Revolutionizing Sportswear Through Sustainability with Elliot Chaves

Welcome to this episode of Conscious Design. I'm your host, Ian Peterman, and author of the Conscious Design book. And I'm excited to have Elliot here today. He's the founder and CEO of Jasper. It's a platform for finding amazing sustainable products. And welcome to the show.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's great to be here.

It's always love talking to people about what they're doing and it's, I love a good origin story. Everybody, I think we watch enough Marvel now. We all like origin stories. So to start, what got you thinking about this? This is a big, I feel like there's a big undertaking to build, build a platform like this. So how did you get started? What drove you to go, yeah, I'm, I'm the guy. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go do this.

I don't want to speak for us all because I'm still kind of a new entrepreneur in a sense, you know, but, you know, I think that we all have that moment of like, you know, why us? You know, it's like, why should it be us? You know, and, and it's in the industry, it's known as like the imposter syndrome, right? My origin is, you know, I come from a fashion design background. I went to college for fashion, started my career in New York. You know, working for Kenneth Cole and starting there. And then, you know, as time goes on, you know, it just—I started looking at through a different lens of a consumer and what I was missing, what I wasn't getting. And it was brutally difficult to find the fashion, the clothing, the gear, whatever it is for my lifestyle. It was just. Insanely time-consuming and it was more effort than it should ever be. And then when you throw into the sustainability aspect to it, you know, it's just, it was such, it was, even now, even though it's getting more and more and more aware now, people are becoming more aware of this now. It's even 5 years ago, it wasn't that prominent, you know? So I think just kind of saying, This reflecting, connecting the dots on my life, you know, on, on, and, you know, there's, I can stay on the surface of that or I can go very, very deep into that rabbit hole up there. But, you know, I think it just, I realized, you know what, I'm, it's, I need to do something about this. You know, this is my next personal and professional journey. And so because I wasn't being, getting what I needed out of the, out of this part of my life, It was something that, you know, I realized that I can be part of creating something that adds solutions to the world or just sitting back and doing nothing, which is not me as a person. So I just decided to take action and thank God I was naive because if I knew what I was getting myself into, I probably wouldn't have done it. You know?

I feel like, I feel like that, that sentence right there is behind pretty much Every entrepreneur, everybody who starts a business the first time, they're like, yeah, I, you would've actually told me, or if I'd actually listened to all the people that told me it was gonna be hard, I, I didn't, I didn't connect the dots of just how you said hard, but I, I didn't get it. And then you're in it and you're like, well, I'm committed now. Let's do it anyway.

Yeah, exactly. It, it's come to a point where you're, you've gone, you've done so much that it's like you can't go back. You know, I mean, I've started a business. I've co-founded a small business and sold it successfully before, but it was nothing on the scale of what we're trying to do now, you know?

Yeah. Well, that too. It's easy. It's, well, I shouldn't say easy. You can start up something and if it's a very small scope and it's very, really well defined and people have done it before, like there's ways to make it easier. For sure. But then there's what you're doing, which is a whole new thing. For people that won't know what Jasper is, what is the goal? Like, what is your goal for this platform? For people to use it? How, what do people get from it? Because you're mentioning like it, you're missing this component from your life being able to do this. So you just explain a little bit in your own words.

Yeah, of course. No, I think that's a great question, especially for as an intro. You know, I think so we started out as doing, you know, all of fashion, but very, very quickly into this journey that we were in, it, we became hyper-focused on sportswear and activewear. So what Jasper is, you know, our mission is to allow people to stay active while consuming responsibly and helping restore balance to the planet. Period. That's it. And there's obviously a lot of the backend to that, which is, you know, which is again, going back to why I started it. And it's, we needed to figure out, so Jasper is a sustainable sportswear marketplace that enables sustainable living through media and community. And it's kind of a mouthful because We're building something that's never been built before. And so we're still kind of figuring out what exactly we are, because we're kind of a hybrid between a search engine and a marketplace. And for multiple reasons, but you know, we've since day one of me walking the streets like an idiot on San Francisco, begging people to test my very black and white 2D crappy prototypes and saying, hey, does this help you in any way? Till, till now, we've evolved because of what people are asking for and what they need. So, you know, we offer a media, a market, and a community. And so we're referring to them as our eco-market, eco-community, eco-media. And everything revolves around living an active and outdoor lifestyle and sustainable living, or circular economy, or zero waste, whatever you want to call it. And so the point of Jasper is, you know, yes, there's a lot going on. But I think today and age, the modern consumer and modern person needs, you know, a bunch of stuff in an all-in-one kind of one-stop shop. And so we sell new products with brands on our platform, you know, but The goal of Jasper's market or eco-market is to promote buying less, buying better. And so what that means is, you know, user-to-user transactions, you know, rent stuff, buy used gear, you know, but when you do need new products, we vetted these brands who are partnered on our platform. So they have to meet minimal sustainable requirements in order to even be on our platform. Then we rate them with our own rating system that specifically is catered to sportswear and activewear because it's a very different beast than ready-to-wear fashion.

Right.

Then we provide the information from our media, you know, what you're a snowboarder, a trail runner, a kayaker, whatever it is you love to do. You know, how your life impacts the planet, you know, and we want to provide you with, you know, basic knowledge and foundation of what is sustainability, what's greenwashing, what's circularity, just kind of give the people, the consumers, even though our team laughs about that word, you know, we, we want to give consumers, you know, the information that they need, the education, the knowledge that they need and want. To know who their money is supporting, you know, what they're buying from, what, what their buying habits contributes to and how it impacts the planet. Then of course the community. Sorry, I know this is a long roundabout answer, but then there's a community that, you know, revolves around this kind of stuff. And when you feel like you're part of something that's bigger, if you are part of a community where other people share your own passions and lifestyles. And choices, it's a powerful thing. I'm not trying to plug in this. Actually, I won't give them their name, but there's this meditation app that I absolutely love, and I'm it's like the only app that I actually pay because I'm this my spiritual you know awareness and beliefs, and I get to share that with this kind of community around the world of people, and I've met tons of people already because. Based on this, you know, similarities. And so I believe that by giving all of those core pieces in a one-stop shop, if you will, is extremely important to allow people to, you know, feel heard but get what they need in the way that they need it, you know, and instantly where it's not time-consuming as well. So it's about convenience and trust and building relationships.

Yeah, I love that. 'Cause it's one of the things I talk to with clients and just anybody that's in this space is a lot of people focus on sustainability, but sometimes they make it hard, right? It's like, oh, this product is really sustainable, but it's a pain to deal with. And so like that convenience level of you can't be harder to use. than the unsustainable option. Otherwise, a lot of people are just, they don't have time. They don't have, right? Time is a valuable resource and they don't have the time to deal with it. So being able to package it together like this, and I think outdoor, I feel like outdoor anything is very community-based in any way. Like it's, see, like hikers groups, anything Any of the kayakers, like they all just somehow anyway, just group together. Like it's very, I don't know what it is about the sporting outdoor world, but it is very tight. You'll find very tight groups of community and here's the club and very, it's just there. Like it's somehow woven in. Like if you do that, you're probably very community driven. So. It makes perfect sense for you to go, yeah, we're doing this space and there's community in there. And I feel like it's great. And I love your point of how it helps people, right? Because it's, if you're just doing it alone or trying to figure out stuff, it's really hard. You got, it's better to do it in a group and be able to share. And it probably for you guys as well as a company, it probably gives you a lot more feedback because you are trying to do that filtering, finding the right things. If you have a community, you can actually get really good feedback. And, you know, if 10% of your community says we want X, then you can, you know, you, you have a pretty good direction of like, oh, well, we're pretty good. Or 90% says we want this, this is a must-have. We gotta figure out what we can do. With that, how— now from your standpoint, right, you're not developing your own products, you're this platform, you're this hub, basically. What are some of the criteria that you use to go, yes, this is sustainable? Because there's, there's so many metrics, right? And you touched on a little bit, right? There's, yeah, it's sustainable. But how about you not buy 3 of them a year and have it last longer? So how do you guys look at that for the brands you work with?

Man, you opened up a whole can of complexity, man. You know, I think—

Let's do it. Rabbit hole.

Yeah, exactly. This is, this is why this transformational period of sustainability and implementing sustainable practices into whether it's for-profit or nonprofit profit companies is a big deal, you know, and one, you know, when we talk about this kind of stuff, it's, if you're not authentic, like you're already going to get, you know, martyred, you know, stoned and all that kind of stuff, you know, and so it's like, which is great because people are passionate about this. But, you know, I think one, before I answer that, I want to clearly say that You know, we're, we're just like everybody else, you know, we're forever evolving, forever learning, you know, we're not perfect, you know, we're, we're trying to do the best that we can, but in this space, you know, driving positive change, this is our starting point, you know, and we will evolve and we will be different in 5, 10 years and next year than we are today. And that's the whole point because we have a lot to learn as human beings of how to be truly sustainable. And then when you throw that gauntlet of a phrase of fashion industry, and is it, you know, is it an oxymoron to never be sustainable? I know, in a sense, but, you know, it's tough to say. So, you know, some of the criteria, you know, like we, with the brands, like we have like 5 major sections, you know, it's like, some of them are like workers' well-being, you know, how the durability of your product, the end of life, you know, What's the brand's philosophy? You know, what are the materials that you use and what they're made out of? The value chain, you know, if you don't know, which is probably the hardest to know, because even the majority of fashion brands, which is crazy, they don't know where and how their, their products even were made, you know. So if they don't know, how are you supposed to know and then, and then rate them on that and judge them on it? Or, you know what I mean? Not judge them, but objectively, you know, communicate their practices to the world. So it's—

Yeah, that traceability and accountability.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. How have you— because that's, that's a can of worms and it's on its own. What have you found is really— are there any commonalities, right, when you have a supply chain? Like you said, it can be, it can be hard to figure out where did this actually come from? Have you come across any businesses that are doing it really well or a method or process that you guys have been like, oh, this is great. Like this makes our job easy because it's pretty well put together. Or is it still just a minefield that you're not, not sure yet?

That is such a great question. You know, first, again, let me clearly say, like, I'm not the sustainability expert. I have, you know, my business partners are the sustainability experts and stuff like that. I studied as much as I can. I've taken courses and classes and blah, blah, blah.

Oh, you can study until you die.

Exactly. But I didn't go to school for it. You know what I mean? And I'm not an expert.

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So, you know, take what I say with a grain of salt, you know, in that sense, but, you know, I'm really thinking here, man, because there's, you know, I think one, one company that I'll mention, you know, which is the most obvious company, but it's obvious for a reason. And that's Patagonia. And, you know, no, they're not as sustainable as we all think and all maybe are led out to believe. However, they're still an amazing company. Yeah. One, how big they are and what kind of they do. And they actually promote buying less, which is crazy. And then which in turn, people actually buy more of that because it's kind of like a reverse, you know, effect on that. But, you know, we're still too young of a company. And to, you know, we don't have those type of business relationships with A great assortment of brands right now to give that a much— an answer that it deserves in a sense. So let's just say we're still entering the minefield, you know, as you put it. And, you know, I think the thing is because we can all do better, no matter if you're a Patagonia or a startup, you know, they're still trying to do better. So, you know, no, there isn't really a, a, a one, a, a company that's, that sticks out more than, you know, than that right now.

Yeah, it's a big issue. I've had lots of conversations, especially in the fashion world with people, and it's just, yeah, no one has figured it out. So I ask every, you know, in this space, like, hey, have you seen anything? Because Eventually someone will be like, I found it. I found— and then we just need to tell everyone. But it's a process for getting there.

I think, to be honest, at least from my standpoint, Ian, is like in the next 5 to 10 years, I think we'll have better answers for that. You know, like on a serious note, like, because I mean, that's why we're in the business, you know, it's to, it's to filter down this lack of knowledge or this knowledge that is purposely or unpurposely hidden from us, you know. So I think it's discoverability, traceability, and all this kind of stuff. And there's amazing companies that are doing amazing things out there. You know, our focus is just on responsible consumption. And if it wasn't for many other companies, you know, doing really cool things, we wouldn't even be able to do what we were trying to do. You know, I think there's one company that's like creating like product passports from concept, you know, to Till, till, you know, the grave in a sense where they, you can see and trace exactly along the value chain your product that you bought came from. And that's still far away from being perfect as well, because it's insanely difficult. But, you know, I think, I think that's the whole reason why, like, we are in business and why I believe our business will be successful is to help break down this complexities.

You know? Yeah, I think it's gonna take a lot, a lot of it, and then it'll get there. 'Cause one of the things that we're, I have, I've had a few recent conversations with companies that it's like, hey, well, we could technology, could you use it? 'Cause I, I meet all kinds of interesting technology, like, hey, this could, like, I could definitely see this tracking it.

Sure.

And they'll go, yeah, but if we add a dollar to every component, Now your jacket, you want to— you, the customer, are going to actually pay $50 extra just for having tracked other people? Like, yeah, we can do it. So like, there's some really interesting technologies, but some of it comes down to, well, okay, no one wants to pay for it.

Right, right.

We haven't found the option yet. There are options, they're just not Right. No, you're spot on. And that's the thing.

I think one, the majority of at least the younger generation, so our target market is of course the younger generations and being more specific, you want to talk about millennials, whether that's 27 to 42 or that little, I know there's a give or take a few years there.

Yeah.

But even Gen Z, I mean, they're both, They have some overlapping commonalities, but I think these guys are the ones that are leading the charge and driving this change for us. And they are willing to pay more for these sustainable products, which is amazing, especially since inflation and all this other kind of stuff in life is just brutally hard and getting harder because the broken system in a sense, right? Which is a whole nother podcast for you. But, but, uh, yeah, the good news is that they, the majority of these, of this market is willing to pay more. The, the, the caveat behind that though is companies like Jasper to allow them to give them reasons, trust to why they should or should not spend, you know, what the X amount more that they did on this product, you know?

Yeah, that's a good point of having that. Kind of, it's just third-party verification, right? It's like, hey, I have a good product. And then somebody else goes, yeah, they actually do. That's true. Like, person A is telling the truth. It is good. We've validated that. And being that platform, because it's, yeah, I know there's tons of studies out there like, oh, people are willing to pay more. But at the same time, people don't always, always do that. And so that, yeah, that's a really good point of bringing that validation piece. Do you, you're going through, you know, companies and you're growing obviously the number of companies you have. Are there any, anything that you look for specifically? Like, are you in expanding, like, are you staying here in sports? Is there any other areas that you're like, oh, I wish Like if you had a wishlist of companies or spaces, like, is there any missing gaps? Because that's one of the things I think people are always looking at. Well, how do we do a new, especially in the fashion world, there's so many fashion startups. They're like, oh, I'm sustainable, but we don't need another. I mean, we can always use another one, but I don't think we need another, you know, purse or dress or pair of shorts that's sustainable. Like we have options there. Are there any holes that you see? They're like, yeah, there's nobody doing anything. So like, we can't even do this type of garment because no one's even trying to make it.

You know, I think if you're talking about just regular fashion, you know, I think no, I think for the majority of people are really doing a lot of things. You know, I think they're doing a lot with mushrooms and testing with mycelium. You know, on that note, there are people trying to create biodegradable products and, you know, whether in plant-based products, vegan, you know, non-synthetics, you know, and even reusing and repurposing, you know, whether it's plastic bottles, which, you know, there's PET, P-E-T, um, you know, which is not sustainable, to be honest with you. That's again, it's like misconstruing these concepts of, oh, we're taking plastics from the ocean and turning it into fabrics that now you can wear. You know, one, yes, in theory, it's great. You're taking trash off out of the ocean, which is a beautiful thing, but you're creating something that can't be broken down again. You know, it can't be recycled and reused. So, and so by definition, that is not sustainable. You know, and for me personally, that's just biased. I don't want to wear plastic bottles on my body. You know, that's that, you know, but it's not my particular choice of material.

I'm not wearing plastic bags. That's not really my goal.

Yeah. Yeah. The trash bags, you know, you see in some fashion runways. Um, you know, I think, you know, it's, it's, I've been out of the fashion industry for some time now. So I'm sure I'm leaving maybe a handful of things out that I'm unaware of. But from my position where I stand in, because my world is very small right now because I'm building a startup. So I, you know, That's my world. But I think, you know, the— there's enough because people ask us like, hey, are you gonna make Jasper apparel? And I'm like, no, there's so much— like, there's so much waste and landfill of apparel and stuff. It's just, we don't need more. You know, I think, to be honest, again, this is so biased and so like plugging in my company and stuff. And I'm not trying to do that. But Like, all right, even if I don't say anything about Jasper, with any company doing anything that's like relevant to Jasper that is in their own industry, whether that's making things easier, you know, for the consumers to consume and giving knowledge. So, you know, to me, I think not on the fashion side of things, but on this intention-action gap, which is kind of like our our main issue that we're trying to solve here, because a lot of these are just consumers. They have intentions. They want to lower their environmental impact. They're trying to consume better, buy better, but, but they don't have the knowledge. They don't have the tools. They don't have the understanding and the trust to do it. So I think that's why Jasper exists is because there is a gap and there's a hole that's missing in this kind of You know, it's we're like kind of a matchmaker or a therapist, if you will, like between brands and consumers, you know. And so like there's this intermediary, and Jasper as a whole, we need to become credible that way because like who who's Jasper? Who are you guys to be the validators of giving you know making sure these guys are credible, right? And it's going to take time for people to trust us and. The only way to build that trust is to be completely transparent, communicate what we can, you know? So I think that's the best example I could give to that question, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. Which I, it's needed. It's definitely needed. That was a good plan. 'Cause it's, from what I see, and you can, you can let me know your thoughts on, on this if you have different ones or anything, but what I'm seeing it is consumers are almost expecting, right? I feel like there's a lot more expectation that a brand has sustainability as part of it. But they don't always make that decision. They're like, because there's been so much greenwashing, I feel this greenwashing was successful. Everybody wants eco-friendly, but now nobody knows what is eco-friendly anymore. Because there's like, well, this company says they are, but this company says that this company is not. And so now you have what you said, there's that information gap where they want it. They know that here, I saw a study, it was like 87% of the US agrees that climate change is real, which is like the only thing that we can agree on. Like it's now superseded politics. Wow. It's a good stat. In general, like we can agree on that, but not who to vote for. Or anything else. No, it's not even right. We can agree that that's real. It's like, it's there. Like, we know we want it, we know it's there, but we also know greenwashing is real. And that, like, it's, it's a bit of a dichotomy I feel going on. And it's going to take some time to teach people, actually show people what's, what's Real, what's not real. But I think, but I feel like the demand is there. So it's great to hear, you know, and it sounds like that's what you're finding as well. Like there's a really good demand for it. It's just positioning and going, hey, this is real. This is why it's real. This is why you should trust this brand. Here's all the proof. Here's that passport to prove you it's actually sustainably created, and then you can make, you can help people make that decision and purchase something.

Yeah, no, again, you're spot on. You know, I think too, like I was reading this article in the Harvard Business Review and trust me, I'm not trying to sound smart. Like I read Harvard Business Review all the time. Like I never do. It was just an article my advisor sent me. So the only reason why I'm mentioning it is because it's an insanely valid source.

Right.

And so, you know, they came out last week and they're stating that, you know, the majority of people, you know, are, like you said, it's one, they're expecting it, you know, but two, you know, one thing that drives, and if you want to talk like even business stats and ROIs with people who are more financially in tune with startups and Businesses, etc. You know, you have you know the trust and the sustainability, and then the buying power. So the the trust you know is actually equates to higher stock returns and higher purchases, which is what these kind of companies survive off of and live off of. So you know if people are willing to pay more, you know if people are literally demanding it, you know I've come through a range of people who. One, I would love to talk to that 13% who don't believe in climate change, because that's like, let's just have at it, you know?

Yeah. Let's see what's left.

Seriously. But these, you know, these people who, you know, I've seen of a range that where people are like, don't even know how to like anything about recycling. They think recycling actually works and that kind of stuff to people like myself and beyond who are so aware and granular. And they call me out on my own mistakes and it's, you know, that kind of stuff. So there's just wide gap of these consumers of, of, of, of where that knowledge is missing, you know? And so I think I say that because it doesn't matter, you know, if you're a professional or not in this arena, it's just, there's always more to know. And what it boils down to from what I've asked hundreds and thousands of people at this point, not hundreds of thousands and thousands. Just wanted to clear that up. Is convenience. That's why fast fashion is fast fashion. It's like, it's so convenient. How could you not buy it? Exactly.

It's a Staples easy button for—

Oh, exactly. I forgot about that. That's a good, good one. So if you can make sustainable options and alternatives Equally or more convenient than the non-sustainable options, you're already a leg up, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's been spending a lot of time like researching and looking at this. And I think there's been, it's, it's changed. Like I think 10 years ago, I was able to talk to people that are like, oh, I have a sustainable whatever. And that's all I had to do is say, oh, it's sustainable. And people were like, all right, take my money. And that, and that, no, that worked for a while and it got a lot of people going. It's great, right? Lots of companies started up. Some of them are doing really well, but now people are also going, well, but does it actually solve my, like, is it easy to use? Is it? It's not. I bought it and it sat in my closet for the last 8 years and I still haven't used it because it was a pain. I used it once and it was Horrible, and then you know it's trash now, and it's so it's good. I think it's changing, and I think you know your platform being able to educate people and be that platform for people to identify hey this is good. We'll make it easy for you. You don't have to do all this hunting on your own. We'll curate it basically and go hey here's you know you want. X, well, here's 3 options that we found, or here's 100 options that we've found that can actually do what you want it to do and happens to be sustainable, which I think is great. I think that's what I try to tell every startup now that says, I'm sustainable. Like, well, solve a problem and then happen to be sustainable and people will love it and actually use it. So this is the key. You want it to be sustainable, they got to keep using it over and over. That's Part of how it's sustainable.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, there's, like you said, there's many aspects. And then going back to what you said earlier, like that keyword is eco-friendly. Like that word almost means like not sustainable. If you see like a company that just says we're eco-friendly, no, they're most likely not sustainable in any way.

Especially if they have a green leaf right next to it. Yeah. Then it's probably not, it's extra, too extra. Yeah.

So there's, that's another thing too, right? Like people don't know, it's like, it's like how to read labels, how to care for your product to make it. Because people, it doesn't just stop with you when you buy it, you have to take care of it, you have to care for it, you have to, when, when, when it, when you don't want it anymore, what do you do with it instead of just tossing it and forgetting about it and out of sight, out of mind, right? But, you know, it's, it's the last, this is the last mile, which is with the consumer.

Yeah.

So we have to make things easy for them. Again, all about convenience, man. You know, if it's convenient, people will do it.

Well, I'd love— but you mentioned to the whole care part, because I feel like that's, you know, a lot of times we think as the average consumer is like, oh, well, I bought something sustainable. So now it's sustainable. No extra anything to it. It just is. And not really counting in the fact that Like care, right? If you take care of it properly, maintain it properly. I mean, we think about that stuff for, well, most people think about that for things like cars.

Right.

But that's because we're like, oh, we just spent $30,000 and however much interest over the next 7 years to have that. Yeah, of course I'm going to take care of it. But people don't necessarily think about that for, you know, I don't know, anything else, water bottle, right? It's like, Your sh— or even your shoes. Like people don't think about it like, oh, well you could take care of your, like your shoes could last a long time. You can get them resoled. Like there's all kinds of things you can actually do to keep things going. So that's, yeah, that's a really good point to bring up. I think a lot of companies don't really focus on, I mean, some of them do, they're like, oh, here's our care product, but it's not, there's not as much Like, hey, yeah, buy this. And there's a lot of focus on, oh, well, if that's bad, like, well, maybe we'll buy it back or buy a new one. And not as much on, well, here's the repair kit or here's the care kit. And we'll sell, you know, 100 of those because hopefully for the next 40 years you're using it. It's a different way of thinking. And it's, yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that because it's A lot of people ignore that component, which is important.

Yeah, I mean, we're all— and that's the thing too, right? Like, we only know what we know. And so we're all along our own sustainability journeys and becoming sustainable, right? So it doesn't matter where we are. And this includes me, my company, and everybody. It's like, it's just about being better today than you were yesterday. That's it, period. And the same with our partners and brands. And so if you can take care of something, you know, so I know I'm basing a lot of things as well, like off of my own experiences in life, you know, so over the past 10 to 20 years, more so 10, but I think it gradually started almost, almost 20 years ago, you know, where, you know, it just, you become, you learn something and you become, I want to say a master, but you know, you become really knowledgeable into something and it affects your life. And so let's say, you know, for Jasper, for instance, let's say people are become, you know, if we can change the way, you know, my personal goal, which I get, you know, smirked at a lot, but my personal goal for Jasper is to change the way 100 million people consume in a positive way. You know, that would be a win for me. And so if we, if you do that, you know, if you start learning how to consume and buy responsibly and sustainably with, with the products and gear based on your sportswear, activewear, and your active lifestyle and whatever, you know, it naturally overflows into other aspects of your life. It's like, oh wait, oh man, then you start learning all this knowledge and stuff about sustainability. And so it's like, I'm not buying that toothpaste. I know about this about that brand. You know, it's, it's surrounded and encased in plastic. So it just overflows, right? And so It's, that's why I think like consumption for some crazy reason, it's like, it's overlooked right now and it's not as important as, you know, I don't know, capturing carbon and turning it into ink or whatever it is you want to do with it. You know what I mean?

Right.

So it's just massive, massive risk, you know, and it's a powerful concept, you know? And so, you know, I think that is the most important things to focus on while, but I don't want to discredit, you know, all these other awesome companies doing cool things because we need everyone and everywhere needs to be doing their part. Like, I forget where I heard it, but someone's like, yeah, it's in the climate change is an all hands on deck event. And so everyone either has to take part and do it or, you know, support the people that are doing that.

Yeah. And I think That ties in really well with, with another thing I, people mention and I try to tell people is like, we get so overwhelmed, right? If you're like, I'm gonna solve it, like, no, no, you are not. Like, don't take that on.

Exactly.

That is not, that's bad. Go see a therapist. That will, that will ruin your life if you try to take on that problem alone. It's all about if everybody just takes baby steps. We'll be fine. Like, it'll be whatever change we want to do, just do little steps towards it and it will happen instantly. But I mean, we didn't create climate problems instantly either. So there's— magic wand is not available. Just take baby steps. It's okay. And that's a big thing for, for me too. I, 'cause I work with a lot of startups and people getting off the ground. And they go, oh, well, we can't. Sometimes it just goes, well, we can't think about it at all. I'm like, well, yeah, because you're trying to solve everything right now. We can't do that about anything. Like, there's no version that you do that anyway. There's no, like, perfect product that solves all the problems all at once. Like, that's— I don't know, that would be magic. We will accomplish some level of controlling our universe that no one has In our entire existence as humans. So while we're getting there, like, it's, you're just going to solve little pieces, do like whatever you can, and then do better next time. Like, it's, that's, that's success. If you stop doing better, then, you know, that's kind of failure right there. But—

Or we just invent AI and have it do it for us and create a magic wand for us.

I know.

Because there's nothing wrong that could possibly ever happen.

With AI, especially if it gets a magic wand. Yeah, that'll be fine. We'll be—

Exactly. Oh no, but it's a good point. It's a very good point. Very good point.

Amazing. Well, this has been a great conversation. I'm excited to see where you and Jasper go from here. For everyone that's listening, where's a good place to find you? Anything you want to add? Wrapping up here.

Yeah. You know, I would just want to make it clear, you know, we are not alive. We are not live yet. We're, we're in beta stage at this point. So, but if you want to, like, we, we, we, we need all the help we can get, all the support we can get from people. Um, and the simplest way to support is just follow us, you know, on social media. And I know that's very cliché, but it's true. Um, it shows, you know, our potential and future brand partners, our investment partners, our business partners, our employees, you know, our everything. It shows that people are supporting this and they want this to happen. And, and by doing that, you know, by showing that demand, we can create what is needed, right? So yes, our company is Jasper, but until we are live, everything— well, even after that, but so all of our handles across all social medias right now, it's mainly Facebook and Instagram. I'm on LinkedIn as well. But it's all Hello Jasper. And just to be clear, it's J-A-S-P-U-R, not E-R. And so it's Hello Jasper. And even our, our website is www.hellojasper.eco. That's E-C-O. It's not .com or anything else. And so yeah, if you, you know, follow us and support us, you know, trust me, we could use all the help we can get. If you say, no, they have enough people, trust me, we will never have enough people. Just follow us and that would help.

Well, and now's a great time to give input. So for anyone listening that wants to be part of this and wants to see something added, like this is beta, good time to add features. Add that to your feature list. So always good. Get in, get in early, follow, check 'em out. It's been great chatting with you. It's been a fun conversation. I'm excited to to see you guys when you go live and hopefully more and more partners come on board and see, see the value that they can get from working with you.

Yeah, it's been a blast, man. I had a great conversation. You know, I mean, who— it's about our passions and all kinds of stuff. So it's really cool. Thanks for having me. Hey there.

Thanks for joining us for this episode. I hope that you're enjoying the content we're putting out. If you're looking for more ways to learn about this, to get involved, create your own consciously designed products, there's a couple ways that you can do that. First is our book Conscious Design, which you'll find a link to in the description of this episode. Please check that out. Go over quite a bit of information, what the process is, how I've applied it to product design, and some really great examples of companies out there that are doing really great work, some of whom you have seen on this podcast. The other way is our course, 4 Weeks to Launch, where I peel back the curtain on how to develop a product start to finish in a way that can create positive impact rather than any negative ones. So please check that out. That is a great resource that will also be linked in the description as well. And see you in the next one.