From E-Commerce Secrets to Mindset Mastery with Alex Fedotoff | The Jared Goetz Podcast

When they understand that concept, that no matter how hard I try, I'm not going to be able to believe it until it happens. But if I stay down this path and I force myself to spend a little bit of time every day doing it, eventually, whether it's tomorrow, in a week, in a month, in a year, in 5 years, eventually something will happen that's greater than my current level of beliefs. Knowing that, like, keeps people on the path.

I had this belief that Rich people, they usually like assholes.

An international speaker, avid traveler, and the most sought-after Facebook advertising strategist on the planet for mid and enterprise e-commerce businesses. Founder of several 7 and 8-figure e-commerce brands, Alex Fedotov.

Did you at some point have to kind of abandon the relationships or stop communicating with some people in your life, like maybe friends that were like bad influence on you?

How can you change your reality if you live the same reality every day?

Right? Yeah.

How can you be inspired if there's nothing around you to inspire you?

Yeah.

What's up, Zen Hard listeners? This episode is sponsored by Zendrop. Zendrop has a very special place in my heart, not only because I started the company, but because dropshipping is really a life-changing business for me. You see, I tried tons of things when I first got started. And what I love about dropshipping is that there's always an opportunity to sell a new product to a new person. There's billions of people and millions of products you can sell, and you never need to touch inventory. All you need to do is pick a product, run ads to it, and if people buy it, you make a profit. So if you're interested in getting started in your e-commerce journey, check out Zendrop.com and get started today. Welcome to the Zen Hard Podcast. In this interview, I am talking to Alex Fedotov. Alex and I have been friends for a long time. We've been in the same industry. Alex is an e-commerce coach and an e-commerce entrepreneur, and I didn't really know what direction this conversation was going to go down, but it actually ended up going down a path that was much more insightful and much more fun than I really could have imagined. I got to learn a lot about Alex's background and the things he's been through, and we got to go back and forth in a little game of How do you become the best version of yourself? So this one's deeply insightful. This one is great for people that are maybe stuck and wanna figure out the next step and understand the frameworks of how to get there. So stay tuned, enjoy, and I can't wait to see what you think. Because we're partners with ClickFunnels, right? We've integrated with ClickFunnels. Uh-huh. And so Todd, their CEO, messaged me with a link to the, uh, to the news article saying like Trump's tariffs, they removed the de minimis rule that like Temu and Shein use. And I'm like, oh shit, I don't know what that means for us. And then I go and I look in Slack and it was like we had hundreds of messages like tech has been updated. You know, we added a little fee to make sure we cover them. So it was all fixed before I even knew there was a problem.

That's good.

Are people are freaking out about that?

Yeah, freaking out because they don't know, right? And they're like, they take information out of the context.

Yeah.

And then someone like on Twitter would post like, oh, my, my cost of product increased by like $10. And then everyone would— oh, everyone. Yeah, yeah.

You know, are you in all those communities? Like, how do you stay in the know on this stuff?

Yeah, we have 1, 2, 3 of our communities. And then I'm also in another community. Oh, I'll add you to it. It's on Telegram. There is like big e-commerce people.

Really?

Yeah.

There's a whole world of e-commerce people that I am not tapped into.

Yeah, it's, it's a— there is like, I think the minimum requirement to be there, like probably, you know, 7 figures a year. Most people are doing like more than that, like 8 figures.

You have your own communities, right?

Yeah.

What do you mean, like in Facebook or—

Yeah, it's on the— I'll add, I'll add Cheyenne or like Ben to it, like if you want, or anyone from your team. It's, it's basically our clients.

Gotcha. Can, can listeners join any of you? Like, do you have any free communities?

These are like paid communities. Paid communities. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gotcha. These are paid. Oh, we have a free one, but only for people that doing about like $50,000 per month. It's actually pretty engaged and it's free. Yeah, it's called the Dark Lord. Um, Dark Lord.

Dark Lord.

Yeah, Dark Lord.

Why? Are you like, uh, are you an evil scientist behind the scenes?

Uh, yeah, Mark. You know the Mark from my team, the big guy?

No, no, he's, uh, maybe— could I miss him?

He came up with the name. So I'm a Dark Lord, but it's very engaged, really very, very good quality people there. Yeah, there's a lot of people that are doing numbers. So I'll add anyone from your team there. And if anyone watching, listening and doing at least $50K per month in sales, yeah, we can add them to that as well.

Nice.

We just want to have this like network of people, you know, helping each other out.

Yeah. How many people are there out there that are just crushing it in e-commerce?

Um, probably thousands. I mean, thousands, tens of thousands. Really? Yeah. Some of them are like underground.

Yeah. You know, because when you have something that really works, you don't really want everyone to know what you're doing because it's, it's— I remember when my first dropshipping business took off, I didn't want anyone to know what I was selling or what I was doing. It was super secretive because I was making so much money.

Yeah.

But then there's people like yourself that are in the coaching space.

Yeah.

But you're also in the e-commerce, right? You still run stores, right? What, uh, I mean, how were you in the coaching space when I was doing— or were we like competing at it ever?

At any point, I think I probably emulated one of your funnels.

Yeah.

When you had Skill Surfing something.

Drop Surfing.

Drop Surfing.

Yeah.

Unique mechanism. Yeah, I think. I don't think we— but, you know, our coaching— I mean, your coaching business at that point was doing like already good numbers.

Yeah.

We're just like, I was just doing it on the side as a hobby.

Yeah.

Because e-commerce was the main business and Yeah, so, so that's probably like where we overlap. And then, and then you started with, uh, like Softer, right? That was like what, 2019, '18, '19?

Yeah, around that time. Uh-huh. Yeah, I think '18 was like the peak of my coaching business, and it just became something massive that I didn't really plan for. And the thing with, with businesses, like a lot of people plan like, oh, I need to do all these things, but sometimes when you just kind of take a stab at things, they turn into something incredible really quickly. But for me, it was a bit unfortunate because I didn't really want to have a huge coaching business. But like, once you start hiring employees and salespeople and you're spending money and you have overhead, you have to keep the lights on. So you have to keep it at a certain scale, right? It's kind of hard to pivot out of that for me.

Oh yeah, man. Like, we also— I started coaching business by accident as well. Like, I posted on— like, I had my first, like, success with e-commerce, like, 16, 16, 17, and I posted on a few Facebook groups. And people reached out to me, oh, can you coach me? Can you help me? And I thought they were like kidding or something. Like, you know, I didn't know like people would pay for this kind of information. Yeah. And people actually paid. And that's how the whole, my e-commerce coaching started. But we didn't take it seriously until like probably 2020, '21.

Gotcha.

We started like hiring the team and building the infrastructure and process. Like, yeah, now we just put so much time and resources into it. It became like, yeah, it's fully sufficient business.

Yeah.

So you saw my funnels back then. Right.

Were there any other big players in the space that you were like learning from on how to run this type of stuff?

I think most of your stuff.

Yeah, everyone copied my funnels, which is the biggest compliment that someone can get.

It's a VSL. VSL funnel.

I saw some kid. I don't remember his name. Actually, I won't even say his name anyway. But I remember I got hit with an ad and it was literally my exact ad. And my ad, for whatever reason, the ad that like took off was a picture of me sitting next to my dog and then like a long sales copy that would send people to a VSL.

Uh-huh.

I see this kid, a picture of him and his dog, same copy. Click the link, takes you to the exact same page. Use the word Drop Surfing, completely ripped my whole funnel. Wow. And I'm like, I sent him a message like, oh, You just copied my whole funnel. And then I realized, actually, I'm flattered. I'm flattered that you copied. That's the cool thing about internet marketing. It's not proprietary. You can learn from what other people are doing and do what they're doing, and it'll work.

Yeah. At some point, you have to start innovating. Yeah, at some point. Yeah, you copy someone, you funnel hack someone, you copy the product. But then at some point, I think the advantage— Because it's getting more like kind of there's more and more people get into it, right? So if you're doing exactly the same thing as everyone else, then like you're basically competing on the same level. So yeah, like in our e-commerce business, for instance, you know, we're developing products like custom formulas, you know, we're like we're shipping products to the United States, you know, so kind of like our supply chain is on point. And I think at some point you just have to like, like level up and just business overall, like has to constantly evolve from one stage to another. Yeah.

For sure. If you want something that builds enterprise value, right, that can be bigger than the cash that you're generating and be worth something one day, you have to innovate. You have to have something that is self-sufficient. Yeah. What's, uh, what is your coaching business turned into? That your e-commerce coaching business, right? Like, I know you're doing events, you have communities. Um, like, what has it turned into? And like, where did it start at and what has it become?

So for us, we— it's also, I mean, I always think about like this as evolution, right? So it's a coaching business. For us, the next logical step is a software like it was for you. Yeah. You know, so we're building the software platform. It's called Get Hooked AI. It's to help entrepreneurs with like finding inspiration for ads. Recreating those ads, having like AI helping them to like create the whole like creative strategy so they can advertise more effectively, creative analytics. So basically it's kind of like gradually moving towards that direction.

Yeah, that's actually really funny. I want to interject because my first thing I did while I was still coaching was build a software platform, but it was before the AI wave. It was called EH Product Finder. And it was like a vault of winning products, ad creatives, inspiration, data analytics. It was kind of like the natural progression.

Right.

And like the first level of software to build.

Right. Yeah. So that's where we start. Our overall vision with that business is to go more towards like B2B customers.

Yeah.

Bigger businesses that want to— so instead of just— let's say someone who wants to find the product, someone who wants to find the ads, like kind of like to emulate. It's also like the data behind the ads, right? So that people can run ads more effectively, can cut their losers faster, can find winners faster. And then also to be able to recreate winning ads with different hooks, different angles and stuff like that. So like gradually we're moving towards like B2B.

Yeah. You know, People ask me all the time, like, what's working today in e-commerce? And frankly, I don't really know because I'm not running e-commerce businesses. I'm not really looking at what our clients are doing. I'm running SendDrop.

Right.

You have a lot of insight into the e-commerce world. Like, what does it look like in 2025? You know, back when I was around, it was, you know, you're testing 100 products a week on Facebook. You were scaling. Are there similar kind of philosophies? Are there new things? Like, what does the landscape look like these days?

I mean, I look at it, I think there's like the ability to test like different products and kind of like that model. It's more like a general store in a way, right? I think that can still work. But I personally like to just focus on a niche and build like a niche brand because it's something that you can like, let's say if you sell the product to a customer, you can sell them more products.

Yeah.

And then also you can like with a niche, you understand your customers better. So your messaging, your marketing can be more effective. So that's, that's how I see it. And all of the people that I know that are doing like big numbers consistently year over year, building enterprise value, because that's what we are after with our e-commerce business, is they're all doing that.

Yeah.

And then product development, product innovation. Introducing new products. Like we were selling supplements, for example. We're selling gummies, manufacturing them here in the United States.

I have the biggest gummy manufacturer in the world. That's a really good friend of mine. Wow. Nice. Connect you with that. Has a manufacturing facility here in West Palm Beach.

Well, what's the name?

Gummy Works.

Oh, Gummy Works. We work with them.

Oh, you do? Yeah.

Yeah, we work with Gummy Works.

Bought that company.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

No shit. Small world.

Yeah. Funny enough, I'm working on a gummy project on the side. With a huge influencer from YouTube.

Nice.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I kind of just pieced people together. It's cool. As your career grows, you have different people that are, you know, successful in different areas. And when you can put things together and be a part of them as your network grows, you kind of get involved with things in interesting ways.

100%. Yeah. That's also like one of the upsides of having this like big e-commerce community is that, yeah, just like I can get context for anything. Yeah, you know, I know the guy who knows the guy who knows the guy. If I don't know the guy, then someone in our community knows the guy who knows the guy who knows the guy.

Right.

You know, whether it's Facebook issues, Shopify issues, like, you know, payment processing, like manufacturing, sourcing, like any, anything can be, can be sourced to that community, to that collective kind of knowledge. That's why I think one of the upsides of being like in some of these communities for entrepreneurs to just like You know, because like, like you said, there's a lot of people that wouldn't share like a lot about what they kind of do specifically, maybe what products they're selling, but they're still willing to share contacts or what's working for them. And this way you can just like accelerate, like you don't just go on Google, like what's the best like gummy manufacturer, right?

Yeah, exactly.

But if you know the guy, right, and you know, like he's legitimate, he, you know, has great manufacturing facility, then it's just so much easier.

Yeah, totally makes sense. I'm curious, like, are the guys that are crushing it in e-commerce now, are they running profitable front-end Facebook traffic? Is that— or is it more so back? Like, because back in the day, you know, I was acquiring customers at $5, $6, $10.

Golden days.

Yeah, golden days. Is that still possible?

That is still possible. But like for most I think it depends on what kind of products you're selling. Like if you're selling a gadget, let's say like $100, $150, so you can spend, let's say, $100 to acquire a customer. Like you have your COGS, shipping and stuff like that. You can still be profitable in the first transaction. But then overall, like for the longevity of business, I think everyone needs to have some kind of like consumable products so the customers come back and buy again. Like if you're selling someone a gadget, they're not likely to come back for the next year, probably. Right? And so having some kind of consumable products. And then for those consumable products, people that strictly sell those, I see that they're losing money on the front end.

Yeah, because they know the LTV of their customer, which makes sense. It's planned. But when I first got started, I remember I was actually— so I'd sold the hoverboards, and I went out to the Canton Fair. You know, the Canton Fair?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was there. Oh, you went there a few months ago? Yeah.

Oh, really fun, right? Yeah, yeah, really cool. Everyone should go to the Canton Fair just to open your eyes. Yeah, what's out there in the world. And I remember I was walking through the Canton Fair and I saw those inflatable loungers. Uh-huh. And I was like, that's the next product I'm going to sell. That's going to go viral. And I went to the booth and I was like, I need to buy some samples because I need to go back home and film and do all this stuff. And she's like, we only have 3 samples and they're dirty and they're used. I was like, I'll take them for $100. Like, well, someone else wants them. I was like, I'll give you $500. Like, I can't do it. I was like, I'll give you $1,000. So I paid $1,000 for 3 used inflatable loungers to bring them back to the US.

Wow.

Film videos, things like that. And we built a whole brand.

Wow.

And I was selling them as a premium, as like an $80 inflatable lounge where you can go and get them, you know, cheap on AliExpress for like $20, whatever. But I was I was paying $50, $60 to acquire a customer. My cost of goods were $13, shipping was $5. I was making very small margins. And then I— this is like my first time kind of testing dropshipping. I was like, let me just throw up a separate store and let me dropship them from AliExpress, uh, or it was Oberlo at the time, Oberlo supplier. And I was getting them for like similar, like $12, but I didn't have to buy inventory. So I was like, let me just try to sell them for like $35 or something, or $40. And I ran my ads and my cost per acquisition came in at $5. Wow. And I scaled that to spending like $50 grand a day. Wow. At the peak, at like $5, $10 CPA, it's just printing money. Wow. That was my first time ever trying dropshipping, and it just took off like a rocket ship. Wow. Is— does that type of thing still exist? Do people still scale like that? On products like trending products?

Yeah, but it's rare. Yeah, it's a lot.

It was even rare back then.

Yeah, it's like you probably had good timing with the product. Maybe it was like seasonal as well, kind of like maybe it's summertime or something.

Dude, I was scrappy. I didn't even— I literally downloaded a video from YouTube that someone else made and uploaded it to Facebook. It was like the Wild West back then. It was crazy.

Yeah. People still do that.

Yeah.

People still like take content from other platforms. I think right now, like, so I mean, if you look at like Facebook, like let's say Facebook as a platform, they're like inventory only like gradually increase year over year.

Right.

But then the advertisers go up a lot.

Yeah. Yeah.

And so, and then the— so inventory doesn't increase that much. And they increase, I mean, obviously what's supply and demand, right? So if there's like more people that want to advertise and there's only so much placement, then obviously they'll start increasing the CPMs and costs. So all of those costs are going up. And a lot of people, like, they found like alternative advertising platforms. And I think that's probably one of the big mindset shifts that let's say you're trying to push products on Facebook. right? And for some reason it just like doesn't work out. You have to be creative and like think, well, what could be potentially the other like advertising platforms? Like TikTok Shop, for instance, is great. I mean, I think that's probably one of the biggest like opportunities right now. Like I told you about the guy who lives in my building, like TikTok Shop and Amazon. Yeah, that's it. I'm like, are you running Facebook ads? No. And then I'm looking on Facebook and there is like probably 20 people They just ripped his product like one to one.

Yeah.

And like selling his product.

Yeah.

Profitably on Facebook.

Yeah.

And he doesn't even touch it.

He doesn't even care. Right. Because then a lot of those people go to Amazon and search for it anyway and buy his product.

Right. And on Amazon, he's also getting ripped. There are Amazon sellers, like basically his packaging is like green.

Yeah.

And so people creating the green packaging, there is no, obviously no, his logo. Like, so they just slightly changed the wording. And I think there's like limited amount of what he can do about them. Because it's not, you know, he didn't patent the green packaging or something. And they just ripping him off and they're getting like thousands, tens of thousands of sales per month with their listings. But then he's also getting ripped on Facebook. And so, I mean, I introduced him to lawyers that, you know, now he's taking many of those people down. He wasn't even like aware that, you know, he's getting so ripped so much. Because he drives so much awareness with TikTok. Right. So on TikTok, he's getting sales on TikTok Shop. He's also getting a lot of awareness for Amazon. That's how he drives a lot of, you know, top of the funnel. Like, okay, people see it on TikTok. Yeah, maybe on Amazon.

Right. Yeah.

Because they trust Amazon. And so I think that model is probably one of the most cost efficient right now. Yeah. It takes time to get momentum, to get your TikTok Shop listing to work and and have that, you know, volume like he has, like basically he maintains like thousands of affiliates, like on TikTok Shop. And then, you know, some of those affiliates, he says like he paid to one of his affiliates that's promoting his product like half a million dollars in the last few months. Yeah, half a million dollars to affiliate, like pure profit that they have made. Right. And then obviously, like the more these people make, the more he's making. Yeah, exactly. And then also, you know, now he has to be more creative with those affiliates. Okay. How can we incentivize? Okay, best affiliate of the month gets like a Tesla competition.

Yeah, yeah.

Like gets like a trip to Paris. Like, I don't know, like, so—

well, yeah, I mean, if you get 100 or 200 or 1,000 affiliates, you know, all battling to try to get a penthouse in Miami that costs half a million or whatever, $1 million.

Yeah.

You know, you might pay the million dollars, but you're going to make way more by having thousands of people all driving traffic trying to get to that point, right?

Yeah. So, so I think Traders on TikTok specifically, the ones that are good, that know how to promote products, they get so much leverage. And also, I mean, that's one of the— I mean, you're sitting at home, like you're literally sitting at home making content.

Wow. Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

Like stay-at-home moms.

Yeah.

Right. Like the students, you know, 18, 19 years old. Like in our community, we have a guy, his name is Paul Freeman. He started with Facebook. He started with that platform, but then I think he's about 40 years old, guy. He managed to sell products on TikTok Shop, be like one of the top affiliates for many brands, making hundreds of Gs a month profit. The guy like, that's the guy and he's selling products for women.

Wow.

And he's like, he's commenting, oh, this supplement for women, like for my wife, for my grandma, for my girlfriend, like, and he's talking about those managing to sell those products effectively.

Yeah.

He makes it. Bank.

What a world we live in.

Crazy.

There's so much opportunity out there.

Yeah, there's so—

why do you think that there's people that just never take the action when there's so much opportunity?

That's a great question, man. Yeah, that— I'm asking myself this every day, like, and, you know, we, we try to educate entrepreneurs like you, you know, posting a lot of content. And, um, I think it's like people have— first of all, it comes with a mindset. Right. Because, I mean, if all of the tools— if you take that variable out of the way, information is there, tools are there, strategies are there. What's left?

The person, their beliefs.

Right.

Which are going to either propel them forward or hold them back.

Exactly. And so, yeah, people—

have you done much like personal development work? Like, have you done any like Tony Robbins events or, you know, read any books on those types of topics?

Yeah. I mean, I've— I was like this close to like to joining the Platinum. Yeah, like last year.

But like, you've been to his events?

Never. Oh, you never went?

You almost just joined the Platinum, but you've never been to an event?

Yeah, yeah, I, I, I like to just surpass all of these. Like, yeah, she'll say I just want to go straight to the top.

Yeah.

Uh, but I work with coaches. Uh, there are some coaches that, you know, like just advise me, and, uh, I, uh, I'm very selective. Like, that's why I don't work with like too many people on this. Um, and, uh, also I'm maintaining my circle of, you know, other people that are like just good humans, good entrepreneurs that, you know, I'm spending time with and just, you know, kind of getting their perspective on things. But I'm just like very, like, very like selective in terms of like who I want. Because if you get a wrong coach, can give you wrong, like, you know, I remember I signed up once on this platform, BetterHelp. BetterHelp.

Or better, yeah, yeah. It's like a, I know that, I've heard of that platform.

Like $300 a month, right? And I'm like, I don't know, like, and I signed up and I paid and then we have the first call scheduled and I'm like thinking, okay, what kind of advice that person can give me? Yeah. Like, person is like $300.

Yeah.

Like, I don't know.

I'd rather spend $1,000,000 on an amazing coach, right, than $300 on a bad coach.

Right. Because I mean, if he, if he finds a way to influence me and get to some conclusions, like, what if he's his own mindset is limited, right? He passes those limitations on me. I don't want that.

I— so Tony Robbins does one-on-one coaching. I think it costs $1 million a year or $2 million a year. I'm trying to do it.

Oh nice.

If anyone listening has a connection to get that, like, I want to do it.

I can introduce you to— you know Nick Fisher?

Yeah, I know Nick. I know very well. He used to work for me. He's gonna be my CMO. Oh really?

Nick Fisher?

Yeah, yeah, he's my CMO of my coaching business, which is why we took off so much. Wow. I— so I met Nick when he was working for Sam Ovens, consulting.com. Wow. Remember Sam Ovens? I heard he was doing like $100 million a year in his coaching business. I was just getting started. I was doing maybe like $5 or $8 million a year, whatever it was. And I was like, I need to learn what Sam is doing. And I somehow— I don't remember how I got in touch with Nick, but I was like, dude, we got a big opportunity here. And I gave him a great incentive. He got a percentage of the profits, and we scaled that thing big time together. So I know Nick very well.

So Nick is in very good touch with Tony?

Yeah, because he runs a lot of their email marketing. Yeah, Dean Grad. So I have those inter—

I've—

I have a lot of connections. I just don't know why he's never gotten back to me. So—

oh really?

Anyway, maybe they'll listen to this. He actually just featured me. You know, he does like a, um, a live event called Time to Rise. There's like a million people live. He does it once a year. So yeah, Tony. Uh-huh. So he sent, um, a camera crew to— he like used me as a testimonial. Took the camera crew to my house to like film me and my family and like do an interview. And he played the video, uh, last weekend actually, in front of a million people live. And like 2 million people total saw it.

Wow.

And she still won't get back to me about the coaching. But seriously, like, coaching is a beautiful thing, right? Because like you said, the tools are there, the tactics are there, the resources are there. The only thing holding you back is yourself. So I think as a coach, like, you can be very effective in helping people by becoming an expert in how to change.

Oh yeah, man. And it's like, you know, I'm just— I was reflecting the other day on my own journey. Like, so I came with my family to United States 2020. We've done very well. Like, I mean, our business just like blew up. I mean, COVID was, you know, a part of that, big part of that, because as business operator, I wasn't very good back then. Yeah. And then, you know, we made a lot of money, so everything was good. But then I'm just— I was reflecting the other day, what would happen if I even had like the mindset I have right now about the business, about hiring, about managing like leadership and stuff like that? If I had the same mindset back then, fuck. I mean, yeah, you know, our business would be like 10 times bigger now.

It could. Or You could have done something that was too big. Maybe you got sued. Maybe you went down a bad path. Maybe you got addicted to drugs. Maybe you ended on the street. Who knows what path you could have went down.

That is— yeah, that's a—

that's a beautiful thing is you have the position that you're in now and the opportunity you have now, and that's all that exists.

I love that point of view. It's true.

It's true. I mean, if I think about how much I could have scaled my business when I was getting, you know, $5 cost per acquisition, uh-huh. And I literally didn't have a credit card. I had to ask my grandma to use hers for Facebook ads because all I had was a debit card and Bank of America would shut it down every single day. And I wasn't in like the private bank. I was in like the public bank. And I would have to call Bank of America, sit on hold for 45 minutes, explain to someone on the other side of the line who doesn't give a shit, even the slightest fuck about me. Hey, I know I do this every day. You guys block my debit card. It's me. And I'll hold. Hold, please. Ask me all the same questions. If I knew what I know now, right, I would have rapidly accelerated that business. But maybe, uh, maybe I never would have had the relationship I have with my wife. Maybe I never would have had my son, though, you know.

So, wow, this is, this is a nice perspective. Wow.

Yeah, there's a lot to be grateful for, right?

And also, I mean, you wouldn't have had the experience that you had like fucking up, making mistakes, because on this journey, right, like you make some mistakes, you're learning from them. That's how you become better. Yeah.

And so I've learned to actually, like, after enough challenges that you get over— at first, challenges are very scary, you can't see a way out. You get over them. Maybe I got lucky. Next one, you get over it. Oh, maybe I got lucky again. Next one, you get over it. Okay, like I did learn a lot. Next one, you get over it. Okay, I'm gonna— I'll probably get over the next one. Then you get enough validation that you know you're gonna get past them. And you realize when you look back how much you learned through them. I look at challenges now, like, the harder and more fucked up they are, I'm kind of like, ooh, the other side of this is going to be good.

Man, that's literally— yeah, I literally look at it the same way. And I remember when that was just— I would get frustrated, angry, like irritated when something happened.

Yeah.

And now it's just like, yeah, it's just part of the ride. Yeah.

And the other side is like, the other side of challenges is you being a step closer to your highest potential.

Right.

You grow through those things. So it's like, thank you for this opportunity to become a better version of myself.

Yeah, man. Even like, you know, I'm reflecting. So we are coaching like a lot of like e-commerce entrepreneurs. And for me, it's like, it's kind of like the code that I'm like constantly trying to crack is like, okay, literally we have. So just give you perspective. On our team, we have like 12 account managers, 12 coaches.

Yeah.

So we have— and these are coaches that have e-commerce experience running e-commerce stores.

Like, yeah, they're experts.

Legit, legit experts. Not like someone from Fiverr.

Yeah.

And so we have that. We have very streamlined program. We have all of the connections that we share with people. Like, literally everything is there. And I'm like, okay, Why? Like, why the fuck you are not taking action? Why you're not like literally all these resources and people like come into the program, like, for example, with, you know, they're not happy with their job or they're not making enough money. They have families to support. You know, like there's so many of these things. And I remember myself, you know, when I was starting out, like that was like fire under my ass. Like, yeah, like I want to take care of my family. I want to like, I'll do whatever it takes to to make money and to support them. And, you know, and I'm like, why people are not doing it? And then, you know, I mean, we're like literally talking about this, like, on the way here, is that I think people don't have vision for their life.

That is definitely one factor of it. I have some insight to share about this topic, actually, because I've thought long and hard about this and And I've actually— this book, uh, Overnight Success, is literally about how to get your first big breakthrough. It's like an inner game playbook on how to get to that next level. I put— I've thought long and hard about this topic, and I've concluded that there's kind of two ways that people take the leap, right? One is they either hit a rock bottom or they get put in so much pressure that they have no choice but to act. And that's rare, and it's actually something that you probably don't want to happen. The other thing is we all have like beliefs about reality, right? Like if we grew up in a certain way, that's what life is like to us in our subconscious, in our interaction with the universe. This is what life is like. And you see other people that are doing this or doing that, making money, doing this, and you're like, yeah, I know it's possible, but they don't actually believe that it's possible for them yet because they haven't experienced it yet, because our beliefs are based on experiences. So the, the way to get to the next step, you need to outperform the belief, right? So if you believe that this is reality, but then something happens that's greater than that belief, now you've raised your beliefs to another level. Now you'll never go back, right? So I think when you're coaching people and, you know, these types of people around, like, when they understand that concept that no matter how hard I try, I'm not going to be able to believe it until it happens, but if I stay down this path and I force myself to spend a little bit of time every day doing it, eventually, whether it's tomorrow, in a week, in a month, in a year, in 5 years, eventually something will happen that's greater than my current level of beliefs. Knowing that, like, keeps people on the path. And then it's like, oh shit, this, this worked, right? And now they're, now they're, they're past that. And then after a few times of outperforming your beliefs, and you've probably been through this and maybe haven't even thought about it or recognized it. Maybe you have. After doing that a number of times, like, I know I don't believe that I can build the next Amazon internally, but I know that if I continue to outperform my beliefs, there's a chance that that could happen because I've been through it so many times. I think because again, I was coaching people in the same, like the same demographic, demographic of people as you, and I had a different format. It was like a group coaching. People get on Zoom, we would talk. But that's how, like, people would show up to the calls and they would, they would know all about the tactics. They'd be, they would have all the technical skills, right? But the people who ended up succeeding were the ones that showed up excited versus the people who showed up skeptical. The people showed up skeptical didn't have enough energy to break past their belief, but the person who showed up excited, they had enough energy in the tank to give it enough shots that eventually something works and they continue onward. Wow. So that, that's like a, like a framework, like a mental framework and like a, you know, psychological framework that as a beginner, if you understand that, you know, one day you'll wake up and you'll be like, man, this isn't going to work. But you know what? I'm going to go show up anyway. I'm going to go spend 2 hours at the coffee shop. I'm going to go do something. I don't know what I'm going to do, but I'm going to go do it. I'm going to do it anyway because I know that eventually something will break past my beliefs and let me grow. And if someone could anchor onto that early on, they're going to give it a shot. And like, you know, in e-commerce or really in any business, you try enough things, something's going to work.

Yeah.

The only people that fail are the ones that stop trying things. So it's just about encouraging people. And if you give them the right tools and tactics, then it's going to be a shorter path to that next thing. If people don't know the tools or tactics, it's going to be a longer path. But I don't know, that framework has really been helpful.

I love it. I love it. Yeah. It's just reflecting also, I have coaching calls sometimes. Someone needs one-on-one call with me and it's like I see these people that, like you said, show up with that energy.

Yeah.

And I know, boom, based on how many people I've had conversation with over the years, I know that that person will succeed.

Yeah.

Like, I don't give a fuck. It will be like, like you said, 1 month, 6 months, 12 months. I know that that person is a top performer.

Right.

They'll find a way to make it happen because even if they make some mistakes, yeah, you know, they're like, oh, you know, I made this mistake.

Oh, you know, the attitude, good energy.

Yeah. They're like reflecting, okay, this didn't work. Okay, what should I do next? Bam, bam, bam. Right. So now they're like open-minded.

Yeah.

Right. Like that. What they've done, like, didn't work. Why didn't it work? So now they're starting, like, reflecting on information, reflecting on the data they got from the market.

Yeah.

And those people, I know that they'll be successful.

Now there's those people, and then there's the people that show up with the bad energy that aren't going to do it. And the, the real challenge is helping those people go from their low vibrational state to the people that have the high vibrational state. And that's where I think, like, you know, I didn't show up today to give you advice on how to do coaching, but where I think you could make a really big impact on people because you've created a great system that works. I think if you, if you start implementing some things that can help people understand how to transcend themselves into the version of themselves that will succeed, you can amplify the results that people who come through your programs have.

We have one of the action points people, people have when they join the program. They have to do the, the vision board.

Yeah, nice.

They have to kind of, okay, what, what they want their life to look like, you know, in a few years. And, uh, yeah, we're trying to, like, I mean, we're trying to do everything from our side to kind of like facilitate that, that change in people.

Yeah.

And, you know, for some people it's like takes like a week to do, for some people like it takes months, and then finally something clicks and they become like more open-minded.

Yeah.

And, uh, like you said, if, if someone is like skeptical. And, uh, then whatever information you give them, you give them the right tactics, resources, strategies. Yeah, they'll be like—

they're one thing away from giving up when they're looking for the reason to stop.

Exactly.

Looking for the reason to keep going. And I think to achieve anything in life, you need two things. You need a vision, which is your vision board, and you need discipline. I think the combination of those two things will get you anywhere. But I think another challenge people face is like all right, come up with your vision. And it's like, well, when you're in a low vibrational state, maybe you're, you know, scrolling on your phone, whatever it is, you try to think of a vision but you can't get it because it's just— you're in a gloomy state. So like, when, when I have these conversations about a vision, about figuring out how to get to the next level, like, I'm pretty adamant that like, before you even think about your vision, get yourself into a really good state, a good mood. Like the things Tony Robbins teaches. Yeah, like for me it's, it's get up, like maybe go run a mile, like, you know, get out in some sunshine, put some music on that I love, you know, you're in a great mood. And then from that state it's like, all right, what can my life look like? And then you're writing it down, then you go back and you make the vision board. But if people are like, you know, they've been living the same way for 10 years, same cycle, same routines, eating the same foods, having the same people and problems in their lives, and they're trying to think of their vision from that state, you know, and they're maybe sitting in their house and they, you know, they're, they're playing a video game or they're scrolling on social media, it's really hard to come up with the vision. The vision almost becomes what they're seeing other people's lives be like. Oh yeah, I want that car because that guy who posted it got a bunch of validation. That seems like that would be nice. But really their vision might be, you know, and it usually is like, I want to have a beautiful family that I love, right? Yeah. It's like But once you get in the high vibrational state, it becomes much more clear and easy. Yeah.

One of the things that was very helpful for me, like, so, I mean, I come from Ukraine and for a long time, I mean, my whole life, basically until the age of like 25, 26, I had this belief that rich people, they usually like assholes.

Yeah.

And the reason I had this belief was like, first, I mean, I didn't have like entrepreneurs in my family, so the only reference points First, I mean, I knew that I wanted to make money because money was always a problem in my family. Yeah, I want to get rich. But subconsciously, I also didn't want to become rich because all of the people that were like doing well financially that I knew, that I saw, were indeed assholes. Like, you know, back in Ukraine, it's like someone who starts making money, they usually overweight. They usually treat their like wives and families like shit. They usually like Like even like you try to cross the street, like the street on the pedestrians, like, you know, they wouldn't stop. They wouldn't fucking stop.

Yeah.

And there's many accidents like they would hit people because they don't give a fuck. Yeah. And if, if cops stop them, they drink, they drink and drive. Yeah. And cops stop them, they just pay the money, just drive, drive from there. Like, no problem. At least how it maybe changed, I don't think. But yeah, that was my belief that the rich people are bad.

That was your vision of what rich people were, right?

And so subconsciously, on one side I want to be rich, on the other side I just, I didn't want to become that kind of person because like, and you thought the two were connected, right? But like, one, what changed for me was like, I, I, so I had all this belief and then 2016, um, my wife and me, like, we went to Monaco and, uh, I mean, I wasn't making— I, I was, I was making like we were making like decent money, maybe like $10,000, $20,000 a month. And we went to Monaco and went to Monaco. And then you see there's a lot of rich people, very fucking rich people. And you cross the street and like the way we would cross the street, like in Ukraine, it's like you're really fucking looking at the guy. Yeah, he's going to fucking stop.

Yeah.

And you're crossing the street and the fucking guy drives like Ferrari. And he fucking stops.

Wow. Slowly. Yeah.

And lets you go, like, and very patient. I'm like, shit. Oh, so the rich people not necessarily have to be asshole. So boom, paradigm shift. Yeah, right. So if someone lived, like, lives in their village, in their city, like, they have this, like, small circle of people. And obviously beliefs probably come from that circle as well, from the information they consume, right? They have to, like, at least for the time being, for some temporary time, like just relocate, go to a nice city. Yeah, go, go to another like country. Like most Americans, I think, never been abroad.

I think Americans haven't been abroad.

No.

Wow.

I think so. I mean, we can Google it.

I mean, I wouldn't be surprised, but thinking about it is pretty crazy to think about.

Yeah.

Like I couldn't imagine never having been in another country, right?

Yeah. And so, and so now they have not been exposed to a different life.

Yeah, right.

And so if you're not exposed to a different life, how can you believe that this life is even possible?

Yeah, yeah. How can you change your reality if you live the same reality every day, right? Yeah. How can you be inspired if there's nothing around you to inspire you? Yeah, like, I think that's a really true— I mean, I know when I travel, like, you know, I would go to China, and then I know, like, one time I decided I'm gonna go to travel around Thailand by myself I had like a duffel bag and a backpack, and like, that trip was so inspirational to me because it was just— there's so many things that brought me like a state of awe where I'm like, wow, like, look at that, like, Buddhist temple, or like, you know, look at this beautiful view, or like, it just inspired different energy that creates different thoughts, right? That's a really good piece of advice, is to get out, go somewhere new.

Yeah.

What you're saying, I think, about rich people and, and your belief on that is really profound because If you want to be something, but your vision of what that thing is conflicts with what you believe you also want to be, right? You're never going to become it because there's always going to be a voice in your head telling you not to become it, even though you want to become it, right?

Yeah. If you think like, oh, it's like, oh, rich people, money doesn't make you happy. Money doesn't make you happy. Money doesn't make you happy. Right? Like, and people say that, like, you read it, like someone, someone says, oh, money doesn't make you happy.

Yeah.

Like, money doesn't make you happy. Money doesn't make— Over time, you start fucking believing that money will not make you happy. So why even try to become rich or make money if it doesn't make you happy?

Yeah.

Or it's like, oh, rich people, like, they, they're like, I don't know, cheating, like men cheating on their wives. Like, other— like, it's you. If, if that is correlated, like you said, with the belief.

Yeah.

So I want to be rich, but also I want to become this person. Like, then this belief wouldn't allow you to become.

Yeah. And in reality, like most of the time, we're not even aware of what our beliefs are. Unless we try to identify them.

Yeah.

So like if you had sat down and said, all right, I want to be rich, but I believe rich people are this, that, and whatever, you would realize there's a conflict and maybe you would look into it. But if you don't actually try to take a moment to say, what are my beliefs about life and what do I want to be and do they conflict with each other? You would never know that that internal conflict exists, especially in today's day and age where the moment you might start thinking about it, your brain's like, nah, let's just go scroll on Instagram instead. Right, right. You don't even go down that path at all. So doing that deep personal work and understanding yourself, I think, is the key to unlock next levels of success in any area of life.

100%. Because that, that will drive your— like, if you believe something, then you'll, you'll take action or not take action based on that belief. And then, and then, yeah, that will lead you to the results that you want or don't want.

Yeah. I know most of the successful people that I know— and when I say successful, yeah, I've met people of all different levels. Um, the majority, almost every single person that I know that's like massively wealthy has a lot of fun. Yeah, very fun people. They're kind of carefree.

Yeah.

Um, they're very nice, they're very generous. Yeah, they're not egotistical. But growing up, I didn't believe that. Growing up, I thought like they were standoffish or they would never accept me because I grew up, you know, similarly in a one-bedroom apartment with my mom and, you know, renting out someone's basement in their house. Wow. And like, we didn't have any rich people around us, so I had that same vision. But now being immersed in people of wealth, I realized like that's complete bullshit. Like, I live in a neighborhood now where it's, you know, the minimum house price is $4 million and it goes up a lot from there. So everyone in that neighborhood's relatively wealthy, I have not met a single person that is not one of the nicest people. Like, they are all so nice.

Yeah.

And all so cool. So, but I didn't know that was my belief growing up. It's a really interesting topic to think about that, man.

But this is, this is the foundation of everything, right? Like the— because we're trying to— I mean, you, you, you guys try with, with Zendrop to help and influence entrepreneurs, help them build businesses. We're trying with our education, also with, with our software. And it's like Yeah, it's such, such an important thing to help people with because if you help with that, then all of the tactics, all of the tools, all of the software, all the platforms will be just so much more useful for them. Yeah, they'll believe that that software, that tool will make a difference. They'll use it, you know, to their full advantage.

I would argue to say that if you had to pick the tactics or this personal work and you only got one choice, personal work comes first. Yeah. Because like you said, you have the tactics, but you don't have the beliefs or the vision, or you have the skepticism. It doesn't matter what you have, right? In my personal journey, everything that I've ever built that has become something significant, I never learned about it first. Like, I didn't learn how to build software before I built ZenDrop. I didn't learn how to dropship before I started dropshipping. I didn't learn how to build an education business. It was more like I was in an inspired state and I just took the next step.

Did you at some point have to kind of like abandon the relationships or stop communicating with some people in your life, like maybe friends that were like bad influence on you and stuff like that?

It's a good question. I mean, I don't think I've ever necessarily like anyone very close to me. I've never like cut them out of my life, but I definitely have become more aware of the things I talk to them about. I remember when I first started making money, You know, we had a group. We still have a group of really good friends. And, you know, and when I'm excited about something, I want to talk to my friends about it, right? I'd be like, yo, I just, you know, made this money in an investment. Or like, I'm just excited. I'm like, I put money in like a forex trading bot. It doubled today. And you could tell my friends are like, oh yeah, cool, like whatever. And like, you could tell they didn't want to hear it because they're not doing it. So I became aware that like, all right, financial things, don't really want to talk about it. Which is challenging because it's like the things you're doing, you're excited about and you want to share, right? But at the same time, like, I don't know, good relationships, people you love, like, yeah, they are, you know, they're part of your life. So I don't know, it's a fine balance. What's your perspective on it?

My— I mean, yeah, it's similar. So with my parents, my parents always saw me as a factory worker, right? So when I was working in a factory, They were like, you worked in a factory? Oh yeah.

What'd you do?

Uh, I was working on CNC machines. Oh yeah, these are machines that are cutting like from metal and stuff like that.

Yeah.

And so I was, um, I was putting the parts in. I was like doing some simple like setup on those.

In Ukraine?

Uh, in Ukraine. Uh, also, uh, I was in United States, uh, when I was like between the age of like, uh, 20, uh, I don't know, 18 and, uh, 23.

How old are you now?

I'm 34.

Oh, we're the same age. Yeah. Okay, cool.

1990.

99. Yeah. What, what month?

Uh, July.

August. So you are a month older than me.

Yeah. Yeah. And so, um, so I was working in a factory and my parents were completely cozy, like, kind of like happy, uh, that I just have a job.

Yeah.

And so Like when I— so we moved from Ukraine like 2014 to Poland and we got a job on the factory there too. And I was working there with my wife and at some point I just decided to quit that job. I quit the job and that's how I got into like, oh, like online. I started as a freelancer and then from there you learn about e-commerce, dropshipping. So it's kind of like went from there. But like, for my parents, I didn't tell them that I quit my job. Yeah. Until I was already like a millionaire. I was made like more than $1 million. Yeah. And I didn't tell them. I was like, yeah, yeah, working factory, everything is good. Because I didn't want like— because they would say, oh, you started the business? Oh, it's so risky.

Yeah.

Because in their own like career, I mean, like their own journey, like they started the business.

Yeah.

And it didn't work out for them. Probably they don't have the right mindset for it.

Yeah, it's not a productive conversation.

Yeah. And so I just decided to not have that conversation. And even when I told them like, hey, you know, I started— yeah, I actually quit my job and I started the business. Like, why did you do that? Yeah. Like, why are you not getting— get yourself a job? And so, yeah, that was like the last— right now our conversation about business, like, do you have a— and the way they ask about this is like, do you have enough work? Which means, is business doing well?

All right. Yeah.

It's like, do you have enough work? Yeah, I have enough work. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's our conversation stops right there. And I'm asking about them, how can I help them, support them? And that's, that's our whole conversation.

But yeah, I just— you don't— yeah. So it's like you didn't cut them out of your life, but you changed, right?

You talk about—

yeah, yeah. Same thing. Same thing. That's— well, the thing is, I think there's, there's a couple of reasons why people like don't want to see you succeed in something like that. Number one, either they don't believe it's the best path for you because like, right, in their reality it's like it's not possible, like I didn't exist. On the other hand, which is not so good, it's like people who had those types of dreams and they never followed them and they took their path, they don't want to feel like they made the wrong choice, right, by seeing you take the other path and do better. Yeah, so it hurts them to see you do better by taking the path that you're on.

Exactly. Yeah. So that, that's one of those, um, yeah, I think it's, yeah, it's either you— I mean, some people I had to cut from my life. Yeah. Like, and, and the reason I had to, because like, for example, you know, I would share, you know, what I'm doing like in business, and then I just wouldn't see— like, it's not, it's not just like, um, it's not just the, um, you know, that they, um, they would be like, yeah, okay, like, like you said, you know, whatever. But it's kind of like they want you to fail. Yeah, they, they're like, oh, we'll see how that works out. Yeah, for you. And so like, for me, like, I don't want to have people close to me that I'm spending time with like that, that like don't, don't want me to succeed. Because I want them to succeed. I'm sharing it with them because I want them to succeed. Hey, you know, you can do this and this and this, right? Like, I want help them, but then it's not— they just want to help themselves.

Yeah.

They also don't want me to succeed. So I don't want that kind of like—

they're projecting their toxic energy onto you, their fears, their worries. Right. You know, they don't want to feel belittled, so they're projecting. Yeah. It's like it doesn't— and at the end of the day, I mean, there's really not that many people in your life that are going to be in your life forever. And it's your family, maybe a handful of good friends.

Yeah.

And if the people around you aren't, you know, sharing the love, like, right, point of being— yeah, relationship with them.

And, and few, few friends that I still like maintain from like childhood, those are the, those are the people that like, you know, like I have one of my friends, he lives in New York, he works as a conductor on the train, and, uh, he's, um, I mean, he just has good life. I mean, good life for himself, right? Like, yeah, he bought a house in Connecticut. He, he just works. He has a good job, benefits, you know, everything that he probably wished for.

Yeah.

And a few times, you know, I shared with him, you know, like, you know, you want to do business, like, here's what you can do. Here's some opportunities. He never wanted to do that. Like, he's more kind of like a risk-averse person, but he is a good person. Yeah. He doesn't wish me like, oh, I wish you to fucking fail. Right. Like, and so, and he, you know, he, he sends he sent some stuff from a kid, you know, for, for like birthday, and we stay in touch, you know. So, uh, those people are cool, right?

Yeah.

But if someone is like deliberately like jealous and like, and you see that they, they, they don't wish you well, like, I would rather not have those people at all.

I mean, if you're like me, like, we don't have that much extra space in life, right, in general. Like, my, like, I don't answer most of the messages that come to me because I got a lot going on and, and, and I want to spend all my free time and energy with my family, right? So like, if I'm letting someone else into my reality, like, it needs to be someone that should be there.

Yes.

No negativity. There's no room for it, especially as you have more going on and you have more to manage, more to think about. There's less and less room for that type of stuff. I read, uh, in actually Elliot, who produces this show, you met him. Since he started here, he's been telling me to read a book called The Neville Collection.

Neville Ravikant?

No, not Naval Ravikant.

Ah, no.

Neville. I don't remember the name of the book, but The Neville Collection.

Neville.

It's Neville Goddard. He's like a philosopher from the early 1900s. Incredibly deep and cool stuff.

Like stoicism? Kind of like, was it along both?

Kind of more so like interprets the Bible, but he interprets it not as, um, a drama with characters doing actual things, but more as a depiction of the internal mind, and characters are parts of it. So he like— it's really cool what he says. But you know, the first part of the book, the first part of the collection is talking about manifesting things, creating things, you know, getting what you want in life. And the first rule is the rule of secrecy, which is when you want something, you don't tell anyone about it. Because when you tell people about it, they project their fears onto you, they project their insecurities onto you. So it never serves you to tell people about the things you're doing, unless of course there's someone that you want to do the thing with, or an advisor, or someone that can help you. But it never serves you to talk to your friends or family about the thing that you want to do unless you're genuinely on the fence about doing it or not. But if you know you want to do it Keeping it to yourself is always the right answer, but your ego wants to share it because you want to be like, I'm so excited about this, get me more excited about it. But it doesn't happen that way, right? So it's always the rule like that, at least that I'm following. And this book validated— I'm reading it right now— that keeping things secret is, is definitely like the way to go when you're starting new things.

Yeah, we're actually— we— so we live in Miami, you know, we're moving from one building to another. And, um, we have a— we have this neighbor, and, uh, my wife shared, um, oh, it's like, you know, we're moving. Like, we told her, like, we're moving. Like, I know they had some conversations. Like, oh, which building are you moving? Oh, we're moving to this building. And she's like, oh, you know what, that building is like— it has very bad foundation. When— and it's like, and it's a— it's, it's the most fucking premium building in the whole fucking Yeah, it's— yeah, it's like billionaires fucking have apartments there.

Yeah.

Like, yeah, it's, it's bad building, you know? It's— yeah, when they were building it, it's basically very close to the water.

Yeah.

And it's like the whole, like, foundation, like, kind of got leaked or something. And it's like on a very, like, bad foundation. It's like, yeah, it's not good.

It's like, oh, what are you, a foundation expert?

Yeah, it's like, yeah, yeah. Okay. I'm like, I don't want to argue with those people.

I was like, what are you going to argue? You're going to, you're going to try to convince her that it's good foundation?

It's like, Yeah, it's just waste of energy. So, okay. Yeah, okay, cool. And it's like, and then like after that, like, keep it clean, keep it like quiet.

Like, yeah, no one, like, you know, especially if she's not someone that you're going to be spending a lot of time with in the future, right? Doesn't really serve you to share. Yeah, that's pretty funny.

Well, you know, it could be because, yeah, you know, Jared, like that, like actually that area that you moved to, like, was, uh, like multi-million dollar houses.

It's like shit.

Yeah, it's actually shit.

Poisonous fertilizer. Yeah, it's like, yeah, you know, and like you should be careful with your kids there.

And 3,000 years ago there was a cemetery on there. Yeah, that bad.

Like, yeah, it's like, first of all, why would you share that? Why would you even say that? I'm already moving there. Yeah, I think it could be because like maybe that's a place that she would love to live in, right, but doesn't have the means to, or maybe it's close to having the means but it'd be a big struggle. So she's looking for reasons not to that are outside of her right reasoning. It's like, yeah, not because I don't, you know, not because I don't want to, it's because of this reason. And now she wants to project her fears onto you, right? Yeah, that's a great example.

Yeah, man. Um, but that's like, you know, I think everyone listening, watching this, like, just look at who's in your circle. Like, if you're not where you are, where you want to be in life, and for some reason you're struggling to get out of that for some period of time, then look around yourself and see who's influencing your beliefs. Could be your family, friends. Like, if in the school, it could be teachers. Like, it's just like so many, so many places. Like, where do you even like take the information, right? Like, and I think, you know, right now, like, the beauty of our time is that— I mean, on one side, it's beauty that we have access to so much information. On, on the other side, it's also so much bad information.

Right, right.

Like, you know, I had those conversations with some of, some of our clients and they, you know, the ones that are like actually evolving, progressing. It's like, yeah, first like 6 months, you know, I didn't do much, but I just brainwashed myself with like, you know, what's like Alex Hormozi, like, and a few other people and, you know, kind of like reinserting some of the good beliefs. Right. So at that initial stage, If your beliefs until that point were fucked, like you have to basically brainwash and like reprogram yourself to start believing some other things that are more productive for you to, to achieve what you want to do.

Yeah, there's certainly a lot of good information you can consume out there, but it's also like a tripwire to fall into a hole where it's like, I'm going to go watch this thing. And next thing you know, you're like watching a video of someone like pouring glitter on a teddy bear and, you know, fling it in the air, you know, watching. Let me watch another one of those. Oh yeah, you know, you do have to have the self-discipline to consume.

And man, like, and the algorithms are so fucking good. Yeah, like, like literally, I mean, you go on TikTok, it knows you better than you know yourself.

Yeah, yeah, I, I don't want to go on TikTok. I don't want to. I don't go on Insta. I don't have Instagram either. No, no. Oh wow, I don't have Instagram. I don't have TikTok. I don't have Facebook. The only thing I have on my phone is YouTube. Uh-huh. And that is kind of my guilty pleasure. Sometimes I'll scroll on YouTube. I only have YouTube on my phone because when I try to log into my email, it makes me open the YouTube app and confirm a code. That's how Gmail works. So every time I delete it, I have to go redownload it, and then I'm like, well, I don't, you know, have to download next time, so I keep it there. But not having social media on my phone has been— I've done this many times before in life. This is probably my longest stretch. It's— it has to have been since maybe October, so November, December, January, almost 4— yeah, 4 months I haven't had any social media on my phone. It's great, it's very free, it's very freeing. It's like I don't care, I don't— I, you know, wow, just less things to take.

How do people get in touch with you if they want to?

Uh, they figure out a way. Well, I have like— Elliot is in my Instagram, for example.

Okay.

And you know, there, there's things being posted on the Zen Hard podcast on my personal page. Um, I don't know if my DMs get read, to be honest. I don't really care. Like, if someone needs to get in touch with me or they really want to get in touch with me, they'll figure out a way. Hmm, they'll figure it out.

Probably Tony Robbins has the same mindset. That's why you cannot get in touch with him.

I'm trying though. I couldn't figure out a way. His system doesn't work.

He's probably not on his Instagram, right? Imagine, like—

I don't think so. No, I don't think so. I don't know anyone who has built a real legacy that spends a lot of time on their social media. I know a lot of hustlers and people that are building things that, you know, probably spend a lot and, you know, I gotta use it for business and whatever, no problem. Yeah, but like the, the people I know that are like really, you know, I have a friend in my neighborhood that built a $100 billion company. Wow. It's like he doesn't have Instagram. He wouldn't even come on the podcast.

Oh wow, he wouldn't come on the podcast.

He's like, I don't want to be on the internet. Wow, he's a good friend of mine.

What kind of company?

Uh, it's a biotech company, like publicly traded biotech company. Wow. Um, but yeah, he wouldn't come on the podcast. He's like, I don't want to be on the internet. I respect it. He's like, I'm happy to sit down with you and talk like we're doing a podcast. I just don't really have a desire to be online.

I think this is, this is a big one, right? Um, it's like, yeah, there are many people that like you wouldn't even find like on the internet. I mean, you know, people glorify like all the people that like, you know, have big audiences and like, like sharing content. But then there's a lot of like silent killers just behind the scenes, like building businesses and stuff.

Yeah, most, most of the real people that are, that are like really out there building, you know, impactful things are more behind the scenes. Yeah, because when you're in front of the audience, like no matter how, you know, well you've developed yourself, there is this, this search for validation, right, that you need to get externally. And it takes up so much energy. Like, when I had Instagram and I'd make a post, I'd like open it and say, how many likes does it have?

Like, right, oh, oh, good.

Or fuck, why not? Oh, should I delete it? I don't know. It's like it just scattered my, my state of being, where if I just maintained my centered, you know, a good state of being, my day would have been better. And that happens at scale. It's like, and the next thing you know, you get a DM and you're talking to someone and you're talking to another person and it just takes so much energy. It doesn't take a lot of physical energy, but it takes a tremendous amount of mental energy to be active on social media.

And that, that energy is like, imagine that energy you could allocate. Okay, what other things you can build in a business, right? What kind of person like you need to hire next, right? What is the biggest challenge like right now you're trying to overcome? Yeah, because there is so much energy we have on a day-to-day basis.

Well, I believe that we find everything we need by, by being present. Uh-huh. Like, I think we find the answers and the next step forward. Like, my philosophy on business isn't like whoever works the hardest gets the furthest ahead. Mine is whoever makes the smartest decisions gets the furthest ahead. So like, I'll go, you know, I'll have days where I don't log into my computer. I'll go on like a 7-mile walk and I'll have one idea. That is a big idea that like solves a bunch of our problems as opposed to trying to go solve them all one by one and getting stressed and doing a whole bunch of things. Like just one thing. I'm like, oh, if I do that, actually, yeah, that makes total, total sense, right? But that only comes from giving yourself some kind of solitude or something where you're not like thinking or doing. And social media, it gets in the way of, of, of going inward, I guess. Right, just keeps pulling you outward. So I believe that that's a really important thing to understand and develop, is like more time developing yourself. I think the answers come— like, my kind of overarching philosophy is that we, I mean, we're just an energy, and we— our energy is our emotions and the way we feel, and the way we feel produces thoughts of that same frequency. So if you're You know, if you're, uh, you know, seeking external validation, um, you're, you're now like looking at a post that doesn't have enough likes, so you're feeling, uh, you're feeling lack or you're not feeling worthy, uh, and then you're, you're like thinking about what you're gonna do next and you're fearful of what you're gonna do next. You're creating this pattern of energy that creates more thoughts of that same frequency. But if you don't do any of that and you're, you know, do, you know, you're working out or you're on a walk or you're meditating or you're doing something good for yourself and you're becoming present and you're feeling grateful and you're feeling abundant and you're feeling, you know, you're thinking about your life and your family and you're feeling love and you're feeling growth, like, you're gonna have ideas of that same, uh, frequency. And it's like those thoughts versus the other thoughts, they're a whole different experience and a whole different reality. So I think, like, my whole thing is I feel like a lot of people have it backwards and it's counterintuitive. They try to figure out what to do. They don't think about who to be. I think if you focus more on who to be, the things you need to do— you, you go on the path of what you need to do much more naturally. I think that's where— that's why 99% of people don't succeed in what they're doing, because they disregard that fact.

Who do you want to be?

Yeah, you think about who do I— who do I need to be? Who do I need to show up as today to create the things I want to create? Well, I know I need to get up early. I know I need to feel this certain way, and I can make myself feel that way if I have control of my energy. But if my— if I wake up in the morning and I check Instagram, it's like there could be landmines everywhere. I might see a video about war, and now I'm feeling sad and sorrow. Or I might feel— I might see, you know, like, someone who like scammed me in the past posting about all their money, and now I'm like, fuck that guy, right? And it's like any of that stuff can change how I feel. Like, yeah, I try to put up a shield against that. Huh. I love to guard it. I think guarding your energy is like, you know, especially as you have more going on, it's like you really need to put up barriers. So for me, social media, getting rid of it's like been very freeing for me. Wow.

I love that. I love that. Um, like, who do you have to become, right? Like, instead of like, what do you have to do? Yeah, I love that.

Well, there's, there's, there's infinite things you can do. Right? Like, and if you're in a state of like a low energy state, for example, and you're, and you're fearful and you're, you know, you're skeptical, the things you're going to think about to do are, are of that same frequency. You're going to think about like protecting this or being careful on that, or, you know, you're not going to think about the things that are really going to propel you toward your vision, right? But if you're, if you focus on who you need to be and you change the way you feel and you feel grateful and you feel you know, larger than life, and you, you know, you feel proud of yourself, you keep promises to yourself, your self-confidence grows, you're going to think of things that propel you in the direction that you're meant to be on. So, but most people wake up and they're like, what do I need to do today? And they're in this low energy state trying to figure it out. And some people have fun with life and they don't worry about all that other stuff. And in having fun, they have a different energy, and then, you know, they make different kind of moves.

Right.

That's where I think like a lot of people have like— again, I don't think there's any right or wrong way to live life. This is just my personal experience. I love it.

I think that there's a lot of essence to it. Like the— would you like— how would you like transition? Let's say, you know, someone watching this, they are like maybe bad kind of, you know, bad environment, but they're like internally they have this like fire, right? They want a different life. They want to, you know, have better life, better lifestyle, take care of the family, make more money, be in better shape. Like, what would be like on a tactical level, like the, the steps that you would take?

Yeah.

To, to get out of that.

That's a— it's a great question. And it's, it's, it's actually very simple. Number one is remove any victim mentality, right? Like, take— like, set the stage that I take radical accountability for everything in my life, right? The news says, you know, gas is too expensive. Fuck that. The news says groceries are too expensive. Fuck that. The news says politics need to change because— and then maybe my life— fuck that. Nothing outside of me has any influence on me because people attach themselves to to circumstances and then they become the victim. And then it's very easy to say, oh well, it's not my fault, I can't do it. So first step is like, okay, it's all on me, no one else is going to do it for me. Secondly is, is setting some kind of framework or, um, habits that you're going to stick to, right, that give you the opportunity to, to find the path, right? So like, I like to do 75 Hard, you know, we're talking about that. Yeah, because I know I'm doing 2 workouts a day. I know I'm drinking a gallon of water. I know I'm not drinking. I know I'm eating healthy. I know I'm reading. And there's no day that I'm going to skip that, because if I do, I know I got to start back from day 1. And in sticking to habits and disciplines, that little voice inside of you that's judging everything you do starts to feel like the man, or starts to feel worthy, right? It's like, damn, I've done 30 days of this. And not to mention, you know, you're going to read at least 750 pages of books in the process, right? But you start to feel, uh, confident because you're sticking to habits, right? You're— which, which changes you. And right, and the confident version of you versus the, you know, the version that hits the snooze button, you know, they go to the, the lunch and they decide, I probably shouldn't eat that, but I'm gonna eat it anyway. That little voice inside their head's like, what are you doing? Why are you doing that? Like, oh my God, we're being such an asshole right now. Like You start to feel no confidence, right? And there— and then when you walk through life as your fully confident self versus yourself with no confidence, it's a completely different experience, right? You might walk into an interaction or meet people as your confident self and see a clear way that you can add value to them, and it might change things for you. Yeah, but that same you who's not confident, who hears an opportunity, that inner voice is going to say Oh, you're not good enough to add value to that person, or you're not, you're not good enough to do this and you'll never even try. So it's taking radical accountability, setting up frameworks and habits and disciplines and, and checking in and remembering it's, it's about who you need to be more than what you need to do, right? And like listening for that, like learning how to tap into your intuition. But I really think the radical accountability and the frameworks are like the two tactical things. Yeah, those are the tactical things.

I think those are great. Like the, the, the other one, the other one specifically where like, so when you starting out like you, you might not have like a track record, right? You're like, okay, I can take this risk because in the past I have proven to myself that I can do this, this and this. Yeah, right. And so I think like developing that self-confidence and it's, and it's very doable way. Like you said, let's say 75 Hard, like one of those frameworks, like You know, everyone can work out, like even if you're at home, like, I mean, get some stretch, do some push-ups, pull-ups, you know, whatever. Like everyone can do it. Like there's no excuse. And then, or you can go to gym like $20 per month.

Yeah.

And like, but that will build your confidence. That will then reflect another thing. Oh, if I took that. Oh, wow. I actually, you know, kept my word. I actually did that.

Yeah.

Then probably if I take this, if I start a business, I'll figure it out too. Yeah, like, because, you know, now you're building that like bank of like self-confidence.

Yeah, the bank of— that's a great term, the bank of self-confidence.

I just made it up.

I love it.

Yeah, because you could feed it, you could feed it points. It's like deposits.

Yeah, every time you have the, the path where it's like, you know, eat the chocolate cake or don't eat the chocolate cake, or do the workout or don't do the workout, every— everything you stick to and the promise, you're depositing into yourself, right?

And then if you eat the chocolate cake, like, I don't know, like, I don't know if you're the same. Like when, for example, okay, you know, I'm working out, I have— this is my— how many calories, how many macros, like everything. And then I eat it, right? And I know that I shouldn't eat it, but then I feel like shit.

Yeah.

Because I'm beating myself for it.

Yeah.

Right. And it's also like, you know, it's— I mean, I think there's different views on this. Like maybe you shouldn't be like, like, okay, just go for an extra run, like, or burn those calories. But I know that what I just did is not aligned with what I told myself, right? I will do right. And so now there's like internal conflict.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, it's like sticking to, sticking to those promises that you make to yourself is probably like one of the, one of the biggest self-confidence boosters that you can— other— you can, you can then reflect to other areas.

100%. And that's why I think, you know, the framework is like, okay, you have to make the promises first. Because if you don't have a framework or a goal, there's no real right or wrong, right, to make the decision. So you need to know, okay, and it's fine, you know, Saturday is my cheat day, or Sunday, whatever, whatever it is, you're okay with it, but you always make the right decision. And then when you don't make the right— because we're all human, we're all right, none of us are perfect. I fuck up all the time. I think the other concept that's really important is that, okay, I didn't make the right decision. Now my mind has gained control and it's really easy for the next decision to be like, well, fuck, I didn't make that. You know, we'll start next week or we'll, uh, you know, whatever. We'll start, we'll start. Oh, New Year's is only in a month. Like, all right, we'll do it in a month. Now you just lost all the progress you made, right? But if you, if you fuck up and then you, you're like, all right, I'm back on the train.

Yes.

You're kind of where you were. You didn't really lose that much progress. So bouncing back is another like thing to be aware of.

Yeah. So I have my partner is Mark, like the big, big jacked guy, Mark Builds Brands on Instagram. And I was just like observing him, you know, how he operates. He's jacked. Yeah, like he's jacked. He's like, what, 220, 230? Like muscle, like muscular guy. I think I remember him. Yeah. Yeah. He's, he's great and also very like hardworking in all areas of life. And so we'd go to the restaurant and then we would eat and he would like, he would eat like dessert. He would eat like a fucking steak. Like he would eat like probably 1,500, 2,000 calories. But then after, right after that, the fucking guy would go to the gym like 9 PM, like 10 PM. Like he would go to the gym and like work out and like, so he would like over, at least like mentally like overcompensate for what he just you know, what he just ate.

Yeah.

And I think that's the way, like, if you— even if you fuck it up, find a way to kind of like get back on track.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you're going to keep growing, and if you fall off the train, every, every moment or every poor decision you make is, is diminishing your progress of your self-confidence, right? So bounce back as quick as you could. And people associate doing these things with pain. They associate it with like You know, the, the, the thing people will say is, oh, you only live once, like, enjoy your life. It's like, well, you're not going to enjoy your life when you're not confident. You're not going to enjoy your life when you're, when you're, you know, fat and, and, you know, out of shape and feel like shit. Like, yeah, maybe in the moment I'm not getting that direct short-term pleasure that I might be able to have, but it is going to lead me to much more long-term joy. Yeah, the long-term joy comes from that. That's where I am living my life. I'm becoming something that I'm going to be proud of and feel good and be able to have a bigger impact on the world from, right? Like, yeah, sure, you want to go ahead and eat your chocolate cake every night, go right ahead. It's not going to lead you to long-term joy. So that's— I think that's the argument. It's like, well, you got to enjoy life. Sure, then okay, if you want to do it for a month and that's your promise to yourself, no problem. You want to do it for a day? But if you promise yourself something, you really are better off sticking to it. And if you don't know where to start, Figuring out some promises to yourself is a great way.

Yeah. And it's the same, like, I mean, if you think about it, like, it's the same mentality in business, right? Like, let's say you, you're working with someone, you promise them something. If you don't do what you promised, right? Yeah. I mean, that impacts your reputation.

Yeah.

Like, that's— I mean, that's how relationships are ruined, right? Like where people don't deliver on what they say. And it's— I think it's just the mindset, like internal mindset. You start with yourself, but then it also reflects on all areas of business. Because for entrepreneurs that are getting into the business, at some point they'll have to deal with other people.

Right.

Right. And like in order to make business happen. And so just having that mindset of like accountability, first of all to themselves, but then also to other people and, you know, just deliver on what they promise. I think it's— yeah, I mean, it's just mandatory to be in business.

Yeah. It's like, you know, when you, when you do, you know, keep your promises to other people, you build a reputation with them. When you keep your promises to yourself, you build a reputation with yourself, right? It's like an understanding that there's, you know, we're not just like our mind, we're not just one thing. Like, we have a subconscious, we have a conscious mind. Like, there's, there, there's more to us than just one thing. Like, not just our body, not just our mind. So understanding the relationship between how the things internally work, I think, is like— I mean, for it's— it could be the purpose of life is figuring out how to navigate this existence, which is why I love having incredible conversations with people that have walked different paths of life. You know, I had a guy who won the Indy 500. He was an F1 racer.

Oh wow.

He was on 2 weeks ago. Um, I had a, um, a woman, uh, who was the number 1 financial advisor in the world. Wow. Um, and ended up getting sued by the biggest bank in the world. And like It's just my point is people have all these different types of experiences, but the central themes of what they've learned in these lessons, most of them tie back to the things we're talking about.

Hmm.

So the people that haven't yet kind of taken a leap into their potential, right, they've been kind of waiting to— it's like you can learn from other people, you can learn from these frameworks. That's why I love having these types of conversations and understanding other people's views on the world.

Yeah. And also I think another, another one is like looking at yourself as like, you know, people say like, oh, I'm, I don't know, let's say I like sweets or I like, you know, so people have this like beliefs. Oh, you know, I usually like, I like to, I don't know, sleep late. Yeah, right. Like they have all of these like beliefs about themselves.

Right.

And they take it as a truth.

Right.

Right? Like, okay, this is who I am. This is who I am as a person. But like, who you are right now is like version like 1.0 of yourself.

Right?

Right. It's like, you know, we're just chatting on the way, on the way here with, with London about like different like rappers who are like listening like rap music.

Yeah.

And like, let's say take Jay-Z. Yeah. Right. Okay. Jay-Z, you know, was doing well for himself as an artist. Then boom, becomes a producer and boom, becomes a businessman. Yeah, right. And so this is like, what is that? The same Jay-Z that was like 20, 30 years ago? Like the same guy, like kind of like showing off his, you know, the diamonds and cars?

No, right?

Like that's a version like 3.0, 4.0.

Yeah.

So who you are right now is not who you can be. Yeah, you can be version 2.0. Right. Like, and then, you know, how that can happen. Like, for me personally, like, you know, I'm now on the— I was like overweight, like 50, like 40, 50 pounds, like fat. Like, I'm looking at the photos. Jesus Christ. And, you know, now, like, I'm building— like, this is like 2.0 version. Yeah. And then, like, in a few years, like, once I max it out, it'll be 3.0, 4.0. And you just, like, you have to evolve because one thing that you notice, like also we were reflecting on other like artists, like let's say a rap artist, like from, you know, 20, 10, 20, 30 years ago, they haven't evolved. They became like, they were artists back then. They're still artists.

Yeah.

You know, they haven't evolved to become business owners like, or producers. So kind of like next level of success.

Yeah.

Or like Ryan Reynolds, right? Like actor, boom, you know, media company, building his own business, businessman, billionaire now.

Right.

Right. So it's like it's ascension, like it's— and I think that's, that's the whole beauty of life that like, like, and also maybe it's not like it's also one of the reasons why people don't, don't do shit because they think that, that that's who they are.

Right.

Right. Like that's kind of the capacity of their limits.

Yeah.

And if they try to do anything more than that, it's like they're all subconscious, like, hey.

Yeah.

Like, that's not you. Like, I mean, you've never done this. Like, and so they kind of like have this like self-talk that's not productive, but it's not who they are. Like their 2.0 version can do all of this shit, no problem.

Right, right.

But they have to prove themselves that they can do that 2.0. Like for me, it's a body, like the workouts, like, and just being like in a better shape because then like, okay, wow, shit, if I promise to myself I'll actually go to the gym and I'll eat well, I'll not eat like bad food, then oh wow, if I can do that, then I can do all the other things. That's my 2.0 version. Like my 2.0 version is like a lot more capable than 1.0 version.

Right.

And, and just like constant evolution throughout life because I mean, that's what the life is. I mean, we all die at the end, right? But it's like at what stage we die.

If you're not growing, you're dying, right? You're not growing and you're not fulfilled. And the only way to grow is, like you said, the 2.0 version. I think the surest way to not make progress is to believe the things inside of you that tell you you are something certain. So I am— oh, I'm the fat guy. Yeah, okay, you're going to be.

Yeah.

Oh, I'm, you know, I, I'm a night owl. Yeah, okay, yeah, you're going to be. But everyone has it inside of them to realize that I'm none of those things. All I am really, truly is my awareness of this existence, and what is on the outside can be anything I want it to be. But when you believe the voice inside of your head that tells you those things That's the surest way to avoid the possibility of progressing towards your potential.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, what a, uh, what an incredible topic to, uh, to dive deep down. It's, uh, it's one of those things that you have a conversation about it, you understand it, listeners understand it, but then we just go back into our old ways and we— and that's why I think giving yourself the solitude, the space to remember these things, right? Because it's great when you're in the moment, but then life comes back and you go back in your old patterns and you're on Instagram. Next thing you know, you're like, oh fuck, I wasn't being that way at all. It's like you have to give yourself the space to re-remember the lessons you learned every day, really, because you wake up in the morning, you have the same things going on. It's like you got to give yourself the space to be like, okay, that's That's what makes sense. I can be my 2.0 version. You got to give yourself the space to remember those things, right?

And even like putting those on paper.

Yeah.

Like, and, you know, maybe some affirmations, you know, I am keeping the word to myself. Yeah, I am, you know, a fit person and just like reinforce because if there is no— yeah, if there is limited, limited amount in that bank of, you know, self-confidence, then you have to like fill it out like with your words, kind of like believe that, then do every day something that feels more deposit in that.

Yeah.

And, um, and just build that out.

100%. I think there's, uh, unlimited tools and tactics and things people can do, um, but just shining the awareness on this side of life when everyone else is focused on the what do I need to do as opposed to who do I need to be, like there's tons of of ways that you can become. But just being aware that this part of life is the part that everything else stems from, right, is a big awakening for a lot of people, especially young people, especially people that haven't yet had a lot of these painful experiences or great experiences and have learned these things. So I think this conversation went in an incredible direction. Um, thoroughly enjoyed it. Really appreciate the time, uh, the insight, and it's very cool to hear your journey and everything you've learned along the way.

Thank you, my man. Thank you so much for inviting me, and, uh, it's been great, tremendous. And I think, you know, also, like, I mean, the things we shared could be really valuable to people.

They apply them 100%. Yeah, man, I very much enjoyed it. Thank you so much, Alex.

Thank you, Jared.

Alrighty.