High Performance Habits with Adam Whitelock

Adam, a massive welcome to the Lead on Purpose podcast.

Thank you, James. I'm excited to be here.

Oh, mate, I've been waiting for this moment for a long time. Obviously we've got a great connection, a great friendship and we enjoy each other's company. But I thought, you know what, it'd be great to share some of our amazing conversations with the world and with our listeners. You're just an incredible person, a phenomenal athlete. When I look at what you've done as an athlete, it's amazing. And what's so great about that is life after rugby is just as exciting and challenging and everything that you do is family centered and so that. There's just so many things I want to unpack today that so many of our listeners will want to learn about. So I guess a starting point is, you know, when I look at you, I just see someone who's a real high performer and high performance is something I geek out on, as you know. So when you think of high performance, you know, where was the starting point? Why do you think high performance is part of your psyche?

I think growing up with my three brothers, the competitive nature of having three brothers within five years. So that started from a really young age on the back lawn playing rugby, you know, playing on the farm, building huts.

That sort of sowed the seeds to ultimately lead to high performance. So it wasn't high performance probably came when I was first year academy at 18 down here in Christchurch with the rugby academy. But I think the routes to get me to that point started with my upbringing.

I love it. And yeah, so for those that are listening and maybe some of those international folks that are not so aware of rugby, rugby is an incredibly important part of New Zealand culture. New Zealand is the world's best at rugby time and time again. So you and all of your brothers, you've got three other brothers, are all and have been professional athletes in rugby, which is just incredible. So why did that happen? What was happening in the family in the background? Is there some history in terms of rugby?

Yeah, I have a proud rugby heritage. My grandfather played for the All Blacks in 1953. My dad played for the New Zealand under 21s. My mother's uncle was an All Black. My mother's brother in law was an all Black. Have many cousins and other family members who played rugby, I guess. Yeah, it was sort of growing up with the brothers. We played rugby.

Like I said, on the back lawn. But then we started at four or five years old and have played right through and built careers out of it. So, yeah, perhaps having a family history of rugby certainly helped.

Yeah, I bet, I bet. And I guess when I look at any of you incredible professional athletes, there's just something about the way you think and the way that you look at risk, the way that you look at hard work, and it's just different than most. So that kind of thinking was that part of, say, mom and dad or grandparents, was there some real hard work ethic from a family base at home?

Yeah, definitely. We're extremely lucky to be brought up on a dairy farm. So us as kids, our fun was, was outside building huts, you know, climbing trees, possum hunting.

You know, running around the farm. And as we got a bit older, was working on the farm, milking the cows, cutting firewood, you know, carting hay, covering silage stacks. So I think that really taught us, you know, the pr, having that practical upbringing was we were really fortunate and this gave us that slight harder edge, which no doubt playing rugby, those experiences of being brought up on a farm where things are real and practical certainly helped.

Yeah, I bet. And what's interesting is I've met one of your other brothers and both of you guys have a groundedness. Now, I haven't met the other two, but I'm sure there's a similar thread that goes through there that you have an ability to really connect with people and it's at a very genuine, it's in a very genuine way. There's no aloofness, there's no, hey, I was a professional athlete, I played at the top. You've got this real humanity about who you are. So just tell me a little bit more about that. So, you know, mom, dad, and how they told you to treat others and how they treat others, you know, where did that come from? Staying grounded as a professional athlete is not easy.

Yeah, we're always told to use our please and thank yous, show respect, you know, help the old lady across the street. We were brought up with that mentality, sort of that old school sort of mindset.

Yeah, we were, we were, you know, disciplined, you know, as children and told right from wrong. So, yeah, it really came from our parents and then their parents. So strong family values, definitely at the core.

That's amazing. And we talk about self discipline, right? And everybody that's listening right now, they want more self discipline in certain areas of their life. So to be a professional athlete, self discipline, it's a given, you've got to have it. But before self discipline comes, often there's discipline and that's From a parental standpoint. So we get disciplined, which helps us to understand what self discipline might look like. So in terms of discipline, did mom and dad hold quite high standards around what was acceptable and what wasn't?

Yes, certainly. You know, we had to sit up and eat dinner and finish a plate.

Yeah, there was like, we as growing up, you know, we were allowed to be kids and play, but for example, on Christmas Day, we would all go milk the cows and dad would give the staff time off. Now we would have to get up at 4 o' clock and go away and milk the cows till 8 o' clock and come back and we would open our presents and have the family lunch. But then in the afternoon we'll go back out to work. And we traditionally have done this since, you know, Perhaps we were 6, 7, 8 and an age like that. And we've gone every time we're at home, we're always expected to go down and help out on Christmas Day. And that's just an example of keeping humble, you know, helping out, never forgetting where you come from. Um, you know, even when we were professional athletes, we would go home and on Christmas Day we would help out on the farm. So just there was a weird example, I think, which is. Which has been great.

That's amazing. I love, I love to hear that. I'm sure there's other people smiling right now as they hear that, that simple act of coming together, connecting as a family, as a community, saying, you know what, let's do this, let's give our team, let's give our staff Christmas off and the kids and the parents will get this done. So you talk about going home. And again, I think that's an interesting one. So many people that are listening right now will not live where they grew up. So this culture nowadays is that we do travel and it's easy to travel and lots of people live in different places. I guess I'm an example of that. 12,000 miles from home. There's something about going home that really creates this nostalgia, but brings you back to where you started and just reminds you of what's important in life. So when you go home, when you go back up to the farm, how do you feel when you're there? What does it remind you about in terms of what's important in life?

Yeah, a lot of great memories.

Yeah, it's just great to reconnect with your family. Brings you back to your roots. It's great.

All I've gone on now, and I've got a wife and two young kids. And one on the way and my other brothers, we've all gone out and forged our own lives and careers. But if we get up home a couple times a year, it's great. It just, you know, that's where it all happened. That's where you grew up. So many great memories. Yeah, just a small place outside of Palmerston North. Not a big, Not a big place.

Yeah, it's. It's always great.

I love it and it's so interesting, Adam. So in our time together, you know, we've talked over the years about family a lot. You bring it up a lot. And it's a central part of what you talk about, what you think about, how you operate. So just for a second, when you think of family, what do you believe about family? So like globally, what's your beliefs about family in terms of what role it plays in life?

Yeah, I think it all starts the home base. You know.

That sort of, you know, home is. We're lovers and we're. You can always come back to that, support, that stability, you know, whenever, when I was in France or anywhere in the world, you know, you can always bring home and have the love and support from your family or your brothers or your sort of wider family. They're always there to support you through thick and thin.

I can see that with you, Adam. Your family is just so central to everything that you and I connect about and talk about. So let's go into, if you don't mind going into a little bit, to the rugby. I'd love to chat about the rugby. I'd love to chat about when you hit the academy, what started to happen there and what built from that, the Canterbury Academy and what blossomed from there. So when you arrived in Christchurch, the big smoke, what was it that changed? What did you have to get into? What were those big things you learned?

Yeah, it's really exciting. You know, you're leaving school as an 18 year old and coming from the north island down to the South Island. I was really fortunate. I got a spot in the Canterbury Rugby Academy.

And then I knew only knew two people in Christchurch. I had a bit of family from North Canterbury. But the first day you're walking in to do your gym session and Chris Jack was there and other All Blacks were in the gym and you were a bit starstruck as a young 18 year old. But it was great being in the Canterbury and the Crusaders environment because you're rubbing shoulders with these current All Blacks. So that's great because it provides inspiration. You sort of, you've around isn't on the same floor. And.

It'S actually quite a smart way of doing it because they're not isolating the top team over there, they're making them visible to young people. So it was very inspirational. Very tough years. I was studying full time and training every day of the week. A lot of my friends at university were partying every other night and I went to training and I sort of made a lot of sacrifices to go and put the hard work and I was getting, you know, I never had a dinner at normal time. It was always after nine, dinner put away in the, in the fridge for me when I got back to my, the uni halls. So it was, it was great. Those couple years of training really set me up to, to crack it in the third year. To have a decade of professional rugby, that's incredible.

And the word that really stuck out there, Adam, was sacrifice. And I look at anyone who's best in field and every single person who I've connected with, interviewed and asked questions of, they always talk about sacrifice. Now when you look back on that and you go, I didn't probably party as much as my friends. I probably did have to work twice as hard. I probably did get less sleep. Were those sacrifices all worth it?

Almost definitely. It was. I enjoyed the struggle because it was, it was very tough. It wasn't easy. We were training hard and.

Yeah, it made me very strong by, you know, having that discipline. But certainly when I made it and I was in that 30, I was being paid and then I was traveling the world and then I was the people I was mixing with and lucky enough to win a few titles. I mean those memories can never be taken away. And yeah, perhaps if I didn't work so hard, which I worked very hard, they might not have ever come. So yeah, I wouldn't, wouldn't change anything for it.

I love it. It's so interesting. A couple of things there I want to unpack. One, I enjoyed the struggle. That's awesome to hear. And so many people would push away and go, I don't want to struggle. So I want to talk about that. And the other thing, it's so interesting. So I've got many different people I've chatted to who know you and, and the one common theme that keeps coming up from all of them independently is like, hard work, super strong, super committed, goes the extra mile. But very hard work is who you are and it's at your core. So let's first of all unpack. I enjoyed the struggle.

So.

How did you get into a mindset where you could go, this is a struggle, but I'm going to enjoy this? What was going on up there?

Yeah.

I was always a hard worker and, you know, just going back a step. When I was at school, I used to get up and go for a run at 6 in the morning, and then you'd, you know, as a schoolboy, you'd train in the afternoon. Then I remember looking at my watch after training, might have another half an hour, so then I'd do an extra run around the block. But then when you're. When I'm after school and I'm down in the academy, you're just. That whole training level is going up a notch. So it's probably, you know, there are times where, you know, you might ring home and say it's pretty tough, or you might complain a bit and then you just. You're just getting reassurance from family or your academy managers. Stick in there, keep playing, playing well and turning up. And then, you know, certain time in the season, then you'd have a couple of good games and then you would realise you only played well because you stuck in there and you passed a lot of that. A lot of players might have been a lot more talented than myself, but they might have started missing sessions or.

Not being as committed and then you could see yourself passing them. So it was.

Rewarding to see the progress.

I bet. I bet. And if we talk about we can struggle and it'll be in discomfort, and then there's times when we go into, this is painful. So when you were kind of drifting between discomfort and pain, physically or mentally, how did you push through? Do you have a memory where, like, yeah, that was an incredibly tough time or tough session. How did you push through that?

Yeah, I think, like, the, the sessions were always tough. Physically, I. I enjoyed that. It's probably mentally, like, as a young kid, you know, just knowing that another training session, you just got to turn up.

But by recording that in your diary, by getting that momentum, once you got a few months behind you, you're sort of. You're building that momentum and then it becomes your new normal. So.

All of a sudden, what you're doing, you just. You adjust to it. So.

It'S just persistence and keeping going. Like, just keep. You just got to keep going. And that's the key.

Was there ever a time, Adam, where you were at a point where almost you're about to throw the towel and you're like, now this is too much?

Oh, you have your doubts, but there's sometimes, you know, I remember a key conversation with the Canterbury coaches. I thought I was working hard and playing well, but they pulled me aside and said, we need more of you. And it sort of took me by surprise. But through that desperation, I went out there next week and just went up a notch and scored four tries. And then that sort of kick started me to start playing really well that season. And I've always felt like you can either get inspiration or desperation. And there's been a lot of times, certainly I've had a lot of inspiration, but there's some desperation as well.

That's really cool. I appreciate you sharing that. And not everyone will know that, but you've mentioned a couple of times already, just in our conversation today, around other people, family, friends, coaches, managers, and just how they played a role in your success. So for the person that's listening right now, that's trying to go it alone, they're trying to do everything by themselves. Build their business, build their life. And I'm sure there's some athletes listening to try to go up without any help. What would you give them? Advice around having a team or having coaches or managers?

Yeah, you have to. You have to get help and have someone to keep you accountable, to support you, share your goals with, so they can understand where you're going. But as an athlete, you know, you have to have an open mind to be coachable, to learn.

Yeah. It's just important to get those four or five people, key people, around you in sport. For example, for me, my academy manager, my club coaches, my. The trainer in the gym, skills coach.

Yeah, your family, it's really important to just. They're there to support you. And also, when times are tough, they can. You can just be a shoulder to lean on.

That's brilliant.

Yeah.

When you're at the top of your game, you're flying high, and you know the media are right behind you, it's going great. And somebody in your team, say your coach, your manager, your family comes over and they have some critical feedback, like, hey, I don't like that. I don't. I think you should do this better. But as an athlete, sometimes you've got this ego, which is a healthy part of being an athlete. You need it. But how do you switch that off for a second and go, you know what? Rather than be defensive to that criticism, I need to listen to it? Have you had that moment where you felt like you might just be defensive and then went, no, no, no, this is. This is for my betterment? They're doing this for the good.

Yeah, you certainly, you can get, get defensive when someone gives you constructive criticism. But I feel like if you sort of sit down and, you know, build a relationship with them and then you get to the point where you see them as trying to help you and you don't get defensive, but you have to get to know them and build that relationship before. So it's just spending time together.

And then when they come up with their honest feedback, you really do see it as feedback because a lot of the time you might see them as a bit of a personal attack, but no, they're actually just trying to help. So it's just being.

Connected and really tight before that, getting to know each other so that when those tough conversations happen, they can, you can take it on the chin and really listen.

That's really, really powerful in terms of building trust and respect and that relationship. Before you start to give advice or before you start to criticize, take.

Yeah, definitely. And I like, you definitely need good, honest feedback. But I always responded well to good positive reinforcement. It just motivated you more as well. So I always think it's better to, you know, give good feedback and positive reinforcement more often. But you still have to have an open mind to sometimes get the honest truth.

Yeah, 100%. And if we think about the academy and then what ended up happening with Canterbury Crusaders, and so tell me about some of those highlights. So once you started to get up into that higher end of professional rugby, what were some of those key highlights with Canterbury?

Yeah, there's lots of highlights, but, you know, one year 2014, being voted players Player of the Year was special because it's the guys left and right of you that you go to battle with and they vote, you know, after each game, player of the day or the worker of the day. And at the end of the season, the person with the most votes got Warrior of the Year. So that was special. You know, playing with my brothers was, was really cool. And over in Africa and some of these hostile environments, your first games, you never forget, certainly you don't forget winning your championships. Those moments. Special.

Yeah, there's. There's lots of other sort of games here and there, but winning a world title with the New Zealand Sevens was. Was special over. Over in England.

I mean, that's incredible. Like, when you think about that, to win a world championship in anything, but to do it in Sevens. For anybody that hasn't watched Sevens, I mean, you've got to jump on and check out some Sevens. It's just high pace, it's full on. It's very skills based on it's short, sharp. You've got to be switched on mentally. So what was the difference for you? Because to me, there's a pivot there between playing what you do say with Canterbury and then pivoting to Sevens. What was the challenge for you to do that?

Yeah, that particular year, I got really, really fit the preseason.

And wasn't playing a lot of super rugby at that time. So I got invited up to the New Zealand Sevens camp and I managed to win the fitness test. And the guy there coaching Gordon Titchens, you know, I think that, that, that was a step sort of in, through, in the door. And then I played okay in the, in the trials and yeah, managed to make the team, but it was, it was a high, high pace, high skill game. And for me, I just felt like it was a chance for me to work really hard and, and it suited that style of play for me. Of course, you needed the hot steppers and skillful people and people with a lot of pace as well. But, yeah, going into that environment, it was great. You travel around the world and to win a World Series title was awesome, I bet.

And in terms of the team. So when you guys are building up for that world Championship, how much of what you did was focused on the mind? Because we often see people in sport and we see the tactics, we see the physical side of it. How much did you guys focus on your thought process, your beliefs, your visualization?

Yeah, the coach led that. And we had to be up and out of bed early in the morning and normally in the pool or in the sea just to wake ourselves up. It was one of those little rituals. And we had a strict diet of what you could and couldn't eat. But on the game day, if your first game was at 10:30, we would get down there early and do a we fitness session.

Because he wanted us to get our second win. So when the first game came around, you were sort of primed and you'd had your heart rate up. And also for teams arriving at the stadium, if they saw you out there doing shuttles and, and skill work, it was just to show them that, you know, we were confident in our fitness and we were, we were at this stage, you know, we were out there doing fitness just to sort of mentally put doubt in their mind. And then lots of other teams started to do this as well. But certainly, yeah, just, just going through process your warmup normally, your routines, your habits of how I wasn't a superstitious player but you'd normally just heavy routine and made you feel in control of your warm up. You know, you get out there and not much would change. You do then you do team warm up. So then when you played you certainly had a plan of how you wanted to play. But then a lot of the game is playing what you see and backing your instincts. So it was just always getting that balance. But it was certainly as soon as you finish, you're in the ice bars and you're stretching, you get some food and you'd have a wee rest period. Three hours later you're playing again. So it was very, you had a plan and you stuck to your habits. Was, was the key.

I love it. Yeah, those world class habits when it comes to any high performance activity in sport or life or business are the make or break. Right, that's interesting. And let's say you've had a big win, championship win or the world, you win the World Cup. So how important is it to celebrate? You know we often are focusing on the next thing, the next thing. But how important is it to stop and actually embrace that celebration?

Yeah, it's very important to celebrate. It's up to you. You know how you do that.

You know I've, I've seen a bit of everything in sport with, with the celebrations and they can certainly be some enjoyable times. But I think you, you know, whether you party or you don't party or you have a fizzy drink or a beer, it's, it's all good these days. You can choose as an individual but there's certainly no pressure. Certainly we've enjoyed some of the celebrations in the past. It's probably good to reflect also with your coaches and your teammates and extract out over that week before you'll disperse and potentially go to other teams or have some time off just to capture the key learnings. But also if you lose, you've also got to celebrate the season and the effort you put in. While you're disappointed with potentially not say winning that final, you still have to acknowledge the fact that you got there and just sort of put a line in the sand to draw the season to a head.

But yeah, I think we high performers, as soon as you finish one thing, you're always looking to do the next thing. And I'm like that. But yeah, you just gotta decide if it's that how big the celebration needs to be or what's appropriate for each situation.

Yeah, I love it. I think it's just critically important when you look at the habit loop the Last part of the habit loop is the dopamine release, and that's what kind of reinforces the loop to keep happening. So when you have even a small win, just celebrating it in some way. And it's interesting, you talk about high performers. I've been thinking about this the last couple of weeks, Adam. So a high performer will set a goal and let's say it's the top of a mountain and the head towards that goal, and that can be a business goal or a sports goal, and they get close to the top of it, but as they get close to the top of it, in the distance, they can now see another peak up high. And I talk about in my mind, like the high performers horizon. So most people's horizon is there. Like you look out to the ocean, the horizon is there. But a high performer's horizon is always upwards and it's always the next peak and it's never ending. So a high performer generally won't get to an end point ever. You know, so let's say for yourself, you know, you have your sports career, then you finish well, that's not like your horizon doesn't do this, doesn't go flat. You're constantly looking, okay, what's next? Where's my next challenge? So that high performers horizon, you just kind of described it perfectly when you talked about that.

Yeah, I like how you've explained that, James. And I guess.

Because if we're a high performer and you were always trending upwards, I think it's okay to have that plateau. If you decide, you know, we've got these two or three weeks or we're going to go on holiday and switch off, or it's an you're in control, but then when you sit down or you, you want to climb that next peak that, that eventually comes, I think it's when you're on the plateau, when you know you're out of your control, that's. That's probably the worst way to be.

I guess, a hundred percent. And on that front, like, I think we all. Well, I know we all hit plateaus that are not in our control. We don't want them, we don't enjoy them. When was the last time that you've hit one of those plateaus where it was a lull or a lull or just this moment that just wasn't heading the direction you wanted to head?

Yeah, I've had a few of them in my sporting career.

You probably just got to go have some honest conversations with coaches and trainers and perhaps try a few different things. Sometimes, you know, though, like, don't get me wrong, like my built a career through sport by work ethic and fitness and doing the extra, going the extra mile and staying out, doing extra skills. So always.

That'S what got me there. But sometimes, you know, there always become a point where less was more and just getting off the training field and recovering a bit more or getting in the ice bars was good. So, um, it's just realizing that sometimes, you know, what change might be needed in a certain part of the season.

Yeah, and just keeping an open mind, I think being an athlete and also after rugby, in my new career, so just looking for new ways to challenge yourself.

Yeah, 100%. I love that. And you and I have chatted about human needs psychology in the past where we've got to meet our needs for certainty as humans, but then right after that, if we've got too much certainty, then we get bored. And so having that variety and meeting that need for variety is also really important. And I hear that with your ice baths and with seeking different input and having a break and like actually keeping variety as part of your recipe.

Yeah, definitely. Excuse me. And then like during the training week, you know, one week the coaches might change up the venue or we might do things the other way around or go out and do a session on the beach. And it was just created a different environment, a different atmosphere and yeah, you need that, you need to keep things interesting as well.

100%. And let's, let's talk about life after sport. So when you were getting towards the end of your playing career, what were you starting to think about in terms of the next step? What was your process?

Yeah, I, before I cracked into the professional rugby, I, I studied and had got a commerce degree from Canterbury University. So it was a couple years full time and then I finished that off part time.

But I learned a lot about myself and hard work and discipline through rugby. So like, while I, my core role was to play rugby, I sort of learned a lot of life skills and you, and you sort of realize that a few years after you finish how much you learn.

But it was, yeah, it was, I guess coming back and starting a family back in New Zealand, getting, getting a family home and, and sort of creating that environment for you. And my wife had come with me around the world and supported me. So it was just getting back and getting a solid base for her first and foremost. And then it was really just re a good year or so before, just reconnected for a lot of people in Christchurch in the business world, especially in the agricultural world. And yeah, to start having lots of coffees, reconnecting. And yeah, I got an opportunity. I, I did. I went back onto the farm for a year, reconnected with my roots, related to the family business, which was, which was tough because it was a complete change from professional sport. But I really appreciate the, the opportunity. Looking back now and then, I use my degree, got in a role rural banking.

With Anz, and then just recently have started with Bailey selling rural real estate. So it's quite cool to, you know, come back to deal with farmers, the rural community. It's a, it's, you know, a big economic source of farming in New Zealand.

And yeah, I'm just also using my, my sporting background to help pave my next career.

It's amazing. And what I see there, and I love there, is that agriculture, farms, people. That has been a thread constantly throughout your life, before and after rugby and even during rugby. Heading up home at Christmas and whenever you could get up and being around the farm. I love that. That's kind of the center of who you are the. And what you do. And now you're in a career with Bailey's and you're selling rural real estate. And what I love about that is when I think of you, Adam, and I'm sure when people are listening now, we don't hear a hard, fast salesperson that's just trying to make a sale. We hear a genuine human who wants to connect with other people and do right by them and do it at a high performance level. And I mean, what gets better than that? Like from Bailey's perspective, that must be amazing to have you on board.

Yeah, it's a great company. I'm really enjoying it. I've been going eight months. But you're right, I like with rugby, you know, when you score that try, you play a good game. It always started with, you know, your preseason and especially that week, you know, Monday to Friday or Sunday to Friday, how much work you put in that week. You know, all blacks always used to say that, you know, you, it gives you a chance, the right or a chance to play well on Saturday, how well you prepared for Sunday to Friday. And that was your recovery, nutrition. But yeah, most importantly, your training and, you know, your mindset. So I see it with Bailey's now, like, I'm not. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Going back to the rugby, it wasn't ever going out there and trying to be the hero was. It was just working hard and then those, those magical moments would happen off the back of doing the basics well. But now I'm at Bailey's, I, I'm trying to or reconnecting with farmers, building relationships, being genuine and helping out their needs now. So when the time comes, should they want to buy or sell, hopefully they trust me and want to use my services.

It's amazing. And the one thing I know about you and others should know about is just your commitment to planning, your commitment to excellence, your commitment to preparation. So what does it look like, what does a week look like for you in terms of preparing for your week and what do you do in the morning? So what, what are those key things that you are non negotiable with?

Yeah, and I learned this through sport, like, you know, setting out your week, planning it. So then after each day you're ticking, ticking the boxes so when you get to the game you can go out and play with a clear mind back the planning you've done so you can go out and play what you see, but you've also got a bit of a plan to guide you. But, so I've used that to come into my professional.

Work at Bailey. So I sit down on a Sunday or not evening or first thing on a Monday.

And just write out my two or three key points for the, for the week. And I normally just reconfirm my key appointments. And I find, you know, getting up early each day really is the sort of the rudder of the day and it just propels me into having a great day. And what I do is I have the first hour to myself. So it's just getting up.

You know, between about four and five probably. I actually average my get up time over a year. It sounds a bit crazy, but I just recorded it for a year was 4, 4:38am and then I would, you know, get up, have a shower, meditate. I would also watch five minutes of inspiration. I would look at my vision board and sit down, you know, write down a few key things for the day. Normally exercise with a run or go to the gym.

And then I could either go to work early or you know, have breakfast or you know, do a bit of extra exercise. But that mean when I got to work, I would start early and by starting early, the whole day just would flow on. I got their momentum.

The success through momentum.

I love that. And there's a couple of things I want to chat about there that I'm sure others picked up on too. So one, you measured for across a whole year, you measured the average of your wake up times. Now what I find Fascinating about that. And some people might be like, whoa, that would be so hard to do. But you measured it. And across the year, it was 4:38am when you think of high performers, they measure things. They measure the important things. And you decided early rising is actually a really important factor in a successful life, successful relationships, successful business. So I love that. And so for the person that's listening right now, I want to urge you to do the same thing, measure the important things. And for Adam, that was an early morning. So if we look now at your early morning, you talked about a couple of things you did when you got up. So first time you get up, meditation was high on the list. So what role does meditation play in your life? Why is it important?

Yeah, you know, I'm 35, James, and you know, I've got young kids and I've had a career, so I'm getting some life experiences behind me. Certainly when I was 22, I, I was probably but naive and still young and I never would have thought about meditating. And perhaps later in my career I started doing a bit of visualization and you know, I was just maturing a bit and but certainly since I finished, I can realize, you know, meditation is a great skill to have just been a bit more open minded. So it just allows. Because I'm so busy during the day or so occupied during the day, and I've got lots of appointments and talking to lots of people, I just find having that pause at the start of each day just really puts me in control. Like I'm number one and, and just the simple facts of breathing allows me to be more present when I'm talking to people and just feel in control. When you know, if your day is getting out of control, you might just pause five minutes during the day and say, we'll come back to center. So yeah, it definitely helps with connecting with people, being present and just being in control.

That's awesome. Yeah, I totally agree. I get it 100%. And in terms of the type of meditations, do you have an app you use or do you have a way that you like to do normally?

Yeah, I keep things pretty simple, but I'm always open to ideas. But it might be sort of 10 minutes just so we. On YouTube, I normally just.

Google it and I sort of mix it up between half a dozen different sort of meditations, but it's pretty simple.

And I've just started box breathing. I learned that off you recently, James. So it's just keeping keeping myself open to new ideas.

That's Great. And honestly, I think, I mean, I follow the same as you. I have a YouTube playlist and I just go for it and it's great. And just, I think building that muscle, it's almost like it's a mind gym. You've got your physical gym, but then you've got your mind gym with your mindset and your mindfulness. And I love that you said when your day gets out of control, which it does for all of us, you can just go back to center. And the fact that you've been building every day this meditation muscle, it's there when you need it. So when you show up at 2pm on a day where you're really flustered and you need that meditation, the muscle is right there when you really need it.

That's right. But just going back to getting up early, it was really tough, but it's a habit now. I've done it for two and a half years now as a kid. We've get up early on the farm or if we're off hunting or, you know, here and there. But it really is a habit now. And having young kids like, you know, I want to be home to see them and spend time with them before we have dinner and bath time. So if I front load the day, then, then it allows me to get home to spend more time with the kids. And.

Also.

Yeah, it's just the best time of the morning, best time of the day.

I'm with you on that 100%. Yeah, it's quiet. Nobody's calling you, nobody needs your attention. You can just focus on you. And I want to talk a bit about family as well in just a moment. And a couple of other things you talked about in the morning though, that I think other listeners probably picked up on, they would like to know more about. So you watch something positive or inspirational. Five minutes of inspiration. Tell me a little bit about what kind of stuff that is and why that's important.

Yeah, just that might relate back to my point before, like with, with rugby and especially here at Canterbury and the Crusaders or someone like Scott Robinson coaching me, like he was a very inspirational person. So you'd walk in on a Monday or a Tuesday for your team meeting, there's music playing and they might play five minutes of highlights and five minutes of, you know, work ethic on the field and everyone get up high, five each other, shake hands, greet each other. There's plenty of energy and the boys will really connect in the room. Or if you're in the gym and you're going to Do a personal best bench press, Someone might ring the bell and everyone sort of gets around. So I just realized, like through sport, you know, you need to sort of feel that inspiration. Because I find sometimes in corporate roles, if you turn up to your job and you just go into meetings, sitting down all day and meeting to meeting, you know, where's that energy and inspiration coming from? So I just found through sport, we'd always pull up having, you know, a theme each year and say, for example, we might base it on Muhammad Ali. So I would really look into Muhammad Ali that year and extract out everything. You know, the coach would read his book and we would use his phrases and key.

You know, sports memories or things he said to use for our team. So that was just something personal. Like if I Google Arnold sports nigger or another famous athlete or person, then I'm just sort of picking up a couple of key things to inspire me for the day. You know, look, you're trying to just find little idols and you can find that online or pretty easy.

That's amazing. And it's so interesting, Adam, because I think a lot of people will say, I can't find a really inspirational role model. I can't find someone I can talk to. But actually you don't need to be sitting in front of them. You can be learning through saturation. And what you said is so powerful. Essentially every morning you are drip feeding your reticular, activating system with this positivity, this empowering thought process so that it literally front loads your day with inspiration, energy, positivity and hope.

Exactly.

That's awesome, man. I love it. Now, the other thing in the morning. So you had your vision board, right? Let's talk about that. So what's on your vision board? What kind of stuff would somebody put up there and where has it served you well in the past?

Yeah, and like just going back to the rugby again would always have, you know, photos up in the gym or inspirational quotes. And you know, coaches in the past have always, you know, led that through creating our themes. But I think, yeah, what I learned, like I was, I'm a big read writer, I always write down things. But I sort of figured the last few years, especially this year, just by having photos up that you see just once again you see every day, or you're actively looking at that for five minutes every day, or perhaps every time you pass that room, you might just have a weak glance up there. And I think it just puts it into your mind that, you know, these things are achievable. You're aiming to be this person or achieve that.

It's powerful. I think.

By doing, if you're at work or at a company, just by doing values or goals, once a year is great, but if it's only once a year and it's on paper and it's put in the front, the top drawer, it's sort of worthless. I'm a big believer of every day, like our habits.

And every day, if you were to wake up and you would look through this filter of the world, you've got this filter that sees the world around you. What are those values? What do you value the most in life that shapes how you think and what you believe?

Yeah. As you mature, that question might, that answer might change slightly over time. But certainly having kids and a wife now is number one.

Loving your family and being loved by them. But I do find a few can really look after yourself first and get your own headspace. Right. And get fit, get in control of where you're going, where you can lead your family, you can lead be a great dad, a great parent.

Great brother, when you're sort of in control of yourself first. So lead yourself and then you can lead your family, your friends, your community.

That's amazing. Yeah, I heard like a few key things there in terms of values. So leadership, family mindset, health, those are really big, strong things that came through as you spoke. And I think if any of us lived a life with those as our major values, we're going to have a pretty incredible life. So let's talk about family a bit. So obviously when you started rugby, you're a young fella and no family and now you've got two beautiful young kids, a beautiful wife and another one on the way. So what is it about family that you love? What makes being a dad so special?

Yeah, I really enjoy the sort of really present one on one time with my kids.

Look, I'm building my career daily, so I'm working really hard. So I'm just really treasuring the time that I get or the time that I choose to. When I'm with my kids, I'm totally with my kids. So I just love taking them to the beach and picking up shells or building sandcastles, teaching just the things about nature.

The one on one time it could be just playing a bit of rugby with my youngest son Louis on the carpet, could be reading books or taking my daughter to the library or the museum. It's just those little special moments that are really enjoyable when you sort of are just 100% focused on your kids.

And what's really, really impressive and I think important to highlight here is that you want to be successful in your career and you're going to be and you're focused on it, but you're not doing that at the expense of the relationships around you. And it's about striking that balance. And I imagine because I experienced it myself, I know lots of other people do, it's challenging. It's challenging to grow a career and to be really present.

Oh, definitely.

You have to block time, I believe, you know, it might be this weekend coming up where, you know, it's, it's family or you might go away with, with my wife and the kids, it's sort of having non negotiables. I guess I'm home by this time or I say no to these few things and now I'm not perfect at this. But you know, this is the way I want to, I want to get to. So I'm really, I want to be really successful in my career but, but also if I don't have a happy family or seeing my family, why am I doing it? So, you know, some weeks is, you know, might be working more but I've just got to realize, you know, if it's a few weeks on the track, I need to put some time back in to the family. So, so it's always a juggle.

It's, it's not a, it's an easy thing to do. But certainly if you look after yourself first, make family number one and always come back to that which is on my vision board, I think it just keeps me, keeps in front of my mind what's, what's important that's brilliant.

And it's easy to get lost in the excitement of career and business and goals and forget about what's truly important. And I think a year, two years, five years can pass really quickly. But when you've got some parameters around it, you've got some systems in place like you do, then it can help when you do get a little bit too on that side or this side, you can actually come back to what's important.

Yeah, definitely. And it's just been, yeah, just working that out with, with your.

Wife or husband, I think, and just sitting down and sharing your goals together, working together to be aligned. And I know you'll never be perfect, but perfect's not a thing. But yeah, I think it's just really listening to each other to work out what's important.

Yeah. And that's so interesting. We talk about perfection. I Think you and I have chatted about that in the past around. A lot of us feel that we have perfectionist tendencies, but perfection isn't really measurable. I like that you say that perfect's not where you're headed. So with your partner, so with. With Tiff, when we think of like your career and, and your relationship, how does that all balance out? You know, she traveled around the world with you and went to France, I'm sure had the most incredible time. And so how does that all work? What are the greatest challenges of, you know, being a partner of someone who is a high performer and an athlete?

Yeah, I think when you have it, unfortunate injuries playing, you might bring home that disappointment or you might vent at your, your wife or she might see you when you're, you know, you're most down. So that's probably quite tough on, on sports people's partners.

What else is there? Yeah, like it's. You might miss a team or not be selected and they might also take the brunt of that. So, yeah, it's not easy. Following a sports person around the world can be a bit, you know, with transient sometimes. I was reasonably fortunate to sort of only play for a few teams, so we had a bit of a stronger base rather than changing every year. But certainly the experiences through sport, we're extremely grateful. You know, we can speak another language. We, we met some awesome people, some great experiences and Tiffany was there for a lot of that. So to have her by my side and yeah, just I guess to thank her and she does a great job still today being a great wife and mother. So, yeah, she certainly helped me sort of achieve what I've achieved and had the experiences I've been fortunate to have.

That's beautiful. And that's right. I mean, your partner gets to experience the ups and the downs and their input behind the scenes is just so valuable. Often goes unseen because it is behind the scenes and you know, I guess, you know, having someone who can call you out and hold you to account, but who can also lift you up when, when you're at your lowest ebb. It's just, it's vital to be successful in life to have that person, right?

Oh, definitely.

I love it. And what about the wee ones? So, you know, they're going to be getting older day by day. What do you hope for them? What is one value that you hope to impart with your child? With all three children?

Yeah, I think if they just work hard and follow their dreams.

You know, encourage them to, you know, I would love them to play sport, whatever sport that is, I'll support them. But.

Yeah, just, just probably to work hard and what, what sort of lights him up and because they can achieve and get so much fulfillment from, you know, realizing their potential.

I love it. And that's. That probably segues into that question that you've kind of probably, I think answered it already. But if, you know, we were to get to later in life, your last few days here and a grandchild or someone really young in your family said to you, hey, how do I lead my life on purpose? You know, what would your answer be to that? If they were trying to lead it with purpose and be heart centered and have an amazing life and they thought you had the answer for them, what advice would you have for them?

Yeah, it's a great question and there's many things I could say, but I guess I always found myself when I'm happy and fulfilled and.

You know, what I've made a career out of is probably by being fit and healthy and I've got that through running and you just with endorphin releases and feeling good. So yeah, I'll just encourage them to, to move and then your energy and everything flows from there, I believe. So just get out and play sport and keep fit and you'll be happy or a long way to going happy and living a fulfilled life.

That's awesome. That's seriously beautiful. In all the interviews, that's the one time that someone's really honed in on the importance of movement, of getting the good endorphins and how that can shift shape your psychology, your experience of life, you know, that physical movement, that physiology and how it can really shape the psychology. And honestly I think Adam, it's so underestimated. It's so there's not enough people talking about it, but you're a prime example of someone who throughout his life has really embraced that. And after sport you obviously do some running and in fact, tell me, how long was that Kepler run you did?

Yeah, The Kepler was 60Ks earlier this year. It was just over 2000 meters of vertical gain. But the iconic sort of mountain race in New Zealand and up in the mountains and great views over Te Anau and in the Southern Alps, it's great. Running with like minded people in the satisfaction of finishing a challenging race was awesome. But yeah, I think for me, you know, because I've played sport, it's become a habit by keeping fit and I honestly think it just sets you up to have a clear mind and more confident and also the people you're hanging out with. So if you're keeping fit and playing basketball or swimming or running. So people you're hanging with and that energy flows back and forward and it's. And so lots of things stem from that. I know it can be hard, but perhaps if people don't like it. But once again, you just got to stick at it for a good few months, 60 days, for example, and then it becomes a habit. So look, you might have ups and downs or weeks off here and there and you don't have to be perfect, but as long as you've, I think, you know, especially early in the morning, if you're doing something, you feel so great.

Adam, I just want to say thank you because you've shared so many incredible insights. Like for the person listening right now, I hope they've been writing things down or they go back and re listen to this. But what you shared was gold on so many fronts. And I love how simple a lot of your approaches are. Like, there's no complexity. It's like, hey, this is what we do and this is what we do regularly and this makes a difference. I really feel this will not be the last time that we speak together on lead on purpose. I think there's going to be more opportunities to unpack. I think some of the four or five things that you do daily. We could almost do a show on each of those. Incredible.

Thank you, James. And yeah, I've learned a lot of those along the way and certainly when I was younger I didn't practice all of them like I've always run, but it's just keeping an open mind and you'll find things throughout life that you know, you just, you didn't know the positive effect of it until you do it. So just keep an open mind, keep things simple, enjoy life, keep fit. And yeah, just, just. Thank you, James. I've enjoyed giving back and hopefully the listeners have picked up a few things. So really appreciate coming on.

That's been amazing. Have the most epic day.

Cheers, James, you too.

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