The Affiliate Strategy Making Creators Six Figures

Kayleigh Rae Pavillard, thank you so much for being here and being really so open about this discussion that we're gonna be having about affiliates and what the creator economy is just projected to be like. I'm so excited to hear your insights. So thank you, thank you, thank you for being here.

Of course, thanks for having me.

For anybody that may be living under a rock and is tuning in for the first time and thinking, what is ShopMy? Can you give me like a Reader's Digest version of what is ShopMy and how it benefits anybody who joins?

Yeah, so like the one sentence pitch is, you know, we're building the like taste economy. So I think, you know, the main goal is to connect creators and brands together but give creators a space to share their recommendations and share their taste that integrates with a bunch of the social media platforms. And so they can really share those recommendations wherever feels most authentic. But the thing that like really powers ShopMy is the tech infrastructure behind all of that, and that funnels into what the brands see. So they're getting access to data on performance metrics, which leads to connection with brands and creators for longer-term partnerships. So Really just like the tool and space for connection.

That's amazing. And so when brands are getting that data, that data I'm assuming also is being shared with creators as well. Like they could see the backend metrics of how they're doing.

Absolutely. That was something really important to me and the team when we were building ShopMy is I think that big need and problem was that creators had such a challenging time articulating their value. So they had no idea like what metrics to surface to brands. They didn't have access to those metrics.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, like, as I'm sure we'll talk about, like we have micro creators with 5,000 followers moving hundreds of thousands of dollars of product, like, you know, a month where they would never have gotten on the brand's radar before because, you know, it was kind of like following is such a vanity metric, which, you know, I'm, like I said, I'm sure we'll talk about, but I think it's just, yeah, like I said, creators can articulate their value so much better. Yeah.

Well, I mean, let's just jump right in. So, yes to what you said. Amen to what you said, because I think one of the biggest misconceptions is that you have to have this huge following. And actually, one of our clients, she had, I think when she started, you know, working with us, she had less than 20,000 and she's making, 20,000 followers, and she's making, like, she's on target to hit 6 figures on ShopMy alone.

Yeah. Yep. That doesn't surprise me. That's like not an outlier metric.

And why do you think, why would it surprise somebody else and not surprise you? Like what is the misinformation out there that everyone needs to hear?

Yeah, I think, you know, for so long, you know, ShopMy has been around like 5-ish years now. And so when you look at this, the life cycle of the creator economy, while that's not that mature either, You know, really only like a fourth of the time have creators had access to the metrics that are really meaningful. And so it does take some time to kind of unwind. Like all people had was this following size and, you know, there was not a lot of education for brands. There was not a lot of education for creators. So the whole industry thought at the beginning like, wow, someone goes viral, that's gonna move the needle for the brand and brands would spend so much money and see nothing because nobody then could articulate like why they followed that creator because it was such like this fleeting moment thing. They were entertained and then they, they don't remember like why. And so I get creators come to me like, oh, my, my following like isn't growing exponentially. And I sit down and I'm like, well, let's look at your earnings. And those are, and I think like the goal should be for you to have a really deep connection with your audience. And so, if that is 5,000 people who can articulate why they follow you and are really invested in your recommendations and the content that you are putting out there, that is going to be so much more enriching for your business than 50,000 people who are like passive followers who maybe can't remember why they followed you in the first place because their intent to like actually purchase from you is going to be very low. I love that you said that.

And that's something like when I work with my private clients, I always say that what's the impact that every post makes? Meaning how is it benefiting your business? Because yes, you can go viral. Yes, you can have a million, but if you're not making money off of that post, you may as well be saying that you're treating social media as a hobby and not as a business. For somebody in like something that like a big Keyword here is authenticity and trust. What would you say to a creator that may feel a little cringy about selling or always posting about, hey, you know, come and shop and, you know, I'll send you to my shop, Monica. How do you, like, where would you find the balance between like that constant sell and really earning trust with your audience?

Yeah, I mean, It's really obvious to your followers and consumers when you're making a recommendation just because you can earn from it. You know, that was a big decision we made as a platform, and no other platform had done this, is we wanted to be an open platform, meaning you can link anything even if there's not a commission offered, because there might be several reasons, like a brand maybe just isn't mature enough and doesn't have enough stock or revenue to like set up a commission program. And, you know, there, there's so many reasons why they, they might not, but like, you know, just because they don't doesn't mean you shouldn't recommend the product if you love it. Like, there's so much else that can come from that. And like, when we can show organic creator interest, that helps convince those brands to set up programs. So, without getting down that rabbit hole, but I think like truly being authentic about what you're recommending and, and doing it consistently is so important. Like, you do have to get rid of the ego. Like, if you are thinking of it as selling something, then it's probably not going to resonate. But if you are thinking of it as like, I'm making this recommendation because this is something I own and love, this is something that's on my wishlist that I'm eyeing, then like it goes back to that like taste economy that I was saying at the beginning. Like, if you're just genuinely sharing your taste, that's likely going to resonate with people. And it shouldn't feel salesy. Like I get all the time, well, I don't want to be seen as an influencer. And I'm like, but you have influence over people because they follow you and they trust you and they like, you know, what you have to say. And so I think if you can like reframe it that way, it's helpful. Yeah.

And I love that ShopMy, anyone can join. And to your point, if you are, let's say a founder or, you know, you're not, you don't consider yourself an influencer or creator, and someone is asking you for a recommendation, why not toss them a ShopMy link, right? Like, it just, it just makes sense. For somebody that is starting off, and let's say, let's bring it back to the 20,000-person follower, and they're new to ShopMy, what would you, like, what are the top 3 things that you're like, Idalia, this is what you have to tell them to do?

Yeah, I mean, consistency is gonna be just like, that's like number 1, number 2, and number 3. Like I'd say, you know, for the, like the first 90 days when a creator joins the platform, like that's really where they decide like, is this gonna work? And it definitely comes down to habit. Like our top creators, like our, the 1% top performing creators, like linked 53 weeks out of 53 weeks, like, you know, over the last year. And so, You know, like the, the strongest earnings are coming from that consistency. So, I'd say that 3 things is like, make sure you're pinning weekly or, or linking weekly. Number 2 is like, answer the questions that are already being asked. Like, filter through your DMs, filter through your comments, and the people that are following you are telling you what you want. So, when people don't know where to start, I'm like, just start answering questions.

Mm-hmm.

And then, like, then you can go deeper on what's working. Like, I think at the beginning, breadth is really important. I think, you know, our stat is that in the first like 30 to 90 days, or first 30 days, like creators who perform the best have linked to like over 35 different brands. And you're seeing kind of like what works, and then you can identify what works and go deeper from there.

When you say consistency, and this is a question that I always get, so I wanna make sure that we're understanding what that definition means to you. What's consistency? Once a day, 3 times a day, once a week? What would be consistent for a ShopMy user?

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, that, that is kind of a nuanced answer depending on what platform, you know, you're on. I think it's easy to link in stories every day, especially with all the tools that, you know, ShopMy has to generate links and things. But it's like, you know, if you're a Substack creator, I'm not going to tell you to share links every single day if you're only posting a weekly Substack or a monthly Substack. And what I mean by consistency is you have to train your audience in terms of what to expect from you. So let's use that Substack as an example.

Mm-hmm.

If the last Substack you shared a bunch of links and made it really easy for your audience to shop the recommendations, then in your next 2 Substacks you make, you don't share links and then you go back to it. You're confusing your audience. You're not training them that they can rely on you to like, get them to that point of purchase and easily shop the recommendation. So, it's more about like wherever you're, whatever platforms you're on or wherever you're showing up to the audience, they have to like know that you're going to provide them the value of making it easy for them to shop what you're recommending if you are recommending something.

Got it. Love that. Something that you said was, okay, when you're looking at the top 1% of creators that use Shop My most consistent 53 weeks out of 53 weeks, Yeah. I think there's a misconception that affiliate could be a side gig or, you know, it's like that's not the main form of a creator's income. That is changing rapidly and something that we, we spoke about just a little and then I had to stop us because we were on a rampage. But brand partnerships, they're not what they used to be 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 3 years ago.

I—

let's please clear the air on affiliates, how they're basically taking over brand partnerships. Like what, what are you seeing on your end? How has ShopMy been successful? Because you do both. ShopMy does have the affiliate leg and you also connect brands with creators for formal partnerships. Talk me through what you're seeing. Talk me through what is the biggest misconception, what we should be looking out for.

Yeah, I mean like there's definitely creators where affiliate is their primary source of income, that is like a whole rabbit hole I could go down. Like, I'm always honest that those creators are not doing this frivolously. Like, they often have a couple people on their team. They're— there's a very robust strategy. They are like dedicated to this, just as dedicated as like others are to their, their day job. They look at it as a job. Like, they're thinking about it from 9 to 5 beyond every day and they're iterating on their strategy and, and, and like it is a business for them. Now, you can also make a ton of money from this like as a side hustle, but I think I get asked a lot like, should I quit my job? And I am like, please keep your job as long as possible. Like, because I think for a lot of creators, that's the reason they're so relatable and like people follow them anyway because it's like they want to see like what are you getting dressed to do for work or like, you know, all the things that people start following creators for. Sometimes I feel like when they quit the day job and it's only become a content creator, they kind of lose that special thing.

Yeah.

Like, just my advice on that is like until you are consistently matching in income what you're bringing in like from affiliate or this content creation business to what you are making at your day job, like don't even think about quitting. So, it's like a side thing.

Yeah.

I think when it comes to the brand partnership discussion, like, no, we've made so much progress since like, I think the COVID era, which is really what like bursted the bubble for me on like, we started to see the rise of TikTok. You could go viral overnight. You could gain millions of followers. But again, not with that depth of understanding why they followed you. And so brands were spending a ton of money to get that reach, but it wasn't impacting sales like in any sort of meaningful way. And fast forward to today, on top of like affiliate where they have like really in-depth data to see what's working, they also have a lot of in-depth data on like their paid media spend and like Meta ads, and they can actually forecast and budget.

Mm-hmm.

and get the ROI that they need to continue to grow those budgets. Like, there's a lot less experimentation today than there used to be. And so for creators, what I say is I'm so passionate about affiliate and what, what it builds because like you're so much more in control of your income.

Yes.

You're not sitting around waiting for that big partnership that you might get once or you might get 3 times or it's like some months you might have 3 and then you go several months and don't have any and like your income is, is, you know, doing waves. Like if you're consistent with affiliate, you're going to consistently bring in income and you can start to make projections for your business of like what you're going to do in revenue, how much time you're going to invest. And it also gives creators the license to be more authentic because you're not just like tagging a brand in hopes they notice and are going to want to partner with you. you actually have income opportunity right away. You're tagging the brand, getting compensated for the sales you drive. If that brand really resonates with your audience, that brand is going to get excited because, wow, you've already shown them you're a fan of the brand. What a great start of a partnership of like that organic connection. They already have the data to prove this partnership should be successful because you've shared affiliate links and they can build on top of Like something versus building on top of a guess, which is really nice.

Yeah. I mean, every— and again, we were talking about this before I hit record, but 10 years ago it was a crapshoot and you're being in New York City at Next and they're like, okay, we want to hire this, this. And here's the thing, I didn't have the data to give the brand. So it wasn't that I was hiding data. It wasn't that you just hired influencer because of the number of vanity metrics and the follower count and there was no real why behind it. And I always say that partnerships are twofold. One is you have to match the aesthetic or like the branding of the brand. And the second part is, can you show that ROI? And traditionally, as you know, brand partnerships used to reach out to, well, and they still do to some capacity, to creators directly or to their agents directly. And then it was a whole conversation. And ShopMy really makes that a lot easier. You know, when you connect with the brands, there is a template for the contract. You know, the SOWs are in this, scope of work is already out, the usage is already out. How important was it for you to build out just a document that could have fair terms that can connect the right creators with the right brands, match them, and start a conversation from there?

I mean, I think really important. What it did is it gave opportunity to so many more people, right? Because like where a brand might've not even known to pay attention to a creator, like it's getting so many different types of creators on their radar and like newer creators on the radar. So we're number one seeing so much more diversity in influencer marketing than we used to, which is such a win industry-wide and I'm so excited about, I think. Also, it was very challenging for people to like price themselves. Mm-hmm.

Right?

Because it's like brands weren't clear on what their objective was, right? There's a ton of objectives. And when brands partner with the creator, like sometimes is it to drive sales? Is it to drive brand awareness? Is it a little bit of both? And like the type of creator you're gonna work with depending on that objective as a brand. Is very different. And so the data's helped them articulate like, what are you looking for here? And helped like recommend the right creators. And it just like sets everyone up for success, right? Because there's creators that get hundreds of thousands of Instagram story views, which is valuable, but maybe they don't convert at the level of, of someone else. And it's like, if it's reached, then like brands are gonna, gonna contract that. But if it's like strictly sales, They might care a little bit less about the aesthetic matching like you mentioned, or kind of all the things. So it's just allowed people to make smarter decisions on kind of like who they're casting and working with and move through the flow because everyone feels confident. Like I'm being compensated based on historical data of what I've driven for the brand, knowing they're looking for a 3 to 5x ROI on this. And it's like you can do the math, 1 plus 1 equals 2, and everyone feels good about it. Versus just this like arbitrary throwing spaghetti at the wall and then a creator never working with a brand again because they price themselves too high and it didn't perform or it so overperformed and the creator feels undercompensated. Like we're trying to be like the Goldilocks and get it just right as much as possible.

Yeah. And that's something that I've always, and like it's so true. I mean, I think when we're looking at 5, 10 years ago, so many creators were outpricing themselves.

Yeah.

They'll get super excited. They worked with the brand once. Oh my God, I got it. And then crickets.

Yeah.

Crickets. And having that stability and really understanding what you can drive to that brand. And like how you said, what are, like, what are the KPIs? Is it that, you know, the aesthetics? Is it that you want that UGC? Is it that you want the ROI? Is it 3x? Is it 5x?

Yeah.

What's something— and something that you've, you've mentioned 2 or 3 times is COVID.

Yeah.

The big word.

Yeah.

This was built pre-post, like just around that really awkward time that is COVID-19.

Yeah.

What has changed from when ShopMy started in this era versus now?

I'd say just, I mean, obviously so much has changed, but I think for us, you know, when we started, we were Shop My Shelf. I don't know like how many people know that. And we were working in like beauty only. So I was literally reviewing like dermatologists and estheticians licenses to mark them as professionals and like let them on the platform. And—

Oh my God. Yes. I remember that. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

We had, you know, like we realized that the product was a good fit for other verticals.

Yes. Yes.

Started to get a lot of interest. So, we rebranded to ShopMy, you know, as we were going to expand and started opening up. But I do think like our beginning really holds true to our core of like a lot of what we look for today. Like, you know, some other platforms are really content-focused, right? Because they're a social shopping app and it's like, You're encouraged to upload the get ready with me's and, and videos. And in order to make the recommendation, there has to be a piece of content attached to it. And like, that is totally opposite of the Shop My philosophy. I think you'll see a lot of people who maybe aren't content creators, and there are content creators on the platform, and that's wonderful.

Yeah.

And they do well, but like, there's a lot of people that have expertise or some sort of like niche opinion where they, they are able to make recommendations. And so ShopMy has like given them the surface to do so. And I think we've seen affiliate become a lot more widespread and acceptable. Like ShopMy has done so much work to elevate this idea of linking. So it's not just this like thing that content creators do. It is, it is the thing that everyone can do. And I think that's what we're seeing, a lot more types of people participate in this economy.

Yeah. And oh my God, I literally almost spat out my water when you said that. I absolutely remember that. I had totally forgotten about that. And I think that something else was— and I remember in the beginning of Shopify, and I was saying, I forgot who I spoke to in your team, but it was trying to really garner the luxury brands and to kind of take away this distaste or, you know, this bad word that was affiliate, which was, I mean, it was like secondary. It was, you know, something that luxury brands didn't want to be associated with. Or even, you know, to your point, you know, the influencers were doing affiliates. But if I'm a founder, if I had a point of view, it was looked down upon despite it being vastly successful.

Yeah.

Share that journey because I think that the luxury world needs to hear this more. I think that luxury creators need to hear this more. I think that founders need to hear this more. I mean, when I work with private clients and they're like, no, Idalia, I'm not a creator. I'm like, but if you have a business and you have a social platform, I'm sorry, you are a creator. You don't need to do a get ready with me. You don't need to— you have to change the perspective of that. It's your recommendations, right? You're talking to your friend, you're recommending if you're getting those questions on DMs. Talk to me about that journey of luxury because that I think is something that ShopMy really, really excels at.

Yeah. I mean, it's pretty much the reason we exist. Like, you know, we have always aimed to have premium to luxury brands and get them into the space. Now, it's taken a lot of work. We're still working on it. We still have teams internally like that are luxury-focused convincing these brands to join. But I think the one thing you cannot ignore is data. And when CFOs and CMOs of these companies like see that there's this Substacker with a few thousand subscribers that is selling 13 $3,000 jackets every time she links How are you not going to try and amplify that and like find more of those people and build a program? So I'd say there's still a lot of work to do in the luxury space that like they're, they're very protective of their brands and aesthetic and that's fine. But I do think we're making a lot of progress and you can see that like with the brands that are on the platform, Bottega offering like 15% commission, Prada, Miu Miu, Gucci, like They are running programs now. Are they gifting 500 people a month and doing like all of the pulling all the levers that a sweater brand that sells at $300 can do?

No.

And they never will. But like they are building programs and it's very exciting, you know, to see.

It was great. I remember when Gucci signed on and that was wild. Yeah. Wild. What do you think the biggest convincing factor was to get a luxury brand and be like, okay, so we're opening this, this up to your brand and you have to give a percentage to the creator no matter who the creator is. What was the convince— like, what was the— what turned the light on in Gucci's head?

You know, I think a lot of things, but I think they— the luxury brands are so protective of like who's recommending them and As we've— the theme of kind of what we've been talking about is like kind of everyone's an influencer these days. And so if you look at, let's use TikTok or Instagram, like there's nothing they can do if I as a consumer went to Gucci and bought a bag and make a video of it and post myself with it online. So I think we've just realized that like you can't really control that. And again, the beauty of affiliate is like For brands, they are only paying on what converts. And so, it's like if somebody, you know, does decide to post and it doesn't sell, then it didn't cost that brand anything. And I think like that, that's a big piece of it with the luxury brands.

That's great. What are you most looking forward to in the future of affiliate marketing?

So many things. I like, you know, just the fact that so many different types of people are making those recommendations. I think, you know, for us specifically, we are continuing to expand our verticals. So, you know, from beauty, we went into the natural categories of like fashion and lifestyle and home and parenting. And now we're taking it even further where we've started to sign a lot of hotel brands and like even like restaurant partners. And like we're talking to, you know, like Republic Records about how we can help them facilitate all the work they do with creators to like help promote their artists and like gifting of concert tickets. And so I think you'll see a lot more experiences, right, to the ShopMy platform, which is very exciting because I think like, you know, I'd say probably like the biggest misconception and the view we have into like what creators are selling is for a long time there was this idea of like you had to have a niche. And that like, you know, you had to have your content pillars and in order to grow, you had to like talk about the same thing all the time. And like, that is not the case. Like we have an interior designer on the platform who's literally our top seller of lipsticks. And so like, you don't just kind of like find brands that work, like one brand, like you find several. I think it goes back to the taste thing. Like usually if you have great taste in fashion, it would, it'd be pretty surprising that you also don't have great taste in like how you're going to decorate your home. So, you know, more than half of our top creators' earnings come from like verticals outside their main vertical, which is a big number.

Yeah.

I think like when I was looking, it's like for our top creators, like the median was 43% of their like earnings came from their top department and then the rest is pretty dispersed across other categories. So, I I think, you know, just being able to earn from other aspects of life is going to be really exciting.

That's wild because I mean, if you are a fashion creator and you're only known for your outfits and then you're going to be talking about, I don't know, a restaurant or whatever it may be and having that data to back it up and not being afraid because I feel like so many and so many creators are afraid to stay in. I believe in niches. I believe in a niche as far as what is your personality? What are you getting out there? What do you known for. And to your point, if you're known for having good taste in clothing, the chances of you maybe giving me a room tour or telling me where you eat on the weekend, like, chances of me believing you, very, very, very high. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

And, and, and, and I, I'm glad you like made that correction. I do think it's important to have like a distincting factor. Again, it goes back to what we were talking about of like, why is, is your audience following you? But then like, you don't have to limit yourself to just that. Like, that's the authenticity layer, right? Because no one's going to believe like you don't have a favorite restaurant. So you might as well share it.

I had a, I had a creator I was working once with. It was, this was pre-COVID and she was a very big fashion. She still is a big fashion creator, stunning content. And I remember she had this huge deal with one of the biggest toothpaste brands. Huge deal. And, you know, she calls me and she's like, you know, my agent just presented this to me. I'm going to decline.

Yeah.

Like, or sorry, it wasn't toothpaste. It was a mattress brand, mattress brand. And she had just moved into her apartment in the city. It was this whole thing. I go, why would you deny a mattress brand? I go, do you like it? She's like, yeah, I mean, I might, I'm going to end up purchasing it. I just, my audience isn't going to like me talking about a mattress. And I felt like going into the computer and just shaking her up a little bit. I'm like, but that's something you use every day. That's something you would actually buy. That's something you can attest to authentically. Now, if you didn't like the mattress, please do not recommend a mattress, you know, because that's a very personal thing. But how freaking cool is it that a mattress reached out to you? You've never done anything home.

Yeah.

And now you're saying, well, I just don't think my eyes—

it's— yeah, I know. Well, that's like You know, the other big benefit of affiliate and like having that starting data going into the partnership because it allows the brands to trust in the creator a little bit more that they know how to sell to their audience.

Yes.

And so we've been able to like convince them to not provide the 20-page brief and like not require the back and forth of like approvals where we hear creators say like, Okay, now I am embarrassed to post this content because it's nothing like I originally created and it doesn't feel authentic for me to post. And so like we're seeing a lot of that go away, which is really nice. And ultimately then the partnerships perform way better because it's so much more authentic to the creator. But like before, brands had to be prescriptive because, you know, that was their best chance at something working at the time. And so everything's just elevating and getting better. Yeah.

I saw a video yesterday on TikTok and it was, I think it was like a minute and a half and it was this guy saying, oh yes, when you work with a, when you work with a brand, there's this huge brief. And I thought to myself, the best brands, the best partners are those that can see what a creator does well. There are restrictions, right? Like if you want a Reel versus a TikTok, if you want it under 30 seconds, if you have to make sure that you say it launches in May, like yes, Like there are those points.

We call those guidelines.

Yes, but long gone are those 5-page briefs which I used to do for influencer casting. Long gone are those. And thank God, I'm so glad you mentioned approvals because I've always been so anti-approval when I used to represent talent. Like, if you trust the talent, if you're capable, like you have to know who you're getting yourself into. Like, yes, give those guidelines. Yes, give parameters, of course. But Like, how is it when that creator has that freedom?

Yeah, like alcohol brands or supplements where like, you know, there's a ton of regulations on like what can be claimed. Like, sure, fine. But, you know, I think we were a little uptight for a while on like how to talk about a sweater, you know.

It was, I mean, I was literally, and I mean, I just remember, yes, anything like Botox, you have to put a whole paragraph underneath it, you know, making, yes, anything medicinal. Sure, but why were we getting medicinal on a J.Crew sweater? Yeah, like, why did everything— and I always used to say, like, if you're trying to sell this plug, you should not be, you know, it's a lot. You can't do this anymore. You really have to, like, speak to the plug, ask them, and make it you.

Yeah, well, and I think, like, that's where, you know, over the last few years we're finally getting out of the like what I, I'll, I call it the cloudiness, right? Because that's, you had those partnerships where it was like you had all this organic content and then this like, it's like, you know, when you're watching a TV show, you before when like we had cable and it was like the best moment was disrupted by like 3 commercials.

Mm-hmm.

That's like what Instagram started to feel like of like you were watching your creator's life and then disrupted by the commercial and then affiliate became a thing and I think there was, there was just this curtain to the public over like how creators made money. And for— there's some reason there was this desire to like hide and protect that. And I feel like the curtain's been opened and it's very obvious. Everyone knows like that it can be a career. It is a business and this is how they make money. And it's the public sentiment has really shifted of like, if someone's providing you the value of like, no one wants to sit on Revolve or Net-a-Porter or whatever and spend 5 hours trying to find the best wedding guest dress or like the best jeans. Like you're going to have 4 or 5 people that are similar style to you that you love and like they're doing the work for you. So consumers are more than happy that they're earning the 20% commission because there was so much value provided. So I just think the relationship has changed and That's a huge win because I think like that's why affiliate was like this dirty, weird thing for a while is because like there just wasn't a lot of transparency or confidence that like this was a career for people or a business and how they made money. And now that there is like, again, there's just so much more authenticity in the space in general.

Yeah. And when it comes to this, this kind of goes back to what we're talking about before. I'm going to tie it in here. There are some creators that are prostituting themselves on, you know, on affiliates, and they're just recommending anything to get, to get that. How can someone who is authentic, someone who does have genuine but a lot of recommendations, how do they make sure that they're not being categorized as, oh my God, here she goes trying to sell me again? You know, like, and it does tie into a question I asked last time, but it's more of a The curtain is drawn.

Yeah.

Anything is linkable now. If I genuinely am your best friend and I'm always like, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, versus somebody that is just, I want the money, I want the money, this is the highest commission, boom, boom. How do you make sure that you don't look like this person?

I mean, I, I just think like if your intent is wrong, you can't make sure, you know, that you don't like I feel like it's an annoying word to me. It gets so overused, but it really is like if you're showing up authentically, it's, it's gonna resonate. I think like such an amazing example of this is Ariel Charnas. Like she is an absolute machine. Like she's someone I'm saying like affiliate is her career, but like you look on her stories and like she is linking every single day a ton of things. But like it's providing so much value to her audience. They're like, they're asking for it. You know what I mean? So it's like she's sharing that from an authentic place of like helping people shop.

Yeah.

And it feels right. But like she's probably one of the highest volume linkers I know. And that's totally fine. You know what I mean? It just, it has to be like authentic to you and You know, if you're not being authentic and you're trying to seem authentic, like, there's no advice I can give you to like have it resonate better, you know?

Yeah, I love that. I used to represent Ariel and she's a seller.

Yep.

She's a seller. And I think she's somebody that always viewed this as a business, but something that she's done very well and she's done it well from the beginning is that she shows why she's recommending something. And she's wearing it, she's using it. You see her either in her closet or in the streets of New York or with her family. Like, it is in action. Everything that she recommends is in action. It's not gratuitous, it's not being thrown out, it's not being vomited over. It really is being thoughtful. And she has a lot of great suggestions, so I'm gonna give you some of the suggestions, right?

Exactly. It's like I'm— it's You know, like even just if I put my consumer hat on, like I am so grateful to not have to like spend 30 minutes searching for the best thing. Like where I know I can go to her and she's already done that work.

Yeah. Yeah. Is there something that, um, and you've been very kind and very gracious with your information, anything that I missed, anything that you're like, oh, you would, uh, you would regret if I stopped recording and you're like, damn it, we should have said this. Anything else that anybody should know about ShopMy, because I just, I don't want this to be only for creators. I'd want this to be an open platform for anybody.

Yeah, I think, you know, we touched on it a little bit, but affiliate is just the beginning. Like, the recommendation opens the door to so much more. Like, that's how you get on a brand's radar, and, and then it's like, okay, are they consistently bonusing you every month because you're a top performer for them and like they don't want to be prescriptive with like, hey, make a reel, but they just want to incentivize you to continue to recommend them. Great. Like, are they going to gift to you so that you constantly have like fresh product of theirs to recommend? Are they, did you make an amazing piece of content and now they want to like put paid spend behind that? Like, there's so many different ways and channels that brands can work with you and like affiliate is the best way to like knock on their door and be like, let's work together. And so, you know, I think it's just important to know that all that happens through ShopMy as well. The amount of times I like get on a call with a creator and they're like, wow, I had no idea all this other stuff existed on the platform, makes me laugh where they think like you can only link. And so definitely like building those long-term brand relationships is is our focus and like affiliates just the way in.

I just thought of something while you were speaking. Past posts.

Yeah.

What's the shelf life?

I mean, brands have what we call a social mentions feed on the backend in their tools. So, when a creator joins ShopMy and like links your TikTok or links your Instagram or links to your YouTube and you tag a brand, like write the brand's name or create an affiliate link to the brand, that then pulls into their social mentions and the shelf life becomes forever. So, brands might be looking to cast a campaign, again, like knowing their KPIs, and in the background, they can say, I want to see all of the Instagram stories posted about our brand in the last 3 months that got the top views.

Wow.

Or like that had the top sales, and like that's a huge USP for ShopMy for on the brand side, Is that we have that commerce data so they can sort by total sales, which like you can't do on a lot of platforms. And so the shelf life is a long time and like that is how a lot of brands are discovering and choosing creators to work with.

Because I remember that being such a friction and that's something that I know that ShopMind does really well. And I did want to say, because before shelf life, yes, Instagram Stories could be 24 hours, but a shelf life when you would post on Instagram, what it would be 48 hours, 72, and then after 5 days, like, you would not see anything. So now that we're seeing that shelf life increase, you could post something technically a month ago, still make affiliate from it. Brands can still pull that data, say, oh, she's consistent.

Yeah.

So it works into 2 separate avenues, doesn't it? One is you're still receiving that affiliate. Brands are still making their money. So it's a win-win. And also brands are still capturing that data for future use or eventually for, you know, formal brand partnership.

Yeah, exactly. And like, you know, that's the, the beauty of affiliate too is it's long-lasting and, you know, other, some platforms are better for this than others. Like YouTube is amazing for affiliate because you can include links in the caption and like their algorithm's more topic-based versus time-based. So, let's say I'm searching like smoky eye routine. I might be a year old but because it's topically relevant, like they're going to surface that video and then Like, the affiliate links are still there and active. And so, even like, while it might not be the best consumer experience, even let's say a product is sold out, if I click that affiliate link, the technical terms, the cookie's still dropping and you open up that window for earning. So, the earning potential is very high.

So, and again, let's, so for somebody that doesn't understand the cookie history, walk me through. If I love your lip gloss, which I do, and I click on it, but it's sold out, but it shows me something else, or I'm already in Sephora and I buy something else from Sephora, how am I— I'm obviously still getting money even though I didn't buy that lip gloss. Talk to me about cookies.

Correct. Because ultimately, the brand is like giving you the credit for that customer acquisition. So, you know, this will be very general. most brands offer a 30-day cookie window. So, meaning, I love your scarf, you share an Instagram story of your scarf, and I click on that link, you've now dropped that cookie saying like, you know, you are the referrer to me of this product. And as long as I don't click on another affiliate link to that same site for that 30-day cookie window, again, that is editable from brands, but majority of brands offer the 30 days.

Yeah.

You're going to earn, let's say I end up buying the earrings instead, or I buy the scarf and the earrings on the entire cart total because again, you're being compensated for that customer acquisition. So, that's where affiliate can become really lucrative for creators or like the archetype of a personal shopper or a stylist. Like, they perform so well because usually those cart sizes are really high and they have high AOVs. Like, they're selling luxury. So, again, that's what I was saying like in the diversification, it's not just content creators that are benefiting from this but you know, that earning potential is high because it's not just like in You know, you have the potential to earn on past recommendations as well.

I love that. Kaylee, thank you so much for your time, your wisdom. I think anybody who sees this is going to get immense, immense benefit from it. I'll be linking everything from ShopMy. Anything else?

Well, we've launched a few new tools that are more technical that I can tell you about at another time, but we have a new Safari extension, which is super valuable. I think one of the questions I get asked all the time is like, does this brand offer commission and what's the commission rate? So now, like on Safari on a product page, you get a little popup that says like, you know, 9% commission, 12% commission. So, you know, and can link right from there. So, it's a huge time saver, huge shortcut. And then the other's the Shop My Keyboard, which I've loved, especially as Instagram now allows you to add product links to to reels and carousels, which is a whole rabbit hole I could go down. We're so happy about it. But basically, the keyboard allows you to load your links right within Instagram or text messages or whatever platform you're in instead of having to go back and forth between ShopMy and that app. So, it's just, again, we're focused on efficiency, right? We want this to be as easy and frictionless as possible for people to earn. So, I'd say just keep your, your eyes out on all the features that we're launching.

Awesome. Thank you so much, Kaylee. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Appreciate it.