Steve Tan on the Paramount of Execution, Managing the Day, and the Distractions of Life.

You always seem to be winning. There's people that try so hard and they never break through.

People see the winning on the outside, but there's also a lot of failures on the inside. Vision is cheap without execution. That was kind of like a big realization of like, hey, don't fuck around.

Most people want to have things, but they're not the person they need to be to have those things. Focus on who you need to be, what you need to feel like.

When you lose everything, you kind of lose everything.

And you look younger now.

Thank you, bro.

Than you did 8 years ago. What's the secret? Are you in the biohacking stuff at all? Yeah, I think so.

I think just trying to get myself in a better health fitness level. I think when you saw me, I was kind of fat, right?

Yeah. I wouldn't say fat. Maybe a little chubby.

Yeah. I was kind of overweight when we first met, yeah.

Well, what's the health situation like in Malaysia? That's where you live, right?

I moved to Malaysia from Singapore.

Oh, you were in Singapore?

Yeah, yeah, I'm based in Singapore previously. Oh, okay, okay. So I kind of moved out to Malaysia like a year ago.

Oh, just a year? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kind of like when you just moved to Palm Beach. Yeah.

Wait, did you grow up in Singapore?

Yeah, it is a good country for sure, for investments, business, and whatnot. Yeah, but for living, probably I would say I'll beg to differ, like, you know, if it's for living.

Yeah. What's it like in Malaysia?

Malaysia is a little bit like San Francisco, laid back, a little bit chill, more chill, slower pace. Singapore's like fast, right? Yeah. Fast, competitive, like I think when you get to a certain stage, you just want to be a little bit more chill, like, right? So I think Malaysia offers that for me. So I think it's not very different in terms of culture because Singapore used to be part of Malaysia a long time ago until we got kicked out by Malaysia. So Singapore declared independence, kind of a bit of history, but like the culture is very similar, right? Like the people there, like you have multiracial, like, people across both Singapore and Malaysia. So it's It's not really different.

I don't hear about many people moving to Malaysia. Yeah, like, you know, people that move from the US, they go to Thailand, you know, Singapore. Yeah, or, you know, or the Middle East or something like that. But not many people are going to Malaysia, I feel like. Yeah, are there a lot of American entrepreneurs there?

Yeah, it's not a cool spot yet because a lot of people don't know the benefits of moving there. Like, it's definitely way more convenient than, like, you know, for business and whatnot. For me, like, business is usually I'll fly into Singapore and But if it's like anything else, I'll just like meet within my proximity. So I have my kind of my own bubble in KL, so I wouldn't go outside of this zone.

Yeah.

So all of my meetings, my dinners, everything would be around like 10 minutes from my house.

So do you have friends and family in Malaysia?

Yeah, I do. Like, um, yeah, my brother moved out together.

Oh, you guys live together? Yeah.

So we're kind of testing out a spot together. So when everything's okay, we're just gonna like, you know, get our own spots.

That's cool.

Yeah.

Is the cost of living there cheaper?

Oh, so much cheaper than Singapore. At least like 50% off.

Really? Well, then what about in the US? Like, Singapore is pretty expensive, no?

Singapore and US— Singapore is probably more expensive than US for some stuff, and for like Uber and all this stuff, definitely US more expensive. But for like, you know, cars, house, Singapore is definitely way more.

Is it?

Yeah, yeah.

Like, than New York City or—

Yeah, like, I mean, the cars itself is 3 times more expensive in US. Just the cars itself, right? The house itself, of course, you have depending on like locations, right?

Yeah.

But I think like for the top, top-end apartments, I think it's pretty much the same. Gotcha.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you lived anywhere else besides Singapore and Malaysia now? Yeah, I've—

Before I moved back to Singapore, I was in China for 10 years.

Oh, were you?

Yeah, that was when I started doing my, kind of like my, all my e-com stuff back in 2000.

Was that the trick for you? Oh, you guys got in very early in that space.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's funny because like, you guys had your whole community and you guys were always like the biggest dropshippers, you and your brother.

Thank you.

I got into that space and it was like, you got, you always seem to be winning in whatever venture you're in.

Thank you.

So I wanted to kind of dive into that a little bit. And like, there's some people that kind of always win, and there's some people that just can't seem to figure it out.

You know?

It's like there's people that try so hard and they never break through, or they never succeed, or they kind of go through the same cycles in life. And then there's other people that whatever they touch turns to gold, you could say, or they get lucky all the time. What's kind of your philosophy on creation, on creating businesses, on building things?

I think there's a lot of factors, right? I think like people see the winners, winning on the outside, but there's also a lot of failures on the inside, right? There's a lot of things that— a lot of startups that I created, a lot of projects that I created also failed. But it's kind of like the mindset about like how you approach failures, right? All like all these learning lessons. And I feel if you go through like a project and it fails, it's not like fail, fail. There are a lot of like good things you can get out of it, right? There's a lot of lessons that's here to serve you, for you to level up. But I think a lot of entrepreneurs, because there's so much pain and failure— so much, right? There's so much pain and trauma baggage or betrayals or just business overall just suck, right? Yeah. I think it's like kind of like the revealing process and integrating all those lessons is kind of like very, very key for me. So I think I've learned a lot, humbled a lot, gone through a lot of shit, bad partnerships, scams, and all these bad investments. And I think overall, just kind of looking at all these lessons and being able to take it and just continuing with enthusiasm and like, uh, growth and building new stuff.

Yeah. So it's like when you're going through these things, there's really, you can learn two different ways in my opinion. You can either learn through watching videos or reading books or listening to podcasts, or you can learn through experience. And when you're doing things, 90% of the time, at least for me, starting businesses, it feels like 90% of the time is like, we're in the shit, and like 10% of the time feels really good. But those lessons you get from the experience, I think are like thousands of times more potent and powerful than what you can read or learn from video.

Oh, 100%. Yeah, I think the experience part is kind of like the key thing, right? I mean, a lot of people just know how to— I mean, there's like textbook smart versus execution, right?

Yeah.

I mean, anybody could have like a vision of how they want it, but it's like vision is cheap without execution.

Yeah, and we're very complex beings. There's emotions to us, there's thought patterns, there's a whole bunch of stuff that happens when you throw yourself into a situation.

Oh, 100%.

And you learn about yourself in a sense, right? It's like not about, it's not like, oh, what do I need to do to succeed? It's like, who do I need to be? And how do I manage myself? Do you find a correlation between like your energy or how you feel versus the success that you create?

I think success came pretty fast, right? Especially after we kind of got back into the space after so long. So from 2006 when I first started to 2015 when I lost everything, there was kind of like a big realization of like, hey, don't fuck around. Like there's not a lot of like all in placed and kind of like can build back up again. Because a lot of people, when you go all in, you lose it, it's going to be rough, right? So when we got back and kind of, of course, all the success kind of got into my head a little bit, was kind of a little bit cocky, arrogant, like, and you got humbled with a lot of things, right? So that's when I think really grows and pushes you. But if you don't, if you don't reflect and integrate all those lessons, you're gonna still continue with like high ego, you know. You would, you wouldn't realize, your awareness level would be kind of low, much lower, right, right? And your, your your fluctuations in your emotions would also be affected, affect how you feel and grow as a person. So I think what you said just now is very true. Like, you know, you need to know who you want to be, but a lot of people go like, they go towards the last part, you know.

They want—

they only know what they want to have, right? But they don't know who they have to be or become in order to have those things. They— and of course, be, do, and have, right? You have to become who you want to be, right? Then you have to do the things that ensure those success to get what you want to have.

So I think like people just kind of get everything kind of like, yeah, and I think the problem is that like you said, most people want to have things, but they're not the person they need to be to have those things. And so they're waiting to get those things to feel the way they need to feel to be the person they need to be. So they have it backwards. Yeah, yeah, most people spend their whole lives chasing the things. Some people get lucky, right, and then they get the things, but most people spend their whole lives chasing it. Yeah, I realized early on it's about focus on who you need to be, what you need to feel like, and then you'll get the things that you want to have. If you want to get a big house or, you know, get the cars, whatever the material items you want, you have to feel abundant. You have to feel like the person that has those things already. When you're operating from a space of scarcity and fear and lack and, oh, I need those things, I need those things, you just get more of that need.

Oh yeah, definitely. So on point, bro.

Yeah. So you kind of went through a crazy journey. So how did you lose everything in 2015?

Oh, there was kind of two back-to-back startups that I did. Like, the first one was a smartwatch that I did. Okay. I forgot which year was that. I think '12 or '13, right? And I kind of go all in, and like, I really had a bad partnership with a partner who's supposed to take care of all the R&D, the ODM manufacturing, all that stuff. Didn't turn out so well, but as the CEO, you have to take the blame, right? So after that, I switched on to another hardware startup again, kind of like a kind of like an Apple tag.

Okay.

Yeah, but it didn't turn out so well because we were running super tight on cash flow, so that kind of cash flow kind of killed me with inventory as well. So that was kind of like, you know, before, like, my mentality was like, you know, when you study all these books and everything's like all-in mindset, right?

Right.

But the time when you go all in, you have no backup plans. That was kind of what fucked me up, like, essentially, because I was so deep into, like, the startup. And when you lose everything, you kind of lose everything. Yeah, it was kind of rough.

But you had many years of a lot of success in e-commerce and dropshipping. So did you guys Do you guys roll a lot of that into these startups?

Yeah, because like, you know, when I started in 2006, e-com wasn't cool. Even doing online business wasn't cool. You feel like there was a lot of shame in running dropshipping or digital businesses when I got started. Especially in Asia, right? There's not a lot of events, meetups, and all that stuff when I got started. And there was always like, an infatuation with like, oh, you only can be successful if you have a real startup, you raise a bunch of funds, you know, like legitimacy, right? So that was kind of what I was chasing after. Like, I think it was an infatuation at the point of time. Yeah, right. But if I can kind of go back in time, I would like kind of stick to my path, like fucking scale that shit, right?

The thing is the thing.

Yeah, so rolled everything to startups because I was kind of chasing the sort of American dream, American startup kind of thing, right, in Asia. And it didn't turn out so well, right? It didn't turn out so well. Learned a lot of lessons there that you can make a lot of money without investors too.

Right.

Right, so that was kind of like what got me thinking. But when you lose everything, it was kind of hard, you know, like having a lot of money to like absolutely zero. It was rough. It was kind of rough. Yeah, I was so poor that I can't even pay my parking tickets.

I've been there, bro. When I was in my early 20s, my first career, I used to throw concerts. And it did really well. I threw the world's largest foam party. I don't know if you know about that, back when I was in my early 20s.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, it's called Electric Flurry. It's still on YouTube. You can like see the videos. And at 21, I made my first million dollars. And I grew up like single mom, only child. So I was like on top of the world living in like, you know, a penthouse in Miami. And then I lost everything when I was 22 on a show. We booked this big arena. We didn't sell enough tickets. And then on top of that, we ended up getting sued. And I was living back with my mom, and it was like this version of myself that I had thought I was versus my reality of where I was in life. There's a lot of separation which caused a lot of pain, a lot of anxiety. I think the only way out of that is to let go and is to start working on yourself and start changing your energy to change your circumstances. I mean, so when you kind of went down the, you know, when you lost things and you were in a tough place place, what did you do to rebound? Or how did you change the way you work?

I think in 2015 was kind of rough. I think I feel like a total loser. Like, you know, there's a lot of negative voices in your mind. Oh, you're not cut out to be an entrepreneur. You're a loser. You lost everything. Like, you know, I was just like, I was kind of giving up at that point of time. So I kind of moved back to Singapore without telling my mom because I just want to get out of entrepreneurship. Right. So I moved back and I was planning to do forex. Really? Yeah, forex trading. I was trading forex for a couple of months. Yeah. Right? And there was just a lot of like, I could make money with low trades, small trades. But when you start doing bigger trades, you lose because the biggest enemy is yourself. Yeah, your emotions. So it was a lucky, I would say it was kind of like a good lucky time. One of my friends was kind of like hanging out because I was just locking out myself in a small-ass room. Like in Singapore, kind of like at the furthest outskirts of Singapore. Yeah. Whereby I could get a room for like $700 a month, $600, $700, bro. It's a single room with everything inside. You have your washing machine, you have your dryer, your everything, your bed, your toilet, everything in one.

It's just one room.

It's just one room, bro. It's kind of like cool to kind of reflect and think back about it. Like, so I have that picture in my favorites, right?

I just remind myself like, you've been through this shit.

So my friend told me like, hey, like, it could potentially take you 10 years to become really good at forex. Oh wow, I was like, a lot of time. I don't have 10 years.

Yeah, right.

Yeah. I mean, at where I am right now, I don't have 10 years to work on a business that's— that has so much uncertainty, right, for long term. So that was like not a path that I'm empowered, right? So I said, why don't you And he told me something, why don't you go back into e-com? Yeah. And that, even though it's such a simple kind of sentence, like it just made me realize like, oh shit, what the fuck am I doing?

I don't wanna do that.

So I packed my bags, I canceled the lease, fuck you to the landlord, who kind of bullies me. Like he was like, because you're fucking poor, right? The people that rent those places are kind of like broke.

Yeah, they don't care about you.

They don't give a shit. They were kind of like rough. Right. Yeah, so I was like, there was a lot of like emotions and I packed my bags and I flew back to China. The next day, and I knew exactly what I'm gonna do. So I was kinda like, you know, I've joined a lot of groups, of course studied a lot of courses before I got back in, but I realized nothing changed a lot. There's just different kind of ads. Right. Yeah, it's just like—

Fundamentals are the same.

Even better, because last time you only have right-hand side ads versus now you have newsfeed, all these different ads. So I feel, oh, nothing's changed a lot, right? And I think a lot of the connections and resources that I've built since the early days, like 2008, 2010, Worked out super well, so we were able to get a lot of credit from Facebook, we were able to get a lot of credit from my suppliers, my fulfillment company. So the funny thing was like, what goes around comes around, right? So when I started scaling in 2008, I met with a fulfillment company in Shanghai, and they were kinda doing all my shipments there. And he was like, he was so fascinated, where were you getting all these sales and everything? And I was his first pot of gold for this guy, for this supplier. Right? So he made a lot of money with me.

Yeah.

And I kinda just disappeared because I was doing all my startups, right? Yeah. Long story short, he became a really big supplier, like, you know, in 2015, '16. He was big, right? So I told him my story and he was like, "Oh my God, I didn't know where you went. I really wanna work together with you." And I told him, like, you know, I'm in a bad spot. Right. So he's like, "No worries, I'll support you with $1 million in credit." Wow. Yeah, like, no collaboration, no nothing. It's just because he trusts me so much. So that was like, that was how we did our first million dollars within 30 days from getting back into the States.

Dude, it just goes to show you that relationships are so key.

Yeah.

When you're a good person.

Yeah.

So like you meet people and from a place of scarcity and like needing things, you're like, oh, what can I get out of this person?

Yes.

But if you shift to, I'm just gonna be the best version of myself and something good will happen at some point when it's meant to happen. It always happens that way.

Yeah.

Like with your supplier, that's such a great example of that. When you needed it, it came around and it helped you out. So when I met you, you guys had already kind of gotten back into the game and have grown a lot, which was in 2018. So what kind of happened between 2015 and 2018?

Just continuously. Just went all in. Yeah, all in. So that was when Evan started joining me.

Oh, okay. So it was just you before that.

Yeah, just me. So Evan graduated from college.

I put you guys together because I met you guys at the same time, so I say you guys all the time. Totally.

Last time we were having a podcast, he was like, "Damn, keep me updated." He said hi.

Nice, nice.

So Evan graduated, so he was supposed to join McKinsey, or some marketing firm. I was like, "Why join them when you have a brother who's doing e-com and marketing?" So he kind of took the leap of faith and joined me at my lowest point in life. So we kind of did the whole dropshipping together, and he ran a lot of the research and scaling of ads.

What was the big, I try to stay away from material things, but I am really curious, like, what was the biggest revenue day you guys had dropshipping?

Biggest revenue month per month was probably $8 million. Damn, that's like, we don't really track it per day because something fluctuates, right? Per month, yeah, everything combines probably $8, yeah, $8, $9. Yeah, that's kind of like on like, you know, special days like Black Friday.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. But it's still incredible.

Yeah.

I've always heard since I got into e-commerce and dropshipping, oh, this model is dead, dropshipping doesn't work anymore. I've been hearing that for like 8 years now. Yeah, it's like nothing—

it—

nothing's dead. You just have to keep up with the time.

I mean, the demand is still there, right? The demand's always there. It's all about how—

like, how do you do it?

Exactly, right? So a lot of people— the people that complain that it's dead is usually the people that couldn't get it to work, right? Yeah.

And you'd be shocked what happens when you just try some new things. It's like people are always looking externally for the answers, asking, going in these groups, these courses, which is great. You can go learn, you can go network, maybe you'll get a good idea. But most of my biggest wins came from like trying things, taking some time to reflect, or taking some time to like, you know, let everything kind of compute in my head, and then trying things again, and then like a bright idea comes up, and it's like, holy shit, this scaled so fast.

I think a lot of people just kind of give up too easily, right? Like it's kind of like how they approach in life on how, like if they don't figure out their programming or how they approach things when they're faced with challenges, they would just give up, right? It's kind of, it's like sometimes you're so close to digging your first pot of gold, but they're just kind of like, oh, it's done. You know, like, it's sad too, right? To kind of see like people who are so close to success.

Yeah, I got to see a lot of those people doing the coaching. Yeah, I was doing that for a while. And it comes down to people's experiences growing up create beliefs about life. Like, for example, if you're in a, you know, middle class, lower class family that makes $75,000 a year, you know, your reality is, oh, you make $75,000 a year. You know, there are people doing these big things, but, you know, and I know it's possible, but subconsciously I don't think it's possible for me. But if you just keep trying things, eventually something happens that's greater than your beliefs and you break through. And now you have new standards. And now it's like, that's like when I got started, it was like when I was making $250 a day, I was like, oh, that's, that's good enough to live. And then I had my first $1,000. I'm like, oh, $250 sucks, $1,000 is good enough. And then it, you know, $10,000 and $50,000, and like your standards just keep breaking. Yes, but you have to just keep trying until something outperforms them. But like you said, people give up too early. Why do you think that? Why do you think people give up so easily?

I think it's their upbringing, as you mentioned, like, um, the typical approach and patterns that they have been so much indoctrinated with, how like they approach life in general.

Yeah.

And I think a lot of times they don't really know what they want, right? Like, they don't have like a clear clarity. Oh, they're just gonna try it out, right? Yeah. Like, when you try it out, you're not putting your all in, right? You're not giving it the sufficient attention and on that this business requires. People think like dropshipping is so easy. Yeah, it's easy to start. Yeah, but you're like, whenever something's easy there, that also means you're facing a lot of competition, right? So if you don't— if people who are putting in so much time and effort compared to you, when you're like slacking and not doing product research, you don't test sufficient ads, you don't know shit what you're doing, or you don't even reflect what went well and what didn't go so well, you're gonna be stuck in the same circle. Like, you're gonna stop there. And it's unfortunate, but that's kind of like how the world is, right? A lot of people like— I mean, even in the class, right, in typical education, there's gonna be a top 50% and the bottom 50% with the same teacher, right? So like in this case, who are gonna blame? Are you gonna blame the teacher? Are you gonna blame like the student who's stupid, right? In this case, right? Or is it— or maybe the person's not stupid, he's just not ready for like all the wealth that he's gonna attract through those businesses. Because I've seen a lot of people so close, they're smart. Yeah, it's just that they lack the consistency, right? It's all about like, no, you don't know what you're trying to do and you lack clarity, there's no motivation, right? You're just gonna, okay, like, it sucks. You just get on with your day. All right, no sales or negative ROAS. They just get, they just get affected with all these emotions and they don't know subconsciously affects them, right down. It affects your emotions, it affects your motivation. Yeah.

And yeah, it just validates your subconscious beliefs.

Exactly.

I knew that wasn't gonna work. Yeah, yeah, just looking for one excuse.

So, because like with Capital Club, we see a lot of like newbies, right? We see a lot of people trying to get into the space, and the reason why I feel like it's so empowering, because like if I started out, if in 2008 I had this kind of community, I know I could scale infinitely. But at the point of time, my awareness level is like, okay, great, $100K a month net profit, $200K a month, that's fucking amazing, because I came from no money. So like that $100K, $200K makes you feel like you're already like top level. But you don't know there's people doing $1 million a month, $2 million a month, right? Even when we started doing those numbers, we were like, oh my God, like, you know, anybody can do this.

Right?

So it's all about the mindset and mentality, especially when you're scaling. Yeah. Right, 0 to 1 is definitely hard, but 1 to 2, it's all about systems, the teams, the infrastructure that you have that allows you to scale. So yeah, I think that's kinda like our journey and looking forward to kinda see how we can scale more.

Yeah, when I first scaled, like when my first dropshipping business took off, it went from like, doing about $1,000 a day in revenue to doing about $50,000 a day in revenue in 5 days. Yeah, it literally was like overnight. Yeah, right. There's a lot of work that went into it, but it was overnight. And then my subconscious belief crept back in. It was like, well, this is too good to be true. This can't last forever. So like, thank you for this, but I know it's not gonna last. And then it lasted a week, then it lasted 2 weeks. I'm like, when's this gonna stop? Maybe I should invest my time in building a system and building infrastructure. And that went on for years. But it's like you're consistently outperforming your beliefs. You're consistently proving to yourself that things are possible. And I think it's never-ending, right? It's like you have to learn to just love the journey because you get to one level, you want to get to another level. There's never an end to the journey, right? I mean, so where's your big vision? Where do you want to go? Like, what's your—

I think I realized that building is very passionate for me. I love building new projects, right? And of course, like, as we started scaling our personal brand back in those days, I realized that probably building my personal brand is not like super scalable, right? Which is why I started investing into ecosystem plays, like things that's like aligned with— because I did a lot of random shit investments like back in those days, and all of them lost money, right? Same. So eventually I realized I have to invest in things that I do understand, right? For example, like an agency, like, um, education, software as a business, right? All these different kind of like businesses that it's relevant to e-commerce because I really know, so that makes my investment better. And like, I know exactly like how is it gonna complement or supercharge like the whole ecosystem. And that's when like a lot of those investments started to pay out. Yeah. Yeah.

I want to pivot a little bit because I feel like you and I have had similar journeys. We've been in the same space, had a lot of ups and downs.

Similar background too. Yeah.

I didn't realize that you came— for whatever reason, I thought you guys came from lots of wealth.

No, single parent family as well. My mom single-handedly brought me and Evan up. So a lot of—

Is that your only sibling, Evan?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, so it was kind of rough like upbringing, like, you know, that no dad around. And I was kind of doing a lot of reflection this trip in US. I was like, oh wow, like how life would turn out differently, like if I have like a dad, right? But in a sense, but because of the personal development and because of the circumstance of your upbringing, and if you're able to see how all this journey served you to become who you are right now, that's gonna be super powerful. So I have a lot of forgiveness for my dad, super cool with him right now. And I think it's all those baggage that you've been carrying along or around your life. I mean, every entrepreneur would go through shit. Like, you know, it's just whether people know it or not. There's a lot of things deep down that's holding you back subconsciously. It can be pain, baggage, trauma, shame, guilt, whatever, right? All these things happens. At every stage in time. And as I pursue my personal development, I realize that I have a lot of BS holding me back. A lot of programming, a lot of limiting beliefs that's kinda holding you back. And as I go through all that, I realize the person that I've become is because of how I was brought up. And all these challenges and all these lessons are here to serve you to become the best version of yourself. So I think I realized kinda like, my vision for myself is to experience life to the fullest. I think it's all about experience. And I kinda got a good understanding on why we're here, on earth, right? And I believe that like there's a lot of like intentional signals to guide me to where I am today.

Yeah, right.

So yeah, really inspired to kind of build more stuff that's going to be not just for the money, but more so like the ikigai. You kind of get really good, um, synergy between what you're passionate about and what, what, what, whatever you're building there is going to also pay you at the same time. It's also going to help a lot of people, right? So those Those are the kind of projects I'm looking for. And of course scalability is something I'm really passionate about. Like we want things that can scale infinitely high. Right, and of course those experience that came from dropshipping applies to all the businesses that I get involved with, right? So we did about 2 billion content impressions for Capital Club last year. Yeah, so Evan built the team for that. So we had really good infrastructure to kinda like scale content for Luke and Capital Club. Right, and that really helped build the brand for like whatever we're trying to continue building for Capital Pop.

Yeah, it's like you can look at your life in a snapshot and you can feel so grateful for all the moments that led you to where you are. But when you're in the individual moments, sometimes it's really hard to remember that.

Yes, which is why it's always good to have some time off, right? Like really just a phone detox, like a social media detox. Because there's so much demands in our life, family, friends, clients, customers, business. You don't really have time to really think for yourself, to be. Yeah, like the thing here is like whatever you're working on should all goes back to like yourself, right? In some ways, if it— if you don't— if you're not able to identify the connection there, then a lot of things is kind of pointless, right?

Yeah, people think they always need to be doing something. Yeah, but I find that I get my biggest breakthroughs and my biggest ideas and my biggest realizations when I'm doing nothing. When I go out, get off my phone, go on a walk, It's like I have this sense of like ambient anxiety. I'm like, I don't know where it's really coming from. And it's like, I need to give myself a break. And it's like, oh, just bubble. It's like, oh, I just, all I need to do is fix this relationship or send this email or something pops up. But when you're constantly stimulated, which is we all are, I mean, we have a, we have a device that people can get your attention at any moment, any time of the day.

That's the crazy thing about it, right?

We're not programmed to be that way. So I think like having an intentional, like no device day once a week, like I do that probably probably 2 or 3 days a month on Saturday or Sunday. I'll just have no phone.

That's really good habit.

Yeah, I mean, but it's like when I don't have my— I'm like, where's my phone? And it's like my— I'm just— but after that day, the next day I feel so recharged. And it's like people feel tired or sick or whatever, and they're like, oh, it must be my nutrition, it must be what I'm eating. Yeah, of course that affects it. But have you ever thought maybe it's because all of your energy is like thinking about this, thinking about that, thinking about this problem, thinking about this person, answering that all these things going on. Yeah, I believe creation comes from within. I think it's when you can let go of that, you bring your energy back to your center, you can create anything from there. But most people have just put their energy everywhere.

Yes.

And it's like bringing it back is where you can tap into— you said you get those little signals, right? I like to call it intuition.

Yes.

And it's like being able to identify the difference between your, your mind and your intuition. There's different words for this stuff. People call your mind or ego, you call your intuition or your soul. There's two parts of us, and most people live 99% in this part, in the mind and the ego. It's like when you can bring some of that energy back to your truth, your soul, your intuition, and you're guided, it's like maybe you're not doing as many things, but you're making way more progress towards where you're supposed to go.

I totally agree, bro. Yeah.

Have you went through some of that kind of stuff?

For sure. I think A lot of those lessons actually helped brought me more clarity. And there was like, of course I'm kind of like, I think I'm very lucky to have best friends. They're all very focused on personal development and growth. So they kind of guided. So I was kind of feeling like a lack, even though I have a lot of money at that point of time, I feel like something's missing, right? And I can't explain it. So it's as good, I felt like, oh, maybe I need to make more money. There was a solution, right? So I think as I started hanging out with all these friends, they started telling, No, it's all about you, right? And they say I'm just kind of kicking the can of worms down the stairs because like you're not focusing on the root cause of the problem, right? So as I started pursuing that, I realized, oh my god, there's so much more to life than just money. Yeah, right. Because like, as the kind of like, you know, like online KOLs or whatever we call it, it's all about getting more attention, right? And how do you convert all this attention to something that's gonna be meaningful and useful for yourself? It's kind of like something that I've kind of debated a long time ago. So eventually I kind of like stopped being more public. You know, I don't do podcasts, I don't, I don't go to events and all that stuff. Just kind of really trying to like focus the energy on myself to really identifying what's my next path in life and journey. What's beyond just business, right? Who do I want to be on this time and how do I want to like, you know, impact people around me that's like really my tight close friends or friends, personal friends, business and whatnot? Because I felt there's a lot of things that could have been done much better. You know, like if you've known all these different things that we could focus on ourselves, self-love, right? And especially like if you come from like a single-parent family, there's a lot of lack of self-love for yourself because you need to grow up fast, right? You grow up fast, you become an adult fast, you need to support your mom, your family. And there's a lot of times where you focus a lot, so much on others, you forget about yourself. Yeah, that's kind of like what I've been through, right? And I realized that a lot of self, a lot of the The lack of feeling comes from the upbringing. Yeah, and if you are able to tie all this together and you know exactly what's affecting you, you'll be able to level up and break through from it.

Yeah, when you love yourself, you do things for yourself that yourself wants you to do, like get up early or go for a run in the morning or go to the gym or eat the healthy food or whatever it is. There's like, there's a part of you that knows you need to do something, and then there's your mind that convinces you not to do it because they want to do something impulsive or something that gives you an immediate dopamine hit. Yes, I think it's like replacing those with these is like, is the solution.

But the thing here is like, it's personal development. It's not sexy, right? Yeah, it's not as sexy as like, oh, scaling $10,000 per day, like $50,000 screenshots and all these different kind of things. There's just so much illusion out there. Yeah, there's so much, like, it's just crazy, especially when it comes to US. There's so much bots here. There's so much programming. Yeah, I'm not just US, but everywhere, right? Everywhere. But it's, that's kind of how system works, right?

I think we both went through that, right? Like the like I used to post my Lamborghini and like my things and like, and I thought that was the way you're supposed to do it. It's like I need validation from other people to tell me how cool I am.

Significance, right? You need to feel important and all these different kind of like things.

Yeah, and I also went on like a hiatus from going to events, from social media, and just focused on myself. And now that I have a family, it's like that is the root of my life.

Yes.

Nothing else really matters. And when you have that, it's like I don't need anything else.

Yeah.

Having something like that is just It's so powerful. Yeah, I went through the same thing. It was like, I need people that I grew up with to validate me. Like, I need my friends and family to see these things. And it's like, it's not about the things. Yeah, it's like, just be true to yourself. Keep promises to yourself.

Yes, because like, um, so when I kind of got my Lamborghini, I drove it to show my dad. Yeah, and he was— he wasn't impressed.

Really?

Yeah, he was like, okay, whatever. Yeah, you know, so it kind of like made me feel even worse. Yeah, like, like What I'm trying to— like, you're trying to seek validation.

That's so fun. I did the same thing. I called— I bought this. First of all, I had no intention of buying a Lamborghini, but I'd made all this money very quickly, and I went to this car dealership, and I walked out with one that day. And I remember I called my mom. I was so excited. I'm like, I finally got the Lambo. I'm finally like legit now. And I called my mom, and she's like, she's like, what are you crazy? Why would you spend that much money on a car? I'm like, All right, I'm getting off the phone with you now. Like, buzzkill. I was seeking validation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And but the problem is we learn this lesson through experience, but most people never get the Lamborghini. Yeah, so they're chasing it their whole lives.

Exactly. And the moment sometimes you get it, you realize, shit, this is not what I'm chasing after. That's the worst feeling and emotion that you're gonna get.

But it's a necessary feeling and emotion to propel you to the next level.

It's there to like recalibrate you so that you're more balanced. With your perception.

Well, it goes back to, you know, someone could be listening to this and say, I understand what they're saying. When you go through it, the emotions, the feeling, the being in that moment teaches you such a deep lesson in life. It teaches you there's more to life.

Yeah.

I want to know a bit more about your life philosophy. You know, I know we got on the elevator, you said you went and did an ayahuasca journey. I love that. I've done some plant medicine journeys myself. I want to hear kind of your philosophy on life that you've You know, you can kind of go in any direction you want.

I felt I was kind of reborn in some ways, especially after the trip. Like, um, definitely very more— I think a lot more clarity, right? A lot more clarity on why we're here on Earth, right? I think that's kind of like the biggest, um, biggest clarity for me. Yeah, right. So I kind of understood in some ways my interpretation that we're all one. Yeah, we're all forms of one. Yes, like we're all connected. Connected. Yeah, like different human beings, we're all connected in different ways. It's just that we don't know, right? Right. And we're all here, we chose to be here, we chose to come to Earth. Yeah, like on our own willing terms to come here to experience life, right? To really come here to have fun, have joy, to experience all forms. Obviously everyone, everybody that comes here have different forms of, uh, experience, but I think for like majority of people, they're here to experience life, right? Like, and of course, once you experience life and you go through enlightenment in some ways, you go back to the one. Yeah, right, right. So that's kind of like—

yeah, 100%. I had the same exact realization. It's like we're all part of the same creation. Yeah, we're all part of the same thing. The only thing that separates us is our minds. Yeah, but other than that, we're part of the same thing.

Yes.

And if you're here for a certain period of time and then your life's over and you're not taking anything with you, you're not getting a trophy. Yeah, I died and this is where I ended up. It's when you realize it's all about experiencing life, you realize that you can let go of a lot of the things that cause you stress and worry and pain. Yeah. And then it's, it's a whole cycle because once you let go of that, you bring your power back to you.

Yes.

And when you bring your power back to you, you create more. Then when you create more, you get more stress and problems, and then you let go and you bring your power back to you and you create more. It's like a never-ending cycle.

Yeah. So I think what early, early on, on my entrepreneurship, I kind of like me and Evan, we always talk about like, oh, if we make X amount of money, we're just gonna fuck off. You know, like that's the term. But as I was like, there was one night I realized like, I told Evan like, why do you wanna fuck off when you're building something that you're truly passionate about, right? Like you would never wanna let go of something that's fun, that's play, right? So that was kinda like a different perspective for me because I was just like all after money at a point of time. So whatever I'm building right now, new projects, new partnerships. It's all about like, you know, it's all for long term, right? If it's not for long term, those kind of like, you know, few million kind of things, that doesn't really like make, make it fun anymore, you know? Like, yeah, it's all about the kind of people you're working with, the vision of the project, how long term is this going to be, and how can we add value to the collaboration and partnerships that we're working on. Yeah, that's kind of like—

yeah, it's like people are like, yeah, I'm going to make this money, I'm going to go like sit on the beach and drink Yeah, it's like, well, how long are you gonna do that for?

Exactly, right? So I have a lot of friends that have been through that, and of course a lot of their sharing helps, kind of gives me a better understanding on, oh, when you make X amount, like, how are you gonna do? Like, so a lot of us are focusing a lot of our time on growing personally, right? It can be like communication or like behaviors, human behaviors, understanding how humans operate, and it also helps you in communication, deal flows. And a lot of benefits. Yeah, yeah.

And we also, we have limited space and time that we can do things, right, and that we can let people into our lives. So it's like really important to pick the right thing to focus on.

It's like 100%.

When I look into business ventures or even investments or being on the board of a company or something like that, it's like, okay, the money is like a small percentage of what I'm looking at. I'm looking at the holistic picture. Do I want to interact with these people regularly? Would I rather spend an hour talking to these people or spending with my family? Like, it's like, if I don't really like them or I don't think that we're gonna go somewhere long-term, it's like, not really worth it.

Yes, honestly.

Yeah, unless there's like a ton of money in it, then I maybe sacrifice a little bit for that, but it becomes a lot more than just the money.

But eventually, like, so I was spending time with one of my friends. So he was sharing about his experience, right? So he's very, he's very focused on himself, his family. He's very spiritual, like energy guy, right? So he was kind of sharing like, you know, for all new ventures that he's involved or people that they work with, doesn't matter if it's team members or like partners or whichever, like if the energy and the collaboration vibe doesn't feel right, it doesn't matter how much money that they are gonna make for him. Yeah, it's always like him, right? Right.

We have to learn how to identify that. Yes, like when you live in an existence that's so overstimulated and your mind is judging everything Sometimes you can't identify what the vibe is because your mind is just judging it all. And it's like, I think the practice of letting go or meditating or going on long walks, whatever it is, like letting your mind take a little bit of a rest, you can start to feel that intuition. Like, this is something I want to do.

Oh, for sure. Like, it's just that there's so much, I think, illusion that's clouding a lot of our judgment, right? There's a lot, especially people that haven't been there and done that yet, right? I mean, all those social media bullshit. Oh yeah, all this stuff, it's, it's intoxicating like a lot of minds, right? Oh yeah, it's also guiding people towards the other path, right? Not self-realization, right? Oh, I need to 100% get this Lambo in order for me to feel good. Yeah, but you can feel good before you get the Lambo, right? Right. You have to feel good at present rather than the future because the future is what's causing you anxiety, right? Because you're perceiving that you're gonna only get happy or fulfilled after you get all these materialistic things. Those things should be just part of things that supports whatever you like, right? There's no judgment in getting like expensive stuff or whichever, but you have to understand there's more things beyond that.

Yeah.

Yeah, once they get that, yeah, it'll be much easier.

I mean, getting a Lambo is like similar to just eating a piece of chocolate cake, right? It's like you get a dopamine hit and then it goes away.

Yeah.

But you're right, people are just— they chase it.

And when you chase those things Like, yeah, for sure there's benefits to getting those. You get a lot of attention, people look up to you, oh, you're successful.

And also people that you don't necessarily want it from.

Exactly, right? So like at certain level, people don't like— successful people don't really see those things. They don't care about how much followers you have. Yeah, they don't care about like your KOL, like, you know, do you really know business? How are you operating as a person? Are you humble or you have a super high ego? Right now, all these different things, I realized a lot of, a lot of like, uh, KOLs have really big ego. Yeah, right, because they feel they have all these, uh, fans and followers. And a lot of times, if their ego doesn't get recalibrated, the universe is going to humble them in different ways, right?

You're so right.

Yeah, so right. And, and if those lessons come in and humble them and they don't integrate it, they're still gonna get hit until they finally learned the lesson.

Yeah.

And who's like, who's important, who helped you out, and how are you approaching with your team, people around you.

Yeah.

Because there's people that I've met before, they're really down to earth when they're nothing. Right, right. But when they have a little bit of following and all that, everything changes. It's, it's, it's— yeah, it kind of shows the true form of the level of awareness this person has. Yeah, right. So as I go through more personal development, I realize that, oh, a lot of people like It's not that they're a bad person. It's just that they are at a lower vibration and lower frequency of like authenticity.

Yeah, I was there. I was in that same place. I had all the things and it was like, oh, if people on social media validate me or if someone comes up to me at a red light and says, oh, let me like, whatever. It was like, it's like, yeah, I'm winning. But it's like, I moved into a neighborhood. There's billionaires, there's celebrities, there's, you know, professional golfers and it's like I can't have anything that would impress these people. I'm part of an investment group now where you need to have a minimum net worth to join it. And it's like I'm on the low end of the totem pole there. So I think an interesting lesson is like, if you're impressing the people around you, you might want to go and be around a higher level of people. Not financially necessarily, but like when I look at the group of people in my neighborhood, for example, there's a very high level of intellect. They're all self-made. They're a bit older. It's like my material things cannot impress these people. But where I've made the biggest strides in those types of relationships is like, let me just be a cool person.

Yeah, a good genuine, authentic person.

Genuine, authentic. Not try to— I can't even impress them if I wanted to. But what people care about at that level is genuine. Yes, because there's a huge lack of genuine people in this world.

There's a lot of fake people online, right?

And it's a perpetuating system because the fake people online become the influencers and the followers want to become them, right?

And the thing, the thing, the scariest thing is like even the influencer themselves, they don't know what they want, right? So they're leading a lost group of souls and guiding them towards the wrong direction. Yeah, that's kind of like sad in a lot of ways because you're kind of taking the long route. Yeah, instead of like the straight route to the mountaintop, right? You're just going A to Z, Z to A, kind of like, yeah, but it's just a matter of time.

Right, until people learn the lessons. And I think, I mean, from my experience, I think everyone is in the exact moment they're supposed to be in. They're learning the exact lessons they're supposed to, and they're living a life that's equal to their energetic vibration. It's like if you feel a certain way regularly, your life is gonna match that. And if you feel a different way energetically and emotionally, your life is gonna match that.

But sometimes it's hard also because when, like, when, when people that are really successful or they have really like a big crowd, they're making good money, like there's no pain that they have to go through at that present moment for them in order for them to level up, right? Because like, I'm having all the success, I don't need to do personal development, right? I don't need to. Yeah, there's no— there's not enough pain in order to push them directly to there. So definitely a lot of like challenges.

But over time, I feel like the pain, well, you know, it's like an emptiness. It's like you have these things and imposter syndrome. Yeah, and then eventually it's like, well, there's, there's got to be something more I'm looking for. And eventually people realize that there's something deeper, and I think that's what leads people down the spiritual path and the personal development path.

Yeah.

So you went to Peru for a—

No, I was in Sedona.

Sedona, that's right. Okay, when was that?

Um, 3 weeks ago.

Wow. Yeah. Was that your first time?

Oh yeah. First time.

Have you done any other plant medicine journeys?

I did a bit of mushrooms, you know, like back in— what was that— Palm Springs. Yeah, yeah, it's also a cool place to do it. So a lot of learnings. I feel it's kind of like— I do it for spiritual, I don't do it for fun, right? I do it for like learnings, 100% data downloads, being able to have more clarity. Right? It also speeds you up in terms of your growth, like, you know, reflections. You're more attuned to your internal, uh, authentic self. Yeah, yeah, when you're at those states, right? And you're like, um, I feel it has led me to the whole ayahuasca thing. I think it was a calling because, you know, I wouldn't fly all the way to US just for meetings, but I think it was kind of like, um, a really good experience because I felt there was a lot of detox from like a lot of pain. It was really painful for me, like honestly speaking, like it was like I was in fucking pain.

All the shit that you didn't want to feel up until that point, and you have to feel it to get rid of it. Yeah, you have to feel it to let it go.

So I like, I've done like, so after the trip I was like fucking in a, like there was a big statue of a horse. I was just fucking climbing it. I was just sitting there enjoying the sun, enjoying like the clouds.

The little things.

Yeah, like, um, I'm not exactly religious, right? So I don't like, you know, I don't really believe in God too much. You know, I know it exists, but I don't really have a good connection with it. Yeah, but this time around I felt like, yeah, it's there. Like, you know, it's just like more clarity. Yeah, but I don't— I wouldn't pursue like religion because I feel it's kind of like a framework there. It kind of—

you have to go through different loops It's a framework created by man, which is not God.

Based on culture, right? Based on our culture, it's a reflection. So I feel like, you know, the best connection is just you and God directly.

100%.

That's the most direct path to, like, you know, connecting with the God, with whatever you want. And I feel like even in religions, doesn't matter if it's Buddhism, Christianity, and all that stuff, like, I think it doesn't really show how powerful, like, God really is. Like, the amount of— like, I mean, in those books, and especially in Asian culture, like, it's very different, right? There's a lot of— like, there's a lot of things, but I felt it's not like a proper interpretation of how God is really almighty and strong.

Well, I don't think you can understand— you can't think your way to God. You have to experience. Yeah, you have to be one with.

So As I was going through the trip, I was like, feel a lot of gratefulness, right? Especially like the friends that introduced me to the trip, you know, really close friends. We kind of bonded super well, and it kind of really got me thinking like, how can we spread this to like, you know, like my— I'm not gonna go mass market for this because like you have to attain a certain level of awareness and understanding and success in order to appreciate that, you know? Like if you're kind of like in like 0 to 1, brokey stage, like those things, obviously it helps, but like it wouldn't necessarily supercharge you into like what you need to be.

Yeah, especially if you haven't been through all this shit and gotten all the pain that you need to release yet.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think my first plant medicine journey, the way I can describe it is like, you know, I've been, I went through this, you know, 30-something years of life and my soul has been just like beaten by different things.

Oh yeah.

And I felt like it just kind of like was free and like reborn, and I just felt fresh.

Yeah.

And it was like, I remember I went on a walk the next day and I was walking through like the woods. I was just appreciating the beauty of nature.

Yeah.

It was like I was never able to go on a walk and do that. I was always on a walk, what do I need to do next? It was like nothing, I'm right here right now. And then in those moments, you know, for the people who are like, oh well, how does that make me rich? Well, from that state of being, you get guided exactly where you need to go and you can tap into that. Yeah.

If you can tap into your inner intuition, it's very powerful, right? But there's just so much garbage online that kind of like prevents you from seeking the truth, right? And that's kind of like a lot of indoctrination, a lot of programming from like, you know, like circumstances, lifestyle, family, friends, right? And the people that you mix up with. So definitely like very different experience for me because like, um, I trusted my friends and of course we all go with a deeper meaning We are very clear about intention and yeah, seeking like higher vibration and understanding on Earth.

Yeah, yeah. I think most people just, they look in the wrong place. They're looking for someone to tell them what to do, and it's like you have everything you need inside of you. It's not I need more, it's I need to let go of more. Yeah, like I think that's, that's the counterintuitive. And this will resonate with some people, and it will probably not resonate with most people listening. Yeah, because they're not ready to hear it yet. But it's cool to see that you and I have been in the same industry for a similar amount of time and are coming to these same kind of realizations. And also watching our careers, bro, yeah, follow. It's like, yeah, it's really cool. Yeah, I had no idea that you've also kind of went through all these kind of transformations.

I think the whole, the whole like being an online KOL like in this space kind of really made me question like, is this really what I want? To build, you know. Is this something inspiring? Is this fun? You know, like fun is always kind of really important for me right now. Like, yeah, anything that's not fun or inspiring, like, no, like, that's the point. Yeah, like, are the people that I'm gonna work with, are they after money or are they after like building a really good product that serves the community? Yeah, yeah.

And if you can, I mean, if you, if you can hold on to the belief that the more value you create for society, the more value comes back to you.

Yeah.

And it becomes about giving, and the more you give, the more you get. If you can just really harness that and go all in on it, it's pretty powerful.

It's all there if Right, at a certain point of vibration, it's all about love. Yeah, it's all about like, you know, giving. It's all about absorbing, giving. It's just like, it's everything is just love.

Yeah, it is. Yeah, it's very true. And that's why like I realized that besides my family at this point, nothing really matters because that's where all my love is. Mm-hmm. With my, my, my wife, my son. I have a 13-month-old son, and it's like, congrats, the, the amount of love that I get in the morning when I go get him from his crib and like bring them inside. It's like there's nothing in the world that's better than that. And it's like, it's just, it makes all the other things seem so unimportant. And it's cool to have a foundation like that. And whether it's, whether you have a kid or just your good friends or people around you, it's just, it's really powerful to realize.

I think like during this trip, I think I also cleared a lot of like pain, right? A lot of like baggage from past failures and all this. As much as you can integrate it, like, um, like through your mind. Yeah, but there's definitely things subconsciously that you don't know, right? You don't know what's holding you back. Is there any like patterns that you're doing unknowingly, right? Your awareness level only goes so high on the things that you, you would understand, right? So I think it's a really like, um, good trip for me, like, to be honest. Yeah, like I would definitely do it anytime, like in a way that like serves my intentions. And, um, I think the intention I've set is like, uh, please give me the greatest guidance on the next path in my life, right?

Yeah.

And I think it's like more understanding, like, what, what does the future hold?

Yeah, right.

Of all the business that I have, like, which ones do I really want to put all in? Which ones is inspiring? Which ones has the best partners to work with to bring this to another level? Yeah. Because right now it's like not really looking on just monetary level, right? If my partner is not good, then yeah, we'll just part ways as friends, right, and see how we could like connect. And especially after this time, oh my god, like after I've been— haven't been traveling, like, you know, business meetings and all this time, like this time, like I connected with all my old friends. Yeah, the space like yourself and a lot of people that I've been— I've met like only through online but haven't met in person. Yeah, do you know Josh Snow? Yeah, yeah. So I met Josh in Phoenix. I was like, really cool guy. Yeah, really, really nice, really humble, like, you know, someone that been through a lot, and we just clicked, you know, when we met, like long-lost brothers. Yeah, like it was kind of really cool to kind of like connect with all these people. And yeah, like there's so much opportunities, right? Yeah, you know, as I start meeting people, it's like we realize that shit, like there's so much money. Yeah, so much good projects.

Your energy becomes magnetic. Yeah, when you go through those types of things, when you have these realizations, like people want to be around you. Yeah, people have the misconception that you need to like show your things off and like show up with your ego. I'm not gonna name the specific one, but I went to an event event recently, and I haven't been to events in a long time, and it was just a giant ego fest. Well, how much money did you make? Oh, okay, I'll be friends with you. You didn't make enough. Like, and it's when you're not that kind of person, you draw everyone to you. You become the person that everyone wants to be around because you have a magnetic energy about yourself.

I think we're just so deep in building that we kind of realized that, hey, like, we do have a lot of connections, we do have a lot of resources. It's just like we kind of forgot, right? Right. Yeah. And I was like, traveling around, I was like, oh my God, there's so much projects we can get involved with in a meaningful way that would help supercharge both sides, right? So we're looking at also a payment processor, like maybe a fintech company we might get involved with, and all these different opportunities, like even a forex broker opportunity came up, and all this random shit that I would never ever thought of potentially getting into. They're just opening up all these doors.

How do you manage your, like, your days? Like, if you have several things going on, several projects, like, do you— are you the type of person you can show up to anything and always be at your best? Or do you feel like, you know, if you have a really important call, it should be at a certain time and you want to put a lot of your energy into it? Like, how do you schedule your days to maximize your ability to succeed in the projects you're working on and also, like, add new things in?

I think like the role that I usually play is kind of like more on the early stage, right? When the company needs an extra bump to get it to where it should be, right? So for example, a fulfillment company, right? A fulfillment company, our agency, our education, I'm just probably more there in this earliest stage, then I'll plug in like CEOs who can run it. Right. Then yeah, usually I'll just kind of like have meetings with my CEOs on a monthly basis, and we'll just do a review, like finance, and of course things that we can level up and just grow. I don't spend a lot of time with my other businesses because of the amount of like attention and intention that's required at Capital Club. But I think like as Capital Club grows to a certain stage, then yeah, for sure, like I'll definitely have more time for a lot of my other businesses. Yeah.

How much time do you spend working versus, you know, doing other things? Working?

8 to 10 hours a day. Oh wow. Yeah, I still work pretty much a lot.

Do you feel productive during all those hours?

Yeah, like it's my days are very kind of like scheduled out. Like, uh, you know, I know exactly what I'm doing every single hour. Like, um, like I train up my assistant to handle pretty much everything for me. So like, I very grateful to be in a spot whereby I don't have to deal with any sorts of like admin, any sorts of like personal, like, so my life is pretty simple. Like, you know, when I wake up, I have like, either or not, I want to take breakfast, intermittent fasting, but I have a helper that helps I cook, right? She cooks everything for me based on what I want, right? I have like, she like, everything, right? You know, your life, your bed, your cleaning, your house, everything. I don't have to worry about any of this shit, right? I have my driver, I have my trainers. So I think part of the perks of moving to Malaysia is like everything's so cheap, right? So I'm able to surround and use people that are like successful in their own realms. For example, my gym trainer. Bodybuilder champion, right? Obviously I'm not gonna be a bodybuilder champion, but like I want to be surrounded by people who can teach me the shortcut, right? Like the efficient ways of training. Like my badminton coach is like an ex-national team player.

Nice.

My swimming coach is a triathlon Ironman champion. Now all these people, like tennis, pickleball, they're all like good, good winners, right? So, and it's so affordable. Like it's like in Singapore, it's probably like 100, 100 $50 per session, which is like $30. Oh wow. And they arrive at the time that you want them to be, so it saves me a lot of time, right? So pretty enjoying my life right now, like, with all these things. And I became very active. Like, I used to be not so active when I'm in Singapore. Now I'm probably active 6 to 7 days a week. Nice. With different sports, like playing a lot of pickleball right now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And yeah, being more like just putting myself out there to kind of enjoy. Like, you know, I, I I realized that our bodies in some ways— I'm not sure you kind of had that experience— like, I feel like body is sometimes the limit that holds us back from our awareness and from our energy, right?

100%.

So in order for our energy to feel the maximum, your body needs to be in an environment which is good, right? So which is why being healthy, fit, sharp is part of what you get if you focus on building your health.

Yeah.

Right?

And you learn that, but still, like, for example, I know that the thing that I can measure that has the biggest correlation with what my day is going to become is how fast can I get up and get out the door for my walk? The faster I can do that, the better my day is gonna be. But I still, in the morning, my mind is still like, "Oh, you should maybe go do this first." And it's like, "All right, I just need to go." Like, I just gotta get my body physically through space out on the walk. And then once I start moving, my energy changes. It's like the vibration goes up a little bit, and then an idea comes, and the vibration goes up, and then I feel massively inspired. And then I'm like, oh, this is what I need to do. It's like if I just sat around in the morning, just went right to my desk, I would have probably not had that path.

Oh, for sure. So nowadays I don't even check my phones in the morning. Yeah, not even my partner's. Like, you know, I don't check it until like it's like 11 or 12. Yeah, first thing is like, my— your mind needs to sit. Yeah, and be like Exactly.

You gotta re-realize what life is about every day, right? It's like you realize this one time, then you gotta give yourself the time and space in the morning to get realigned with your purpose.

And like, I do cold plunge in the morning. Like, especially like traveling is hard, but, and like I have my own like sauna, infrared sauna. I have my own cold plunge. Love that. So even though it's fucking hard to do it first thing in the morning, you kind of like, sometimes your mind just tell, ah, you don't wanna do it. Like it's raining. All the kind of bullshit, like, things that your mind tells you not to do it. Yeah, you just push through, you feel so good after. Yeah, so I believe in, like, you know, how you set your mornings is how you set your entire day.

100%. One concept that I always go back to that maybe you find interesting is, like, every decision you make either gives power to your mind or gives it to your soul. So, like, for example, you get up in the morning and you look at the cold plunge and If you don't do it, you're giving power to your mind. If you do it, you give power to your soul. Then the next decision comes up, you know, you're eating and the dessert comes out and you're on a diet. Well, if you gave the power to your mind in the beginning of the day, you know, not doing the cold plunge, it's much harder to not eat the dessert. If you gave the power to your soul, you can roll that momentum to the next micro decision. And if you can just consistently win those micro battles, yes, you change your entire being.

I think those are all like small, which is why people focus a lot on the 1% or every single day. You don't want to make it too hard for you to lose motivation, right? So whenever I share like my, my morning routines, I say you don't have to do everything, right? That's kind of like 3 years in the making to get me to where I am, right? But it's all about small mini steps that gets you closer and closer to your objective or your vision of yourself. Yeah, and that kind of really helps because initially I started like the same mistake. Yeah, I'm gonna do all this shit, right? I'm gonna do all this single day, 3-4 hours morning prep. I feel like it's not like— it's not efficient. Yeah, yeah, and you can— you definitely need to know why you're doing this, right? So because I'm kind of like, I'm clear because I'm not gonna marry so soon, right? So I definitely like— it's gonna be late for me to have kids. Yeah. So I want to make sure like I'm in a position whereby like, you know, if even if I marry late and have kids late, it doesn't affect me because I'm fucking gonna live to 100, right? Yeah. So but if you're gonna like just focus on all the money and not like your health side of things, you're probably gonna make a shit ton of money, but you're gonna fuck up your health so that you're not gonna enjoy time time with your family and your loved ones at a certain time, right? So it becomes very clear for me, okay, great, you need to get your body in a certain state, in a certain health level. And, um, and all these benefits and energy that comes back as the byproduct of being fit, on being active, just fuels the whole business— your creativity, authenticity, the pursuing of like personal development, spiritually, doesn't matter. A lot of people fail to see that connection, right? Right. People feel like, oh, I'm spending time here, but like, that, that is something that you can measure that would fuel whatever you're doing.

Yeah. And if you can learn to be present, yeah, you more often will make those right decisions. If you're not present, if you're scattered, if you're worried about the future, it's really easy to say, I'm not doing the cold plunge right now, I'm gonna go do this other thing.

Yeah.

But if you could be present more often, you could win those battles. And when you win those battles, you change yourself and your life goes in a better direction. And having a really powerful why is very important. I'll say once since I've had my son, like my why has been, oh, I want to be an example for him. I want him to see what you can be. What can you do in life? And like that drives me in those moments where I'm just like, oh, I don't want to do this, or I don't want to travel there. I don't want to do this thing. It pushes me out. Well, you know, he's going to grow up watching me as his dad. I want to be super fit. I want to be high vibration. I want to be a loving person. I want to be super successful because I want his reality to be shaped by this. So having kids is like— people are like, oh, it's so expensive to have kids. You have to buy all this stuff for them. I'm like, it's actually the thing probably makes me the most money because it makes me the best version of myself. It's kind of counterintuitive.

Yeah, I definitely agree on that.

Yeah, you want to have kids too?

Yeah, like initially I was kind of more like anti-kids. Yeah, then I think it goes with age too. Yeah, like I have a few, like my best friend's kids. I'm kind of their godfather. Yeah. I love playing around with them. It's like, oh, it'd be cool to kind of have my own, you know, eventually as well. Yeah, so kind of like, um, I, I definitely feel that there's, there's a lot of love for, for, uh, for family and kids and everything.

Well, if you realize that life is all about love and you realize that kids are the strongest form of love, then it is a mandatory thing. And I don't think anyone would ever regret it. I think people get caught up in the illusion that, oh, I want to have freedom, I want to have fun, and it's like, at what cost?

That was my previous feeling because I feel like, okay, if I grow myself to level 99 as a game character, yeah, right, why would I want to go down to zero again? Because like a kid is kind of like a, um, continuation in some way. I feel there's a lot of uncertainty, right? Some, some kids grew up to be bad kids, like even though you like shower them all, but I also realized there's a lot of like the— a lot of the responsibility comes with the parents on how you bring up the kids, right? And of course to a certain point I feel like, oh, why make all this money when I don't have anyone to pass down, right?

Right.

And the other thing is like also, oh, I have good genes I want to pass down to my kids, right? So I have a continuation of all that. And of course all these factors combined together, and of course with age, I feel like, yeah, I definitely want to have kids. Yeah. Even though if it's a challenge, it's kind of like something new to experience, right? And if like it links back to like the realization, if we're all here to experience, then we need to kind of like go through all these challenges, lessons love to experience life to the fullest before we can be integrated back to the One.

Yes, yes. When also my first plant medicine journey— I go to a place, I'll tell you about it after the podcast, I think you'd love it— where you have a voice recorder on during your experience and you're speaking, and then at the end of it or afterwards you listen to the recording and you type it all out, you transcribe it so you can like really integrate the stuff you learned into your life. I always knew I was going to have kids. But my mind was always like, yeah, you know, when you're ready, once you do this, once you're, you know, settled there. But I was always making up reasons. Yeah, in a couple years, a couple years, procrastinate, procrastinate. The first thing I said during my journey was, have kids, have them now. And it was my soul that was screaming. It's like, dude, this is the most important thing, number one. What the fuck are you waiting for? And it was just a deep realization that all these things I'm making up about my reason why I'm waiting was just my mind trying to make me comfortable, trying to procrastinate.

And it's like, it's a defense mechanism in some ways. Yeah. Yeah, based on your programming that doesn't want you to break free from those, like, you know, right?

It wants to keep you safe, wants to keep you, you know, comfortable in the known. Yeah. And if I can go back, I would have had my son as early as I could because he's the best part of my life.

That's awesome. Yeah, that's a little— that's a very different— definitely a very different path. Compared to when we first met. It's all about partying, have fun, and all the drinks and all that stuff. Now it's like, ah.

It's so funny, we've both been living on the other side of the world, doing totally different things, but going down a very similar path. I mean, dude, this conversation has been extremely enjoyable, and I'm excited to spend more time with you today after this, man.

Yeah, for sure, bro. There's a lot of similar— I think at the end of the day, right, like, it all converges to the same path, right?

It's just like, it doesn't matter how we get there, Yes, we all meet at the same place, and that will make sense to some people and not make sense to other people, but when they're down that path, they'll realize exactly what you're saying.

Seeding them now.

Yeah, dude, this is a great conversation. Thank you so much.

Thank you, bro.

Really appreciate you, brother.

Likewise.