Advising Students, Marketing a Network, and Learning AI Along the Way: A Conversation with Jennif...

Hi, and welcome back to another episode of The Human Side of AI. My guest today has been at Austin Community College for 12 years. She advises students on their academic paths, and in her other role, she runs all the marketing and communications for TexAN, the Texas Academic Advising Network, a nonprofit that serves advisors across the entire state of Texas. Two completely different jobs, one person, and as you will hear, they're a lot more connected than you may might seem. Jennifer is someone who I've known for years, and I was really curious to get into how she's using AI across both of these worlds and what she's used seeing her students use it. What she shared about the catch-22 of advising in an AI-shaped job market stopped me mid-conversation. This is The Human Side of AI. I'm Flora, and this is Jennifer Browning. Let's dig in.

Thank you so much for being here. Um, we go way back, and we actually met at Austin Community College years and years ago, and you have really grown and expanded your professional career there. So for people who don't know you, how would you describe your life and what does that look like right now? Like, where are you calling from and what do you do professionally? What do you do personally? Tell us a little bit about that.

[Speaker:COLLEEN] I'm Colleen from Austin, Texas. So I do work at ACC. I'm a Senior Area Study Advising Specialist at ACC. So I work in academic advising, as you said. I've been at ACC for about 12 years now. Is it 12? Yeah, it's been 12. Time flies. Counting the days. But yeah, I've been in ACC for about 12 years. I've done different roles at ACC, but now, right now, I'm an academic advisor. I've been advising for about 5 years now, I think 5 and a half, um, years now. So been advising for a while now. Um, but yeah, uh, I work at ACC, and then I also am the VP of Marketing and Communications for TexAN, which is the Texas Academic Advising Network. Um, it's an elected position. I've been serving for the past 2 years, and then I just got re-nominated again here in February, so I have another 2 years on that term. Um, as VP of Marketing Communications.

So at JMAI, we work a lot with small business owners and sales and marketing professionals. And, you know, we, we, we learn together how to use AI to really give time back in our lives. So I feel like we could have so many conversations here, but I really want to focus on your role with Texan. So can you tell us a little bit more about what that looks like for you?

Yeah, what my roles and stuff is for Texan. Yeah. So as I said, I'm the VP of Marketing Communications, so I run all their social media networking, which is Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, all of those for them. I put out their monthly newsletter, organize, put out like webinars whenever we do webinars, any communications that go out through Texan, any marketing and stuff like that goes through me so I can put it out there, out there. So really working with getting out there for conference stuff for Texan Conference, because we do an annual conference yearly. We do webinars, we do drive-ins for regions and stuff like that because we divide the state up into 6 regions. So working with region chairs who run webinars and drive-ins through each region throughout the state, really any of the, any of the communication stuff that goes through for the business, like for Texan, the nonprofit comes through me and what gets posted on the web and all that.

So is there a duality in that role and your role as an advisor at the college, or are they really separate worlds?

No, there is a big duality with it. They're very actually connected, um, is what I would say. They complement each other very much because like advising, it kind of keeps you grounded because you work with students and like gives you that insight of like real challenging of what people are facing. And you also get inside, like if students are facing this challenge, most likely advisors are also facing this challenging in the world. Like, things are going on and stuff and affecting who people are. Um, so it definitely gives you an insight of like, if this person's going— if this is happening to a student, it's probably happening maybe to an advisor as well. Um, hey, your parent got sick. I bet somebody out there, somebody else's parent got sick that's affecting them. How do they do their job and stuff like that? So it does give you like a perspective into like other things that are happening in the world and people and stuff like that. Um, It also gives you like support. You support students a lot with their issues and stuff like that, but we're also supporting advisors and TechSan, and that's the duality of it is like you get to see what needs to be supported by supporting students, but also supporting advisors who are going through the same thing of supporting students. So they do kind of intersect with that. Everybody needs support in juggling it, essentially. It's really like supporting students by supporting advisors to day-to-day and mix of student conversation, problem solving, and then shifting into completely kind of the different mindset, a little bit on the creative messaging side, but it is all there eventually to support both demographics, both the advisors and students. But it is a little bit different on like the creative side versus the students conversation side.

No, I love that. So, so really staying on that, you know, that conversation about, you know, creative creativity and, and your role as VP of Marketing and Comms, What does that actually look like for you behind the scenes? I mean, I know you shared a little bit about like what you're responsible for, but what if you had to kind of create like a standard operating procedure for what that role actually looks like? Talk to us a little bit about kind of what those tasks look like for you and how you implement them.

Yeah, it's a lot. So we do have a weekly newsletter that we put out on everything that we do at Textin, or not weekly, monthly. Quarterly newsletter that goes out every time, every quarter for that. And then we also solicited, because we do scholarship opportunities for Texan for like students that are publishing their works for dissertations and stuff like that for higher education. So we also put out a journal of public work as well throughout the year. So not only we're doing monthly newsletters of everything that's going on between like regions and the state with stuff like that, so we publicize that on a quarterly basis. So generating that, generating the newsletter, also just publishing other things that are happening within the network. So we also have a mentor-mentee program that goes on through TexAN for connecting advisors to advisors. So we have that that we publish on weekly. And then we also do webinars, as I said, throughout the year. We usually have someone come in and do speeches or we have people that do presentations in these webinars. We're finishing up a 3-part series right now. I think it's May 1st, actually this Friday, is the part 3 series. So advertising that, getting students, getting people in the network to actually engage and want to attend these webinars and get that professional development with Texan and like creating that advertisement of like, hey, this is going on, posting it on the website, getting out the, like the medium, making the flyers and stuff like that and actually showcasing what the webinar is going to be about. And getting that message out is really what I would say day-to-day is. But like, creating content is what it comes down to, is creating content for all the social medias and stuff and getting communications out.

No, I, I, I love that. And I love that there's like so much crossover that— because even though you're in this very niche, niche space, I mean, I talked to so many small business owners and they're just doing the same thing, right? They're just trying to get the word out for their product or their service, right? So, um, you know, kind of going back to this, this like niche that you, you work with, um, you know, what do you think about reaching people and getting those specific audiences to show up?

Like, how hard is it to get them to show up?

Or like, yeah, like how do you target just the, that specific audience that you're looking for? Because it's not like you're just, you're not throwing a wide net, you know, you're really looking for other advisors, right, in higher education?

That's—

that feels pretty niche if you're outside of that world.

It is pretty niche when you're outside of that world. Like, there's definitely some challenges with it, especially like with our conference and like getting institutions to pay for some funding and support for the professional development and stuff like that. That's definitely a niche. I mean, a lot of what we do is like word of mouth. Texan is 30— 33 now, will turn 34 in February. So we are almost a 30-year organization and stuff like that. So, we do have advisors that have been working in advising for 30 years and plus. Past presidents like recruit people and stuff like that. So, we definitely use word of mouth. Somebody has heard of Texan usually at a university and they'll be like, "Oh, hey, did you hear about this?" And they'll end up connecting and stuff like that. And we end up building like the email databases and stuff. Like even if you leave Texan, we still have your email on file. So, we send you an email letting you know if you want to join. But a lot of it is word of mouth and like connecting that way with other people that have had experiences with TechSan and sharing their stories. It's also trying to capture that audience and talking to people, but it is a lot of word of mouth of other people that have worked in advising at some point, spreading it, of connecting and stuff like that to try and build this community.

Nope, word of mouth is like the best compliment you can have, right?

Yeah, exactly. I was going to say we're also registered, connected with NACADA, which is like the global community of advising. And then like we also partner with TACUSPA, which is the Texas Association of College University and Student Personnel Advising. Like we do, we cross-conference for, we sponsor their conference, they sponsor our conference. We usually try to go to NACADA. We've got a NACADA rep on our board. So like we also do the global community as well. And then we're also trying to capture like graduate, graduate students that are graduating who are trying to go into higher education, get the word out there too. Yeah. And table them as well besides just the word of mouth at universities.

So like any, any business or any service or any product, like you guys have an ideal customer profile and it sounds like you actually have more of them than I would have thought. So, you know, talk to me a little bit about like where AI has shown up for you in this, in this work and Are you using it to promote or to write or plan or organize? Like, what does that look like for you guys or for you particularly?

Yeah, no, AI has definitely become a, definitely a tool in my workflow at least, especially with like brainstorming and like reflecting ideas to help generate content, like ideas and stuff like that. Messaging, making sure the messaging is like the most messaging and like the best way to communicate and also reach your target audience because there is such that niche marketing and stuff like that. Want to make sure that the hashtag hits on their social medias and stuff like that. And it is something that they would actually want to see. But like just mapping out our marketing campaigns, the timelines of the campaigns, when do we need to release this to make sure we have people registered by this time?

Both like a workbox schedule, like creating a schedule for you.

Exactly. Creating a whole schedule and stuff like that. But Yeah, really, that's for text and then like also both for advising, like creating a timeline for case management and advising as well. And like, when do you need to send it out? What's going to generate the most clicks? Especially because like, I think now they're limiting businesses on like only having 5 hashtags when they post sometimes with like Facebook and Instagram. So like, what are those 5 hashtags that are going to hit the most with it? Also, like a lot of editing, sometimes they can give you creative ideas like, okay, what if you did this? So sometimes AI plays into that, but it really just like speeds up the process and like gives you a starting point where you can build that spark or like build off of it, either both creatively and the content. Like what's the best caption that's gonna hit the most audience and when's the best time to send out that? Post or whatever to capture it, or people are playing on their phones the most at lunch break while they're working in advising, or is it really they're only going to check social media at nighttime? So do you need to only post at night?

Really using it as a strategist.

Yeah.

What has surprised you personally about using AI and marketing and, you know, in this particular marketing role that's outside of your full-time job?

Ooh, I would say honestly the biggest surprise is how much like mental load it reduces and how much mentally like you don't have to be, I mean, honestly the caffeine coffee as it kicked in sometimes you don't have to be that creative brain sometimes. It gives you that instant person to like bounce an idea about it. You don't actually have to have somebody in the room to bounce that idea about. You can be like, hey, what if I did this? And it'll show you like, this is what it's gonna look like if you did this. It's really like having the luxury of like sitting down with a complete, like, clear mindset, but you're not having somebody to bounce that idea about if you're not clear about it. Um, it bridges that gap. It gives you momentum on days like when your energy is focused elsewhere. So if like my energy is focused on advising, I don't have time to be creative, it gives me that opportunity, like helps me get into that creative mindset faster. Um, it gives you that easy start. It's definitely most valuable, like, part is like having that bounce back of like, if I have to focus on advising for ACC stuff and then switch over really fast, something to bounce an idea, creative idea off of, um, AI is there to help.

I love what you said there. It's like it kind of gives you back your time to really jump from role to role where like you don't need that like amp-up space, that warm-up space. You're kind of able to just like prompt it and then get you in that space immediately. And like, what an opportunity to give yourself some time back.

Yes, exactly. That's what I was like, it definitely mental load. It gives yourself your mental load of like your time back and stuff like that. Um, and it's like, you picture like an old, like when you're in a conference room with somebody, you usually have that one-on-one back with somebody, but now can you actually get somebody to sit down and their time valuable as well, but instead you just have a computer that can bounce those ideas off of instead of having to have a face conversation with somebody, pull them away from their project. It gives you that mental load of like, hey, what if we did this, but what if you did that? But you can just have a conversation with AI and they can do that too with you instead.

Uh, yeah, you're truly working with it as a collaborator.

Yeah, I love that.

Um, no, it's funny, my, my mom's actually here visiting us and she asked me today, she was like, can you teach me how to use AI. And I was like, well, it's just like not that simple. Like, you know, what are you using it for? Like, you know, what, what platform are you going to want to use and like for what purpose? And, you know, and I've been thinking a lot about, you know, did I just kind of brush her off? Like, you know, what is the best way to, like, quote unquote, teach someone how to use AI? And I keep coming back to this idea of like, if we can just get rid of this idea that it's this, this alternative Google option and really look at it as a strategist, a collaborator, like, like your own assistant, you know, how would you communicate? How would you prompt? How would you give direction to another employee working for you and, you know, use AI in that, in that, in that capacity, right? So, you know, I want to flip it back to your day job now. And, you know, you're advising students every day. How has AI changed that work?

[Speaker:ROBYN ANDERSON] Um, it has, but very like subtle. Um, right now it hasn't changed too much in the day-to-day stuff. Um, I mean, it does help like drafting emails eClear and stuff. Like it'll give you, help simplify the information to students. 'Cause just because like I think it's clear on my email tone of voice and stuff like that, an email can be very different, especially with students. Some students have different backgrounds. Some students need it to be very, very clear step-by-step instructions. Um, and just making the complex processes a lot simpler in that terms. It really hasn't replaced any part of advising just yet. I feel like it's definitely coming and we're on the lookout for that and seeing what it's going to be and what AI is playing. And that's really one of our hot topics that we talk about even at TechSan and the conferences, like where is AI going to play eventually in advising? We're still trying to figure that out, but we know it's coming. It's going to have to play a part because AI is on the rise and stuff like that. But it hasn't replaced anything right now that we like, it's not at ACC, or I haven't heard from any other people at Texan or in the network of Texan about AI operating at their school or anything. But I know it's coming at some point. But really like more settable ways, like crafting those emails, organizing, getting that caseload management like schedule set and stuff like that. How to get people to click on their emails. That's the biggest hassle with students is like actually getting them to click on the emails 'cause they get so many emails. So like what's the best subject line? and we tend to see like to find that if you ask a question like, how are classes going, people will click on it. Or are like, as long as you end the subject line with a question, that usually engages students more. So like learning that was a process, but that was thought through. AI is like more questions we ask through subject lines. So like coming up with those to get students to click on those emails and actually read those emails. Is what I would say. Yeah, good point.

So, so talking about your students, how are you seeing them use and talk about AI, and are you seeing them use it in ways that impress you or concern you?

Both, honestly, both. Um, I've seen students do it in a very creative way. Um, like I've seen them break down concepts and like have them make study guides. Like, hey, I, I don't know what to study make me a study guide for this test or write a practice test. If I don't, if they do have a study guide, write me a practice question, create those question banks based off the study guide, what would be asked? And they can use it as a study tool for that. Or they've used it to build me a study schedule. I work this many hours, this time and stuff like this. How do I optimize my day to study and sleep and all of that? And they built their own schedule that way too, as well. Um, it's really like learning how it to support them instead of using it to do the learning and stuff is the biggest thing. That's where we see the drawback is that people will try to use AI as their own work, which is not what we want. It's— that's really the thing. Like, I've had a student who— I have a computer science student who's actually built his own AI program to write his programming homework, but he's still not writing the program. When it comes down to it, he's not learning how to write the program. He may know enough to write the program to write the program, but when it comes down to it, he is not actually writing the code.

I mean, but he, but he's a— I mean, to me that's kind of like—

it comes up—

that one, that one's pretty cool.

It comes up as a debate. Technically you're not writing the code, but you did write the code to make the code. So it's a big argument.

Still getting what he needs.

Is that cheating? Is that not cheating? There's a gray area, but when it comes out of it, technically you didn't write the code, the computer did. So I've seen the good things and I've seen the, like, the positive. I think we're still kind of honestly figuring out what good use really is in higher education and what, like, what practice it is. But I do think as long as you use it as more of a tool and, like, use it as a way to study material, you still need to do the learning, you still need to do the writing, but you can use it to make those study guides and use it as those practice things, create those fake tests and stuff like that. For students, but don't pass AI off work as your own. This is what it comes down to for assignments and stuff.

That's fair, that's fair. So, so you kind of touched on this, but as someone who guides students on their academic path, how do you talk to them about AI as a tool versus AI as, as a shortcut like you just, you mentioned?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's really terms of ownership. Um, I think you— it is a tool think of it as a tool, not as AI is going to be doing the education part of it. AI is not there to understand you. You need to understand the better ideas. You can keep using AI past when you pass a class, but like you need to know enough to, as we said earlier, bounce off AI. Like you need to know this is what I need for the creative stuff, but that stuff. So you still have to do the education part of it and the learning process. But like when it comes to shortcuts, like you can use it to study, you still need to be the one saying, am I actually learning this or am I just turning something in that AI made? Make that distinction like there. Yeah, yeah, fair.

So you've been, you know, quietly building something really impressive over the years and that's, you know, that's your, that's your skill set, that's your career. That's, you know, these, these additional responsibilities that you've taken on. And what do you want people to know who are watching your career or even, you know, listening to this, and thinking, you know, where are you headed with this? And I know that's kind of like an open-ended question, but, you know, I'm curious personally and professionally, you know, I'm curious as, as, as a host on a podcast, but also as your friend, like, where do you see your career evolving? And is that more on that academic side or that marketing side? And talk to us a little bit about that, if you don't mind.

Yeah, for sure. Honestly, if you straight out ask me, I don't know what's going to happen in the 5 years, but I do really want like Intention to be intentional and really growful about what's next and stuff, even if it doesn't like always look loud or lenient or linear or whatever. I'm interested in like continuing and building that inner, like connecting advising and the leadership and communications and finding a way to build it together. Really just to build a stronger community and like have more meaningful work. I would like to move up into advising into a management role at some point, or maybe marketing is where I want to head, but I really, even if it is marketing in the college something, but definitely moving up in higher education is my ultimate goal. I don't have every step mapped out or what direction and stuff like that, but like definitely creating an impact and not just not just with what I do now, but like keep building on that and helping others. When it comes down to it, that's really what it is, even with the marketing and with being an advisor, it's helping other people and continuing that. That's really my goal. I'm not clear on how that is, but like as much as I can help, if it is in a management role, if it is in marketing, but like just helping people is really where it is and making lives better and like how much I can help other people with it. Is what I would say.

I love that. And, you know, I love that you, you mentioned helping people. So, so, you know, what, what tech stack has helped you? Like, what are your go-to AI tools?

Oh, I mean, I'm probably a classic person and do, like, I would say ChatGPT for sure. Um, I mean, That's a classic. And most people, a lot of you use that. I mean, Google has a great AI function too. Even Canva has a good AI function and like generating content for marketing. Like if you want to see an image or whatever, they can also create it there too as well.

There's—

oh, I can't think of the name. There's another platform that I use, but it's like saved on my screen and now I can't think of the name right now. Okay. It's just like you save the link and you just like, yeah, click there. It's there. But yeah, ChatGPT, Canva has some AI content stuff, creating images and stuff like that. I mean, Google's got an AI search now, like everybody's got an AI search and what they'll put out there. I think Facebook and Instagram have AI, like everybody's got an AI platform at some point. But yeah, using all of the different types.

Where do you see yourself growing in your, you know, your AI use and how you're using AI and and, you know, both of your roles?

Oh, um, I think there's a lot of growing use for it. I think the more we're learning about AI, the more, um, we can use it and like what we can do, what we can bounce out of it, like what prompts you need to use to get the right answer and stuff like that. And learning that from AI and, um, knowing where that is, like there's a lot growth with it. Interesting. It's kind of a catch-22 with us on the AI and advising side because like right now, um, in the state of Texas, we're looking at a 7-8% unemployment rate for computer science majors, but we're advising these people to take computer science classes. Um, so like you're definitely focusing, forcing it, like forcing them, hey, you should get better at programming AI stuff because AI is the future, but also AI is actually hurting them in advising. So it's a catch-22 system with that where like you want to encourage them to do it, but also there's a downside in employment for computer science because of AI taking it. So it's a little bit of a catch-22 system. You're advising students to do this major, but there may not be a job market. You're hoping there's still going to be a job market with AI. So that's also fun as well.

Kind of navigating like kind of the heart versus the head.

Yeah.

And I'll tell you something, I was so excited to figure out— I mean, I'm in this space. I am sitting right here to some, you know, AI thought leaders and I am still like in the 1950s, right, in so many ways. And which is fine, you know, and I, and I love really just everyone kind of at their own pace. Right? Um, this week though, so I recently, I personally did a switch from ChatGPT to Claude. Um, and I did it honestly more for like values. Um, I, but you know, that's, that's aside from here. But it was very easy to just like prompt my ChatGPT to train my Claude. It was super easy, the easiest breakup of my life. And, um, so I started using Claude and I'm like I'm kind of like the tip of the iceberg with Claude, right? Because I like— I'm not using Claude Cowork yet. Like, I'm not really doing nearly as what I could be doing with Claude. But anyway, I'm just kind of using it as a ChatGPT alternative, right? So I've been doing this migration of CRMs and I've been switching from one CRM to another CRM and in my, in my professional life, and I was really collaborating with Claude as a strategist for this migration. and I found out that I could connect my CRM to Claude. And rather than me jumping back and forth into these CRMs, I could literally prompt Claude to make the changes in this CRM for me. And I can't tell you like what a win that has been for me. Like I can literally, like I don't even have to log in to HubSpot for me to look at my tasks, move deals to opportunity. Like it's been just such a game changer. And I feel like I'm so behind in times in so many ways because it's like so many people have their AIs integrated into their, you know, different platforms. And this was the first time I've done it, and I'm like so excited about, you know, what else I could have it just jump in there and do with— obviously with my— with, with me holding its hand, right? Like, I'm not— I'm obviously not gonna be like, send all the emails, um, you know.

But learning how to prompt AI to do that is the biggest thing right now. It's like learning how to do that. Yes, to get the most out of it.

And, and honestly, like, taking that risk too, right? Because I, I— if you had told me like, oh, you can connect it to your CRM, I kind of would have been like, I don't want the robots messing with my CRM. But I don't want to mess with my CRM. Like, I would so much rather just ask my AI assistant to do the thing I want done in said CRM. I mean, it's just been like a game changer. And honestly, I just wanted to share that with someone because I'm so excited that I'm finally using it in this, in this kind of this level up.

That's the thing. Like, there's so many different avenues and use for like what you can do with AI. We're still learning as it is a process and like I would say both of us are pretty tech savvy and we're still trying to learn out of it. So obviously this generation is going to be way light years ahead of us when it comes to AI. They're going to be pro just like we were like scared of the internet, but like we're still trying to figure it out so we understand it and we can maximize it. But I know like next generation is going to just be like, this is a piece of cake. But that's the biggest thing that I know is like learning how to use AI effectively across the board just for everybody.

Yeah, no, well, I don't think there is like that cookie cutter, you know. I don't think there is an AI for everybody, right? And I think it really, like, you know, even going back to that conversation I had with my mom, like, well, I can't just like teach you how to use AI because like, what are you using it for? And like, what do you want to use it for? And let's kind of start from that. So anyway, well, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing, you know, um, you know, how you're using it in your, in both your professional worlds. And, um, I'm excited to see kind of what sparks, you know, what this conversation sparks in you. And best of luck with everything and both your worlds and all your worlds. And I appreciate you sharing your journey with us. Thanks, Jen.

Thank you. I appreciate it. Awesome. Hatsune.