Become the CEO of your well-being with Naz Beheshti

Naz, a massive welcome to the Lead On Purpose podcast.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here today.

I'm so excited for the listener to get to hear your story and get to hear what you do, because so many of our listeners are leaders of different sorts and they've got the challenges that come with being a leader. And often one of the greatest challenges is managing wellbeing. So I'd love to rewind the clock before we jump into some of your incredible insights and solutions.

So.

So you were the EA for the one and only Steve Jobs. Please tell me a little bit about that experience and how that even came about.

Well, it was actually my first job out of college. I had just graduated from University of California at Santa Cruz, and I happened to accidentally find myself alongside Steve Jobs. He hired me on the spot. I was tempted to say no, only because that was not what I had planned to do after college with my psychology degree. I was going to be trying to go do something else back in San Francisco in the city. And I ended up, because of my parents and friends, everyone said, you will be crazy to say no to him. I said I would do it just as a temporary for experience, temporary experience. And I ended up saying yes. And it really changed the course of my life and my path. And so I'm so grateful and happy that I did say yes to something that I was about to say no to. I was young, a bit naive, and 21 years old right out of college. My first corporate job and being his EA amongst all the other older EAs who that was their career. They had been EAs for 20, 30 years and I had zero job experience except working when I was very young at my mom's clothing store. She owned a Benetton and I used to fold clothes when I was like, in my early teens. So it was a very intense experience, to say the least, as my first job in a corporate setting to be his assistant. As we all know, he's an iconic visionary. He's super intense. And so my experience with him was, I could say, highly influential and inspiring, to say the least. And it really did change my life.

I can imagine. And for the listener that's going, oh, I've been thinking about getting an EA and I really need one and I'm busy and I'm swamped with this and that and everything. What were the key things that you really helped Steve with?

Well, it was really just maintaining his healthy lifestyle and work schedule, keeping him on track and making sure he stuck to what he was prioritizing for the day, keeping us in charge of his calendar, his meetings and making sure he had, for example, his regular fitness instructor several times a day. He meditated daily. He made, you know, made sure he had time for all those things, made time for his family, had strong relationships. These are all like parts of him that not everybody gets to see and think that he's just a workaholic. But because I work so closely with him in his office, I, I had like firsthand view to what it was like to run a very successful company, be passionate about what you do, but, but also prioritize your wellbeing. And he really my biggest takeaway and.

What helped lead me to creating my own company was seeing what a holistic approach he took to life. He wasn't just solely focused on Apple or work without all those other areas that I helped create space for in his calendar. And he prioritized for his wellbeing. He wouldn't be able to do all the things and have the energy to and creativity to innovate and work alongside Jony. I've and create all those amazing products and have the vision to build Apple as the brand as it is today.

And in terms of communicating with a powerful visionary, someone who's very decisive, very direct, what skill set does a good EA have to have to be able to communicate and cut through and have influence with that level of leader. So what kind of skills does a great EA have to have to influence a leader? That's a visionary, that's a real powerful thinker.

Skills. Well, like I said, it was my first job out of college, but I think it's more character and being confident. And I think that is actually why I got the job because I treated him just like any other person. I was just myself. And sometimes when you really want something or you know, want to impress you, the nerves get the best of you. I wasn't nervous at all in that interview and I wasn't nervous at all in any of the days or encounters I had with him. And so because of that, he, I felt, had more respect and just comfort with me and there was more of an authentic, you know, connection between us. And he could have hired anyone and he, and he could have and should have probably hired someone who had a way more experience than I did. And so I think, you know, growing up, my parents always instilled the idea of just be yourself. You know, they always like trusted me and my judgment and always their advice to me was just be yourself because, you know, I Had good judgment and I did that in my interview and I did that when I worked for it. So when you're trying too hard to be someone else or do something and you know, impress, it doesn't come off as authentic and often the nerves get the best of you.

Great advice. So if there's somebody listening there that's about to hire an EA, or you're an ea, but to apply for a job, be confident. I love it. Look for that confidence. That's so cool. So workplace wellbeing, I mean, I would say 20 years ago we didn't talk about that. It wasn't something certainly my parents acknowledged ever. And what's interesting is that anxiety, depression, suicide, those, those things are all going up and so the conversation is more important than ever. And we look at corporate. So a great example. Arianna Huffington woke up in a pool of her own blood because she was overwhelmed, burnt out, she fell asleep at the desk, hit her cheekbone, broke her cheekbone, woke up. That was a wake up call for her to start Thrive Global. So for you, what was your inspiration behind the movement that you're creating and the book that you've written?

Well, starting at Apple. Working.

At Apple with Steve and not having been young, I had the energy to thrive and work hard and handle stress. However, that's not sustainable energy alone in the beginning, it's not sustainable if you don't take care of yourself. And I found, like you said back in the day, these are decades ago. A couple decades ago, corporate wellness was not at all common or even like heard of. And so there weren't the tools or strategies or support in that environment to help people who were stressed or on the verge of burnout. And so I kept going from one job to the next. From Apple, I went to a tech startup and then I got into a sales position at Yahoo, which was the Google of its time. And I excelled there. But you know, it was exciting and fun but then again like on the verge of burnout and no, no, like sort of stress management workshops, no coaching offered, no yoga offered, no, you know, like nothing to help at that time, employees who, who needed help and support managing stress or even building resilience. And so I wanted to start a company to help people that were like me, stressed out. After I learned how to manage my stress through yoga, meditation, a holistic approach to wellbeing, like what Steve did, I took like Steve as my role model. He was my first boss and he was my mentor and he highly influenced me and my, my daily habits. It wasn't immediate because I was only 21. Like I said, young and naive. It took me a while to pick that all up. It took me a while to connect the dots and realize like, wow, there is a wellness gap in our society, in corporate America, in the workplace, everywhere. And I need to help close that gap. I need to fill that gap. And I'm going to take everything, all my passions, everything I've learned, everything that's helped me, everything that helped Steve. And I saw as a role model firsthand as he led by example and create my own method that has worked for me and start my own company. Of course I went back to school for more training, just put all my experience together and then one pivotal experience I did have that really was like the last experience that just like basically I got home, I went to India for six weeks on my own to an ashram and had like life changing experiences. And the day I got back, I quit my last corporate job. I was working pharmaceutical sales at AstraZeneca. And I quit my job and I started my own company. And in tandem I was going back to school, but I was planning to graduate from my program before quitting. But I went on this, on this trip and I just couldn't live another day doing something that was not on purpose, was not my passion. And so I quit and I started a bit earlier and I started with one on one coaching and then the leaders, I coach executives and senior leaders and then they want me to come in and do talks and workshops on stress management, mindfulness for their team. And then their team wanted me to come in and then became like a big like, you know, employee wellness talks, workshops and then programs. And then I started implementing, creating and implementing actual employee wellbeing programs. So it started with one on one coaching and expanded.

That's incredible. I love it. Thank you for sharing that. And what was interesting with AstraZeneca so pharmaceutical sales, so I see that as often someone's got a condition and then they take the medication to help them with it. But now what I see what you're doing now you're in the prevention stage. Like what you're doing is like, let's, let's deal with it before it becomes the issue. Right?

Absolutely. And it's funny because as a pharmaceutical sales rep, I used to go and have meetings with doctors and take them lunch and have conversations. And I slowly started realizing that I wasn't actually talking about the drug that I was supposed to be selling, but actually about prevention and holistic approaches. And that's why they liked me so much because I wasn't trying to sell, sell something on them. You know, it's like we were just having authentic, genuine conversations about their thoughts on, you know, preventative medicine or holistic approaches to it, functional medicine. And it was just so interesting. And that actually not knowing at the time also was part of leading me. And like connecting those dots in hindsight led me to like realize how impactful and meaningful it is to do it. A different approach. Go, go through well being and health and wellness through preventative measures and through healthy lifestyle habits.

I love that. And often we can be in denial. We're humans, right? Sometimes we don't want to admit things. So for the person that's listening going, I don't think I'm burnt out, I don't think I'm stressed, I don't think I'm unbalanced in my well being, what are the things that people should be looking for? The red flags that start to pop up that would suggest that perhaps you are on the road to burning out, you are on the road to depleting your wellbeing. What are those things that you could see as telltale signs?

Well, for one is a lot of my clients come to me saying they have a hard time sleeping, that they have racing thoughts every night, or they have anxiety and they don't know how to get rid of it, even though they won't admit they're on the verge of burnout or burnt out. But just like, oh, I'm just anxious or I feel really stressed, I feel overwhelmed. This can appear in the form of not sleeping, not eating well, having seen relationships start slipping away because you're getting either you don't have time for them or you're getting more irritable or like aggressive and just feeling not like yourself. And also just like it could appear in the physical form of feeling ill or under the weather or aches and pains. It can mentally, emotionally, physically, it all can show up in different ways depending on the person. And sometimes it's a combination of all of those. But overall, when you can't sit quietly or be in peace or sleep well or just feel good and feel energized, a typical question is, when was the last time you felt good or you felt energized or that you slept well, when was the last time? And if it's typically a long time ago or they can't, they're like, good question, I can't remember. Well, that's a good sign right there, 100%.

And often when we experience these red flags cropping up. It's easier to self medicate through food, through alcohol, through smoking or other substances. So how can we break that pattern? Because many, we know many top leaders that love a glass of wine or two every single day of the week. How can we break that pattern so that they can then take more control of their wellbeing in a more holistic way?

That's an excellent question. And that is sometimes extremely difficult to do if you are not willing and able to do it. Like if you. I can't as a coach force anyone to change or break a habit unless they are willing to do it. Right? Willing and able to do it. So when people come to me, for example, if someone comes to me like a CEO of a company and says my so and so needs coaching, the first question I ask because they have these bad habits, habits or they're underperforming or whatever, the first question I ask is, do they think they need coaching or do they want help? And if they say no, then I'm sorry, like I'm not. We're going to be wasting each other's time here. So for them to break a habit or that vicious cycle is that they need to want to do it. And so something either they have to either hit rock bottom, they have to get sick and tired of being sick and tired or just like want a change or once they want to change. What I do is start very small, not say, okay, we're going to turn your whole life upside down. We're going to create all these new habits. No, the way a new habit sticks is by starting really small and attaching it to an existing habit that you do every day. Right. So, you know, behavioral scientists have cracked the code on, you know, BJ Fogg, Tiny Habits, best selling author of Tiny Habits. You know, he, he has the formula of like, you know, I'm going to X, Y, Z, whatever the habit is that you want to start after. I, whatever it is you do every day. Like I brush my teeth so I have my own rpm, rise, pee, meditate. I rise every day, I have to pee and then afterwards I meditate.

Love it.

I don't do that. Then my day gets, you know, started on the wrong foot or I try to squeeze it in another time. But a lot of my clients say I want to meditate. Okay, well let's pick a certain time and let's do it always at that time. Because if you say I'll try it sometime in the day, it's most likely not going to Happen. And I'm not going to ask them to meditate when they've never meditated before and just want to get started. I'm not going to say meditate for 10 or 20 minutes. I'm going to say one minute, two minutes, let's work our way up. Because that's doable, right? And it's. You don't need intrinsic motivation when it's something so small like that. Right. You just like a minute.

Yeah, yeah. I love that. And I love that that from BJ Fog after I and it could be brush my teeth. I will do 100 push ups, whatever it is. But you existing trigger and then insert new behavior. That's a really easy and powerful way to build that. That trigger loop.

Right. But never a hundred push ups would be like five because hundreds a lot. Right. He actually that was one of his habits. After I brushed my. Or no, after I flushed the toilet, if I remember correctly. I will do. I think it's like five, I'm guessing. But it was a small number of push ups. But you go to the bathroom several times a day and so you flush the toilet, you end up doing several more push ups. Once you're down there, it's like bonus. Okay, I said I'm going to do five but I'm already here, I'll do six, seven. So people end up doing more. The hardest part is to do it and then everything else is like gravy on the top.

I love it. And for the person that's listening right now going, oh yeah, you know what? I'm not really happy with my health. I look at myself in the mirror, I can see I'm not healthy, I feel unhealthy, I don't sleep well, I do self medicate. My relationships are probably not as great as they could be. And they say, you know what? I want to be the CEO of my wellbeing. Where do they start? How can we get them started?

I would say get my book. Pause, breathe, choose, become the CEO of your well being. I have over 80 proven strategies in there and so I have a lot not to be overwhelming, but everyone's different. So there isn't one magic answer or approach to answer your question. Because you have lots of different readers. I mean not readers, listeners. You have many different types of listeners. And so one approach or habit method strategy is not going to work for everyone. So I would say either, you know, get the book or choose something that you know that has worked for you in the past that makes you feel good, whatever that is, is it meditation, Is it exercise? Is it starting to eat more healthily? And light organic foods. Like what is that one thing? Just start with one and then do that and then see how good you feel. Once you get a taste of how good you feel, you're going to naturally the ripple effects take place and you're going to naturally want to add more and accept, extend those habits into more better, healthier habits. And then before you know it, your life has been greatly impacted and you'll just naturally want to feel good. So ask yourself, how, how, how bad do you want to feel good? How bad do you want to feel good? And then just do the things that make you feel good and start implementing, taking action, but small action. Because small action creates sustainable change, not big action.

It's so great to hear because so many thought leaders are like, massive action is required. Take massive action. And actually not everybody wants to, needs to or can take massive action and it's a big deterrent, it's friction. So I love that you're like, hey, take micro actions. Like, let's start small.

Yes. First for habits, for sustainable change. You want to start small. But like taking massive action to like disrupt industry or do something like in, in the workplace, I could see that. But when it comes to lifestyle habits, massive action could be awesome in the beginning, but then how sustainable is that? How long have you taken that massive action? Like because you have so many other things going on in your life, like your career, family, whatever it is that that massive action could be too massive to actually work long term.

Yeah, that makes sense. And pause, breathe, choose. So talk me through what that means to you.

Well, pause is just a moment to be able to. I mean first you have to be. It all stems from mindfulness. Like you need to be mindful in order to take a pause from a situation. Whether it's like mind wandering, ruminating.

Something that is creating anxiety or stress. So catching yourself in that moment and realizing you're not like present. So pausing in that moment and then taking a conscious breath, you know, just breathing. Like if we just do it together, like pause and just take a deep inhale, like inhale.

Exhale it all out. Like it just feels so good. Right? It's just a moment to yourself to reset, to ground yourself, take a breath, take another breath. You know, conscious breathing is mindful breathing is a way to set you up to choose better. So when you pause and you breathe, you can choose more wisely. You could choose to self direct self, correct, choose better, choose to be happier, healthier, whatever the choice is in that moment. So to me, that is my mantra. Pause, breathe, choose. That is the way you can make better choices. And life is all about the choices you make. And that just sets you up to make good choices.

I love that. And to me I hear that when you do that, it can heighten your awareness and so then you can make better choices and in the end you get better results, right?

Absolutely, absolutely. And that even impacts from the small choices. I read somewhere you make that we make about 35,000 choices, decisions a day. Right. That can sound very overwhelming. Are we mindful of all those? No, like we can't be. It's like so many. Right. But if we start to be a little bit more mindful of the choices that we're making of those 35,000, the ripple effects travel far and wide in all areas of our life because it's so important, the choices that we make. And if we could just choose better, when you're not feeling so great, just choose better, then you'll feel better and you will do better.

I love that. And I've been hearing you talk about mindfulness and meditation and something I've practiced for several years. I love to meditate and often when I talk about it with a client or with a friend, there's pushback. With meditation, there's like, no, I can't do that. It's weird. I don't know how to do it. So obviously it's a very important part of well being and self awareness. Where can someone start, in your opinion? Where's a great place to start just to do that one minute of mindfulness or meditation?

I mean, there's great apps out there like Headspace and Calm. I know some of my clients like those. I don't personally use them because I have my own TM Transcendental Meditation meditation practice. But apps are a good place to start. If not I just say sit quietly for one minute and focus on your breath. That's as easy as it can be. You know, you could do it anywhere, anytime, of course, except when you're driving or handling, you know, machinery or when it's not safe, you don't do it. But that's a tool. You have all the time with you and your breath and your mindfulness moment. Like it's a micro mindful check in. And.

When you focus on your breath, I actually in, in the beginning of every coaching session. Well, like 95% of the sessions I run, I start this way. And the other 5% are for people who aren't into Meditation, or maybe just don't want to do it. I start with a two minute guided meditation. And part of that guided meditation has a visualization of a balloo, which can help people visualize a balloon in the sky. When you have any thoughts or sounds that may disrupt the pattern of your breath, because your focus is on your breath. So you're sitting there focusing on your breath. But of course, we're all human. We have thoughts in our mind. Like, what am I gonna have for lunch? What's you know, what's so and so doing what's what about my next meeting? Am I prepared for that presentation? Those are gonna come and go, you know, and that's okay. Just think of the balloon, be aware of the thought, put it in the balloon and watch it float away and then come back to your breath. Another thought comes in, put it in the balloon, watch it float away, come back to your breath and just keep doing that. Even if a sound there is like construction outside, or you could hear your colleagues speaking or whoever, just acknowledge it, put it in the balloon, come back. So that balloon visualization is also very helpful.

That's amazing. And for the listener that's listening right now, that's never tried anything like that. Could we do that right now? Do you want to treat me as the client for two minutes and take me through that so that they can. As long as the person listening. Right. Do not be driving if you're running. This won't work. Please be sitting down stationary. So I could be the client for a minute and experience what that might be like. And if everyone else wants to join us, that'd be awesome.

Absolutely. I love. This is like a treat for me in the beginning of all my sessions. I get so excited because I love doing it. It's just as helpful for them as it is for me.

Awesome. Let's sit in a comfortable seated position.

Legs are uncrossed. Feet are planted on the earth. Gently close your eyes.

Your palms are resting on your lap, facing upwards.

Let's roll our shoulders up to our ears. Back and down. Lifting your chest up.

Let's do a couple neck rolls. Rolling your neck in one direction. Slowly and gently.

Releasing any tension that you may be carrying with you.

And reversing the direction.

Coming back to a full circle, back to neutral. Spine.

Your chin is parallel to the earth.

Let's take a deep inhale together. Inhale.

Exhale it all out.

Two more like this. Inhale.

Exhale.

Inhale.

Exhale.

Continue breathing here at your own pace, with your awareness on your breath.

Whenever you have any thoughts or sounds that may disrupt the pattern of the breath, that's okay. Just imagine a balloon in the sky, putting those thoughts, putting those sounds into the balloon, and just allowing them to float away.

So you're going to acknowledge them.

Let them go, and return to your breath.

We'll be here for just about a minute together, sitting still with our awareness on our breath.

When you're ready, slowly begin to bring your awareness back into the room.

Wiggle your toes and your fingers.

And whenever you're ready, slowly and gently begin to open your eyes.

I feel so different, energetically, emotionally than I did three or four minutes ago.

Awesome. I love that.

That was great. And such a biochemical change in such a short time. I could see how that could make such a difference. If a leader was doing that once a day or even a few times throughout the day, that's so powerful.

Yeah. And even just starting our sessions, they are usually running from another meeting, back to back meetings. You don't know where they came from. It's just a great way to reset, you know, get focused and grounded. And I even suggested for people who are giving big presentations, they get nervous or like going into a big meeting, just a great way to reset at any point or if you're feeling tired, stress, like any emotion, just, it's a reset. It's a very easy tool that you have everywhere you go that enables you to reset recenter, get grounded and become more at peace too, and energized at the same time.

I love it and I really, I really hope that everyone will grab a copy of the books. If you're listening, I know you're probably listening on your phone. I'm going to put the show notes in the link. So grab, grab a copy of the book and I'll make sure to put that in all the show notes across all the different places, platforms.

Naz, thank you.

That's amazing. So for the leader that's listening now, going, well, being, what's that going to cost me? You know, what am I going to have to invest in that for my company? Let's just answer this for them. What's it going to cost them if they don't invest in their staff's wellbeing?

It could potentially cost them their business, to be honest. Because when your employees are not functioning and performing at the top of their game and they're not happy and healthy.

They'Re not doing their best like they're going to either.

They'Re going to jeopardize whatever their role is, there that they're supposed to be doing what they were hired for because they can't perform and, or they're going to leave and then you're going to have to start all over and fill that headcount and find someone else. Right. So it's only to the best interest of the employer to the leaders to treat their employees as they would want to treat themselves or their own family. Because your employees are the energy, the prana of the company. They are the life force. Without them and without them feeling their best, they are unable to do their best. So I always say, in order to do well, you must be well. And the biggest, biggest lesson in a nutshell that I learned from Steve Jobs and starting my own company is that well being drives success. Period. Like, well, being drives success. It's three words and the most powerful words that sums up everything. So it could cost them the success of the company, essentially.

That's huge. And so it's not worth the risk of not investing in wellbeing. Absolutely. What's for the leader that's going, you know. Yep, there's a budget, I've got a budget this year for well being. But they're the leader who sends out the 4am email. They're the leader that's in the office first and then leaves at 10pm they're the leader that gets grumpy when they're irritable. They're the leader that skips lunch. What's the point in investing in wellbeing if we don't actually walk the walk? Is there a correlation between successful wellbeing culture and the leader embodying it?

Absolutely. And I'm so glad you brought that up, James, because I always say that it all always starts at the top. You, you have to, must, must lead by example. So I work with a lot of CEOs and I actually asked them, I like the example that you gave of sending an email at 4:00am I said, listen, you cannot be sending emails at 4:00am or even like 8 or 9:00pm like you, if you are sending and needing to work outside of working hours, that's, that's not great. But sometimes we all have to. But at least automate it so that you can plan for it to be sent the next morning at 8am, not at 4 for or whenever, when you're sending it. And they always say, oh, well, I didn't even really think about that or why does it matter? It really does matter because not all employees have strong boundaries or confidence to be able to stand up for themselves. And Be like, well, I was busy, I couldn't respond, or that was after hours. They may feel the need to, because it's their boss, to respond immediately. And then that creates that ripple effect of like a toxic work culture that you're working around the clock. And so that's a good example of like creating boundaries and healthy boundaries. Right? So you must, you must lead by example. And even taking it further, when I implement employee wellness programs a lot when I first started my business 10 years ago, everything came from HR. It was like HR's responsibility, responsibility for employee well being. Now I'm like, no, this notice that we're implementing this workplace wellness program needs to come from the CEO or like C level, not hr. This is not an HR department issue. It should not be siloed. This is a leadership contribution, a leadership investment, not hr. And so when it comes from the CEO or you know, C level, the communication of the employee wellbeing program, there's so much more meaning and impact because then people like perk up. I mean, when you're, I remember when I worked, you know, at Apple or wherever, Yahoo, AstraZeneca, when I saw an email from the CEO which was not often at all. You read that email. When you see an email from hr, you may not read that email, sorry, hr, whoever's listening. But like you get a lot more communication from HR and it may get buried, it may unintentionally been not read. Right. But you're going to read what the CEO is saying. And if the CEO participates in the programs, I have CEOs sitting in on my workshops. And that really attracts more employees because then it shows that, oh, the CEO is attending. That means I can too. And I'm not going to look like I'm slacking off because I'm attending this stress management workshop, for example. So it's really impactful for the CP CEO to be and all of senior leadership to be, all leadership, everyone to be involved.

I agree. I wholeheartedly agree. And so for the CEO that goes, hey, I'm a data person, I need statistics. So whether it's through neuroscience, epigenetics or any kind of data or science, what's one of the most damning facts that you could share with a CEO who's going, I'm not going to engage in this investment in well being unless I know there's some stuff that backs it up here that shows me I'm going to get healthier staff, better productivity, more engagement. Is there anything that's quite enlightening?

There was A Harvard, there was a study from Harvard Business School, from business leaders that showed, I believe it was in the 90th percentile, people being leaders, being stressed out and extremely stressed. And so what does stress do? Like stress is like the epitome, the core of feeling poor, doing poorly, underperforming, not being productive, being unhappy. Like stress is linked, connected to so much disease out there, right. And death. And so it only would help them to realize how much, how prevalent stresses and how prevalent burnout is. And I think that they do know because a lot of them themselves are experiencing it. Right. So I feel like, you know, these type of statistics before I would need to share more statistics or studies which there aren't that many that exist, honestly, especially back then. Now though, people are experiencing it for themselves. So they know and they're losing top talent as a result of it. I mean, I can't tell you how many people I work with that have like transitioned that like, I'm not going to work here as senior leaders, I can't work here anymore because the culture is toxic. And so when people start, when the turnover increases and there's high turnover, they start realizing we need to do something different, right. And in the exit interviews they learn that it's a toxic work culture. Too much, you know, working too long hours, not feeling supported, not feeling being, having psychological safety, you know, not having kind colleagues or supportive bosses, managers. So all of that gets back to them. Now I also have worked with people who the CEOs or startup founders don't care. They're like whatever, that was them. But then another exit interview says reveals the same thing and it keeps revealing. So that's up to them to take action. And if they're not going to take action, they're going to lose people to their, to their competitors. I mean, it's just plain and simple. So the people who know the value of employee well being, taking care of yourself, self care, are the companies and the people who have a competitive edge. It's plain and simple. And I'm not even being a corporate wellness consultant and an executive coach. I'm not here to try to convince anyone of that. And in this day and age, if you don't know it, I'm so sorry for you. Like really like I am. Seriously, I'm sorry that you haven't woken up, like wake up, open your eyes, like look around you. That, that's kind of how I feel about it.

Yeah, no, absolutely. It's interesting. I had a high performers leadership event last week and there was A pre event formed everyone, everyone filled in and the question was, what's your greatest stressor in life? And 70 to 75% of them was work.

Their boss, probably. Right. They're working their boss.

Most of them were CEOs and they were running or they were business owners of some description, but yet. So people related issues, productivity, engagement, fulfillment at work, but all work related. 70, 75%. And so that spoke volumes.

Yeah. And what was their reaction though? Like to see everyone else feeling the same thing. Right. It's great to get lots of people, lots of the CEOs founders in the room to know that they're not the only ones. Right. Sometimes. Because I also coach a lot of CEOs and startup founders and it's very lonely at the top.

Right.

They think they're the only ones feeling this way because they don't have that support of other CEO friends or colleagues because they are the CEO or founder. So it's nice that if you're doing these roundtables or these events with others that they realize that they aren't alone and they can lean in and, and support each other too, hopefully.

100%. Yeah, 100%. I think there was a sense of relief in the room and everyone could see that they had similar challenges. And the lonely at the top thing, it's so interesting. I would say probably at least 50% of people that I'm chatting to before we start working together will say it's lonely at the top. And I come back to them and say, well, if you're leading, it should never be lonely. Because if you're leading, you have followers and you have a group. So if you're lonely, get off the top, get down amongst your people and get involved.

Absolutely. I love that. Yeah, that's so true. That is so true. Yeah, that's. That kind of also reminds me of like when I was working for Steve, I. I felt lonely just as his ea, because I felt like I couldn't connect with other people in the company at Apple, like even just going to the cafe, the Apple cafeteria to get food, I was so busy, I would be the one bringing it back to my desk and eating. And I felt like isolated. But it was also because there was like kind of a separation of like from the executive level to everyone else. Like physically, we were on a different level and separated from everyone else. So there was a big feeling of disconnect. And I really don't like feeling disconnected, like socially, physically, all of that. So that's similar to like, you know, CEOs feeling lonely, not connected.

Definitely 100%. Well, I just want to say I love what you're doing. Your work is so powerful and so important. And for the listener that's listening right now, grab the book and while you're at it, grab a second copy and give it to someone you love is also experiencing the challenges of life and work. And one last question for you though, before we do wrap up. I know you've recently became a mum, so congratulations.

Thank you.

If we fast forward 80 years, way into the future, and we're going to live a lot longer now because of all the healthcare we've gotten, that we look after ourselves. So you're on your last day and your child says, hey mom, I've got one last question.

How can I lead my life with purpose? What would you say to your child? Wow.

Well, first of all, it'd be a very sad day if I was leaving my child. That's like I can't even imagine. But that's a great question. And I think it's so important to lead on purpose because I think purpose is everything. And purpose is in my mind and heart about being human and humane. So being good and doing good in a self actualized way. So purpose is, is what fulfills us and helps others. And it's really a source of joy and healing that keeps us grounded and motivated as we navigate this physical world. So I would tell him, you know, to do whatever it takes to find that purpose, that joy, that you know.

That joy to fulfill your purpose but also help others. And I always think of it as there's two types of purpose. On a macro level. There is our life purpose, the reason we exist. And sometimes that's a much harder thing to find. Some people never find it. Or you know, and then there's a micro level which is the purpose of, you know, taking action on a daily basis. Like taking action with intention and ambition on a daily basis. So, so there's something for everyone. In other words, because it took me some time to find my, my life purpose. And when we think of purpose, sometimes it's on that bigger scale. Right? But for the people who haven't found that yet are still looking.

You know, there is, you could take, you could live on purpose day to day on a micro level with intention and purpose. And I always say, I would tell my son that your heart would lead you to your life's passion and purpose. And the way that you can follow your heart is by quieting your mind so that you could hear your true desires of your heart and then take explorative action based on what your heart is. So connecting that mind, heart connection, that's so beautiful.

I think if any leader listens to that now and they could pass that on to young people, kids or grandkids in their lives, I mean, that would make such a difference. So thank you so much for sharing that and I really appreciate the incredible work that you're doing. I hope this book gets into millions of households over the next five and 10 years. It's an incredible book and published by none other than New World Library. You're in amongst some of the best authors in the planet, Deepak and Eckhart. So really great to see you in there and I have no doubt that this book's going to make a huge impact on so many people's lives.

Oh, thank you so much, James. It was a true pleasure to be here with you today.

It's fantastic to connect. We'll talk soon.

Thank you.

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