The Habits Olympians Use to Stay Mentally and Physically Elite with Annie Kunz

Well, today's special guest is the Olympian and US champion Annie Kunz. We're going to talk about what she does, how she keeps herself at the very best of her game, and how we can apply that to our life and work. Enjoy the show. Annie, a huge welcome to the Habits of High Performers podcast. How are you doing?

I'm great. I'm excited to be here and chat with you today. Thanks for having me on.

It's an honor. I'm so excited. It's not every day that I get to sit with someone who competes right at the top level. And when I look back through your career, I'm like, wow, It's just phenomenal. And I want the listener just to think for a second about what you do and what it requires. When we think of sport, whether it's rugby, football, certain athletics, we think of an individual sport and getting really good at that. What you do is next level. It's like on a whole other level. So you're competing in 7 events, is that right?

Yes.

Over 2 days?

Yep.

Okay, so consistency. And you're doing it up here, right? Like right at the highest level. What does it actually take mentally and habit-wise to stay strong across 7 different activities?

Oh my gosh, I mean, well, I always joke, I'm like, I'm just above average at a lot of stuff. I'm not excellent at one. But no, I mean, to get to the Olympic level in the heptathlon, you do have to be almost excellent at 7 different disciplines. And the mental side, obviously the physical side and the technical side of track and field and the heptathlon especially, I was a soccer player most of my life, and then I transitioned into track. And so the technical side of track and field, it just takes years to develop, especially when you're in an event like the heptathlon. So I would say, like, in the heptathlon, you're really peaking closer to, like, your 30s, which is different, right? Like, a lot of— it's a later peak in that regard. So the physical side of it is just so taxing, and the technical side just takes so long to really figure out. But I will say the mental side of the heptathlon is where that's the differentiator in the people that I think are get to that next level in the Olympic level, professional level champions in the heptathlon is really being able to navigate your mindset because if you go into a heptathlon thinking you're going to get them all, you're going to nail them all, you're setting yourself up for failure. Something is bound to happen. There is 7 different events in over 2 full days. I mean, after heptathlon, I just tap out for 2 days. I sleep for 2 days. My mind is just so tapped out because you really can't turn it off for that full 2 days. And so you really have to have short-term memory loss in a way. I kind of like to think of it as that, whether it's good or bad, you have to kind of be able to let go and move on to the next thing. And so really figuring that out and learning how to be present for that long. Was something that I really think I figured out throughout the end of my career or later in my career. And that's kind of when things started to take off for me.

It's incredible. And when did you start? Like, when did you go from, say, soccer to go, no, actually, I want to get into heptathlon?

So I was actually a soccer— like, my scholarship was actually for soccer. So I was a full-ride scholarship at Texas A&M for soccer, but I was dead set on doing both. I did both track and soccer since I was 2 and 3 years old. I was always tall for my age. I was the youngest of 3 kids. By like 10 years. So I just got thrown in very early. And so I was just dead set on doing both, and that landed me at Texas A&M. But I mean, soccer was paying for me, so they were my full scholarship. I was technically a walk-on for track and field. And so I was kind of going from in-season to in-season, and I finally got to my junior year, and our soccer team was going to be really good. My coaches sat me down and wanted me to really think about redshirting a year for track so that I could have a spring season because I just never got those foundational parts of the year in either sport. So they really wanted me to come in and just be a starter. I always kind of had to earn my way back because I was coming straight from track. I missed some of the preseason stuff, so they wanted me to get that spring season. So I ended up doing that and then transitioning from there to track and field was the first time in my life that I just trained for track and field. I didn't even practice in high school because they're in the same season in Colorado. So that was really the first time in my life at like 21 years old, 22 years old, that I was able to put all of my energy into track and field. And I qualified for the Rio Olympic trials in 2016. I went in like second to last or last or second to last, I can't remember, out of like 22 girls. I ended up breaking the school record. I finished 8th overall. And so it was just a really big pivotal moment in my life where it opened my eyes to the potential that was in track and field that I maybe didn't realize. I always thought I'd go back to soccer. At the time, Houston Dash was getting started and I wanted to go pro in soccer. And then that moment really changed the trajectory of my life and I decided to pursue track full-time and got recruited from there to come train at the Olympic Training Center in San Diego. To pursue the Olympics. So that's kind of how that— Yeah, my story is really crazy in that regard, for sure.

That's so amazing and such a risk. Like, I still have a very young age to go, I'll give up this passion that I've been passionate about since I was a toddler. And it could take me professional to go into something that's relatively new and then to go deep. So you made that decision. You went to San Diego. What did you start learning about what was required to be competing at that level?

It was such a wake-up call. I mean, the amount of tears that I cried in that transition because up until that point, I really had just ridden on talent. I was just a talented athlete. But at the same time, I was still like the second best head athlete pretty much my whole career at A&M. So I was always a soccer girl that ran track. And then obviously that year that it took off, I realized I have a lot more potential. But I hadn't really, um, the biggest shock I think transitioning to that professional stage and training full-time was a, like, the volume, the intensity of the training was just so much more than I was ever used to. Um, my body changed a lot, so I really had to start— that's I think the biggest thing that changed was like I really started to have focus on the little things, like, okay, what am I— how am I feeling, my body, my mindset. Those are all the things that I kind of never really focused on. I just kind of got away with it. But you can't at that level. You get to a point where everyone's talented. So it was a big wake-up call. My first 2 years as a— I always use air quotes as a professional because I was like, I wasn't making any money. I was training for the Olympics, but it didn't feel like it at the time. My performances were worse as a pro than in college. And so I had a 2-year span that I really had to dig deep and surround myself with people in areas and experts that were going to help me in my weakness, weak areas. So my nutrition, my mindset, um, and then that's kind of where things started to transition around 2019 when I figured out those things, um, that really set me up for success.

Amazing. I want to talk about both of those things. So mindset's something I geek out on and something I talk a lot with athletes around. So for you, what was the, like, the handbrake? What was holding you back and how did you, like, release that?

You know, I just don't think I had any systems prior, right? Like, I don't— and I don't think I'd— I never really worked with anyone before. Um, again, I was just kind of riding on talent. I didn't really have any systems in place. I didn't know how to think in competition. I didn't know how to navigate emotions when things weren't going well. Um, and I wasn't tracking anything. I just didn't have any habits or systems in place that were gonna set me up for success. And so working with— it was actually COVID that kind of started that whole journey in finding a mindset coach. It was the first time that I think— I mean, we all kind of struggle with depression, but that was my first time of having life depression. I've had breakups where I'm sad, but I was like, couldn't get off the couch. Just the most mundane things felt like such a hard thing to do. There was talks of the Olympics getting canceled, so that was swirling around and really hard. And so I remember the day I sat on my couch with my boyfriend at the time and I just started crying and he was like, I'm seeing signs. I think we should get you to talk to someone. So that got me into therapy, which then got me into, I need to work on my mindset because at that point when the shutdowns happened, I was kind of hitting my stride. I had just come off winning my first US championship, so I kind of figured out my body and getting my body to optimal performance. My scores were much better. I had better systems around competition and my mindset, but I really going into that Olympic year, I was like, okay, I want this to be my competitive edge. I'm going to make my mindset my competitive edge and I'm going to be the most resilient and out there with my mind and the way that I can think in competition. And so I found my mindset coach that year leading into the Olympics and we really just dialed in my systems. I worked every day on my mindfulness practice. Lots of meditation, like a lot, a lot of meditation. The first 6 weeks with him was just like a mindfulness kind of like rundown and what it is. And, you know, he would just force me to meditate with him on our calls a lot, which is really hard just to be still. And so, yeah, that was— that really allowed me to understand how to subconsciously be present. I didn't have to think about it, right? And that's really hard. It's really hard. And I've fallen out of those habits, like everything that your podcast is about. But when you fall out of those habits, then it doesn't happen subconsciously and I really struggle in competition. So really just having those systems in place and that way when I get to those competitions, it is a subconscious thing where your body takes over and you just have that happening in the background and you're able to stay present without having to think about it in your conscious brain. So yeah, I don't know if that answers your question, but that's—

It's phenomenal. I've got so many follow-on questions from that. Annie, I love this. So I had Dr. Ellen Langer on the show about a year ago, and she's known as the mother of mindfulness. So she brought mindfulness to the Western world. She's been a professor in Harvard for, I think, 30 or 40 years. I think she may be stepping down this year. So I got so excited about mindfulness and learning about it. So what was your experience? Like, what did that look like? What, what did you think about or not think about?

Well, I think that, I think that a lot of it was the daily practice, right? Like, I, I would meditate in the morning and at night, and then I sometimes would even do like a running meditation when I would do my like warm-up laps, where it's literally just talking you through this, the sensations that you're feeling in your body, like where your foot is hitting the ground. And it really— so I really was like just feeding my brain that constantly, you know, um, and all different body scans, um, you know, breathwork. We would work on different scenarios once I would get into competition as things would arise, like, okay, this is what I was feeling in my body, this is my anchor. Like, what's your anchor when this is happening? So I just had systems in place to really learn how to navigate things in competition, um, and I really, I feel like the, um, the best thing that I probably learned from him is just, is just to be present and grateful and grounded and finding and really finding that, um, in competition. I really didn't think that I fully felt that until the Olympic trials. I really struggled with, um, the idea of like surrendering. Um, that was a big thing that I remember coming back to, and I think that when I finally got to the point of learning to let go. Because for me, a lot of times, and I think athletes with mindfulness practice, it's like surrendering, being a witness to your emotions. But that surrender piece was really hard for me because when you're gripping on so tightly to this thing that you've been training for, for 4 years, you want it so bad, you're like, okay, how am I supposed to just surrender to like what is, you know, or what's going to be? Like, how— what do you mean I'm supposed to just let go and like But I remember it vividly, the 2 weeks before Olympic trials to qualify for Tokyo before I came an Olympian. I was a basket case. It was just a pressure cooker. I was crumbling every day in practice. I felt like I was— every practice ended in tears. And I worked a lot. My coach was like, you have to learn to let go. You got to learn to surrender. Everything is here. Everything that you've done that is in your control, you are ready to go. You just have to let go.. And 2 days before Olympic trials, I just genuinely felt that. And it's something that you can't force, but I finally got to the point where I was like, okay, I have done every possible thing in my control. I have zero— I can look back and I have zero regrets of my preparation. My body is ready. And if my— if I'm not the one on that podium at the end of the day, I did everything that I can. And like, God, I give it to you and I let go. And I got in that flow state. Like, it truly, I couldn't even tell you what one other athlete was doing the entire meet. I just was so grounded and in gratitude, looking at my family in the stands, and I was really in that flow state, and I think that's why everything just went so well for me, because all that whole year of preparation, that mindfulness work, all came to, all happened at the right moment. All that work just really paid off in that regard.

That's so powerful. I love that you can share it. And actually share the emotion of it. Because I think a lot of athletes and certainly people in the business world, they share the thoughts and the wins, but actually you're sharing how it felt. And as a kid, I wanted to be a world champion more than anything. That was all I wanted. And it was in drumming. And so I was 13, I won my first world title, and I was like, I was so young, I didn't really even realize that I'd won it. But you're not nervous then, right? You have no kind of self-awareness, right?

Totally.

Totally. So I won it again at 14 and same thing. But then at 15, things start to change. I started to overthink and worry and really want it so badly. I couldn't let go. And what really helped me was two books. Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now. The Untethered Soul is another one I've read recently.

Yeah, I've heard of it. Someone actually just recommended that to me recently.

You've got to buy it.

This is a second reminder.

Yeah, really amazing. But it's all about surrendering. So you get to the Olympics. There's a small handful of humans on this planet that have ever been Olympians. How do you feel when you realize that, hey, I'm an Olympian?

Oh my gosh, that moment. I mean, that, that, it's so crazy. It still gives me chills to think about it because, you know, just training for the Olympics is, uh, gosh, it's such a grind. It's, you, you have to be so selfish. You have to really— you're married to your sport in a way. I, I put so much on hold for so long. I said no to so many things. I missed so many girls' weekends, barbecues, weddings, baby showers. You just miss a lot. I only go home a couple of times a year. So for all of that sacrifice and hard work to pay off in that way of like, wow, I actually achieved this dream that I've had since I was a little girl. I remember watching the Sacramento Olympic trials we went when I was like 12, I think like 10 or 12, somewhere in there. And I just vividly remember just not even moving. Like, I was enamored by the athletes. It's been a dream of mine for so long. There's an interview in high school, like, asking me, what do you want to be an Olympian? I was like, track and soccer, like both or whatever. It's just always been a dream. But then you go through the season and you're like, gosh, is this just like a far-fetched dream that's like never going to be a reality? Like, there's just so many moments of self-doubt. And wondering if it's going to be worth it. And I think the fear that a lot of athletes deal with, or not even athletes, just when you have a big goal, a big something that you're chasing that you really care about, that you want so badly, I think the fear of coming up short can feel debilitating sometimes. And so that, I def— that definitely was my journey. Like, I just had a lot of self-doubt. And I think that moment when I crossed the finish line and saw my name on the leaderboard as number 1, and I scored a number that I just never even thought was in my capabilities, just flooded with emotion because it's just like, gosh, it all was worth it. I did it. I could do it. And everyone around me knew I could. But I just think that was the moment that I proved it to myself. I'm like, oh my gosh, I did it. Like, I freaking did it. I set out to do this and I did it. And just to represent your country at the Olympics and wear USA and get that whole experience was— it was a dream come true.

Of course. And well deserved. It's interesting. I think most of us, when we look at our lives, most people will not be Olympians, but they set themselves goals that are their Olympics or their Mount Everest. And what you're describing is like the sacrifice, the hopes, the dreams, the saying no to things. And what you've shared is the tools are equally applicable to the person listening right now who's running a business, who may be a parent who feels like they're falling short as a parent. So I think it's really wide spanning, your advice. It's huge. Now, you've got all these events. Let's say the third event goes terribly. How does Annie reset and go, let's go again, the fourth one's going to be awesome?

Well, I mean, that happened to the Olympics. Actually, the first event, I almost ate it. Or like the fourth hurdle, I came out blazing and almost ate it. But I mean, it really just goes into all that practice of the mindfulness, right? Of being able to be present, good or bad, right? It's really easy to be present when things are going well. It's hard to be present when they're not. And I remember it vividly. That's probably one of my most proud moments as an athlete is at the Olympics. The Olympics was not my best meet, but there's a moment where I almost fall. I gather myself, but I lost like half a second, which is like 60 or 70 points, a lot of points. But you see a moment where I cross the finish line and I'm like, and I just accept it and then move on. I went and jumped, set my best second best I had jumped all season in high jump. So it's just the idea of acceptance, good or bad, being able to accept what happened. Because I think a lot of times, especially in life as an athlete, you get caught up in things that have happened that you have no control over. That's, I feel like, where the depression side of things comes in, or you're anxious about something that's coming. And that's like, for me, I'm like, oh, gosh, I have anxiety about the 800, but I'm in my second event. So it's like you have anxiety of the future or you're kind of depressed and you're caught up and you're stuck in something that's happened that you have no control over. So it's really that ability to accept things as they are and then move into the next present moment. It's moment by moment. You always have the next moment. Um, and so a lot of my, you know, practices and things that I would go through, like breathing exercises, I would have anchors, um, whether that's like a word or something that I do. I like at the Olympics, one of my things that really just calmed me, which is so funny, was just playing gin on my phone. It occupied my mind. It's something that takes you where you can— like for me, I occupied my mind in between events without having to sit there and think about the event coming up or the one that just happened because we have long bouts of time in between events and stuff. So just really having those tools in your tool belt to tool belt that you can kind of rely on when you do need those moments to like, okay, get me back into the present moment, or I need to accept this. I would throw in a meditation, present moment anchor, and that way it just— you really are just training your brain on how to really navigate those, those situations.

That's amazing. It's interesting, I think that the mind, we sell it short a lot as adults, and really that's the time we need to work on it the most. You know, when we look at kids in sport, it's usually the strongest kid, the tallest kid, the fastest kid, right up until like 15, 16 years of age. And all of a sudden, we're all starting to become quite similar physically. And so, what becomes the edge is the mental edge. So, you've talked about anchors. I'd love to chat about that. So, neurolinguistic anchors for people to kind of get into a certain arousal state. So, calm, or in certain instances, they might need to be more aggressive and more intense. What were some of those specific ones for you?— you had some words. What was one of the words that you might have used?

Gratitude. Gratitude is my biggest anchor. And I think that that— and it really depends on what motivates you, what grounds you. You really just have to— I think you know yourself. That might not work for some athletes that are more intense. I've never been the athlete that is motivated by like, oh, she just jumped farther, I'm going to jump further. That's never been me. I've always been more like, I want to just compete against myself. I'm more motivated by being grateful that I'm here. You just have to know what kind of person you are. But gratitude was something that was always an anchor. And so the action that I would— it's okay, gratitude, be grateful where I'm at. Look at the stands, look at my family. I'm so grateful that my family gets to watch me do what I love out here. And that would just kind of release that tension for me a lot when I was in competition and kind of in those more stressful situations or getting caught up. I'm such an overthinker, so it would really kind of take me back to the present moment, like, okay, just ground yourself, be grateful.

So gratitude was a big one for me. That's awesome. And something I do a lot, like, I don't go anywhere without my journal. It's like, I've had journal for years.

I'm a big journal girl.

Okay, great, I love it. Tell me about your journaling. How long have you been doing it? What do you put in there? How does it help you?

Oh God, I write down everything, and especially That, you know, we talked earlier about like what was that difference? Like, I would just show up to practice and I'm just like, I practice, I'm not tracking anything. I'm not, I don't have intentions for the session. So I really found that having like a performance, like my performance journal where I, before practice, I'm writing an intention for my mindset and my physical training. So like these are the cues that I'm gonna work on today. This is my intention for my mindset. I, if I, if the, I'm not executing a technical cue very well. This is how I'm going to navigate. I'm going to go to my brother, whatever. I would have an intention for my mindset. So that way I'm getting reps in, not just in competition. I'm getting those reps in every day in practice of navigating those situations that I might have in competition. Or like, okay, my first throw was shit. I fouled out of the ring. Am I going to just crumble with my emotions or how am I going to navigate that? So it's really getting those reps in. So setting intentions for both sides of that. Was really helpful for me. I would write my goals every single day. I would start, well, I start my morning with a gratitude list. So like 3 things that I'm grateful for. And then I would write my goals and I would always write my goals in the first person. And that story's actually really cool because I started doing that the year of the Olympics. So I probably wrote my goals down every day for 8 months. And my meeting, my initial meeting with my coach, I walked in and I sat down in his office and I had goals at the time that at that point I had scored 6,150 and I wrote down I want to score 6,700 points. And my coach was like, whoa, that's a big jump, 500-point PB. All right, let's go. And I said, I want to be the Olympic trials champion. At the time there was two girls ahead of me, Kendall Williams and Erica Bogard, who was my training partner at the time actually. And those girls had kind of bounced back and forth at national champions. They were always like world ranking top 10 every year, pretty much consistently. So these were big goals. These are girls that have been kicking my ass for a long time that I wanted to beat. And I could kind of see it in my coach's face of like, oh gosh, this is big. I want to be supportive, but knew the work that we had ahead of us. And so I wrote down those goals for each event every single day. I wrote, it's like me to jump 183 in the high jump. It's like, it's like me to run 12.95 in the hurdles. I wrote that down every single day. I wrote, it's like me, uh, or I am the Olympic trials champion. I am an Olympian. So I really was training my brain. Um, it's really, it's neuroplasticity, right? Like you are what you think and what you feed your brain. And so Even though I didn't believe it 9 times out of 10 that I was writing it down, I was really diligent in journaling that every single day. And at the Olympic trials, I mean, down to the probably millisecond of what I wrote down is what I scored. And I scored 6703 was my final score. Wow. It's such a testament to your words become your world. And so I'm huge on journaling and writing down your goals and tricking your brain into believing it. 'cause you have to improve your self-image. I don't think you ever outperform your self-image. I think your performance and your self-image are directly correlated. And so if I am not seeing myself as an Olympic trials champion, if I'm not seeing myself as an Olympian, I'm not gonna train that way. I was training like an Olympian far before I became one.

Hey, James here. I wanted to take a quick moment to let you know about something. Look, I get asked to deliver keynotes and workshops for teams and companies all over the world, from London to Antarctica, from America to Australasia, from armies to small businesses to large corporates to sports teams. But I go in and deliver keynotes around the mindset of high performers, around the habits of high performers, about how we navigate change. If you would like me to come and speak to your team or speak at your conference or deliver a bespoke workshop, please get in touch with my team. Caroline@jjlaughlin.com will be able to help. I'll also make sure that we put that in the show notes. Annie, that's seriously cool. It's like you created this identity. Like, that's— I'm an Olympian, that's who I am, and I'm going to act like it, talk like it, think like it, long before you became an Olympian.

Yeah, and I think those identity shifts come from repetition. Like, I really think your confidence improves from your habits, um, and what you're feeding your brain. And that identity shift is just repetition and really just Like I say, I just had to trick my brain into believing I could do it.

Beautiful. And it's so interesting. I talk about, for years, I've read The Secret and I've went to different events with Tony Robbins and this idea of manifestation. And a lot of people like, James, it's nonsense. I said, well, it is if you don't do the work after the setting of the goal or the visualization. But the neuroscience backs it up. So, Dr. James Doty, I don't know if you've ever read his book.

I think.

What's his book? It's called Into the Magic Shop.

Oh, maybe I haven't. I don't know.

There's another one. It's amazing. So you've got to read it. I think you'll read it and be like, oh, this pretty much is what I did. So he was a young kid and had a pretty horrible upbringing and went into a magic shop, a legit old school magic shop. And there was a lady behind the counter and she was like, hey, you look a bit disheveled. Let me get you some food. And so every day she says, come here for the entire summer. And I'm going to teach you to manifest. And so, how to be still, how to be present, how to breathe, and how to set goals. So, he started doing all of this. He ended up becoming a neurosurgeon, and that was one of his goals. Then he became a neuroscientist, and he started unpacking the fact that the brain can manifest anything it wants. And he said, you get clear on what you want, you relax, you write it down every single day. You read it, you repeat it. And he says everything he's ever wanted has came from that system, that process. You've done exactly that, Annie.

Yeah, and 1,000%. I mean, it's— you're rewiring the pathways in your brain every single time you write that down. And that's where that motive— like, I'm not trying to motivate myself. Like, I'm literally trying to rewire my brain and create that identity within myself because I did struggle a lot with the self-belief. And, and just with the amount of time that you train for the Olympics, it's just your thoughts can get the best of you. And so you really have to get control of what you're feeding your brain. And that was just, to me, that's such a small thing, such a low effort thing that I could do every day that's going to really have a huge benefit. So yeah, I did that every day. And then I also then after practice with my journaling, I would kind of give myself a rating like, okay, I'd like 1 out of 10. Like, how did I, how did I execute? My mindset and how to execute my physical cues. So just that way I always am tracking everything. I would have 2 to 3 cues per event because any more than that, then I would start to just get— it's too much to think about, right? And then I kind of would have like a system that I would write down sometimes of like, you know, kind of like your anchors within the events and things like that, but just like little cues to bring me back to the present moment. So yeah, I was tracking everything in my journal. I think it's huge because then you can always have something to reference when things are going well or they're going bad. It's like, okay, what was I doing when hurdles was going really well? Oh, let me look at this. It also gives you, I think a lot of times, especially athletes or even in work and everything, sometimes like you forget where you left off, right? I'm like, oh gosh, it took me half a session to remember this cue that I figured out, you know, 2 weeks ago. So it really just keeps you on track. And gives you system, a really good system to move forward. And then you also, I would just have benchmark goals. Like I would have like weekly goals, I would have monthly goals with my coach because we do testing a lot of times like before competition, like in the preseason and stuff, like at the end of the month. Okay, these are the numbers that I want to hit. So yeah, just kind of tracking everything because then you just feel like you're in control. And I think a lot of times we have these big goals. It's like, okay, I want to be an Olympian, But you've got to work backwards. You got to zoom out and say like, well, what if I want to be an Olympian? What would that girl, that version of Annie, be doing today? Like, what are the systems that she'd have in place? How would she be fueling? And so I really try to think in that regard, um, every day, and it paid off.

Yeah, absolutely it did. It's phenomenal. And what about post-sport? So I deal with a lot of people when they're going through either a career transition, or for an athlete, it's like I am sport. I am the hockey player, the rugby player, whatever the sport is. And they have this massive identity crisis. Where are you at with sport and how do you think about it?

Yeah, I mean, I think that's such a common struggle. Athletes with your career, I think that your identity getting tied to either achievement or performance or the thing that you do is really easy to fall into that trap. So I've worked really hard the last few years because getting to the end of my career, like, you know, it's ending one day, right? Like, I've been doing track and field since I was 2 years old. I've been doing soccer since I was 3. Like, athlete is Annie, right? Like, it's how I have identified for my entire life. But I feel like the, the me training for the Olympics for Tokyo versus me training for Paris Olympic cycle were very different experiences. I had a lot of adversity um, after the Olympics. I got so excited to get after it again. I was super motivated. I didn't take enough time off, and I think my body just started breaking down, um, pretty early. And so I dealt with a lot of injury, um, that Olympic training cycle. And I think those moments, I really think like God was pushing me to figure out my identity because I didn't have that thing, right? Like, I had to sit and watch, you know, on Instagram, see everyone competing at the meets, and I'm sitting here doing rehab like trying to get my plantar fascia to grow back. So it's like those moments really forced me to figure out what fills my cup outside of track and field, outside of what I do, outside of the, um, the ego of getting to compete and winning a medal and all the attention that comes with that. Um, so, and then also just, uh, I feel like I was really— I struggled more, I would say, just with my day-to-day happiness and finding fun in the sport. I really struggled with that, that second Olympic cycle, which was interesting because I had more financial support. I just found myself being more miserable, like, through the day-to-day. I was older too. I think I was just getting this point where I'm like, gosh, you know, I'm getting to my 30s and I'm, I'm still doing this. And so it was just hard for me. I would have a lot of meetings with my my mental coach, and I remember vividly, he was like, one day, because I kept coming in with the same issues, the same struggles. He's like, we can talk about this till we're blue in the face. So he finally was like, okay, Annie, you have been pretty miserable the last few weeks. Because I have this tendency, and I think high performers, when you have a goal, you get tunnel vision, right? It's like, okay, I have a one-track mind to this thing. I don't have time to see my friends. I don't have time for anything outside of track and field. Especially with the Olympics, it's like, okay, it's go time. Like the 6 months leading to the Olympics, you really feel like you have tunnel vision and it's a pressure cooker. And I was really miserable because of that. And so one day he just gave me homework. He was like, okay, next time I meet with you, I want you to go find something that has nothing to do with track and field or sports or anything that you enjoy doing. I want you to go do it and report back. And so I went to a pottery class that week and I'm like, pottery in high school. And I'm like, I just never felt like I had the time. It's like, I don't have time for that. And it was so therapeutic. It was an outlet. I just, I loved it. And so I did that for a few weeks, you know, as like my, on my like my rare recovery day, I just went to a pottery class, really enjoyed it. And so it was just that, I just feel like those moments really started me, really made me think of like, okay, this, this thing's ending soon. Whether I get to the goal that I'm chasing or not, this thing's gonna end. And like, am I gonna sit there the day it's over and be like, what now? Who am I? I don't have this thing. So I really feel like God was putting me in moments to kind of figure that out. Um, and so I made time for my friends. I really just figured out the hobbies and things that I enjoy. I love like flipping furniture. There's just— there's so many facets to me and Annie that is not sport. And so I really think that I'm grateful for that because when the time came that the Olympic trials for, for Paris, I ruptured my plantar fascia moments before the race. So I wasn't able to, to compete. I was able to— I barely crossed the finish line in the hurdles, but it was the first event. I couldn't finish the rest of the meet. I had to watch in the stands the rest of the girls compete. And, and that, you know, that was such a hard time, but I feel like it was so much better than I anticipated because I had put in the work of finding out my identity and not attaching so much of my identity to what I do. Um, I just think it's a really important thing that— and I think that's something I still struggle with, you know. I'm a year, almost a year and a half past that time, and, you know, I think it's just constant work and remembering those things that I've learned in those, in those times. But It's a tough one.

Identity is hard. It is. I mean, there's people listening right now who are athletes, but there's other people listening going, I do like 70 hours a week at this job that I love, and that's who I am, and I'm judged by being the great lawyer or accountant or whatever it might be. But what I hear you say is that we are more than our jobs. We are more than our titles, and that we should have interests and hobbies and friends.

Yeah. And I found too, I think that when you're so attached to the end result, you're so attached to the outcomes, it's— those are the times when I've been the most miserable. Like, when you fall in love with the process, um, and when you look back to, like, you know, the medal moment, the podium moment— the Olympics is over in 2 weeks, the medal moment lasts like a minute, you know? It's like you work for so long and so hard for this little blip in your life or the result, right? And so I really have to remind myself of that journey in the Olympics with where I am now. It's like fall in love with the process. I'm in a different phase of life where I'm grinding and trying to start my business and it's a different kind of grind, right? And I've had those conversations even just with friends and family too of like, okay, maybe I'm not as passionate about what I'm doing, but I'm like, well, am I just not as passionate because I haven't seen the outcome yet. I haven't seen the result, and I'm just in that grind. I'm in that process, and I need to remember to enjoy that process because I'm learning so much. And when you also— I think when you get to that end result, or you don't, whether you get to that goal or you come up short, you look back and you're grateful for all the adversity because it forced you to grow in your character and built resilience in yourself. The people that you probably met along the way, the friendships that you made, you're grateful for the process and everything that led there. So I think that's important too, to just really try to not become so attached to the outcomes, as hard as that is. I know it's easier said than done.

No, it's beautifully said, Annie. I was chatting recently with a friend from Vancouver, and him and I were in the same group 20 years ago, and all we wanted to do was win the World Championship. So we were fortunate to win it a number of times, but we went back and we were chatting about that, going, was it worth it? And he said, you know what, it was always about winning, and it's all we wanted to do. But looking back, it was now about the people. It was about the connections we made, about the travel that we had, the ups, the downs. Like, who cared about the world championship? 20 years later, you don't really care. It's the people and the moments, and as you say, the process.

Yeah, I mean, I can't even tell you where my medal is in my house. Like, I don't even know where it is, you know? It's like, I worked so damn hard for that thing. And I don't even know where it gets packed in some box somewhere. You know, that's a beautiful thing.

What would you say? That's a beautiful thing. It just says so much about you.

Yeah, it is. It's— you really do. It's the process and the journey to get there, whether you get there or not. You know, it's not— that's always what you're going to love looking back on and be grateful for. So— and I have to constantly remind myself of that, you know, even in the phase of life that I'm in.

No, I get it. And for the person listening that really wants to be more successful or happier or whatever it might be in their career, what are 1 or 2 habits that you do daily that really help you be your best?

Oh, I mean, I think I always go back to gratitude. I think that starting your day, there's so much science to that too, of just starting your day with a gratitude list. My devotional, I think really I'm such a systems person. I'm such like a, what, you know, my morning routine, for example, is like my, my— that is my time of the day that like sets up I'm either going to have a good day or I'm not. So making time for like something that fills your cups, like for me, my devotional every morning, that really sets me up for the day, gets me in the right headspace. Movement also is something that I know sets me up well for the day, right? So prioritizing those things or really making sure those first few hours of your day are— those are when you're the most productive, right? So just really having like some systems first thing in the day, in the morning, that will help you set up for success to achieve those things that you need to do that day. That's probably the biggest thing that I love is just a gratitude list, starting with 3 things that you're grateful for. Sometimes mine is like this slow cup of coffee. It doesn't have to be big, right? But I think just this reframing and really getting in that positive outlook to start your day is really beneficial.

Yeah, I have to agree. In fact, I've had a couple of friends who have written books about morning routines, and they're some of the best-selling books on the planet. So one's called 5 AM Club. I don't know if you've came across that.

No, but I've been trying to join the 5 AM Club and it's so funny. I was talking to my friend this week because I've been kind of out of my routine of getting up at 5:30. I should push it to 5, but 5:30. And when I do, I am so much happier. I feel like I've gotten so much more done and I feel like I'm on task better all day. You just feel like you're ahead, right? And so I want to read it. I have a good business after this.

Go buy the 5 AM Club. And the other one is Hal Elrod. He wrote The Miracle Morning. And it's fantastic. So definitely highly recommend both books.

Yeah, I mean, morning routine, I think, is huge. It just sets you up for the day.

What are you most excited about for your next chapter in life?

Oh, God. You know, I think that I've just been in this— as an Olympian, you have— and I don't say this in a negative way at all— you have to be selfish, right? Like, you have to put— like we talked about, you put things on hold, relationships, friendships, all of it. It's all kind of on the back burner. Because you're chasing this big thing. And so I feel like I've had to be selfish for a very long time and I don't have any regret on that. I feel like I've learned so much about myself. I have no regrets, but I think that I'm really excited to step into this new transition and chapter and really be selfless. I feel like I've been so blessed with so much knowledge and people that have taught me so much along my journey that I wish I knew half the stuff I found out at 27 as even a 15-year-old athlete or in high school or a 21-year-old girl in college. With nutrition and all of that stuff. So, I'm really excited to just try to serve as much as I can and be more selfless in this next chapter and just try to use all the gifts that I think God has given me and the knowledge and the resources and just try to help others achieve their goals.

That's beautiful. And may I ask, so I grew up in Northern Ireland and I've got my own experience with conflict and religion and lots of things happened in Northern Ireland. So, God is not something that I speak about a lot or think about, but I'll tell you what, the more people that I talk to who I admire, they are talking a lot about their relationship with God and faith. So may I ask, what role has your faith and your connection with God played in the things you've done in your life and achieved in your life?

Oh, it's huge. It's really huge. And honestly, I think that you go back to the identity topic too. I think I've gotten to that point too, where, I was like, okay, God, I give it to you. And I know that you love me no matter if I make the Olympics or not. My identity, I'm a child of God. And that really, to me, releases a lot of that pressure and the fear that you have behind achieving things. And so I think just building that relationship with God was so important to my success too. It was what I leaned on in every moment of adversity. Who I would talk to 24/7 when I'm competing, getting ready for meets. I'm just praying constantly. And so to have that foundation and just know that I'm loved no matter what I do or what I achieve, I think is just so freeing and it's so important to me. And yeah, it's been a big part of my journey and even the whole story I always say there's purpose in your pain. And my story with getting injured at the Olympic trials, what happened was I went down in the warmup, I ruptured my plantar fascia, and obviously the most awful traumatic experience right before the race. Didn't get to go to the Olympics. But I will say this is such a testament to there's purpose in your pain. And it might not be— I don't think God— it might not always be about you, right? The pain that I went through really wasn't about me. It was actually touching someone else's life through my pain. And what I found out days after getting injured the way that I did— my brother, for example, he was never really a believer. My family didn't really grow up with faith, with religion, with going to church, anything like that. I found it later in my life. And so my brother was more of a scientific brain, right? He's very black and white, just wasn't always a believer. Well, when I went down in the warmup, he prayed for the first time. And, you know, he prayed that, you know, God, if you can just get my sister through this race, like, I'll dedicate my life to you. And I found this out days later. And, you know, he did. We got baptized 6 months later together. He drives around with worship music on now. He goes to church. He has a Bible on his dash. And I've just seen a change in him where I feel like he has purpose now. He feels loved. He has his identity. In Christ. And so I would go through what I went through 100 times over for my brother to be where he's at now. So yeah, I just think it's such a testament. You just never know. You might never know the why behind your pain, but there is purpose in it. And so finding that too is always helpful in those moments where, you know, your plans don't align with his plans.

Yeah, 100%. Annie, thanks for being vulnerable and open to share that. It's pretty special, and I appreciate it a lot.

Thank you. It's really a platform to talk about it. It's something that I am super grateful for.

I can see that. It's amazing. And I'm gonna also, for the listener, gonna put all of your socials in the links in the show notes. So if people wanna come and follow your journey, because your journey, people might think you're getting towards the end of your sport, but you've got such another amazing journey ahead. You have many chapters ahead. So I think people will wanna follow an Olympian. I just think you're a special kind of character to become an Olympian, and you've got so much more to offer the earth. After you've done your sport. You've offered so much already, but you've got all these chapters. So I'm excited for you.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it, James.

Can I ask one last question? Yeah. So if we fast forward many years into the future, and you're way, like maybe 60, 70 years, and you're highly aware it's your last day here on Earth, and someone you love dearly, so like maybe a great-grandchild, they come in, or someone in the family, they come in and they say, Annie, how do I go about leading my life on purpose? What would you say to them?

I would say build a relationship with Christ. I would say that's the first thing. Number one, build that foundation. I would say, you know, I, I would say that build, build those systems. You know, hard work and systems. You know, you don't always have to be motivated, but I think if you have systems that you implement to get to that, to your goals and your dreams and being very disciplined to executing those systems, I think that gives you the best shot. I think that's what allows you to not have regret, just really focusing on the controllables. What is in your control to get to the, you know, whatever your dream or whatever your goal is, what are the controllables and really focusing in on those. That way, you know, you can't give it— you have no regrets at the end of the day. You can look back and say, I did everything I could. I gave it all I had. And at the end of the day, you know, it's not me that crosses the finish line first, or it's not me that becomes the entrepreneur with, you know, a large brand and business or whatever, whatever the goal is. You can look back and know that you gave it everything and you're going to learn so much about yourself along the way.

Beautiful advice. There's going to be listeners listening right now going, Annie, I needed to hear that. So I deeply appreciate you sharing it.

Oh, of course. Yeah, I think I'm, I'm honestly a good case study of— I was not always the most talented. Like, I was not. I, but I, I was so— I'm, I pride myself on my discipline. I pride myself on doing the little things right and in my nutrition and my mindset and the daily systems. I was just so regimented and so committed to those things. And I think that's why I was successful, because at the end of the day, there were girls that were much more talented than me. So So, I really think hard work and discipline and commitment to your systems will take you a very long way.

I have to wholeheartedly agree. In my book that I released last year, the first thing I said, high performance is not a birthright. It's a habit. It is. If you're going to be good at anything, it's a set number of habits done over and over every day, your early morning routine, your fitness, your nutrition, whatever it might be. But it's simple things done well consistently over time that lead to incredible results.

A thousand.

I couldn't agree more. We're on the same page. Thank you so much for being here on the show, and I wish you nothing but the best for the future. I'll definitely be following along your journey.

Thank you so much for giving this opportunity to talk, my— bring my story to life. I appreciate it.

That's a pleasure. Take good care. Thank you.