From War Zones to Replacing Seven Developers: How Resilience Built a Tech Innovator

Hello and welcome back to The Human Side of AI. I'm your host, Flora. Today's guest was one of the most extraordinary origin stories I've ever had the privilege of hearing. Hence, the episode's a little longer than typical. She was born in a small Soviet republic between Azerbaijan and Iran, lost her father to the Afghanistan War at 4 years old, witnessed ethnic violence between her neighbors at 8, and was on the last plane out of Russia before everything changed. More than once. By 21, she had two engineering degrees, a scholarship to Boston, and a one-way ticket toward a life she was building entirely on her own terms. She went on to spend 20 years in the luxury lighting design industry across Paris, Moscow, and Europe, eventually starting her own company, filling 5 patents, and rebuilding an entire dev team single-handedly using Claude after 7 engineers walked out the door. She's now the CTO and a product lead of a construction tech startup with over 100,000 people on their waitlist. Her name is Alicia, and I'm really hoping I'm saying it right because she deserves it. And what she shares with us today about AI, about methods, about the window that's closing, and about what it actually takes to use this technology to build something real and lasting genuinely changed how I think about this work. This one is for every woman who's ever had to start from scratch. Let's get into it.

All right. Yes. Okay. So, um, short story about myself. Let's hear it. I'm, yes, I'm born in Azerbaijan, which is ex-USSR Republic. And, uh, and actually that's how all my life start to be absolutely mess because to be born in this place, which doesn't exist anymore because of the war after war after war after war, it's pushed me through the whole world, actually. And I had to move in Russia when I was 10 because of the war. And, and I, at 20, I left Russia to go to United States because I won a prize to get additional education to my 2 degrees that I obtained by 21 in United States. And I was paid MBA. I got to Boston. And, um, actually the whole story is like this, you know, pushed by the, um, difficulty of the society, of the world, of everything, but actually overcome each time, each one of them as a winner. This is, I, I see this as a, as a, through the whole story of my life. So I was like, girl from coming from nowhere, absolutely no like family pedigree or something like this. And I was just like pushing and pushing each time I pushed. I, I just pushed a little bit. Too fast maybe compared to others, and it's got me to some completely other level. So I found myself in Boston and after I found myself—

Wait, I wanna, I wanna slow down just a little bit.

Yeah.

Because you just covered a lot. Um, so you said you were born in Azerbaijan?

Azerbaijan, yes. It's in the, it's, it's a little republic, uh, on the, and I was born in the small village between Azerbaijan and Iran. Iran, you know, the one you have war now. So the place, which is like absolutely small village because my father was military and, um, he was Soviet military and he was positioned there, stationed there. And, uh, when I was 4, he disappeared because of the Afghanistan war. And my mother was, had to raise me and my brother all alone. She was very young. They married, she was 19. So she had me, the second child, she was 23, and she had to raise in like another country. And there is no Social Security in Soviet Union, actually didn't exist at all. It's not like this. No. So she had to work like 3 jobs and coming back at 1, we were all like, wow. So not to get some pity story, but, um, something which is actually kind of the background, which I think. And helping me all, all of them, of course, because your background, your story. Yes, of course. Like my mother, who by her example showed me and my brother, you work hard, you work hard, you work hard, you get to the point when you succeed. And, um, she's very entrepreneurial. I had my first job when I was 14. And my brother also was the same age, so we were very like, uh, positively competitive in my family and very entrepreneurial. So, and it's always just like build, uh, build my, my way of thinking. And I think—

so why, why was it from Azerbaijan to Russia? What made, what made you cross the dot?

Uh, because, um, uh, at the end of '80s, I was born in the '80s. At the end of '80s, there was a war between Azerbaijan and Armenia. Oh, okay. And, uh, yes. And, uh, it was, was very violent. There was like a lot of people like, uh, cut by the knife on the streets. And, uh, and, um, uh, uh, Azerbaijan on the, during the Soviet period was a very luxury place of Soviet Union. Why? Because it's, uh, it's very rich as a republic. It has oil, it has caviar. And so it's a very rich republic during the Soviet period. And lots of people were sent to the capital of Azerbaijan, Baku, during the Soviet period, like Rostropovich and all these very, very famous cultural people because there was opposition to the Soviet regime. And they couldn't just shut them up, so they sent them there to Baku, the capital of Azerbaijan. So like this, they can have their life, but outside of the main capital of Soviet Union. And this created very rich multicultural city between Azeri who are not Muslim actually, now they kind of, but they're The real culture is coming from Persia. They are more like, you know, they're, they're drinking wine. Their women are not veiled, you know, very respectful for women, stuff like this. And there were lots of Armenians in the city of Baku and lots of Russians and Jewish. So, and this was like very multicultural, very high education, very, very beautiful city with the history and stuff. But then when the Soviet Union was collapsing, there was this movement of separation, nationalism, and Azeri who were very, very negative. They wanted to take the land that they had in Armenia. And so they started to fight over the land and it turned out very badly. And the worst part, because during the golden period, there was lots of family who were mixed. Armenian and Azeri, uh, Russians and Armenian. There was so mixed and there was so crazy stuff happening. And I was like, oh, 9 years old girl. So like, uh, husbands were exchanging wives. So because I married Armenian and you married Azeri, let's just exchange wife and part our ways. This kind of—

You're talking the '80s.

That's not that long ago.

It's not that long ago. And, uh, so, uh, it's terrible stuff. And like in the school, uh, lots of teachers were Armenians because this kind of like culture of the female teachers, you know, there were lots of teachers were Armenians. It's kind of like domestication between them. And students at school, like middle school, were beating their children who were, were beating their teachers who were Armenian. Were raising them and teaching them since they were 6-year-old boys. This kind of violence, absolutely horrible. So bad. And, um, uh, and we had to leave because a lot of Russians were also like kind of considered as a protector for Armenians inside Baku. And so we had to leave and my mom was, um, uh, dating, actually she was fiancée of the Armenian guy. Who was a brilliant engineer in the space industry, and we had to leave. And the first, she shipped me and my brother, uh, to my grandparents and we spent one year without my mother, uh, trying to figure out what was going on. And actually I had amnesia. I don't remember very much of this crazy stuff that happened there. I was so traumatized. I, I just erased one year of, of my life. And, um, I remember this, I never saw the winter in Russia because in Azerbaijan it's hot. Okay. And, uh, I remember this, I don't remember anything like several months before leaving, nothing, just zero, absolutely empty. And I remember we get out of the train and it's winter. And the first thing I remember, this what woke up my mind, is the beautiful tree on the train platform covered with ice, you know, like this, uh, Winter Wonderland. Absolutely. Yes, Winter Wonderland, something that I never saw, absolutely beautiful, covered with ice, like huge, like, you know, 15 meters, like Russian tree covered with ice, like sparkling under the lights of the, you know, the train station. It's something that wake up my brain. It's the first thing I remember during this period. And then, so, um, so this is the reason we left Azerbaijan.

Um, and thank you so much for sharing that. I mean. You know, I'm familiar with like the Cold War. I know about the wall coming down in Germany in the '80s, but that was obviously like not on my radar at all. And I imagine a lot of listeners don't know much about the history between Armenia and Azerbaijan too. And most importantly, it is a big part of your story. So thank you for taking the time to share that.

And because I think lots of your listeners are in the United States, actually this kind of war was induced with the help of United States because it was kind of the way how United States after the Cold War was almost done, they weakened USSR by implementing those separation and little wars inside USSR. So USSR was ripped from inside by those little, not so little, but the violent local wars. Yeah. It was one of the reasons and everything is interconnected in this world history after World War II. So it was one of the strategies United States implemented, Afghanistan War, which is weakening very much United States and helping separation, separators and little local war to get started inside USSR. And this was absolutely the final straw on the economic weakness that they have. I'm not blaming, so of course, United States, but it's interesting to understand that actually it's never stopped, this kind of plays and games. And now when I see everything like this world politic and Putin with the horrible things he does and all this, like I was witnessing these games since I was a little child. I see through them and like, oh my God, this is that. It's helping to really like keeping a check on reality, not to get into the rabbit hole of medias and all this. Because one of the shocking thing I witnessed there, between two houses, you know, apartment complexes, on the roof, there were like Azeri guy who was shooting Armenians and on the other roof were like Armenian guys who were shooting Azeris, okay? And then there was like, ding, ding, ding, lunchtime. Okay. And they go down and they go to the local shop and they stay in the same line to buy cigarettes and food. Crazy. Crazy.

And you saw this before you were 10 years old?

Yes. Yes. It was like I was 8, 9, uh, and the 10, and by the 10 years old, I get already to my grandma.

And, um, tell us about life in Russia. What was it like from 10 to 20 then?

So life in Russia was very adventurous. It was '90s, like, you know, it's really like, I arrived, it's '80s, '80s, '90s, okay? I arrived, it's '90s, '90s stuff. Absolutely crazy shit. Like, the falling of USSR in '91. Okay, so, what was like, one revolution after another revolution. The previously prohibited entrepreneurship started to be allowed. My mother had the, um, you know, when you register a company, you have like the registration number. Okay. And, and my mother had the company registration number 1. Wow. In our region, you know, they went to the, the special like city hall thing or I don't know, tax thing to register the new company, private company. She had company number one. Crazy. So, and, uh, this is how it was. And it was like this, like, woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. It was rollercoaster, uh, for 10 years. Like you, the, you started to do something, there is like hyperinflation. Then you like, you get, uh, uh, uh, according to do this, you get something like, okay, you sorted it out. We're gonna do this because this, then there is another changing of government. And then they're like, oh my God. And we get so many times absolutely like wiped out to the zero. And started again from scratch and starting over something new. So by the age of 20, I was absolutely like a veteran of all this thing, you know, the revolutions and the financial really like crisis is like crazy. And you see all these people absolutely changed. They were poor, now they're rich. And then before they were rich, now they're poor. And I've learned a lot. Uh, um, very, very interesting moments. Um, I remember, um, oh, my mother was very entrepreneurial. She had like, okay, we're gonna sell this, we're gonna buy this, et cetera. So we survived, I mean, like alone, my, me and my brother and my mother, we survived, everything is fine. And, um, uh, the region where we, uh, stayed with my grandparents, uh, very industrial. It's like one of the industrial center of USSR, uh, producing like, um, motors for the ships, trains, stuff like this. So this is where I got very nice education because the engineering education was very, very strong there because 70,000 people in one city was working in one factory. Imagine this. Wow. This kind of center. Okay. So, and when everything collapsed, I witnessed it with my eyes. The people were like, And starving, um, nothing to eat, no money, you know, economy stopped, no money circulating. Okay. Yeah. And, um, people survived because they had little plot of lands and they could grow some foods and, uh, all this stuff. Some entrepreneurs like my mother. So we were fine. And, uh, what I saw with my eyes is that, uh, Women, mothers of, uh, my classmates, my friends, my girlfriends, my friends, um, came to my mother sometimes and they asked my mother to help to teach them how to be entrepreneurs.

Oh, beautiful. What a wonderful education.

Yes. And how to start, how I can do, how can, how I can help my family to survive. This was the housewives. During the Soviet period because their husbands were engineers in the big factory with big salary within Moscow, the tip-top. And then several years, like absolutely like absolutely house, nothing to eat. He's like, how are we going to survive? They eat potato that we grow during the last summer and stuff like this. And I saw, I witnessed those exchanges, how my mom explained, then you go there, you get a little bit of money, you have so little, you have to start, you just go to, you buy those paintings there, like, you know, boxes full of paintings on this. uh, uh, gross selling, you know, and then you sell them here, some, something which people like really need every day because they need to eat, they need to dress themselves, they need to buy like, uh, toys for children or books for children, something. You start to, and I witnessed those women who never been in, they were housewives, how they were flexible compared to the men.

Wow.

The men were like, absolutely stubborn, proud. I cannot move, I cannot change. I'm proud engineer, I'm proud director. I'm, you know, and, and the children are starving and the wives, they were like, I have to do something, I have to do something. And they went and, and, um, this, uh, selling and buying stuff, uh, what's, what was happening. It's very heavy job. The women had to, had to like heavy bags and it's like, And they did it for the families. Like, I really, this was how I saw women are stronger and more flexible than men. Because when it's hit hard, they sit and they do nothing. They don't feel responsibility for their family actually. And the women do.

So, so at this point you really, I mean, you get this, this real, real world experience just watching these wars play out and all of these changes. And the one word that really, you know, comes to mind here is like resilience, right? You're truly taught resilience and, and you're taught the, the power of being an entrepreneur before, I mean, almost before anything else, right? So, so talk to us.

Okay.

So you mentioned you, you at that point from Russia at, you said at 20 you went to Boston.

Yeah. Yes. 21.

21.

21. Yeah.

And you mentioned that was because of a scholarship. Talk to us a little bit about that path.

So, uh, in, in Russia, we, uh, normally we finish school early, and I was even earlier than this. At 16, I finished my high school, uh, with a, with an honor, like honors, and I get to the university in our region, um, uh, engineering university. Uh, I get, I started my first degree in mechanical engineering and, uh, automation in production. So it was, right, so it was very broad engineering, uh, faculty with a lot of IT. Okay. And, uh, so, and when I was in my third year, um, in the same university, there was an economical department in another faculty. And, um, they said that some students can actually apply to go there as well to get the second degree in parallel. So, uh, I spent day on engineering and evening on the economics and marketing faculty. So by the age of 21, I had 2 degrees. Uh, and, um, so both with honors, all this. And the, there was, uh, it's just at one time, actually there's another lesson I have learned. There are some chances you need to take them. It's like, like really like Really lottery tickets. I was just like going from one faculty to another and there was a guy standing at the corner and said, oh, there are some Americans that are passing by. I know you speak English. Do you want to participate? There will just be some interviews. I'm like, okay, I have nothing to do in between day and the evening. I have half hour to spare. So, and, um, and this is how I found that there is some program from United States. They're going through university to university in Russia. They're interviewing some students or like almost graduate students. And it's a very big competition. And by the end, you can go to United States. So they pay your MBA there. So I participated in this interview. There were 5,000 students interviewed. So I mean, you need to know in Russia, very, very few students really speak English by And at that time, who would participate in the DUDE? There was something like top of the students. So 5,000 students, then was a second round, 350, and then there was the 27 finalists. We went to some woods, campings. There was mostly like psychological, uh, filtering mostly. Okay. Imagine 21, 22 years old. Boys and girls in the woods and the camping for 3 weeks. So with some foreigners talking about something that we never saw in our lives, it, it was kind of like survival and, you know, mental probably probing who can actually handle.

Yeah. But your life prepped you for this.

Yes. Yes. And, uh, oh, some crazy stuff happened, you know, like everybody sleeping with everybody. So, uh, yeah. Even if it's in the woods. It was a fun story. We had even beer, like real beer, beer, real beer with us, you know, the camping. And because Americans like, oh, we're going to have beer with us. So, and by the end of this, 6 of us went to United States. They, everything paid. So I get this election. When they say my name, I felt like I won an Oscar or something. Yeah, you were proud. So I get to the States, to Boston. I spend there time in Bentley College and the program, what they needed, they needed young people to come to United States and not to stay actually. This was very important because the purpose of the program was building the bridges between new Russia and United States. To have new talents build economical bridges between two countries. So they bring new talents, they give them education, they give them understanding what America is, how does it work, how business work, but they need to come back to Russia to be this kind of start of the bridge. So I needed to say the program, why do I go, what I'm gonna study, What I'm gonna do when I come back to Russia. And because I was working in my mom's lighting shop while I was doing my studies, I was like, lighting industry, like lighting design doesn't exist here. So I'm gonna teach project management. I'm gonna learn project management, lighting design, and then I'm gonna come back and we're gonna make our family business more like successful. Okay. Okay. So, except that I met a French guy when I was in Boston and ended up in Paris after this.

Okay.

Okay.

So you land in Paris after this.

Yes. Yes. And I landed in Paris after this. And, uh, uh, it was another crazy story. He's young and young, absolutely like young love, student love. And, uh, in Paris, 2003, everybody, every young student or postgraduate is going through the 9 circles of entrepreneurship. Okay. You go, you have entrepreneurship free or like minimal, not even minimal wage, like minimum, minimum. So your parents still give you money to, to, to, to, to, to have food. And, um, and in our, we, we, we got married because I had the two, I needed papers to say so. And we were in love anyway. We had 83 friends of his, like some members of my family. Very few. And, uh, all of them were unemployed. So I arrived, very young, very, very bright students, unemployed. So internship, internship, internship, internship. This is how the French, like, system works because once you hire somebody, you cannot fire. This is social security system. Okay. So before you hire somebody in France, you need to be absolutely sure, like absolutely sure. Because to fire somebody is like, it's absolutely like you pay so much money and so much trouble. So that's why everybody just gets so much socle, surface. I arrive, I don't speak one word of French. I get used, like even in school, in 3 months I get a job in the very, very famous agency who is doing lighting design for all the Chanel, Cartier, Dior, Musée du Louvre and all this. All our 83 friends from from where they were absolutely like, how it's possible? How it's possible?

Well, why do you think it was?

Why do you think it was possible? Um, I, I, I, I, I saw something that's, uh, a very niche, you know, I was marketing myself correctly. It was very niche. It's, there are not enough engineers in, in, in French. System in general, because education is built like this. And I arrive, I speak English, I'm engineer. Uh, I start, I propose myself, I'm gonna do free, uh, for several months. And 3 months after I started to do free, there's like, no, you stop. And this is your contract. You get to the airplane, this is your project. Then you start to do stuff. And, um, so I just, I, I, I was immediately seeing that, that if I go where everybody goes, I would have so much concurrence, but this was the place that was starving for people like me. And I was like, I'm just going to be, and I'm going to prove them, uh, I can do very flexibility, very hardworking. And I got immediately the contract, a very nice paid job with travels and packages and stuff. And, um, so how long were you with them? With that company? Yes, almost 5 years. Okay. No, no less. 4, 4, 4 years. Yeah, 4 years. And, uh, um, the, I traveled United States, lots of very famous projects and Paris, all over Europe. Some projects were in Asia, but my, my boss liked Asia so much. So he went always to the final. You know, switch the, turn on the switch, want to go to Japan. But I told you, no, I'm gonna go even if I did all the projects. Okay. So, and in 2007, we started to have a lot of clients in Russia, oligarchs building beautiful palaces and villas. They were inviting French architects with whom we work for the huge projects, a lot of boutiques. Started to really install in Russia, in Moscow. Like, uh, we had projects for Baccarat, the stock, Chanel, and all this. And I was spending so much time in Russia because Russian speaking, and of course they sent me there. And, uh, and, uh, after one year of spending so much time, and my husband was proposed, um, to be expatriated to Russia as a Russian speaking, well, Then by that time he had a job, uh, banker. And, uh, I was like, I came to my boss, uh, by this time I was a second, I quickly became a second person in the company. And, um, I told him, Stefan, um, I propose to you that we open the, um, the office. Like an office. Yeah. In Moscow. Uh, but I want to be partner there. And he was like, no, you're 25 years old, you're too young. And, uh, you continue to, to work with me as employee and no nothing. I'm like, okay. But I'm gonna go anyway because my husband is leaving. So I'm gonna go. You realize this? Yes. So, okay. And this, I, uh, uh, I resi— I gave him my resignation and I left and I opened my own company in Moscow immediately when I arrived. So at 26, uh, started my own company in Moscow. I spent 4 years in Moscow and I actually did what I promised to my program. I brought my lighting design and the standards and the French touch and all the standards, you know, to the Moscow lighting industry. I did very, very big projects alone. I'm kind of very unique because I have very big productivity. I can do stuff which normally like 10 or 15 people do. And, uh, I, I, I did lots and lots of projects. So all I, I assembled very like modular teams, like for this project and do this for this. And then, uh, and then I come back to France after 4 years because my, my clients, uh, in Moscow were sending me back to do projects in Switzerland and in Paris. Okay. Like, okay. We're like, okay. Uh, yes. And while I was in law school, so I did my lighting design and I had like lots of, lots of very big, nice projects. I also was, um, invited and I was participating, uh, so it was a startup for the lighting feature production, like development and production. Some guy, some millionaire, like, I want to produce lighting pictures, so it's LED revolution, let's do it. And they found me some, I don't know how, and I was occupying, uh, the post of creative director, product executive, actually, which was more like, like product executive. So I, I created products, invented, uh, everything about the product marketing and it. And, um, this is where I get, uh, on, on one of my invention, this company got 5 patents just because I went for 3 days in Milan in some convention. And I was like looking around and I come back and like, we're gonna do it like this, like this, like this. And it was 5 patents. And very nice startup, huge success. They get like kilometers and kilometers of very, very successful lighting picture. But then I moved back to France. I stopped with them. And so I was moving back and forth. And this is how we come to your question, how did I get to AI? I think of it. Yeah. And, uh, yes, yes, yes. So I was doing lighting. It have been already 20 years I'm doing lighting. I'm moving back and forth. I have clients in, in France, French clients in Russia. I have Russian clients in Europe and all this stuff. And, um, I get this kind of little by little, this, um, uh, lots of investment in French and for European luxury houses. Producing locally in Russia some lighting fixtures that can be installed because there were a lot of luxury boutiques by this time. And so I get this local production with the partners. I have my two children. It was comfortable for me to take my little babies in the backpack with me to Russia, stay on the construction site while my mom is doing babysitting and I'm on the construction works. I really like did a lot of heavy lifting myself, supervised everything, installation stuff until the first COVID came. Uh, yes. And then immediately, like we just started to, I found actually very nice business and COVID even better, even invested more in the local because of the, the complication of the import and export. Uh, the war started. I, I had to run, pick up my kids. They were at my mom's because of the COVID they stayed there. The Russian Ukraine war. Yes. Yes. So I pick up my kids and we get to Nice airport in south of France. It was the last airplane landed directly from Russia in France. So how much stress I had. And, uh, actually I lost everything, like 10 years of my investment into this, you know, into into European-Russian business, you know, I lost everything. And, uh, so it's 2021, 22, I don't remember when is it, 22, I think, yeah. And I, and I said, and I, you know, what I'm gonna do? Because I lost a lot of investment, lots of time and lots of efforts. And actually it was already hitting me hard that the business Is, uh, like any kind of business. No, I started in 2000s. It's a revolution, LED revolution. I really like, I was in the, I was source of this revolution. I was inventing fixtures for the luxury brand. And then after those fixtures were reproduced everywhere, like 90% of the fixtures exist on the market started with some kind of idea I was inventing for this or this boutique in 2003, 2005. And, um, I had crème de la crème, I had stable part, and then there was so maturity in the market and you have to work more and more and Chinese producers came and they bid cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. So we win less and less, less money for, uh, more and more effort. I was like, mm, I don't think I want to do this. And anyway, I do it for more than 20 years. I want something new. Yeah. And I went to the, uh, French incubator for women. Yes. With an idea of app to fight predators. Okay. That's a shift. Okay. Yes. Because of my personal trouble history, which is all over the bridge with men, as one of my colleague in incubator, like, yeah, we are trying to, recycle, uh, skirts to make new, like, clothes, and Alicia is recycling her exes.

Oh my gosh. Okay, so, so what was your intervention here?

Yes, I had a, I had a, um, 10 years of abusive relationship with the father of my child, and, uh, I barely get out and I was very fragile and I was snapped by another predator who was even worse. But, and, uh, I, I very quickly realized and I run away, 3 months pregnant. And, uh, and, uh, so it was like, oh my God, I was like absolutely numb and everything. And I, I had to concentrate on kids and surviving. I was really in survival mode. And so when I get out of all this and this like realization, I want to do something else. Like I want to, to create a tool which is allowing people to alert other people because I found after that there were other women, there are other children and all this. So like if I would have this information, I would not get into this trap because absolutely like, you know, very, very. Very kind and very positively looking guy, um, harmful, uh, harmless, absolutely harmless. And, um, so I had this idea and this idea was very complicated. I get an idea how technically I can, can make it happen. So I was in this incubator, it went very well, but I realized it will cost so much because of the technology was not available. By this time. Okay. Well, it will, and, uh, like, I didn't need to put it on shelf for now. It's a very, very big project. It's, uh, for my heart. Uh, I want to do it to save women, to save, uh, people from abusers and stuff. But there is a lot of complication and only very, very good technology can help. And I know the concept, I built the concept, but the realization was very expensive. So I put it on the shelf and immediately when I did it, I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna find some job temporarily, you know, like product manager, stuff like this to be, to be in the industry, to look around. And I just started to look around and my client architectural company who is in Kazakhstan with whom we built several villas, uh, the director is my friend. After all those years, she called me and was like, Alyssa, you know, I want to do something. I want to start to make a startup. And I thought of you. We never spoke about IT, never spoke about startup or anything. And she called me and was like, I was thinking like, I think you're the best one who can do this. And we started this crazy thing. So she is the investor and the main stakeholder and her partner. Company and all this. And what we did and what we do, it's been 2 years we are in this venture. It's, she's investing heavily and I am CTO and product executive. We made the list of all the problems we had while we were doing construction and managing construction, not as a huge, you know, developers, you know, multi, like, like Skypers and stuff. They have tools, they have teams, but as a very mobile, very entrepreneurial team. But we build houses who cost millions, but it's a family house. It's a 4,000 square meter one family house. And it needs very precise tool, very high-end execution, very good management. So we made the list of all the problems that we have during our 20 she's 20 years, me 20 years in this industry. Like, let's take one by one and solve it with the applications and the product that we put on the market. So we are, yes, we are on the solution number 2. So the first one is the inventory application, which is a full lifecycle for all the material resources, which can be used by any entrepreneurial scale business, which is service-oriented because there are solutions for the e-commerce a lot. There are solutions for the big construction with the accountant and the, you know, all this girls sitting inside computer and managing all this inventory. But there is no thing for the guy which is on the road, which is team of the other team, is a team of subcontractors. So to make all this And we made this tool and we made it very, uh, like a gameable. So even like very boring guy, he will push this button. Yes, I get this tool. It's me who get it. You know? So, and we, um, uh, Asia market oriented, Middle East and Asia market oriented because it's a huge market there. There are 1.5 billion, uh, solopreneurs and the middle size companies in the service-oriented business who don't have this kind of tool at all. Okay. Right now. So, and we build it and we are marketing it and it's a win. It's a big battle. There, we have more than 100,000 subscribers on the waiting list. That's amazing. For us to just release this. And it was this first solution that was like, it's, it's gonna be the easy one. Let's make this one is the just first bird. Okay. Okay. So it's just the, the first one, the easy one. So the second one. It's way more complicated, way more heavy engineered. So, and I'm behind all this and there's algorithm how we do that and then, and managing the team. And we have team in China, in India, in Europe, in Canada. So this multicultural, multidimensional team of developers and products and designers and all this, and especially the designers from the luxury brand. The luxury architecture and interior design. So this, this touch of designing, they're coming to the product is, it's something special. So this is how I came to AI because, um, by doing this in the classical way with developers and, uh, one year ago I started to touch AI in terms of the product.

Only a year ago?

Yes. No, of course I was chatting with ChatGPT when it get out, but like one year ago, like, okay, let's gonna make out of this some helping tool for me to, because I was managing team of more than 20 to communicate better and to make the like product. I gave them my, uh, uh, uh, OlesyaGPT. So if they have some question about product, they could ask and like an 85% cases, they were unlocked, unlocked. And this was the, um, the, the big thing. And, um, and last November, uh, there was some kind of revolution in the team, some, some rebellion. People were trying to, to, uh, get rid of me. And, uh, but thanks to our main stakeholder, she saw that it was kind of cooked very, very badly and she's like, no, honestly, she's staying. But we gave them all chance and they just like left one after another because they saw that they cannot steal this product from us. Okay. I'm not allowing, it's secure and locked and stuff. So, and they just like, and I lost 7 people in my team, developers in one month and what they're going to do. And at the same time, the new model of Claude appeared and I started to play with it and I was trying to cover the holes that appeared by the people disappearing from my team.

And did you, were you able to replace 7 people by using Claude?

Yes. Yes. I replaced myself 7 people in 3 months. I totally replaced 7 people. Oof. And 7 people, not just, you know, some like, like developers with like, some of them were like more than 10 years experience, but I had some base, you know, I had their code as a base, as example, and I did what, uh, this is what's one of the, what is, what the tool I have, it has made the biggest difference. I have this from my university years. You, before you do anything, you build a methodology, you just like break it into the little Lego pieces, you understand how to play this game. This is how I did. I get example from, there's a code. I, I spend, uh, maybe 1 month and a half breaking this code that I received into small pieces, understanding how does it work, building methodology, how with this tool, with this AI tool, not listening how they do it. They're like, it's impossible. It's gonna take 2 months to just build this page. Oh, it's important. I go, shut up. And I, as I spent, uh, 3 months building methods mostly. And once I built methods, they were absolutely shocked. Like, and I was like, we built it, we have it, we have a product, we have, we have it. How did you do it? I was like, I told you, shut up and do what I say. Yeah. So, and this is, this is the habit I think that is the this, the making the biggest difference. And, and throughout everything I did, when I get, when I get this 23-year-old girl into this lighting company, they didn't have methods. It was chaotic. It was, and what I did first, I built methods. And once I built methods, they start to make profit. They get other people inside, they get more people, and I teach, and I told them method. The guy, I told him method. After Nicolas, he was moving to New York several years after me. He became a technical director in the biggest wall lighting design studio in New York, Laboratoire International. They like have the biggest contracts, you know? And this is the guy who I was like beating his head like this, like this with the pen, like.

So, so if you had to say like, what is something that most people are getting wrong with AI then? Would you say they're not focusing on building those methods?

I see that they don't understand what is actually, uh, this tool is. I see, I see most of the problem is this. They don't actually understand what it is. And, uh, uh, what, what is? Okay. The, the, the developers, the one with the history of development, they don't understand that this tool is the, is capable to give them something what they were missing. They were coders, but they didn't understand the product. They didn't understand what the product, they didn't understand how to talk to people, how they, they just coded. They coded something that they can. You can see it in the big, um, uh, like AI convention. They have OpenAI every year. I was visiting them. You, I work, I walk in and there is like bunch of engineers, like dudes everywhere. We build this, we build this. Because they can, not because this is something that is actually needed. Yeah.

And it's not.

And they build something because they can, and then they try to pay another dude in marketing who is like trying to shove it into the mouth of people, explaining that they need this thing. Okay. And, um, this tool for developers is, it's for them, they, most of them, they don't understand. It can help them understand how to build something what the people need using what they know. But the people who are not developers, they, um, uh, they see, uh, this tool, ah, I can build this and that, build that and that, but they actually don't understand what this tool is. They, before, um, uh, they try to build so many, so many apps. Not understanding that there are other guys who have this knowledge, who have understanding of the methods, and whatever you build here, he can do it better. So you need to build something that he cannot. And, um, the method, uh, it is something that can give you this understanding and make you very, very close to this guy who actually built this build code for 20 years, and if you learn how to methodologize your work with, with, with AI, you can beat this guy who is doing it for 10, 20 years because you have this part that he doesn't. You have this human part, understanding of what— you have the empathy. He does not. He's the guy who never saw another person in his life, actually. You have the empathy, you have empathy to understand what people need and the market uses to put yourself in the shoes of users. And if you play with this tool really seriously, just sitting and investing into understanding the methods, how to build it correctly, how actually this guy doing it. Yeah. Because using AI, you can learn how this guy did it, how they build the backend, how they build the their servers, how they build security to be that guy. And I think this is what I want to say most of the people, because most of the tools that are published in the hackathon or anything, but we see them, they're wrappers, the wrappers that's gonna be eaten and beaten immediately just by anybody. And, um, uh, what's also I wanted, yes. Um, so the habit of building methods is something which is very important. Um, one phrase I want also to understand, but what I see, maybe it's only in my vision, but I shared with somebody else and they agree with me. We have a very short period of time right now. Okay. Before now and This opportunity is closing.

Okay.

And how we use this very short period of time is our choice. Yeah. And, uh, also we need to understand that every time we type something in Claude code or ChatGPT or anything, yes, we are harvesting this power of tool to our advantage, but in the same time we are feeding this beast.

Of course. Yeah.

We're teaching it. We're teaching it. So it is a game. Okay. It is a game. Who is, uh, who will be profiting first from this tool appearing? We or they. And, um, uh, the consciousness of understanding this, that each time I'm typing something inside it, it's actually getting stronger. It's something that's needs to bother you because the several months you spend on building something, they need to be valuable the way that you get to profit from it. You get to build some, some stage for you to get to the next level.

So to really learn from it.

You need to learn from it. You need to learn from, you need to harvest as much as you can, and you need not to be afraid to go deeper and to get out of the comfort zone and really to get to the heavy stuff. Because yes, once you try maybe some, you know, like, like discussion or co-work or something, go deeper, go to the VS Code, uh, and learn how it is. Don't be afraid to ask, give me like inventing very quickly, like one big project where you can learn how to do servers, how to do security, how to do backend, how to do that and that and that. Because this opportunity, uh, time is very short. And once you learn this, this is the decision you need to make. Either you do quick bucks now, but in 2 years you will be off because everybody's gonna be learning exactly this in 2 years and you don't have any additional value to it, or you invest heavily and then this guy will not be able to swallow you because you can do real innovation.

No, I, I, I love, I love that. And I, I know we've gone over time and I, I, I really appreciate your time today. And, and, and honestly, you know, this is, I'm, I'm working towards 200 episodes now and you're honestly the first person who's, who's made that point. Like, AI is not just a tool that does, does, does, creates, creates, creates. It's a tool that can teach you and to really dig in to the how and the why and the methods behind what you are having AI do and create for you. And I think that perspective is kind of a game changer for people. So, so I mean, thank you so much for sharing that with us. And, you know, I, and I, I really, I lean into so much the, your story behind this because you wouldn't have gotten to where you are now without that background, right? So it's, and no one else is gonna have this story because no one else had that background, right? And I, and I, that's why I'm like, wait, hold on, before we talk about your current company, like, let's talk about 8-year-old you and that You know, it's kind of a joke in our club, but it's, it's so important to learn like how you got to where you are because everyone's story is so unique to them and it's the only thing that'll bring them to where only what they can produce, right?

Or create.

Well, to wrap us, to wrap it up, you know, at Gem AI, we work with small business owners and, um, you know, I, I really focus on the human side of AI, how, how AI is allowing people to be more human. And, you know, I work alongside Jam, Robyn Jam Anderson, and she, she really— she and a bunch of other experts that she brings in really emphasize, you know, the trainings and the learnings and the, you know, the automations and the efficiencies that you can do with AI for your small business. So, so knowing that that's, that's our audience, what do you want Club Jam members to know about AI, about you, or what's possible?

Oh, for me, I already said so much. So, um, AI can help you to become the person who can resist what is coming, but there is big changes are coming. So you can use and harvest this power to change yourself. Okay. To, to become stronger, to be, to become more resilient, to build this kind of, uh, um, personality that can change. They can handle those changes that are coming with the job process and everything in economics and everything which is coming. Yeah. And, um, so just use it and just, it, it, it is not a shame to suck out from us. You don't need to be ashamed to just take everything that you can from it, from inside, from your psychological, from your personality into the tools. Like the, really, I'm teaching my 8-year-old boy to how to code. Because, and how to do robotics, because if anything, if he can build and, and code robots, he will not be out of work. So, um, for small businesses, think how, start with a small tool, start with a small, maybe like I can do this automated, this and do this. And the, the biggest change what you can do is like to do, uh, I guess this is what for small business work very wonderful. You take the piece of paper and you write on the piece of paper what you do during the day, uh, step by step. Now I'm reading email. Now I'm answering the calls. Now I'm doing that. And now I'm doing that. And because we, we do it in automation, we do it in autopilot. And to be able to really produce automation out of it, you need to put it on the lay— on the piece of paper. And, and this is how the method starts to build. So I from this piece of paper, what parts of this I can automate, what piece of, part of this I can, uh, give to machine. And then you start to just make it like jewelry. Like I started with this little process, then I did add this microprocess, and then I started this. And, and, and if you do it every day, it's a compound. And in several months you woke up and 90% of your bullshit work is done by machine and you can Take this time to invest into the future you, because you need to be another you in 2 years. It's, it's, it's, it's absolutely sure.

Wow. Well, also your 8-year-old is very lucky to have you as a mom. So thank you so much for sharing this. I'm going to do a follow-up with you to make sure I'm sharing the correct resources. Um, so people can just continue to follow your incredible journey and, um, connect with you, you know, if this resonates and. Thank you so much for sharing your story. And I hope, you know, I hope after this call, you kind of give yourself a pat on the back and think like, wow, you know, this story of mine is truly mine. And so thank you so much for your time today. I look forward to being in touch with you.

Thank you for this opportunity. I'm really glad that I can share it. And I really hope to inspire some young girls and women. Small entrepreneurs with those examples of women who came and ask, you know, like, uh, out of like zero to become entrepreneurs. It's possible. You can learn in any, at any age and you can change yourself at any age and the tools are there and people are there to help. I love it.

Thank you so much.

Have a wonderful day. Talk soon. Thank you. Okay. Thank you.