Technology Development with Shelli Brunswick of Space Foundation

Hello and welcome to this episode of Conscious Design. I'm your host, Ian Peterman, author of the Conscious Design book. And with me today, I have Shelley Brunswick. She is the Chief Operating Officer at Space Foundation, here to talk about all things space. Welcome to the episode— show. Thank you.

Well, thank you so much. I'm excited to join you and talk about all things space.

Yeah. So how did you— always start with this question— how did you get into becoming the COO of the Space Foundation? Like, that's a pretty up-there title and position. So how'd you get started?

Well, excellent question, because everybody wants to know what was your journey. So my journey Has 3 main chapters. And so the first chapter was I enlisted in the US Air Force right out of high school. And the second chapter is I became an officer in the Air Force. And then the third chapter is here at Space Foundation. So in that first chapter, you know, when I graduated high school, I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I wanted to see the world and I didn't have college money. So the Air Force was a great opportunity to get stationed overseas, which I did in Turkey and Germany. I learned a profession. They classified me as a human relations personnel specialist. So I learned a skill set, and I was able to go to school at night and earn my bachelor's and master's degrees, which allowed me to start the second chapter of my journey, which was after I applied to become an officer and was eventually accepted, I became a space program manager acquisition officer. So that really is what started my space career as the Air Force helped select it for me. And I had a wonderful time doing that, getting stationed in Los Angeles and D.C. And so it was a great experience. And when I decided it was time to move on to the next chapter of my journey and retire from the Air Force, the opportunity was available to apply to become the Chief Operating Officer at Space Foundation. And through a selection process, I was fortunate and talented enough with the right skill set to become their new Chief Operating Officer.

Amazing. It's great that you got introduced to it and you liked it. I know lots of people, they get stuck in spots they don't like. So it's great that you really fell into it and love what you're doing. How— obviously, Space Foundation is a large organization. So What, what are you typically involved with on the operations side of it? What's kind of your— briefly say what you actually do at Space Foundation. How would you describe that?

Well, I'll share a little bit about Space Foundation. So we are a US nonprofit that does business internationally through our 3 main divisions. So we have our Symposium 365 division. our Center for Innovation and Education, and our Global Alliance. So that Symposium 365 is all about putting on world-class events and bringing space business leaders together. And one of our big events is just around the corner, our annual Space Symposium that takes place in April this year, April 17th through the 20th at the Broadmoor located in Colorado Springs. And we bring together military, civil, commercial, and international space professionals to talk about the future of space. So it's an amazing event. And if you're in the space industry, I hope you'll join us next April. Then through our Center of Innovation and Education, it's all about workforce development. And my heart is really kind of there because that's all about, you know, kindergarten through 12th grade and inspiring the next generation. You know, we have a—

Awesome.

Program called the Leadership Academy, and that's primary school, middle school, high school. teacher professional development. We even have a facility located in Colorado Springs that's open to the public that does scavenger hunts, and we have a Mars rover facility, and we have a Science on a Sphere where we do activities. And so if you're in Colorado Springs, please join us for some fun activities. And then, but we are focused on that current workforce, adults. How can you get into the space industry? And one of our amazing programs is our Space Commerce Institute, and that's all about entrepreneurial facilitation, partnering with incubators, accelerators, universities to help inspire and help launch entrepreneurs into the space industry. So it's really an exciting thing under our Center for Innovation and Education, all about workforce development. And then that third area is our Global Alliance, and that's kind of why I'm joining you today. That's all about partnerships and outreach and sharing how amazing the space industry is and that there's opportunities for everyone to be part of it. So again, those 3 main divisions: Symposium 365, Center for Innovation Education, Global Alliance. And as the Chief Operating Officer, you know, my job is to implement the board and the CEO's goals and visions in order to keep those 3 divisions moving forward. So sometimes I feel like I'm WD-40, you know, just kind of keeping everything moving down the tracks. And moving forward, you know, keeping the team moving, keeping the programs and the energy. And, uh, it's an exciting place. Every day is a new adventure. Every day you come into work, it's something new and exciting.

That's awesome. That sounds like, yeah, quite an adventure, uh, to, to be a part of. What's— you talked a little bit about the, the workforce side of things. Let's, let's dive into that because that's— I've, I've talked to a lot of people in this space. There's places starting to try to create college degrees specifically around the space world in order to educate people and have people have the right skills. Are you guys involved at the college level? Are you kind of— how are you really implementing that?

So that's a wonderful question, and I'm first going to highlight that, you know, at one time, to be in the space industry, you really needed to be a STEM professional— science, technology, engineering, and mathematics— and have a college education. But today, the space industry is so diversified with a diversity of people, ages, genders, regions of the world, and backgrounds. And so there are more than 50 different careers in the space industry that range from high school graduate to PhDs. But to specifically focus on your question about, um, college programs, So we do a non— we do adult non-accredited education, but we partner with universities. So we partner, we're working with schools like Berkeley and Rice and others to create space awareness programs and classes that meet their requirements to help their students understand the opportunities that are really available in the space industry, both today and in the future, and how their students can pursue careers in those industries. So that's how we work together collaboratively with universities and colleges.

That's awesome. Are you— obviously it's growing and there's grown quite a bit. Is the— I know NASA just got a 6% bump in their budget this year. Are— what are you seeing? Are you seeing more growth in new areas? Because you mentioned, right, STEM was the first, but now there's all of these other areas. Is it, do you feel like it's reaching its kind of limit to what it is, or is this just the beginning where it's finally hitting a snowball and it's only going to increase the number of different roles and things like that that people can join this industry?

Absolutely. So it's never been a better time to look at the space industry for opportunities. The first thing you can look at is what are the technologies? When you think about the emerging technologies, so you're thinking AI, robotics, cyber, healthcare, energy solutions, those are also involved in the space industry. So in addition to on-orbit satellite servicing and all of that, we're already using robots in space, right? We're sending rovers to Mars and we're going to use AI can help us process the data coming down from satellites. And we're taking a lot of space technology and creating healthcare innovations that are bettering people's lives every day. So if you're interested in the technology sector and those emerging technologies, then you can be part of the space industry. The other thing is there are about 16 different economic sectors, and there certainly is a sector called space, space sector, and that's really your launch vehicles and astronauts and components. But space is actually part of every other economic sector. So it's agriculture, healthcare, the finance industry, education, public safety, transportation, and I can go on. So space is really part of every infrastructure. It's part of every economy. It's part of technology. And so that creates a lot of diversity of skill sets. Again, you know, we need welders and electricians and facilities maintenance and food service in the space industry, as well as astronauts and rocket scientists. So we need everything in between. And so it's never been a better time to look at opportunities in the space industry.

Yeah, I feel like there's a lot more— like, we keep— more startups keep popping up, more, more things. And I, I, I feel like it's always been, right? You just mentioned, like, space is connected to everything. Like, we've had satellites for a long time, right? We've been Cross our thumbs. Have been hitting a tower and then using a satellite for decades now. Do you think it's a shift in realizing how big it is? Because it feels like it was there, but it wasn't— like you said, it was kind of a, oh, STEM, or, oh, you have to work for Raytheon or some big company to hopefully be in their space division to really connect to it. Does it feel like more of just an awareness or is there also kind of like a growth component that happens? How do you think about that?

I think there's, it's twofold. I think for many decades space was known as that is something for other people, right? That's something for astronauts and rocket scientists or people who go work at NASA or for the Air Force, but that's not for normal everyday citizens. And especially as we think about diversity, women, and underrepresented groups, so inner city, rural communities, there's a perception that space is not for everyone. And what I want to say is let's pull that curtain back and say, yes, space is available to everyone, and there are opportunities for everyone to be part of the space industry. So I think one of my biggest roles you know, when I'm not doing the WD-40 inside the Space Foundation, is getting to join wonderful people like you to share that there is opportunities for space awareness, that space is part of our everyday lives. And right now, you and I are using space technology right now to talk. We're using Zoom. Zoom would only be possible with space technology. You know, telecommunications was created by the space industry. Um, my husband was a firefighter for 30 years, and thanks to space technology, he was able to come home every night because fire retardant clothing came from the space industry. So did formulated food. Um, how many of us have looked at the Hubble? You know, we have the James Webb Space Telescope right now, and we're getting amazing pictures and information from that.

That's so amazing.

But, but let's go back to Hubble. And Hubble was designed to look for anomalies in space. And a company took that technology and commercialized it to look for anomalies in the human body. And that's how we came out with mammogram detection. So because of space technology, we're saving millions of lives every year. And so these are just some of the stories that a lot of people don't know how space is integrated in so many ways in their daily life. And they may not be able to understand or appreciate it. They just want to know when they make a call using a cell phone, Or they turn on their TV, you know, for communications, or they go to the grocery store, food that was grown in another country that was shipped to the United States or wherever and is on the shelves is there. And most of those activities is thanks to the critical infrastructure that space provides.

Yeah, that reminds me, I think it was Velcro was invented by NASA to work in space. And I think about like little kids' shoes, right? Little kids' shoes has Velcro. Every, every, everything has Velcro at this point. So yeah, it's, it's an amazing thing.

Yeah.

Like you touched a little bit, and I would love for you to dive more on, you know, the diversity and how you're really, you're helping and other people are really trying to push how there's, it's not just old white scientists in lab coats. Doing, doing space like that, that era is over, could have been over a long time ago, but it is like, what are your— what are programs you've seen really working in that? Like, what, how are you really pushing that and thinking about that side of things?

So when we think back to the 1960s, I mean, that's when space started. You know, we had the Apollo program. We had 2 countries that were in a space race, primarily government workers, STEM professionals, male. So now we look at that diversity. We now have more than 90 countries that are operating in space, and many more countries want to participate in the space industry, not just for going to space, which they do. They want to have their own, their own rocket, or they may want to have their own satellite, or, you know, there's a sense of national pride in doing that. But they also looked at all that technology that came out of the Apollo program and the space program and how that is benefiting us every day. And they saw the commercialization of that, because the commercialization of that technology unlocks economic impact, it creates jobs, and it betters our lives. And a great place for your audience to go look if they're interested in being an entrepreneur and maybe they don't have an idea, they're in the ideation phase is you can go to the NASA Tech Transfer Office, and there are thousands of patents that are waiting to be commercialized in energy, healthcare, finance, communications, and more. And you could even potentially apply for a grant to help you start to commercialize that technology, to build the business plan to commercialize that technology. And the U.S. has that, but ESA, the European Space Agency, as well as the Japanese Space Agency also have patents through their agencies that are available to apply and look at commercializing. So the time has never been better for individuals who want to be part of the space industry, and that could start with becoming an entrepreneur and commercializing space technology that's already waiting for somebody to apply for that patent and commercialize it.

Wow. Yeah, I forgot about that, and I didn't realize that 90 countries is a lot. It's a lot more than 2.

Yeah.

Is it— and you said there's more. Is that something that you're— because you work internationally, are you working with these countries and saying, hey, we recognize this economic value that working in this space industry provides, are they going to you or are you part of that guidance of here's how to do it? Or how are you engaging with those countries that are just, you know, they're not there yet, but they want to be because they see the benefit?

Absolutely. So Space Foundation, we want to be seen as the beacon to the world to help facilitate access to space, the space industry. And so yes, many of those countries are part of Collaborating with Space Foundation. We have more than 40 country delegations that come to symposium every year. We're partnering also through our education programs. We're partnering with organizations like the African Union that represents more than 50 countries, or the Islamic World Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization that has more than 50 member countries, or the Organization of American States, which covers countries in North and South Latin America. So we absolutely are partnering with large organizations as well as countries like the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, and more to help highlight how space can benefit their citizens, but also how we, the Space Foundation, could help them with their workforce development, with their education programs for kindergarten through 12th grade, or helping to unlock entrepreneurship and innovation. So we're here as a resource to help other countries, communities find their way into the space industry.

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That's awesome. Where do you see the biggest, like, growth of it? Is it because you mentioned, you know, Africa and other places that are generally most— especially Americans view them, those places as third world countries? Is it mostly third world level, like countries out of Africa or those, are those the ones mostly wanting to, or are there other, you know, whatever, second world? I don't know how we consider all the other countries that are doing, you know, better economically that aren't known as space, right? Japan, we know, you know, US, Russia, like where, where are you seeing the most growth country-wise?

I am seeing growth everywhere from Australia standing up a space agency You know, you've talked about, you know, we got Russia, China, the US, and the European Union. But yes, absolutely, Australia has stood up a space agency. We're seeing them do amazing things. We're looking at the United Arab Emirates. You know, they want to have a Mars research colony in less than 100 years. We're looking at Bahrain, who is starting to look into the space industry. But, you know, Africa has a lot of potential, you know, with more than 50 countries. Some countries like South Africa are very advanced, and some countries are wanting to get into the space industry and they're more at the entry phase. And again, so Space Foundation can kind of help countries depending where they are in their ecosystem and what might be best for them and their citizens to participate in the space industry.

Makes sense. So you're— and you're seeing probably a broad range of I want to build a rocket all the way to, I just want to build some technology off of something developed in space or for space. Is there, is there more one or the other? Because obviously building a rocket is expensive compared to building technology. So is there, are you seeing it just pretty evenly across the board?

Well, each country has what is their strategy and what is their space strategy, and then that ties in with what their goals are for their country. So each country is a little different. You know, some countries maybe want to build a launch facility and launch rockets and build rockets and create that, and then some areas want to create more incubators and accelerators and help unlock entrepreneurship for their citizens. to create that economic development. So it really— it's not a general blanket. It's very prescriptive for each country. And again, that's why Space Foundation really looks at this in a holistic sense of what are you looking to accomplish? What would benefit you and your citizens? How do you participate with others around your geographical area to complement each other? How do you want to participate in the overall global space ecosystem? And then we can help people find their way, those national leaders, what's the best way for them to participate then in space based on what they want to accomplish. So it's really about what are your goals and objectives, and then we can help you walk into what would be the best pathway forward.

What would you say is probably limited to this year, the most interesting thing you or company come across? I know there's a bunch, so we can be just this year.

So there's amazing things taking place in the space industry. You know, one of the things I like to highlight is, you know, we've been living and operating in space for more than 20 years. And so we have some amazing technology from the International Space Station that we're using here on Earth. And one of those, you know, I don't know, Ian, do you go hiking by chance?

Yes, I do.

So one of, one of the things we do on the International Space Station is every drop of water— I'll hold my Diet Pepsi up— every drop of water is recycled and reused, similar to Earth but on a much smaller scale. So in order to recycle all that water, it has to go through a filtration system, and then it has to be tested, and then we can reuse it. Well, companies have commercialized that filtration system So that individuals who are campers, you may have seen it in your REI store where you can buy a, you know, water bottle that will help filter water from a stream or a puddle so that you can drink it so you don't have to hike with all your water. I mean, that's a very simple form of technology transfer all the way to, you can look at an amazing person I know, Dr. Nicole Wagner, is working to help cure macular degeneration. which is blindness that occurs in individuals as they age. And it's, uh, currently there is no cure, so you just go blind. What she is doing in partnership with NASA is 3D printing lens replacements for your eyes that would eventually give you, give your sight back. So she's 3D printing them on the International Space Station because the way the layering process is in, um, Microgravity environment is better than it is on Earth, and she can do that at a much better cost. So it is still cost effective, and it is a higher quality product to do it in space. And so we're hopefully you know I talked to her about three months ago, and you know they're going through their FDA trials, and hopefully you know with FDA FDA as well as you know this is a human body lens replacement. you know, could be 3 to 5 years, but we're looking at with space technology an opportunity to restore people's sight. So I think that story with Dr. Nicole Wagner and the company's called Lambda Vision is an amazing story. And that's just one of healthcare applications for space technology. Another company, a pharmaceutical company, you know, when we go and live in space, it's a very hostile environment. And our human bodies were not designed to be there. So for women, we develop osteoporosis at an accelerated rate compared to on Earth. So one company has actually manufactured and developed an osteoporosis treatment using space technology to help with osteoporosis here on planet Earth. So these are just some of the types of technology that people don't think about, that we're using space technology To help prolong human life, better human life. I mean, obviously getting your vision back or preventing you from having brittle breaking bones is critical, but there's so many more applications, and that's why it's so important that we're doing these things. Another one I'm just going to highlight as we look at the Sustainable Development Goals that were agreed to by the United Nations. One of those is food security. And what NASA is working on is vertical farming. And we can do vertical farming with inside of a climate-controlled facility with no dirt, no soil, few humans, you know, artificial intelligence and robotics, less water, and we can produce more food closer to population centers. And as we look at the human population growing here on Earth, that vertical farming could be very beneficial, not just for space exploration and living off planet, but also right here on Earth, growing food closer to high-dense population centers, more nutritious, faster, with far less resources, making it more sustainable. So again, just a few highlights I'll give you there about how space is helping us solve some of our challenges today.

Those are awesome. I, I'm impressed. that 3D printing in space for that is cost effective? Because that's one of the things most people think of space as being this extremely expensive world. And it definitely, it definitely was for sure, right? Governments only could afford to do it. But that's a rapid decrease in cost. So are you, are you seeing more of that? That's one application, but Are you seeing more companies look at the cost side of manufacturing and things like that? And are you starting to see people say, yes, it's finally crossed that threshold of now, unless you're the government with a spending budget of the DOD, you can't to— maybe people could afford it if we actually produced it. Is that— have we crossed that line enough where people are able to start Do we want more? Like, is that— are we there, or are we just— are we close?

I think we're very close. I think the first thing we have to look at is how commercializing launch vehicles has brought the cost down. You know, in 2004, the government passed a law allowing for private companies to build launch vehicles and commercialize them. And over the course of that time, you know, 2004 to today, you can see the multitude of launch vehicles that occurred. occurred. But one that was most revolutionary was SpaceX, because SpaceX was able to use reusability, which drove the cost curve down, which made launch more affordable, and creates access to space for not maybe every citizen, but for countries, universities, high school students, you know, people studying to create new cures for cancer. It now created an opportunity for them to explore the possibility of using microgravity to come up with their solution. And now you've seen more players, Blue Origin also coming in, you know, Rocket Lab and more. And that continues to look at lowering the cost, which makes it more reasonable to look at space as a manufacturing location. And then we're looking at companies like Blue Origin who are looking at creating manufacturing in space with their Orbital Reef concept, where companies could do their commercial manufacturing in space. So right now, the ISS, the International Space Station, is very full. You know, there is a commercial section, and the astronauts do work, you know, every day that's related to commercial products and services, but it is very limited. And we're also looking at the International Space Station being decommissioned in 2030. So what are those replacements for the ISS? And we're looking at commercial manufacturing. So you can look at Axiom Space, you can look at Orbital Reef. So absolutely, we are moving towards that direction where space will be part of manufacturing, both for planet Earth as well as, as we move into the cislunar economy, which is the economy between Earth and the moon. And then also as we look at going on from the moon onto Mars and beyond.

Right. And, and you mentioned cislunar, so it seems like there's a lot of focus on that right now. That is our main, but a few, and you mentioned the Emirates, I believe, are looking at Mars. So now we have more countries, right? Before it was just Musk going, going, I want to go to Mars. Mars and NASA finally saying yes. Are you seeing— is that creating— is there so much happening in the lunar space where other countries like the Emirates are going, oh, okay, well, that's, that's happening, so we can start focusing on Mars? Is that kind of the shift you're seeing, or is there— or is that just a few outliers and really everyone's still focused on the Because it's pretty cheap.

I think there's a combination. So I think the reason the US, through the Artemis program— and Artemis is the twin sister of Apollo, the Greek god. So that's how— so we have Apollo and now we have Artemis. And the strategy for the US with our partners through the Artemis Accords is to send the first woman and person of color to the moon to stay, and then we will go on to Mars. Now, the moon is a great trial location. There's an opportunity if something goes wrong to get back into the Lunar Gateway. So there, how it's gonna work is there'll be a station orbiting around the moon called Lunar Gateway, and people can go from Lunar Gateway down to the moon surface and back to Lunar Gateway. If there were an incident on the moon, you would have— be able to get back to Lunar Gateway. and come back to Earth relatively quickly.

Right.

The Mars does not quite— we're not quite ready for that emergency backup plan. Because once you're on Mars, depending where the planets are in alignment, because as we orbit the sun, we could be closer together or further apart. The ability to escape if something tragic happened on Mars. I'm sure many of your audience have seen The Martian. So obviously, you know, these are hostile environments that are not designed for human beings. So we really need to look at the benefits and taking care of those aspects. But that doesn't mean we're not going to continue to go to Mars. I mean, right now the US is on Mars with a rover called Perseverance. And we flew a drone called Ingenuity last year on Mars. So think about it. We flew an airplane on another planet. I mean, that's pretty cool. So—

Yeah, that's pretty awesome.

We're on Mars. We're collecting soil samples. We're looking for where water would be because water is part of what would allow us to eventually have a settlement there and create a research lab because water unlocks both life because we need water, but you can also split H2O and hydrogen can then become energy. So that's why you see NASA and other countries are looking for where the water deposits are, because that would allow for us to build a settlement or a research center and create the energy that we would need to live there and create energy. But as we look at cislunar orbit, which is going to the moon, we can really see a lot of commercialization opportunities. You know, the government's role is to be there when it's high risk. and a lot of scientific, um, opportunity and advancement. And we've been in low Earth orbit for decades, you know, as NASA, the space shuttle, the International Space Station. And you can now see all these commercial companies that could really take that place of low Earth orbit and even into cislunar orbit. So the government's role can be to pave the way into going onto the moon, the technology needed, as well as what's needed to go onto Mars, as well as deep space exploration. You know, and that allows the U.S. and other countries to partner together, collaborating in resources and goals and objectives to best utilize the funding we have for those activities and allow commercialization to take in that low Earth orbit manufacturing and space and other activities. So I— you, you didn't ask about the role of government, but I thought I'd kind of share that. And I bring that in from my background from having been in the Air Force as that space program manager procurement person that looked at what is the real role of government. And the real role of government many times is to take on the things that are high risk, that there may not be a business case to do, but they're the right thing to do, or they expand our knowledge and research like Hubble and James Webb Space Telescope. You know, we're going to learn so many things from them.

Right. What, as we're wrapping up a little bit on time, what are you most excited for looking to be involved in and really be growing? I know you're involved in all parts of Space Foundation. You touch every single part of it. But is there, is there anything really specific you're like super excited to be working towards and working on? You need a—

You know, from—

no.

So one of the things I'm most excited about and that I am passionate and spend a lot of time in is mentoring because I'm passionate about mentoring not only the next generation but also the current generation. And I mentor a lot of entrepreneurs. entrepreneurs and innovators, not just in the US but around the world, men and women. And so I love that ability to give to the next generation to carry this on. And you'll see a lot of times I write articles, and at the Space Foundation we have a workforce development roadmap that has 5 steps. And it's about awareness, what we're doing today. It's about creating access points into the space industry. like the NASA Tech Transfer Office. It's about education, formal and informal. It's about building networks. And the 5th step is about mentoring. So it's awareness, access, training, connecting, and mentoring. And I'm passionate about mentoring because many times mentors can help create opportunities for those other development steps. The, you know, mentors can create awareness. Mentors can create access points. Mentors can help with training. Mentors can help you join organizations that can help you advance your goals and objectives. So mentorship plays such a huge role, especially in the space industry, especially for diversity and inclusion. If we want to bring more individuals into the space industry, we need to be out there advocating as role models, mentors, and champions to help create that pipeline. And so that is one of the areas I'm most passionate about. And if People follow me on LinkedIn, which you can follow me on LinkedIn. I post a lot of mentoring articles, opportunities, networks, jobs, uh, to help individuals find their way into the space industry.

Yeah, that's actually how I, I saw some of the stuff you were posting, and that, that led me to reach out, actually. So yes, anybody should be following. It worked.

It worked.

It worked.

It worked.

It works. It's all your effort is paying off. People are noticing. So, which is great. And it's great to have people like you sharing what's happening because I think that's, you know, the awareness part. We're still getting there. Like, it's still more people are aware, right? That's— I'm always— I've always been into space since I was a little kid. So I was one of those that read the NASA website deep into like all of their sciencey nerd stuff. But most people didn't. So it's, it's getting more and more people are, are really becoming aware. Uh, before we wrap up, your last thing here, is there anything else that you would love to share or mention to people who are interested in getting into the space industry, want to become more involved, you want to be— you're a country and, you know, want to start getting into the space world, anything you want to share to that?

Absolutely. I mean, Space Foundation has some amazing programs, but I do want to share with you some other great organizations like Women Tech Network that is open to men and women around the world, and they have mentoring programs as well as educational programs. They have their big conference coming up the 9th through the 12th of May that's virtual, and I'll be speaking at that about leadership as well as mentoring. You can also join the United Nations Office of Outer Space Affairs, has a program called Space for Women. That's a mentoring program, again, open to men and women. But the other great thing about UNUSA, the United Nations Office of Outer Space Affairs, UNUSA, is they have programs that relate to all kinds of activities such as space law, space and water, space and food security. So if you're interested in the space industry and some of these other activities, go to the UNUSA website, check out Women Tech Network. Another great organization to check out is Space Generation Advisory Council. It's designed for young professionals that want to be part of the space industry. They have scholarships to amazing conferences like our symposium or the International Astronautical Congress taking place in October in Baku. They also have mentoring programs. So there's a ton of resources on Google. You can always Google, but you can get lost. So I would recommend start with ANUSA. Women Tech Network, and Space Generation Advisory Council. And of course, Space Foundation is always here to be that beacon to help you in space.

Perfect. Well, and we will make sure for everyone listening, there will be links in the description so you can just click instead of Googling and hope you find the right place. So that will be there. And then, Shelley, you mentioned LinkedIn, but is there any other place that people can find you, follow you, any social media platforms you're active on for, for those that want to see what's happening and get your perspective as being someone deeply involved in the Space Foundation?

Absolutely. So both myself and Space Foundation are on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube. So if you're on those, we're there, and I hope you'll join us, follow us, because our goal is to help you find your way into the space industry.

Fantastic. Well, thank you, Shelley, for taking the time out of your day to talk about this. And yeah, look forward to staying in touch.

Absolutely. Well, it's been a pleasure joining you, and I look forward to seeing you around the galaxy.