From Accutane to Healing: How Iron Overload & Vitamin A Toxicity Destroyed My Health

Welcome to the Wellness Sherpa Podcast, where we engage with passionate leaders, holistic thinkers, and disruptors who courageously share their personal journey, mission, and wisdom with you. Together, we create a safe space to empower you to live your best, most vital life. Thanks for being here. I am so excited to be here today with Eric Levinson. We met, gosh, five years ago by random. Not. Not random, by a joint friend of ours. And Eric started talking about things, and I thought he had two heads. I had no idea what he was talking about. And lo and behold, five years later, it looks like our paths have kind of intertwined and crossed, and we both are passionate about many, many of the same things. So welcome. I'd love for you to share a little bit about your background and then really, really want to hear your story because I think it's powerful and really important.

Thanks, Jen. Yeah, you know, it does feel like, you know, we met kind of a very important time. And, you know, I do get. I get that a lot, where things that I'm talking about tend to be just a little ahead of the curve. And, you know, that seems to be kind of my whole journey through this, you know, healing process that I've been through for myself and how I help, you know, the people I work with. So, yeah, you know, it seems like we do. We can kind of converge with a lot of the teachings of Dr. Morley and everything that, you know, he's taught about iron, which was, you know, very eye opening and, like, super helpful for me to figure out, you know, some of the missing pieces that. That I still hadn't put into place. And. Yeah, yeah, you know, going back, you know, my journey as a kid growing up Standard American diet and just like, never really having good health. I mean, just. Just always feeling like something was off and, you know, being really, like, super athletic, like swim team, but always, like, overweight and, you know, just eating tons of junk food and having really bad skin. And so, you know, in middle school, I was put on Accutane. Nobody ever talks about food or diet or, you know, nobody. And nobody ever said, hey, you know, you eat fast food more than you eat home cooked meals. You know, your. Your pantry at home is just all junk food. I used to come home, bring friends over, and we would just raid.

Probably like the Doritos and the chips and. Oh, yeah, yep.

Chips and cookies and, you know, like gushers, just, you know, artificial everything and, you know, meals out of cans and boxes. And to my parents credit, you know, we did eat a fair amount of home cooked Meals and stuff. But, you know, like, like Morley talks about is, you know, this was all fortified iron enriched food.

Yeah. I used to believe that fortified meant, oh, they're adding something good in it.

Right.

They're fortifying, they're enriching it, they're making it better. Enrich means to make better.

Yeah. And we just need more vitamins, right? Yeah. I've already taken my multivitamin, but I should also definitely eat my fortified enriched stuff.

And synthetic, by the way, right?

Yeah, synthetic vitamin A. And so putting. Getting put on that drug, which I remember, you know, they do a blood test to make sure my liver could handle it. You know, like, no, no alarm bells are going off. My, My mom just wanted to help me. I had really poor self esteem and, you know, and, you know, I'm sure diet and everything didn't help either, but almost immediately going on Accutane. I remember walking into to class one day, I used to sit in the back next to one of my friends in my one class. I can see it so clearly and all of a sudden I couldn't see the board anymore.

Wow.

Like, I used to be able to see very clearly from the back of the room. And it was literally just one day I walked in and I was like, oh my gosh, it's blurry. And then I needed glasses and I had already had braces once and my jaw was pretty good and everything. My teeth were aligned. And then after going on Accutane, my jaw twisted. I need to get braces again. And then I stopped growing. So I'm about 5 inches shorter than my brother and my father. Yeah. And. And I started having hair loss by the end of high school. Wow. Yeah. So.

And what, what's fascinating, I'm curious. What, what test, what tests they did for your liver? Because skin issues are already a sign there's a liver problem. And then your eyes connected to the liver. Right, Right. All things point to livers being tax, tax, tax. And then you put this toxic, really toxic drug.

Yeah. I think it's just a very basic test. They just test for elevated enzymes that would show know you have liver condition, not that, you know, you're unhealthy.

Right.

Yeah. So, you know, I just, I got the green flag and went through that and, and it, you know, it destroyed my digestion. And I remember, you know, starting having all kinds of crazy aches and pains and like joint issues and that developed into like hypermobility and I could just never get my digestion. My, my gut good. It was just always bad and sleep was always terrible. I could, you know, I became an insomniac and. And then I. Incredibly dependent on cannabis just shortly after that. It. It kind of helped me feel a little bit normal, but I was incredibly dependent on it for many, many years until, you know, I started putting all these pieces together. It wasn't until only about seven, seven, eight years ago where I saw a post from another doctor who started obsessing with vitamin A that I even knew that Accutane was a synthetic retinoid of synthetic vitamin A.

Okay. And I wondered. I wondered how long it took you to start to connect all those pieces and how long were you on Accutane?

So I was only on it for, I think, six weeks, which is like the standard.

Okay. Wow.

Yeah. And I came off of it. And I remember, like, I. I didn't have acne after I went on that, but now I had just like, horribly dry blistering. Like, I was. I was just slathering like lip balm on and like my, you know, everywhere that I could have dry, like, flaky skin. It was just awful. And that was like, for the next 20 years it took me to figure this stuff out and, you know, all kinds of back pain and joint pain and headaches and all kinds of things that, know that resulted from this. And so having the awareness now, oh, it's vitamin A. And I had a little bit of guidance around that. So I started doing, you know, like, this vitamin A detox. And. And it helped a little bit. Definitely was, you know, a step in the right direction, but it was still not like the root cause. Like that initial poisoning from the Accutane just kind of like set off a chain reaction. And so after college, I. That's when I started eating organic and then cut out dairy and then cut out gluten. And then I went vegetarian, and then I went vegan, and then I went raw vegan. And then I'm doing juice cleanses and wheatgrass and enemas and. And all kinds of stuff that, you know, had an initial beneficial effect. Right then became like this, you know, obsessed.

Another cascading effect.

Yeah, yeah. Where I remember at one point I was actually working at a raw vegan, like, retreat center, you know, eating all raw vegan, doing juice at night and all that stuff. Yoga every day. My digestion just was like, totally shut down. No normal bowel movements, feeling really weak. I was down to 126 pounds.

We have really, like, done this because I. I did all that same stuff. And I was about 25 pounds lighter than I. I was like, double zero.

Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I. Yeah, I don't know. And it's like part. I. I think part of the spiritual journey, you know, that I think we all have to kind of go through to really just figure out, like, where's the middle path.

Right.

Yeah. And, you know, so that brought me back to, like, okay, I need to find some sort of balance here. And I kind of. You did the, well, just whatever diet for a little bit. And then that's, you know, when I. I met my wife and she got pregnant and then she had a lot of problems. And around that time, I had discovered, like, bulletproof and intermittent fasting and like, that sort of stuff. And I. Oh, this will be like biohacking. I'll be supercharged. That'll be great. And that's when I lost a lot of hair because I didn't realize, like, what I was doing. Right. It's like simulating stress, like. Right. And. And extreme stress. And then I heard on a podcast that, you know, the godfather of biohacking, he's like, well, you know, I take my thyroid med in the morning and I'm on my testosterone shots, and I was like, oh, gee, I don't do.

Those things, nor am I sure I want to.

Yeah, I'm kind of trying to avoid that stuff. Like, what? I didn't know that that was like a prerequisite for, you know, this all to work, but I came to realize, like, oh, wow, you know, that's like a big part of that world is. Is just, like relying really heavily on these things, these crutches that I didn't really want to rely on, you know, and. And now stepping into having a family, I really wanted to figure out how to have, you know, balance and. And something that made sense for everybody. But my wife, after she got. Shortly after she got pregnant, she developed a massive fibroid. Like just absolutely gigantic. It was bigger than a grapefruit. And it caused a lot of problems. It was really scary. It was. It was very painful. It was very uncomfortable. It was. It, you know, jeopardized the. The pregnancy. And we had to have a very, you know, invasive C section because of that. And, you know, and this was very shocking to me because I really thought we were doing all the right things. I had a lot of. Lot of training. I had, you know, I studied with Dr. Marshall from Premier Research Labs and a bunch of other, you know, very high level trainings that I had done. And we were doing the multivitamins and all the prenatal stuff and everything you're supposed to be doing. So it was very shocking to me. And, you know, thank God, you know, healthy baby. And. But we had a lot of lessons to learn. And so over the next few years, you know, that's when I started to learn about iron and the relationship with hormones and everything going on there. And so things started to make sense. And so that's when I was able to help my wife. And so four years later, she had her second pregnancy and no fibroid. Yay. Yeah. It's pretty amazing. Yeah. The first C section, I remember the nurses were like, they're like, I don't know if you can handle something this kind of, like, gory, but you should really give us your camera and take a picture, because none of us have ever seen a fibroid this size. Wow. Yeah, it was bigger than the baby's head. Wow. And so it was, you know, it was like a great, you know, kind of marker to say wow. You know, now two pregnancies later, we just. We just celebrated the first birthday of our youngest. And my wife, you know, has no fibroid, no hormonal issues. And. And it was really just, you know, this whole journey putting all these pieces together for myself and seeing how it all connected because, you know, she grew up on the same standard American diet. And, you know, one of the things that really blew my mind was, was learning that, you know, we have, like, an upper tolerance for how much iron, you know, we can ingest in a day safely. And, you know, we eat all of this iron enriched food, and in a single serving, we can sometimes get more than twice that upper tolerance. Yeah. And just one serving, and that doesn't even include, you know, if you're on a prenatal vitamin, which. Which has iron and iron. And if you have more than one serving of enriched food in a day and. And everything else. And then if you couple that right where, you know, like, I. So I was poisoned with. With the Accutane. But now a lot of women do skin care, where they're putting synthetic retinoids on their skin.

Yep.

And things like that, which is our.

Largest origin organ, and we are absorbing that right into the system. Right into the blood.

Right into the system. Yep. And. And I've seen where, you know, when I'm working with women who have, you know, done like, skincare and things like that, chemical peels and all that stuff that's, you know, these are retinoids that their body actually goes through a detox process. And just purges that all out. And it's, you know, it's really amazing the body's resilience and ability to heal when we stop getting in his way.

Right.

And most of the things that I've found that, you know, that were taught to me even from the holistic side, are actually getting in the way.

Right.

They're. They're continuing to overwhelm the system or. Or go to one extreme or another.

Well, we all kind of seek that panacea. Right. Give me the magic pill to fix things rather than looking at the body as an int. Innate intelligence system that when we move chemicals and toxins out of the way and give the body good food and natural things, the body will come to its natural state, which is vitality and healing.

Right.

What a concept.

What a concept. And, and what another concept, too, to think, you know, to get away from this idea that, you know, there's bad, like, really bad food, like there's poison, that we're just surrounded by things that are dangerous and, and how that affects our psyche and how that shows up in our body's hormones and. And signaling and, you know, and elimination and digestion and every. How that's all affected. Yeah. And that's, you know, one of the biggest things I hear is that, you know, when I. I get on calls with people, they're interested to work with me, and they're like, yeah, you know what? I just don't get it. I. I feel like I eat better than everyone I know. I take all the. Take all the right supplements, all of the supplements, Got the whole pantry. I know everything, and it's still not working. And, you know, and then you can ask a simple question like, well, do you feel rested and relaxed when you sit down to eat? And you're like, no, of course not. I have total anxiety because I don't know if I'm eating the right things and how my body's going to respond. And I go, well, I mean, that's just setting yourself up, that it doesn't matter what you eat.

Yeah. You can't go into rest and digest at all if you are anxious, if you're eating standing up. I know, I know. When I went through cancer and after I was through it, it was like, okay, Hugh, I thought everything would calm down, but everything that I ate had a lens of, well, that caused the cancer to come back. Is that going to make my body acidic? I can't have sugar. Right. It was all of these things. And I realized it took me about three years to Say, oh, my gosh, I'm keeping the consciousness of that energy in my system, and the fear, which is suppressing my immune system, which will bring it back. Hello. So I finally had to make peace with it. So how do you help your clients make peace with food and eating in their body? Because that, I think, is the number one thing that causes people to stay sick.

Number one thing. I know that was true for me. And so, you know, it's about meeting people where they're at. And so, you know, I always try to take from my own personal experience, which was coming from that high anxiety and realizing, like, oh, my gosh, you know, this is clearly not working. And. And literally just saying, you know what? I'm gonna eat something that I have been told is just terrible. Like, you know, I grew up. I loved Taco Bell, was obsessed. I literally ate that multiple times a week. I had. I got a summer job there during college and ate it every day for an entire summer. You know, now growing up, I, you know, I know what real taco should taste like. And, you know, I. It's a totally different thing. My wife is from Texas, but. But I had to do that experiment. I. I just. I went. Ate Taco Bell. And. And what's that?

Yeah, what happened when you went in and did that?

That it was. It was transformational because I went in and I said, you know what? I have to get this out of my system, because, you know, I. I see Taco Bell, and I have this weird psychological pull to, like, wanting it, but then making myself feel shame or guilt for wanting it. And then I went and ate it, and I said to myself, you know what? Like, obviously if I eat this once, I'm not going to die. Maybe my. Maybe my tummy will hurt or something like that. And I ate it, and I was fine. And I also got to experience being like, oh, yeah, you know what? This isn't the romanticized thing that I remembered. It doesn't really taste very good.

It doesn't taste like taco.

Yeah, it's. You know, it. It just. You can tell it's just a. A. A gross processed food that's imitation. And I just kind of got over it. And so, you know, people don't necessarily have to do that. You know, they don't have to go eat McDonald's or. Or something else or, you know, maybe. Maybe they need to have, like a. A Twix bar or something that they've, you know, really been punishing themselves over wanting. But, you know, but they're stuck in this extreme.

Right.

And just allow themselves to be human and then replace the fear driven motivation with desire. Right? Because then it's like, oh, it's okay that I wanted Taco Bell, I desired it, but then I had it and I was like, oh great, I don't actually desire this.

I desire it. Sounds like that experience changed something in your brain and it changed the memory of, oh my gosh, that's so good, I can't have it to, oh, I'm going to have it, oh wait, I really isn't that good, so I don't want it anymore.

Well, it gave me permission to choose how to nourish my body from a place of, of desire instead of fear.

Right.

And I, you know, it was part of that awakening process for myself where I was like, oh my gosh, I fear, you know, getting cancer or otherwise getting, being unhealthy. So I'm doing all these things, I'm putting all these things into my body, all these supplements and doing detoxes and cleanses and, and eating things that I really don't enjoy for some far off reward.

Right. That may or may not happen. Right.

There's still no guarantee.

Right?

And so it was a big part of that process was putting that together to be like, well, you know, actually, you know, I can eat foods that I really enjoy, that I really desire that are pleasurable and nourishing and enjoyable. I can have them meet my standards, you know, that I can buy from small farms and organic and you know, not use highly processed seed oils and, and do good things in that way. But then, but still eat. You know, last night we made homemade whipped cream with, with maple syrup and, and raw, and raw cream from, from a farm that we know very well. And, and then like frozen, organic, frozen berries and, and my kid, you know, gobbled it up and loved it. And you know, I remember when my wife was pregnant with our first. One of the things that, you know, my wife and I said to each other is like, oh, this is gonna be, kid's gonna be so healthy. He's like never even gonna taste sugar.

Oh yeah.

And, and I've come, I've really come to see like that, you know, there's like this sugar phobia, you know, like I think RFK just today, you know, announced his like war on added sugar. And I, I, I totally agree with that. Like there too much sugar being put in, hidden in a lot of things. But we could take it too far where you know, it's, you know, this is, these are things that that's part of a healthy diet. And, you know, especially for kids, right. They need so much fuel, so much energy. And. And I've seen. I've worked with families that were coming from this, like, deprivation and highly restrictive side. And. And it, you know, it was really having a negative impact, especially on kids.

Right.

And. And again, it's like, you know, we also don't want to put, like, shame and guilt on kids because they do want these things. Right. We can. We can show them how to nourish their bodies, show them how to emphasize their proteins and everything else. And. And, you know, my kids at Halloween, you know, we do the switch witch thing. So they go out, they trick or treat, they get all the junk candy, they come back, they dump it in a pile, and we give that back out and we give them organic candy. But we always tell them, like, hey, if you want to try any of these, it's fine. It's not a big deal. But they. They taste them and they go, these don't even taste very good because they're, you know, they're fillers and they're processed and artificial and everything else.

Right.

Yeah. I love it.

That's amazing. So what do you think of. Of the new food pyramid?

Oh, I love it.

Right. You know what's. What's really scary is it was. I can't remember if it was. I think it was the simp. There was an episode where they're in, like a control room.

Yeah.

Somebody outside is saying, wait a minute, the food pyramid. They've turned it upside down. Yeah, right. And that was like, eight years ago.

Yeah, yeah, there was. That was. Yeah. Eric Cartman on the. On south park. Yeah, yeah, 11 years ago. And yeah, very, very funny episode where, you know, they've created this fake emergency where it's like, oh, my gosh, if people don't know what the government is telling them is okay to eat that everyone's gonna, you know, die. It's gonna be this, you know, tragic event. And then he's calling is like, yeah, it's the. It's the. The pyramid. And they're like, what are you talking about? That's like, ancient history. And it really kind of felt like that. I mean, I remember learning the food pyramid, you know, when I was in elementary school, and I remember, you know, Michelle Obama replacing it with that. That My plate thing. And. And that was around the time when I was, you know, starting to become a little bit more intuitive in how I was eating and just saying, like, yeah, this is really silly. I mean, that's not how I'm gonna, you know, feed my kids.

Right.

Yeah. Like taking away meat and, you know, only reduced fat dairy and, you know, all that. This really didn't make any sense. And, and we see the results, you know, that, you know, since really, since like the 70s, which is around the same time that they, you know, they dramatically increased the amount of iron added to enriched foods. You know, when that. And that started back in the 40s, and it was to, you know, specifically to address anemia in menstruating women. And.

Right.

And they, and they, they assessed that and said, well, it didn't really work, so we're just going to put more iron and we're going to put all these other people, like, you know, people that don't menstruate and, you know, and men and, and people with, you know, iron disorders at risk, and we're going to just triple the amount of iron and, you know, even though it didn't work.

Right.

And. And you can see this incredible uptick in, in chronic illness. Right. And, you know, and the research is so clear, and it's amazing how, you know, people that are like, you know, trust the science and all this stuff, they just ignore. They ignore science and they put out things like the food pyramid, which was based on enriched grains.

Right, right.

And. Or, you know, or demonizing saturated fat, which, you know, now we know, like, Anel Keys, all of his research was total garbage.

Total garbage. Total bs. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And I think the other thing that happened around that same time period is that copper, which helps to regulate iron with NPK fertilizer, sort of reducing the amount of copper in the plants and the animals eating the plants and the people eating the animals and plants.

Yeah.

So that, that relationship gap got bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And I had a contractor at our house, and we were talking about this whole dynamic because I went through Morley's program and he said, oh, yeah, I remember in third grade, we, we had a bowl of frosted flakes in science class, and we had a magnet, and we put the magnet over the frosted flakes and they actually came up into the magnet.

Right.

And so it's not, you know, we, we sometimes don't know. It's actually iron filings. That's what it's enriched with. So this is not like a liquid that they're putting in there, right?

No, it's not an organic form of.

Iron, and it's not a digestible form.

Right.

Of iron.

And. And they, they have done studies where they've put people, you know, in MRIs, and they can see the magnetic metallic iron and where it accumulates in the liver and the pancreas and the brain and around the heart.

Thyroid.

Yeah, yeah. And. And they've been doing this for a very long time, and it compounds over generations. And what's really interesting is that, you know, the mother's iron status determines the mitochondrial genetic expression when. During conception. And so, you know, this is compounding over generations. So they've. They did studies where they gave rats, you know, iron fortified food and to the point where it caused, you know, caused problems. And they showed that. That even if they took them off before the enriched food, it caused. Caused problems over multiple generations.

Right. Well, I look back, you know, when I had my daughter, she. We needed one of those billy lights because she had an iron issue at birth. And then my son. Bright red hair. Yeah, yeah. Morley says that's classic iron overload of the mother. And you dumped all your iron and you gifted it to your children.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. And, you know, we have all these people who, you know, are struggling with, you know, EMF sensitivity, and it's like, well, how did you get magnetic.

Right.

Electromagnetic frequencies. How did you get magnetic?

Yes.

Yeah.

Iron.

Yep. And then you go one step further, right? And you realize, you know, oh, all life, you know, on Earth that practices cellular respiration requires iron. And so when your body is dysregulated with iron, you become, like, a breeding ground for these chronic infections. And so, you know, that's why it made sense to me that I was like, oh, no wonder I developed chronic Lyme, which was a big part of my story that was, you know, a little over 12 years ago when I was diagnosed. But I realized I had those symptoms going back a very long time, right? And just nobody, you know, nobody could help me. Nobody could tell me what it was. And. And then, you know, that realization started me on a path to being like, okay, now I gotta get rid of this line. And that actually made me worse. I did all those protocols. I did, you know, I did antibiotics at one point, and I did, like, the Klinghard protocols and all the different things. And. And the further I went into this war against the lime in my body, the worse I got and the stronger the lime got. And, you know, one of the things, too, that, you know, really opened my eyes was that, you know, all of these protocols included, like, very high doses of vitamin D3. And, you know, I had one practitioner who told me, you Just can't. You just can't take enough D. And he was telling me, take 10 plus thousand units per day.

Yep.

And at first I was like, oh, this actually is kind of helping me feel a little better, you know, But I didn't realize at the time, like, oh, vitamin D is a. Is a steroid.

Right.

And basically I'm giving myself prednisone, putting myself on a steroid here. And it was, you know, immunosuppressant. And so stopping a lot of my autoimmune and helping with joint pain and a lot of my symptoms in the short term.

Right.

In long term, though, creating anemia of chronic disease. So it was actually increasing the rate I was storing iron in tissues and, and causing hypercalcemia and all kinds of problems. So I. I started developing arthritis, calcification in my joints, started getting floaters in my eyes, started developing chronic sinusitis. And. And then that was about the time when I said, you know what? I'm just going to stop everything. So I stopped all the supplements, I stopped all the diet stuff. I just, like, you know, what, if I'm hungry, I'm gonna eat. I'm gonna eat what I feel like I eat. And, and that was, you know, that was kind of like, that was a.

Turning point, it sounds.

Yeah, right. Yeah. Because I. It was amazing. I immediately, almost immediately did feel better.

Yeah. So where does somebody start, Somebody who, you know, has some of these pieces? Where does somebody start in their own health who is dealing with many of these things?

Yeah, I think that's, like, that's probably the most important question, because most of us that are even interested in our health. Right. They're thinking about it at all, are probably coming from a place where we've kind of been indoctrinated to think that our bodies really aren't dependable or aren't quite enough and that we need outside help. And, and that's the. The belief that's holding us back that's keeping us stuck. And so I always try to emphasize to people like, hey, you know what? If we're going to work together, I want to help you find your exit to where you can step back into your intuition and your knowing and trusting your body. And everything that I'm going to teach you will only work if you can just relax and tell your body that you're safe and that you're just going to give your body the resources that it needs to do what it needs to do. So one of the first things that's helped me is, like, Stop detoxing. Yeah, you can't do that, you know.

And it's interesting because, you know, I'm. I'm probably a decade plus older than you, but I grew up in an era where it was like, you know, don't cry or I'll give you something to cry about. No pain, no gain. Every programmed message was about detach from your body. Right. And I was a great athlete because of it. You know, I could get kicked in the face in soccer and get right back up, man. It was like nothing was going to hold me down.

Yeah.

And, and, you know, it's, it's, it's sad to look back, but I knew I could have my kids naturally because I had such a high, high pain, pain tolerance. I'm like, I don't want any drugs. I can do this. You know, I can handle it. And, you know, it's so imperative. And I don't know if they're teaching this to your kiddos at, at the Waldorf School, but, you know, they don't teach us that this is like this vessel, this temple that we have and having a relationship with it. I'm good friends with Raymond Grace, and he's one of the world renowned energy healers of our time. And he said, just giving thanks to your body every day. So every morning when I wake up, thank you, thank you for carrying me today. And then I thank it when I go to bed. Yeah, simple practices where you start to form that relationship and then as you said, your intuition, I mean, yeah, we're all built differently. So what worked for you may not work for me and may not work for somebody else. Or it may.

Right.

But if you don't have that relationship, how do, how will you ever know?

Well, and you have to step into trusting what you're feeling, what you're experiencing. Right. Like what you spoke to is like, well, I'm in pain, but I'm being told I'm not in pain. I just need to keep going.

Right.

And I, you know, I know I've had that experience. I've had many people tell me that experience where they're going to an expert, trying, who's trying to help them, and they're sharing their experience and the expert is telling them, no, you can't be having that experience. Right. And, you know, it's the same whether we go to Western medicine or holistic or, you know, or whoever. And that's, you know, the number one thing I say to people, you know, that, you know, you have to be in the driver's Seat, right. You have to be stepping back into owning your experience, listening to your body and, and being in control and doing what actually feels right to you. Not doing what I, what, what I tell you. Because I told you, right?

How does somebody differentiate, you know, a craving? Because they've been, they're addicted to certain types of food versus their intuition. So, you know, I've had my kids kind of try to dupe me in the past. They're all young adults now. But it's like, mom, my body really wants, you know, candy right now. And I'm like, okay, well explain, you know, just help me understand and they'll go through it and if it makes sense, I'm like, yeah, go ahead. You know, right. I was not a restrict, but I really wanted to make sure they were understanding in their own body and feeling the sensation that was driving that request. So how do you help adults with that?

So in my mind, I think that it's. The question is, is what is the foundation that that desire is coming from? Right? So if, if somebody is already immersed in, you know, a diet of junk and stress and overstimulation and then they have a craving, it's going to be more of the same because, you know, that's what your cells are attuned to.

Right?

Right. So step one is typically we, you know, and this is coming from, you know, either extreme, right? Total junk food and fast food versus, you know, super meticulous, everything has to be exact diet. Right? They're both extremes, they're both stress driven and, and they're not really giving the body the support it needs to, to make good decisions. And so cravings are typically going to come from a place of like, oh, I'm trying to fix some sort of imbalance, right. So if we, we change the conditions. And this is one of the things I, I hear myself repeating all the time, right. Especially when it's like, you know, I'm working with a woman who's concerned about her hormones or something like that. You know, it's like, yes, you can change the response, right? You can, you can do hormone therapy or take a medication or supplement that suppresses inflammation or something like that, but you did not change the, the circumstances or the conditions.

Right.

And so you're, you're going to end up, you know, even more confused. And in a craving, in that place is going, yes, it's absolutely going to come from a place of confusion versus okay, you know what, let's just, let's see what happens if we just take a day and we just say, hey, look, let's just focus on meeting your body's needs today. Here's how much protein we need. Here's how often we want to eat to prevent a. A big dip in blood sugar, which is going to trigger all of those survival hormones, right? And we just cover all those bases for a day. And then clarity comes, because now we're not coming from a place of survival, right? We're coming from a place of, oh, my needs are being met. Now if I want a piece of candy, okay, you. You got your protein for the day. You just ate a meal, so you're not having this on an empty stomach running around, trying to, you know, get through red lights and get your kid to soccer or whatever, right? You're like, oh, I'm. I'm in a calm, peaceful place. And, you know, I really love that piece of chocolate. And that would be really desirable and pleasurable right now. And that's a big shift from. From, oh, my gosh, I'm frantic, and I'm really craving my favorite sweet right now.

Yeah. I've learned don't ever go to the grocery store when you're hungry, because, like, my eye goes to things that I, you know, don't even really like. And it's like. Like old familiar stuff, right? Like, huh, don't do that again.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You come home with a bunch of stuff. Yeah.

I'm like, here, Lou, you eat it.

I give it to my husband, and there's no plan.

I know, I know.

That's. That's the biggest thing, right? Is like, okay, if I don't have a plan, I'm gonna feel really uncertain, and I'm gonna have anxiety. Right? And so, you know, and most of the time, I think that's what a lot of people are really craving. They don't feel well, and. And they're kind of like, just, please tell me. Just tell me what to do. Yeah, tell me what to do. I don't. So I don't have to think. And. And, you know, you. And as. As somebody who's, you know, trying to help a person like that, I can feel, you know, a kind of a compulsion to kind of do that. But I also want to walk them through the process and say, hey, let's make this plan together. Let me give you some information, right? Let me help you understand a little bit so that you can see that, like, you know, and. And almost everybody has this realization, like, oh, my God, I've been running on stress hormones. Yeah. No wonder I can't Drink coffee.

I'm so glad that you said that, Eric, because, you know, I. I'm in a lot of holistic practitioner groups, and there are some that say, you know, my members are. Have so much br. And they're so tired. They just need to be told what to do. And on one hand, logically, I understand that thinking. On the other hand, I'm like, but we've got to empower them to reconnect to their bodies so that they know. Right. That they can find the answers. We're the stewards of our. Of these systems. We walk in every day.

Right.

And if you have even the best intended practitioner who's constantly giving you the information, you're never going to solve that relationship. And that's the most important thing. And I hear you saying that over and over, that the most important thing is having that relationship with your body, getting out of stress and, and also trusting yourself.

Yeah.

Be able to follow your intuition.

Yeah. And that's kind of the natural transition that I see is I start working with people. They're really. They're struggling and they're confused and. And I meet them where they're at and I tell them, you know, try to help them make peace. Right. And that's one of the things I love that you said. Right. Is like giving thanks to my. To our bodies. Right. And say, hey, look, you know what? You're. You're still here. You're still functional. You got on this call. You're doing these things with your life. It might not be ideal, but let's give thanks that your body carried you this far through these circumstances. Yeah. And now let's. Let's make peace. Right? Because almost inevitably, right. When we look at a person's past, there's this struggle and conflict with their body. There's past trauma, there's. There's all of these things. So we have to make peace. We have to start to work together.

Yeah.

And that's, you know, that's the pattern disrupt. So that's, you know, that's. Day one is like, okay, I have, you know, you. You've shared what you've been doing, and, and what the results are, and you don't like those results, so let's disrupt the pattern so you can get a different result. Right. And we can usually get a different result on day one just by disrupting a pattern. Right. Like, so especially when I work with, you know, with moms, it tends to be, oh, yeah, I just. I just forget to eat. I wake up, take care of the kids. I Don't eat. Yeah.

Okay, well, that's like. I used to do that all the time.

Yeah. Well, okay, so you're planning a road trip. You get in the car, the car is on empty. How far are you gonna get?

Right.

No wonder you're tired and have brain fog and all the other things. Your digestion is not working. Everything. There's no energy, there's no fuel.

Well. And our world goes through these. I don't even know what to call them. Fads.

Yep.

Where, you know, like, fast. Everybody should fast. Everybody should do cold water. But, you know, come to find out those things are not good for my body.

They're stressed. Yeah.

It's straight. It puts stress on the body, and I already lean toward that. And I noticed when I. Because I stopped eating breakfast for years, didn't eat breakfast, and started eating breakfast again, and I lost ten pounds. No, I mean, I didn't really. Wasn't trying to lose weight, you know, wasn't overweight, but it was like, whoa, what just happened? Yeah, like, it just. My body was like, thank you. Stop starving me.

Yeah. Your body was no longer in scarcity. Right. Your body's in scarcity. You're simulating starvation. Your body's going to hang on to everything and, and, and, and slow down burning what you do. Give it.

Right. Yeah. So I think one of the messages there is when something comes out and, yes. Oh, there's all this science behind fasting and, and, and all these things is checking in with this. Right. It's know thyself. Right. When you know yourself, you know your body. I know I lean towards stress and those two things. I was adamant. I'm going to do it like everybody else. My body's like, okay, we'll see how good this goes. Not great.

That's one of the things I love. I love to teach, you know, my clients how to look at research. Right. Because then. Then you start to ask, you know, like, oh, this, this guy, this guru is telling me that, you know, fasting and calorie deprivation or all these things are so great for longevity. And you go, well, those studies were done on, like, worms. Yeah. And mice. You know, when I see interviews of, you know, you know, Sally, she's turning 110 today. So. Hey, Sally, you know what, what do you think your secret is to living this long? She's like, wait, I didn't think about any of that stuff.

Yeah, I didn't do any of that stuff.

Yeah. Just, you know, could you get out of here? Because I want to have my Whiskey.

And, and smoke my cigarette or my cigar.

Yeah, yeah. And spend time with my family and the people that I care about and you know, and have purpose. I remember I went to, I spent a lot of time in China and I went on a, like a, a little trip to this Longevity Valley in Guangxi. And it's beautiful, it looks like, you know, straight at Avatar and they grow hemp there and you know, and all these people live a very traditional agrarian lifestyle. And I remember in the little village talking to this family and you know, and this woman who was probably, you know, in her 70s or 80s is saying like, oh yeah, my grandpa, you know, he's out getting, you know, the kindling so the fire and we're going to make suit. And I was like, what, you're your grandpa? How old are you? Yeah, how old is your grandpa? And the grandpa, you know, claimed I, you know, I don't know, we can prove whatever. But you know, he said he was like 112. Wow. And he was out there carrying this big bundle of kindling to, you know, do the fire and all this stuff and you know, and like, well, what is your secret? He's like, I don't know. I just get up and do what I need to do every day and I played with my, to play with my great, great, great grandkids and eat things that I like to eat because it's what we've always eaten.

Right?

Yeah.

So how can people find you to work with you? Where's the best place?

Yes, very easy. Ericlevinson.com you can see right there. Okay. Yep. And you know, I have, I have a few different options but you know, I have programs on there and, and different guides and things like that that I share with folks and, and you can always reach me on social media. I'm on Instagram as naturally connected dad. And my, my wife makes incredible tallow based skincare products.

Ah, okay. Yep.

And she's a naturally connected life dot com. And we, yeah, we actually, we started that because, you know, we met when she was pregnant with my, my second and she almost immediately had just super sensitive skin, like really like bad eczema. And yeah, we struggled for a while to, you know, figure that out and you know, realized, you know, this is really like an emotional thing for her. Very interesting. I don't know if you've heard of like Germany medicine as a whole nother tangent, but you know, that was about the time we figured that stuff out and we learned, you know, like she was separated from mom at birth, and she's, you know, like, really loves that closeness. So she had the separation conflict and everything like that, but we were really able to help her with. With the tallow lotion. And so addressing the emotional and using towel lotion is how we were able to clear up her skin. And now my wife's built an amazing business out of that, so wonderful.

Well, congratulations.

Thank you.

Thank you so much. This was so informative and education, and everybody needs to work with you, because I totally agree with you. It's about reconnecting to ourselves, following our own rhythm, getting out of fear, stress, all those things. So thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you, Jen. Really great to connect with you and appreciate this very much. Great to see you.

Yeah, you too.