Confidence Classic: Lead With Empathy, Strength & Purpose with Dalia Feldheim

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No such thing as a masculine brain or a feminine brain. We all have masculine leadership traits and feminine leadership traits. The issue is that the business world has collapsed into wounded masculine power over people versus power with people. So we feel like we either need to behave like that or we sink into our wounded feminine being defensive, et cetera. And I think what I'm provoking is for all leaders to connect to those more historically feminine traits like empathy, intuition, teamwork in order to balance out the world and to humanize the workplace.

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Much as I do. I'm so glad you're back here with me this week. Get ready for some excitement. Today we've got Dalia Feldheim, founder of Flow Leadership Consultancy. She's drawing on her own extensive corporate leadership experience and passion for championing others to enable organizations to promote an authentic, happy and psychologically safe working culture. Imagine that. Before founding Flow Leadership, Dalia spent over two decades as a C Suite Global Marketing exec at Procter and Gamble, where she led work on some of the world's most iconic ad campaigns, two of them being Tampax, Mother Nature, and the iconic Always Like a Girl ranked Forbes Most influential Campaign of the Decade. That's incredible. Dalia holds an executive Master's degree in Consulting and Coaching for Change from INSAID Business School Organizational Psychology, along with a Happiness Facilitator diploma from the Happiness Studies Academy in partnership with Miami University. She's on a mission to share her insights and learning, success and struggles to help shape the new generation of leaders. She teaches the science of happiness and resilience and she's an adjunct professor. She's so much more. Dalia, thank you so much for being here today.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm super, super happy being here. Thank you.

Oh, it's so exciting. Oh, my gosh. So you know the work that you're doing as we were talking about offline, very similar. Our backgrounds are similar and different. But listen, I don't have some of these iconic corporate America moments like you do. I want to dig into just from a curiosity perspective. I mean, the. Like a girl. I mean, where did this all come from? What was that like being involved in this? It sounds to me so massive.

So I started my career at Procter Gamble, and very early on, I kind of started on femcare Feminine care. So pad stamp ons. And I'll tell you, I think it was six months into the role that I realized I'm not in the business of selling pads. I'm in the business of women empowerment. And, you know, it was really a magical moment. I can tell you a little bit about it. I mean, we were in India and we were doing in home visits, and I walk in to talk with the mom and the daughter, and the daughter's sitting on the floor. The mom comes in with drinks, and then she kind of offers the daughter on the floor in like metal plates. And throughout the whole interview, she was sitting on the floor. Aunts and uncles came in, and for a moment, I noticed this sad look on her face. And, you know, when we went out, I'm like, what was that all about? And my agency told me, well, she's on her period. And I'm like, so what? And she said, well, in India, we have all this myths about periods. We believe women are impure, so they're not allowed to sit with us or go into the kitchen or go to prayer areas. And in most cases, they sit or sleep on the floor. And yeah, you're going like that. And I kind of, how common is that? And she said, whoa, you know, it's quite common. And then she kind of jokingly said, you know, we even believe a woman on a period, if she touches pickles, she'll make them go sour. And I can tell you, Heather, that Night, I couldn't sleep. I just had the girl's sad look on the face. And I went to the agency the next morning. I'm like, I couldn't sleep. She said, yeah, me too. I'm like, we need to do something about it, right? We need to use the brand voice to make an impact, you know, to make a difference. So basically we, you know, I said, I'm a foreigner, and this is cultural, so I'll leave it with you. And we worked through 12 months, and then we came out with a campaign called I Dared I Touched the Pickle. So it was like using humor to bring about the issue. That became the most viral ad of the year in India in 2014. Ted talks about it, et cetera. And that was the moment. And I'm very proud of a lot of things, but that was the moment that, wow, we can make a big difference. And then a year later, we decided to do the same on a global level, and we changed the brief. And it's actually my president who said, you know, she was telling the story of how a daughter was about to play basketball, and she said, mom, I can't. I'm on my period. And she says, you go out there and you play like a girl. And the agency loved it so much, and they created the iconic Always like a girl. And I always say I can't take credit for it because it's the agency who created it. I guess, you know, our brief inspired that. But when I saw it that, I was like, wow, this is what I've been working for for 15 years. And the campaign went on to, you know, change lives and really reclaim that phrase like a girl to mean be proud to be who you are. Right? Because, you know, when we ask a young girl what it means to run like a girl, she says, what do you mean? It means run as fast as you can, and suddenly in socialization, it becomes an insult. So, you know, that's what we wanted to do. We wanted to reclaim that phrase. And that's what I'm trying to do now, because two decades in the corporate world, I believe it's time to reclaim the phrase like a girl once more in the world of. So, you know, I'm trying to use all my learnings from the corporate world and, you know, bring them back into kind of helping men and women, you know, lead from the heart. That's the essence of it.

Brands have the power with their messaging, with their ad campaigns to have such a massive impact on future generations, existing generations. And I think so often people don't really stop to think about that because we're thinking of, like you said, selling pads, selling tampons. What are the numbers? What's the net revenue? You know, we fixate so much on the job at hand and the goal that we lose sight of that bigger moment. And for you, the thing I'm learning through being there, like doing the work, getting into the homes, like going back to the grassroots, is what really triggered and opened up your eyes to that potential. Is that right?

Yeah, I think, you know, and I do a lot of find your purpose workshop that's, you know, I do a lot of leadership development in companies, and the one I love the most is the find your purpose. I go really deep into their own stories to find what they're passionate about and how they can create this magic links between their strengths, their passion areas, and then what the world needs. And you will be surprised. And it's not just brands. It's any job that you're doing. You know, it's not a job if you bring your heart into. Into the work. So the first dimension of leading like a girl is leading with purpose, you know, which is finding what you're good at, what you're passionate about, and how you can bring it to life and aid what the world needs. And you'll be surprised. I mean, CEOs tell me, oh, I'm scared they will do and they will leave and live in the Himalayas. And I tell them, no. I mean, there's a lot that can be done within these big companies, right, to bring out. And it unleashes so much passion that, you know, that's when you create really magic. You take your strengths from good to great. So I'm a huge, huge believer. And that's my first chapter actually, in the book is leading with purpose.

And so how do you enable people or how can you advise people listening to unleash their passion?

So it's a process. I mean, you can go through on your own. I actually put the whole process. I tried for the book to be very practical because I'm a very practical person. So I combine three things. I combine storytelling because once a marketeer, always a marketeer, right? And I feel when you speak from the heart, you know, you reach the heart, right? So storytelling is a big deal, and that makes everything relevant. And then the second dimension is science, and I use the science of positive psychology. Psychology. I'll get to that in a bit. But when I decided to leave the marketing corporate world, I actually went to study and I studied the positive psychology and organizational psychology. And when I studied positive psychology, I kind of realized, wow. Everything I believed about leadership is grounded in research. So when I go to companies today and I talk about happiness in the workplace or purpose, everything is grounded in research. Happier people are more productive, people that have a purpose have stronger resilience, have stronger relationships, have et cetera. So that's key. So there's storytelling, there's the science element, and I bring a lot of research and kind of scientific facts and then each chapter has a practical part for it. And you know, the chapter around finding your purpose has a whole journey. And the journey I believe you know. And it's also kind of I'm building on Simon Sinek and a lot of work that I've done in insead. But your purpose comes from your heritage story, your ups and down. And when you analyze your own life, the ups and downs in your life, you actually find a red thread. And that red thread is kind of your hint towards so I always knew that I was about people empowerment. I happened to be a marketing director, but it was all about people empowerment, whether in the campaigns I did or the teams I built, et cetera. And that's why I 17 years in P and G, I thrived because I was completely on purpose. It was the last three years when my career reached the lowest point, when I wasn't allowed to bring to life my strengths. That's when I kind of shrunk and that's where I talk a little bit about the importance of, you know, how do you deal with a challenging situation?

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I asked you to try to find your passion. Let's get into that because you know I love that story because I live that story too. So I want to dig into yours. I want to get to that tough moment.

So 17 years after working for P and G, I left and I took a role as CMO Chief Marketing Officer for Asia. Great company. I love the CEO. I love the Global cmo. I thought I landed my dream job right? One week into the job or maybe one month into the job, I got a new boss who was the local CEO and Heather. It took me a week to realize that Tim and I were fire and water, right? So I'm all about creativity and people. And he was all about numbers and scorecard and roi. And most days, the culture felt like ROI or you die. He told me once, I'm not going to tell you what you're good at. It's a waste of time. I'm only going to focus on what you need to fix. Anyone who comes to a marketing would, they appreciate this. But then he says to me, dalia, there's no art in marketing. It's only science. You just didn't get it yet, right? So you see the face. I felt like it was a dagger right into the heart. But anyway, him and I were like a match made in hell. But one day, you know, I think it was like a few months into the role, I got summoned into his office. Okay? Now I'm a C suite woman. I was the only C suite on his team. And he starts giving me feedback. And I love feedback, okay? In P and G, we used to call it tough love feedback. I'm very direct. I love you to say, don't sugarcoat. Tell me exactly how it is. But tough love, it needs to come from a position of care, right? That day, there was no love. It was just really humiliating, Denigrating. And I'm holding it in. I'm a C suite woman. But then he starts insulting my team. Like really very personal. You know, I was getting so frustrated, right? Because it was so unfair. And when I get frustrated, I tear. He saw the tear in my eye and he smiled at me. And he gave me a bubs of juice. And I had this warm fuzzy feeling for a moment. But then I lifted my eyes and I saw something weird in his smile. And he turned around that tissue box, and I couldn't believe my eyes. On the other side of that tissue box was a handmade sticker he prepared in advance, which read, Dahlia's tissue box.

I can't even believe this is a true story. This is how crazy this is.

It's crazy. I reacted like that. I was like, are you kidding me? With a little self, you know, esteem I had left. And he just sat back and he's like, dahlia, stop being so emotional. It's just boy banter. I know you have a sense of humor and I can tell you the interesting thing, right? So I had this amazing career. 17 years. I was one rated, top rated the whole time. And suddenly, you know, I realized why, you know, looking back on my strengths were not only not appreciated, but they were denigrated. I was too good with my people, right? I was too creative. Which is not process enough in one stage. Even kind of, we got feedback that were too negative as a leadership team. And I raised my hand and I said, hey, I'm studying positive psychology. I'm happy to do some programs. And he's like, oh, that won't be needed.

Ms. Kumbaya, this man is the worst man ever. It's like a character of a bad leader.

I can tell you. I learned so much from what not to do. And I never wish this on anyone because seriously, Eda from a super confident person, I started losing my mojo. I was literally, you know, the first year, I still tried to kind of fight and give feedback. And of course I told HR and they just kind of, you know, didn't do much. Not enough about it. I mean, they did in the end, but it was too slow. Second year, I kind of flight, I tried to avoid. I brought kind of data scientists to give him all he needed, right? But I realized at the end of that year, I literally fell physically sick. I realized I left my heart and my art at the doorway. So beginning of year three, what happened? What saved me in a way, because I was determined not to leave. I'm a fighter. I was a gymnast. I'm like, I'm not going to quit. You know, I was the main breadwinner at that time. So I'm like, he should quit. I'm not going to quit. I love what I was doing. So I was like determined to stay. Right. Third year, what happened is I went to a P and G alumni, so my previous company. And when I walked in, that was the wake up call. I planked myself in the chair and I said, whoa, you know, this is what culture should look like. I've been a frog in boiling water because you know how it goes. And I spoke sometimes with even domestic violence. It was very similar. I kept on thinking, I can change. And I learned you can't change someone that doesn't want to change, right? So, you know, at the beginning of that third year, I realized, whoa, I need to leave this toxic environment, but not before I deliver everything I committed because I committed to the CEO and I always deliver on my commitments. So I said, okay, I'm going to stay until the end of the year and I'm going to go back to my strengths. I don't care if he likes them or doesn't like them. So my strengths is people and creativity. And I said, I'm going to bring creativity even to a category. It was washing machines in that sense. And together with the team, we Created a campaign that was very data driven but also very creative and that won an EFFIE award. The first time this brand won an EFFIE award for business results and creativity. And that's when I realized, you know, I found back my mojo and it was time to move on. And I can tell you it's, you know, I always say if it happened to me, it can happen to anyone, you know, because I used to be head of the women's network for P and G and not a pushover. I kind of stand up, but the more resilient I became, the more toxic he became. And I think, you know, I ended up doing my research on it. So I, when I studied in insead, I did the research as me search and I wanted to understand, can you coach yourself out of a toxic environment? That was my research question and my answer was yes and no. So yes, you can build resilience. And the dare to lead like a girl is about my resilience model. Okay. I call it 5P. I talked about purpose. There's all around perspective or perseverance. There's physical power, people and positivity. So that's the model, however, that works for a general hardship or general company. I concluded that when you work for a toxic environment, there really is only one strategy and that is zero tolerance. Zero, right. You with your two pages, you know, that's a zero tolerance zero. I was too empathetic. I kept on thinking I can change instead of saying I'm sorry, you won't talk to me like that. I'm going to leave now and come back when you're ready to talk to me or no, I'm not leaving. Right. So, you know, this is what I work today with women. Sometimes we are, you know, dare to lead like a girl is being in empathy, of course, but sometimes you need to kind of step into your positive masculine, which is your assertive. You know, Muhammad Ali says, float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. Right? So that's kind of one thing that I learned that yes, you should be bringing empathy into the workplace. It's a huge advantage of women versus men and it's high demand. The world is crashing because of lack of empathy. We see it all around. We see it in research. University students that finish they did research and found that their empathy level is 40% lower than university students 30 years ago. It's insane. Wow, that is insane. And it's enough to see how teenagers you have a 15 year old, I have a 19 and a 18 year old and you know, just closing off with a girlfriend over text. He never did that, but his friend did. I told him, if you ever do that, you know, you have the tough conversation and they don't have the tough conversations and they don't have the live conversations. And we're seeing that in the workplace and we're losing empathy, you know, around. I don't want to get into, you know, what we're seeing, some of the other dimensions in the US and around the world. But you know, when I talk back about the corporate world, you know, the way we've been leading until now is crashing. It's not working. The more masculine command and control, and especially when teams are virtual, it's just failing. 85% of employees are unengaged in the workplace. 20% are toxic. They hate their work, and they're determined to make everyone else, you know, suffer as well. One in four experience work related anxiety. So we're seeing, you know, the corporate world is crashing and the reality with the Great Resignation is there. And you know, there was research that just came out to try and understand the great Resignation and they found interestingly, they expected, you know, the reasons to be, you know, pay or burnout. And they found the number one driver of the Great Resignation was toxic environments. So there you go. Wow.

Not shocking to you and me, both of us having been in one before. And I love the way that you described how it advanced and you thought, at first I can change it and then I can survive it, but I don't want to give up and I don't want to give up my team. I had all those same thoughts and I'm so glad that you went and researched that concept to ultimately see, because when you're a part of something, you want to make it better. Well, most people do anyways, right? You want to find a way. But at the end of the day, like you said, when someone who is at the senior most leadership position and is calling the shots when they don't want to change it and they want to keep it a toxic environment that is no place for healthy people.

Exactly. And I keep on saying, like, if it happens to my kids, stay six months. Okay? Because I think if I would have left immediately, try to change things sometimes. I did have challenging bosses in the past and I was actually one of them. Told me, you're the only one that gave me direct feedback. I kind of had a reputation of managing up really well because I'm direct, because I really care. Right. And I heard of one strategy, by the way, you would love it. I heard of one strategy that really worked. When a lady came into a toxic boss and she actually dealt with it head on, she said, listen, this is what I hear about you. I don't believe it's true, but that's your equity. And I'm here determined to help you change that. And it worked for her and the two of them partnered. So I am saying if the boss is ready to change, right, that can be an amazing experience. So give it a try. But you need to really give it six months maximum. Because if you're asked to change beyond your values, beyond who you are, and that's what I felt, I was like suffocated. I was asked to leave my heart and my art in the doorway, right? That's wrong. When you can't bring your full self to the workplace, you're not in the right place for you. And that's something I hope I realized earlier. But I guess going through that is why I'm here today, why I wrote the book, why I'm trying to help other leaders. A lot of it is lack of awareness. A lot of it is skill. Because we can teach ourselves to become more resilient. We can teach ourselves to be happier. Actually in the book, I have this whole model and worksheets on each one and it has been proven that you can teach yourself to be happier. So I think that's an important part of growth, that when it's really toxic and you are asked to change beyond your value, that is when it's zero tolerance and very fast, you let things go in on, ah, it's okay, you become a frog in boiling water. And when I interviewed for my research, 10 of my the people I researched out of 15 talked about being a frog in boiling water. The same sentence. So there's something about that, right? You need to be careful. You need to react to fast. If it doesn't make you feel comfortable, it's wrong. And that's it. You need to stop it in the bud.

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I asked you to try to find your passion. So give us a couple other of the strategies that you have in the book that could help people who are looking for more happiness or how can they create some more happiness in their work life?

Okay, so the first one, as I mentioned, is focus on your strengths. If you're in a workplace where you are not able to bring your strengths to work every single day, you're not in the right place. And we know that. We know people that operate from strengths are two times more likely to succeed. And yes, we also know that only 17% of managers said they bring to life their strengths every day. So that would be the number one. If you only remember one thing from today, it operates from strengths. You know, that's where you find your passion for your work. The second is really having a growth mindset. Having a growth mindset is asking for directions. Okay, is learning to fail or failing to learn? Failing is good. It's okay. It builds resilience. Okay. So don't carry it as a badge. It doesn't mean you're a failure, just means you failed some specific skill that you still need to acquire. So the more you can develop a growth mindset, the more you can grow. The third element, and really an important one, especially for women, is self care. And I talk about, you know, the physical dimension, right. Taking time to breathe, taking time to eat properly. We have more neurons in our gut than anywhere else. Taking time to sleep, recover, digitally detox. Okay. This is a big one. These days. Working from home is, is insane when we don't shut off. And Boston Group Consulting did this amazing research where they forced employees to take an afternoon a week of digital detox and they saw productivity go up by 74%. Wow.

People are going to want that research to introduce to their bosses asap.

Exactly. And I'm actually working with a company here that are working on creating an automatic shutdown of the email between 6pm and 9. So you can write if you want, but it won't get sent to anyone. So anyway, digitally detoxing is really important. The fourth dimension and probably the most important. Okay. And if you want to remember one other important thing from today. Do you know what the number one driver of happiness at work is? Any guesses? People, the people around you. Okay. The quality of our life is the quality of our relationship. And also at work, they did research and do you have a best friend at work or do you have best friends at work? Those were question number one and number two, determining your happiness. And I know it's harder today when sometimes we're remotely or working remote teams, but investing and getting to know your colleagues as people, as human being, I mean, I remember my days, right? We used to go rollerblading in the parking and water skiing and bringing our husbands and children. And you know, it's so, so important. So really creating that bond where you know someone very deeply, you know, in your workplace, that's kind of critical. And then the fifth one I talk about is positivity. And when I say positivity, it's not about being happy, happy all the time, that's really important. Okay? There's no such thing of being happy. It's really the importance of accepting our negative emotions. My professor Talben Shacher calls it the permission to be human. Because who doesn't have sad emotions? Psychopath or dead people. Right. So if you're sad, that's good news. So I think the first thing is really to realize it's okay not to be okay as a leader. You know, understanding, making space for your people to grieve, to take the time. We're in a low space and we just need the time for that. And then as a leader, there's something that's called the upward spiral of positivity. Once you accept the negative emotions, okay, I am frustrated, I am sad, I am disappointed. You name them, you tame them, then you can start looking at how you build hope, how you build gratitude. Gratitude is really focusing on what we have versus what we don't have. And you know, that's another super, super simple strategy that's proven. You know, spending five minutes a day in a state of gratitude completely alters your well being. So, you know, I have in my bathroom a little sticker that says gratitude. And every time I brush my teeth, I spend those three minutes or two minutes, you know, just saying what I'm grateful for and really recognizing. It's not reaching the goals, your goals, that makes you happy. It's important to realize that setting goals is really important. I'm a very goal oriented person. But it's not reaching the goals that will make you happy because you just reach the summit and then you see the next summit, right? It's this climb towards those goals. It's the progress that you're making. So take a moment to, you know, see the view. I always say, have an idea of where you're heading, but don't forget to enjoy the view on the way. And that's key. So, you know, purpose and strengths, perseverance and growth, mindset, physical wellness, which is all around taking care of yourself, putting your mask, your oxygen mask so you can take care of others, the importance of people and getting to know them as human being. And then positivity, which is all around accepting negative emotions and then looking into gratitude. So there's quite a bit that we can do, as you can see, and it's actually a beautiful journey. So I've been on this journey of positive psychology, and as I mentioned, I realized that my intuition about leadership is grounded in research. And Dare to Lead Like a Girl is. It's a provocation. There's no such thing as a masculine brain or a feminine brain, okay? We all have masculine leadership traits and feminine leadership traits. The issue is that the business world has collapsed into wounded masculine power over people versus power with people. So we feel like we either need to behave like that or we sink into our wounded feminine being defensive, et cetera. And I think what I'm provoking is for all leaders to connect to those more historically feminine traits like empathy, intuition, teamwork, all these five P's that I mentioned in order to balance out the world and basically to humanize the workplace. And we're seeing if we will humanize the workplace. Everyone wins.

Dalia, this is so good for everyone that wants to go get your new book. Where do they find it?

Oh, everywhere. I mean, it's Amazon, Barnes and Nobles. I mean, all the indie stores just look there to Lead Like a Girl. Dahlia Feldheim. And I will mention that I decided to dedicate all profits to women causes around the world. So I have a lead Like a Girl school in India. And, you know, I teach Like a Girl programs across. Across the globe. So I've decided, you know, let's give back exactly. With that spirit. And I do hope that, first of all, you know, it will help women and men. And I can tell you I'll just finish with this funny story as an anecdote. I had women call me to say thank you that they decided to step up to dare to do something. I had men calling me. You know, I talk about emotions and the importance of emotions that recognize a woman cried in their office and they suddenly had what to answer them. They said, wow, I see you're really passionate. How can I help? Right? But the most craziest call is I got a guy in Australia who called me and he said, dalia, I watched your TED Talk. I just wanted to tell you I'm a reformed asshole. I want to change. What do I do? So that's an incredible. I even added into the book, if you go onto my website, if you have a boss that may enjoy reading the book, I'm going to send 100 books a year free, anonymously, because I am on a mission. I am on a mission to humanize the workplace. And I think we know the world needs it. We know employees are dying and crying, right? With stress and burnout. And we know we have a way of turning it around. So that's why I feel really strongly about the mission of spreading how to lead like a girl.

Well, get Dare to Lead Like a Girl by Dalia Feldheim. This book is a must. Get Dalia, thank you so much and keep up the amazing work that you're doing.

Thank you so much, Heather, and thanks for all the work you do. Is so aligned.

Thanks, Heather, and thank you for listening. Until next week. Keep creating your confidence. I decided to change that dynamic. I couldn't be more excited for what you're going to hear. Start learning and growing. Inevitably something will happen. No one succeeds alone.

You don't stop and look around once in a while.

You could miss it. I'm on this journey with me.