Damon Lembi’s 4 Step Framework to Crush Self Doubt

Today's special guest is Damon Lemby. And today we're going to talk about learning and growing as a vehicle for personal vitality. Enjoy the show. The Lead on Purpose podcast is sponsored by NZ Mortgages. Learn more at nzmortgages.co nz. Damon, a huge welcome to the Lead on Purpose podcast, James.

It's an honor to be here. Thank you.

I am so excited that you're here. You're doing things in the world that are really shaping leaders, that are shaping how people think. You're really empowering people with mindset, tools, insights, and you're doing that from a place of experience, a place of knowing. And also, you sit down with some of the world's best leaders and you're sharing insights almost every day. So I like the route that you've taken. The route that you've taken to get where you are is unconventional, and that's what gets me excited. I look at what I've done, I'm like, it's a bit unusual going from being a drummer to doing what I do now. But I look at you on the route to pro baseball. You came through this baseball route and was on track for domination at the very top. And then things changed, and that opened up a whole new world. So, Damon, please, can you take us back a little bit to when you had that baseball in hand and you had this idea of a career ahead of you. What were your aspirations? And then where did it start to change?

Sure. So I was born and raised in the San Francisco Bay area, and by the time I was a sophomore in high school, James, you know, I knew I wanted to play college, college or professional sports. And by that time, I figured out that my best bet was baseball. So I went all in on baseball. I still played basketball and everything, but I worked really hard and it paid off. My senior year, I was a high school American, and I was drafted in the 13th round by the Atlanta Braves. And I had my first real challenging decision to make. I either could sign and go. The minor league route, which you do in America, is you start off in, like, rookie ball and work your way up. And I had a full ride to Pepperdine University, and my parents were awesome. They basically said, hey, this is your choice, your life. You got yourself here. We'll support any direction you want to go. And it was a big learning opportunity for leadership for me is I went the route to go college. And it was because my baseball coach, Andy Lopez, who's in the hall of Fame, when he sat down with me, he had a Very clear vision. His vision was, we're going to win the College world series within two years. And now Pepperdine is a 2,500 person school. They never sniffed the College World Series before. So here was this guy coming in crystal clear on how he was going to do it. He, we discussed how he's going to build the lineup where I would be a part of it. And, you know, a lot of people kind of thought, well, how's Pepperdine ever going to be able to do that? But I, I bought into it and I went and I went the college route and I got to Pepperdine, and right before I got to Pepperdine, I played in the Olympic Festival and I had a, a poor week. I didn't do well. I probably went like 2 for 14. And so heading into Pepperdine, I, you know, I, I came in with, for the first time in my life, really, imposter syndrome. And I, I wasn't sure if I belonged. Everybody was as good as I was and I was away from home for the first time and I really struggled right off the bat there.

And in terms of like actually stepping up to the plate, because I think most of the time when I meet people who have imposter syndrome, they just don't take action. They go, now I'm not good enough. I'm not going to do it. Clearly, it didn't stop you. So how did you manage that mentally at such a young age to face imposter syndrome and actually take action?

So what happened was we had our first fall coaches meeting, and it's kind of like a performance review. And so I come in and before I could even sit down, Coach Lopez leans forward and he says to me, james, he says, hey, Damon, when we recruited you, we did so because we believed that you had the talent, you had what it took to be a Division 1 player. Professional hit in the middle of our lineup. Then he sat back, crossed his arms, and he looked at me and said, son, we don't think you have the ability to play college baseball. And he just was silent. And so, you know, I'm thinking to myself, how do I get out of here? You know, I mean, this is like my worst nightmare. You know, I've only been there for a couple of months. I knew I was struggling, but nothing like this. And before I had an opportunity to even respond, he leaned forward, he pointed at me and he said, that's not what we think of you. That's what's in your head. You have self doubt. You're struggling with imposter Syndrome, limiting beliefs. He's like, we see the ability in you, but it's not up to us. You have to get out of your, you have to get out of this funk and make it happen. And so I would like to tell you that I immediately left there and turned things around, but unfortunately I didn't. I ended up getting hurt. I left Pepperdine and had to go to junior college for a year. And James, sure enough, guess what they did? They won the College World Series that year, the year I left.

Tough. That's tough.

But the great thing about it is that it taught me is you could set moonshot goals and if you get people behind you and everybody bought in like he did, these 18 to 20 year old kids. And that's something that always stuck with me in my, my, on my leadership journey is that you can, you can be an underdog and make this happen. So anyways, I, I get an opportunity to go play at Arizona State, which is one of the best schools in the country. And a lot of people told me, don't go to Arizona State, go to some small school, get your degree in, you know, move on with life. And I, I kind of said, you know what, screw it, this is my last opportunity. I've, I've my whole life I wanted to be a baseball player. You know, I wanted to make my dad proud. You know, this is my last shot. And so finally at that point, you know, two years after leaving Pepperdine is when I took the full ride to Arizona State and I told myself, I'm going to deal with this imposter syndrome head on. And what I've been able to do is I created this four step process that, or framework that I didn't even know it at the time, but how I've been able to overcome it my whole life and deal with it because everybody has imposter syndrome. I don't care if people say they don't, they're either lying or sociopaths. We all have it. And I also think the higher you go as a leader, it doesn't go away. You still, you still deal with it. And so the first thing you got to look at is, you know, for me it's going to play baseball is you got to label what you're afraid of, right? So what was I afraid of? I was afraid that if I didn't make the team, I would embarrass myself. I would have to, you know, my baseball career would end.

You know what, Once you realize that you could overcome that, I call it purposeful, awfulizing, you look at the worst case scenario, right? The worst case scenario, I could deal with that. So once I realized that I could deal with that, then I just went for it. And so step, the second step is hard work. I don't care what anybody says, there's no hacks out there that's going to. Whether you're learning to be a baseball player or first time manager or a keynote speaker, there's no substitute for hard work. I'm not saying you have to work 10 to 14 hours a day, but you need to be present and you need to make things happen. Step number two is focus. I like to call it deliberate practice. Focus in on the specific thing that you need to get better at. It's very easy to procrastinate, you know, look at social media or do other things. You know, for me in baseball at the time, it was.

Hitting a curveball. So I had the coach throw me a thousand curveballs. I just did that until I got better. You know, even if it was just one little bit at a time, in business, becoming a keynote speaker, if I was having trouble with enunciation, I would just practice that. I just do it until you got better. So that's the second step. And then the third step, the next step is once you step into the box, learn and let go. It's time to stop thinking about, hey, we are techniques in baseball. Where do I hold the bat in my presentation, when do I hit? This speech or whatever would say this thing, you just, it's time to just play the game. And you, you learn and let go. You go up there, you fall on your face, you knock it out of the park, you do something in the middle. At the end of the day, James, they're all learning opportunities. You know, you could learn from everything and grow and get better. And what I like to tell people as well is that, you know, you have to get out of your comfort zone. And because most people don't even get out of their comfort zone, but if you do, give yourself a pat on the back. I don't think that we give ourselves enough credit for actually going out there and trying something. And so in a nutshell, that's really my approach to overcoming imposter syndrome.

It's so powerful and it's really, to me, pragmatic. It's interesting. In the last, say, couple of months, I've had conversations with two people who I would say there's no way they'd have imposter syndrome. Yet both of them admitted it. One was a prime minister and One was a lady who sold a billion dollar company. First female in New Zealand to ever do that. And I remember standing in the elevator with her after the conversation and she was like, yeah, I still have those doubts. And I still wonder, can I do this? And am I the right person to do this? And I think it's a real sign that there's humility there and it's very much a reality check. So I definitely think that imposter syndrome is a benefit if we're able to navigate it and still step forward. So that four step action phase from you is just gold. I love the fact that you can actually say, these are the things I've done in sport and it worked. These are the things I've done in business and it's worked. It's fantastic. And Damon, I'd love to chat a little bit about transition from, say, sport and then where you went into business when that transition came about. Was it a decision made by you? Was it, was it a decision that was made for you? And the reason I ask is here in New Zealand, we've got our national team, our rugby team called the All Blacks, and they're world renowned, they're awesome. But I speak to some of them that are getting towards the end of their career or it's about to finish, and there's panic, there's worry, there's concern, there's imposter syndrome. What can I do? Where do I go next? I am rugby. Like, I don't know anything else. And so I'm often talking with them about how do you make the transition? Well, you've made that transition, so how did it come about and what are your suggestions about how people can navigate it?

That's a great question. And that decision was made for me. So here I am at Arizona State. My whole life has been dedicated to baseball. I hit a home run in the College World Series and the very next day, and this is back in 1994, so pre Internet kind of dating myself.

We're waiting for our phone call to come to be drafted. My roommate, first round picked by the San Francisco Giants, my team, you know, where I grew up, 15 other people get drafted. I don't get my call never comes. And so literally my baseball career is over with. So all the eggs I put in one basket and it's done. And so what a lot of your, the people you work with are probably thinking, it's like I put all this time and energy into this.

Is it transferable over to the next part of my, my career and Am I even good enough to get into the business world? Right. And what I like to call it is the athletic education. And James, I think it's the absolute best education out there. You know, I'll also tell you because I thought it like, I don't know if I have any, if my skills are going to transfer.

And what I was able to learn, I was fortunate. I come from a family who had a really large real estate company and hotels and everything, but I didn't want to go work in any of those places because I was embarrassed that maybe I've never had a job before, so would I be able to contribute. So my dad was starting a small computer training company, learn it, and I took a job there as a receptionist. And I want to start from the ground zero and work my way up for two reasons. One, I didn't know if I had any skills like I said, and two, I wanted to prove to the other 25, 30 people that I even belonged. Right. It wasn't just my daddy putting me somewhere. Fast forward. What I found, and this is important for all your listeners, is your skills are 100% transferable, and those go back to athletic education. Number one is collaboration. I think that you, what you learn from playing sports, even if it's, you know, even if it's just.

Individual sports, I think is huge. Right. Number two is, you know, of course, teamwork, discipline and resilience. You know, just in baseball, if you're, if you succeed three out of ten times, you know, you're, you're a superstar. But one of the other really main important skills, James is, I believe, is learning agility. You know, it's the ability to be open minded, you know, to, to learn something. In baseball, if you strike out, you get feedback, you know, 10 minutes later, you got to put it back into action. And that's how the business world is. Things are always adapting and changing. And I, I couldn't say enough about the, whether it's the people from the, the rugby players or the athletes, or even somebody who played in high school, what you learned is transferable and you have to believe in yourself that you're able to do it. I've got a good buddy who played in the big leagues for 10 or 15 years, baseball, and he sticks in sports as a coach because he just doesn't believe that he can perform in the business world when for somebody who's been doing it for 30 years, I know for a fact he, he would be amazing in it. So those are all the skills out there. When My book came out, my coach, that coach Andy Lopez again said this. Your book is what these athletes need to see. They need to read it because they need to understand that you're still. It's kind of cheesy saying this, but you're still wearing a uniform. It's just a different uniform. And everything that you learned can be transferred. One more thing I'll say about. One more thing I'll say about that is, let's say for non athletes, let's say that you're an accountant and you lose your job as an accountant and you always wanted to be in sales and you're like, well, you know, I spent 15 years as an accountant. You could take those skills that you learned and you could apply them and you can move in this other direction if you're willing to put in the hard work and the persistence to make it happen.

Yeah. And I think someone believing in you and saying, hey, you can do this, and, you know, doing that for others going, hey, I've been in the business 30 years. I know you can move across. To me, having someone believe in me has always been helpful. You know, back right from my early days as a competitor, but then even recently, you know that lady I was telling you about who sold her business for a billion dollars? Her and I actually happened to both play in pipe bands, bagpipes and drums, and we'd known each other for, you know, many years. And she said, james, did you realize what you were doing in the pipeline world and coming to New Zealand and helping New Zealanders become the first world champions? Did you realize that you were developing skills that would later help you, you know, high performance training with corporates, with, you know, athletes with teams? I had no idea. And she said, was there concern when you went from thinking about going from what you were doing into this new world? I said, massive. I had massive fear imposter syndrome. How on earth can I do this? So hearing it from her going, james, you had all the skills in your previous life and you just transferred. And that was really reassuring, Right? So I think, Damon, you play such a crucial role for people. And even the person that's listening, they're not talking directly to you right now, but the person that's listening or watching the show, you've just helped them by saying, hey, you can do this. If you're an accountant, you could go and do sales. If you were an athlete, you could go and run a company. You could be a keynote speaker, whatever it might be. So thanks for shining the light on that one thing.

I want to add to that is not only can you do it, but please step out of your comfort zone and go for it. James, I mentor a lot of people early on in their career and they'll see job postings either internally or externally, and they'll say to themselves, well, I don't meet all the qualifications that, you know, somebody's looking for. And I'm like, it's B.S. just apply. Because I can't tell you how many times somebody will come, you know, come through to interview with me. And maybe they don't have the five years experience or maybe they don't have some stupid certification or college degree. Right. You know, but you can connect with them and you can see that they have the right skills or a good fit. So, you know, for your listeners out there, just go for it. And that's why I like to go out and talk about it. Because if I can do it, you know, I don't have a MBA from Harvard or someplace like that. So if I can do it through hard work, surrounding myself with good people and getting out of my comfort zone, so can they.

Yeah, I love that. It's a really great reminder. It's. We have friend on the show, a guy called Zeon, he's from New Zealand and he got arrested at 14 for borrowing a motorbike without permission. And he ended up going track and field, represented New Zealand, very fast runner. He could get away from the police, that was for sure. But he ended up working his way up the ladder in the corporate world. No degree, no university, and he was the president of Adidas North America. And to me it's such an example of someone who's got a vision, is committed, does the hard work, lots of self belief, and has some great mentors, coaches along the way. Anything is possible. And the only limit is the one that you or I put on ourselves, right?

Absolutely. It's a limit we put on ourselves. But the other thing I'd like to say, and this goes for parents and this goes for leaders, I think one of the most important things we can do as a business leader and a parent, James, is help our team members and our children understand how great they are and what they've are, you know, a lot of times what they've accomplished. Give you a quick story is this woman worked for me, Laurel Taylor. She worked for me for, I don't know, three or four years. She was amazing, one of the top producing salespeople I ever met. And she left Learn it. We stayed in touch, we went and had drinks A couple of years later, and she was kind of talking about her next career moves. And I said, laurel, you know, I'm surprised that somebody like you hasn't gone out and started your own thing. And she called me Big D. And she said, big D, do you think I'm capable of doing it? And I said, without a doubt. And then I pointed out three things that she accomplished in her career. Now, I don't want to take any credit for it, but fast forward 10 years later, she's raised $60 million and she's leading crushing student debt company. And she wrote a nice post about me on LinkedIn. And every time she comes back and says, having somebody like you believe in me made a huge difference, somebody who has already been there before, believing that I can, you know, I can get there myself, she's like, that made a world of difference. And I just think that that's important for all of us who are parents and leaders, that we keep that in mind 100%.

Thank you for sharing that. And learn it as a platform. I mean, this is in the tens of millions of people that have went through and access. So you went from starting off at the grassroots ground level. Tell me about, where did you get to? How fast did you get there? What kind of growth as a business went through?

So we're close to about 3 million people that we've trained, at least. Yeah. Unbelievable.

Huh?

And that's all around the world?

Yeah, all around the world. All around the world.

Oh, God, that's amazing.

Yeah. No, it's so funny too, because, you know, I went to Arizona State. Maybe not the best academic. I never in my life did I ever expect that I would be in the learning and development world. But for one reason or another, you know, like I read about you is like, I love reading books and I love learning. And.

I remember the old days watching five or 10 people come into classes and I would just be like, I can't believe that I'm part of this. That we're getting people to come in and take classes around Excel or PowerPoint or whatever it is. And so fast forward. Today we work with companies of all sizes where mostly B2B, 95% B2B. And we made a big pivot over Covid. Like everybody else had to go mostly remote. And we do mostly leadership stuff now. And our. Our core really is individual contributors through middle managers. And we teach a lot of skills around having difficult conversations, eq, how to run one on ones. And we typically work with organizations who, I like to say, have A Learn it all mentality. You know, they, they, they want to invest in their team. You know, there's a lot of organizations who don't.

They want to invest in our team and we develop training programs for them.

Incredible. And I love the Learn it all as opposed to Know It All. It's like I'm going to be a Learn It All. So you've got a book, the Learn it all leader. Tell me a bit more about the book. Who's the book for? And what are some of the, you know, the real pragmatic tools that people might walk away with.

So the book is for. What inspired me to write the book was that, number one, I wanted to share my experience again. It goes back to if I could do it, you could do it if you put in the hard work. And number two is I've had such an amazing experience sitting behind the curtains of what, what great leaders do and also what, you know, what poor leaders do. And number three, my dad was a big influence in my life. Unfortunately, I lost him to cancer 15 years ago. And I got little kids. I got a three year old and seven year old. They never met him. So it gives them an opportunity to learn from him. The first half of the book is about being and the second half of the book is doing so. It's all around mindset. So the tools in there are.

What are the traits for Learn It All? And I consider those five traits to be humility, courage, integrity, accountability, and most important, curiosity. And so there's tools in there. It talks about how to, you know, how to be more humble, but to do so with confidence. The importance of always doing the right thing. And then the second half of the book is all about putting these into action. So for example, if you're, if you're leading a team and let's say you're a sales manager and you're going on a sales call with a. I tell a story about going on a sales call with a new sales rep and you go into the beating and they're struggling, let's say that, you know, they're not answering the right questions or they're not asking the right questions. Well, instead of being a hero, James, and jumping in, let them go about what they're doing and maybe help guide them a little bit. And then when you leave that meeting, walk away and say, hey, what do you think went well? What can we do differently next time? And was there anything that we missed out on that maybe you could ask differently? And the reason why I say that is because if you just jump in, it doesn't have to be in sales, it could be in anything. If you just jump in and do the work for them, they're never going to learn and grow. And so this way it's helping them think for themselves. And it also helps build confidence in them to have somebody who's supportive and not jumping down their throats because it didn't go well. And so it takes a little patience. But if you, if you put in the work up front, you know it's going to make a big difference long term.

I love that coaching approach as opposed to you're going to be the advisor to someone or the consultant, you're really coaching them by asking them those questions. What went well? What could we work on for next time? What might we have missed? I love that it's a curious coaching approach. This idea of humility really interests me. So I grew up in Northern Ireland in a working class town. My granddad left school at 14, had a horse and cart delivering coal. He then was a lorry driver, truck driver for Guinness and delivered Guinness for many, many years all around ire. And my family really value keeping your feet on the ground. They really value humility. Anybody that's kind of blown their own trumpet, like, it doesn't work well for them. And they remind me often, like, James, keep doing what you're doing, but please continue to keep the feet on the ground. That's super important to us as a family and I love it here in New Zealand. Humility is everything. So our top athletes and our top teams, everything's about doing the right thing, staying true to who you are. But I also find in New Zealand it can be the greatest strength and also the greatest weakness because sometimes Kiwis won't back themselves and they won't celebrate the successes. And you know, that sometimes can hold them back in certain occasions. So from your experience, maybe from within the book as well, how do we embrace humility but be absolutely confident in what we can do?

I think that's great.

Humility is important, super important. And so is vulnerability. Right. I think, James, great leaders aren't afraid to say, I don't have all the answers. Right. But you have to do it in a way with confidence. Right. Because at the end of the day, and I talk about this in my book, at the end of the day, people want to work for leaders that they know, first of all, have your back. Right? My leader has my back. But also that they're not afraid to make tough decisions or bold decisions. And that they're not weeping like in America during COVID there's this, the crying CEO where he, he, he was so vulnerable and he was, you know, saying sorry for everything about the mistakes he made. But James, when you do that, you just make it all about yourself. And people don't care, right? They don't care. So it's really important to go about things being vulnerable but also understanding and humble and also understanding that, hey, you know what, we are going to figure this out, right? And so great leaders, what they do is they surround themselves with people who have perhaps different strengths than them and they tap into those strengths and they're, and they're asking questions, they're like, hey, you know, and that's where ideas bubble up from. It's like, hey, I may not have the answer to this, but going to figure this out. So that's my recommendation. We are going to figure this out, but I need to bring you in to help me with this. So. And that's really my recommendation around it.

I love it and I think it's important that we do lead with vulnerability. But as you say, like, it's still got to be measured, it's still got to be thoughtful. It cannot get out of control or chaotic because when the leader is seen to be losing it, then of course people start to worry and fret and that then impacts, I imagine, the performance of everyone around them.

And I think what's really important for your listeners is as a leader, you're always on stage. You know, your, your body movements, the types of emails you write, people, you know, the way you speak to people, they're going to do one or two things. They're going to, they're going to copy your behavior. So if you're somebody who's dropping F bombs, then they're going to think it's okay to drop F bombs. If you're showing up late, they're going to show up late. So, you know, early on I didn't realize that. So say maybe, you know, we went through a couple hard times, right? I was there during the dot com bust and the Great Recession and back in the dot com days I would come to work depressed, right? You know, maybe hungover, I don't know. But just like, you know, just, and you could just see it on me as a leader that, that things aren't going well and people would get nervous. So. But after a while you realize, and I think EQ is so important, you have to be self aware of how you are behaving because your team is looking up to you along that. And if you're humble but confident, then they're going to feel the same way, too. They're not going to be afraid to come up and say, I don't have all the answers, but can you help me with this? Because they know as a leader, you're not going to jump down their throats from. For not knowing it. So I just think it's really important to understand that you need to model the behavior and the attitudes that you want your team to have as well.

Such great advice. And, Damon, you were coached by, I believe, two or three coaches that were hall of Famers. So you've learned a lot from the best. If you were to think back, what are some of the habits or traits that. That you've seen in them that you think, hey, if we all took a little bit of that into our own lives and leadership, we'd be better off?

So I played for three hall of Fame baseball coaches. I already mentioned Andy Lopez. Andy Lopez. One more thing about him, he had two rules. Rule number one was, show up on time. I don't care. There's no excuse for being late. And if we were 15 minutes, if we weren't 15 minutes early, we were late, and then we wouldn't play that day. Rule number two.

Do the right thing all the time, okay? And so the kids would say, well, what do you mean, do the right thing?

You know what it is, right? So even James, when nobody's watching, do the right thing. Whether it's the extra reps you need to do or in business, don't cut corners and do something illegal or wrong. So that's something I learned from him. My next coach, John Nocci, who coached the Italian Olympic team, one of the most winning coaches in college baseball history. Fierce competition. Never give up. The game's never over. Right? The game's not over until you give up and, you know, call it a day. So you always have a chance. And so he was just a fierce competitor. You wanted to win, but you wanted to win gracefully. You know, you don't want to showboat and be a jerk.

My third coach was.

A famous guy by the name of Jim Brock at Arizona State. You know, he coached guys like Barry Bonds and stuff like that. And so what he. What he did is first and foremost, which is incredible. He was dying of liver cancer that year, and when he was feeling well enough, he came out to the field. I mean, what courage that took, right?

He came to the field, he put on a good face. He. He didn't play the victim role for all you listeners out there, like on my podcast, I get all these great leaders on. And James, I'm sure the same thing with you. None of them are victims. They all take ownership and accountability for everything. And so Jim Brock led that way. And the other thing he taught us was that.

He had our back, right? If, if we, if we didn't play well, you know, he would stand up there and say, hey, you know what, I made bad decisions or whatever. He always had our back. And on the other side of the fence, we also knew that when he wasn't around, we held ourselves accountable. Right. So he believed in us, so we didn't want to let him down. Right. And so I think that that just goes to show if you believe in your people, if you invest in your people, if you get to know your people, they're not going to want to let you down and they'll do the work even when you're not around. Now those are some of the things I learned from great coaches. I also have played for some terrible coaches and I think you can learn just as much from them as you can from great coaches as well.

Yes. So what's something you've learned that you're like, hey, we shouldn't do that. What comes to mind.

So there's this one coach, doesn't really matter who it is, but he is a big league manager right now, which is shocking to me, is whenever things went well, he took all the credit, you know, he put himself first and he said it was my great pitching decisions. It was, I did this, I did that, and you know, here's the 15, 18 guys on the team and we're just like, what's up with that? Right? You know, and when things didn't go well, he placed the blame on his team. You know, he'd be like, you know, our, how are we supposed to win if our fourth up hitter struck out with, with the bases loaded? And a lot of times that was me, the fourth up hitter, right? So when I was, I could remember like it was yesterday, I always said to myself, if I'm, if I ever lead a team, you know, a sports team or a business, I'm never going to be this guy, right? I'm going to, I'm going to give my wins, like when we have a success and I tell this to the people we work with too, if something happens, well at learning, even if it's my doing, right? Even if I came up with the idea, I want to give the credit and be grateful to my team, give them the recognition, because if you do that, they're going to want to go above and beyond and everything. But if you're one of those leaders who thinks that it's all about you, which it's not, by the way, then people don't want to work for people like that and they're not going to go out of their way to do things. So that's what I learned from a poor coach is over promising, under producing, which is which. Trust is so important. That's a great way to lose trust and putting yourself first instead of your team.

Such good advice. And I'm actually going to put a in the show notes, I'm going to put a link to the Learn it all leader so people can go to Amazon and get a book today. There's so much gold in there and I know we won't get to cover all of it. So please, folks, hit that button and go and get a copy. I'd also like to just talk about your podcast for a second. So in the last year, I'll put a link to your podcast as well in the show notes. But in the last year, who have you most enjoyed sitting down with?

Well, I've had some great leaders. The one that comes to mind is a gentleman by the name of Doug Conant. And Doug is a Fortune 500 CEO. He did some incredible turnarounds both at Nabisco and Campbell Soup. And basically he took some of the worst cultures of all time. You know, they were rated like, you know, bottom 4% in Gallup. And he came in with a people first mentality.

And he also, he called it first day, first hour, which he talked about. And what he did was he made it very clear to the leadership team, these are my expectations. This is what I expect to have happen. This is the environment we're going to have here. And if you don't like it, now's the time to go. And one of the things about that, though, James, is when you say that you have to do it right, you have to live up to it. And so there's no and I think this is important for leaders. There's no.

People wondering, you know, what's this guy all about? He tells you what it's all about. And he tells this great story about how he replaced over the first three years, 300 of the 350 top executives because he brought in the right people for the right culture. He promoted 125 of them and brought in or 175, brought in another 175 and he created this culture that was people first and it was also a learning culture where people were continuously getting opportunity to learn and grow. And he also, which I thought is amazing, wrote 30,000 handwritten thank you notes over his career to his employees. 30,000. And he told these amazing stories. And he said, think about it, you know, there's somebody in Australia who a package comes in the mail and it's a handwritten Note from the CEO of our company, a 25,000 person company. And he said that later on in life he got in this terrible car accident and he got thousands of letters from people all over the world that told him about the difference he made in their lives. And he said it just came full circle. And so his big thing was you got to be tough on standards and tender to people. Right. So care about your people, but also be tough on standards. So it was a. That's what I love about podcasting. I've seen the great guests that you've had on here, like Dan Arley. I watched that, where it's like you get an hour with these people, these individuals, and if you're curious like I am and you are, you get to learn so much about what they have to say and the experiences they've had over their 40, 50 year career.

Yeah, you get inside the mines and you get to shortcut some of your own challenges. You know, you get to kind of get to the end destination through their ideas and thinking and experiences. I would.

One other thing I want to just. Last thing I'll say about him, sorry to cut you off, is that even at 70 years old or whatever he is, he's constantly wants to keep learning and getting better. You know, he just, there's always more to learn and do.

That sense of mastery, like always trying to get better. I love that. I'm going to get the team to grab that episode, link that specific episode with him and I'll put it in the show notes. So if someone wants to go and listen to that, they can get stuck right into it. So thanks for sharing that.

Thanks for asking.

Now, at the time of recording, you've recently in North America, in America specifically, you've recently had a new president elected and the world has watched on with interest, deep interest. You know, here in New Zealand, I was driving down a quiet road on the south island of New Zealand and there was a bus stop. And on the bus stop there was an advertisement. And that advertisement was for the election. And everyone should be watching the US election. So it's truly everywhere. And we're fascinated. So your new president is going to be Donald Trump. We know that now. So if you had five minutes with President Trump and you could ask him one question to ponder, you're going to ask him this question, he's going to ponder it in the hopes that it might in some way influence his leadership. What would that question be?

That's a great question. And yeah, I know it's top of mind for everybody, I would say.

What are you going to do to be able to show some humility over the next four years? Because you know, James, I think you got a young kid, I have young children. This is the President of the United States who's got to be the top leader up there. They can't have all the answers all the time. And so I think that to be a great leader, he's got to have to show a little humility. So does he have anything that he can, what's he going to do to be able to show some humility over the next couple years?

Great question. I really love that. And it's interesting because, you know, whether people love him or loathe him is arguably one of the largest personal brands on the planet. Like everybody kind of knows about Donald Trump in good or bad ways. And that does influence particularly young men. So I've got a young son, he's 8 years old. Not too dissimilar to some of you. You've got a three year old and a seven year old.

Three year old, Seven year old. I have a three year old boy and a seven year old girl.

Okay, great. I love it. So they are looking at our leaders and it might be quite passively right now, but they're still absorbing. And so, yeah, how these leaders are carrying themselves, how they're speaking to others, their body language. I agree that it's so crucial that our leaders set an example and we don't always see that in a positive way when it comes to politicians.

Yeah, and that's totally true. And.

I mean, Trump made the biggest, the biggest comeback in US Political history. What he was able to do and like you said, love him or hate him, it's going to be very interesting what happens over the next four years. And one of the things that we're working with because we know the rest of the world's looking, but one of the things we're helping a lot of our clients with and we actually had a great event on this is is how do two groups of people that are so opposed, you know, there's people hate them and there's People who love them. Now, in the business world.

These individuals have to get along. Right. So we're working with a lot of our clients to help understand.

Like what you're saying, the common purpose. The common purpose.

And being able to show respect for each other. And if you don't have the emotional maturity to be able to have conversations around this, how can we at least focus on what the common goal is of the organization? And yeah, it is kind of crazy right now. I mean, I live in Marin, California, so 82% of the people in Marin, California are not super pumped up that Trump won president. But we all have to get along. And hopefully he leads by example and he surrounds himself with people who can continue to evolve.

Yeah, here's hoping. Yeah, definitely. We're all looking on feeling the same way. Just hoping that there's really great leadership and so many role modeling for everyone. What leadership looks like now. I believe great leaders read and whether they read a book or they listen to an audiobook, they're constantly reading. So what's on your bedside table right now in terms of a book that you're enjoying or something you've read recently?

So one thing that I just want to point out for all your listeners, because I am a big reader, and I know you are too, is that start somewhere people say they don't have enough time to read. That's bs. I don't buy that. You could think to yourself, how often are you watching Netflix or what are your favorite Netflix shows? If you read 15 to 20 minutes every day, that's like 20 books a year, you know, so carve out the time to be able to do that. So that, to me, that, that is something that's, that's really important to think about. One of the best books I read recently that I really appreciate again because I have young kids, is a book called Range by David Epstein. Are you familiar with that?

No. Going to write it down, though.

It's the difference between being a specialist and being a generalist. And Range is trying and doing different things. It's a fantastic book.

And again, it's about being curious and doing different things. And there's a lot of business examples in there. But people are always coming to me, James, and they're like, hey, I want my kid to be just like, I don't know what it's like in New Zealand, but is turning to. Out here in the States, everybody's specializing in sports way too early. And I'm not a fan of that at all. I'm a fan of exploring and trying and doing different things. And people are coming to me all the time. These dads are coming to me and saying, I want my kid to get a scholarship like you. I got a hitting coach, a pitching coach, he's playing baseball year round. And I say, first of all, that's not the right thing to do. I didn't focus on just baseball till I was a junior year in high school. Go out, play different sports and go get the book range. And because there are stats and things in there that will show you that there's a big advantage to exploring before locking into something. And that is important too, when it comes to your work, that if you go down the career path and you're not completely into it anymore and your heart's not into, doesn't mean you have grit because you just stick it out and you're fricking miserable with your career. Right. You can pivot, try it out. You could. And there's a great story in there about a guy who became a doctor because his dad wanted him to be a doctor and he hated it. And then he finally, 15 years later, pivoted into a healthcare consultant, made a bunch of money, and he really flourished because that's where his strengths were and that's what he loved. Right? He found his purpose and that's what that book's about. So that's something that I just read for the second time, that I always give to everybody or tell everybody to get.

I'll put a link to that in the show notes as well. I can't wait to read it. It's interesting. I work with some of the world's top athletes across different sports, and I often talk about their childhood and when they got really serious. The ones who are the goats, the absolute household names, when I chat to them, they say, you know What? Up until 16, 17, maybe even 18, I was playing cricket, which is, I guess, our kind of equivalent of similar. Not, not exactly baseball, but similar. So I was playing cricket, I was playing rugby, I was playing golf, I was playing tennis, and I was swimming right up until the age of 17, 18. And then at 17, 18, I had to pick a lane, and so I picked whatever it might be, golf, rugby, etc. And they're now some of the world's greatest athletes. Often I find that kids that start really young and go deep and the parents are pushing and getting the best coaches and putting a fortune into it and trying to vie for scholarships, they. Those kids tend to burn out by the time they're 18, 19 or 20 at latest they're gone and what a shame. Like, the parents have a big role in this.

The parents have a huge role in it. A huge role in it. And I would say they burn out by the time they're 14, 15, you know, and that goes for the same, that goes for career as well, you know, for individuals who, dad or mom want them to be, like I said, a doctor or something. Like my son Walter, named after my, my dad. Sure, if he wants to be a baseball player, I'll support him 100%. But I want to put him out there and play all the sports, learn to play the piano, the guitar, maybe even the drums like you, and then just kind of support them for what they do. And I also think too, by doing so, they not only do they get to learn how to use different muscles, but they also meet different kids. You know, I mean, there's different groups of people and there's just so many advantages. The book starts off talking about Roger Federer and how he, you know, pick up, really pick up tennis until he's like 12 or 14. So it's amazing.

It's really. And it gives me hope as well to know that we are doing the right thing with Finn because he's not specializing in anything right now. He's doing hip hop dance, he's swimming, he is playing cricket, like surf, life saving, which is a big thing here in New Zealand. He's just amongst it all and he's just having fun.

Yeah. And I think so. My daughter Lucy is seven and about six months ago I was walking up the hill with her and there was like a little bike competition that they are having. And I, and I said to her, I'm excited for your bike competition. And she kind of shrugged her shoulders and I'm like, what's up? What's wrong, honey? And she said, what if I lose? And what I said to her is, honey, I just want you to have fun. I don't care if you win. What I care about is you go out there and you give it your best effort, you know, you do the best you can do. That's what will make me proud. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not into participation trophies whatsoever, right? But at this age, I think it's getting them the experience. And this goes to even like new people in the business world, in sales, you know, even if you're not hitting your goals, if you're putting in the effort and the consistency and the work, that's what's going to pay off. So Lucy goes Out there.

Finishes I think in fourth place. But she tried her best and she's got this picture of her arms up like this like she won the freaking Olympics, you know, I love it. It's just as a parent, you got to build confidence in your kid, kids. And as a bit as a business leader, it goes back to like what we talked about, you know, building confidence. And that's through the. I think through the process or, you know, through the work that's put in and not putting so much on the actual results. You know, figure out why you didn't win. You know, learn from that and then do better next time.

That's amazing. Good advice for. It doesn't matter what age, you know, it applies to all of us. And Damon, I just want to be mindful of your time and I know that you've got I'm good schedule.

You're good.

Well, I just want to say what you're doing is incredible. Like it's phenomenal work and important work. And you know, I think in terms of what we need in leadership, we need more people who are committed to equipping leaders with skills. And it all starts, I think, with thinking and you know, that, that mindset component. So for the leader out there that's wanting to level up their mindset, what's one, one thing you would encourage them to do?

One thing that I would encourage them to do to level up their mindset is the next time they have limiting beliefs or self doubt, I would want them to think back to a time that they achieved a goal that maybe that they didn't think they could and.

Step out of their comfort zone and just go for it.

Such good advice. And it's interesting because we can be stuck in fear, procrastination because of the thought of failure. The thought of, I've never done this before, so what might happen? What I'm hearing from you is we could reframe what might happen to a positive. Like, hey, what might happen? What might I learn? How might I grow?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like I said before, I think you find too many people, James, who just aren't willing to take a chance. Right. Because they're, they're afraid of failure. But what I'd say to Your listeners are 95% of the time, if you fail, you just end up back where you already are anyways. Right? So. And you don't want to, you don't want to go, you know, look back 15 years from now and say to yourself, man, I really wish I would have tried this. I really wish I would have asked that girl out. I really wish I would have applied for that job or.

Taken that keynote opportunity, you know, I mean, you just. I don't know, you gotta. You gotta push yourself through those limiting beliefs and those self doubts. Mm.

I'm with you on that. I'm talking about keynotes for those that are listening. And I would like Damon to come and speak. I'm going to put his details that you can contact him through his website and so forth and LinkedIn in the show notes. So. Yeah. Because I know that you do quite a bit of that in North America.

I do. So thank you.

No joy. Absolute joy. And I've got one last question for you. And I ask this to everyone. Every single guest gets a chance to explore this. So I want you to pretend for a moment that we're fast forwarding many years into the future. You're highly aware that it's your last day here on Earth, and someone very young that you care deeply about, they come into the room and they say, damon, how do I go about leading my life on purpose? What would you say to them?

What I would say to them is be present and be grateful.

As far as being present, there's just so much going on right now that, you know, you know, there's so much information and you're. And you're so scattered brain. And I've. I look back on my time and as my kids are this age, I want to make sure that I'm present for them. Right. And because you don't want to. You don't want to miss everything that's going on.

And.

And the other thing is be grateful because, you know, to this younger individual, sometimes we don't realize how lucky we are to have certain things, you know.

And that's really important again, because you don't want to play a victim, but.

I just think we need to take a step back and be thankful and grateful for what we have.

Such powerful message. I love hearing that personally. It's such a great reminder to be present as a dad, as a partner, as a coach, as a speaker, whatever it might be. And then also to be grateful for the seat that I'm sitting on, the bed that I sleep in, the shirt that I wear. Like, that's such a great reminder. It's powerful. Damon, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for sharing your gold with the world through your podcast, through your book, and long may it continue.

Thanks for having me here. I had a great conversation.

Absolute joy. Thank you. The lead on purpose podcast is sponsored by NZ Mortgages. Learn more at NZMortgages Co NZ.