David Seymour warns that New Zealand risks becoming disconnected from global dynamism and losing its pioneering spirit to a culture of saying no. He argues that proposals for differentiated rights based on tangata whenua status could undermine the egalitarianism needed to sustain a multicultural, prosperous society.
What does it mean to you to be a New Zealander?
We're a nation of pioneers. You know, every single Kiwi, whether you came here a few years ago or a few centuries ago, you or your ancestors have traveled further to give their kids a better tomorrow than anyone else in history. And this, you can test this. Just look on the map. So we are a pioneering society and we love that stuff about the Kiwi can do attitude. The number eight wire and Hillary Clain climbed Everest and Blake won the America's cup and Kate Sheppard led the world for feminism. You know, I mean, we, we love all that stuff. My concern is that the way we've gone in the last 15, 20 years is that we've kind of become a country that says no too much. And I think what's essential if we're going to solve some of our bigger challenges is that we rekindle some of that original DNA that can do attitude. It's not there right now, but it hasn't gone away. We can replenish it.
And if we don't, what's the potential consequence if we keep going down the path we have been going down? What does it look like for future generations?
Well, I mean, I look at places like New Zealand, I look at islands with nice beaches and nice climates and most of them just sort of turn into a nice place to visit, but not a place you'd want to stay. So I'm talking Greece, I'm talking Fiji, Jamaica, Cuba. Basically, there's something about a nice lifestyle where you can actually be quite happy without doing too much, at least for a while, and also being a bit isolated from the rest of the world. So you can kind of go off course and delaminate from what's happening elsewhere that you would think would be New Zealand's long term trajectory to become another nice island paradise like Fiji, say. On the other hand, I think that we have a track record of keeping this dream alive. First world nation in an island paradise seem to have a unique blend. Some of the British institutions that we inherited, some of the nature of the people who had to make this big journey. That seems to be our core DNA that has allowed us to thrive and beat the odds and at times be one of the wealthiest countries on earth despite our isolation. So, you know, we can overcome the isolation, but that is the gravity that pulls us down if we're not careful.
Thanks for sharing that. I think a lot about New Zealand being very multicultural. You know, I'm from Ireland, I choose to come to New Zealand. I look around and there's so many different cultures. What's the opportunity here with the right leaders in place to really bring all of those cultures together so that we're a more prosperous country?
Well, I think it's an extraordinary dream and it's something that New Zealand has made a reality perhaps more than anyone else. I mean, there are high schools in Auckland where they tell me the students speak 58 different languages. I mean, there's probably kids at these schools where, you know, their home countries are at war or have been recently. And yet you don't see that sort of sectarian violence. So that basic Kiwi idea of egalitarianism, I think that's what brought a lot of people here. You know, a lot of people came from England to get away from the class system. You know, people have come from Iran to get away from their oppressive regime. People have come from China where they have a one party state. People have come from Ireland to escape the English. But sadly they're still here.
Yes, they are.
So, you know, I think that simple idea of human dignity and egalitarianism, that's a key Kiwi ideal. But of course the rot always comes back. So today in New Zealand society you see people who want to sort of, I guess restore a kind of a feudal system where they say, well, because we are born tangata whenua, then we should have it different set of rights. And you have to consult us on this and all the rest. Now, you know, good on them for having a go. But I think the onus is on them to point to an example of where that's been a success before. And I, I don't think that there is any good example, but there's a lot of bad examples. And so we've got to keep that egalitarianism. You know, why did our ancestors or even in many cases ourselves come out here probably for a fair go and that's, that's something that we need to really champion.
I think that's so important. And I just, I wanted to ask, you have Maori lineage?
Yeah, I do, yeah.
And I think that's really incredible that one, that you do and two, that you can speak out and go, actually we've got to make it fair, we've got to make it equitable and if we don't, what's the risk? If we looked at other countries who've done it poorly, what would be a good example of how it could go wrong for us?
Well, I mean, look, there's many examples and you don't want to go to the worst of them. But certainly wherever a country has tried to make, you know, someone's background somehow important in terms of their political rights, I mean, you know, Ireland, of course, has a storied history based not around race as much as religion. You know, South Africa is a really obvious example. The United States has really had, you know, a quarter of a millennium of struggle to try and make that all men are created equal dream into a reality. And they're still struggling with that. So, you know, throughout history, have subjugated each other with prejudice and discrimination. You know, I think New Zealand, perhaps more than any other country, has actually realized the dream of equality. And it shouldn't matter that some of my ancestors were Mori. First of all, I'm human. And I think one thing people forget is, you know, that there is a political party called Te Parte Mori that represents this very divisive vision. However, last election, I think they got 1.2, 1.3% or 17% of Mori identify. Or of New Zealanders, sorry, identify as Mori. So as far as I can tell, they're representing about 6 or 7% of Mori. There are many of us who identify as Mori who don't agree with that vision at all. We actually see ourselves primarily as human beings, citizens of the world, New Zealanders, long before we get off into any sectarian division.
