How to Navigate Your Finances Without Fear in 2024 | Cheryl Heller & Nikki Fraser (Ep. 440)

If you don't put in that effort to say, what is our cash flow projections? What are we looking at for the year? You're flying blind. So if we invest in this time upfront, then a lot of what we know is planned, and then you've got all this energy for the unknowns.

Getting a handle on your finances can be overwhelming, but it doesn't have to be that way.

We broke this down with Cheryl Heller and Nikki Frazier, and at the end of this episode, you're going to get out with the knowledge, the skill, and the support for you to start 2024 on the right foot.

Welcome back, everyone.

This is Liz, and this is Andresa Guidelli.

Welcome back to The Real Estate Investor Show. Cheryl Heller and Nikki Frazier, thank you so much for being on our show today.

Of course, thank you.

Excited to be here.

So Cheryl, this, this first question is directed at you. So it's January, right?

Don't we say happy January in America?

Yes, happy January. We don't say it, actually. I'm just, just playing I'm kidding you. Yeah, so it's January, right? A lot of investors are busy setting goals, getting going. There's momentum. So it's not news that part of their goals are probably looking at their finances and looking at their properties. But so, so we all know that. We know the importance of it. Uh, why do most people avoid that very thing? They're looking at their finances, getting a whole really handle on it, and most importantly, why What are the next steps to really overcome it?

Yeah, so I think there's actually a lot of like shame and embarrassment around financial information for women in particular, and I think that holds people back from taking a look at their numbers, their cash flow, what's in their bank account, how are their properties or other investments performing. And so I think in order to really kind of take that and do something with it, it's important for people to really just start from where they are. And the first thing you should do is look at your bank statement and look at what's coming in and looking— look at what's going out and make sure that you understand what all of the moving pieces are. And it is overwhelming if you try and think about it in the sort of like, I have to have everything right. I have to have my full financial statements. I have to know my revenue and my expenses, but just first step, look at what's there today. And I think one of the things that I was thinking about is when you think about working out, right? Like people have this like shame and because they haven't worked out in a long time or they're not really sure how to do it or they procrastinate, but nobody ever regrets once you work out and afterwards you feel better. So I think that's the same with your finances. You know, just get started. And once you do it, and once you understand, you'll never regret having taken those steps.

I love that so much. And I know we had conversations behind the scenes that I wish we had recorded, but we're going to do our best to, to bring, bring, bring this up. And Nikki, when we were talking about the, the exercise of looking at our finances and having a pulse, One of the quote-unquote unconscious objections that women real estate investors come up with is that they're not big enough or they're not there yet in order for them to create a cash flow projection or to understand where they're at. So for those women that are listening, independently if they have one property, two properties, or they have a large portfolio, why is it important for them to start thinking about their finances strategically, independently of the size of their portfolio?

Much along the mindset of finance, it's— it gives you the courage to make— to move through the year and really follow through on your objectives and goals, right? If you don't put in that effort to say, what is our cash flow projections? What are we looking at for the year? You're kind of flying blind. You're reacting to everything that comes through the door all year long, and that's exhausting. And as entrepreneurs and business owners, we have to create as much capacity to make decisions throughout the year. So if we invest in this time upfront, then a lot of what we know is planned, and then you've got all this energy for the unknowns because there's going to be stuff we don't know about. And then you're— and then it just provides a lot more energy for you throughout the year.

I think one of the biggest challenges, and I heard it the other day for— I was in a conversation with a woman in our community. And she said, oh, I want to make $20,000 in passive income. And she said, I own 10 doors. And then we were kind of probing and asking a little bit about what her current cash flow was. She had no idea, right? No idea. And it's shameful. It's embarrassing almost for people to even, number one, admit that. Because like, here I am an investor. So, there's a lot there. More importantly though, no one can get to a passive income goal if they don't know where they are. Right? So my question is, where, where do women begin? Where do people begin? What is the first step? I get the bank statement, but like, let's really walk it through because there's so much to it, right? That I think women and people just don't look. So what's the first step?

You know, a lot of people talk about like all these big systems and there's, you know, QuickBooks and a lot of others. You can just start with Excel, right? Like, and, and, you know, I, for my first couple of rental properties, I ran them all through Excel. And you just put the months across the top and put your expense categories and your revenue down the left-hand side. And then each month you look and see how much revenue did I take in and what were all the expenses. And once you have a few months under your belt by doing that on a regular basis, you can start to see where, where are the surprising expenses? Where are you spending money that you didn't know you were spending money? Where did you think you were gonna spend money, but you weren't, you don't actually have those expenses. And once you start to get that track record, you'll start to be able to predict what's going to happen in the future. And it'll be much easier to create that plan like Nikki was talking about so that you can, you know, have that space to deal with the unknowns.

So when we are talking about cash flow, right, there's two different types of, or I don't know, you guys know more than me for sure. But the ones that I know is like there is a cash flow for the property, there is a cash flow for the business. So, we're going to dissect this a little bit. So, for the cash flow for the business, Shara, I think it was you in our conversation, you were saying not a lot of people go back to their underwriting estimates and truly compare What did I estimate and what is my actual? You, of course, you have a stabilization period if you are under construction, right? And then you have the whole cycle. But after that, you can really start learning what was accurate and what is not. So, for those that are listening, why do you recommend that? What is the reason behind? Because they might say, well, it's already, you already passed. It is what it is. So, Why would that matter?

Yeah, I think that for me is from a learning perspective, right? I want to always get better at my underwriting and, and what I'm predicting when I'm looking at a property. And so I usually, after the first year, I'll go back and take my expenses and my revenue and match that up to my underwriting and say, where was I right, where was I off, and why was I off? Was there an unexpected expense, or Were my assumptions for, you know, what have you, like electricity or, you know, water sewer, were they just off? And that way I can learn better for the next time I do underwriting, and I know where I need to put my time and effort so that the next time around it might get closer and closer. I think the other really important thing too is that if we never look at what's happening compared to what we thought would happen, we don't know if that ended up being a good investment or not. And so we might want to make a different decision at some point in the future, do you want to sell it? Do you want to use the property differently? Do you want to take it from a long-term rental to a midterm rental to perhaps bring in more revenue? Um, all of those sorts of things. So unless you're looking at what actually happens, it's not— it can't inform your decisions on what you're going to do going forward.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, Nikki, please share.

I think the other thing too is don't, don't be too harsh in judging yourself when you're doing that. Use it as a tool. It's a tool to go forward, not to criticize what you did. And then it allows what Cheryl talks about, that ability to make those strategic decisions going forward.

You remind me of something that happened and we were running a Strive Higher event and one of the women, we felt she was suffering because she was— her assumptions about her short-term rentals was really like catastrophic. And when we're like, okay, tell me what they really are. And she's like, well, I actually don't know that. So I said, so here's the homework. Contact whoever you need to contact to get that information. And then the next day she comes to us and she's like, well, let me tell you something. That was not that horrible. Andresa Guidelli: So I think that what taught me is like sometimes we really think that we really sucked at underwriting or we are not doing a great job managing the property, but we actually don't know that for sure unless we have the courage to really look at the numbers by what they really are without making meaning of transferring that that meant about us and tackling it, right? But sometimes it's just like, oh, it's water. And I am assuming, I don't know, $50 per door or whatever that is. It might not be at all what it is. So for you, Nikki, I'll just piggyback on that. It might be a little, right? $50 here, a couple of dollars there, a couple of dollars here, a couple of dollars there. Is it worth the time to track all of that? Because you were talking about the mental capacity, right? And women are tapped out. So where should they focus their attention and where should they just like, that's, you just put that in autopilot and you review every 6 months, but this, this, and that, you should be checking every single month. Is there a recipe for it?

That's a tough one because it really depends on their business and what's like, where are their biggest risks, right? From a variety, from a change perspective going forward. But I think that it's, it's super important to get something that's good enough to move forward. Like, don't let perfection get in the way. And that's when a whole creating a budget and a plan can be so overwhelming. But if you just if you level up over last year, which maybe you had nothing and you've got something, and you're looking, then you're moving forward in the direction where you'll be able to make better decisions, right? So, but we have to track our expenses for tax compliance purposes. That's what we have to do, right?

So that's the bare minimum.

Yeah, that's the bare minimum. So now we're going above and beyond and, and saying, well, what else? What can we do to move forward? So Yes. Worrying about, you know, small deviations into the penny. People can get lost and feel good in that space. I'm like, pull yourself up. What are the things that are going to move the needle and help you grow your business, scale, whatever it is that's, that's aligned to your goal for that year?

I love what you just said about depending on what your biggest risks are, because I think that's a big fear right now for so many investors is that You know, especially ones that even have existing properties, right? Number one, they don't know their full kind of financial landscape, what's working, what's not. Number two, they're nervous and scared about buying something in this landscape of interest rates. And then number three, right, like a looming recession. And they're like, okay, what, what do I do next? But I love what you're saying. So let's, let's, I like to go there in terms of like the biggest risks. How does someone listening say, okay, What are, how do I even figure out what my biggest risks are so I can mitigate them?

So the power in scenario planning comes in, comes to mind.

Power of scenario planning. I like that term. Okay.

So if you're thinking of something that could significantly impact your cash flows, right? So say it's Cheryl and I are in short-term rentals and say it's, oh my gosh, this summer is not going to be what we thought it was going to be. Pull together a quick scenario. What does it look like if my revenues come down 20%? It's not a huge effort, right? You pull that way back. Okay, then where does that leave my cash position? Maybe I don't upgrade the kitchen on this property this year. Maybe I need to make sure I have access to a line of credit for my business when I don't need it. You get it when you don't need it so you could tap into it if you ever need it. So some of those things can really help. But again, then you're not reacting, you're planning. And when, when the decision comes up, oh, let's tap into the line of credit this year to do an investment if we feel it's worthy and it'll pull us up, you know, those kind of things. But if you don't do that in advance and you don't lay out your options and work through the scenarios, you're reacting and you're scared, right? You're really scared.

So Liz and I were talking this morning about what strategic planning means, right? And we have different views of what it is. For me, it's just, it is what it is, is strategic planning, right? She's like, well, for a lot of people that might be a big name, a big thing to do, right? I think for my life, everything I did strategic planning. So like, I don't know how else to perform, but I'm reading a book that I want to share with all of you.

I knew you were going to say this, Andresa. I'm like, she's going to talk about that book she's reading. I literally can read your mind.

I love that.

I just love it. Right?

You know that because I share with you already about that. It's like, I have this new book, so I got another one. Yeah. So it's called The Next Five Moves, by the way. I will put on the show notes for you guys. So it's asking any entrepreneur, it doesn't really matter what industry you are in, to think like a chess player. Very poor or amateur, uh, entrepreneurs to think about their next step or the 2 steps ahead only. So, the goal is to get to at least 5 steps of, okay, if it goes south, those are the steps that I will take. Because then exactly what you're saying, when you are in the storm, you already predicted, okay, if there is a storm, this is how I'm going to behave. So, you're not reacting to it. You're just executing a plan. We are not saying that, okay, how can I predict so many things? You are just planning and looking at the possibilities that, that can happen. Let's use a clear example, your short-term rental. Let's use 3 scenarios, the good, the best, and the ugly scenario, right? Ugly, zero bookings. Good scenario, you're break-even. Excellent scenario will be your highest cash flow ever. I don't think I will be like 100% booking. That's like, cherry on top, but what is like a very high scenario there. So those are very predictable, right? And what you can do with, with that, okay, if I buy a property, if I don't buy a property, what are my, my, my options here in order to keep my cash flow going? So this book is thinking, is making me think not just like one angle in everything. That I do, now I'm thinking, okay, this specific task, what are the next 5 steps, right? So, for example, the economy the way that it is right now, a lot of people are not buying a lot of properties. The numbers are not working out. So, one of the things Eliza are talking about is like, are they truly, truly optimizing what they have going on? Because many times they are looking for a higher cash flow, and the only way that they are thinking is that I need to buy a pro— a next property in order for me to achieve that. And what we are proposing now is you might not need to buy another property at this moment and put yourself in a situation that does not work. You might look at what your current portfolio is right now and dive deep in an audit to see if you are optimizing everything, if there is like hidden cash flow or hidden expenses or hidden income opportunities for your properties. And I want to get your thoughts on it. All right, Cheryl, so let's start with you. Where would you look in your current properties? Share a little bit about that. If you were to do an audit on your own properties, Where would you look for hidden opportunities to increase cash flow and decrease expenses?

So my properties are mostly short-term rentals. And so there are a few things that I would do. So first I would look at, are there any low-cost refreshes that we can do? Maybe, you know, new art or new bedspreads or new lamps and then have new photos taken because for short-term rentals, really people are purchasing your property off of, off of the pictures, right, that they're seeing on all these websites. And so I think that is a really key place to take a look at and make sure that your, your photos are fresh and, and show the best angles, and also make sure that your listings have good descriptions and keywords that people are searching on. So all of those things in the background have— they're not directly related to your expenses, but they might help boost your revenue. Then a couple of other things, we always talk to our property managers. So we use property managers on all our properties. We always talk to them and try and negotiate a little bit of a better rate if we can, or a little bit extra services as part of what they're providing us each year when we come to the end of our contract, so that we can potentially save, you know, some money from that perspective. And then just really looking at the expenses that you're spending and say, like, are there things that we don't need to do anymore? So sometimes, you know, we have houses that have, um, you know, all of the— on the TV, you know, do you pay for HBO? Do you pay for Netflix? Well, everybody these days really has their own accounts, and so maybe you just provide them a smart TV and then they can log into their own accounts and you can save some money from that perspective.

Nikki, any other ways that you would do in your own properties?

I have long-term and short-term rentals. And I think one of the things that I think about too is around, especially in, in, in more so in the short term, is you have to invest money to make money. Just like we invested in property to make money. Sometimes we might have to invest in marketing, right? And it's doing a marketing campaign to attract more bookings, reaching out to previous guests in the short-term rental space. Extending on the long-term rentals, offering extension of leases with smaller increases if you're to get more stability in the income. So those are just other things depending upon what you're chasing as to stable cash flows versus increasing cash flows versus reducing expenses too.

So I love what you both are saying. And where my mind goes is I'm thinking about the women listening going, those are great questions. And I say not but and When do I ask myself those questions? So, and more, more importantly, I need to get that on my calendar because it's not gonna, like, they're not gonna wake up on a random Friday morning and think about these strategic questions, right? It has to be planned out. So, you know, you know, Andresa Guidelli and I always talk about this, you know, we plan, we schedule what we value. And, and, and so many women value cash flow, but they're not scheduling time to strategically A-track. And then B, make some decisions based on that information. So what would you say from a timing perspective? How often? When? I'd love to get your thoughts on that because everyone listening could take that away and literally your action step right now is get that on your calendar. Get it, get that on the calendar. So how often would you say to do the kind of work you're both saying strategically? How often?

It almost depends on the kind of property you have. So for example, our short-term rentals, beach location, they're pretty full from, you know, late spring to mid-fall. So we always do in the fall, we'll do an annual planning session to say, okay, what do we need to do over the off-season where we don't have guests in there? Because there's not the opportunity for us to do a lot of those things when we have guests. And so that those properties really, it's just once a year. And some of the other properties that I'm involved in, we have a partnership meeting every quarter and we talk about what improvements we want to make because that's more of a, you know, we can make continuous improvements in those properties. And so that way we know what we're investing in and, and how we can, you know, use our, our excess cash or where we need to cut back a little bit.

I love that. How about you, Nikki? Any further thoughts there?

Yeah, to, to continue, we treasure what we measure, right? So it's, it's also kind of stepping back, not just at the property level but the whole business, and keeping an eye on that throughout the year because maybe there was the surprise, the HVAC needs to be replaced in one of your properties. Where does that put the cash flow? So don't be afraid as things happen to continue to look at that plan. You built it, don't set it on the shelf and forget about it. Use it as a tool throughout the year. So the more often you can look at some of those numbers regularly, I think can really help. But the strategic planning and that big effort doesn't need to be a monthly thing because once you've done it, You can just build on it. You've got the confidence because getting through it the first time is the hardest thing.

I totally agree with that. And I think one of our old podcasts, one of the people that we interviewed, they were saying that not necessarily when you improve a property, you are adding value. And I was like, what are you talking about? So what she was saying is that many times people improve a property, but they they went to the countertop shop and in order to get the cheapest slab, they got a very old antiquated style. The cabinets are also antiquated. The handles are old. So for Airbnb, I love what you're saying, Cheryl, because you're selling the pictures, right? So the pictures are going to tell me if that matches my own style, right? It's hard to pick the person, the guest style. So you need to be as updated as possible with everything that is going on. Forget those freaking signs that has written messages, okay, people? Take that out, throw in the freaking trash, because that is telling you that you're stuck in 1998. No, just kidding.

Nice, nice.

What?

It's true. It is true. People are not gonna pay the highest value to your property if you have those signs, home sweet home, or whatever that is, right? Because it's just, it's outdated. Nobody's using that more besides your grandmother. Just saying that. But be careful when you upgrade. Don't be— be very strategic. Not careful, but strategic. The way that you can do that, you're like, I suck at decoration, or how can I do that? Look at your competitors and simply copy their style. Who are the competitors here that are fully booked all the time, that have great reviews? What do they have? Book a weekend there, stay there so you can see what it is. It's not rocket science. You can totally do that.

One thing we didn't talk about, the, the power of tracking. And then in order to track, then you're able to see sort of patterns, right? Scenarios. I love that. And then make decisions from that, right? So that's all great. The one, one question in all of that is organization. In order to track and in order to make decisions, you have to have organization to know where to get this data. What is the easiest, simplest hack from an organizational perspective for those listening that are like, I don't know where this is, I don't know where that is. And then they spend all their time not really making decisions.

Are you talking about those people that have paper everywhere?

Yes, I am. Those lovely papers. I'm going to show you over here what I'm talking about. But no, I, I think that's a big part, right? We're, we're staying busy and it's not, it's not meaningful busyness, it's just busyness. And we need to stop doing that if we really want to be strategic investors and be successful in any market. So my question is, what is the easiest hack from an organizational perspective for those who struggle with organization?

When I started out, I would have a notebook for each property and all of my, you know, receipts or all of my statements, whatever would go in that notebook. So you knew where everything was. Now I use, if you will, an online notebook. So a software program where you can upload PDFs. I can send— if I get an email, I can send that email directly there and it goes into notebook to keep it organized. And I make sure that I have like all my login information for all the different like utilities accounts and bank accounts and all of that is all there so that I'm not searching for things when I need some information. So keeping it all in one place and leveraging technology and something that you can use both when you're sitting at your desk at home as well as on your mobile device in case you're traveling and need to get into a certain account or need to look something up. That's what I've found really useful.

I think leveraging technology is key, right? I mean, to me, it's also, is there someone in your business that can help you? Because if you spend all your time and energy getting the data, then you're not spending the time actually strategically analyzing it. That's, and that's to your point, Liz, on the busyness. So I'm a big proponent of getting resources folks to help you get that data so you can look at it more regularly. And to Cheryl's point, there are so many great online tools. You don't— you sometimes QuickBooks might not be the right answer. It's too expensive. There's others that are less expensive, automatically connect all your bank accounts, your credit cards, use different credit cards for different properties to keep it easy, things like that.

I love that.

I love that.

And that's a really great point. The word— two words I just wrote down was doing versus thinking. And as— and you really be successful this year, everyone listening, the pendulum has to be more on the thinking versus the doing, right? So, write a percent down right now. How much time are you spending doing versus thinking? And how do you get to increase the thinking? So, which is a great segue to what we're about to share. Both of you have been amazing and both of you're gonna be teaching a workshop at our regional event on February 10th. Really excited about this session. I know you— it's gonna be a workshop, right? So, it's gonna be really hands-on. Right, that, that women can kind of get into the, to the nuts and bolts of where they are with their business and where they want to go. And we're just so excited about highlighting both of you and your expertise, but getting their hands wet. It's not going to just be theory, right? Andresa, if you want to share a little more and then we'll—

Yeah, because I think that we cannot solve the world's problem in today's episode, right? So if you want to dive into like a hands-on, this is an opportunity. Our regional event is going to be in Austin, Texas. On February 10th. And Sheryl and Nikki, we had those conversations in different times, but one of the most common scenarios that women face is that when they are having their meetings with their accountant or CPA, they are the ones leading it, right? And we don't know what we don't know. So on this session, we're going to dive in and really make sure you are prepared with the tools and the skill sets to have confidence about the strategic thinking ahead instead of avoiding, like, having conversations with your CPA about what happened in the past. Did I get the picture right, Sheryl and Nikki? Yep.

Perfect.

Yes, absolutely.

And you guys going to get a chance to speak with them about what they can get more about it. So, Sheryl, what if you were to explain in your own words what they can expect out of that session.

Yeah, I think like Liz was saying, really hands-on and we'll provide some templates and formats that they could use to help them analyze their information and then even get into questions or conversations that they should be having with their CPA, their bookkeeper, you know, whoever helps them with their financial management so that they can be well-informed and really be, you know, make sure that they're getting what they need from those individuals.

Yeah. Hopefully we'll also get some thinking time to figure out what those obstacles are in our business too. And so you may not be able to solve it in the moments in the day, but you've identified a plan, right? You know what the obstacle is. You can just work, you can work through it.

So if you guys were like to describe like who should come to, to, to be with, with you guys, what is the— what's happening that women's head and what— because many women like, I don't know, is this for me or not? Who is this woman?

I think if we're thinking about real estate investors that are really looking to go to the next level, you're taking your business to the next level, you don't— you want to get out of that reaction, fear, exposure to control what you can control and know that you're ready for the unknowns. Anybody wants to level up and spend some time focused on that aspect. I think you will get a lot out of it.

And it's a safe environment. We talked a little bit offline about it, that women feel so ashamed to work on those things because many times we don't understand the lingo as well. Right. So all the handouts that we're going to be given and maybe a lot of things upfront for you to do the work really move the needle forward. This is a hands-on workshop where you're going to get out feeling that you made progress and you're not feeling behind. I think that's the shift. That is the shift of thinking that we want to achieve when you come to our regional event. You're gonna get out feeling that you made progress and no longer feeling behind.

Yeah, it's gonna be super powerful. And that's just one session. We have a whole day full of really helping Uh, you know, women say, okay, I've set these goals. I'm, I'm, I'm making progress, but do I really have the clarity and the focus so I can really achieve my goals this year? And that's really the thing.

We're gonna, we're gonna dive in.

We're gonna dive in. It's gonna be, it's gonna be amazing. Hope you can join us. Be there on, uh, February 10th. Awesome.

Yeah, we're gonna put the link below, uh, on our show notes for all of you.

Awesome. So Cheryl, where can everyone listening learn more about you?

My website is pillarone.com. Pilaronecfo.com. So it's spelled P-I-L-L-A-R-O-N-E-C-F-O.com. And you can email me at Cheryl, C-H-E-R-Y-L, at pillaronecfo.com.

Nikki, my website is nextkeyservices.com. You can reach out to me through the website, sign up for our mailing list. We've got some free downloads and things. We do some free online events.

Awesome. All this information you guys can find on our show notes. Now we're going to transition to our fabulous 3 questions, and the first one is, what's the most powerful book you ever read? Let's start with you, Cheryl.

So I would say The 4-Hour Workweek. It's a pretty old book, but it really was the, the book that got me thinking that there are other ways to make money and do the things that you want to do in your life other than working 9 to 5 for somebody else. Nikki?

So many. I listen to so many. Um, a recent one in the last year, 10x is Easier Than 2x, which is all about really 10x in your life, not just your business. I just love that. I love it. It's really good.

The second question is, what's the most powerful routine that you do to create a financially free and balanced life, whatever balance means to you?

I work out 6 days a week. And that—

look at you, Cheryl.

No, Cheryl, in the morning.

Damn it.

If I don't do it first thing in the morning, it doesn't get done. And I feel like at least I've done something during my day, even if the rest of the day goes off the rails. And the other important part of that is that I— on Sundays, I sit down and I schedule it out and I talk. I put on my calendar what classes I'm doing. Am I doing strength? Am I doing cardio? So that it's— there's nothing to think about in the morning when I get up. I'm still half asleep. I just, you know, put on my workout clothes and go.

I love that because then— because I don't know what I'm going to do today, what classes I'm going to do or where I'm going to go, what clothes I'm going to wear. Then there's no excuse, right? I'm going to follow that, Cheryl. Check on me.

I'm checking on you, Nikki.

After spending 20 years in corporate, the last 5 years, I get to take my kids to school and it's just I love it. Sets me up for the day.

So.

Right. Isn't it awesome?

I get to. Even if it's at 6 o'clock or 6:30 in the morning, I get to. Right. I love it.

So I always share that, like taking Lorenzo to the bus or picking him up at the bus was like, this is great. Yeah, I'm here. He knows I'm here every day.

Yeah, right.

It's such a small but very fulfilled. Yeah. Sensation. Last question. Which women, famous or not, have inspired you the most?

Share. So I think there are so many women, but who I would say today is Sara Blakely, the founder of Spanx. You know, she kind of created this product. She went into a male-dominated world. She didn't let people tell her it couldn't be done. She figured out how it could be done. She grew this business and she did it all without taking herself too seriously. And she just has such a great outlook on life. Thank you.

It has to be the power of the women in my family. I come from a large Irish family with a lot of strong women, and it's not one individual woman, it's really just the power of the pack.

Awesome.

I got chills. Why?

Wow.

Because it's the power of the pack.

Love that.

And the power of the pack is why The Real Estate Investor exists. So we really encourage you questions, follow-up, further thoughts from today's episode, tag us, tag Cheryl, tag Nikki in our, in our Facebook community. And come out to our regional event on February 10th in Austin. It's going to be amazing. Cheryl, Nikki, thank you so much for being on our show today. Really appreciate your time and sharing your wisdom.

Thank you.

Great to be here.

Thank you both.