Trauma Speaks: The Body Listens with with Deanna | Wellness Sherpa with Jenn Payeur

Welcome to the Wellness Sherpa Podcast, where we engage with passionate leaders, holistic thinkers, and disruptors who courageously share their personal journey, mission and wisdom with you. Together, we create a safe space to empower you to live your best, most vital life. Thanks for being here. Well, today is Friday the 13th in June, and I have just the most amazing pleasure of having Deanna Hansen here. Deanna and I have, I guess, met a couple of years ago, and she is one of the brightest lights and most powerful women on this planet, and she is doing such amazing work. Deanna is also a dear friend and just, we just vibe at the same level with truth and so many amazing things. And I'm just. I'm actually going to start getting emotional. I'm just so honored to have you here, Deanna. Thank you for saying yes and for being here with me.

You're making me tear up, too. I'm so, like, honestly, the little conversation we had before about the world and things, my body is still, like, just vibrating from this conversation. So I'm super excited to dive in and, and have a chat with you and your community.

Yeah. So thank you. Thank you. And why don't we just start with how you. How you. How you got started. So you were a physiotherapist?

Actually, I was an athletic therapist, which here in Canada is very similar to physio, except we're trained to work with elite athletes. So that's really where more of the training comes from. But ultimately, once you're finished the training, we all have this, you know, similar protocols to follow. But I really focused my work with my hands, with deep tissue work. So I actually practiced more like a massage therapist than anything in the beginning stages of my work.

Yeah. So how did you go from training elite athletes or working on elite athletes working on their bodies to developing block therapy?

Oh, that's quite a. I know it's.

A big, long thing, but I share your personal story because it's amazing and what you learned on yourself and then how you translated that into working with other people.

And, you know, that was really the. The whole thing for me because I was trained to, like, with exercise physiology and kinesiology and all of the things to have a fit body. But what was really interesting was all of the things that I was doing were. Were making my body thicker, denser, bigger, more congested. And so this was me and my, like, between the age of 25 and 30 when I was really, you know, I certified as an athletic therapist at 25. And I was doing the work I mean, I was doing 400 sit ups a day, running Tae Bo, aerobics, I mean, you name it, and I was doing it weights in the gym. And it was so incredibly frustrating for me because I'm working with these athletes, I'm doing what they're doing, and yet it was like, why is my body doing, going in this opposite direction to what it should be doing? How are the rules of weight loss not applying to me? It was so incredibly frustrating because I was dieting, like I was doing all the things. And it was when I was 30 years old that I made some changes in my life. And one of those things was starting the practice of yoga, also changing some relationships. Lots of stressful things were happening at that period of time. And I started having these incredible anxiety attacks. And because of the changes. So yoga was really helpful because it really taught me about the breath and the significance of holding the breath. And I had a really great practitioner my first time of doing it, where probably every 30, 45 seconds she would be reminding us to breathe. And I would recognize every 30, 45 seconds I'm holding my breath. So that was one really big understanding for me. But then, as a result of all these other changes and this anxiety attacks that were coming on, there was this one attack in particular that was the seed of everything to come, because in that moment, I actually thought I was going to die. I was literally locked, frozen in fear. I couldn't catch my breath. So for some reason, I intuitively dove my hand into my abdomen. And the first thing that I encountered was pain. But the pain brought me out of my crazy thinking. It brought me back into my body. So suddenly there was this feeling of safety. I knew I was going to live another day. But what was fascinating was I intuitively started moving my hands through my tissue. And the thing is, I stored my 50 extra pounds of weight in that space, so I never touched it. It was full of shame. I hated that area of my body. So now here my hand is diving into this space. And what was really fascinating was I was uncovering what felt like scar tissue, marbled throughout, even though I hadn't had any injury or surgery in that area. So suddenly I'm working on this space, just kind of moving around for about 30, 45 minutes with my hands in the area. But I felt really calm and I was able to also connect to my breath stuff I had been learning from yoga at that time. So I started piecing some things together in that moment. When I woke up the next day, I felt a little Tender from the work. But I was really excited to come back home after working on my patients all day to dive back in and really get a sense of what was going on. So the second night, when I dove my hands in and I did again, 30, 45 minutes of just that intuitive exploration, when I stood up, I felt different, I felt taller. And then I went and I looked at myself in the mirror and I literally began to cry because my belly was flatter than it had looked in years. And so suddenly I'm having these aha moments, like, no wonder when I'm coming home from a five mile run dripping wet, my belly would still feel cold. And I started recognizing that there was no energy getting to this tissue because of this scar tissue, these adhesions that had formed. And combining that with my yoga understanding, it really came to the fact that I wasn't breathing at all properly. I was a highland dancer when I was younger and I was always told to hold in your belly. So I trained an upper chest breath. And through the process of the years and diving into understanding breathing, which I learned from yoga and other sources, as well as what I learned in my own body, and then started applying to my patients, I really had this deep recognition of what the fascia was or is and how we can really address this tissue to support optimal healing. And it really comes down to the fact that if we're not breathing diaphragmatically, we're collapsing into the core of the body. So all of that upper chest breath isn't properly fueling the body with oxygen. It's also keeping us filled with toxins and congestion. The lymphatic system gets really sluggish. So that was just an awakening that I had back then. And then I started applying my work to my patients, working in a very similar way. And I started having these incredible results with pain reduction, with all the things. And then I started attracting other therapists to learn what I was doing. So it's been a 25 year journey of just the exploration of my hands in my own body as well as patients. But then it was about 2010 when I really wanted to teach people self care. And that was really where block therapy came into the, into my understanding. And it was an intuitive process as well. Well, to teach people and to get people to understand how to use tools for their own body so that they don't have to use their hands like I did, because there's a lot of limiting factors to that.

So I have so many questions. Well, the first is light bulb just went off when you were talking about holding the breath. Because I think most people hold, hold our. We hold our breaths. Humans hold our breaths. We're the only mammals, I think, that do that. Yeah, I did some somatic training long time ago. And you know, we. Trauma is what causes us to hold our breath. And we're living in fight or flight. We live in trauma pretty much, you know, all day long we're rushing, we're doing things right. And it's very easy to hold the breath. But the light bulb that went on is the connection to weight because you're holding and energy is following. Right. And matter follows energy. So if you're holding, you're going to be holding the weight, you're going to be holding that energy, and that's all going to be compounded day in and day out when you do that over and over. So that was the light bulb that went off. But my question was, why did, when you started digging into your belly, scar tissue? Tell me about that. So you hadn't had any injuries. Is that just because that's what the fascia feels like? So can you share a little bit more about that? Because you said it was like scar tissue as you were digging in there, but you couldn't at first go, you've said, wait a minute, I don't have any injuries here. Why, why is that there? So how, how does that happen?

So along the way, as my understanding around fascia started to grow, and I've spent probably over 60, 000 hours now on people's bodies with my hands, including my own, so I have a really good understanding of, of what's going on in the fascia system. So the fascia is primarily made of collagen and elastin, the two proteins. When in proper balance, they give the body both mobility and structure. And then the goal of that being that we keep all of the cells in correct alignment. And if that's the case, then there's optimal space in and around the cell for absorption of nutrients into the cell as well as the removal of toxins and waste away from the cell. But the reality is we are under this constant gravity. So gravity is constantly pulling us down toward the earth. And we don't compress linearly. We literally wind down in one direction or another. We're dominant on one side. And then again, all of the traumas, whether physical from injury, surgery or emotional traumas, they impact the fascia. And so what happens to this balance of the collagen? Elastin is. The collagen will start to Migrate to areas of need. So just imagine sitting in front of a computer, slumped for decades, which is the reality for the majority of people. If we don't have something to protect us from falling over, we're going to fall flat on our face because we're losing our proper foundations that support our body. So the collagen starts to migrate to areas of need. And this accumulation of collagen creates false walls and false floors in the body, which act like scar tissue. So they create barricades to flow for both nutrients in as well as the removal of waste. So you can even feel it right now, in order to support proper space, you could put your hands just on that asis bone, that pointy bone at the front, and then also notice where your lower ribs are. That's your, that's your waist area, right? We should have space in there. But so many people, they've collapsed so much into that core space that the ribs and the pelvis are really close together now. So then we have this compression and ballooning. And from the weight perspective, this is where this partly comes from. We, you know, especially as we get older, we find it's harder to lose that size around the middle. But it's not accumulated fat, it's compression and ballooning. And then because we don't have that energy from the diaphragm working to support digestion and elimination, we're getting a backup of waste in the body. And then we attract parasites and other things that create even more waste. And then we start expanding further and further. So it's really the collagen that has migrated, creating adhesion all throughout the body. I always talk about it being like a slow forming scar from the bone to the surface and everything in between. As we start falling away, there's this constant migration to support balance. However, the balance comes at the. We lose mobility when we become structurally solid because of this migration. And then the areas that don't have that proper collagen in the tissue now, they're under this greater influence from gravity. So maybe it's a jowl, you know, like as we're getting collagen gripping to bone to stop the head from tipping over, now we have this area of too much elasticity and gravity starts pulling it toward the earth. And we start to see signs of aging as a result of that. So it's this imbalance in the fascia that's really key. And also what happens when we don't have balance in the fascia is we're now compressed in the core area. So now we can't access the diaphragm fully and completely.

Right now, the breath becomes even more challenged.

Right, exactly. And the collagen will grip to everything in its path, including bone.

I was going to ask where the adhesions are happening. Can you share a little bit more about that?

Yeah. Have you ever seen on a window? I live in Winnipeg, so I get to see this every year. But have you ever seen on a window when it starts getting cold and you can see the frost growing? Yes, that's exactly what's happening in the body. As we fall further and further away and our breath becomes more compromised, we become colder as we get older in our tissue. Your diaphragm is like your body's furnace. Most people are breathing through the muscles of the upper chest, which is like a space heater. So I live in a 30 story building, and when it's minus 30, if I only have one space heater, I heat one room in my apartment. If you turn on the building's furnace, you heat the entire building. So that's one of the many reasons why it is so important to understand this diaphragm. The mechanical movement of it moving up and down properly in the body creates heat, heat for the organs, heat for the heart and the lungs. It also makes this area of the body strong. It's the foundation of the ribcage and everything above. If we're not actively focused on conscious diaphragmatic breathing and we're breathing through the muscles of the upper chest, then here's this foundation that becomes really weak. And then all of the contents above come crashing down into that core space, displacing the organs again. We don't have that mechanical work now. So the area becomes cold. And think of fatty liver disease. How many people have solid fats blocking the liver's function. We need to heat the liver in order to keep those fats liquid. Just like butter at room temperature is a solid, but put it in a frying pan and heat it, it becomes a liquid. So we need to liquefy everything through turning on the body's furnace, which comes through proper diaphragmatic breathing. But the challenge is for people starting, if you're only doing breath work and we don't release those adhesions that have formed around the rib cage that are blocking the diaphragm from functioning, you'll only be able to access whatever amount of diaphragm you have available to you in this moment. So we want to release the rib cage so we can get full access of this Incredible muscle. So we can make sure that we're feeding into every one of our trillions of cells and keeping from head to toe, from core to surface properly clean so that the lymph doesn't build up and become stagnant and problematic.

So I just want to point out to the audience that I've had the opportunity to sit next to Deanna in several in person events and she is the most upright sitter and walker of anybody I know. So she walks the talk, what she's talking about. She actually is really a role model in that way. So a question. Thin people that don't have, you know, belly fat or anything like that, what happens there? Do they still have adhesions and why aren't they more expressed outwardly?

Yes, we all have adhesions because unless from day one till however old we are now, we've been conscious of posture and breath lifelong and you know, nobody's really taught us that we will start falling out of alignment. So it has nothing to do so much with thin or fat. I mean, some people have. You know, I remember learning when I was in exercise physiology, there's only two times in our life when we actually increase the number of fat cells when we're babies and at puberty. Otherwise if our size is changing, it's because of what's going on inside. So if you were overfed as a baby or there was something at your time of puberty that you might have accumulated more fat cells, then that can be an expression that you'll see later. But either way, it's really about compression and ballooning and that compression that makes people so incredibly tight in the core. And unfortunately, fitness isn't necessarily the healthiest way to go. When we have that six pack abs, you know, like we, we want this hard body. The hard body is not a healthy body. We want to be able to have a nice strong muscle when we contract it on purpose. But when we're not actually contracting our muscles, we don't want them to be hard. We want them to be soft, full of space. Because fluid. Exactly. Yeah. So it's not so much about size, it's more about alignment. And again, there's going to be different things that have created different body sizes and different shapes. I mean, even what we're born into, the different body types will display different situations as we keep going. But adhesions and scar tissue are what creates pain, dis, ease, aging and ultimately death. You know, it's, it's compression over time. We end up squeezing the life force out of the body. So the work that we do puts the space back into the body that time has taken away. No matter what you look like, what your stature is like, it's about keeping those cells in correct alignment.

So let's talk about the blocks now. So you did all this work. You've learned so much. I mean, I would consider you the world renowned expert in fascia. And I love that you started with yourself. But how did you go to that next step and figure out, oh wow, if we use a block, it's a tool that somebody can use to help release those adhesions. And can you just talk more about. Because you have several now. You've got three. You've got a baby block or a mini block, normal size block and then the paddle. So talk a little bit about what your insight was there, how you discovered that. And I know you're helping millions of people around the world.

So I, I, you know what, I love this story because everything for me has been an evolution of intuition when the time was right. And so it was around 2010, about 10 years after this whole thing began for me, that I really wanted to teach people how to do this as a self care method. So I actually had a program or a class where I was teaching people to use their hands on their own body. But again, limiting factors to that. Some people have issues or pain with their hands. Plus to be able to get deep enough and maintain and hold pressure with your hands, it can be awkward. So I was actually having a private yoga class. I had this teacher that would come in and I was always doing restorative yoga. So she has me going into a sideline twist on a bolster and she cautions me to be careful because how deep this position gets with the bolster. But I mean, for 10 years already I had been diving my own hands into my body and I'm thinking, this isn't going to be a problem for me. And as I get into the position with the bolster, I wanted more. And because I was a teacher of Iyengar yoga prior, I had this rectangular wooden Iyengar yoga block nearby. And I said, you know what, I want to lie on that. And she's like, oh my God, you're crazy. And I said, no, just let me try it. So I go into the same position lying on this piece of wood and as soon as I do, I thought, oh my gosh, I don't need to use my hands and my body. I can use my body weight and gravity and I can maneuver on this piece of wood. The challenge was it was rectangular, so it had sharp edges. So as much as I could do that, there was limitation into how I could use it. So for a couple of years, I was working with one of my bodyworkers who was also a woodworker, and we ended up creating. Creating the size and shape that we use so that we could get deep through the layers, but in a really comfortable way, because we're going into the soft areas, we're going into the armpits, the groin, into the abdomen, the side waist, all throughout the body using this tool. So the shape is designed for comfort, but we also use wood because bone and wood are similar in density. And when I was in my yoga days, there was this lovely teacher we had. Her name was Ingalisa. She was from Denmark. And she would always say, bone on wood is good. And that never left my brain. I've got a Danish background and I just love this woman. And so that would ring through me. And I trusted that. And as I'm lying there and I'm feeling it and trusting it, it was like, holy smokes. Like, this makes so much sense. And so because bone and wood are similar in density, we need something dense like bone, to be able to get all the way to the root, where that fascia will grip and adhere with that 2,000 pound per square inch seal. So just the process of me doing this work on myself and then starting applying it to my clients, that was the beginning, and that was around 2010. So now it's evolved from there.

So how do you know you're at the root? When. When do you know you've hit the place where there's no more adhesion to release, and then you kind of shift to maintenance mode. And then I want to come back to your other blocks.

Honestly, I don't think we're ever in just maintenance mode, because there's layers and layers and layers of trauma and fascia. Even through the birthing process, even past lives, we come into this world not perfect. And especially the youth. Today, I'm seeing that the babies are not born diaphragmatically breathing, because the mothers are so stressed. But we have so much in our bodies, like all the traumas, all the emotional upsets, I mean, all of it. And here we are today, with whatever age we are starting this journey, it's more of a lifestyle. And each time you go through a layer and you have a release, you have all these wonderful, beautiful gifts as side effects, Whether it's increased range of motion, feeling more at peace within your body, because you're really tapping into the parasympathetic nervous system, managing your size and shape, all of these things. But I've been doing this now for over 25 years and I'm not even close to getting to the roots of all of my issues. Right now I'm actually dealing with. I've. I've uncovered a three year old issue that I had in my. In my foot. I had a really bad third degree burn when I was three years old, which caused me to walk with an incorrect gait. And then that gets patterned. And then I had another really bad injury on my pubic bone when I was seven. And then I was a provincial volleyball player and a highland dancer. And like, you think of it like we all have our story, right? So there's so many layers and layers to how we patterned our body and our movements that when you get to a different layer, you uncover the deeper stuff that comes to the surface. So that's the exciting stuff. And I mean, to your question, I would say that people go through these transformations and whatever brought you to the work, whether it was to deal with chronic pain, to manage size and shape, whatever it is, you get to uncovering that issue and then you feel great for that. But then the deeper stuff comes up. So it becomes this constant unraveling of your past, of your story. And I love that it really never ends because there's so much more, I believe, that we are here to do than what we even truly know that we're here to do. And as we keep opening up and creating more space and connecting to the cells that are deeper than what we're consciously aware, then we start really hearing and understanding what is our real purpose here. So that's the exciting part for me.

That'S the exact same, exact same thing I see in the healing process, right? It's an onion. So you're just peeling back a layer and then you have a new structure, a new foundation, and then there's more, right? It's. It's like, wait, there's more, there's more. So it's really a journey, it's not a destination. And so what I'm. What I'm hearing you say, Deanna, is that people might come in for one reason, and as they go through this and there's more space, it's another invitation to keep going and keep going, to keep unraveling and releasing the patterning that we all have and keep coming back into our beautiful light blueprint.

Yes. And I mean also not to mention that we're constantly being pulled down by gravity and we're not perfectly balanced in how we use our body. So there's also an ongoing compression that's occurring just from living life. So then to be able to also have a tool and a process to manage that and go deeper, to keep unraveling what time has done to us. That's again, that's the lifestyle that has become so prevalent for so many people now.

Well, and I see these children are now playing soccer at 4 years old, right. They're starting kids younger and younger in these very intense athletics. I know I was an athlete. You were an athlete. I played volleyball also. I played soccer. You're getting kicked, knocked over, right? So you're constantly in that and that energy of potential injury.

And that's fashion.

Yeah.

You know, like fashion is a massive one too. Like it drives me crazy when I see young kids, young girls wearing heels. I mean, it's one thing to throw your foundation off when you're fully grown. It's a very different situation when you, when you throw your foundation off in your developmental stages. Because even just thinking of having a high heel shoe now, you're tipping your whole body forward and that's going to compress your rib cage and affect your breath. And of course, oxygen is the most important nutrient to feed the cell. So as we're developing, if we start doing these things at a really young age, it can really impact us negatively. And we're seeing this in the youth again for so many reasons, technology being in my view, one of the biggest ones. But we're also the most toxic that we've ever been in this world. So these young kids, as they are developing are getting flogged with so many things. And then we've got Instagram and all the other things where they think that they're supposed to look a certain way. So at a really young age now, especially girls, they're doing things like, you know, plumping up this and that and whatever, long before there's a need. But what does that mean as they become 30, 40, 50 years old? Because these are things that would have happened to a woman probably 50 plus. And now it's happening way younger and it's toxic and it's going to be, yeah, it's going to be an interesting world to see. What's going to happen?

Well, and they're saying that these generation of kids will be the first kids that don't live as long as their parents. Right. Because of that toxicity. And it's, it's toxic emotion it's toxic lifestyle. Right. The world we live in. All, all of the things. Okay, so tell me about the baby block and the paddle and then we'll. I want to share a quick story at the end and then we'll share how people can find you.

Amazing. So this is the little guy, the block baby. So I actually created this after this one. It was a few years later when one of my clients said her seven year old daughter was lying on the block and loved it, but it was a little too big. So we created the block baby for that purpose. But now it's really just become part of the the set because we actually have a bunch of double blocking classes. And it's lovely to have both sizes because we're all different sizes and shapes everywhere. So to be able to manage different positions, this larger block might feel more comfortable for some people in certain positions and vice versa. Now, having said that, this little guy, it can be pretty intense, especially working around the rib cage. It will actually go deeper in some areas. So having both tools is a lovely way to approach the body just for that reason. But then our newest tool is the paddle and I just love this. So funny story. Actually, my engineer approached me with this after I created my pet program and he said, what do you think this is about as, as a tool for your pets or for the pets? And I said, no, this is for the face. I was so excited because we do have classes where we block the face, but because the landscape of the face is so different with the cheekbones and the eye sockets and like all, all the different architecture that we're dealing with with the face, this represented more what my hands were doing in the face area. So we can get into these deeper areas of adhesion and really focus on releasing, melting those adhesions to support lymphatic drainage, as well as getting the oxygen to all of the structures in this area. And what we're going to be doing in the near future is also adding full body paddle classes into our membership. Because this is a more advanced tool, it definitely gets deeper. But after you've been doing blocking for a long time, there's going to be areas that you want to get in. Deeper, deeper, deeper. So having this combination of all the tools is a lovely way to make sure that you can manage all aspects of your body, no matter what areas that you need to get deep into.

So talk about your programs. What kind of programs and education do you have that is available? And then you mentioned animals, so we'll add that in too.

Yeah. So basically we direct people to start with our starter program. And in this program you can purchase the block buddy, the block baby, or both. We always say if you're over five feet, you for sure want the buddy, if you're under five feet, the baby. But again, you can get both. And there's value to having both. And in our starter program, you get nine foundational classes. There's a block therapy class as well as a corrective exercise to own the spaces that we're creating to really support proper postural alignment. There's also a number of additional classes in there, including a two hour virtual, sorry, a two hour seated full body chair class. It's fascinating when you approach the fascia from different perspectives and different angles, that seated chair class, especially in the rib cage, can get really, really deep in such a beautiful way. So you get this whole program with the tools. And then with our paddle program, the facelifter class, you get nine classes targeting from just below the clavicle and all throughout the neck and the face to really first open up the lymphatic area so that then as we get into the face and the skull, we have that opportunity to properly release the toxins that we're bringing to the surface so that we can approach the body in the healthiest way. And then again down the road in our membership, which we have tons, hundreds of hours of classes and daily guided programs, we're going to be adding additional classes with the paddle throughout the entire body into the membership as well.

And you have a teacher training program as well, right?

I do. I have an academy. So I have teaching people how to teach block therapy. I also have a program for bodyworkers where I teach them fluid isometrics, the technique that I initially developed with my hands, block therapy being the self care version of that. I also have a program for estheticians where we teach them how to use the paddle on clients faces as well as their hands to give healthy, natural facelifts, which also has a ton of additional benefits for health. And then there's the pet program, which.

Hear more about the pet program.

Yeah. And I partnered with Dr. Marlene Siegel to create a fascia decompression for the fur family where we teach the pet parent how to decompress their pet's fascia so that they can optimize healing.

And all that can be found@blocktherapy.com.

Yes, that's our website, blocktherapy.com so the.

Quick story as we start to close here that I'd like to share is a dear friend of mine named Vicki, we went to healing school together, and I remember Vicki. So she was a Runway model and she was constantly doing rolfing and massage and healing because she was always having pain in her body. And a couple of years ago, I was visiting her before I met you, Deanna, and she said, I don't do any of that anymore. I do block therapy. And in my mind I'm thinking she was going to a gym or some kind of location like Orange Theory or one of those called block therapy. And she said, okay, you know, here. And she handed me your block and I said, what the heck am I supposed to do with a wooden block? She said, that's block therapy. She said, I do it every day and it has changed my body and changed my life. And when I look at Vicki as a human, she has evolved so much since doing block therapy. So the point that you were sharing earlier around the space and your purpose coming in, that's what I've seen evolve in her as a result of doing this work. Not just the physical pain gone in her body and the money that she has saved by not doing all these other modalities, which were really kind of just moving things around. Right. Wasn't really solving anything, and she's a completely different person. And just to point out to the audience that if you go to block therapy, you're going to see so many before and afters, which is amazing. You can actually see the massive change in people. And that's, you know, as Deanna said, that's one step in the unraveling. And when you keep going, you just keep finding more and more of yourself.

And I just want to give a shout out to your beautiful plant stem cells as well, because, as you know now I have been indulging in the love and the beauty of the plants, and I am so incredibly grateful for what you have found and discovered. I take them every day now. I'm taking eight different ones that you have selective with your incredible intuitive mind. And, you know, as soon as you put that, that medicine on your tongue, you just know, like, it's, it's. It was such an intuitive hit for me that, wow, this is so important and spectacular. And my community just loves what you've brought to the world. So the combination, like, what I love about that is the work of fascia decompression, creates the space so that the medicines can penetrate more deeply. And I just absolutely am so thrilled with what you've put together in this world and I can't wait to collaborate further with you, Jen.

Yeah, me too. I am so grateful for you, Deanna. You are a brilliant being of light. And that's what we're here for, right? To shine our light and be our best selves. And that's what we're bringing to the planet.

Yeah. Yay.

All right, well, thank you, thank you, thank you. And I will. I can't wait for this to air. I'm gonna.