My Freedom Formula: Income Divided by Stress with Greg Cassar
In this episode of Exit the Matrix Stories of Success, host Jane Slack‑Smith interviews entrepreneur and investor Greg Cassar. Greg shares his "Freedom Formula" – coolness factor = income ÷ stress – and explains how he optimises for freedom by combining multiple income streams (cash‑flow businesses and a "golden goose" of net‑worth assets). He outlines his investment thesis, focusing on three macro‑categories: AI, blockchain/Bitcoin, and hard assets (gold, silver) as hedges against government debt and inflation. The conversation moves into the holistic approach of The Collective, a mastermind that blends marketing, sales, mindset, emotional intelligence, and bio‑hacking. Greg describes practical tools he uses, such as AI‑driven "vibe coding" and Whisperflow, which have allowed him to replace parts of his team and accelerate SaaS product creation. He discusses limiting beliefs, imposter syndrome, resilience, and the importance of a bias toward action and speed. Daily habits, morning routines, lifestyle design (surfing, e‑biking, music), and health optimisation (resveratrol, NMN, DHEA, metformin, creatine, hormone testing) are also covered. The interview concludes with a call to action for listeners to join the Exit the Matrix community and apply the coolness formula to reduce stress while increasing income.
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Welcome to Exit the Matrix Stories of Success with your host Jane Slack-Smith, where we celebrate the incredible journeys of individuals who've transcended their limitations and achieved extraordinary success.
Hello, it's Jane Slack-Smith here, and welcome back to the Exit the Matrix— what were you going to call this? writing experiment with me. So this is this unique way of me writing a book and actually tapping into thought leaders on how do you create a life of abundance in all aspects of your life. And at one time in the future, I might even end up writing the book, who knows. But my amazing guest today is Greg Kasser. Hey Greg, how you going?
Hi Jane, very good. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
Well, I have to say, Greg, I've got you in the hot seat. We have been in an elite marketing group together and crossed paths many a time, and every time I talk to you, we jump into something like biohacking health trips or AI vibe coding or business or, you know, all of these different areas. And it strikes me that you as a self-made millionaire, you who have helped over 300 companies become very successful, someone who apparently has got businesses that are doing up to $2 million a month revenue, you've got a finger in everything. So creating a life of abundance It's not just about money. And what I love about the collective and what you bring to your clients is that you look at the whole holistic picture of what it is to live an abundant life. So thank you so very much for joining us today.
Absolutely. It's great to be here. Yeah, hopefully I can live up to— that was an excellent introduction.
Well, I think, you know, this is the interesting thing. I, I, I, this time last year, it really struck me it was time to write the next book. And the people that I'd been working with, you know, had really— I was kind of getting a feel for where they are. There was a lot of kind of like, is it possible to create a life of abundance? This kind of dream life that we start with this innocent kind of, I get a job, I, you know, build up some wealth, I might have a business, I get married, I get a house, I get a family, and, you know, I'm working, working, working. And for most people, you know, it's like the working for 40 years, 40 hours a week to then retire on 40% of what they had. And that's not an abundant life. And what I really wanted to explore in this book was, well, what is it to have a truly abundant life and to live from your heart's desire? You know, actually claim what you want. And I know that you work with, you know, essentially very successful business owners and helping them to become high net worth individuals and having a life of freedom. So I just want to ask you straight off the bat, a life of abundance, what does that mean to you?
I think ultimately, like, if you look at me, I'm optimizing for freedom. So at times I could have chosen decisions that would have made me more money, but if they didn't have a good coolness factor, then it wasn't a win for me. So coolness factor I look at is income divided by stress. So if income goes up, that's more coolness. If stress goes down, that's more coolness. So trying to really optimize for freedom and I found kind of like 2 main parts to it. One, like definitely you need to know where you're going and what you want. Like what does your fun week look like? What is your fun month? What does your fun life look like so that you've got a direction? But then I found you ultimately need like multiple income streams. So you need cash flow and then you also need to build a big golden goose. So build net worth. And because I meet like a lot of business owners that have, they might have good cash flow, but then they've never focused on how do I build a big golden goose that then spits out eggs in retirement or any of that kind of thing. So, and at times in my life I've been stressed because I didn't have good cash flow or other times in my life I've been stressed because I didn't have big golden goose, you know, like I wasn't building a big nest egg. So I think getting both of those 2 things happening so that then can make good choices in life and ultimately more fun, less work. But yeah, that's kind of how I'm optimizing at the moment, freedom.
So what I'm hearing is that there is a freedom formula and it's really the coolness formula, which is coolness factor divided by stress, which I love. But so does it all come down to money then? Like if you lead with that, is money the key to freedom?
I think time and choice, like, you know, freedom to hang out with who you want, freedom to work with who you want, freedom to live where you want. Like, one of the decisions I made a couple of years ago, like 8, 10 years ago, was just to move to tropical paradise. I live near Byron and to surf every day and that kind of thing. So that's kind of like, you know, designing dream life. But if you don't, so money's not everything, but if you don't have money, then things get stressful. So ideally you want to have an abundance of where your income exceeds your expenses. You know what I mean? That kind of thing. You've then got enough money to put away and then ultimately get— so if you think back to Cashflow Quadrant, and I know you would know, but not a lot of people would, Robert Kiyosaki, he teaches that you can get wealthy any number of 4 ways. He says you can be an employee, you can be self-employed, you can be a business owner, and you can be an investor. But the, and you can be an employee who's also an investor, self-employed who's also an investor, business owner who's also an investor. And if you look at every billionaire in the world, they're business owners who are investors. And that really just seems to be the fastest unlock as far as creating the most money and keeping the most money and getting it growing for you. Because if you don't have enough money, then yeah, just life is stressful. So that's why I do optimize for that.
It's interesting. My husband's just gone over to a 40-year reunion And our 18-year-old son said, you know, were there a lot of successful people there? And he said, there was only 2 people retired and one of them was an employee. And, you know, he had been an employee, has a nice house in the Northern Beaches in Sydney, you know, is now, kids are left home and now optimized for travel. But he had a very good income that he invested wisely.
Mm-hmm.
And I think there is often a, an attitude that unless you're self-employed or unless you have your own business, you can't make money. But as you said, Robert Kiyosaki said, you can be an employee, but it's the golden goose that you also need that is then optimized for retirement.
Agreed. Yeah. And it's not, it's a long game as well, not just playing it short. Everyone wants to get rich right now. But if I look at it, I was sort of like, to know what not to do is not to know. So I knew all along I needed to be investing, but I was so focused on the business and then I'd make a win and then I'd reinvest money back in the business and sometimes I'd win and sometimes I'd lose, but I wasn't really smart enough to be pulling money out of the business all along, feeding my superannuation or feeding my personal investments. But really I woke up to that in the last 10 years and that's, you know, when I was able to turn a small amount of money into a large amount of money. And that came down to ideally in some ways like thinking about how Wayne, the Wayne Gretzky concept. So Wayne Gretzky is a famous, know, Jane, but for a lot of people, they may not. Famous ice hockey player. And he was— there's a famous interview of like, hey Wayne, why are you the best? And he was like, it's easy because everyone skates to where the puck is, but I skate to where the puck is going. And so with investing, that's how I've done really, really well at it over the years was just like, well, okay, where are we now? And is the world going more digital or less digital? You know, it's going more digital. So I'll focus in that area and then within that, what are the big categories of investments? And this is not, you know, financial advice, just sharing what I've been learning. But so then like AI is just like a huge area and it's, people think there's like an AI bubble, but it's really, it's just going to, the world is changing that way, you know. So I figure out, hey, what are the big categories? So AI is one, then like Bitcoin and blockchain, the world is going more and more on blockchain. So that's kind of, that's another one. And then there's a third one which is called hard assets. So this is storing wealth with resources. So things like Bitcoin, things like gold, things like silver. And the reason why this is important is because if you look at every government around the world since 1971, they've been clocking up debt. Basically, they've been spending more than they're earning. And so what's happening is they're— if you— everyone you talk to says, hey, the cost of living is rising and rising, and it's caused by their governments because their governments are effectively printing more money and giving you less purchasing power. And so as investors, we know that if we buy scarce resources like gold or Bitcoin, then that's kind of a hedge against that. Yeah. So I've done well by just like knowing where the world was going and then within those categories, then picking the winners because kind of like winners take most and then using business. I used to think about business, hey, this is how I'm going to get wealthy. But now I use business to fund lifestyle and I use business to fund investing. And like, yes, I did do well out of business, but I've done better out of investing because it's just a faster horse to get your money growing for you.
Yeah, I love that. I, you know, I remember when as an employee over 20 years ago before I started my companies, I always used to buy every year the BRW Top 100, you know, and I used to look at this rich list and, you know, being a poor country kid, from a farm, you know, where my father was a farm laborer and me and mum was a nurse kind of thing. It didn't seem possible. I didn't have any role models around wealth. But what struck me was although there were some people who made their money in property or some people who made their money in business, they all held their money in property or grew it in property. And that for me was kind of like a there's got to be something to this. If the rich do this, like, I've got to be looking at that. And I think, you know, at the age of 28, sitting under a tree in New Zealand, waiting for a friend, reading Rich Dad Poor Dad, and they said, do you work for your money or does your money work for you?
Yeah.
At that point, I was like, geez, I make money and then I spend it. And I kid myself putting 10% in savings as I'm going to get somewhere. And we all know savings accounts with cash go nowhere. And it, it really gave me, I guess, that Rich Dad Poor Dad, that you had to do something. There was action to be taken because as you said, everyone wants to get rich, but you know, it's like saying everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one wants to die. We don't want to work, you know, to get rich. We're like, I want to be rich and that'd be great. So, you know, with your work that you do in the collective with, you know, your mentoring clients, I know that you have a holistic You know, method. Take us through that because I think, you know, in this book writing kind of investigation, you know, yes, money creates the freedom and the choices, but there's other aspects that are really important. You need to have that balance and I'm really interested in hearing how you teach that balance to people to have a well-rounded life.
Yeah, well, with The Collective, it started as a marketing mastermind because that was what people knew me as, I ran a marketing agency and I was good at marketing and sort of technology. And then I realized, hang on, well, marketing, if they get leads, but then they can't sell, that's no good. So then I really got better at selling and then I started teaching selling. And then I realized, well, hang on a second, sometimes they're just sabotaging the deals themselves. So if they didn't have the right mindset, then yeah, they wouldn't create the abundance. And then I realized, hang on a second, if they can't control their emotions, like I'd love to say, hey Jane, everything's always gonna go great for you and I. in life. But, you know, as you know, like, even though we do a whole bunch to engineer things our way, sometimes there's, there's ups and downs, you know. So being able to regulate that emotion, so emotional intelligence was kind of like another thing. And then recently I turned, I turned 50 and, but, uh, it kind of woke me up, you know, on the health side. About 8, 10 years ago, I really, really woke up. I was, I grew up in a Maltese family and He's like, here, eat this bread, eat this pasta, you know, like, and, but I didn't even realize that I wasn't being healthy and I was just becoming a more portly gentleman, if we could say, Jane. And so then I started to learn all about that. And then so the biohacking and health side is another thing. So how can we slow down the way that our cells age? How can we, yeah, have a better healthspan and lifespan? And then also on top of that, just business. And investing and lifestyle design. So that's kind of like a whole holistic approach and it's really worked. Like people who've stuck at it have created some pretty cool lives. So it's been, yeah, very rewarding and massive, like a trail of change behind me as I know you do with yours as well.
It's how you kind of learn, right? You're putting your learning in and not being stifled by the constraint of you bought a sales course or sales mentoring. By the way, I'm gonna teach you how to now use You know, some buying hacking because I've learned it. I want to go back to emotional intelligence. How do you teach emotional intelligence? How do you help people recognize that their emotions might be controlling their outcomes and they're creating that? Like, how do you do that in a way that's not like, you know, get over yourself?
Yeah, sometimes we have literally had those Get over yourself. Yeah. Conversations like, and, but that's what I say. You don't need your coach to be your best friend. You need a coach that really can identify and say, hey, are you aware of this? One of the things like every mastermind, we make sure we do something on millionaire mindset and emotional intelligence because I think it's a journey. It's not like, hey, yes, I've got my millionaire mindset and I've got my emotional intelligence under control. So it's kind of like just keep learning and that keep, you know, keep going as a journey. Uh, that's kind of like, uh, the way that we approach it. But one of the things that I've found between the most successful people and the least successful people with emotional intelligence is regulation. So being able to identify and catch themselves when things are going wrong, and then like, how would a successful person behave? Because more successful people are smooth with their emotions as a general rule, and least successful people, they'll be like flying off the handle and then your best friend and then you know, like this kind of thing. So success leaves clues, but really being able to control your emotions, especially for investors, like at this point in time, the market is down across a whole bunch of things. But if you've got conviction and you know where you're going, then it doesn't really matter. It's a short-term thing. So yeah, emotional intelligence, it's a, it's a journey, not a, you know, yes, I've learned that.
It's interesting that you you know, you see the needs of your clients and then you cater to help them. Because I had a similar situation where I had a property investing client, property education client, and she's like, I can't believe it again. The real estate agent's taken advantage of me. You know, the buyer's agent when I bought took advantage of me. The lawyers, you know, screwed me over. I'm like, maybe it's not them.
Yeah.
How about we talk about what's the pattern that allows this to happen? And it's a confronting talk sometimes when you're having— you're calling someone out on something or putting a mirror up and letting them see the beliefs that are actually ruling and how their emotions and their thoughts are triggered by these deep-seated beliefs. And, you know, I'm just— Yeah, well, I'm just— I'm interested in exploring this a bit further with you because as people get wealthier, I guess there's a lot of ego and You know, there's the face they give the world. Is it harder for you working with, you know, people who have this very high net worth or very successful business people in actually accepting that, you know, they may not be perfect?
No, I think I've got a good relationship, you know, over time. One of the things I've just focused on with myself and also with them is that catching it. So the ants, annoying negative thoughts, we all have that, like whether it's annoying negative thoughts or annoying negative emotion, and then catching that and then like basically treating it, hey, is this helping me or is it hurting me? And if it's not helping me, then what can I replace it with? Empowerment. We all have downtimes, but it's just like, okay, well, that's not going to do anything. So, and then another one is like really action. So problem solution progression. So if you've got a problem, you can kind of stress about it as much as you like, but it's actually not gonna help. So then it's like, what, what's the next step that I'm gonna take to move it forward? At times in my life, I've been really, really stressed. And if I have, what I'll do is I'll get a blank sheet of paper and I'll draw a line down the middle. And on one side, I'll write problems. And then on the next side, I'll write solution and next steps. So I won't get into solution mode. I'll just like, hey, what are all the things that are in my subconscious brain that are causing me stress? Let's get them down. And then it's like, okay, well, even if I don't know the exact answer to all of them, what am I going to do to move that forward? What am I going to do to move that forward? And then say you put that in your safe or whatever and you come back to it a month later, your subconscious brain like works like a heat-seeking missile. So you actually start to move those things forward and you'll look at, oh, I'm not worried about that anymore. I'm not worried about that anymore. So I'm a big believer in a bias towards action rather than, you know, focusing. I meet a lot of people who focus a lot on the past. So they're past-based rather than in the now or future-based. And very, very little good comes from stewing about what's happened in the past. I think we wanna take the learnings on from that, but like, okay, what can I learn from that? How can I now live the now and the future better, you know, based off it? But certainly not, yeah, dwelling on it too much.
It's interesting you, you pull up the past and the subconscious and, and the perceptions of the stories that we say that happened.
Yeah.
That, you know, you talk to other people and their recollection of an event is completely different. And, you know, it, it became very obvious to me. I, as an explosives engineer, I was sent to America to learn fatality investigation at one stage for the company I was working with. And I was working with these, uh, people who taught the FBI and the police, etc. But the interview technique they taught us was to go back like a day before the event and take the person through it and bring them up to the event because all they concentrate is on like the one bad thing.
Oh.
And then do a 10,000-foot view and say, what do you see? And it is amazing that, you know, like, and even police know this. Like, if you tell someone, if they are interviewing someone, they say, tell us what happened. If they keep the same story, they know they're lying because they've rehearsed it because your brain changes based on your retelling and your experience. experience of seeing more to it. And what that really taught me at the time was that— and I think there's someone who's just releasing a book called Your Brain's a Big Fat Liar.
Right.
And essentially, your memories of things or what you've held on to often aren't realistic or aren't what really happened. It's what you made them be. And then that's clouding your judgment for the future. So I love the fact that you've got this kind of, you know, you don't need to work out the answer to the problem. It's just what's the next obvious step? What can you do that's kind of, you know, I've been reading the Kabbalah or learning a bit about the Kabbalah recently. And they have this beautiful phrase that's pause, what a gift in times of challenge. And it's like, if you're in, if you're feeling that tension or that emotional pull or that chaos, it's like pause, where's the gift? And often it's difficult during hard times, but I think that regulation and that positive action that you're saying going forward is, is the key that I'm seeing for really successful people. They're aware in the moment that something happens, they stop, they reorientate for the successful outcome, and then they take action towards it.
And I think that a bias towards action and a bias towards speed— success definitely follows speed. And I think success follows action more than it does intellect. It's great if you've got both intellect and action, but that's why sometimes you'll see someone who was really, really intelligent at school, but maybe they didn't become an amazing success in life, you know, monetarily or whatever, often because they've just analyzed things too much and they never actually got around to, you know, taking action. I think another key component is resilience. as well. Like if I look at, you know, people look at me now and say, oh, it's easy for you because of you've got money or you've got, you know, whatever you build reputation and stuff. But if I look at the amount of things that have gone wrong over the years and I've, my, like one of my best strengths was really just, hey, just pick myself up, dust myself off. What can I learn from that? How are we gonna change? And then just keep moving forward. And one of the best words I learned in business was next because like I'd love to say that everything that I've done always worked out, but it didn't, you know, like we've done a heap of failed businesses over time, like as far as like not big businesses, but we tried that and didn't really get product market fit or, and the way I just look at it is you do marketing, you put messages out into the marketplace, they either respond or they don't. And if it doesn't work, then next. And yeah, just keep, just keep going, not quitting because something didn't work.
No, I haven't brought this up in previous conversations. I've had 37 of them, But you said something twice that really is leading me to this question. You said essentially that the momentum and doing things quickly, you know, the action, et cetera.
Yes.
And then you're talking about people having an experience of success where they may not have, they've been stagnant. And I think artificial intelligence, which, you know, you've just run an entire summit, unfortunately I missed due to my father's illness, but AI, in my experience of working with my coaching clients, is that there's a moment where there's a condition or a limitation or I can't do this or I've got an idea and I don't know and I'm, you know, there might be a messy to magic AI tool or something that gives them some clarity or insight, you know, board of directors or board of advisors that gives them some clarity. AI, I think, collapses time and speeds things up so much. I'm so interested in your thoughts on that. I mean, you've run multiple businesses and very successful businesses. Like, how do you see AI as being almost a solution architect for some of these things?
Yeah, I think you and I have a 100% consistent approach in this, in that it effectively gives you leverage. You can achieve a whole bunch more in a fraction of the time. What I am seeing is that large teams over time don't need to stay large teams once you, you and I both do, like, you know, vibe coding, or whether you're working with other AI tools that are giving leverage. Because unfortunately, like, I've had to sack 5 people in the last month and feel horrible about it, and they got replaced by AI tools in most cases. Yeah. So whether it was AI tools that were vibe coded or just other, you know, just other people who don't know that, what's vibe coding? But vibe coding is, and Jane's more of an expert at this than me, but effectively where traditional web development or any app kind of app development or anything like that took a long time and you needed a team of developers and that now you can effectively talk to a specific application that does vibe coding and it'll go and create that application for you. And then you tell it what you want to change and it'll do rounds of feedback and rounds of change and then make it very easy for you to publish applications without teams of, of developers. And it allows, like, I, I run 2 full-time teams of developers, like, in our travel companies. And with vibe coding, what we've sort of realized in recent months is we can move at roughly 50 times the speed Maybe, maybe it's not 50, maybe it's 100, but maybe it's 20. So it's somewhere in there, but it's ridiculously much faster. And that's one of the reasons why some of the people got put off. Yeah, it was because of that. Another tool that resulted in people getting put off was Whisperflow. So that was like I had an executive assistant. Whisperflow, that for those of you who don't know, it's like $10 a month, $12 a month, something like that. And you install it on your computer and then you just hold down the function key and you talk to it and then it types for you. But it's smart enough to understand difference in meaning. So if I said, hey, Jane, can you meet at 4 o'clock on Thursday? No, let's make it 5. It'll write, it'll type, hey, Jane, can we meet Thursday at 5? You know, that kind of thing. And so I had an executive assistant and she used to manage my inbox and stuff. But then after a while I said, look, I think you're great, but there's no work anymore because when I get my inbox goes up, I just sort of talk my way through it very, very fast and whiz through it. So it was like another tool. So I definitely am seeing large teams are becoming smaller teams over time and just specialist or highly skilled, yeah, people within them. It's sad but true.
Well, the kind of thing that we hear is AI will not replace you, but someone who knows how to use AI probably will. But what I'm hearing from you, AI is replacing some of your team. And I think that's a lot of the fear that people have also around artificial intelligence. And let's face it, we've had it in our lives since Siri turned up over 10 years ago. But, you know, is there a, I guess, a comment that you would have to those that are fearful of AI and how they can apply it?
Yeah, well, you know, all the 5 people that I had to put off and like I said, it felt horrible and I didn't want to do that. It was just necessity, all 5 of them. I said, learn the tools that replaced you.
Yeah.
Like, yeah. And I said, these are the— and I, every one of them, I gave them, this is a specific skill set. And I said, most people won't do, you know, like what you give them information and they may do it or they may not. And I said, but if, if the world is going this way, you can either cry about it and complain about it, or you can jump on that bandwagon. I got this, there's this concept of you can lean into things or you can lean out. So lean out is saying, hey, no, that's not for me. I've seen that like with Bitcoin a lot. Oh no, I'm a bricks and mortar guy or girl, you know what I mean? I'm not into this digital stuff. It's like, okay, well, but the world is heading that way. So that's like same with AI. You can either, like, I think you gotta lean into it and embrace it, learn it, because then you can be on the right side of history rather than the wrong side of history. And unfortunately, a lot of people are gonna be on the wrong side of history just by, they won't learn it, they won't embrace it, they'll just complain about it.
You know, it surprises me. People think I'm intelligent, but I'm not that intelligent. I just like learning things.
Yeah.
So one of the things I have every morning, I have, you know, 2 or 3 little tasks that I've set up in AI, which might be things of like, give me a presidential memo every morning of the top news that was relating to property investing or mindset or neuroscience or AI in, you know, wealth creation or whatever. And I get 4 or 5 like little emails with the links to them. And so I read them, takes me 15 minutes, and then someone will say something in the day, I'm like, oh, isn't it interesting with the report that came out yesterday on, you know, the longevity effects of, you know, the heart-brain coherence, they found 1,400 different neurotransmitters are activated when you think either positive or negative, and it stays in your bloodstream for 6 hours, and it's going to affect your health. Isn't that amazing? And they're like, wow, aren't you intelligent? I'm like, oh no, I just read it this morning. Like, I'm not an expert on this. Like, I have to confess regularly. But it allows you to, you know, if someone is an employee and, you know, they're in market research or they're in, you know, some type of role, being able to be ahead of the game and looking at what's happening in their markets very quickly is going to elevate their, them in the company they're in because they're the go-to person with the information and all they need to do is know how to get the information really.
And I think you do that better than most. Like before the call, we were looking at like all the different things you've built. You basically, if you have to do something multiple times, you'll build a tool for it and it's very, very easy.
It's, it's, there's a tool.
Yeah. And it's very, very easy to build a tool now with, with these things with, yeah, vibe coding or other AI agents.
And you know what, it's even like, I would say I'm inherently lazy in the kind of mechanics of life. Like, and I'm like, if I can actually just find an easier way to do it. I keep forgetting what TV show and episode we're up to and what channel we're on. I'm like, well, I'll create an app for that. So we have a TV in-night across all of my family members so that you know, every household knows they can recommend to each other, but we all know where we're up to. And even date night movies, my husband and I put down on our Friday night movie app thing because you always see something and then you forget it. And I'm like, no, not good enough. I can make an app for that. And I think that's where we are, that speed.
Yeah.
And that's what I love seeing with my clients. I imagine you as well, is that what seemed to be impossible, it'll cost $80,000 to create this app, They can do in 20 minutes 80% of it, and then you know fix it up. And and that kind of aha moment where it's just like oh my gosh, you know if if I can do this, and this is how I use AI. If I can do this, what else is possible in my life? How can I do things that I didn't think were possible physically or mentally or in relationships? Because I think it's an access tool to kind of create these new neuro. connections that allow us to go, well, if that wasn't that hard and I always thought it was, what's something else that I think is in the way of my— Hi, it's Jane here and I'm just breaking in for a moment. Now, if you're enjoying this conversation, and why wouldn't you, it's amazing, you are going to love the Exit the Matrix community. Now, this is where all the thought leaders I've interviewed come together. There's tools, AI courses, teachings, Things that go along to support your journey as you exit the matrix. Just go to exitthematrix.today/ETMwithme. Right, back to the conversation.
Success.
Yeah.
And on that, I think it's a very special point in time. You and I were talking before the call of like, if you go back a year, year and a half, this was vibe coding and this kind of thing was very early and it was very clunky and it didn't work. But really in the last 3 to 6 months, It's just very, very good now and you can think something up and speak it or type it in and it can create it for you and then you just give it a few rounds of feedback and you have an app. But that wasn't there before. So this is an incredible opportunity, like when Google Ads came out, like when Facebook Ads came out, like TikTok Shop, like Amazon. It's that level of opportunity. If you ever wanted to create your own software as a service business or if you wanted Another way you can do it is create a software as a service that is like a lead generator. Say, for example, you do financial services, you could create a tool that is free for people to figure out, you know, about their mortgage or, you know, that kind of thing. So you can use it as a lead generator or within your company. How can you just make the whole company more efficient by, we wish we always had this, let's just create it now. So, you know, I'm doing that with project management tools. Like, for example, I'm working on a vibe coding thing that I'm building right now. We're taking monday.com that costs our company $500 a month. So I'm just vibe coding it and then gonna replace it. It's not much, but it gets rid of $500 a month out of the, you know, out of the company and I can create it in, you know, a day or something to that effect.
So, and I, and I think that, I mean, for me, one of my clients had a pain point that was, she has like 150 50 performers every weekend running birthday parties for kids. And there was a pain point around the fact that it takes 5 hours a week for one of her invoicing people to fix up the mistakes because they're not getting their travel allowance between the distance calculated correctly. I'm like, we can create an app for that. And we created it. And she was like, oh, we could also add in like the Swifty party extras and the slime party extras and the— Science Party Extras. And we created an invoicing app for her that saved that person 5 hours, got them 5 hours back, had less people pissed off every week because their invoice wasn't right. And she had been quoted, I think, over like $10,500 or something for something like it. And really, you know, we created 80% of it in half an hour, and then it was, oh, what can we add to this? And so I think if people can think of a little pain point that they have, or even something that just makes their life a little bit easier. Like, I created one that you can put in your kid's name, what they like, and it creates a story for them. It's a choose your own adventure. Would you like to do this or this? And it's, you know, sitting at the end of the night, they've got a little book, and you get to put a book in collection that the kids have created over time. So I think it's, you know, people are looking at AI in, you know, how long do I cook a chicken for? and using ChatGPT. But there's these kind of little things that create so much fun. And when we're talking about abundance and a life of freedom, if there's things that are taking time or you don't like doing, then, or they create these niggles, I see AI just as that opportunity to get that out of the way so you can get on with life.
Agreed. And I think it also represents another income stream potentially as well. I always like to have a multi-leg stool so that if you've only got one income stream and it gets taken away, then you're really in a bad situation. Say if you've got 3 income streams, if one gets taken away, it's not great, but you're still okay, that kind of thing. And there's basically like multiple types of businesses. You could have a services business, you could have an info business, you could have an e-commerce business, or you could have a SaaS business, software as a service. And like from a business model freedom scale, software as a service ultimately is the best business because it has the most leverage. So you might have a leverage of labor, you know, like people's labor as you're building it. It's got a leverage of code. It's got a leverage of internet. And over time, it needs less and less, you know, work. It might just have a little bit of support and things. But I really found that software as a service is the ultimate business model. So now it's so, so easy to do.
With the niches that you're in and you've looked at, if you were going to, if someone was like, okay, I want to have a little hustle and this whole vibe coding or AI sounds like it's an easy thing and there's SaaS, where would you direct people to where the biggest problems are that people need solving that they could sell something to?
I think that's the hardest bit. Like, I don't believe that the Finding, sorry, the building the app is the hardest bit anymore. It's really now about nailing that message to market match and finding a big problem. So one of it's just being problem aware. So listening as people are talking and always seeing online, people saying, I wish this did this. I see others who are SaaS developers, they're crawling like Reddit forums and things like that within particular niches. Yeah. You can also use ChatGPT to help you, you know, if you use it in thinking mode, or it could be any other large language model, ask it to say, I'm in the horse riding niche. Can you please help me with micro SaaS ideas? And then once it comes up with a whole bunch of ideas, then getting it to help you to evaluate them to see whether, because it's not about whether or not you can build it. That's not really the hard bit. It's then about, can you get customers and can you make it profitable and acquire customers at scale? You know, that kind of thing. So, which can, and one of the things that does work in that space is like, if it's got enough money in it, being able to then partner with influencers because often people have built a large channel. So say, for example, you might have a lady who's got a big audience in horse riding, but she might not have a product. But then if this is, yeah, a solution for a problem that they have, then yeah, partnering in like an affiliate commission can work well.
Okay. So let's go back to the collective. You've got a collective of very clever people, mainly business people. What do you find? One of the things in this kind of exploration of abundance that I've looked into is that there's often something that holds people back.
Yes.
And, you know, or a story or a belief or conditional limit. What have you found have been like Is there like a— everyone's individual, or have you found that there's some common themes with the people that you've worked with that is something that they just have to get over or break through or be aware of?
There's common themes, but I've— if I think about it, it really comes down to the individual, and I'll try and identify what they are. So for example, one guy that I was working with, every idea that was suggested to him, his first thing was like straight away why it couldn't happen. You know, like sort of thing. So I was like, hey, do you— and then I was just, you know, that being aware. So I was just like, hey, do you know, have you noticed that every time anything comes up, you're straight away going to that? And he's like, no, I didn't even know. And then once he knew that, and then I plugged him into Tony Robbins and other things, just completely, yeah, just completely changed his life. Other— for other people, you mentioned it before, like limiting beliefs. If they don't believe that they can do it, you know, then they, then they won't be able to do it. And then, but I think with masterminds, it basically teaches you to think bigger thoughts and dream bigger dreams. And it changes your beliefs as well because if you, if you say like Jane, you might be in the group and then say, well, that Greg guy is no smarter than me and look what he did. You know, he's like, why couldn't I? You know, so it kind of changes your belief over time. So that's why I like to compress time and use shortcuts like that. So I've always been in masterminds because It just allows you to learn so much faster. Uh, like even right now I'm learning, we were talking about vibe coding before the call, you know, I've been learning it from a guy who's, he's only a couple of months in front of me of what he's doing, but then that's just allowing me to speed up and then I'm teaching it in the masterminders and I know, I know, I know you are as well.
So, um, I think that, I think the importance that I've found of masterminds and I've, I've had a coach for over 25 years, you know, in different coaches as I had different interests. And I know that you, um, you also, you know, have worked with some incredible masterminds. As much as I love the guru, I love the people in the group.
Yes.
But as you said, you know, going on a retreat or, or being in a mastermind situation and listening to others who you might think are way ahead of you and they're being so vulnerable in saying, I can't make cash flow this month, or, you know, I'm having personal issues with my teenage daughter or whatever. It gives you that humanity hit that lets you know that everyone's kind of got their own stuff that they're dealing with.
Yeah. And also I think with masterminds, you come away with energy. Like, so I think sometimes life can get you down. So if you've got attending a mastermind quarterly or something, Just gives you a fresh bunch of ideas or energy. I find I go into a mastermind with like one set of ideas, but sometimes I'll slightly pivot out of it because there's a smarter way or a faster way. And yeah, just coming out with more fuel from hanging out with positive, like-minded people. There's too many negative pullers, especially like in Australia. They don't really wanna see you succeed. They want you to stay at the same level as them so that they feel comfortable. But that's why I think, like, upgrading your peer group is such a good thing too.
It's interesting. I was talking to one of my coaches I'm working with at the moment, and, uh, you know, you try to get down to the absolute basic thing that's holding you back. And I was struggling with whatever it was— could be anything— whatever it was, because the, the thing that we got down to was there was fear. And it was like, what's this fear about? And I really tried to understand what the fear was about whatever the action I had to take or whatever the the issue was. And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm fearful that I'm going to be nothing, that, you know, I'm not relevant, I, you know, I'm not making contribution, I'm not assisting people. And he had this beautiful, um, kind of repurpose of that for me. And he said, isn't it interesting that, you know, the, the Buddhist— or essentially, oh no, not the Taoist, um, Tao religion essentially say when you're nothing, you've really— you've reached enlightenment. So your biggest fear about you trying to, you know, create all of these things is that you'll be nothing. But the actual sense of being nothing is what most people try to work for who are enlightened. And, you know, it's just, it's interesting getting different perspectives. And that's, I guess, one of the things that I've found working with coaches over the years is that, you know, you have this duality of it's right or it's wrong, where there is this non-duality when you actually look at everything and you go, well, you can have both of these things and they mean nothing. It's okay for me to be fearful and have imposter syndrome and be able to make a contribution and change people's lives. And I think, you know, the people that I've worked with a lot, a very common theme, and I'm interested in your thoughts on this, is imposter syndrome. It is that they're gonna find out that I'm like, you know, it's all smoke and mirrors. You know, is, is that something that you come across with the people that you work with?
I definitely have seen that. And there's that whole, do you fake it? Until you make it. But my original coach, Mel Emery, he used to say basically you just put a stake in the ground and you declare yourself this positioning or this branding, you know, like I'm Australia's leading authority on email direct response marketing or whatever it is. And then you just scramble like crazy to deliver on that. So that was kind of like a big, you know, unlock for me. And Andrew Grant, who was another early coach of mine, he sort of taught me about like, if you're constantly, um, like worried about what other people are gonna think and stuff, you're inwardly focused and that doesn't really help anyone. But whereas if what you're doing, so say for example with selling, if what you're doing is gonna help people, then be outwardly focused and focused on helping them rather than, you know, focused on the inner work, the inner, inner dialogue. So, yeah, the way I look at it is if what I'm gonna do is help people, then Just go for it. And I learned over time that the amount of people that laughed at me along the way, or the amount of people that tried to pull me down or anything like that, I don't worry about the opinions of people who are not where I want to be.
Yeah.
So, yeah. So say, say, for example, we were going into corporate finance and you were really, really senior in corporate finance and you said, hey, Greg, you know, have you thought about this and that? Then I would take that on board. But if you didn't know anything about corporate finance, I'd be like, okay, cool. But Yeah, just moving on sort of thing. So does the person who's actually giving you the feedback, you know, yeah, have they achieved the result? I think it's been a good way to look at it.
You say that, I mean, for 10 years, every single month I ran a Q&A on property investing, renovation, finance, and I think I've answered every question and it's in propertychat.ai now. Every single answer is in there so people can get it, you know, free democratizing the education. But It used to, I think it would come up maybe once every 3 months. So, you know, I'd show people how to do the due diligence and the research-based information onto a suburb. And someone would say, but I was talking to a taxi driver about this and they said that you shouldn't invest in Williamstown. And I was like, when did taxi drivers become these experts? But it was like John and I who ran the business together, We would laugh about it because it would come up and go, but the taxi driver said.
Yes.
Are you really? Like, you paid for the education for people and you're taking advice from the taxi driver. Or my mum said, or my best friend, or, you know, for first-time buyers. And I, yeah, I think of that often because you're right. And it's one of the things that I'm conscious of in social media. is that people aren't really that interested in you and you think that, you know, you're gonna make this great big profound thing and you might go viral, people might comment or whatever. I mean, I use social media kind of as a way to have a journal that I can refer back to because I forget things all the time. But it is interesting that we do put so much importance on other people's opinions.
Yeah.
Whereas we're not self-referential. And when I think of the the big visions that people have in creating a life of abundance in all areas of their life and being true to themselves, the first real, I guess, defiance is not being true to themselves and letting other people dictate their lives.
And that's just— Yeah, you'll never achieve the abundance that way. Hey, so yeah.
Now biohacking.
Yes.
I remember you were doing a presentation. I don't know, I think it was at the Elite Marketing Group. And, um, I— you're the only person I had ever heard that was also on resveratrol.
Resveratrol.
Yeah, I can never say it. And, um, but you gave us an example. You gave it to your dog.
Yes.
Just remind me that, because I remember going home going, we need to be giving this to our dog.
Yeah. So we've got an old dog, uh, Bruce. He's 13 or 14. He's a Border Collie. And so, uh, resveratrol and another one, NMN, which is Yeah, it slows down the way your cells age. It basically helps your cells to repair. So by giving that to the dog, so his hair had gone all gray and then it was like a wire brush. And then I was taking it myself and I'd been learning about it for, for years. And then I was like, well, hang on, we've got nothing to lose if we don't help him. He's not gonna be in a good position. So then when we started giving it to him, down the back of his spine went all black and went all soft, and then it went down his whole body. After that, and he's still black and soft. He's a little bit stiff in his joints when he, when he moves and stuff because he's that old. But, uh, yeah, he— it's kept him alive. And when I— when we went away and then the kids were looking after the dog and I got back and all down his spine was gray again, and I was like, he didn't get his medicine. They're like, oh, we couldn't find it. And I showed him where it was. It was in the fridge. But I was like, yeah, because I could see it. And then when he got it back, yeah. So it was very, very visible. Because dogs' aging process is quicker than ours. So it's, yeah, it really works even better with animals than it does with ourselves.
I love that. Well, you know, I've kept on it ever since, the NMN, resveratrol, and GABA for the—
All right. Gotcha. And another real big optimization has been learning about hormones. So whether it's for guys or for girls, like I coach both, we in the collective, we have a proactive health doctor that we work with. And then so she does people's full bloods, like full blood screens, and then in particular, like, so testosterone levels, estrogen levels, that kind of thing. Because like, for example, with testosterone, if your levels are low, you can just feel bad and not be feeling good and not have enough energy. Uh, so just increasing testosterone. Yeah, so there's multiple ways of doing that, but Um, yeah, more muscle mass, less fat, just everything working better. So there's a supplement you can get from a doctor called DHEA, and it's a precursor to testosterone, and it's good, great for men, and it's great for women, especially like in your 40s, 50s, 60s, that kind of thing where these levels are dropping off. So I'm 50 and my testosterone levels are growing, going up rather than down, uh, which is, yeah, which is pretty, uh, amazing. And that's really just about because I do regular bloods, and then my doses weren't right. So because I do the regular bloods, I knew, hey, we now need to double that, you know, keep going.
So yeah, hormone optimization is medical advice here, but this is our own individual experience.
Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. But it's been a life changer for me.
So it's interesting you say that. And you know, there's a, there's a lot of misconceptions around testosterone for women, especially going through perimenopause, menopause. 45 to 55 or whatever. I'm 55 tomorrow. But, um, so, so I'm just a few years ahead of you. But it's interesting, um, the research in America and the UK have found that women need to go on to testosterone when they go on to HRT, or they need additional— you know, there's the changes in their hormones. And in Australia, I believe that there has to be like 10 years worth of evidence before the Surgeon General will approve it. And so for women to get testosterone in Australia, you have to say, I've got a sexual dysfunction. And so I was talking to my GP about this and I was going, okay, so all my friends overseas are on testosterone. It's changed their life. I want some, give it to me, give me the cream. And they're like, you have to tell me you've got a sexual dysfunction. I'm like, I've got a sexual dysfunction. And she said, what is it? I'm like—
You told me.
5, so I can choose one. Like, what would it be? And she's laughing and I'm laughing. She's like, I just have to write something down. I'm like, write whatever you want.
Uh-huh.
And I mean, it's interesting where, you know, in Australia, that kind of knowledge is being kept, you know, kept from people. And they're going through quite significant changes and they're going, I'm going mad. I've got cognitive decline. My brain's fuzzy. My joints hurt, whatever. And there is a simple solution, as you said. Yeah, strange times. But okay, biohacking. On your website collective.com.au, you say that there's 3, I think, specific, um, uh, supplements that billionaires take. Can you share those?
3 specific supplements? Well, we've talked about like, so yes, yeah. So NMN is a, is a big one. Uh, so that slows down the way your cells age and it, uh, helps with cell repair. So that would be like my number one. The DHEA, which increases the testosterone, it's great for men and women, but you need a doctor's prescription, you know, uh, for that one. A lot of people also like metformin, which is an— it's actually a diabetic drug, uh, but you see, again, you need a script for that. I'm not, I'm not using, uh, I'm not using that one, uh, personally, but a lot of— it's hard to get in Australia, but a lot of Americans use it. It's similar to the, um, NMN And changes the way your, changes the way your cells age. And then one which a lot of people don't really think about, a lot of muscle bros use it, is creatine. So creatine increases your brain function as well as increases muscle mass and makes you stronger. So that's kind of like, yes, a couple of really, really good ones. But I would say just if you're interested in this subject, and it makes sense to be because you want to have your healthspan good for as long as you can, as well as your lifespan. Just go deep down the rabbit hole. I learned a lot from just from YouTube and from reading books and the likes. Yeah, become knowledgeable. Everything starts with knowledge first, then action.
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, what's the point of having created maybe financial freedom if you're not healthy? It's one of those things where, you know, I think I've tried pretty much everything. Even I'm sleeping on an earth mat. I have aluminum free deodorant. And my dentist recently prescribed— not prescribed, suggested mouthwash that has peroxide in it. So you can get it, you know, in supermarkets, more expensive. But if you use a normal mouthwash, it actually gets rid of some of the good bacteria and the good that you need in your mouth. So, you know, peroxide doesn't. So there's all of these tiny little 1%ers that don't have to cost you—
Yeah.
NMN infusions and, you know, been down that path. But, um, I think, you know, it seems they can be really expensive things. And then there's something as simple as like a red light treatment for pain. You know, I think my chiropractor's, you know, cured me of pain from just using his red light. And I got an $80 one off eBay that, you know, just changes everything.
Wow.
So I think there's assumption often that things could be quite expensive for you to have. You know, it's okay for people to buy a hack if they're really rich. But the reality is there can be speed changes, even meditation and slow breathing. And, you know, we had the pleasure of interviewing the head of research from the HeartMath Institute 2 weeks ago.
Wow.
And he shared, you know, that the heart-brain coherence and how that can affect health. And so, you know, just the simple things that people can do— drink more water, you know, and sleep and eat good food— you know, it doesn't have to be complicated.
I think there's a saying of directionally correct as well, like living by that. So I might not be doing everything right, but as long as I'm moving in the right direction. And then also, it's not a diet, it's a lifestyle. So it started for me, it started with a mindset of just like, Hey, you know that overweight guy that didn't really understand this stuff? That's not me anymore. So changing my thoughts, my behaviors, my identity, and then stepping into that and just being directionally correct as long as I'm keeping trying to do the right things. And with the lifestyle thing, that's why I like, I try to surf every day or every day that the surf's good, I'll surf or I'll, before this call, I just was on the e-bike, you know, so I just took an hour out of my day and rode beside the beach, you know, on the, on the e-bike, that kind of thing. So what are fun things that you can do? A lot of people are loving pickleball at the moment, that kind of stuff so that you're getting exercise, but you're also having fun because then you're more likely to keep going at it rather than you went to the gym for 3 months and stopped, you know, or you did a diet for 3 months and stopped, you know, sort of thing. So lifestyle.
Well, I'm just gonna ask you a final question.
Okay.
And that really is around your daily habits for business success, health success, relationship success. I mean, I know you've got kids and a wife, etc., and a dog. You know, what are kind of the daily habits that are the absolute go-to that you put into your life?
I definitely try to, and not try to, I do, I preserve my mornings. So like other than if I have calls with Americans because it's their afternoon, which is my morning. So sometimes I can't avoid those, but I leave the mornings free. And then so in the mornings, I'll have like time for exercise, time for fun, whatever. And then time to build and make money, work on the business. And then in the afternoons, I'll have consulting. For example, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, I'll help people and I'll work in the business because, and that way I batch time as well. So for example, my consulting is all back to back in one little thing. And then like, so today's Thursday, Friday, my Thursdays and Fridays, I try and keep free. And my Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday mornings, I try and keep free. And then, yeah, so, but also I try to have, build an amazing life resume around my days and my weeks and that sort of thing. So what are cool, fun things that I'm gonna get in this week, in this month? What's cool, fun things that I'm gonna do this year? Because I'm also very aware that like between 50 and 70, 75, this is like golden time for me. So I really have to optimize that. I can't just wait until I retire and then hope that I can do all the things that I wanna do then. I gotta do them, gotta do them now.
So those big rocks, having those big visions of the things you want to achieve, you mentioned right at the beginning something like the dream week.
Yes.
So you actually visualize what that would look like.
Yeah. So I like, every morning I'll check the surf cam and I'll try, like I did that this morning and I went down there, it was rubbish. So I didn't end up going out. That's why I got on the bike. But yeah, so knowing fun things that I'm gonna do or like Thursday nights there's a guitar jam and I might go to that, you know, and stuff like that. So what are things that I'm gonna do that's gonna make my week better and more fun rather than just work, work, work? I see how many people do you meet and you talk about a party? Hey, what have you been up to? Nothing, just working. It's like, ah, that's not really a winning formula, you know, sort of thing. So gotta have that right balance.
Do you find that you have such a life of freedom and choice that you don't tell people that you do? You're like, I've been working pretty hard.
Yeah, sometimes you do have to have that But I, yeah, I like work hard but play smart as well. So yeah, a little bit of both. But, um, yeah, you do have to, it depends if you're around other like-minded entrepreneurs, like you have a great mindset. So I could just tell you, you know, hey, yeah, things are pretty cool, crushing it at the moment. And you'd be like, yeah, that's great. Good on you, Greg. But if it was someone, for example, family or whatever, then yeah, they'd, uh, a mate of mine, Mick Clancy, he said to me, he goes, You can't, you've spent all this money and time on your mindset. You can't expect when you're talking to other people that they've done the same thing. So you have to meet them where they are and just keep your mouth shut sometimes. I thought that was pretty good.
There's a young guy who goes around with the microphone and corners billionaires. Oh yeah. He always seems to ask at the end and it's been something that's come up in the last couple of conversations I've had, and it's this concept of, do you believe in God? Is there a higher source? Is there energy, spirit, etc.? Is it something that you'd be comfortable in commenting on, on that kind of a belief system in something higher, or that, um, people you work with or yourself, you know, have kind of identified with?
Yeah, I've got several religious clients. I wouldn't say I'm highly religious myself. I was raised a Catholic, and but Uh, yeah, one thing that I did do was I did an ayahuasca journey, and that was a very, very like a godlike, uh, experience, but it was really interaction with the grandmother or, or the mother. So this is based off Amazonian, you know, medicine. Uh, that was probably the most spiritually incredible, you know, experience of my life. Um, and yeah, so I'm, I'm certainly no expert in this space as far as Spirituality goes.
It does seem, be it ayahuasca or be it, you know, a plant substance or be it a belief system, et cetera. There does, there does seem to me, the people that I speak to, there is a moment or there is something that kind of unlocks them. And the more I am seeing, you know, very successful people, there seems to be something other that they also identify with. And so I'm exploring that a little bit. Hence the question.
Yeah, yeah, not my area of expertise, sorry.
Oh, good. Well, look, I really appreciate, uh, you, you know, turning up. People can reach you at collective.com.au. Please go and check out Greg and what he's doing. Check out the website. There's a lot of, uh, the activities that they get up to— skydiving, etc.— as a group, which obviously, you know, play together. Crazy fun. But, uh, yeah, I really appreciate you joining me and, um, And just giving that extra perspective around, you know, what it is to create that abundant life, to have that orientation of just the next step, to have that kind of action orientation, to have, you know, the vision of what you're trying to, you know, live, that happy life and not have it out in the future, do a little bit of it now. And I think that's really important because we don't know how long we have.
Yes.
But it's not just about that wealth creation. And we do have a new formula, COOL equals. Money over stress. So I think—
Coolness factor equals income divided by stress. It's true. Yeah.
I love that. So we now have a new formula that we can work to. And I think that, you know, we've had a really interesting conversation about AI as well because I see the stress levels of people go down when they can actually get things done quicker and easier and potentially they can monetize it as well. So, cool. So thank you so much, Greg. Any final words that you have?
Any final words I would say, like, is work smart, play hard, and enjoy the journey.
I love it. I love it. And if you are interested in learning more, please go to exitthematrix.today. Sign up. You get access to my dashboard where I've created a little Vibe app tool where you can have, you know, journaling and gratitude. A lot of the experiments, the soul contracts, the 4 dimensions of gratitude experiment there, and a lot of other things. So go and check it out. It's, uh, there at exitthematrix.today. Thank you so much, Greg. And as always, to everyone, here's to your success. Bye for now.
Thank you, Jane. Bye for now. Thank you for listening to Exit the Matrix Stories of Success. Make sure you subscribe to future episodes at www.exitthematrix.io. Until next time, here's to your success.
