This is a recorded interview (James Laughlin with Darren Shand) exploring the cultural significance, creation, and stewardship of the haka as performed by the New Zealand All Blacks. Darren Shand frames the haka as a ritual of connection, trust, challenge, and remembrance—designed to bind teammates and link them with ancestors (noting the practice of beginning on the ground). He contrasts older haka (Kamati/Kaimiti) with the team-specific Kapa Pango (Kapau Pango), explaining its meaning—'the surging mass of black'—and the spiritual, symbolic power of the All Blacks jersey. The transcript describes the collaborative creation process for Kapa Pango with Derek Laudelli (gifted to the team), the first public lead by Tana Umaga in 2005 (Dunedin), the establishment of a guardianship group to prevent commercial misuse, and sensitivity to local iwi protocols when performing certain haka.
Questions this video answers
October 20, 2023
Tana Umaga led it for the first time in 2005 in Dunedin.
Derek Laudelli (credited as the creator/gifter).
Chapters
As well. A lot of people from whether they're in Hawaii or in Ireland, they always talk to me about the haka and how inspiring it is. So for the listener or the viewer that's watching right now, they're going, what's the haka about? What is the meaning behind it? How would you frame it?
I think haka is about connection. It's about feeling your brother beside you. It's about preparing. It's about challenge. It's all of those things. It's about remembering those that have been before. Some of them, you know, there's no. This part of kapau panga, the haka that we designed ourselves, the reason we start on the ground is to connect with those that are in the ground, you know, and it's also quite arrogant to start from the ground when you look at your enemy and you look up at them from below.
So there's a whole lot of that in it. I think.
There'S also just that.
Notion of just really being connected before a challenge and really knowing that, that whole sense that when we go out and play, you've got me, I've got you, there's that sense of trust. And we feel that through. Through the process of doing haka. So I think it's, yes, just a real, real connection. And, you know, I guess in the case of Kamati, the ancient hakka, it's honoring, you know, a tradition of a long time. And then with kapau pangau, that was our own, and that talks to us and our blackness and the silver fern and the kapau pango literally means, you know, the surging mass of black. And I think all that adds to it.
It's incredible. Thank you for letting me inside there and understanding that and that sense of blackness. Because often there's connotations of blackness, you know, being darkness, and it's not light. Of course, black is a darker color, but what does it mean in that sense?
I don't think we believe we've got black blood. You know, when we put that jersey on, it's like. It's like putting on a Superman cape, you know? Yeah, that's what the players say. Like, they put it on and just watch the rituals of players receiving their jerseys and what it means to them. And, you know, it's more than the fabric. You know, it's. It's something more. I remember Roy Keane, you know, the footballer, he. He came and spoke to us once, and he was talking about. He was a Manchester United man through and through, and he got off this Offered this ridiculous money to go and play for Bayern Munich, you know, and he went there and they put the shirt on him and he just went, nah, it's not right, you know, And I think that's the same, you know, like, it's not red, you know, and it's not. I don't feel like Manchester United. And I think that's the same for our guys, you know, like, there's something, I guess that just goes with the history that's been around the jersey and the success and putting on. It's a statement. When you put it on, it means something. It comes from a strong place. It says, you know, this team is the most successful team in sports history. You know, not rugby team. Yeah. But any of all time. And. And that's not a. That's a privilege, you know, and it's like, wow, what an opportunity to add to that. What an opportunity to build more. What's the next challenge? What can we do? What's no one else done? You know, like, that's what I love about it. It's like, well, what's the next again? You know, what's the next Everest? What has no one else done before? What can we pioneer? Like Dave Gallagher in the 1905 team did, went over there for six months, played, I don't know, 100 games or something ridiculous. And had to get on a boat and come home. So you've got all of that rich tapestry that was before us that we're very connected to.
And in terms of. There was the original hacker and you guys have created this new hacker. What informed the creation of that? What depth did you go to to research and make sure that really aligned with the player base?
Probably the genesis of the idea was that the players felt that they didn't have real meaning with Kamati. And it had almost become a commercial thing rather than what it was intended for. So first we relearned Kamati and with a general called Derek Laudelli, who hails from Whangaraap and his Hapus, Whanganah, which is just north of Gisborne, where the whale rider was. Actually, that's where he's from. And Derek is. I call him Royal Mori because he's from. He's from the mountain. His mountain is Hekurangi, which is the first mountain on the east coast to see the sun. And so that's where he comes from. And he's a very spiritual man and very. He's one. He's probably the best orator in Mori and New Zealand. He's A carver. He does moko. He's a clever man. And he's a. His hap have won Tamatateni, which is the kapa haka competition, a number of times. So he was the best, you know, like the best get the best, you know? Yeah, absolutely. And so, yeah, we just sat around a hotel one night. I think Tanaumanga was a big part of it at that time. He was a captain. And we just said to Derek, we want to design something that talks about us, you know. And I just remember we sat in a room with Graham Henry and a few others, a few players, and we just came up with this concept. And then Derek went away and. And created something that talked to that. And then Tana was the first Pacific player to lead the haka. And he led the first. First time he did it in 2005 in Dunedin. And so that's. And we've kind of kept. That's like our best. We keep that for real big occasions, you know, this year we've bought. We call it. You know, we've got the two brother and sister, you know, Kamati and Kapongo. So we. We alternate sometimes and we're respectful of local Iwi, and Kamati is Ngti Toa, and it talks about Te Rpraha, and he was a very savage Maori warrior. So the South Island IWI don't like us doing it down there so much. Because you're thoughtful, what you do. Yeah, you got to be careful. Yeah, we'd always do it in Wellington because that's where Ngtoa, that's where Kamati comes from. So. Yeah, that's very cool. And actually probably the thing just in finishing on there, the thing I loved was actually when Derek, when we finished the creation of that and he gifted it to us, and what I learned was actually he gifted something that was way bigger than just the haka, because that was gifting their culture and saying, yeah, it's okay. We're giving you this taong, this treasure. Please use it. Please look after it. To this day, we have a guardianship group that looks after it and responsible for it not becoming a commercial. Like, if we get asked for anything too crispy. No, that's like, this is a team's haka. It's just for matches. It doesn't go anywhere. So we don't let it get used commercially in any way.
Respect.
Yeah, it's just. It's what it was intended for, you know, so it's. Yeah, it's a special. It's not all of us but it's a. Again, it's one of those aspects that shapes who we are and helps us be a brotherhood together.
A real spiritual exchange. That was that. He gifted that to you?
Yeah, yeah. No, and I could see the day he did it. You could see it in him, you know, like he was giving. Giving something that was pretty remarkable, you know, because when, you know, if you think back to history, they had nothing. You know, they had. They had land. But then, you know, our friends arrived from across. Across the seas and had guns and power and, you know, and they lost it, but they never lost that incredible.
