From Formula 1 to Manchester United: Meet the Woman Behind Formula 1's Dynamic Rebrand

Roles in Honda, in Virgin Media, in Formula One and now at Manchester United.

Being a female hasn't been a barrier.

Your role at Formula One, global director for Marketing communications.

There was a perception that it was kind of boring. We were sort of reputation damaged. People either love you or they hate you. It can often be irrational. An elitist kind of billionaires boys club drive to survive. The Netflix documentary making Formula One relevant again. Brilliant things happen when people have different superpowers. It's never quite good enough.

How would you feel if I gave you some behind the scenes at Formula One and Manchester United? Well, today's your lucky day. That's right. Today's special guest is Ellie Norman. She's currently the Chief Communications Officer at Manchester United and she's former director, Global Director of Marketing and comms at Formula One. What she achieved at Formula One and what she's doing at Manchester United right now are next level. We're going to look at brand, both personal and team or corporate. We're going to look at the psychology of fans and she's going to go deep and really share some of the things that make high performing teams tick. I know you're going to love it, so please sit back and enjoy the show. NZ Mortgages is the proud sponsor of the Lead On Purpose podcast. You can check them out at nzmortgages Co nz. Ellie, a huge welcome to the Lead On Purpose podcast.

James, It's a real honor to be joining you today, so thank you for the invite.

Oh, absolute pleasure. Look, I'm just in awe of what you do and how you do it, how you carry yourself whilst you're doing it. And just for the person that hasn't met you yet, look, I look at your CV and I'm like, this is a superstar cv. So we're talking executive leadership roles in Honda, in Virgin Media, in Formula One and now at Manchester United. It's just phenomenal. When you set out in your career, did you have this grand vision of I'm going to do all these things, or was it more organic?

Wholly organic. With a heavy dollop of luck and the fortune to be surrounded by people who have seen something in me and they've been incredible promoters and sort of allies. So that's where I think I've been really fortunate.

It's incredible and I'm a big believer in that you create your own luck and you do that through passion and purpose and hard work and staying the course. So I imagine there might have been difficult times along that journey where you've had to really persist.

Most definitely. And in fact, there's a brilliant, brilliant company called Amazing if, run by two ladies, Sarah and Helen, and they talk about squiggly careers versus perhaps the. The impression that people have in terms of a ladder. And I would say through.

Through all of my experience to date, I've always been incredibly open to following the path less trodden, the squiggly path, or challenging that status quo. And it does mean it's often not the easiest path. But I think when you get to.

When you get to your destination one, the journey's inevitably been memorable. And actually, I think you can. You can often kind of look back with a real sense of, kind of pride of what's been sort of achieved collectively in the teams that you've been a part of, when you've sort of faced challenges and inevitably, it's those moments you learn the most.

100%. And it's interesting, you talk about the teams. The reason I met you is one of your team members at Formula one was speaking so highly about. Of how you led and your compassion and your vision. And so she introduced us about a year ago. And that says a lot when people walk away from having worked with you, going, that was the best boss I've ever had in my career. So what do you think makes a good boss?

I think.

There'S a few things that I carry with me, James, and it starts.

Really with, as a human being, treating people the way that you want to be treated. And for me, that's with honesty, respect, sort of transparency, and starting from a place of trust and a belief that everyone is capable of incredible things. And then for me, I think my role as a sort of leader is actually to be able to create an environment or a culture or to lift those up around me, because actually, everyone has a superpower and brilliant things happen when people have different superpowers. And you say, well, how can we bring that together and.

Find the places where they can be complementary to each other? And I think so often now in society, in the world.

Everything is about driving difference versus kind of finding that sort of common ground where we can be.

Bringing people together, sort of no matter where they come from different backgrounds. And I think that's. That's kind of true of when you're creating teams as well, 100%.

And when you think about your journey. So I speak to a lot of incredible leaders that have had different experiences, but as a female in some of the more dominant male sports, has there been any challenges? Have you seen any walls or ceilings that you've had to break through.

Truthfully.

I genuinely feel that in my career to date.

Being a female hasn't been a barrier in sort of anything that I've done. And I think that's partly because I've always demonstrated a hard working sort of work ethic.

A curiosity to want to sort of learn and really throw myself into like whatever projects are happening. And equally.

The promoters I've had and the allies I've had have been.

Really open minded and very sort of forward thinking in terms of just recognizing that diversity tends to deliver better commercial results. And actually that's been super helpful as well as, you know, they've often had daughters or.

Sisters or, you know, a number of women in their life where they have also seen the sort of value on, in promoting sort of women and making that sort of path perhaps easier than it was 10, 20, 30 years ago. And so personally I haven't felt like I've reached a glass ceiling or I've been held back because I've been, because I've been a woman. And I think the, the really important thing that I always try to do is just to reframe things. So what that doesn't mean, James, is it doesn't mean that sometimes you go into a room and you have a look around, you catch yourself and you go, wow, I'm in the minority here. Now you could either allow that voice to carry and perhaps be more recessive.

And be sort of quite fearful about being in the minority, or what I always try to do is to turn that voice down and to reframe that into saying, well, this is an opportunity. Because if you are a minority, then how can you be memorable for the right reasons? And so is that through a different perspective, being able to bring a level of objectivity because you've had experiences from outside a sector or an industry that we could all sort of benefit from discussing and sort of learning. And so I try to turn down the voice that's the gremlin and sort of turn up the sort of positive reframing voice into how to approach it.

Really powerful. And it really, to me it sounds like our perception shapes our reality and we are actually in control of managing our own perception of a situation, of where we sit in that environment as well. It's really powerful. Thank you for sharing that. And also, like, if we look at Formula one, I'm a big fan, I love it. And I've always known as a kid growing up in Belfast, Northern Ireland, it was always on the tv, we'd watch it, we'd sit down, but it wasn't like it is today. Things three or four years ago changed hugely. So I'm sitting in New Zealand, got Netflix and I see this thing come up, Drive to survive. I was like, that looks interesting, what's that? And I got hooked. And then I'm chatting to friends all over the world and they're all hooked. I've got a particular friend in Seattle and he's around 50 years of age, never really had been much interested in Formula One, kind of knew what it was. Now he is getting up at all hours to watch it live. He's signed up to all the fan stuff, he's booked trips to Singapore and all the other amazing places like Miami and wherever else. Melbourne. Now that's changed a lot. What changed there? You know, if we go back to your role at Formula One. So you were Global Director for Marketing and communications, is that right?

Yes. Yeah.

Amazing. So what was your role in that? What changed?

That was the most exciting.

Five year journey. And I.

Joined Formula One in 2017 and that was the year that Liberty Media acquired the sport from Bernie. Bernie had built it to be an incredibly successful sport, but it was certainly recognized that it had been in decline. So it had an aging fan base. There was a perception that it was kind of boring, a little bit like perhaps cars going around the M25, if you're familiar with the UK slow moving motorway. And so joining there was a real sort of dream. And I worked for a couple of super guys, two American guys called Chase Carey, who was the CEO of Formula One, and a guy called Sean Bratches, who was the sort of md. And.

It was, it was really, when you go to somewhere and you can create a really.

Tangible, visceral kind of problem and then actually that becomes your North Star for how are we going to solve this problem?

And so actually we really simplified it into.

Making Formula one relevant again. And actually that sort of problem of trying to sort of fix was a perception of it being an elitist kind of billionaires boys club. And.

There was kind of really useful data points to sort of point to this is what we needed to sort of address. And I always think having a little bit of provocation is also quite helpful. And at the time you could type into Google and I remember sort of typing into Google, Formula One is. And the first three things that came up in 2017 were, is not a sport is dying and is boring.

Wow.

And so that's so clear, the clarity that you get from that saying, right, this is our Problem statement. And then it's a case of, right, how do we almost look at the opposite? And so that became absolutely crystal clear for us in Formula 1, what is it that we needed to sort of address? And so we really had to revitalise the sport, make it relevant again for fans. And that's the existing kind of core fans. But actually, how do we also renew that fan base and bring new fans into the sport and actually drive to survive? The Netflix documentary was Sean's sort of idea of like, we should do a documentary series. This sport is wild. The politics, the stories are people. And so it became a fantastic kind of marketing lever because actually part of the, part of the sort of feeling of the sport being boring and dying was because it was so clinical, heavily engineered, that no one knew the human beings within the sport. And so what we started to talk about was essentially when man and machine come together and this sense of almost like engineered insanity, that when you put those two elements together.

The impossible is achieved because a human being's body should not be able to drive at those speeds. And for the body to withstand the level of G force that these drivers do, they are phenomenal athletes. So the drive to survive idea was Sean's let's do a documentary. And a number of the streamers came forward with sort of proposals. And then certainly from my perspective on the marketing, it was like, this is fantastic because I don't have a marketing budget that would allow me to create this number one and number two equally. It's finding and knowing.

The level of confidence to be able to know what you're brilliant at in house. And actually when can you have enough bravery and courage to essentially trust a partner to tell your story better than you can? And, you know, Netflix phenomenal long form storytellers at Formula One, phenomenal storytellers at directing and producing the race. But I don't think that we would have told those stories the way that Netflix told those stories. And so for me, it became a incredible marketing lever alongside some of the other initiatives that we were sort of implementing at the time. And it was really layering everything to say, right, how can we attract a new audience and what do we need to do to better serve our existing kind of fan base that has been with the sport for decades.

It's incredible. And as, as people are listening or watching this, if they're in businesses and maybe, let's say they're not in sport, this equates to their customers, this equates to their fans, and what is it that you Think makes fans tick. What makes us human tick?

It's a brilliant question. I, I often think about the differences that exist between consumers, subscribers and fans. And we're all consumers kind of every day. And that can often be just a one off transaction.

Subscription is all about forming those kind of habits because it is that sort of ongoing, kind of monthly. But for me, fans just cut so differently. Fan is about an emotional bond and a connection and it can often be irrational, full of feelings, perhaps really hard to articulate, but it really comes down to that emotional sort of bond. And I think that that really exists wholeheartedly in all sports and maybe, you know, even more so in football being the sort of dominant world sport that it fundamentally is about identity and belonging. You are part of a tribe.

I think for me, when I look back in Northern Ireland, you know, 100%, sorry to interject. I think back in Northern Ireland, I think of the football teams we had, the people would get so behind it becomes part of the culture, becomes part of the rhetoric at the pub, at school. Like it's, it's in our culture and we care deeply about the highs and lows of our teams, yet, you know, we don't see all teams get this right, something like Man United, for example. Almost every country I travel to, whether it's Dubai, South Africa, America, Fiji, I will see a Manchester United jersey without a doubt in every country. That's not normal in terms of like reach. That's. It's phenomenal.

It is special.

How do you create something like that? Is that just luck? Is that intentional? Is that storytelling? What are the ingredients?

So clearly that's something that I have not created, having been with a club for only two years. But I do think the more that I.

The more time I spend learning about the history of Manchester United, I do, I really genuinely believe there are some really special.

Components.

And with those, with those kind of clubs and those sports, they are, they're the fabric of that community. And it, it really kind of meshes and stitches everything together. And I think if I look back to Manchester United sort of history.

Out of the tragedy of the Munich air disaster, I really think that put Manchester United on a, on the world stage following that sort of disaster. And actually, no matter whether you were a fan of Manchester United at the time or another football club, I think everyone came out in support and in unity for the club following that sort of disaster. And I think the support that was shown and you know, football is family. So I think that really was the first kind of moment.

That Manchester United was on that world stage, and that came from the club being actually so progressive and so innovative as like the first English club to be sort of going out and playing in Europe and sort of leading the way in that regard. And then I think you've had incredible highs and lows and with that sort of phenomenal kind of managers like Sir Alex Ferguson, where you've had real kind of lows and a sort of risk of relegation right the way through into sort of what Sir Alex was able to achieve.

With, with the sort of 13 Premier League titles and obviously the two sort of champions League as well. So that for me is another sort of element in terms of the shares of resilience the club has consistently shown with some incredibly, incredibly strong leaders through its history to date.

And clearly winning helps. And I think you put all of that together.

And, you know, timing is also a big part of luck. So all of that time of Manchester United being sort of the most successful club would have also corresponded with a time where, from a media rights perspective, the Premier League was also being sort of broadcast in many more places around the globe. And obviously Manchester United was right at the top of the tree in terms of kind of winning and the success during that time. And I think that really set the foundations in place. And then, as we're sort of.

All aware, so many people's sports clubs also get passed down through generations within a family.

So in most cases, you will change your job more frequently than you'll ever change the sports team that you follow. And we know that sports clubs, sports teams are often chosen at an incredibly young age, sort of between the ages of 5 to 9 years old. And so, you know, setting those foundations, media rights, distribution, the resilience of the team in the highs and lows, great leaders, and then over time, just also recognizing fandom is passed down through generations. And we've had always had, I think, a really intoxicating mix of youthful talent that people feel proud to see where they've kind of come from. Homegrown talent and then almost like a couple of stars in the squad as well. And I think that's the kind of mix that has helped Manchester United to be one of the most powerful brands in global football.

Yeah, so beautifully articulated. I love that. It's interesting we talk about brand. So I remember sitting in Northern Ireland, I was probably 16 and in a little working class village, got this call and I didn't really have massive aspirations. I was very competitive, but I didn't really see myself leaving this little town and didn't really see myself earning much money, more than minimum wage. And I got this phone call from New Zealand. And I remember putting my hand over the phone going, dad, where's New Zealand? And he laughed. He kind of shrugged his shoulders. And all I could think of was the black fern or the silver fern, Jonah Lumu and the All Black. And that was like, all that came to mind. And back then I was like, okay, I can kind of get a picture of what New Zealand is. But now as an adult, I'm thinking, wow, that branding at its best. I thought of New Zealand, an entire country, simply through an emblem that represented a team, which was the All Blacks, and an individual stuck out, which was John Olumu, which might be the equivalent of Ronaldo or something like that. That represents Man United. That's powerful. How do we create a global brand, whether it's a personal brand, whether it's a corporate brand or a sporting brand, how do we start building one of them? It might take us 20 or 30 years to get there, but where's the starting point of building a solid brand?

Oh, I think you're absolutely right.

When you look at some of the most powerful brands in the world.

They all share, I think, some, I'm going to say, some consistent elements. For me personally, it always starts with why. So having absolute clarity as to why do you exist.

What is it that you're there to kind of solve.

And what do you stand for? And I think if you look at those powerful brands, whether it's the New Zealand, All Blacks, Manchester United, Adidas, Nike, Guinness.

They all are Apple, super, super clear.

What their why is. I also then think when you get down into.

The level down, they know not only why they exist, they also know who are they talking to and who are they not talking to. And then there are a number of elements, like.

Distinguished kind of brands, assets, whether it's colors, whether it is logos, emblems, there is a level of consistency that you see these brands use time and time and time again. And as human beings, we love shortcuts. And so actually, all the time, our mind just wants a shortcut. And so by putting these elements together and not changing with them, not playing with it, despite the fact that, you know, inevitably in your kind of marketing function, you might be a little bit bored to a real person out there. They are not seeing it at the level that you're seeing it or with that same frequency. And those are the bits where it's like, no, don't mess with it. Keep building upon it. Keep building upon it. But it's like, why do we exist? Who are we talking to? What do we want that person to think, feel or do as a result?

It's incredible. Now, I want to ask you, do you feel that Formula one, when you walked away from there and moved on, do you feel like you achieved that? I mean, I've got my opinion. I think you smashed it out of the park in terms of what has been achieved with the brand and people knowing what it's about, knowing what you do. But how do you feel that you operated.

When you sort of look back?

It's fantastic to look back and to see the change, James, when you're in it every day, I don't think we really.

Appreciated perhaps the.

Change that we were implementing, but it was such a superb team of everyone, just full of energy, clear on what we were doing and just literally kind of getting up, running at things with speed, testing it. Come on, let's go again.

And now I look back and I think, wow.

The team achieved some incredible things during that sort of time, from.

Changing the identity of the sport.

Revitalizing it, attracting a new audience.

Getting into.

Music, fashion, gaming.

Thinking about the experience at the race. So whether, you know, it was evolving and changing grid girls to kind of grid kids and being part of those local communities.

The work around.

The work around.

We race for one. And essentially the sort of de and I that's now, you know, so many years on. I left in.

April 2022. Now I look back and thought, wow, actually an awful lot was achieved by a team of brilliant people during a relatively short amount of time. And that does make me feel really proud, actually.

You should be. It's incredible. You've revitalized the sport globally and you've activated, I think, a lot more fans. I don't know the exact stats, but I believe their subscribers were maybe around 700k and they grew to about 10 million. Am I right on those numbers?

There was huge kind of growth of subscribers, people that wanted to sign up because actually the sort of emails that we were sending were of value. Great stories, not transactional.

The mix of fans really sort of change from a demographics point of view. So a change in the amount of female fans, fans from younger demographics. So real big, real big swings, actually. And importantly, the sort of growth overall. And that helped to really underpin.

Partners and partners, businesses, and then sort of equally the Formula one teams themselves and the sort of partners that became a much more viable, profitable sport for everyone involved.

It's incredible. I love it. And there's something. It's called an obsession metric. So a friend of mine was the CEO of Yum Brands, which was like kfc, Pizza Hut and they're not very healthy brands, but. And he talks about an obsession metric and he says, james, we need to have one thing that we measure obsessively, that we as leaders obsess over that one thing at Manchester United. Now your new role, well, it's not so new anymore. You're well embedded there. What's the one thing that you're like? That's my job. That's my goal and my mission. Do you have one?

Yes.

Engagement. And.

You know, prior to me joining, there was obviously the European Super League and huge kind of fallout for anyone who is a sort of football fan. Huge fallout from the idea of even creating a European Super League. And you know, that never went ahead, but that really did in sort of 20, 21 damage the relationship that existed between the club and. And its supporter base. And so sort of then with myself joining and the club pulling together essentially all of the different sort of, let's say, engagement touch points, whether that was PR and media content, brand creative sort of fan engagement more broadly, thinking about that as almost.

In a more holistic sort of view. Everything that the team and I think about is through that lens of engagement. So how do we really increase the salience with our supporters so that actually the degree to which they think about us improves? We haven't got an awareness issue, but post the European Super League, we absolutely had.

A. We were sort of reputationally damaged in terms of how our fans thought about us. And that is. That is the one thing that we obsess about is what are we doing to improve the relationship with our fans, no matter where they are in the world? And it's really easy to say that, James. It's really hard to do because we've got incredible supporters that have had season ticket for 40 odd years.

Incredible supporters that live close to Old Trafford and will be frequently coming to matches.

We've got supporters clubs now, 300 supporters clubs across the world in 80 countries. A high proportion of those people may never get the opportunity to come to Old Trafford, but they are no less of a fan or a supporter because they can't physically come. And you've got countless nuances from culture and language and different demographics. And it's our job to really think about how do we best.

Build a relationship with our fans and supporters and better serve them so that they feel closer to us. So how can we.

Bring them to us and Allow them to feel like they are, they're part of the club.

That's amazing. And I think obviously that would be an incredible challenge. Is there a way that you can measure that? Can you measure the growth or success of engagement? Is there certain metrics that you're looking out for?

With feedback we do, I mean, the brilliant thing, I always think, again, the really brilliant thing with sports, and particularly with teams, is people either love you or they hate you. Right. So different to most other types of business where.

You people don't really love you.

And so what you do have is you have.

Constant instant feedback. So as soon as you do anything, you have a pretty good idea as to how your fans and supporters will respond to that and how the media will respond to that. And so you have just a constant feedback loop. And that's really, really powerful.

So we're always looking to understand that better because that is our sort of research, qualitative kind of research.

And then, you know, as with most things now, data is so much more readily available. And so it's really important for myself and the team that number one, we listen to our fans and supporters.

In terms of what they like, what they don't like. We can't do everything, but it's our job to be able to kind of gather that feedback from research. And then if we do sort of do anything, it's also for us to really understand, has that been effective? Was that something that worked for fans? And you know, that's, that's as much about, well, how many people came to an event or a watch party to see does that work through to.

Did we tell that story well? So we've recently created, for example.

Some short form content about fanzines. So as you will kind of appreciate, fanzines are such an important.

Aspect of the sport. And so this short form content was us as a club going and speaking to three fanzines to really understand where has the fanzine culture come from and how do they serve our supporters. And actually for us, it's really important to be again, reading the feedback to see, has that resonated? Is it relevant? How did that make people think about us as a club? Because we're recognizing our independent fanzines who pour their life into the club. How are we being seen? Because we're giving them a platform and helping to drive, say, subscribers to their fanzines as well. Because it's a really important element of football community. And they're the things, for me, James, that you're always balancing the big kind of Reach pieces, but they're the things for me when we sit down and we talk as a team. Fundamentally, if we're going to build relationships with people, it tends to come down to do we have good stories to tell.

That means that people just want to come together and discuss those stories more and more.

And that for me is really important. And that's why engagement is my obsessive metric.

That's incredible. And I see engagement for any organization, sporting or not, as the lifeblood. Like, if you're measuring your engagement, like, hey, we've got something that's growing and people want to be a part of. And if you don't have engagement, it's the absolute opposite. And I imagine with, you know, I've known some people that have worked for you and they talk about how much they've loved it, but I imagine you've worked in environments where some teams have been high performing and some maybe haven't. What do you think are the ingredients of the teams you've been a part of that? You're like, yes, this is high performance. This is epic.

Oh. So I think, as you know, you know, at the club we're, we've got some new shareholders with Sir Jim Ratcliffe and Sir Dave Brailsford and it's fair to say that they will be.

I'd say, right at the pinnacle of what building high performing teams are. So I'm sure they'll be far more eloquent in sort of talking about it. For me, high performing team comes down to a few kind of key elements. Number one, all being really, really clear on why are we doing what we do?

And that sort of North Star of where are we going? So everyone is really clear on what is our destination.

The other thing for me is creating an environment and a culture where everyone recognizes.

The role that they play within the team and that is an equally important role. So no one person.

Is more important than the other. We need each other in order to succeed. And thirdly, for me, it then comes down to everyone knowing that they are trusted to be the best versions of themselves and that as leaders, we are here to create an environment where they feel they can speak up, challenge, share ideas, and that essentially we're going to remove problems or blockages.

Incredible. Thank you for describing it in such a nice way, a distilled way that we can all kind of grasp because I think so many people want high performance, but they're like, what does that look like and feel like? My next question is, is high performance for everyone?

Oh, now that.

I would say no because I think with high performance and I think.

I've really valued being part of high performance teams and I know it's something I get really energized by and I think that comes from a sense of.

Being constantly curious and actually.

Never complacent and not wanting to settle. So always thinking about, well, how can we improve that? Or it's never quite good enough.

And that I know is what sort of drives me. Now that may be incredibly frustrating and infuriating for some people and actually perhaps then that wouldn't be a great environment for them to be a part of. But I think it really comes with learning about yourself and having that self awareness to know, well, what environment will you thrive in?

And therefore, you know, you said it earlier, James, we all have choice. Sometimes it's not an easy choice, but as individuals we all have a responsibility to take a decision.

And you can either put yourself into that environment or you can remove yourself from that environment. But I don't think that everyone will thrive being part of a high performing team.

Yeah, 100% agree. I think it's a very uncomfortable place for many people to be because it is fast moving, it's very goal oriented. We're looking for outcomes and KPIs and measurements. Not everyone loves that environment. So I think there's a certain person, a certain psychology that's required to thrive in high performance. When I look at your cv, it's like all of those places are very high performing and fast moving. So I imagine you have this ability to adapt but also you must have an ability to help others, help you identify your blind spots. Because we've all got weaknesses, we've all got things that we don't know. What have you done over the years to try and ensure that the blind spots that you don't even know are there? What have you done to kind of put safeguards and measure for that.

Surround yourself with phenomenal people that complement you.

Ask for feedback.

And be curious. So there is so much that I don't know that I know I don't know.

And it's about continuing to widen the.

What you don't know, you don't know. So make that as small as possible and increase the I know what I don't know because if I increase that I can do something about it which is be curious and learn and improve myself and equally building teams of really know what are my strengths and what am I not so good at and then actually have your team so that you have people with complementary strengths. And I genuinely believe that's okay because not everyone is going to be brilliant at everything.

Yeah. Nor do we want to have people who do everything for everyone because in the end they're nothing to anyone. We want people who specialize with certain traits and skills and behaviors. And I imagine it's at some level it's stressful. Of course, life is stressful. But in the environments that you're in, there must be some degree of stress. What have you done that has worked for you, like personally with your health, your mental well being, to continue on the journey?

Yeah.

Humility. So I think always having a healthy dose of humility and really recognizing.

That I love working and I love the jobs that I do, but also, James, I'm not saving any lives. And when I look across.

Friends and family that genuinely are on the front line, I'm in a really, really privileged position. So for me, that's a fantastic leveler and just keeps me super grounded.

To.

Take seriously what I do, but don't take myself seriously.

And then I often sort of follow a little bit of my own sort of mantra, which is keep my shed intact. And that for me is a combination of sleep.

Am I getting like good quality sleep? Am I staying sort of hydrated through the day? So sleep. I mean, I'm most probably in a really good place if I'm getting seven hours sleep a night. Hydration. I get really confused between am I hungry or am I actually thirsty? Because I genuinely love food so much. So hydration is not. Have sort of 3 liters of water a day.

Exercise.

And I like to start my days like, you know, as soon as I wake up, that first hour I'm in control of. And that's when I do my exercise. And that helps me feel energized and kind of good before I then typically will sit on my bum and do a lot of meetings and then diet. And I take. I take real genuine.

Care, actually, and passion with food. I love to cook. And again, for me, just having, I'd say, a fairly well balanced kind of diet, but the joy of food as well. They're my four things that I'll kind of constantly be thinking about to sort of keep me in a good place. And I am an absolute sucker for travel adventures. So it's the one thing I say to my husband, we'll spend money on holidays, but I genuinely think it's the one thing that makes you richer because it's an opportunity to. To again, reset, to recognize that as humans we are pretty.

Well, we're Significantly insignificant in the, in the ecosystem.

And just to see other cultures and, you know, that rich tapestry going across your eyes, smells, all your senses. I love travel.

I'm with you on that 100%. We'll have to get you down to New Zealand. It'd be great to have you down here and check it out.

My stepdad is a Kiwi, so I've grown, grown up with a lot of love for New Zealand and obviously got family, family still there as well. Special place.

Need to bring you down for sure. Well, I think that those tactics, I'm really glad you shared those and they're important because we all go through different challenges and stressors, but it's brilliant to bring it back to what's simple, what works and sticking to that. Ellie, I want to be just mindful of your time and I've got one last question. I'd love you to fast forward into the future, many, many years into the future, and you know that it's your very last day here on Earth and someone very young that you care deeply about comes into the room and says, ellie, how do I go about leading my life on purpose? What would you say to them?

Oh.

Gosh, what a moving question.

I would say to them, find the beauty in the everyday.

Find joy, find love and.

Be curious.

It's beautiful. I know there's a listener or a viewer right now that just needed to hear that and that'll be landing for them exactly as they needed it. So thank you for sharing it. And Ellie, I truly admire the work you do and I'm excited over the next 10 and 20 years to watch what you do and who you impact. And you mentioned a minute ago, James, I'm not saving lives. I'm going to argue that and disagree and say that the work you do at Manchester United, particularly, I know the impact that has on small communities. And I go back to Northern Ireland and I look at the working class times. Manchester United kept people together, gave people some hope during difficult times, certainly in Northern Ireland. So in some ways, I think you are saving lives. You're impacting people's emotions, you're giving them a sense of belonging, deep sense of belonging. And for a lot of people, that's what could keep them, hey, I'm in for another day. I'm not going to end things. So in a lot of ways, don't sell yourself short. You're doing incredible work.

Thank you. That means a great deal. I've got so much admiration and respect for.

People who genuinely are sort of on the front line of things with our services, healthcare, teachers.

Police, fire, you know. So I don't often think about it in the way that you've articulated it, but I absolutely recognize just how important.

Sports is to people's identity and belongings. So thank you.

No, absolute pleasure. And Ellie, I definitely believe this will be the first of many chats on the show, so thank you so much for creating the space and time, James.

I really enjoyed it, so thank you.

NZ Mortgages is the proud sponsor of the Lead on Purpose podcast. You can check them out at nzmortgages co NZ.