The Most Human Work in the World: A Doula on AI, Birth, and Boundaries

Hi, I'm Flora, and welcome back to another episode of Jam-Packed Business Made Easy with AI. Today I'm sitting down with Sweetu Shah, a doula based on the hills of Chiriquí, Panama, who is doing some most human work there is, doing some of the most human work there is. Ooh, I got there. She's supporting women and families through pregnancy, labor, and postpartum. Sweetu gave birth here in Panama 4 years ago without a doctor she trusted, without a doula, and without a midwife. So she and her husband very figured it out themselves, and then she's decided to make sure other women didn't have to. We talk about what it actually means to scale a business that is fundamentally built on one-on-one human connection, where AI fits into this personal work and where it absolutely does not. We also get into the state of birth culture here in Panama, why 90% of women in the US are choosing epidurals, and what she thinks the future of birth support looks like. So if you're a small business owner trying to stay human while also keeping the lights on, this one's for you. Let's get into it. Hey, well, how's your day going?

Uh, we walked down to the river with Raquel and like 20 kids.

Oh, how fun. Okay, so we just kind of jumped in.

It's already recording.

So tell people who, who you are and who Raquel is and what it means to, uh, walk down to the river with 20 kids.

Okay, so I'm Sweetu. I have a farm here in El Santo, like in the hills of Chiriquí. Raquel is my neighbor and they're doing the Semana Santa camp thing. And so they all hiked up to my house, 10 minutes, and then we hiked down 20, 30 minutes to the river and they were trying to learn how to build a fire.

Wow. How cool. And Chiriquí, for those who aren't familiar, is in western Panama near the Costa Rican border. So, um, yeah. You've heard me talk here about a little bit about our life here in Panama, um, and we've had some other visitors as guests on the show from Panama as well. And Sweetu is another small business owner here in Panama with us. Um, so Sweetu, tell us a little bit about your small business.

Okay, so I am a doula here in Panama, and I'm doing pregnancy, labor, and postpartum. So I'm teaching women how their bodies are changing during pregnancy, labor, and postpartum, and I'm sharing with them different things that they can do both emotionally, mentally, physically, to empower them to have a good and happy birth that they can like think back on happily. And also like how they can best set up their body to have an easy birth that doesn't have interventions and helping them with recovery.

Wow. And how did you even decide you wanted to become a doula?

Um, when I gave birth here 4 years ago, there weren't any doulas, there weren't any midwives here in Panama. I didn't have a doctor that I trusted either to give birth with. So my husband and I just researched everything and we had a home birth and it was wonderful. That is not like, everybody does not want a home birth. And so I realized like, okay, I can be a doula and help other people have a good birth in a hospital setting or a home birth. If they wanted.

Very cool. And so you touched on it a little bit, but for those who've like never had a kid, who are just not familiar with this world at all, like what's a simple way— how do you tell people like what does a doula actually do?

It's a good question. Um, I help families. Like, it's because it's not just the woman, it's her partner. If she's got kids, it's them too. Navigate birth, it's one of the biggest changes. Like, some people have heard of the word "matrescence." Not all have, but it is— our brain chemistry changes when we are pregnant and when we have a kid, and that changes us for the rest of our lives. And it is helpful if you have a teacher, somebody who can guide you and explain to you all of the hormonal shifts that you are going to be feeling during these times so you know how to handle them and know that you're not alone.

Yeah, because it's one of like the biggest shifts in your life, becoming a mother.

Yeah.

Wow, so cool. And then, um, you talked a little bit about what pulled you into this work, and you touched on kind of your personal experience, but is there anything else that really brought you into this line of work? Like, is there something that you, you saw or that you just wanted different for others? Or talk to us a little bit more about like what, what really pulled you into this work other than you know, your own experience, you know, with your natural birth?

Sure. I heard a lot of birth stories of women here and then a lot of my friends and family members, my cousins, my sister-in-law were getting pregnant and starting their families and I realized they did not necessarily have the time to research everything that I did. When I was pregnant, we had just moved to Panama, so that was my full-time job. I was pregnant, um, but we had the farm. I was not out here chopping. That was all my husband. Um, and so I realized, okay, not everybody can research everything that it takes to have the type of birth that they want. And then so like my cousin, my sister-in-law were already asking me like, hey, what can I do for this? What can I do for that? I don't want an epidural. I don't want a C-section. And so I was already helping them out. I'm like, oh, you know what? It would be nice to be able to help. More women out.

Yeah, no, I love that. You just, you just reminded me, last week, um, I had two different meetings and both of them turned into these like working meetings for the people that I was meeting with because they were just so busy. Like, their lives were just so busy that they didn't even really have time to come prepared to these meetings. And I'm, I'm not blaming at all. It was just really like enlightening for me to see, wow, people are so incredibly busy that, you know, even this like little time on their calendar with me has to fit in so much. And I mean, the irony, sweet too, is like you probably look at my schedule and think like I'm insanely busy. And then, you know, when I have these meetings, you know, with others that like don't even have a minute to breathe before the next meeting where they're having to use that meeting to get caught up, it was just It was kind of shocking for me to see. And, and to your point, like, how are you supposed to live that life and then also prepare for one of the biggest shifts in your life, you know?

Yeah, support.

That's awesome. Cool. Um, and you know, is your husband like super on board and super excited about this, uh, you starting this business and supporting others?

Yeah, he is. Um, he knows how much it meant to us Personally, like he was basically my doula. He was the person who was helping me out with all of the counter pressure, the warm compresses, and like keeping me calm during it, the one feeding me after birth. And then like right now, okay, I am doing this and I do think about you all the time. Like I could spend about 4 hours in front of the screen before I'm like, I'm done. I don't want to do anything. If somebody calls me, sorry, I'll talk to you tomorrow. He's the one taking care of our son. Like right now so that I can have this meeting with you.

I love that. I love that. So you're working— your work is one of the most human and emotional experiences that there, there really is. And that's what makes this conversation about AI in this work really interesting. And, and for those, you know, who, who listened to this podcast before, you know that I really dive into this human side of AI, right? So like, how are real people using AI in their small businesses, but also how are real people using AI to give them time back to be more human, right? So, so talk to us a little bit about like what, what your typical client journey looks like and, and, and does that even incorporate AI?

Okay, so definitely I do use AI now for the Instagram posts because I was doing it on my own before. I hate it. Like, I barely post to my own personal social media, um, and I just like, I would dread even the thought of having to make a post for it. And so, okay, now I can just say like, hey, I need a post on this information and I can have it, and I'm editing the text so that it has my voice, but it's a lot more polished than what a rambling person is going to say. I have a lot of passion behind it, but to have it concise, to have those hooks that you need to grab people on Instagram. Like, that is not my forte. Like, I am a people person. I can help you birth your baby, but I cannot help you run your social media.

Um, I love that.

It sounds good.

So outside of social, like, where are you feeling kind of stretched in, you know, because being a business owner, it's like it has two parts to it, right? It has the part where you're providing the service or offering the thing that you, you got excited about to even start the business, right? That's like your true doula work. And then there's the side that's like actually running the business, right? So you touched on social media, you touched on— so like, where, where are you personally feeling stretched in, in your business right now?

The fact that I have to scale, just because of what I'm doing right now, it's so one-on-one. Like, I have a client, I'm helping them out through pregnancy The way that labor is in Panama, they're not always allowed to have a support person, or they're only allowed to have one support person, which generally is gonna be their partner.

Yeah.

And it just depends on the doctor. Um, and then for postpartum, I can help out, but it's, it's hard to make enough money to live all the time. Like, lucky for us, okay, we are able to eat off of the farm. I don't have to pay rent, I have my house, but Um, more than that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I need to survive. I gotta have gas money to visit my friends.

I love it. I love your priorities. So, so talk us through like a typical day in the life for you and how you kind of bring in this flow of running your business alongside your, your day-to-day. Like, what does that look like?

Okay. Um, it, like when I'm working from home? Yeah. Okay. I wake up, I hang out with Raphael, takes him like 2 hours to eat breakfast. We go and we visit the goats. I did scoop the goat poop today. They're waiting. Yeah. Uh, a lot of times it's my husband and then I will try and get my documents done. So I have package offerings, I have some à la carte options. Now. And, you know, as I'm doing my doula course, because it's okay, pregnancy, labor, postpartum, but also breastfeeding education and support, um, doing that, just always trying to learn because every pregnancy is different. So there's a lot of stuff I'm trying to learn about. And then making the different offerings, ways to help people, ways that I can help other people out virtually, just because Panama is also very spread out too. And right now I'm confident I can help people in person here in Chiriquí, but we have a lot of other provinces too that I would like to be able to teach people how to have a happy and healthy birth there.

Oh, and do you also work with, uh, remote clients in other countries?

Yeah, of course.

What does that look like?

So somebody can book whichever service they want. Basically the only thing I wouldn't be able to do is cook for you. But even if they needed virtual labor support, I can still help you out, explain to your partner what you can do for that situation, how to help you get through those contractions, how to help you get through transition, and kind of explain the stages of labor as you're feeling them. And definitely all of the birth education, the breastfeeding education, troubleshooting problems with, latch or just comfort. Yeah, very cool.

Um, all right, so, so outside of being with your clients and, and, you know, now you've got AI kind of helping you streamline, um, your social media, you obviously, you have a 4-year-old son, you mentioned Raphael, you've got goats, you're cleaning up this poop, you know, what, what takes most of your time outside of, you know, the actual client work?

Hanging out with Raphael because it's just playing. He's not in school yet, so he's at home with me.

Love that. Love that. Where your time should be spent, right? Um, how, how much would you say right now in, you know, growing and expanding your business, how would you break it down versus, you know, care versus admin in, in this, in this business that you're running?

Right now it is, I would say, 80% admin and 20% care, just because of the way that my clients are. And it kind of depends on who is pregnant when. We have a smaller population that I'm dealing with. People still don't really know what a doula is here in Panama. I'm hoping to change that. Like, there is another doula here, but again, she's not from Panama. She's from Nicaragua. And right now a lot of it is still just setting up the business and being able to expand it so that people can know that this is a service that's offered right here.

I love that. And so we talked a little bit about, you know, creating these packages and creating your social and using AI for that. What AI tools have you experimented with?

I've used Google Gemini.

Oh, why did you choose Google Gemini?

My brother had it and that's the one that he told me.

Great.

About. Um, also like I'm already using Google everything, so I felt like maybe it would be a little bit more integrated in with my life.

And has that been your experience?

Uh, I don't know.

Okay.

I don't know if it, I, I just haven't, I had like the ChatGPT app way back when it came out and I just, I never really used it. I didn't have any questions. I didn't have any work that I was using it from. Like I could've just Googled this question. And then just like with that company and its ethical things being a little bit in question.

Yeah, no, I recently, um, we actually did a podcast here because I recently did a switch from, um, OpenAI ChatGPT to Claude. Um, and yeah, and I, I trained Claude on everything that ChatGPT knew about me, and it took me maybe 10 minutes. So, and Claude is up to speed and I do not miss ChatGPT and I never thought I'd say that. Okay, so you mentioned, you know, using AI for social media. I love that. And you're not only using it to like create graphics or anything, you're using it to really help prompt you. So you're really having it support you in this human experience still, right?

Mm-hmm. Super cool.

Could AI help you create birth plans or educational resources faster? And would you even use AI for that?

Um, I don't know if I would use it for birth plans just because the birth plans are so specific. I used it to help me create like a birth map template. It's 6 pages long, but it covers every single option that you could possibly face in the majority of hospital settings, which is how most women are giving birth here.

Yeah.

Um, and then past that, it's me and the client.

Cool. We talked a little bit about this kind of like overcapacity, like burnout, everyone being busy. Do you think AI could help you support more moms without burning out?

Yeah, if it could help me like scale and get that information out to people, kind of, you know what, I'm not the most tech savvy person. And so sometimes I am using AI just like, hey, how do I do this? Or how can I most effectively do something, and that does help just because I'm not in the tech sphere and I have been out of like that corporate workforce for so long that it does just speed up everything and make it a lot easier instead of like, okay, I could do that research on my own, but already I just have limited time that I can and that I'm willing to spend in front of the screen. AI just makes it all a lot faster. I love that.

So where do you feel on it? You kind of touched on it, but I, I would love to hear more here. Where do you feel AI has no place in your work?

Uh, the emotional stuff. I know people use AI as therapists, but I think it would be a lot better to talk to a human person, like talk to another mother. Like, after I became a mom, I realized like, oh, it's a secret club of women and everybody has gone through this. And like, it's one of the biggest hormonal drops you have after having a baby, and then it is just a roller coaster from there on. Um, and so being able to talk to actual moms about their experience, whether it's similar or different from yours, I don't think AI could replace that part.

Yeah, I love that. Um, very cool. Well, what else do you want to tell us a little bit, you know, about you and your business and, you know, things that you're excited to, to develop?

Um, I'm excited to develop like birth education class because I've realized so many women don't necessarily know the physiology of birth, like what is happening with our bodies when we're pregnant, when we're in labor, and what's happening postpartum, and like what's happening with breastfeeding. And when you understand that you can work with your body and just everything ends up a lot smoother, like Okay, yeah, sure, you still might have issues. There's a lot going on with our bodies then, but at least you have a slightly better understanding of how you can remedy that versus if you don't.

No, I love that. Yeah, because we're walking around in these amazing bodies and we collectively, generally, the, the, the typical, you know, anyone on the street doesn't know much about their own body.

Yeah.

And then you add growing another human inside of that, and you're just supposed to kind of carry on and, you know, stay busy.

And then you already, like, you learn it for like a week or something in high school. Um, like, if you— yeah, not if you're from Florida, but, um, yeah.

So, so, you know, really digging into this, like, overwhelm and these boundaries and this burnout This kind of work can, I imagine, be pretty emotionally heavy. Of course, there's some wonderful, wonderful experiences, and sometimes there aren't. So how do you protect your energy with that?

So I have a doula mentor with the program that I did my training with that I'm able to, like, I've called her after every birth I've attended to be able to talk to her and kind of, hey, is what this doctor did normal? Yeah, it's normal. Is what she did right? Maybe, maybe not. But to be able to talk to her, there's a lot of other doula groups, like peer-to-peer doula groups, where it's nice to be able to talk to other women doing this work and hear the advice of people that have been doing it for a little bit longer because, yeah, like it might just be a few hours in front of a doctor, but like it affects me, it affects the woman who's giving birth or pregnant or postpartum.

Yeah, no, I love that. So you, you go to your mentor. I love that. Yeah, super cool. Um, do you feel like you're always on call with your clients?

No, not unless they're pregnant, because like you can go into labor from like 39 to 42 weeks, and during that time, like, you don't know when it's gonna happen. Most women are starting labor in the nighttime, and so during that part, yes, I am on call. Like, you can call me whenever you want to. Um, if it's just with pregnancy and postpartum, no, like, that's easy enough to plan around. It's education, and then a lot of postpartum is cooking, and you can cook in batch and have it ready for them whenever they want to eat.

So I want to talk to you a little bit about that. One, because cooking is just like one of those jobs that AI is not going to come after for a while, right? So yeah, Why is cooking such a big part of your role as a doula?

Because nutrition is so important right after you— well, okay, even in pregnancy, but at least when a woman is pregnant, she often still does have enough, like, time and energy to cook and feed herself. Unless she already has other kids, then maybe it gets a little bit more difficult. Um, but like, for me, after I had my baby, I was eating, like, I ate a lot. I knew this information, I had read it, but without having lived it and also we did not have electricity here for 6 months. Um, I did not have like a fridge that I could have butter or meats or milk. Um, so like, I just, I was depleted and all of the stuff that was in my body was just going towards my kid. And you don't really necessarily realize. Um, and so for postpartum nutrition, like, you just gave so much of your body to build a baby. You built this You burned it out. Like you lost a lot of energy. They say it's like running a marathon, but then you're still breastfeeding. Like your body is still recovering 6 weeks minimum. And that's just like for your uterus to shrink down, but it can take up to 2 years for your body to build back all of those mineral stores and everything that you had. Nutrition is really important cuz it's not just eating enough that you're full, you have to eat to rebuild all of that stuff, you need nutrient-dense foods.

Yeah, absolutely. No, I love that. And going back to your analogy there, I would personally rather give birth a third time than run a marathon. So I just wanted to make that clear. What do you think birth support is going to look like in 5 to 10 years? And I ask that— I mean, birth is obviously one of the oldest practices in the universe, right, that we know of, right? So, so what is that gonna— what do you see that evolving and looking like in, in 5 to 10 more years here in Panama, or in general? In general. What, or general and/or Panama?

Okay, so in Panama right now, if you're giving birth at the public hospital, you can't have a support person. Like, it's just you, the woman, going in to give birth with whatever doctors and nurses they have. Right now it's going through legislation to be that every woman can have a support person or two with her when she is giving labor. So hopefully that is passing this year. Wow. And like in the States, in New Zealand, Australia, the UK, a lot more— there's a lot more focus on physiological birth. There's more midwives, there's more doulas, there's more birthing centers than there are in Panama and the US. People are trying to bring birthing centers here to Panama as well, just so that women can have birth in the type of setting that is more conducive to the way that we birth, like darker, calm, less interruption, somewhere where you feel safe. I like, I haven't been admitted to the hospital in a long time, but even when I go in, I'm just a little bit on edge. Yeah.

I've heard, I've heard you refer to that as white coat syndrome, right?

Yeah, it is. And some people like, you know, you meet the doctor and like when I met the doctor for my OB visit, like I felt a little bit panicky and anxiety and it can take, you know, some people get over it and it depends on your doctor too. Do you have one who understands what you want or are you having one who's pushing her view on you?

Do you think AI is going to change how women are able to be prepared for birth at all?

Um, I think they would be able to learn a lot more about physiological birth. Um, like right now, 90% of women in the States are getting an epidural, and they talk about like the pros of epidural.

90%?

Yeah. Yeah.

Wow.

Um, yeah, like almost nobody is choosing to have a natural birth, which is wild because like in the circle that I am in, like it's like half home births and half midwives and then like one person went to a doctor. Yeah, right. Um, so most people are not choosing to have like a natural birth in that sense. And so I'm hoping like with AI, maybe people can just look up like, hey, why are these crazy girls doing it without an epidural? Like, what's the difference? And just learn, okay, an epidural can be useful in some situations. Like, I'm not bashing the medical system. It helps so many people, but a lot of it is just understanding your body and how it works.

I love that.

Like trying to remove that fear.

So on this podcast, we talk to, like I said, small business owners, professionals in sales and marketing. If you were to talk to um, someone else interested in, in becoming a doula and, and really starting to grow that small business of their own. Here you are, you know, a few steps ahead of them. What advice would you give them? Like, what's one thing that, that could help every doula?

Um, there's— you have to focus on the personal connection. You're going to be helping women and not just women, like a lot of times, like you're gonna be helping their husband. Like my first client, I was helping the dad more than I was helping the mom. Like he needed that emotional support.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and your personal connection with these people is the thing that is going to matter the most. You're helping them at their most vulnerable in the hospital and in their home. I love that.

I love that. What would you, what would you say to a mom right now who's listening to this, maybe planning a pregnancy or is pregnant and is, you know, doing all the things, maybe working while being pregnant? Like, what would you say to a mom who just feels so overwhelmed right now?

We have all felt overwhelmed, whether you're planning like you are and planning to stay be a stay-at-home mom, or if you are working and you have limited time off with your kid, like you are going to find somebody who has had to walk that path before you. And if you just talk to those other moms, like, hey, what was that experience for? Like, you feel like most women are so open to sharing what their experience was and sharing what helped them get through those tough parts. Like, you're not alone.

Yeah, finding that community. Yeah, that community, you know, really can be that magic, that magic touch. And, and finally, and speaking of magic, if I could wave a magic wand and set, you know, 3 AI systems up for you today, what would you want them to do for you and your business? And maybe, and maybe that even means it helps you with something else to give you more time to run this very human-led business. But, you know, is that a client onboarding assistant or more content engine for your social?

Maybe that's posting social for you, or, uh, for me, I know you gave me the content calendar. I came up with the content calendar too, and then I've been like on a social media like block. Yeah, just to finish Yeah, if I could have AI actually just make my posts for me and all I had to do, I don't even want to take videos, but that making the packages, just, I know the information, but being able to put it in a way that I can easily get that information to somebody, like having it written down or helping me take and edit a video of myself talking and explaining everything with having good visuals.

Awesome. Well, let's do it. Let's make it happen. Cool. Um, sweetie, thank you so much for sharing your story and, um, you know, sharing your business with us. Um, how can people find you if someone's listening to this and wants to learn more about you and your offerings, whether they're in Panama or remote? Um, where can people find you?

Yeah, I think the easiest way to find me would be on Instagram. It's Desi D-E-S-I Doula. And from there they can also see my website. It's got all of my packages and offerings on there.

Great. Well, best of luck with everything and thank you again for your time today. Talk soon.

Okay. Bye.

Bye.