How To Make Energy and Get Stuff Done with Morley Robbins, MBA, CHC | Wellness Sherpa

Welcome to the Wellness Sherpa Podcast, where we engage with passionate leaders, holistic thinkers, and disruptors who courageously share their personal journey, mission, and wisdom with you. Together, we create a safe space to empower you to live your best, most vital life. Thanks for being here. Hi, Morley. It's so great to be with you here today.

Likewise.

Our goal here is to educate our community and really give them some actions that they can walk away with to help improve their health, their well being, and their livelihood. Okay, okay, no pressure. So I'm here, and the way I described Morley when I was writing this up is I am here with the legendary Morley Robbins, and I have the honor to also call you a friend. And we've known each other for a couple of years now.

Yeah.

Since I took your class and I.

Invited myself to your home.

That's awesome. I love it. So Morley is the founder of Root Cause Protocol, also known as rcp. And RCP is a culmination of his many years of research and revolutionary study in the approach to health from a truly holistic perspective. This is right off your website, by.

The way.

And also known as the magnesium man. And one of the things that I find fascinating is I think that's old Morley. When I think of you, I think of copper man.

Oh, yeah, right.

All right, so I guess mineral man, maybe, maybe every couple of years you're going to flip to another mineral or. So let's. Let's open it up and let's get started here. I just want to mention that you published a book called cure your fatigue in 2021, and it's a fabulous book. I highly, highly recommend that the audience read that book.

Still has good traction.

Yes, well, I. Well, I hope so because it's an amazing book.

Yeah.

So let's. Let's start there.

The rationale for Magnesium man is you're right, I cut my teeth on magnesium. But what I'm trying to do is preserve people's magnesium by focusing on copper to regulate the iron to prevent the magnesium loss. And that's the part that people need to know, is that there's a reason why we lose magnesium. It's distress. But when we say the word stress, people typically think, oh, you know, psychological stress or my boss is a jerk stress, or what? No, it's oxidative stress.

Okay, so talk a little bit more about that. What does oxidative stress mean and how does it happen in the body?

Unfortunately, we live on a planet with oxygen, and oxygen is not our friend. We can't live without it. But we can't age without it either. And so the most important chemical reaction on the planet is turning oxygen into two molecules of water so energy can be released. And the reason for the title cure your fatigue is that every condition in the Merck manual, there's 32,000 of them, starts with cellular energy deficiency. And so if copper's not right in the mitochondria, you can't activate oxygen to become water. And if it doesn't become water, it's going to become hydrogen peroxide. And if there was a biochemist sitting here and we asked them to spell the word inflammation, they would spell it H2O2.

Hydrogen peroxide.

Hydrogen peroxide. And so inflammation is not a disease. It's piss poor energy production. And so if we're not making water, we're making accidents with oxygen. They're called oxidants. And another term for oxidants is reactive oxygen species. And they're just, they're highly volatile elements that disrupt the metabolism of the body. And what the b. What we're really designed to do, what, what, what maker and mother Nature wants us to do, is make energy. That's why we're here, so we can get stuff done right? We're here for a reason, to be productive. To be productive. We're not here, you know, to overcome diabetes or overcome heart disease or overcome gout. We're here to do things right. And, and if you're worried about diabetes and heart disease and gout, you can't get your mission done right? So we got to make the energy to overcome obstacles.

So we, we all, I think, are pretty aware we live in a pretty toxic world. Air, our food, our water. It's an understatement, right? At what age do you believe or what's your perspective on when oxidative stress really starts happening in the body, in the womb? Okay, so share more about that.

It actually happens as soon as the egg and sperm meet, okay. There's oxidative stress.

Okay.

And if you can't overcome that oxidative stress, no can have a pregnancy. Okay. And that's why farmers, farmers actually understand this better than we do. They know that if their animals are not producing offspring, it gives them more feed, it gives them more copper in their feed to overcome the oxidative stress. It's absolutely, it's, it's really fascinating.

We can look to the animal kingdom in a lot of things over the last three years of what works.

But, but you know what's interesting is we can look to the plant kingdom and we can look to the fungal kingdom. I mean, there's such wisdom. There's so much similarity, in fact, yeast, Yeast. Little lowly east. They're called mini mammals. Their. Their physiology is identical to mammals. It's just tiny, really tiny. But the thing is, when does it start? As soon as you're trying to make energy, there's going to be some. Some oxidative stress. The thing is, we drive cars. Most of us drive cars, and we know there's exhaust coming. But, you know, you've got a Tesla, right. You don't count anymore.

I know, but we do have other.

Okay. Truck and. Right. But the point is, most cars produce some kind of exhaust. Yeah. And we don't pay attention to it until it becomes billowing black smoke. And it works the same way in our mitochondria. There's always exhaust being given off. There's always some level of, quote, oxidative stress that's truly when it becomes toxic. Okay. And it overwhelms the system. The body can't get back to an even keel.

So it can't come back into homeostasis because of that imbalance.

Exactly. And what. And, and so we have acute stress and we have chronic stress. So acute stress is you had just had an argument with your spouse, you had allows a meal, you have a deadline due, whatever, and you're freaking out about it, and you're losing magnesium and B vitamins and they go right into your urine. Boom. It's. The first reaction is. And. And the reason why the magnesium is being lost is there's enzymes to go Greek to go geek. There's enzymes called K enzymes, and they have magnesium attached to them. And what happens is under stress, the kinase enzyme cleaves off a phosphate, and in that process, magnesium is given. And that's why we lose magnesium under acute stress. If the stress is chronic, like 2020 through 2022. So that's a long time to be under stress, looking over your shoulder, waiting for the next shoe to drop. What happens is we become hypoxic and there's different forms of hypoxia. It isn't just being at the top of Mount Everest. And there's something called functional hypoxia. And that means that copper is not available. Well, it begs the question, why isn't copper?

Right. I was going to ask.

Okay, so what happens is when we're under chronic stress, the goal is to make energy. And so the body's going to release adrenaline. And what's adrenaline? It's a fuel injection system that drives iron into the mitochondria at a very fast rate. But what it's also doing is it's making cortisol. And cortisol is, it's great in micro doses when you have a bear chasing you. But if you've got three years of worry, the cortisol binds up copper a thousand times more effectively than it binds up zinc, thousand times stronger than it binds up zinc. And everyone's all take zinc, zinc, zinc, when in fact, copper is what runs the show. And under chronic stress, we lose access to the, to the copper, we lose the ability to make energy. And then the energy production goes into a standstill. And when the copper gets lost, it becomes functional hypoxia, because the mitochondria can't function without copy. And then the literature is very clever and they'll talk about hypoxia. And you've immediately thrown up to Mount Everest and you've got to force yourself back inside the mitochondria saying, wait, what's the status of copper? And it's like a muscle memory, you have to always ask that question, what's the status of copper here? And that begins to clarify the confusion in the research. Because it's, for the most part, most scientists, most clinicians are copper agnostic. They don't know what it does, they just know it's toxic. And it's.

Right. The copper toxicity is a big term. As somebody who went through cancer, sure. Right. In my old house, I had a copper bathtub and when I told my oncologist, he had a total freak out. Oh, my gosh, you can never go in there again. It's going to cause angiogenesis, it's going to cause your cancer to come back. So there are a lot of misunderstandings about copper.

Do you want to talk about that?

Yeah, let's talk about it. Let's talk about copper.

Well, let's talk about cancer for just a minute because again, it's another case of functional hypoxia.

Correct.

Right. What people don't realize is there is no disease called cancer. There's cancer metabolism. And what cancer metabolism is, it's how earlier life forms make energy. And instead of burning sugar and burning fat, it's oxidizing. We're using oxygen to get more energy out of the fuel instead of burning.

Those fuels through the natural processes in the body.

Right. We're letting them fester. We're fermenting those fuels.

Yes.

Especially the sugars. And so when you ferment a unit of glucose, you get 2 ATP. When you oxidize the same amount of glucose, you get 32 to 36 ATP. That's a big jump. But when you. When you oxidize the Same unit of fat, 140 wow. Units of ATP. So it's this quantum leap in energy production. But when you get inside the. The cancer cell, what you find out is it's being choked with oxygen. And though a lot of people who've had experience with that condition have heard of something called the Warburg effect.

Correct.

Otto Warburg, world renowned biochemist and physician, probably one of the greatest minds to ever grace the planet. He was only nominated 52 times the Nobel Prize, but he only got one right, Because Hitler said one was enough. Turns out Warburg was a German Jew. Most people don't know that. Okay, I don't. I don't care what is his religious persuasion is. But he was a marked man in Germany during the 30s, and it's the only reason why he survived is because Hitler's mother and father both died of cancer, and he knew he was going to cure it. And so he was mortally. Hitler was mortally afraid of. Of dying from cancer. But the point is, Warburg's claim to fame was he's the guy that discovered the complex that we're talking about where oxygen becomes water. And. And he's a very clever guy. And he called it iron oxidase, ignoring the fact that copper is running the show. Right. And it would be like saying that you're. You're. Again, this is a traditional car, has an engine made out of iron, but it burns fuel. But we would call it an iron engine, when in fact it's a gas gasoline engine. So what happened back in the 80s? Warburg's head heyday was in the 30s through the 60s. That's when he was at his peak, actually, probably 20s through the 60s. It was 20 years after he died they coined the phrase the Warburg effect. Right. And what. What is important to understand about the Warburg effect is that in the presence of oxygen, the mitochondria will always burn the fuel. Except under the Warburg effect. Well, there's only one way that that that would happen. The oxygen is. And what. What the classic definition of the Warburg effect is. We are fermenting sugar even though oxygen is present. It's really significant. And oncologists, as you've noted, freak out about copper. But copper's not bioavailable. Right. And so oxygen's there, the glucose is there, but we're fermenting. We're going back to an earlier Life form making energy. And it all came to light. It all made sense when I came across a study by Dr. Hammerling in 2016 where he talked about the importance of retinol vitamin A. Vitamin A. Animal based vitamin A preformed vitamin A. And it turns out there's a structure between Complex 3 and Complex 4. We're getting really technical here.

That's okay.

That's all right. But there's an electron handoff between three and four. That's really, really important. And it turns out that the electron rides the tail of the retinal molecule. It's like a razorback or diamondback. And it's. It's absolutely amazing that it happens. It's in something called the signalosome. Right. You get really. We're getting into.

That's a new one for me.

Okay. We're getting into the weeds. But the important thing is what Dr. Handling was able to prove is that in the absence of retinol, you create the Warburg effect. And when I read that, this was a couple years ago, when I first read the article, I was mesmerized. It's like retinol, seriously. And then I went into the literature to see when did they first know that lack of retinol cause cancer.

Right.

Do you know when it was?

Probably a long time ago. 1925, I was going to say 20s or 30s.

When, when Dr. Warburg was doing his thing, there was a. There was a guy at the Rockefeller Institute. Everyone should. Their sphincter should be tightening up. Yeah, okay. Rockefeller Institute. His name was Montrose T. Burrows. I love that name. That is a name he got, he got his medical degree at Hopkins in 1909. Okay. Why do I know this kind of stuff? So I was like, why do I geek out little details like that?

Yeah, because you need to.

Right?

Somebody has to.

Somebody has to. Right. But in 1925, he published an article documenting for a fact that retinol deficiency causes cancer. So that's a big deal. In 1926, he publishes four articles along the same theme. In 1927, a guy named Johannes Fibinger. You know, you know.

Yes.

You know Fibinger, right?

Yes.

Well, Finger and, and Warburg are duking it out in 1926 as to who is going to get the Nobel Prize for the cause of cancer. And Warburg is saying, it's metabolic. And Fibonser said, no, it's parasites. And it took the Nobel committee over a year. They didn't award it in 26. They didn't award it until 27. 1927. They gave the medal to Fibogen, which enraged Warburg. And Devonshire's theory was very provocative at the time. It's a virus or it's a parasite.

Parasite, parasite.

What's amazing is he recounted that theory, and independently of mantras, Burroughs, he publishes an article three months before he died that it was lack of retinol that caused cancer. And so that when you. When you begin to replicate something several times, you begin to say that science.

Pay attention.

You pay attention. And so the. The issue is your. Your oncologist was freaking out about, quote, copper, because the copper was not bioavailable. And what's made copper, what makes copper bioavailable is when it's complex in its enzymes, when it's complex in key proteins so that it can, in fact, be used. And so tremendous confusion about that in the world of oncology, as there is in any specialty. But it's a particularly powerful example of where the mythology has taken over and people don't know the truth of what's going on.

So let's talk about retinol. How. How does somebody get retinol on their diet? Because our diets have radically changed over the last 100 years.

Totally.

So talk about best ways to get retinol into your diet.

Well, you'll get a kick out of this. I'm going to digress and then come back to the question. Okay, so in 1928, there were two studies done within months of each other. In March at the University of Wisconsin by Dr. Hart, and in May of 1928 at the University of Kentucky by Dr. McHarg, a good Scottish lad that he was.

Yes.

And in both studies done independently of each other, they withheld copper from the animals feed. They wanted to see what was going to happen. And in Dr. Hart's study, Iron started to fill up in the liver. So copper deficiency causes iron accumulation in the liver. That's. That's a very important thing to understand. Yes.

And I want to come back to that.

Okay, and in Dr. McHarg's study, lack of copper caused a darkening of the red blood cells. Okay. And what causes them to get dark? Lots of iron. Iron. Lots of iron. Right. And so these two studies became this watershed event to say copper is really important for animals. Where is that research now? It's stored in the Ark of the Covenant in the Indiana Jones warehouse. So. So the reason why I bring that up is that Dr. McHarg is a really big name that no one knows about. He was a preeminent mineral biologist, and I Found a study that he did three years before that in 1925, where he was studying the foods that copper is drawn to that have fat soluble vitamin A. Okay, you ready?

Yes, I'm ready.

Are you sitting down?

Yes.

Okay. It's. It's really, it's so simple. It's so mind blowing. It's like, oh, my gosh, it was right there in front of us. So it's just a six page article. It's fat. It's fascinating. When I was growing up in Baltimore, I was a little boy. I was. When I was four years old, I remember this jingle on the radio. And it's for the dairy that we got our milk from. It's called Cloverland Dairy. I have a terrible voice, folks, but just bear with me. Milk and butter and eggs and cheese, fresh from the farm to you. If you don't own a cow, call Cloverland now. Northfield 92222. Okay. Okay. Milk, butter, eggs, cheese. Right. Guess what Dr. Nicard discovered. Milk, butter, eggs and cottage cheese are rich sources of copper in a historical diet.

So why cottage cheese versus curd?

How do you spell curd?

C, U.

Got it. Curds and whey. Yep. There's no copper in the way because that's where the fat is. Right. And fat and copper go together in the same way that iron and sugar go together, folks, if you've got a lot of sugar in your diet, you're gonna have a lot of iron in your tissue. Right. And so. And what does cancer love? Iron. Loves iron and sugar and loves sugar. And so there's a, there's a really cool book if people really want to dive into the world of Auto Warburg. Wonderful book by Sam Apple called Ravenous.

One of my favorite books. We read it as part of the class.

Right. And so what Sam Apple gives you the impression of is the cancer cell is ravenous for, for sugar. It's actually ravenous for iron. So to answer your question about vitamin A, our ancestors grew up on farms, had access to these very natural products. And what did they say on a daily basis? They had milk, butter, eggs, some kind of cheese. And then what did they do once a week? Liver. Right. And that's, that's a, that's kind of a caricature of. I don't know how real that is, but that a lot of people did that.

Right.

And so the, the unique thing about copper is it needs to be eaten with, with fat. In order to absorb copper into your tissue, you got to have fat in your diet. Well, what happened?

We went through the lowfat no fat diet and it was replaced with what?

Sugar. Sugar. And so the, the whole paradigm flipped in 55. Everyone became afraid of fat for many, many years. I did my research at Starbucks.

There's still some of that in the, in the world of afraid of fat.

Well, totally. And what I was going to point out is when I'm sitting in Starbucks, I'm amazed at the number of people who order skinny lattes.

Right.

They're afraid of fat. Go, go to the supermarket.

Skim milk is still very popular.

See if you can find whole fat yogurt. Right. It's really hard.

It's hard, Very hard. There are about two brands that I have found and that's it.

That's it. And then when you look for butter, you don't find butter. It's all spread margarine. Right. And there's, you know, some Kerrygold and a couple other manufacturers.

But the, but the super, the majority is not.

And so people don't think about that. And so we, our body as we are animals unfortunately, but our body depends on that fat. And one of my prized possessions is a book by Dr. Lay L E I from 1990 and it's a book, the role of Copper in Lipid Metabolism. First chapter is Copper Deficiency and the rise of cholesterol. And there's 90, 90 footnotes. 90 footnotes documenting the copper deficiency causes cholesterol to rise. But who, how many people have that book? Right, right. How many people even know that Dr. Lee was a, another amazing copper researcher and so that the phrase I use is we live in a copper agnostic world. If you don't know, you know, no harm, no foul. If I don't know.

Right.

And it's just the, except, I mean.

Our health is continuing to worsen day by day.

Right, right, right. So, but, but no one would suspect it's this little tiny mineral and no one would suspect that all the iron I'm taking is suppressing it. No one would suspect that the ascorbic acid that I'm ingesting because I'm afraid of some pathogen is killing it.

Yes.

No one would suspect that the vitamin D that I'm drowning in on a daily basis, which is really a hormone, which is a hormone, is undermining copper's ability to do its job. So we live in this very topsy turvy world.

So how do you, how do we simplify it for our listeners to, you know, what, what are some things they can be doing to start to come back into balance with this Right.

You've got a couple options. The most important thing to do is question the narrative. Okay. Mark Twain said it best. As soon as you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to switch sides. If everybody's doing something, you probably shouldn't be doing that. Right? Right. You be, you can begin to take steps. I think what's important is we have what's called the root cause protocol. There's stops and starts, and the stops are going to surprise people because it's going after some very sacred cows as part of the supplement routine. But when people begin to adopt the stops, they find out, wow, I actually feel better. Right.

They have more energy.

Right? Right. But then you need to begin to migrate into the starts, and those are in phases. But really what it really starts with is let's eat an ancestral diet to the extent that we have control over it, that we can find regenerative farmers, that we can find farmers markets and find real wholesome organic food. Let's start there. I think what people have to really surrender to is, is we live in a world now that's dominated by commercial farming. And glyphosate has had a horrible impact on minerals. And many people might know that minerals are being chelated by that chemical, but they're not being chelated on the same scale. It's, it's actually on a logarithmic scale. So that glyphosate chelates magnesium at a 3, but a chelates copper at a 12. So think about a hurricane or an earthquake. An earthquake of 3 is no big deal. Earthquake of 12, nobody's going to survive. Right. And so what does that really mean? It means that glyphosate is chelating copper a billion times faster than magnesium. So there was a time when I could run an eight minute mile and at that same time, my younger son could run a. He ran a 402. Right.

I was going to say 402. Right.

Yeah. So I called him up, said, you're going to go for it. He said. He said no. He said I could practice for months and not break it. But his old man did something silly. I went to a gym to see what it felt like to run the four minute mile. Almost killed myself. So that's twice as fast. Right. Billion times faster. We can't even relate to it. So we live in this world of numbers that we can't really relate to. And we're being exposed to chemicals like glyphosate, high fructose corn syrup, fourth generation antibiotics, and People don't realize that the target of all three of those chemicals is copper by design because you're, you're literally taking the life force out of the body. Right. You're taking the, the catalyst that allows us to make energy so practical things people can do. Again, adopt an ancestral diet. We have a series of, of supplements that we encourage people to get food based wherever possible. I think the, the products that you and Blue Cell are amazing because they are, again, they're designed by mother Nature.

Yes, they are.

Right. You know, nature provides, right?

Yeah.

And so the minerals, the catalytic cofactors are in those products in a very natural and accessible form. I think people would do well to really familiarize themselves with what you are bringing into the world.

These are the plant stem cells.

Plant stem cells. And I was on the sidelines as it related to supplements for over a decade. I renamed what COVET stands for. So COV stands for coppers vanished and ID stands for irons dysregulated. What took me about two months to figure out what was really going on. And it's all about those minerals. And people don't know minerals the way you and I know minerals. But, but that's really at the base of that whole dynamic. And it's coming into light in the research now. They're really focusing, they're really focusing more and more on the fact that iron is absolutely deranged and copper is like, where is it?

Well, and iron is still being added to our food. So. You know, when I started reading labels after my health crisis eight years ago. Right. So when I really started looking at everything and when you see something that says enriched, I used to believe, oh, that's great. They're adding things in there to help me. And then I found out enriched meant they were adding iron filings to our food. And even, even the organic breads and pastas say enriched with. So I would say, I would add to a simple thing everybody can do is educate yourself and read your labels. Because things are not as they seem and not as they are presented to us.

And, and I absolutely agree with you. The, the downside though, it's almost overwhelming. I mean, I can't trust anything. Right. It's really what it comes down to.

Yes.

And if you can just surrender to that reality that we have to go on the offense, question everything, take the time, and once you, once you learn the lingo of the label, it doesn't.

Take any time, then it's easy.

It's very easy.

Yes.

But you have to accept that there's games being played. And so when I realized what was going on in 2020, that's when I decided to put my toe in the water. And then I developed a copper supplement. So it's called recuperate. That's another way you can build on the food system, build on plant stem cells.

So can anybody take that supplement regardless of the state of their health? Because it's a question I get asked frequently.

As far as I know, yes. I don't, I don't know if the first question people ask is, is, am I going to become copper toxic? And so let's, let's deal with that. And that really relates to any form of copper you might have in your, in your diet or your supplement routine. The classic symptoms of quote, copper toxicity is racing mind nausea. Are the, are the two that really stand out? Well, what, what people don't know is that copper has a job on the planet. Copper is the general and iron is the grunt, the foot soldier. Right. And, and what do generals have? They have more stars on their shoulder. Right. And what are the stars made out of? Brass. What's brass made out of? Copper. And so copper is the general and it's directing the activity of iron. Every facet of iron metabolism is copper dependent.

Well, we used to have copper pipes in our homes.

Totally.

Right, right.

But you can't get iron, all that enriched iron, you can't get it into the digestive tract if copper's not there. And, and it's a two step process, but it's really important that copper be there. But you can't make heme, you can't make hemoglobin, you can't make red blood cells, you can't mature red blood cells, you can't recycle red bloods, blah, blah, blah. So it's a, it's all copper dependent. And how many doctors know that? And so that's what we're up against is this tsunami of ignorance about how the body works because they've never been told what copper is. And so the copper, the symptoms of copper toxicity are copper mobilizing iron in the stomach tissue, in the brain tissue. And when iron comes out, it's not your friend. Right. And so that's, the people don't realize the level of accumulation of iron in their body because we've been exposed to it since birth.

And you use a statistic in class where you share that at a certain age, how much, what percentage you can imagine you have in your body.

Oh, you can. Well, the easiest thing to do is just Take your age, multiply it times.

365 and that's how much iron you.

Have in your body, that's how much iron you have. So typically you'll have, you'll be in the mid five figures.

And what should we have?

Well, you should have 4,000 for women, 5,000 for men. And most people in their 40s are going to have about 20,000 milligrams of iron.

So how do you get it out of the body?

You got to get more copper into the body. Right. But you've got to rely on mother nature to do blood donations. And so we encourage people, especially men and postmenopausal women, quarterly blood donations. Even women who are still cycling can do blood donations. Typically we recommend two times a year. But there are many, many folks, many women in the RCP community who are donating four times a year, even on top of their monthly, monthly cycle. So it's a very easy natural way to release iron. You're gonna, you're gonna get rid of about 250 milligrams, which is not insignificant.

Right.

So in the course of a year you lose a, a thousand milligrams. That's a lot of, it's, it's not a dangerous level of iron. And in fact what people find is they feel much better after they do it. Right. Because the, the extra iron in your body is playing with the extra oxygen in your body is causing oxidative stress that's diverting energy from being made.

So are there foods that folks can find copper in?

I'm increasingly suspicious. I think it's harder and harder. We want to believe that the mollusks, that the seafoods, that the organ meats, that the nuts and seeds, that the leafy green vegetables, these are historically the classic sources of copper. I'm afraid they're not as available as we think they are. And it's not me just being pessimistic. There was a group of farmers, cattle farmers in Texas, who wanted to develop a. Most of the desiccated beef liver that people are ingesting is being grown in either New Zealand or Australia. Yeah, it's not being grown here in the states. And that was offense offensive to some cattle farmers in Texas. And they decided they were going to make grass fed beef liver that desiccated, dry it out and make it available. And they did something that no one had ever done before. They did needle biopsies of four cows before they went to slaughter because they went, they were curious. I wonder how much copper they're eating. The grass Right. And they wanted to see how much copper is in the liver of these animals that we're about to use for making the product. And how much copper was there?

Zero.

Zero. And they called me up, they said, what the heck? What's going on? I said, what are you feeding the soil? They went, what? And so if the farmer's not feeding the soil, not feeding the rhizosomal activity, the fungi that do all the heavy lifting, if they're not getting fed the minerals, and, and Liz and I are reading, a lot of people have audible. Liz is my audible. Okay. So we're driving, she's. She reads these. And so we're reading Dirt to Soil. It's a great, great book. And I learned how it works. The rhizosomes, those are the fungi. You need six of those to every bacteria. So you need a lot of rhizosomes. But, but what the rhizosomes do is they trade carbon for minerals. Okay. And where's the carbon coming from? CO2. Right. It's really, it's a really cool. It's a barter system. And so you gotta have enough for the rhizosome, but they've gotta, they've got to have the minerals in the soil so they can exchange with the plant. And the tragedy is so much of the soil around the world is now being exposed to glyphosate. Right. And it's, it's not, not that every farmer is using glyphosate, but it's in the air now.

It's in the air, it's in the water. Right? It's everywhere.

It's everywhere. And so it's a, it's a wonderful question. What are some foods that I can eat? You know, if, if Joe Roland were here, he would be telling us about his cherries, right? He loves his cherries, right? Yes, but, but has he done, has he done a mineral analysis of his cherries? And the mistake that, that people make is they'll go to nutrient tables. They have a lot of eye candy on online. They look really cool. Right, right. They haven't been updated since the 50s. Well, people don't want to hear that. Well, the last time I know of a study was Rutgers University in 2000 did an update. And the, the devastating loss of minerals in the soil compared to the nutrient tables from the 50s was so dramatic. It got stored with the Ark of the Covenant. People don't. They don't know that.

Right.

Yeah. And so it's. It. We, like you said, we live in A toxic world. But it's a. Again, once you learn the lingo of the world, once you learn that they're not necessarily out to get us, but they're certainly out to, to stress us out. Right. And challenge us. And what do we need to do where we're under stress? We got to make energy so that we can think our way out of the condition that we find ourselves in.

So what are the forms of copper? So in your recuperate, you have it in pill form, liquid. Is it available in liquid as well?

It's in a capsule. Okay. And what we've got is desiccated beef liver. We've got spirulina, which, which is an incredibly rich source of superoxide dismutase, which is one of the most important enzymes on the planet. Super. When you're, when you're supposed to be making energy, you're supposed to be turning oxygen into water. Well, if you don't do that, the first thing you're going to make is something called superoxide. It's O2 with an extra electron and it's pissed off about it. And so it shouldn't be called superoxide. It's hyperoxy oxide. And this enzyme was discovered in 1967 at Duke University by a guy named Joseph McCord and his faculty advisor Irwin Fedovich. And that discovery turned conventional medicine on its ear because they didn't know that the body had natural ways of calming down the rust. And that's what oxidative stress is. Right. So it's rusting inside. And so spirulina, very rich source of superoxide dismutase, which means it's a source of copper. And then we make sure that you get the copper using copper bis glycinate. And everyone who knows anything about, excuse me, copper knows about copper one, copper two. Well, bisclycinate is copper zero, which means it's immediately bioavailable. And that's pretty cool. And then we put in some turmeric just as a anti inflammatory. But there are in terms of other forms of copper that people can use. Probably I think the most bioavailable beyond that would be as a copper cream made by a company called Reverse Skin Aging. Lauren Picker is the copper scientist who discovered the peptide. People may have heard of the GHK peptide, but it's built into the cream. And it's blue, it's sky blue. And it's an amazing way to put it on skin. And it has the ability to. It goes not just to the skin, goes on all the way into the bloodstream. There are some other forms, there are some liquid forms. I'm beginning to do dig a little deeper to see how bioavailable are they, how much are they really providing. And I, and I really think what I remember from our earlier conversations is, you know, your whole product line, I think it was 80 of the, some over 100 products that you had. You found copper.

Absolutely.

And so I think the copper is there and we just, we need to be very sleuth like to find it. But I think the walking into a supermarket and expecting to find foods there that are going to be copper rich. Well, I'll find it. I don't think it's going to happen.

So you spend three hours a day, every day doing research. Where is your research taking you now? Because one of the things I love about Morley is every time I talk to, to him or see him or get a text from him, there's a boom emoji because you're continuing to uncover.

We'll grab the article.

Yes.

On the floor. Okay. This was, this was today's find. I would, I've always find a handful, but this was the one that really excited me the most and I, I sent it to, to Jen. I said we could spend the whole day just talking about this one article, but it's a relatively recent 2022 article like Scientists had never heard of. Okay. Which is always intriguing. Right. But what they're talking about is the importance of copper in the immune system. And most people don't know that copper has anything to do with the immune system. But when you get into it, you find out, oh my gosh, if I'm getting sick, it's because I don't have enough copper to run my immune system. And what I'm, what I'm really going gaga over now is the spleen. So a lot of people have heard that word. You know, it's over here on the left side. It's, it's a really, it's a mysterious organ. It's called the hidden organ. It's actually the organ of odd numbers. 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 and 11. Okay. Relate to the spleen. It's 1 inch thick, 3 inches wide, 5 inches long. It weighs 7 ounces and it hides behind ribs 9 to 11. But here's the catch. Under stress, it can go from weighing 7 ounces to 7 pounds. Wow, that's a big change. That's a 16 fold change in weight. And what's behind that? You're going to love this. They're called iron granulocytes. So the body has these little soldiers called macrophages, and they're. They're amazing little molecules or Crete. Well, I don't know what they are, to be honest. That's embarrassing. But they are organisms that we depend on to stay healthy. But they. They gobble up dying red blood cells, but they also gobble up bacteria. What do bacteria live on? They live on iron. Iron. And so these macrophages. And what absolutely drives me bonkers is sometimes they're called leukocytes, sometimes they're called granulocytes, sometimes they're called macrophages. And we just agree on what they call. Right. You know, I mean, you probably have a lot of nicknames, but most people know you as Jen. Right. Jennifer. Right. But it's like, oh, my gosh. So iron starts to build up in the granulocytes, which then builds up in the spleen. And then the spleen starts to get really heavy. And what's very clear in the literature is a spleen that is preoccupied with iron loses its immune function. And what people need to know real quick, this will be sort of a little salt, the next conversation. Okay? Anyone who is using antibiotics, anyone who has anemia, and anyone who has any form of autoimmune disease. Antibiotics, Anemia. Autoimmune has a weak spleen, right? Compromised spleen, compromised spleen. It's not making enough energy. And the. In simple terms, the spleen is the master quality control center for the body. And if. If the spleen ain't happy, nobody's happy. And what I'm learning now is that there's a spleen intestinal tract pathway, there's a spleen liver pathway, there's a spleen pancreas pathway, there's a spleen brain pathway, spleen heart pathway. And a lot of people might be worried about neurodegeneration. Turns out there's a peptide. There's always a peptide.

There's always a peptide.

It's called syk Spleen Tyrosine Kinase. There's that kinase guy again. And Y is the symbol for tyrosine. So SYK is released in the spleen, goes to the brain to activate the macrophages in the brain. They're called microglia. Again, why can't we just call them the same thing? But the microglia in the brain are supposed to clear out the debris. Like the guy at the end of the Rocky Bullwinkle, right? Cartoon, remember? Right voice. Clean up the street. And so there's all sorts of accumulation of peptides and proteins, powerful Synuclein, prion protein, tall proteins, amyloid plaque. There's. There's a dozen or more different proteins that need to be. We're supposed to brainwash. Right. The brain knows how to wash itself if it gets activated by the spleen. Okay.

So the spleen plays a really critical role.

Yeah. And. And it's. No one would ever have suspected it. And I'm very grateful to Brian Artist. A lot of people may know that name. Yep. From COVID circles or the snake.

Snake venom, yes.

And my sister had. Had lupus and so did his sister. And he has the claim to fame of having cured her of lupus. I did. I didn't even know that was a possibility. And she was told when she was 11 years old she would never have children and that she would die in her 40s. And she's now in her 40s with four kids. And she's very grateful to her brother. Yeah, Brian. And he thumped me in the nose about it. And it's like it was a wake up call. And so now I'm just like a heat seeking missile. Understanding this mysterious part of our anatomy that nobody knows anything about that is very mineral dependent. And it's in the, in the thick of recycling iron. It's in the thick of the immune system. It's in the thick of the lymphatic system.

So it's center stage.

So that's my, that's my latest preoccupation.

Okay, so last question. Yes. What's next for you?

I'm gonna, I'm gonna write another book. It's just talking with Larry Trivia is the. I call him my guest writer. Great, great guy. Brilliant mind and gifted writer. And we're gonna do a book on heart disease since it's number one cause of death right now. Why don't we. Yeah. And cancer's right on the heels of it, right? Yes. So we're going to do heart disease. We're debating what the next one will be. We'll probably turf cancer and go to diabetes. Okay. Because cancer is a tough nut to crack, right? It is.

It's a complex. Yes, it's a complex illness.

And I think a lot of it is mental, emotional, for all the right reasons. But I think it, it gets very authority very fast.

Absolutely. And a lot of different perspectives.

Right. On it. The other thing that's new is we're, we're developing an online course in addition to, we have, with the, we have a 16 week program for the Root.

Cause Protocol Institute that I highly endorse and recommend life changing. Just a wealth of information and practical tools that you can apply to your family, friends, and clients if you're a practitioner.

And so we're gonna. We're gonna do it online. So it's an evergreen. So part of the problem is people say, oh, I don't know how to fit it into my schedule. Well, we're going to make it available so you can do whatever you want to do.

Okay.

So that'll probably be the next. Next big thing.

Fabulous. Well, it has been so wonderful.

Yeah.

To have you here.

Well, thank you.

And this is one of many conversations that we will be having because you will never run out of anything to share about.

I hope so.

Which I'm grateful for.

Yeah.

And I look forward to our next bout.

Well, and I'm. I'm thrilled to be here. And, folks, she's a genius. She really knows she has two gifts. She has tremendous insights about the healing process, but she's a. She's a really accomplished businesswoman who knows how to build a business. And so I think. I think the world is going to benefit from both of those twin engines. Wow. Thank you. Sat.