's the middle part. And we would love to have FedEx office be a part of this. I'm Al Roker. Thank you so much for your time. And that's the ending. And then I would have him read that once. But then I would have him say, and we would love for WIX to be a part of this, and we would love for Cadillac to be a part of this, and we would love for FedEx office to be a part of. So I named all these brands that I was going to go out and pitch so that I could then send them this message. And look, I got Al Roker to send a message like, he really is into this show, and he's gonna help with this show. And so I think all of those things together really helped convince some sponsors that, you know, this kid's not going away. This kid seems to be really serious, and he's got some people that are really involved for this process and for this show. And that's how we were able to get some brands on board.

That's so smart from the credibility standpoint, the personalization standpoint, the effectiveness, the differentiation. Right? Like, how can you own a space no one else is owning? No one's out doing that no one's taking the time to go do that. Like, how can you separate yourself from everybody else out there? And I will tell you this, Mario, and you know it. There no other host of a show were walking into Cadillac and making that pitch wasn't happening.

And that's a difference.

It's a difference maker, though. It really shows the commitment and just how unique. And that's instead of finding reasons to stop, you found new ways to forge forward. And that's what. What's so incredible about your story and inspirational, in my opinion, because it reminds all of us that we're the only ones saying, oh, no. All the networks told me, no, I've got to just back down with this idea. No, how can I reimagine, how can I rethink how this could look with me taking a new initiative, a new angle or a new direction? And that's really promising.

It is. And I think part of what helps that if there's something else that I could share with people that could be helpful, is pilot more often. And so what I mean by that is if you pilot more often, instead of putting all of your energy to try to get to the actual end result of the product, pilot more of. We do this philosophy around here in our company where we put out tests of so many different things, often to try and see what reaction we get, what's the data that comes back, what do the analytics say? And all of that helps to inform the bigger move. But what also happens is that people actually see that. They actually see certain things that are happening or they don't necessarily know we're trying. We're not saying, hey, these are all pilots. We're just putting things out there. And internally we're calling them pilots for the bigger vision. And so I think going through that process enabled us to find a community of people that was connect to the content that we were creating. Even though we weren't completely sure as to what the end content was going to be, we knew what kind of realm or what kind of category or what kind of space we wanted to be in. So we would consistently try new things or new angles in that space. And I think that's really helped us to now get to this version of the Never Settle show. I mean, where we are now with the Never Settle show. Here's why I say that we did the show in someone else's lobby. And the lobby was beautiful, but it was still six episodes because we did that. We were so exhausted at the end of that. We took that entire summer and was just like, we were so drained. And then we were like, okay, what are we gonna do with season two? We still can't afford $300,000 for a studio. The other space was like, hey, that was fun. But we don't really know if they wanna do this again. Before we could even call them and find out, we get a phone call. I saw your show that you did on Facebook, and we are doing some stuff with Facebook and we would like to see if you would want to bring your show over here. That phone call was Times Square, nasdaq.

That's crazy.

Now here's the thing. The woman, another powerful woman in that role. The woman that was there. Ann remembered me from when I was doing stuff on HLN and CNN years prior. And I always treated everybody with respect and I always treated everybody as kind as I could. Like, I was the guy that would. Even when I was doing stuff for free, I would bring the control room Dunkin Donuts. Like, I'd bring him a dozen donuts. And that just became my thing. And it was just like, why? And it's just because they're letting me get some value that I need to get. And they're helping me, even if they don't know that they're helping me. And plus, they're here at 3:00 in the morning, so I know they're probably hungry as hell. So let's get them some food. And she remembered me, Anna Gonzalez. She's at Google now. And she called and I was completely floored. This studio is on the ground floor. It's right next door to Good Morning America. It's got 50 foot windows. You can see right into our production. The video wall behind us is massive. We could put brands and logos and all this stuff. I went literally from being like in a cardboard situation to like going to like high end Netflix overnight.

It was.

So what's important? The important thing to me, that takeaway, is that you didn't know that call was coming. You just kept going.

Yes. And that's why I'm like, if we would have waited to get to that type of point, we would have never have gotten there. And this is why I really want people to understand that perfectionism doesn't really exist, y'.

All.

Like, we aren't even perfect humans. And so we're. If we can accept that we're not perfect and that we're constantly evolving and we're trying to develop and work on ourselves, then so can our ideas. So don't let perfectionism really hold you Back. You know, I feel like fear of embarrassment, fear of risk, fear of it failing. All these things that really I feel hold people back because fear is fake in the sense that if you launch something, you won't die if it doesn't work out. But we still operate based off of that very early brain of we will die if we step out of this cave and we don't look around and see if we're clear from a dinosaur. But we treat our ideas just like, if I come out of that cave, I'm going to get eaten up by the world if I don't launch this thing perfectly. And the truth is, and maybe you can even attest to this in your success and in your career. The truth that I've found with myself, but also very successful people that I've been exposed to is the one rule they don't want us to all know, and that is they're all making it up as they go along.

This is my favorite quote, and I don't even know who said it initially, but successful people don't know the how, but they bet on themselves to figure it out along the way. Exactly what you're saying, that's great. We're just keep. We keep moving forward, even though we don't see the staircase in front of us, just knowing it will start appearing. We'll start figuring out where to put our foot and that. And you're right, no one taught us that as kids, right? In corporate America, people didn't talk like that. No one talked like that. That would be embarrassing if you said that, right. It was more, this is the linear path.

And.

And if you want to succeed, walk exactly here where it's well lit. And that's right. I think that was hard for me to make that transition from what I thought was true to now, what I'm living and what you're sharing with everyone right now. And I constantly remind myself that I was at a very successful man's house this week for a meeting. And at the end I asked him, I said, please tell me the one thing that you want, anyone and everyone coming up behind you. Because I'm way coming up behind him. He's already there. I said, what is it? He said, heather, it's that I haven't known any of this, what I'm doing. I just keep betting on me to figure it out. And I eventually do. And it's that same message. And you're right, no one is screaming that. So people know this. If you don't know, we're all right there with you because I don't know, we don't know, but we are gonna keep rolling that fricking dice.

And this is why it's so important to, like, be willing to accept the purpose that is calling for you. People like, hear what I'm saying. Break this down for just a second. Be willing to accept the purpose that's calling for you. Very often we have an idea or a vision or maybe even worse, an attachment to a certain thing happening a certain way. And now we're not being open to allow other ways to accomplish that same goal, but maybe through a different path. And there are moments where the blinders are necessary, but there are moments when we have to take those blinders off, look around, let the world come in, inform us, give us some inspiration, maybe give us a little validation or whatever that may be, and then put the blinders back on. When you only live in blinders, you really do miss out on the possibilities of how wide or how possible your thing can be. Both of us know many people that came to wanting to do something and it got bigger than they could have ever imagined it would actually be. And all they wanted to do was reach certain point and where they are is completely like eons beyond that certain point. And so what I'm saying is that I really want people to pay attention to what comes to them naturally. Often we don't accept the purpose that's calling for you because maybe it comes to us too easy. So therefore we think we didn't work as hard.

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Or we, we don't see that value or we don't realize that other people value it because to us it's just this normal thing.

That's it, Heather. That's it. That's exactly it. Thank you for succinctly putting it. That's exactly it. So I challenge people often like two columns, sheet of paper, get out the pen and pad. Here you go. Number one, you write down everything that you think you're good or great at on the left hand side of the sheet of paper. And if you're not in a good head space right now because you got some inner critic going on or some self doubt, then you're not going to be the most objective and treat yourself well. So then ask your family, ask peers, ask your friends and you will be surprised at what they think that you're actually great at. That you will be like, wait, what? And you're going to write all these things down and then on the other side of that paper, on the other column, you're going to now write down, you're writing down all the things you're great at and then you're going to write down all the products or ideas or things that you want to develop. It could be a podcast, it could be a show, it could be a hair salon, it could be a social media agency, like whatever these things are. And then what you do is you look for the center. You're looking for that concentric moment where you can find commonalities. So you love yoga, but you haven't done a fitness course because yoga wasn't really. You're not like a yoga trainer right now. Love yoga. You're great at yoga, but for whatever reason, you're still working in your corporate gig and yoga is just like your little side fun thing. But everybody tells you you're great at yoga and then you've written down on this sheet of paper that you wanted to launch a podcast about health and wellness or you realize that you would like to create a course or some sort or fitness app or something, you start to see these things tangibly and then it starts to make connections for you. And then I think it gets a little bit easier to, to answer the purpose that's actually trying to knock on your door.

Well, guys, do that exercise. You are so on point, Mario. And to the point of podcast, where can everyone find your podcast?

Oh wait, thank you for asking. Wake up and level up is my Podcast. So would love for anybody to come and check it out. It's and our podcast is really contextual. It's meant for you to take it in the morning. Like vitamins. It is five minutes or less every single day with a message and inspiration, but also tactical advice that you can use throughout the day. So wake up and level up as the podcast.

And for anyone that's on Insta following you like I'm following you. What's your handle on Insta?

Ario Armstrong and I do so much stuff there and I mentor for free in the dm. So if you have any questions or would run a reach out, I will actually respond. But we do everything. We do reels. I have a coach character that just came out. Talk about pilot. I don't know if you've seen this coach.

I haven't seen it yet.

I actually have custom football jersey made.

I love it.

I have a clipboard, I have a stopwatch, I have a whistle. I have a baseball cap. Like I go into full on coach mode. And it's just for Instagram reels. So coach Mario is a different character than this Mario. He's actually more animated than this Mario is.

I don't know how that's possible, but I know the message is gonna be the same. Never settle. And Mario, thank you so much for shining your light and spreading it with all of us and bring your positivity. We need it so much right now. It means the world to me that you are here today.

It's been such a pleasure and an honor. You're an incredible interviewer. I love being on here. The research that you did and just the. Really? Honestly, Heather, just the. I'm just in gratitude for the fact you've had some amazing guests consistently on this show.

You're one of them, my friend. That's where you are. You are.

And I appreciate that. But I. But I'm humble and I just. I am so thankful for you to give me a shot. So thank you so much.

All right, hang tight. We're going to be right back.

I asked you to try to find your passion. Hi and welcome back. I have a bunch of topics to cover right now. Okay, so I got a number of questions from you and your peeps this week and want to jump in right away. So. Hey, Heather, I swear, you are in my head. I'm on a mission to seek a new career and change my trajectory. I've made outreach to media people this week asking for advice. Seconds ago, I see your post about stop asking people directions when they haven't been where you're attempting to go. It's what I always do. It's as if I want others to tell me what I should be doing instead of seeking that answer for myself. It's a hesitation that I believe must be rooted in lack of confidence. Thank you for your help. I've got to figure this out. So here's the thing. You know, you just need to make the decision. And I used to do the same thing. I. I would look outside of me for the answer when the answer will always be inside of you. So you just need to get clear on that. And I guess when you look outside of yourself for the answer, it's almost as if, if you would have someone else to blame if it didn't work out. And maybe it's scary, the idea that, okay, I'm going to follow my intuition and then if I'm wrong, who do I get mad at, right? So that might be one of the ways that we self sabotage. But here's the thing. You will have the right answer if you look within yourself and trust yourself. Stop looking outside and don't look to people who haven't been where you you are going. That is so key. I'll never forget when I launched my personal brand four years ago. I was a chief revenue officer in media. The company I worked for hated my brand. They told me that I was trying to be bigger than the company. I wasn't. However, I did end up being bigger than the company. Peace out, people. But here's the thing. I wasn't trying to do that. I was trying to do good and shine my light. And you know what I'll never forget, I went to dinner with a bunch of my friends when this was all going on and it was crazy. I was venting to everyone about it. I said, you know, I can't believe I do so well at my job. And they're not appreciating me and they're threatening me. I think they could fire me. I don't know what I'm gonna do. And every one of my friends for the most part, said, you need to quit that personal brand. Shut it down. What's wrong with you? Why would you even hesitate, Heather? And then I'd go home and I'd cry and I'd say to myself, no, that's not my right answer. That's wrong. The right answer is to do the right thing and stick by my beliefs. I'm not trying to hurt anyone. I do a great job in my quote unquote job. And this isn't hurting it. And I, through some very difficult times, stuck with that personal brand which is still here today. Make that investment in yourself if you haven't done it yet. I'm so grateful I did and I'm also grateful I didn't back down because I'm super proud of myself. But I could have listened to people who wanted the best for me. They were giving me their self limiting beliefs and I didn't accept their self limiting beliefs. I went home, cried my eyes out and got real with my beliefs and connected to why I was doing it and that commitment that I was doing it for good and that I wasn't going to back off for anyone. So always check in with yourself, forget about others. Unless, you know, it's sort of like when I met with Gary Vee. He gave me great advice on building my personal brand. Yes, I will take advice from him. He's years ahead of me. He's where I'm attempting to go. So when you get the opportunity to get feedback from someone like that, you might want to consider taking it, but just doesn't happen all that often. Okay, here's another one. Hey Heather, thought I'd send you a note. Love your style, et cetera, et cetera. I've noticed. Oh, this person. Okay, this is so interesting. I remember what this was. I had put a post up this week about some woman saying something negative about me. Now I will tell you, and if you want to learn more about LinkedIn, I am launching my first ever LinkedIn class to help people. Cause I get so many messages about how to improve on LinkedIn. Here's the thing, one of the things that I'm noticing is, is any type of controversial posts are doing exceptionally well this year. So anytime a hater comes at me with something interesting or different, I post about it. And those posts are killing it. So that's to give you a little color behind the scenes here. Okay, so this person saying to me, why are you posting about that? You know, you don't need to, I support you, blah, blah, blah. I did tell her, I said, listen, I'm posting about it because it's strategic. Hello. Okay. Then she goes on to say, I get criticized too. I was recently having a conversation with a male customer who proceeded to ask me about my LinkedIn style. I explained that I'm new to LinkedIn and just trying to promote myself and my products and good for you, by the way. That's a side note. He took this opportunity to tell me that I looked like I was single and trying to get a date. Why did I need to post so many pictures of myself? Okay, let's stop right there.

There.

First of all, who is this person? He sounds incredibly jealous. That that's what I like. The first thing that pops in my mind is he's jealous or threatened. Who knows? But not. This is. Again, this is not someone we want to take advice from. He's not where we want to be. Right. This isn't the Gary V. Of your world, I'm sure. Why did this customer give me this negative feedback? This customer barely gave me any business or an opportunity to do business business with him, nor does he support me online. He doesn't like or comment on my stuff. Yet his comments stung. Because I'm green. I'm new on LinkedIn and I'm not confident in my virtual presence. I know I am not where I need to go, but I do know I am learning every day. My first reflex was to defend myself. But because I'm new to LinkedIn, I am even newer to promoting myself and promoting my product products. 20 years in this game and I am learning new tricks. After much thought, I took that pause, I took his jab and started looking at how other professionals promote themselves. I like your style. So here's the thing. Number one, if you like my style, emulate it, right? Like, just get out there and try things, test things. I copy a lot of Gary Vaynerchuk stuff. You know, Natalie from Boss Babe has this whole course which is basically, basically in Boss Babe is this really strong Instagram brand which, with 2 million plus followers. And I had her on my podcast and she was telling me, listen, you need to identify your number one competitors and essentially reinvent what's working for them. Reinvent it for you. So feel free to test if you like the way a post looks that I put up. Reinvent it for you, try it for you, right? Until you get some momentum and get started. That's a great course of action to keep you in the game. And here's the thing. Who is this negative Nelly customer guy again? I want to just go back to it. Sounds like he's insecure, sounds like he's jealous, sounds like he's got his own issues. Keep it moving, brother. Not interested in what you have to say. And did I even ask for your feedback or opinion? I don't think so. And by the way, my old boss used to say this to me. If that person wants to speak to you, wants to sit down and have meaningful conversations, they need to spend money with you. So if this guy is not a big client or paying you a lot of money and it doesn't sound like he is, then keep it moving. All right, so next. This is a good one. Hey, heather. I'm a 48 year old woman who had been, I'm not going to say what industry because I don't want to call anyone out, but I've been in a working in a toxic environment over the years and I have remained loyal and hardworking. No. During COVID I worked 83, six days straight only to have my position eliminated. Oh, my gosh. I listen to your podcast. Your energy is great. Thank you. I just don't know what I can do now. How can I bring it to the next level? I'm feeling depressed and scared as my family relies on me financially. Oh, my God, I want to cry. I went on eight to 10 interviews and no one is willing to pay me my worth. The jobs are limited. What should I do? Okay, so a few things. Number one, I so feel you. When I got fired, I was 43 and I am the sole provider for me and my son. It is a horrible feeling. And for anyone that's listening right now that is not in that situation or is not, I can't even explain it. It's the scariest thing in the world when you don't know how you're going to pay your bills and take care of your family. It's a horrible feeling. So I have such extreme empathy for you. I really feel, feel for you right now. Number one, you need to ask for help. So I'm glad that you reached out to me and feel free to reach out to other important people in your life, friends, family, ask for help. That's a big part of what I did. When I got fired, I asked everybody for help. I went online and posted. I need help. Right? We don't have the solution readily in front of us, but we do have a challenge. And we need to find a way to cross over and create a bridge, you know, to find the solution. And you may find it in your network, you might find it through your friends and family, but reach out to them, Ask for help. And again, thank you for reaching out to me. I'm so glad that you did. I hope I can provide you some help. And also know this things aren't going to stay the way that they are right now forever. We're living in a freaking global pandemic. You know, the economy's a disaster. The political world we live in is a disaster. Everything is just, just it's a really difficult time. It's not going to stay like that. Things will get better. If you are feeling depressed, I truly suggest you speak to a professional. And I know that's hard because you're worried about money, but until you get your head right, until you start sleeping well and get calm, it's going to be even harder to find a solution. Think about this. The more stressed out you are, the less creativity you have, the less peace you have, the less solution finding ability you have. Right? And I know this firsthand. It reminds me of when I was a lifeguard when I was a kid. One of the things that they would teach you is in that moment that someone starts drowning, the most important thing you can do is get centered and breathe. Now that sounds counterintuitive. You would think I should start racing to get the person. The point is you need to be calm, thinking, level headed and get clear on what's happening in front of you. Survey the landscape. Right, because if a shark's coming for someone, you're going to get eaten too. That's a terrible analogy. But you get my point. You need to see the entire environment and then take action. Making a good decision, a well informed decision versus when I first got fired, you know, I was not thinking level headed. I can remember people calling me, wanting to encourage me and I just wanted to yell at them. I was angry, I couldn't sleep. You know, the nerves, the anxiety was terrible. Now fast forward. As time went on, things got better. I became more centered, I started getting more clarity. I didn't necessarily know how things were going to play out, I definitely didn't know that. But the more calm and at peace I was able to become, and a lot of that for me, me is through working out. You know, after I work out or when I'm working out, my best ideas come to me. So for you, maybe it's meditation. For you, maybe it's prayer. For you, maybe it's getting a good night's sleep, I don't know, maybe it's tapping. That's eft. Tapping is a great way to release anxiety. Maybe you need to go on medication, maybe you need to see a doctor, I don't know. But take the necessary steps to figure those things out. Because the sooner you can can get calm and survey the environment, the sooner you're going to be able to come up with a solution. Okay, back to your issue. So you've gone on eight to 10 interviews. Well, that's not enough, right? If you've gone on eight to 10 interviews and no one is willing to pay you your worth. Couple things. One, you're either not conveying it properly, you either don't really believe in your worth, which may be the case if you've been in a toxic environment environment for a while, or you're not conveying your worth. Right. Interviewing is sales. First of all, everything is sales. So let's just get straight to the point here and not get it twisted. We are all in sales. No matter what you do for a living, if you're going on an interview, you're selling yourself. So what I would do is I would focus on how am I positioning myself, what problem am I solving for this potential employer? Why should they want me? What's my unique value proposition? What do I offer that's unique, special and different? And first and foremost, do I really believe I'm worthy? Do I believe I'm worth X amount of dollars?

Right.

Get clear and get real with yourself there and get committed to this idea that you are worth whatever that is and then ask for it with confidence and conviction. Go to these people on the interview. Let them know the problem that you're going to solve for them. Let them know why you. Let them know what your unique value proposition is. U V P that white space. Own it, rock it. And let them know why you're different. Find a connection point. Figure out on social media who these people are that you're interviewing with. Find out about the company culture. Do your homework. Write down stories and examples of where you have set yourself apart at different working environments. Reach out to people for testimonials of your work and share that feedback with these new potential employers. And eight to ten interviews isn't enough. If you're not getting the answers you want first do more. Work on how you're doing it. Role play an interview with someone that you care about that will give you positive and honest feedback. And invest in yourself and make sure you're believing your worth before you step into the interview and then up the number of interviews. Just because people say that jobs are limited, who are those people? It isn't about the 8 to 10 nos you get, it's about the one. Yes. Don't forget I just very recently pitched my agent for my book. 14 times she told me no. It was the 15th time. She told me yes. So keep pushing yourself to get better. Keep investing in yourself and figuring out, hey, what's unique and different about me? Why would an employer want me on their team? I can tell you right now, my pitch is so flipping strong. When I go into an interview, it's crazy. My whole goal is just getting the interview these days for my speaking engagements. Get on zoom with me, people, because I will close you. I want you going with that same conviction into your next interview. And the way you have that conviction is you put the time and practice and do the work. The more you do the work, the more confident you're going to feel. And this is a numbers game. Don't forget, 14 times I was told no. The 15th, I was told, yes. You've only been on eight to 10 interviews. Take that number up to 20. But first, put the work and time into you. It will pay dividends. Okay. I was working with one of my clients this week. I wanted to share it with you guys. A lot of people are saying, hey, you know, the COVID has got everyone down, and it's the worst year of our life. Life. Okay, Yeah, I totally feel you there. I'm right there with you. Seriously, struggle some days more than others just like you. But my point is, is that because of that outside pressure, a lot of sales leaders I'm hearing from, and one of them I work directly with are saying to me, hey, I don't want to be tough on my team. I want to give them some, you know, freedom, or I want to support them and not not, you know, be too tough on them in the holiday season. No.

What?

No. No, no, no. Okay, pump the brakes. Here we go. So sales works through a number of different ways, and the most basic way to share it with you is you can take the carrot or the stick approach. I believe in both approaches. The carrot would be incentives, encouragement, recognizing people who are stepping up and winning, celebrating wins as a team. Right. That's super positive and very encouraging. Needs to be done daily, weekly, and monthly. Okay, so if you don't have those strategies in place, put them in place now. The carrot approach is critical to success in leadership and in any sales team. Now, so is the stick. Right? So it's the carrot in the stick. The stick is really holding people accountable. The best way to hold teams accountable is to operate with trust, transparency. You need to post numbers. So I was speaking to this client of mine this week, and I said, listen, are you going to hit your goals for 2020 for Q4? And she said, no, I don't think we are. I said, what do you mean you don't think? You need to know your numbers inside and out. And if you as a sales leader don't know your numbers, your team doesn't either. So guess why you're not hitting your numbers, nobody knows what they are. So get crystal clear on what those numbers and that vision is. Hold your team accountable to the commitments they make to you when they struggle or they're falling behind and you're applauding and recognizing the part of the team that's winning, but you're still posting the numbers for everyone. Reach out to the people struggling and say, hey, let's jump on a quick one on one. Let's talk about your pipeline. Let's talk about what you have out there and how I can best support you. Where are you struggling? You know, you may find out that they're going to say, oh, I got to be honest with you. I haven't been making the calls. I've been lazy. Well, you know what? Lazy is over. It's time for activity. Can I count on you to follow through on the commitment you made to me and to this team? Because honestly, if you don't want to make that commitment, the one that you gave me a month, two months, a year ago, then I need to start looking for someone else to fill the shoes and to take this seat. So here's the thing. You're not being mean by being transparent parent. You're helping people to succeed or go find another opportunity out there in the world that's better fit for them. But if you are on a sales team, you need to deliver and you need to hold your team accountable and you need to operate with transparency. Okay, then one other woman that I work with, she sent me an email last night. She had a client or slash potential client, wanted to hire her for terrible money that was not going to work for the amount of expertise that she was trying to access. And the woman was trying to bully her in some regards and to guilt her. Oh, you better take this. You need to take this for me. I said one thing and I want to share this with you. Number one, it is always okay to say no. Doesn't matter if you like the client. Don't like the client, doesn't matter. You do an evaluation of the opportunity and you say, wow, the amount of work, the grief to growth ratio, it's either there or it's not. Meaning if it's a ton of work for a little bit of money. Money not a good business decision. If it's less work for a lot of money, suddenly much better one. So you counter and you go back to the client and say, I, if I were to take this product on, it would be X amount of dollars. No, you know, that's not going to work for us.

Great.

I completely understand. I hope there's opportunity for us to work together in the future. That's it. You don't need to get emotional. You don't need to feel bad. You just say, that's not going to work for me. But I hope we get the chance to to work together in the future. Best of luck with this. Moving on. So no is a complete sentence. No does not have to include emotion, and it also doesn't have to include explanation. So I'm leaving it at that for right now. I hope that you enjoyed the show this week. If you did, if you could please leave a review of the podcast, I would so greatly appreciate. It means the world. And if you share and post on social, just tag me. I will always, always repost and reshare your comments and your tags. So thank you so, so much. Until next week, let's keep creating confidence. You know I will be. I decided to change that dynamic. I couldn't be more excited for what you're gonna hear. Start learning and growing. Inevitably something will happen.

No one succeeds alone.

You don't stop and look around once in a while. You could miss it.

Come on this journey with me.