Your Greatest Wins Are Built on Failure with Jim Harshaw

Today's special guest is Jim Harshaw. Enjoy the show, Jim. A huge welcome to the Lead on Purpose podcast.

Yeah, good to be here. Thanks for having me, James.

Oh, it's a joy. You know, I've been following your work for a while and when the team said, hey, I think we might have to get Jim on the show, I said, it's a hell yes from me. Because when I look at what you do, it's world class. And I feel that our philosophies are similar in a lot of ways. We have a similar outlook on performance, but a totally different, different background, a totally different experience of how you look at it. So I, I can't wait to unpack how you look at success, failure, you know, from your own perspective, from your clients. And of course, when I look at your podcast guest list, it's the who's who of high performers globally. So, Jim, I guess when I look at you, championship wrestler, tell us a little bit more about, you know, those younger days and what got you to the top.

Yeah, it was interesting. So I, you know, I grew up in the United States. Wrestling, Wrestling is one of the top, you know, five or six sports for boys growing up in America and wrestling was my thing. Never achieved any of my goals in high school. Had college wrestling aspirations again in the United States, NCAA or collegiate sport. It's a big deal, right? At our national championships for wrestling, there's 15,000 people a day for three straight days. It's just packed. And I had aspirations to wrestle in college, but I really didn't know if I was good enough for that. Like I said, I never achieved any of my goals in high school. But luckily I got a couple of coaches had seen me compete and train. They're like, you know what, I think there's something in this kid. And so got recruited to the University of Virginia, which is the number one public university, education wise, in the United States. I come from a family of a blue collar family where my dad was a construction, construction worker, mom was a secretary. Nobody in my family had ever graduated from college. So just going to college was a big step for me, sort of psychologically. And I'm like, I don't even know if I can survive here, let alone thrive. I got, I got the application process. You know, I got in because of wrestling. Like wrestling opened the door for me. So I didn't get in without wrestling. I was a good student, but not a great student. So I could never have gotten into this level of school. It's like an Ivy League type Of school, wrestling wise, everybody on the team was one of the best in the country. I was a nobody. And really, even socially, I didn't know if I was going to fit in because again, I'm a blue collar kid. I don't know if you. Do you guys use that term, blue collar?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm in New Zealand, but growing up in Ireland, blue collar. My dad's a welder, my mom's a civil servant. Definitely a similar existence.

Yeah, you know, working class and got there and I realized, you know, I don't know if I can cut it here. I don't know if, like I said, I don't know if I can survive, let alone thrive. But fast forward five years later. I competed my entire, all my years in college. I won three conference championships and I got to the national championships every year that I competed. And I got onto the podium as what is called an all American. I was top eight in the country. So I was one of the best in America at what I did. I got invited to live and train at the Olympic Training center as an Olympic hopeful. So just a complete transformation formation happened there. I graduated with two degrees from the number one public university in the country. And I found my way socially. So really I was able to not just survive, but thrive in all of these areas. And there was an infrastructure there that I think you really would get this, James. There was an infrastructure that allowed me to blossom, allowed me to really go from good to great. And that's really what I work with my clients on is like, how do we rebuild that framework, that that infrastructure into your life so you can actually maximize your potential now. And there's a four part framework that I lead my clients through.

That's incredible. Thanks for sharing that. And you know, I think a lot of people could relate to this because the vast majority of humans that I meet, you know, are not silver spoon. They haven't, you know, been born into wealth. There's a small number who are, but most people have to figure it out and fight for it. And a lot of them end up just settling and just settling for whatever gets put in front of them. But there's the odd one like yourself who goes, actually, you know what? I want more and I want to how far I can go and I want to push myself. Do you think that that mentality is innate? Do you think you're born with that?

Yeah, I think it's different for everybody. There's so many life experiences that you have, like some people maybe are a little bit Born with that. But you look at people who are raised in the same household and some have it and some don't. And then you look at their influences or micro influences. For me, growing up around in sport, I just had a lot of unique experiences. I was surrounded by Olympians and national champions and people who were the best in the world at what they did. So I always had that, those people I was around. So this is a critical. One of those four steps of my program is called the environment of excellence. And we all gravitate towards the people around us, the level of the people around us. So the famous quote, we are the average of the five people that we're surrounded by or that we spend the most time with. And I was blessed to be able to spend time with really high level people like yourself. And it just raises your standard. Like so, for example, when I went to the Olympic Training center to train the bar, when I went from high school to college, certainly the bar for work ethic and standard, what kind of fuel you put in your body, how you train, how you deal with failure and setback and resilience, all of that, the bar went up and then when I went to the Olympic Training center, the bar went. Now I'm around world class athletes. Now the bar is even higher. And you just, you gravitate to that, right? It's actually wrote a LinkedIn poster about this recently. Like you, you, you don't even know the air that you breathe, right? It's just inherent. Like when you're in at the Olympic Training center training with world class athletes in wrestling and all the other sports, it's, you know, excellence is just, it's just what you do. It's the stand, it's in the air, right? It's how people walk and talk and the food they eat and how they train. All of this stuff really critical for people. For you, the listener out there listening, like to find and surround yourself with the people who are doing what you want to do. If you're around average people, you're going to gravitate towards that. If you're around negative people, you're going to gravitate towards that. And so you really have to work at it as an athlete. It's inherent, right? For somebody who's in, let's say the special forces in the military, it's inherent. That's who they're around. Like if you watch the, the opening ceremonies of the Olympics, which I love to watch that, you know, you look at all these people from all around the world, different cultures different skin colors, different sports, different everything. But they all have a few things in common, really. Two. Number one, they all have a coach, right, who kicks in the rear end or helps them course correct if they need that. And they're all surrounded by world class athletes. And so it's the same for us. We look at that, we know that in sport. But for you, the listener, like, you have to consciously, intentionally create that because it's just not there by default.

Yeah, you're so well said. I really resonate with that strongly. Can we actually look at those four elements of your framework for a second? What are those four?

And when I tell you this, James, you'll be, yes, of course. These are all like, this is the stuff that you coach and that you teach as well on your podcast. So I put it together into a framework that really, people get this and you can see how you can now implement this into your life. So there's four parts. Number one is this as an athlete, whether the listener of whether you are an athlete or not, it doesn't matter, right? Or a world class musician like yourself, James, like, number one is you have a very clear vision for what success looks like, right? It's, you know, making the starting lineup or winning the competition, advancing in the post season, making it to the top of the podium. It's all very clear. It's compelling, it's exciting, it's binary, it's black and white. We know whether we're on track or not on track. And out here where we're at, it's not clear, right? We can thumb through social media and see 10 different examples of what success looks like. In the next three minutes, we can start comparing ourselves to our neighbors and what's parked in their driveway and all. Like, we can see success in a lot of different ways, but it's like step one is getting a clearly defined, compelling vision for what we actually want out of our life. And it shouldn't be based upon what our parents wanted for us, what's parked in our neighbor's driveway, or what the mask media tells us that we should want. It should be this compelling vision for you. And when we do, when you have that, that clarity, that radical clarity like you talk about, when you have that radical clarity, it unlocks your experience, your knowledge, your wisdom, your, Your education, your work ethic. All of that gets unlocked. Now if you don't have that, that's when people start saying, well, I'm drifting, I'm inconsistent, I lack focus, I'm easily distracted. It's. Well, it's because you're missing that very clear, crystallized vision. So that's step one of four.

Can we ask you before we go to step two? So if someone's listening right now, going as an athlete or as a leader or whatever they're doing, I really don't know what I want. What's the one question? If they were sitting in front of you and they were your client, what's the one question you would ask them to help them start unlocking that?

Yeah, I have a bunch of those. And these are like bunker buster questions. And one of them is, this is actually, this is actually an exercise that we do with my clients. The first one, this is a question from. It's called solutions based therapy. It's a question based on therapy, and it comes from the cognitive behavioral therapy world. And it is the miracle day question. Like, if you go to bed and then you wake up and overnight while you're sleeping, a miracle happens and you wake up to your dream life and you start going through the day, what do you start? Like, what do you notice when you wake up? Like, where are you? Like, what room are you in? What house are you in? Where do you live? You look out in your driveway, what's parked out there? You look at your significant other or family or friends, like, who are they? Where are you going to work? Are you working from home? What type of people are you around? What are they? Like, you start putting all this together. And I have my, my clients script this out. They do it on their own. Then they meet with me or one of my coaches, we walk through this with them and ask them questions and tell me more about this. I think you left this part out. And this looks great. You know, are you really dreaming or thinking, is this really a miracle or is this just kind of like a little bit better of a day, like tomorrow? Right. And so that's the first question, another one that really. And by the way, like, doing this with a coach, with a trained person amplifies the results by 10x. Right? And then the second, another question we'll do is, if you were given a billion dollars, what would you do? What would you do? Like, just a, a crazy amount of money. And it was given to you, like, what do you do with that? And some people go, well, my life wouldn't change that much. It's still maybe get a little nicer car, a little nicer. House was like, no, what else would you do with it? Okay, well, I give it to this philanthropy. I would pay off my parents home or now. Okay, what else would you. Well, I'd set up my kids college fund. Okay, you start asking, what else, what else, what else? It starts to reveal what they actually care about, like what they actually want. That starts to help them with that clarity. And then a third question is the funeral exercise. Like, what do you want people to say at your funeral? And then we also ask, what would that, what would they say? Now we identify people like closest family member, best friend, colleague whom you most respect. What would they say now? And then what would you want them to say? What would you really want them to say? And that shows you the delta, the difference between where you're at and where you want to get to. And so all of this reveals a picture of that vision for your life. And if you come at it directly, it's like most people just can't figure it out. I know you've told stories about that too. Like you, you've had a client where, you know, you said, what do you want? He's like, I don't know, you know, like, well, you got to actually do the work. And so once you get that, those are. Anyway, so I'll pause there. Those are some questions that really help people get that radical clarity.

So powerful, Jim. And I think the key thing to underline here is one, this is not to be rushed. This is something you think deeply about, you create space to think about. Secondly, yeah, you could do this with your LLM and talk to ChatGPT or whatever about it, but actually having a real human guide you through this and challenge you and support you, it's, I mean, invaluable. And when you think of the greatest athletes, the greatest singers, the greatest performers in the world, what's the one thing they all have, as you said a minute ago, coach. And so that's the value of coaching. And I'm sure you, throughout your life, you've had a coach help you get clearer on what you really want.

100%. I have multiple coaches. Just had a coaching call yesterday morning with my performance coach and just had a huge breakthrough in terms of why I do what I do. And I'm working on this stuff all the time and I'm coaching other people through it. And I've been working with him for a long time. Like you continue to have these breakthroughs. Whenever you have somebody, you know that analogy of, you know, outside of the jar, we're on the inside of the jar trying to read the label. We need that person who's outside of us who can, who can reflect on what we just said and hey, you told me this last week, week. And we need that person. I interviewed a guy named Jeff Spencer. He was a world class athlete himself, Olympian in cycling, and he's worked with Lance Armstrong, Tiger Woods, YouTube, Bono. Bono from YouTube, Bono from U2 has a performance coach. Think about that. This guy's the best in the world at what he does. He's arguably one of the greatest musicians of all time and he has a coach like, well, wait, wait a second, why does he have a coach? He's the best. Well, he's the best because this is how he thinks. He brings people into his universe, into his world that push him, challenge him, help him get that radical clarity.

That's beautiful. I love that. So folks, if you're listening right now, start looking for your coach, if you don't have one. And certainly I'm going to put a link to Jim's website in the show notes. Go and check out what Jim offers as a coach. And clearly you work with the best of the best. So you've got the skills. Now let's look at number two. What's step number two?

Yeah, step two is once you get that first step, that compelling vision, the second step is now, okay, what are the goals that I have to set that are going to get me there? Right, Specific goals. And listen, when I was wrestling, when I was competing as an athlete, it's kind of single minded focus. But for most of my listeners, most of your listeners and our clients, that single minded focus doesn't necessarily work as well. We have other stakeholders, maybe we have family, we have maybe local boards that we're on, we're philanthropic. And what are the area, you know, so what are the goals you need to set? And we set goals in four areas. Relationships, self, health and wealth. Wealth or career. Right. Everybody wants to focus on the wealth, career ones. Well, it's like, well, you can have all the money in the world and all the success there, but if your relationships are out of order or your health is not, well, you know, they say, you know, if you have, you know, when you have your health, you have a thousand problems. When you don't have your house, you have one problem, right? So it's really critical to set these goals, very clearly defined goals in each of these areas. And then what we have, it was called micro goals. And these are the monthly goals that we break down every month. Okay, what do we need to do this month, next 30 days to work towards this goal that is going to get me to that vision that that ultimate vision of my life. And literally we're scoring this. They get percentage scores, there's a, it's color coded. You can see from a glance on your dashboard, how am I doing? And like, as an athlete, I never competed without having a scoreboard. Right. I always knew my win loss record throughout the season. You know, athletes, we know this, they track their 40 speed, they track their speed, their times on the track, they track their bench press in the gym. Like, we have to do the same thing. We have to track this. So that's the second step is these aligned goals, goals that are aligned with the vision tethered to that vision.

Amazing. And just for a second, in terms of length, duration, are we talking five year vision, 10 year? Do you, when you get that step two, are we talking the next month, 12 months? What's the length?

Yeah, so we tend, we generally aim for that, that vision is the three to five year vision for step one. And then step two is, we typically aim for about a year. We say minimum six months, maximum about a year and a half. Those aren't hard. Certainly no longer, no shorter than six months. Otherwise, we call that a micro goal. So it's at six months, if not 18 months or even longer. Because sometimes what happens when people will say, what's your goal? My goal is to.

My goal is to get to the gym or my goal is to sign up for a gym membership and it's like. Or my goal is to.

Do better in my job. It's like, these are, first of all, they're not specific and measurable and they're not big enough. Right. It's like sometimes people will write a goal and it's like something they can do tomorrow. It's like, okay, well that's, that's, that's not a goal. That's an action item. That's a to do list item. Right. And that's why people go, I, I set the goal and I forget what it is, and now I achieved it yesterday and now I don't know what to do. It's like, no, that's, that's a micro goal. That's part of something larger. And so we typically aim for six to 18 months. As a, as a general frame.

That's brilliant. Thank you for that. And what's step number three?

Step three is the environment of excellence. Going back to the, the five people you, you know, you spend the most time with. You're the average of them. So it's the coach, it's the accountability that you have when you're Part of a team, part of a group. So a lot of my coaching is around community because that's just what levels people up. It's a big part of what levels people up. It's like the coach and then also the community. And then there's also an internal component of the environment of excellence too. It's like the internal environment. Like, what are the words that I'm saying to myself? What are the things that I think? What are the feelings that come upon me whenever I fail or struggle or see some kind of challenge or opportunity in front of me? You know, how am I, how am I thinking about that? So there's the internal environment of excellence, and then there's the external environment of excellence.

We talk a little bit about, you know, control your controllables when we're dealing with athletes, often no different for us everyday humans. So when it comes to environment, do you believe we have quite a bit of influence over that environment?

Yeah. I mean, so, so you say, okay, you know, Jim, I'm not, I'm not, you know, I would like to surround myself with Olympians and, you know, I've been blessed in my professional life to be surrounded by millionaires and billionaires as well. And you're like, wow, Jim, I don't have that right. I don't have that in my community. I don't have that in my job. You can still find it. You can still. You can listen to the podcast like you're doing right now. You can read the books. You can, you can reach out to people online. I mean, you know this as well as I do, James. Like, it's so easy to reach out to people online and ask them, hey, like, you know, what did you do to get there? And how can you know, what are the books you read even? Would you spend some time with me? You can ask the person for a coffee or to do a 15 minute Zoom meeting. There are websites you can go to now where you can book a coaching call with all these celebrities and people who are world class at what they do. I can't even think of the names of the websites now, but like, they're out there. You can google them and you can book 15 minutes or an hour if you want with the CEO of some company who is running a company that you would love to get into that industry. Like, it's out there. It is available for you. But you can't just listen to this podcast episode and me saying these words and go, oh, that sounds like a good idea. Like, you have to go do it. You actually have to go do it. And again, listen, I'm not pushing for the listener to hire me or to hire James. We're saying get somebody in your corner who's invested in you. Because if they say, okay, who are you going to book a call with or who are you going to reach out with out to? And then they write it down and document you have it documented and then you have to report back to them in a month. Did you do it or did you not do it? That's when you really get results, 100% on the research. One more interesting point here. I do this October challenge every year. It's public.

And anybody can sign up. It's the month of October, from October 1st, October 30th, it's a 30 day challenge. And you get to choose your own habits for the month, like three to five habits. And then we track it publicly, right? There's a spreadsheet and everybody has access to it and they can retract it and there's a leaderboard and all that. I have a friend of mine who's an Olympian, four time Olympian, and Ruben Gonzalez is his name. He's actually trying to become a five time Olympian. He'd be the first ever, he'd be the oldest ever winter Olympian. He's an amazing guy in the luge. But he actually talked to him this morning. He's like, man, your October challenge was amazing. It helped me do the things that I needed to do, that public accountability. I got another email from a friend of mine. She's a very high performer in her career and her job and she's like, jim, all of this stuff I could have been doing on my own, but I wasn't because I just didn't have the clarity and the accountability. So a couple of little simple ingredients that you can mix in here that will get you to take the actions that, you know, James, you and I.

Are talking about right now, that's so powerful. And I think community is the key here because in the last five to 10 years, there's been a lot of isolation in terms of I'll do it at home, I'll work from home, I'll get the digital coach to coach me, I'll do all the things. But actually we can see that the results are not fruitful because people do need real humans around them to inspire them, to motivate them, to hold them to account. So find your community, find your mentor, your coach, whether that's paid, whether that's unpaid, whatever it is, but get people around you who are better than you that said thing, who can be radically honest with you.

Yep. I mean, I think back to my athletic days. Like, I had coaches who had already done the things that I wanted. They'd become all Americans and National champions and Olympians and I got to be around them. And it's just how it works. And some of them, I'll be honest, I have, I had coaches who never achieved what I achieved, but they had helped others achieve it. Right. So even if you can find somebody who maybe hasn't done what you wanted to do, but they've helped others do what you want to do, even if that want to do thing is just be more consistent, be more focused, be more locked in. Like if you can find somebody that will help you do that, you know, and again, talking to the listener, like, you know that if you lock in on those habits consistently, whether it's diet or nutrition or exercise or whether it's making those sales calls or doing the LinkedIn outreach to network for your, your, your company or your brand that you want to start, like, if you consistently do those, like, you know what the results could be. And so is it, is it worth reaching out to somebody and getting a coach in your corner to hold you accountable? Well, if it's going to get you to do the things then, then yes. I mean, James has coaches and I have coaches, and this is, this is just how success works.

100%. Yeah. I think back to being a drummer flying to Vancouver, Canada, and the guy who was my coach there was, you know, multiple time world champion, many years my senior, and it was intimidating and I was very uncomfortable every single time I stepped up to perform. And even there, like, it wasn't, wasn't fun sometimes because it was nerve wracking. But actually I look after six months and go look back, whoa. Like, I'm a much better performer. Like, my skill set has lifted, my confidence has lifted. And do that year after year with a great coach. The results are incredible.

Yeah, it just. Sometimes you can't even see them. Right. Sometimes you don't even know because sometimes they're invisible. I mean, sometimes there's a breakthrough, right? Sometimes there's a tactic, a magic tactic that somebody gives you and you're like, oh, wow, breakthrough. Other times it's just these small micro adjustments and sometimes you even go, oh, I should have thought that myself. I could have figured it out myself. But you didn't. And the coach helps you. Right? Or that community helps you. And so you just have to consistently buy into that. Like, so for example, this, this breakthrough that I had with my coach. You know, I'll be honest, I entered the call, the performance coaching call with him and thinking like, I don't really have a whole lot to work on today. It was the most valuable call I've had with him in months.

To show up, even if you don't think you need to just show up.

Yeah.

Yeah, I love it. And what's number four?

Yeah, number four. So step one, vision. Clear vision, compelling vision. Step two, aligned goals. Step three, environment of excellence. Fourth and finally is this.

You are going to get knocked off of your path. It is a fact. You may get sick, or the kids might get sick, or your car might break down, or you might lose your job, or the economy might go in the tank or the holidays come, right? Or you go on vacation. You will get knocked off your routines and your habits. It is inevitable. You still have to have a long, you have to have a plan to follow through, a long term plan for follow through. And again, going back to the athlete analogy that's just in place. We just have that like somebody else tells me when to show up at practice. Somebody else tells me when the events, the competitions are. It's all that infrastructure is there. And so if you don't have that, you will get this compelling vision. That's great. This sounds exciting. I have these great goals. It's environment of excellence. And then it's like this stuff goes, gets put up onto a shelf because you, you know, went on vacation, you're hungover or you know, you, you're off, you're out of your habits or you know, you get sick, whatever it is, you know, a bad conversation with your boss and you know, you get demoted, whatever it is, you, you have to know where the path is. And that long term plan for follow through involves accountability and tracking and all of the things you have to, have to actually follow through long term.

Amazing. That's fantastic. I hope that everyone's listening is writing this down. We'll put a little summary below as well. But Jim, I want to talk about one of the critical parts of success and that's failure. And I work often with people and groups around failure. What do we believe about failure? And it's often very negative connotations and negative ideas and it's to be avoided and it's terrible and it slows us down. Look, I think failures are a great teacher in a lot of ways and it's the only way to succeed long term. So I'm fascinated by your thoughts and also Your IP around failure and how we can use that to help us move forward.

Yeah, so my podcast used to actually be called Success Through Failure. And that was the crux. That was the key thing that we talked about. And I've interviewed people like you, and I spoke about him. Russell Brunson, Ken Blanchard, who's sort of one of the original influencers before the Internet was a big deal. Right. Jack Canfield, Tim Ferriss, these guys. And I always ask them about failure. Like, tell me about a time when you failed. And you wouldn't believe the stories of failure that these individuals have. And so I've come to realize that failure is an ingredient. It's a necessary ingredient for success. So I look back at my wrestling career and I actually give a TEDx talk on this. If you just Google my name and ted Talk or TedX Talk, you'll find it. It's seven minutes and it's called why I Teach My Children to Fail. And it's mostly about my career as an athlete, which was mostly failure until my senior year, my final year in competition, my 17th year, when I finally succeeded my freshman first year in college, my goal is to be an All American again, which is top eight in America. I failed. I qualified for the national championships, but you have to win at least four matches there to be an All American. I failed sophomore year, same thing, qualified for the national championships again. I failed junior year, pretty much a repeat of the prior two years, qualified for the national championships. But again I. My season ended with me, my face buried in a towel in the locker room, blood on my lips, just humiliated in failure, once again, thinking, why can't I do this? Why? What's wrong with me? Maybe I'm just. Maybe it's just not in the cards for me. Maybe I'm not good enough, not smart enough, not capable enough. And for the listener, you felt that way. Maybe you feel that way right now. Maybe you felt that way in the past, and as a result, you've lowered your goals, you settled for less, and you're afraid of taking those risks. And. But you have to realize failure is a necessary step on that path to success. In my senior year, I had one more shot, and I approached the season with. I had a great breakthrough because of this failure. The entire off season between my final year and the year prior, after I found myself sort of failing again, I had that off season to dedicate to. Okay, what is the thing? I got one more year. I got one more shot to do this in college. What is it that I'm missing. So I dedicated my entire off season. I traveled around, I found every opportunity to train with the best wrestlers I could find in America. And at the end of the summer, came back into the season's about to start. I'm sitting in a hotel room in West Virginia in the United States, here, and sitting on the edge of my bed, and it hits me like, I never figured it out. I actually, I never figured out that thing. I'm like, oh, no. Well, all I can do is all I can do. And I realized I gave up on the outcome. I truly gave. I said, listen, if it's in the cards for me, great. If it's not, I have to be okay with that. And I put my fear of failure down and I just went out and competed with Freedom, saying, I'll do my best and if that lands me on the podium at the NCAA national championships, great. If not, I have to be okay with it. And I went out and competed with Freedom the next day in Freedom, that entire senior season, and I reached my goals and it was because of failure. Sometimes we find success despite failure. Sometimes we find it because of failure. And the more you look into the lives of highly successful people, the more you will see that there is failure, there is setback, there is pain and suffering along the way. And so whatever your experience, for the listener, whatever you're experiencing and have experienced, that's normal. That's part of your path to success.

Well done, Jim. That's seriously brilliant. And it's interesting when you hold on to something so tightly, whether it's an ideal, whether it's an outcome, whether it's even another human, you're holding on so tight, like, please don't leave me, I want to win. Often you're doing the opposite. You're pushing that thing away from you. And what I'm hearing from you is just loosen up, be loose, be free, and know where you're headed, but actually focus on the process rather than the outcome.

That's it. I mean, you truly. I tell young athletes and I tell my clients who are mostly middle aged men, right, Trying to achieve their own sort of gold medal, whatever that is, in their career or life. I tell me you can't control the outcome. Like you literally cannot control it. And it's like, wait, it's like, what do you mean, Jim? Like, I can control it and I can work hard, I can do all the things like. No, you, you can control the process, but really when it comes to the outcome, let's say it's a sales presentation if, you know, if the CEO has having a bad day and you're pitching the CEO of some company for company for your product and he had a bad day, or she had a bad day and. Or the person who was supposed to be there couldn't show up for the meeting, or all these multitude of variables that can impact the outcome, like, you don't control those. You literally control just you and how you show up and doing your best. And listen, some days your best is going to be 80% of what it might be another day, but your job is to get the 80% out of yourself that day. And. And that's all we can control. And whenever we, whenever we embrace this, and this is sports psychology or Performance Psychology 101, I mean, this is the basics of it. I thought I had. Just when I kind of went through my senior year and had this breakthrough year, I was like, oh my gosh, like, this is a huge breakthrough. Like, nobody knows this stuff. Like, you know, this is all about releasing the outcome. And. And then I go on to realize, like, oh, no, this is actually like what performance coaches teach you, right? This is literally how the best in the world get the best out of themselves. They go, you know, and a friend may say this to me once, he said, you have to love to compete more than you love to win. And I was like, ah, that crystallizes it. You have to love to compete. And whatever that competition is for us, right? It could be the talk, it could be the presentation, it could be the, I don't know, the ten pounds that we're trying to lose or the marriage that we're trying to heal. Like, you've got to love to compete, to get after it, to do your best more than you love winning, because that will free you up to be the best version of yourself.

What I hear there is the intrinsic versus extrinsic motivation. To win is the extrinsic. It's the accolade, the award, the status. Whereas to compete, that's intrinsic. I'm doing it because I bloody love competing and I just get such a kick from that. And we can see in people who are deeply, extrinsically motivated, generally misery follows them pretty quickly. And they get the quick win and they're happy for a minute and then they're back to, well, what's next? What's next? But the people who have the fulfillment, they generally are deeply intrinsically motivated.

Yeah, Pursuing excellence, right? Really trying to be the best at their craft, whatever they're trying to do, just trying to be Your best and not somebody else's best, but like your best. And your best is going to be different from the next person. It might be higher, might be lower. Showing up to do your best. And, you know, it's so cliche, but the cliche is it's true.

Yeah. And let's talk about that failure piece again. Just for the person that's going, I have failed. I am a failure. I'm not moving forward. Is there any tools that you could help them with to actually move forward?

Yeah, I actually have a document that I share, and I'll make this available to your audience here as well. It is a, I call it the success through failure exercise, where it's a written exercise where you, you actually process the failure. And it sucks. We don't want to do it. I know. But it is how you learn from failure. So when I interviewed Tim Ferriss, he told me, he said, you know, it's not, you know, failure in and of itself doesn't breed learning and growth and eventual success. It's the learning from failure. The pause, the, the stopping, reflecting, identifying, you know, what went right, what went wrong. In the United States, in the military, they call it the after action Review. What went right? Okay, so let's start with. Let's start with what went right and what we did. Well. Right. Let's start with the positive. Say not everything went wrong.

Right.

Some things went right. Okay. Let's identify those. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. I don't know if that's a saying, you know, throw the baby out with the bathwater. Like, let's not throw everything out here. Let's say, wait a second, there's some good things here too. And then what went wrong? What was my fault? Like, what was my fault in what went wrong? Let me take ownership of what went wrong and where can I improve? And then also what went wrong that just was, was out of my, out of my, my context, out of my, you know, ability to influence that. And when we do that, we, we, we learn. I actually did this recently with a client and he showed up just so broken from. To a coaching call from a big deal that he lost for his business. And, and by the time, by the end of the call, he actually felt good, you know, better. Not like, happy that he lost the deal, but like, like he realized I'm actually better for that because of that. Not despite that I'm actually a better salesman now because of what happened there and because we processed it.

Thank you for sharing that with the audience. And I'll make sure we put the link in the show notes for that because there will be a lot of people that want to actually work through that and take their time. And I guess this is probably an important note. Most of the people listening to my podcast are high performers, high achievers. They've got lots on the go. Often they might use the word busy, had a busy week, have a busy month ahead. But it's important to take the time to slow down and think. So with your clients that you work with, do you encourage them or even just schedule time for them to slow down and think?

Yeah, I know you call it think time. And it's, it's so I've published 500 and some episodes of my podcast over the past decade. And I've interviewed New York Times bestselling authors and Olympic gold medalists, Navy Seals and on and on. Right. World class performers. And I always ask them some version of the question, what's the one habit you most credit for your success and for the Olympic gold medalist? You think it would be some kind of training habit? For the New York Times bestselling author, you think it would be some kind of writing routine or habit, but it never is. And they always say some version of stepping back, getting clarity before re engaging. One of my clients says, jim, you need to extract me from the matrix so that I can get clarity.

Right?

We need to be extracted from the matrix, whether that's working with a coach. Some of my podcast guests have said, journaling, I journal regularly. Or it can be as small and simple as before. I turn on my computer in the morning, I rotate away from my desk and I write down what are the three to five things I have to do to win the day today? Just that little bit of clarity that takes 30 seconds or a minute, right? What do I have to do to win the day? Or on a larger scale, like an annual basis, taking a day or two to reflect on the prior year and plan for the next year. All these I put into the same bucket. And I've trademarked this term. It's called the productive pause. And the productive pause is this. It's a short period of focused reflection around specific questions that leads to clarity of action and peace of mind. Mind. Clarity of action, peace of mind. Like that is what we want. And whenever we get that clarity, it amplifies our results. Like, here's the deal, everybody wants to get results and they think, oh, I've got to work harder. I've got to burn the candle at both Ends I've got to, you know, wake up earlier, stay later, sacrifice my health, my family, my sleep, all of these things. It's like, no, no, no. Like, you know this probably better than anybody, James, with the guys you work with, people you work with, like, it's not about working harder, it's about getting more out of the time. And so, you know, what are the actual things I can do to move the needle? Think time will help you be strategic. It's not about waking up and doing the same thing today for no better reason than that's what I did yesterday. And I'm going to do the same thing tomorrow for no better reason than that's what I did today. Like, no, let's change what we're doing so we can change the outcomes and change the results. And that takes stopping, pausing, stepping back. Henry Ford, the great American entrepreneur who started Ford Motor Company, he said thinking, he said thinking is the hardest thing you can do, which is why most people don't do it. Consider that thinking is the hardest thing we can do, which is why most people don't do it. It's easier to check my email. It's easier to pick up my phone and be distracted. It's easier just to be busy all day long rather than to stop and do the think time, to stop and do the productive pause because that requires a different level of energy. It is hard, right, to step back and how do I do it again? This is where a coach can come in and help you, but you step back, do the thinking, do the journaling and then you get clarity. Now I can re engage and actually work on the right things that are going to move the needle instead of the busy work like checking email or scrolling through my phone.

Jim, that's so powerful. And you heard it here first, folks. The productive pause. Be more productive by pausing. Product productivity is not driven by how fast and hard you work. It's about how clear you are on what you're doing and using that as a strategy. I love it.

You know, use this example real quick. Is like, and I, I hesitate to use this example because I know he's a controversial figure these days, but Elon Musk, he runs six multi billion dollar companies. Six of them. Is his secret working hard? No, his secret is not like he has the same 24 hours in a day that we all have. He's doing different things. And so that's just, we all know those people in our lives who they're not working any harder than you and I. They're just getting different results. And so we have to think that way too.

Yeah, I don't follow the masses. Yeah, I'm with you. What's the one habit that's really helped you achieve what you've achieved in your life?

It goes back to everything I just shared. I mean, really, truly, that productive pause. Investing in coaches, in, you know, investing in myself, you know, not doing just the busy work. Certainly we get bogged in the busy where I check my email and I scroll through my phone, I do all that stuff, right? But it's, that's the low value stuff, the high value stuff. The high value habit is that step back, that pause. I do it with my coaches, I do it myself. I do it with my clients. I have them do the productive. It's like if you have a, you, if you can build these systems in, build this think time, build these productive pauses into your calendar. And that's what I do. So for me, it has been that and then, you know, some of the ancillary ones. And I would maybe even put these into the category of a productive pause. It's, it's getting the right amount of sleep and it's getting fitting in my workouts, like doing the workouts, you know, the, the results of that. If you could bottle, you know, the, the drug bottle. That is a drug. The, the, the what you get from exercise, like we'd be billionaires, right? The, you know, making time for that stuff again, that amplifies your results, amplifies your confidence, your productivity, your ability to focus, get better sleep. And even like you know, every Sunday I, I, I have a salad every day for lunch. Every Sunday I cut up my vegetables, right? It takes me a half an hour and I cut them all up and I put them in a bin so I can just very easily make a salad loaded with all kinds of vegetables. Like that's a, also a productive pause, right? It is a time spent that allows me to put the right fuel into my body so I can show up for my family and for my business and my clients as the best version of myself.

I love that. And I know there's going to be someone that asks, Jim, what are the vegetables? How do you cut them up? So expect someone to email you on that one.

Yeah, I'll have that all up. We'll put that in a document. I'll show you my cutting techniques.

You're legend, Jim. Just before we wrap, up, a couple of questions. So for you, you bookend your day. You know, the start of the day and the end of the day. What would a typical bookend look like for you in terms of habits or routines?

Yeah, so beginning of the day, first thing I do, drink a big glass of water. Right away, big glass of water. And then I typically exercise most days and then it's kind of get ready, get the kids ready and you know, I take creatine in the morning, I eat a hard boiled egg and I drink a protein shake or a protein drink and that's my morning sort of routine.

Right.

And then it's get the kids ready for the day. And then at the beginning of my workday, on the best days, if I don't have that meetings right away, I spend about a half an hour reading Fuel for my brain and I have a couple, couple books I like to keep going back through. So it's just some reading and then some mindset work. So that's really like, that's how I started my day today. And it just changes how I work. It makes me do the higher level work, keeps me above the minutiae. So that's the beginning of the day and the end of the day is preparing for tomorrow. I always say, you know, your ideal morning, your ideal day starts the night before. And so for me it is laying out my workout clothes, setting up the coffee pot, getting things ready so that my morning can move friction free. Right. And so I can actually, you know, get to sleep on time, get a good amount of sleep, get my workouts in and be ready to go. So it's just preparing for the next day.

That's beautiful. I often say with clients, ptt plan tomorrow today. Like let's get that stuff done. Like it makes tomorrow much easier when you get started.

Yeah, we're saying the same stuff folks. Were you listening? Like there are like success leaves clues. You got to do this stuff.

Yeah, absolutely. No, I love it. Now Jim, one final question and before I ask that final question, if people want to connect in with you, what's the best way for them to connect with you?

Yeah, you can find me on any social media. LinkedIn is my, is where I'm at the most and interact with a lot of people there. And I'm trying to share really highly valuable posts on LinkedIn that people just get value from. So anywhere on social media but my website, jimharshaw junior.com, you can find me there. If you want to book a free coaching call jimharshowjr.com apply or if you want to download those action plans and resources that I mentioned earlier. Jimharsowjr.com Action.

We'll put all of that in the show notes. It makes it super easy for people to come in, but I've really enjoyed today. It's been incredible. I think there's many more episodes to be done, so it's just phenomenal. Got lots to chat about. But the final question is that I ask this to everyone. Probably 400 guests have asked the same question to, to finish. So if we fast forward many years into the future and you're highly aware that it's your last day here on earth and someone really young that you love, maybe it's a grandchild, a great grandchild, they come into the room, they go, jim, how do I go about leading my life on purpose? What might you say to them?

Man, what a great question, James. I would tell them.

To get around the right people, like fuel their brain. Your brain is this, this powerful tool. There's this quote from guy named Josh Waitzkin. He said, if our, if our mind is a supercomputer, our self talk is the program that's running it. So we need to fuel that supercomputer with the right words. Because you have all the potential in the world to be whatever you want in whatever, whatever you dream of that is possible for you. So you have to surround yourself with the right people in the right words, in the right books, in the right media. Get around those people because they will lift you up and help you through the hard times and they will make your path straighter.

Such beautiful advice. You've heard it here first, folks. Get around great people. The one thing I'm hearing over and over, Jim, is it's about people. It's about connection. It's community, it's accountability. It's not about getting the quick, fast app that does everything for you and the ChatGPT that sends you the reminder that stuff's useful for some things, but actually to have a really fulfilling, successful life, you do it with people, through people. And I think that's such a great takeaway. So thank you for sharing that with me.

Yeah, thank you for the work you do with the world, James. I mean, you were putting like you are working with the highest performers in the world and you are giving all this advice and all this wisdom away through your podcast and through your content and through your books. And like, just thank you for what you're doing.

No such a joy. And I'm going to make sure to put a link to your podcast in the show notes as well so people can go across and check out the incredible humans that you're interviewing, but a huge thanks, Jim, and look forward to chatting again soon.

Likewise, James. Thanks.

Thank you.