Maxim Gelmann: Making Sustainability Fun with Stroodles Tableware

Hello and welcome to this episode of Conscious Design. I'm your host, Ian Peterman, and author of the Conscious Design book, and I'm excited to have Maxim with us. He is the chief strudel at his company Strudels, and through his company, he's bringing ego tableware to the world. Welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me. Really excited.

Absolutely. I love what you guys are doing. And before we dive into the what, let's take a little bit step back. How did you get into this?

Good question. I'm asking myself that every day of the week.

No, I'm joking.

Uh, well, my wife is asking herself that. I basically, I have a strategy consulting background. I mean, I did anything from like, I don't know, diapers for the elderly, fashion, cars, and anything. So obviously you work always for someone. Then I moving to London, then got into the whole tech startup scene. But I was always, again, you're always doing something for someone. And my wife was always in the impact sector. I was a little bit jealous of that. Or like, for me, it was always just a buzzword in that sense. And I guess it was like a mix of everything of just wanting to do something with true impact and also like doing something on my own because I was like part of various businesses over the years. But Never on my own in that sense. I think it was all right place, right time. I was just another consulting project when the idea came. First product was a tubular pasta. And I remember like kind of like coming across it. It's kind of almost like all the little light bulb moment and it all came together from there really short and quick, but it was literally just like, well, it's a typical sort of right time, right place. And I was like, there was like, just felt Because the impact it had on me in that second, it was just like, okay, this is so simple, a solution to a big problem that like obviously I'm, I am, or I was aware of at the time through kind of like diving and lots of travels to Asia and then same places over like a period of 4 or 5 years. So it was just like, yeah, the simplicity of it and the impact it then had. So it's almost like I did a mini business plan in my head on the spot there. Consulting skill.

Yeah, I think that's an interesting background. You actually have worked in that marketing side. And that's something that definitely want to— we wanted to talk about is really that marketing side to sustainable brands and how you've been able to do that because it's right time, right place, always great. You got to do something with that to turn it into something. What is your approach, right? And your first product was super simple, straightforward.

Yeah.

How do you go about thinking through that marketing process? Because you don't just do straws anymore. You do a lot. You do a lot of products.

I mean, you set the scene, I guess, like, otherwise people are wondering like, what's what? Or maybe that's good because then they go on Google or whatever. I don't know. But I mean, obviously, so we now do edible straws, cups, plates, spoons, kids products. Some of it edible. So kind of like a wide range. But I think it kind of like to the whole point, I think, well, it was a little bit kind of basing on my skills, but also situation driven, because I knew with the tubular pasta, there's nothing to patent as such. It's always going to be brand first. And I mean, that's all my strength anyway. So basically, and also to set the scene, I'm not building a product business, I'm building a brand first and foremost, like in sustainability. And the brand to showcase that fun sustainability. And the products are literally just ways to build that brand equity up until now, literally just brand touchpoints as such to deliver the bigger picture, which is kind of like to change the communication of sustainability. So kind of I'm approaching it from a perspective of sustainability is this communication-wise, again, a doom and gloom type concept. The imagery, the tone of voice, it's all kind of like polluted beaches, dying animals. So it's quite like a negative super, uh, well, hardcore businesses. Some of them obviously amazing ideas, but even they admitted like just almost like don't talk about the environmental argument. It's almost a nice to have now. It's all about convenience for people. I mean, exactly that. And that's almost like what the nature of it is now. Like people are a little bit sick of the idea, but it's not even like sick of the topic. It's more like it's too big. It's not graspable. It doesn't help that Well, the media almost portrays that small changes don't matter because you only hear whatever whole stadium gone green, whole country gone green or whatnot. It's almost exactly where I come in as saying like it's about small changes. It's about millions of people doing sustainability imperfectly. And it's about like almost like Tabula Rasa having fun with sustainability. So it's the opposite of the Uncle Sam finger pointing mentality of like you're bad, you should do XYZ. It's like here. It's an experience. It's a value add by default, but it's uncompromising. So it is convenient because you're saving the planet without having to do anything and you're actually having fun doing it. And it's almost like it's that touchpoint. It's just an extra touchpoint that brings you closer. Yeah, I'm not naive in that sense. I'm not going to be able to change the world, but it's probably the most powerful touchpoint because it's that medium of sustainability immersion. That's what we do. It's like instead of sending nice pictures and writing nice memos to your staff, this is just going to go past them. Eating your cup, eating your bowl, eating your spoon, it actually delivers the message in a very different way. And hence, as a last thought, I mean, so for those who then look at the website, there's Mr. Strudel's character, which almost like the idea is like to develop him into a symbol of sustainability. So we launched our own certification as well. kind of like the trust mark where he's almost like they're approving kind of fun changes. So for example, a reusable bottle doesn't fit my, my understanding because yeah, that's great. That obviously big applause to people who are doing it, but like to appeal to the 99.9% of people who we need to change to make a difference, that's a behavioral change. You need to consciously bring it, you need to consciously fill it, blah, blah, blah. So that's why this is something I will never include into my portfolio. It's all about like easy changes that are almost seamless. And so that's why it's that Mr. Strudel's character is then there to approve mindsets, approve changes. So if you're a bar, you're reusing the orange peel after a Negroni to make marmalade. That's where I'm going on a larger scale, is to create a brand, kind of almost a counterpart to David Attenborough and Greta on that more playful end of the spectrum, with the character becoming that new symbol And if you see him attached to a product, that's a cool, fun product.

Right? I love the idea because it's one of the issues that I've seen with sustainable brands. If you go— and really any, any leap, right? If you go too far out from where your customer is right now, they might go, yeah, that's super cool and complicated. I'm gonna do what I know and do what is easy. So I love that you're— and because you're not just one product, which is great. Somebody wants to start a new product company, fantastic. But we— I think it's great that you're also in this space because you're able to approach it from this, hey, there's plenty of good products out there, but let's do some serious branding and let's really help. Because I think that's one of the things that every time you launch a new company, You have to go through that, right? But if you're able to build that up, you can be that trusted brand, right? That certification. And then if you're— when you find this, a new product, you can go, oh yeah, it's great. And then help quickly bring it to market faster almost rather than—

No, correct. So that's what the idea is. Like, obviously, like, by probably this time, and much earlier than that, probably by Q1 next year, I mean, the portfolio is constantly growing. It's now We've introduced new products with the, like, kids party bag plastic alternative replacements. It's almost like I've done the blueprint now where I've taken, I've partnered with someone, she had the more, well, the actual product idea. We're kind of using my branding, using my marketing distribution network. So the idea is like to constantly, yeah, add more to that portfolio, but then the certification is gonna go further in auditing a sustainable mindset because at the moment the problem with B Corp and any other certification out there is that yes, you get a nice certificate, but you not necessarily— doesn't mean you have the buy-in from your staff or suppliers and so on because it's all the structure of it is just a lot of like tick boxing. Whereas again, and plus it's very expensive, all those things. So we are kind of approaching it more from a sustainability mindset and kind of certifying, yes, you might not have the funds, But you are doing the right things and educating your customers and consumers. And so that's kind of like almost the other side of like giving people that. And then the consumer is going to label, let's say, a restaurant to go to places that are doing the right things independent of their financial means. Because, I mean, you don't need much money to reuse orange peel or to use the banana peel to make banana bread. But that's the stuff that gets the buy-in. Otherwise, you just have staff, yeah, they're going to be recycling, but just because they get the paycheck, not necessarily because they believe in it. And I think, and that's what we, what with the certification alongside products, is going to be just giving, well, almost like all the other certificates, and it's kind of literally just looking more at the mindset rather than what you're doing with the supply chain. Because that's the easy bit.

Right. So do you certify all the products that are on your platform? Then are they Are they certified or—

At the moment, it's like the products that we do is kind of like we're kind of like selling them as Strudels. But the idea is like for like third parties, so we're constantly going to be adding products to the, to the portfolio. Obviously, where possible, kind of white labeled or like co-branded at least. And then I think the certification is then gonna— because we build a marketing engine. So if anyone's listening, and let's say they have a great product, That fits kind of like the Strudel's tone of voice and customer. Again, we've obviously almost built that machinery and that Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak kind of scenario of like roll things out and then the certificate is going to go more to give voices to all those people doing small changes because at the moment only the B Corp people get heard. But that's a lot of money, small examples. And I mean, yeah, that's probably a separate Podcast we can fill with the examples of small changes.

Hey, it's Ian here.

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Is this something— are you thinking this certification could apply to a place like a restaurant or something that's— so it could even be more service-based because you're looking at like, how are your— what are your behaviors rather than the product is important that you use, right? Or the ingredients, everything. You are really focused on what are the actions that That you're, you're taking and the approach.

Services, events, kind of restaurants. Exactly. Kind of almost still staying in hospitality because that's what we know, but like independent, just to be clear, kind of independent of my products. So you don't, you're not going to get any bonus points. It's just like, because I mean, there's, uh, yeah, enough solutions out there, but it's more just like giving people a platform to celebrate those changes for the small people. I think the big thing is like the small people.

Right. I love that idea. That's great.

It's still just all in its infancy because obviously there's still enough to do with the, with the products, but more and more that's almost now you're getting it by default when you use our products kind of thing. But then going forward, I mean, that's the subsidiary that we're kind of like pushing out more and more.

Well, I love that idea because there's, you know, there's lots of, take caterers, right? For example, that they do think about those things. They are trying to be more sustainable in everything they do. And, but it doesn't always translate for someone. This would be a great way for people to go, oh, I want somebody who's gonna think about all these things. Oh, they have this Strudel certification. We know that, you know, they're going to do everything they can at whatever event they're catering, right? The as sustainable as possible.

No, exactly.

That's awesome. I know you're busy with the product side. Were you thinking long-term of being able to roll all of that out and you have an idea or is that it's just in process?

Well, no, no, no, no. The certificate is there. I mean, all the brochure is there. We've kind of ordered the first ones. We just need to kind of write it all up and then it's being pushed more proactively now and just like running all the stuff parallel. So I mean, obviously we're constantly on the lookout for more products, but I mean, now the certificate, I mean, it's, Basically, and at the moment tagging along, it's just gonna take eventually a more proactive role, I guess, as a take its own life, if you know what I mean.

So yeah.

That's great. With that, is this something that you're offering globally? What's your, do you have a, are you starting more local to you guys? What's your—

Yeah, at the moment it's more like obviously, 'cause some, there, there will obviously be tiers where it's more kind of like hands-on in that sense. So kind of like, obviously at the moment it's focused on UK. They have just purchased the business in Germany, so obviously we're going to be offering it out in Germany. But then again, if it's big enough company and it's somewhere else, I mean, nowadays you're not going to say no. Own limitation. Yeah, exactly.

Uh, that's fantastic. Going back to the marketing side of things, right, you started off with one product. How have you— have you been able to be really strategic in which products you add, or How have you as a brand, how do you kind of create this product roadmap for yourself? You're not developing the products, but how do you do that with, with what you're doing?

Up until now, it was more like I need to have as much as possible in that disposable category. So that's kind of like where that's almost like the, like as wide a portfolio as possible in disposables. Because I mean, no one wants to go to different places for buying those needs. Plus, it's normally then one buyer. Buying that category. Obviously, now the approach we're taking, and that's another side of the business. Obviously, let's say we're talking to a buyer of a large hotel group. We get them asked, "Do you have sustainable that and sustainable that?" So anything now is going to be demand driven. So the kids products was again more strategic. I mean, yes, it was a product, but I also knew there was directly market because I sell them to those retailers and those hospitality on trade. Customers, so it was an easy one to then sell that into them. But yeah, going forward, I mean, again, we're looking at a lot of stuff for in hotels. I mean, the only thing I know is definitely going to be non-food. That's going to be more than demand-driven. Building out a wider portfolio from while still true to the true those values, but it's almost like again, there can be one delivery and then serving also another buyer that let's say amenities. Rather than just staying like whatever catering.

Did you start being mostly consumer focused? And now you're talking about, you know, hotels and that side. That's very much larger orders. How did that go for your business?

Consumer side was always the brand can only be communicated on the consumer side. Whatever the on-trade customers do to be customers, I have no control of. So that's why it was almost like then creating some form of pull effect. Of let's say the consumers seeing it and then approaching their bars, restaurants, their favorites, and asking them, oh, have you heard of, or why don't you stock that? That was always like the underlying strategy. But at the moment, again, like the consumer side will always be the one for brand delivery. And especially with like more and more products being built out, there's always going to be a bigger consumer side. I mean, yeah, for example, now the kids product, they're much more consumer heavy. But then again, we've built out a corporate amenities version or corporate gift version of them as well. So it always depends because again, distribution I have into— there's always going to be 2 sides to a story. There's going to be obviously the volume is going to be less in retail. There's always going to be both channels because it'd be stupid. Now it's the same product just packaged differently. Right?

Yeah, definitely go after both. On that business side, the B2B side, has there been interest in like co-branding and things like that? Or what have you seen on that? Because we know consumers want it, consumers use it, but I'm curious about what's different when you're dealing with the more commercial side of things.

Well, no, but there the value add from us is more the turnkey solution from a communication perspective. I like, yeah, you're taking the product, but then We're helping you communicate about it, like from a signage perspective to waste management. So that's why it's that marketing value add. Yeah, whether they use it or not is a different question. But I mean, we can almost like— I know you, let's say your football, baseball for the North American audience, and like, let's say, I know your baseball club company colors are whatever, 2 colors. I don't want to alienate anyone, but it's almost like you can dress the Mr. Strudels character to have a scarf in those colors or like his hat. So it's almost like he can be your spokesperson for sustainability, and hence almost like you dress him up to be your— well, yeah, your spokesperson. And like you can kind of almost hide behind him or talk through him. And I think that's the value-add angle on top of the products.

Got it. As a business, right, if you're a hotel or something, you can use— you're providing not just the products, but you're providing This marketing, this communication.

Correct.

Okay.

There was always like from day one the idea that like, 'cause obviously the product comes at a premium, but obviously it delivers so much more to the, for the end user or like even for the customer as in B2B customer. Um, so it's almost that inherent value add. Yeah, the product is marketing on for itself, but then we're kind of providing all those extra resources on top of that.

Right. Yeah, that's very interesting. I haven't heard of any. I mean, sometimes companies will provide some material, right? But I love that you're creating this character, right? You're letting it be a champion for sustainability. And you can, instead of having to figure out how are you going to explain what you just bought to your customers, they can just work with you and go, hey, we want these things, right? How do we tell our guests what to do with it, how to use it? If there's anything different or special, right? That's amazing. How well received were you, right? Because I'm sure some companies don't use it, but some companies do. Have you seen, like, is there, do you know how many relative that use it or is it all just kind of hidden? You ship it off and—

Yeah, no, yeah, exactly. It depends. I mean, like some are more marketing savvy than others and like obviously the large organizations takes longer to sign off. But, oh, and then like obviously with some of this, the primarily marketing angle, and then obviously they're gonna use it more cuz their main motivation is just obviously, yeah, to talk about it.

So probably the ones that are more, more aware and more marketing savvy, those are the ones that take advantage of what you're giving them.

Correct. Cuz I mean, at the end of the day, I'm saving someone work. So like they don't need to do any posts, they don't need to think about content. And don't need to think about point of sale. So yeah, exactly. I'm just taking away the headaches.

Right, right. That's awesome. You're growing, you're doing well. What is your long term other than I know that you have products, you have your certification, right? Is there anything else kind of long term that you're building towards that you can share or?

No, I mean, it's just going to be, I guess, extending the product range significantly and like just having, yeah, much wider Portfolio, but I think that's the so far. I guess that's the kind of the more like logic next strategy. I mean, again, we've just purchased the business in Germany with distribution in multiple countries. So again, it's more than just I guess the usual growth strategies. Yeah, more products and then more business, more customers. So I think and then I guess for me it's easy because it's not like the brand overall holding brand. I can sell anything through it in that sense. So I can easily widen out that portfolio.

Right. Amazing. I love it. As we're wrapping up here, for people that want to work with you, whether it's buying, you know, if you're a business, what's the best place to find you? Social media, all that. Where should people reach out?

Yeah, the website is strudels.co.uk and then Instagram @strudlington, all the same. And then yeah, email, my email is like maxim@strudels.co.uk. So easy.

Perfect.

Perfect.

Well, before we wrap up here, is there anything else that you want to— I know we've talked about a lot, but is there anything else you want to add in that we didn't cover or anything?

No, I think we gave like, we gave quite like an in-depth overview. So like, yeah, just keen to see more and more people strudeling all over the world and having fun with sustainability. So, and thanks for helping, giving me a platform For spreading the message.

Absolutely. Well, hopefully, hopefully we'll be seeing Mr. Strudel on all kinds of restaurant windows. That would be great to have that and be able to see that. So yeah, thank you so much for being on here. This was really fun. I love what you guys are doing. Yeah, for anybody that has a sustainable product in this category, definitely reach out to Maxim and keep it on his platform. Yeah. Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you.

Hey there.

Thanks for joining us for this episode. I hope that you're enjoying the content we're putting out. If you're looking for more ways to learn about this, to get involved, create your own consciously designed products, there's a couple of ways that you can do that. First is our book Conscious Design, which you'll find a link to in the description of this episode. Please check that out. Go over quite a bit of information, what the process is, how I've applied it to product design, and some really great examples of companies out there that are doing really great work. Some of whom you have seen on this podcast. The other way is our course, 4 Weeks to Launch, where I peel back the curtain on how to develop a product start to finish in a way that can create positive impact. Rather than any negative ones. So please check that out. That is a great resource that will also be linked in the description as well. And see you in the next one.