17% of Listings Are About to Expire…

Hey, welcome back to the podcast. What have I told you? 17% of every listing in the United States is going to expire and be available for people like you to go help them the first week of January. So I'm doing a very special podcast right now. I have Jeff Mays, a rockstar coach, dear friend of like 30 plus years, and the extraordinary Carolyn Young, who way back in the day when she became a client, went from making, you know, 300, $350,000 a year only working her database and referrals, took on expired listings and in one year grew to over a million dollars in commissions. So we're going to get her insights and she just listed and expired this morning. So first of all, Carolyn, welcome to the show. Jeff, welcome to the show.

Thanks, Tom. Thank you, Tom. Thanks for having me.

I am so pumped. So, for my friend, if you're listening only, I'm going to share some stats and I'm going to share some things that I want you to be aware of. And if you're watching this on YouTube, do me a favor, just in the comments, just tell me in advance, are you willing to help some expired listings the first week of January? Are you willing to do that? Just want to see it in the comments. So. So if you're listening, I'm showing a slide right now that basically says, hey, in 2024, there was like 130,000 expireds the first week in January this year in 2025, 132,000. But the numbers, the forecast for 2026 is between 155,000 on the low end and 185,000 on the high end. So we're just taking one hundred and seventy is an average. And the thing that I want you to be aware of, and Carolyn, look at this. This just came from our friends over at Red X that on average, when they relist, they relist after 36 days. So on average, some are listing 70, 80, 90 days, some are doing it after six months, some are listing with you within four or five days, but the average is 36. And the average tracking against they expired, coming back on the market refreshed, et cetera, selling in 75 days. So this is a big opportunity, my friends. And what we know to be true is if you look at the data, expired sellers are 18% more likely to sell when they hire a new agent. When they hire a new agent, 18%. And we know if you look at the data, the vast majority of them sell because they lower the price. And a big percentage actually sell because they Raise the price. Because a smart agent like Carolyn, like you, was able to repackage, reposition, refresh, and remarket that house and do it the right way. So I want to just stress, why are we here? We're here to maybe debug the myth around expired listings. We're here to understand, as Carolyn knows, sort of the emotional state of this person. If you're watching me on YouTube, you would see the. The four sort of emotional states that you need to understand when you're calling this person. And that is, number one, embarrassment. They're embarrassed. They told all their friends their home was going to sell. They told all their friends they were moving, you know, from X to Y, and all of a sudden, they're still there. And, like, people are like, what's wrong? What's the matter? What's the matter with your house? So no wonder when you call them, they might be slightly annoyed. Of course, the number two emotion they have is uncertainty or loss of control, right? Like, we're not sure what's going to happen next. And then number three, kind of tied to that, is for financial stress. You know, hey, maybe we put a deposit down on a new construction property. Maybe we've got the financial stress of, hey, you know, we need to be in two locations now because I have to move from my job. So, honey, you got to stay back with the kids. Like, there's so many things that happen that if I can just get you to really acknowledge, I need to be empathetic, compassionate, understanding, and. And then present a plan to them. And nobody better than these two to talk about the plan. So, Carolyn, this is what I'm sharing with people, and Jeff can reinforce it. And then I really want to get your opinion. Let's assume, Carolyn, the person listening right now has never worked expireds, or maybe they did a long time ago in their career, and they're. They're like a rock star veteran. Like you were, you know, call it eight, nine years ago, and you're like, wow, doesn't cost me anything. They've already raised their hands. They want to do something. So here's what I'm telling everybody. What if you just woke up early on January 1st and you just went into the MLS and took a peek? And then I say, what if you. Instead of saying, oh, my goodness, there's like, 175 or whatever the number is, what if you instead just said, let me look for the communities where I'm comfortable, the price ranges, where I know I've got a lot of confidence, and in Areas where you're like, I know I can. I sold a house down the street from that expired listing like two years ago. So like, what if you just looked and instead of being maybe overwhelmed by a big number, what if you just said, let me isolate it down to like 5, 7, 10, 15. That makes sense for you. And then this is where it gets interesting. I'm like, some people will call, Carolyn, you said this. Some people will call, some people knock on doors, some people are going to text them, some people are going to drop a package. I love to say to people, don't edit this, it's all good. I'm losing my voice. On the very last podcast of the year, what if in this package you gave them a personal note, the letter, which I'm going to show you in a minute, an MLS printout of their house that you just printed out that morning of the three to seven mistakes that their former agent made. And you, you just basically say, I know how to solve this. What if you included your resume, your track record, your references, reviews, you know, the map of your transactions from Google or Zillow or wherever you have them. And what if you put it in a large envelope or a FedEx envelope, or if it's a high end listing in a Tiffany colored box so it stands out and you get noticed. And then before I just, before I finish this, I just want to say, what if you called every one of them? What if you just said, look, I just want to make an offer to identify, like, the four things that definitely cause your home not to sell. Like, and you know, just for the record, 52 properties like yours sold in the last like three, three months. You should have been one of them. But I know exactly why it didn't happen. And what if you just made an offer to sit down with them for 15 or 20 minutes now I want to share all this stuff and you're going to see all the slides. Especially if you're on my YouTube channel, we'll definitely have it on the podcast on tomferry.com with all these slides. But I want to, I want to stress before I kind of turn it over to Carolyn and Jeff, I like to look at this opportunity. He's like, what's the worst thing that could happen if I just pulled up the expirage and reached out to 5, 7, 10. Well, on the flip side, like, what's the most likely scenario? Most likely scenarios, you're going to get a listing. But then I'm like, what's the best case scenario? What if the best case scenario is you're listening to this pod or you're watching this and you're like, Carolyn went from what to what, like, in one year? So. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna kill my slides, Brandon. And I want to. Just want to turn it over to Carolyn. Carol, I just dropped all these, you know, thoughts and I know I'm probably talking too fast, but speak to the listener that. Speak to the listener that has never worked expireds before. Like you were in that scenario, you know, you know, less than a decade ago. And maybe give them some encouragement around what you identified that worked, what didn't work, how long did it take before you got into that flow state? So just kind of open up and share with us.

Yes. So, Tom, I think for me, and it was about seven and a half years ago, it seems longer, but when I first started, right, doing 40 transactions the first year, I said, I am increasing my business and I needed to get from 400,000 to a million. So I added 63 more transactions at first year end. I will tell everybody it doesn't work the first week or two. Like, come on, you got to give it a little bit of, you know, effort to, to get your rhythm down. But I will tell you, I. I'm excited. Like, I have a team now. I've built a team over the years, right? So we've got a group that is going to be doing expires and they, they're already on them. And it's amazing with the results. But I think if you just think, oh, these people are so hard, it's like, you know, some people think it's just like getting ready to open up a can of a bunch of mean people and it's a, you know, tough way to get business. But if you look at it right now and you say, you know what, There's a lot of people out there that need to sell. They need help. We know a lot of agents don't even have a listing plan. They probably were with somebody that. That helped them fail and that I know that I can come in and I can help you and tell you what to do. So what you're trying to do this time will work. And 95% of the agents are not calling from that mindset. If you call from that mindset, you will get the conversation going and you will stand out. And there is a lot of people out there that need help. So I think it's amazing, even if even sometimes you can just call and say, I'm wondering if your house is still for sale. And they might say, yeah, I'm interviewing next week. So you might even get an appointment by a mistake. So I.

Yes, I've heard that so many times. So. So it's so great, Carolyn. I literally wrote down four things. Mindset, objections, how long to follow up, and how do you stand out? So you. You went to the mindset part. What are the objections they're going to hear and how do you overcome them?

It's the same thing every time you call. It's either, I have an agent. I'm not. We're not selling. What. What's your commission? And stop bothering me. Like, they're annoyed that. They're annoyed that you're the 20th agent that called and they don't want to talk. That's usually the main thing. Look, we're not selling. I already have an agent. We're only talking to people with discount commissions or stop bothering me.

So, Carolyn, thanks so much for calling, but we already have an agent. We're just going to relist with the same agent.

That's no problem, Tom. I can understand that. So I have a question, though. I just want to let you know I'm calling because I noticed that your home came off the market. I do a lot of business in your area, and actually I have a lot of the large accounts in your area. Would it be possible that I could just stop by to take a look at the home and I can see for one, Tom, if you decide to list with someone else, I might find the buyer for you. But nevertheless, are you aware, Tom, that there are some gaps that were in the marketing that were. That was done on your house before?

I mean, you know, I would assume there's always going to be gaps with whoever we hire, but, you know, at this point, you know, I just feel super bothered right now. I'm. I'm somewhere between taking the home off the market altogether and just, you know, maybe just rewriting the plan for our life. Hey, it's that time of the year, January 13th and 14th. We're all going to San Diego to that beautiful new Gate Lord resort. We did Orlando the last couple years. Now we're going to the west Coast. So have you made your reservations? Did you get your flights organized? Have you figured out your buddies of who you're going to have lunches with and dinners with? There's so much fun at this event. If you've been coming for years, you know, this is the time where all the besties get together, put their hair down and just talk shop. What's working, what's not? What commitments are you going to make for the New Year? What are you committed to? What are you doing with your health and vitality? What are you doing with your money? What are you doing with your team? It's all, all of that and more. And you know, it's the best event because it's user generated content. It's a whole bunch of people that get together and say, I want to talk about this subject. And maybe there's 15 people there, maybe there's 500 people there, but it is the event. So if you're new to us, you're going to be blown away. And if you're one of my besties, been with me forever, you already know, you probably already booked your hotel, you probably got a suite, you probably have a text group going already with a whole bunch of your besties who are going to be there as well. So you January 13th and 14th in San Diego. I would plan on getting there early, maybe over the weekend, especially if you're coming from the Northeast, get some good sunshine and maybe stay a day or two afterwards to just take all the ideas and figure out what you're going to do better and more of as we enter out of that event. So I can't wait to see you there, get your reservation set and I'll see you in January.

Hey, it's Josh Altman jumping into the podcast. If you're here to grow your business, build your real estate foundations and get into the right mindset, well, you're in the right place. But if you want more, I got you. Don't worry. Tom Ferry and I teamed up on Altman Advantage training program that we built for agents like you to get some early wins, big momentum, and the energy that you need to keep winning every single day. It's a behind the scenes look to what it takes to win in one of the most competitive markets in the world. And, and I know it will work for you if you're willing to put in the work. You ready? Are you ready? All right, good. You want to sign up? Get in now. Go to tomferry.com forward/altman to sign up. That's tomferry.com forward/a, l, t, M, A N. Let's go back to you, Tom.

But I'm curious, like, see if you sell a lot of houses. The last agent, you know, you know, was really kind to us in terms of commissions. Are you open to that? Like, you know, we're talking like, you know, a pretty low amount because they said hey, your house is quality. I'm going to do a bunch of open houses. They said they were going to get a bunch of buyers from this, and so we were like, yeah, that sounds good. So what can. What commission do you charge?

You know, the first thing, Tom, I would say, from just listening to you, it sounds like you're gone through a lot of frustration, but you're trying to deal with commissions, the type of marketing. If your plans are going to change, you know what I would say? You know, I do a lot of business in the area. It would be worth 10 or 15 minutes of your time. I could stop by, take a look at the house. I can give you some great tips. And who knows, I might have a buyer for the house. But why don't we just meet face to face, five or 10 minutes? I'm going to be in your neighborhood this weekend. I'd be happy to stop by.

So when you're saying that to a customer, what's the typical response? Like what? You know, just kind of breaking the role play for a second. Or what do people say when you're like, look, I'm going to be in the neighborhood, why don't you come by, spend 10, 15 minutes, you know, give you some insight, maybe, you know, help you with your next agent or help you with your current agent.

My. My thing is, for the most part, and a lot of those, I do have to go into the objection because they're. No, I have an agent. I have an agent, and I'm just going to go back and say, I get it, but what we do is a little different. Not many people have my platform, and I'm going to go back and try to get in. Right. But for the most part, if you just say. They say, well, I am not listing with you. I want. No, this is no obligation. My main thing is I prefer not to talk about objections on the phone. I just want to get in front of you, because when I get in front of you, that's when I'm going to win you over.

You know, Carolyn, what you did really well is you called out and addressed their frustration, and it made it. You were vulnerable, and it kind of made it real. And I think maybe that was the point I saw. Maybe Tom lowered his guard a little bit. Sounds like you're a little frustrated. Like, that was great.

Yes. So there's a slide that I want to. I want to put up really fast here. So, Brandon, I'm just trying to look over to see it real quick before we put up the slides. It Is right. Nope. Just in case you're wondering, this is a live podcast where we don't edit here in the Tom Ferry show. That one right there, Carol, can you see that slide? So for my friend that's maybe listening only, the slide that I just put up says over half of expired sellers have not relisted in 2025. So the actual number of homes that didn't sell that were put on the market didn't sell in 2025 is 2.4 million homes that expired. 1.3 million of them have still not relisted. So. So, Carolyn, that's like a perfect setup for my friend listening right now. They're like, okay, I'm gonna do it. I got it. Like, it'll, it'll be wonky in the beginning and I, I won't be ready for the objections. You know, who cares? Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna work through it like anything else. I didn't, I didn't stop driving a stick shift car because it was hard in the beginning. I didn't stop riding a bike because it was awkward. I just kept going and then I became confident. How long do you follow up and what is your follow up plan, Carolyn?

So, and like, you know, we had chatted and there's not a one size fits all. You, you do what works for you. But for me, the policy that we have, because we're really working a team on expireds because I'm excited about this year. So we've got like about five people that are going to be calling like crazy. So. But I think for my rule for the most part is, is that okay, this is the biggest mistake I hear a lot of people make right out of the gate. Leave a message every time. Don't bother calling and not leave a message because it's a waste of your dial. So, so always leave a message. And then if I don't know, if I have them, like if there's no personal voicemail and I didn't get them, then maybe we drop something off, maybe we send a personal note, maybe.

What would be the message you'd leave?

The message that I leave all the time for the first time now, it would be, hi, Jeff, this is Carolyn Young with Samson Properties. I saw your property come off the market and I'm wondering if it's still for sale. Give me a call as soon as you can because I don't want to leave a nice message. It's a little bit like, I need to talk to you right now. Yeah, they normally call back that makes.

Me think, like, maybe I call this person, maybe she's got a buyer, maybe I need to talk to her.

But you don't want to leave a message. I could sell your house or none of that stuff.

You don't want to do a sales presentation, call me back.

I need to know. And sometimes if, you know, I, they don't call back. The next time I'll call and I'll just say, hey, this is Carolyn Young with Samson Properties. I left you a message. Hey, it's really important that I talk to you. Can you please call me back? And then, you know, you just, you have to make them feel they need a call.

So what I'm hearing is you only really get three or four objections. You're not going to try to do your presentation on the phone.

No, you don't want to go. Most of the time if you ignore their objections and go to that, you care how they're upset, you don't even talk about the objection.

Yeah, didn't even love that.

Yeah, it's like, I think it's for my friend listening. It's the. I hear you. Like, hey, I'm really sorry about the situation. The good news is I specialize in this area of helping people repackage, refresh, reposition their home to get it sold. And all I need is, you know, 15 or 20 minutes and I'll walk you through my process. And I mean, hey, you know, you could do, you could say yes to me right now. I can come over this afternoon. And, you know, it would be really smart for you to put your phone on do not disturb and don't take any more phone calls for the rest of the day because you're just going to get bombarded for the next few days. And hey, if you really want to do it right, change your voicemail to hey, if you're a real estate agent, I've already relisted with Carolyn Young. Please don't leave a message. Like, I, I would literally be that you have for my friend listening. You have nothing to lose, and you have a whole new lead pillar to gain. And you want to talk about Carolyn, speak to this a past client who loves you, someone that put it on their home, you know, on the market with somebody else, and it didn't sell. And then you followed up with great diligence, repackaged, refresh their home. Got it. Sold. Carolyn, do those people ever refer you friends or.

They, they are. You are, they're here. Oh, you can just go online and look at my Zillow. Reviews people, the sellers. Just because a lot of the expireds, they're just like, you're a hero. You are a hero. Like, so when you think you're bugging these people, they are the most appreciative and thankful people that, that you called. And someone will be like, I'm so glad you called me 10 times. I'm glad you called me 15 times.

Carolyn, tell that story about the 17.

Follow ups that you just, you know, I'm not calling as much. I'm trying to help with the team, but it's kind of fun. And that's the other thing. You gotta have fun while you're doing it. You cannot take yourself seriously. You don't care if they hang up on you, don't care if they yell. I was training someone. Yes. Day four yesterday. He came in the office with me and I was dying because we, he made so many mistakes, but we were just laughing. But hey, you know what? He stayed on the phone for two hours and got two appointments. So. But I would say like, yeah. So one of the agents said, hey, this is a nice listing. I've got the lady her phone number and it's her voicemail and I want you to call her. So I called, I had a brief conversation and she sounded like she might be open but had talked to her husband. No commitment. So I said, okay. So she told me I could call her back. I called her back, she didn't answer.

So this is like months ago, right?

It was like about 60 days ago. Yeah. And so every once in a while I'm like, you know what, I'm just gonna call that lady again. So you don't call and say, I'm calling, I'm calling. You call with the re. Hey, look, you know, I know that we chatted. You're trying to get with your husband. I want to make sure you know the house down the street sold. And I just want to let you know how that relates to your property value. So call me back when you're free. Let's talk.

And then I'd call something of value, right?

Yeah. I'm going to be in your neighborhood. Are you going to be home? I want to stop by. I want to meet you face to face. You know, you just keep calling with stuff, you know, and so I just kept leaving her messages and, and, and then I did one time, left her a message. I said, look, I don't know if something changed. I said, but if it did, let me know because I'm one of those people that always follows up and you're going to keep getting messages from me until you let me know not to call you anymore. So is that okay? Not call me? And so I called her yesterday, and it was like the 17th time, and it was her name, Trellie. And she answered. I said, charlie. She goes, oh, my God, you are so persistent. And that's why we want to list with you. Thank you for calling. I never even met her. She says, but I was going to call you today. I'm going through a divorce and we had a lot of legal stuff, and that's why I just couldn't bear to talk to you at that time. She says, but we're in agreement. We're ready.

That's great.

So people need help. You just got to reach out.

That is the mindset. People need help.

So.

So, Jeff, talk about this texting strategy that your great client Jesse has been doing.

Yeah, Jesse's out. Jealous. Jesse saw us out in San Diego. He sends this text message and then he's got a. What he calls his re energized plan. He asked them to take a look at this, and then he either either emails it or FedEx it to them. And it's really catching their attention because, you know, Tom, it goes through. It has case studies in there. He talks about how to re remarket, refresh, re energize, reposition, all those words that kind of sellers want to hear about. I think it gives them a whole lot of credibility. And, you know, if you think about it, if you send that or deliver that, there's probably a better chance that when you follow up with a phone call, they may take your call, if you think about that as well. So he's getting. So he's getting a lot of traction from that. And these are kind of the words that he says, this is what we need to do on your property as well.

I love it. It's like, hey, so we need to. We need to re energize your home. Which means we need to, you know, refresh, re engage, reposition, remarket so you guys can get this home sold and move on. For my friend listening, if you're. If you're. Again, if you're on audio only, first of all, thank you so much for listening. This sort of emergency podcast opportunity for you to go help so many people, I would say race over to tomferry.com click on the podcast there, because we're going to link up all these samples, all these slides, all these letters so you can take full advantage of this and get out there. And help more people. So, Carolyn, we're going to wrap in a minute here because again, we wanted to just kind of do this fast. I just want to say publicly how proud I am of you when I, When I think about the growth that you've had and how many, how many conversations you and I and Hans have had over the years where, you know, you watching Tom Toole talk about expireds at a, you know, a practicing scripts and dialogues event, you're like, if that knucklehead, I love you too. I'm gonna beat him. I can do this. And now seeing, like, give, give my friend listening context. How many transactions will you and the team do this year?

So it's, you know, and I always like, because we're talking to people that are trying and I'm trying because. Trying to be more relatable. But it was when I started with you, I was doing about 40 or 50, right. And then I. You guys helped me so much. But I'm so grateful for you. You're. I'm grateful. That's the, that's the thing. I'm grateful for you guys. And Jeff, you've been my coach the whole time. But yeah, we're growing this year to do 625 transactions. We're on admission next year for 850. But it could sound a little unrelatable, but I. It doesn't even matter like what you want to do. Everybody builds their own thing. But there's so much darn business out there with expires, you don't pay referral fee, you don't pay up front. It's no cost. It's pick up the phone and call and make your appointment. So that's the first year I went in. That's why I did it, because I said I don't have to invest any money. I just gotta, you know, get the software that has the leads and make the phone calls.

So, yeah, and the thing, and I know Jeff would reiterate this for my friend listening, you know, 625 sales may sound like just like an office, right? And Carolyn, like her team, she basically is a company and yet it's not the number, it's who she's become in the process. She went from I work only, you know, by Referral. You know, 40 transactions a year. I'm going to take on something that is way outside of my comfort zone. And then that catapults are over a million dollars in gci. And then when you add that chart, Carolyn, of your growth that Jeff gave me once and it, It's. It's the growth mindset. It's being willing to. To, like, start over new and fresh, right? And then, like, oh, I don't know everything. I'm out of my comfort zone. That's how you do it, my friend. So for my friend listening, there's a lot of Zen learnings in understanding Carolyn's story. You should definitely follow her on Instagram.

Can I ask Carolyn one question? Go. Why are you. Why are you so coachable? Like, I learned early on, I said, call 25 people thinking, like, she's not going to do it, and come back the next week. You're like, I did 27. This sucks, but let's do it again.

But, you know, Jeff has asked me that every time, and I've never been. And I think I actually just figured out the answer to that.

Right.

I really did. I think the reason is. Is because it's what Tom always says about how you feel. And if you. I honestly, this just hit me last week. I am not kidding. Because everyone's like, why do you drive so hard? Why do you drive so hard? It's like, because if you choose to not make your call so you can stay comfortable, if you choose to not get out of bed in the morning because you don't want to be fit or do your workout or start your day, good, you're choosing comfort over growth. And when I decide I want to do something, I don't care how I feel. I don't care that I wake up that morning feeling like crap, and I feel like that nobody's going to want to talk to me. I. I have a goal in the. No matter how I feel, I'm going to make my calls anyway. So that's what it is. Tom always says, you know, f the way I. I don't. That is, I don't care how I feel. I just do it anyway. And then essentially, it works out.

Level 10. No apologies, just going for it. So. All right, my friend, listening. Make sure you follow Carolyn. And if you're not following the Jeff Mays on Instagram, you gotta follow him there, too. Thank you so much for being a part of this emergency podcast. I love you both. Happy, happy, merry Mary. And I will see you on the other side. All right. Hey, if you haven't liked and subscribed and done all those silly little things, you know, it's always good for the pod. If you haven't, hey, maybe made a little review on what we do and how we do it, I would love that as well. All right. Can't wait to see you in 2026, guys.

Thanks so much.

We're out.

Thanks, Carolyn.

See you guys.

Sam.