Finding Your Flow And Harnessing Your Energy with Chad Mureta from Project EVO

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Hello, my friends. Welcome back. Welcome back to the show. Today's gonna be a very interesting and fun episode for me, and we are not going to talk at all about growth hacks and tactical business strategies to ramp your revenue and all that other stuff that we usually dive into. If you've been listening to the show for a long time, you know that. And I take great pride in the fact that every single one of these episodes can be tactically implemented where you can take something, run with it, apply it to your business. And one of the reasons is because whenever I have guests on the show, I only invite people that I have authentic curiosity about what they're doing, how they're doing it, why they're doing it, and if I'm going to spend my time talking to them, I want to learn something that I can apply as well. I'm not here just to kill time. I'm a very busy man. Very big deal. But that being said, today is no different. It's just not tactical business strategies. It is arguably much, much, much more important to talk about the topic we're going to talk about today, which has to do with this state of flow and working inside your specific area of genius. And I'll be honest that I've struggled with this throughout my life and I have taken multitude of personality profiles and assessments and things that have really, really helped me and guide me along the way. And much of my own journey has been more of a process of elimination going, nope, that doesn't work. Nope, that's not me. Nope. Hate that. Nope.

Suck at this.

Next. And I feel like sometimes that I'm just whittling away and then it's like eventually you find where your area of flow and genius is, and then, you know, sometimes I get afraid that I'll figure it out at 80 years old and then fall over dead. That being said, it is such a critical thing to overall happiness and full engagement in what you're doing that I invited a friend of mine who has got a very innovative solution to this that is really taking the entrepreneurial world especially by storm and has got some massive proponents of it and the things that he and his partner are doing to help people find their flow and uncover who they are and what they do best. It's just remarkable. So I'm bringing him to you today. His name is Chad Moretta. So Chad is. He's an entrepreneur, he's an author, he's a speaker, and he is the co founder of Project Evo. That's evo, which, as I mentioned, they help entrepreneurs and professionals and anybody who's really trying to grow, find that flow, uncovering their area of genius, who they are, what they do best. And since 2009, Chad has been in the lead of the development and marketing of more than 100 mobile apps, including the very first emoji app for iOS that's been downloaded worldwide more than, get this, 155 million times. So the guy knows a lot about how to succeed. And I'm really looking forward to diving into this conversation because it is a topic near and dear to my heart. I guarantee, no matter where you're at, it's something that you are always thinking of. And I have not yet gone through Project Evo and taken my own assessment. So I'm gonna come in as, let's just say, ignorant about this entire process as you guys are, and I'm hoping that we lead to some really cool discoveries together. Chad, welcome to Bacon Wrap business, my brother.

Yeah, brother. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me excited for chat here today.

Yeah, me too. So where to start? I mean, we always like to start a little bit with the journey, and I think that this is probably a pretty good place to start with you, because, I mean, entrepreneur, app business, lot of success there. And then you made a big pivot into working on some of this more mindset stuff, personal development, etc. And I'd love to see how helping other people find their flow fits into your flow. But let's take it back a little bit and let's talk about kind of your journey there.

Sweet. Yeah, I've definitely been a entrepreneur from kind of day one. And, you know, I think there's this whole belief system with a lot of people that aren't entrepreneurs.

They're like, wow.

If you're an entrepreneur, like, wow, that's amazing. And you're doing so many incredible things and you're making all this money. And I mean, really, it's a very hard road to be an entrepreneur. It's not easy.

So, wait, hold on, wait a minute. I've seen multiple people on Instagram in front of Ferraris, by the way, Tell me that entrepreneurism is nothing but glamour.

This is maybe my experience. I see the same Ferraris all the time. I don't know if they're Happy, but there's some beautiful cars. That's for sure.

All the time.

Yeah. And so, yeah, basically just, you know, find myself always being an entrepreneur, working my butt off and it's been an interesting road and I've had some, some success and found my way in real estate way back when, thinking, okay, I really want to nail down this life of like freedom and thinking at that point it was real estate. Having 30 realtors working for you was my answer because I would somehow get all this money from them passively, which was probably the worst thinking that I've ever had because it really led me down this path of stress and really unfulfillment. I had no frickin time ever. And it was the worst time in history to open up a real estate company back then 2006, 2007. So yeah, that's really what started for me because I put all my money into this bucket and worked my ass off to get to a point where I was like, I've made it. I, I finally made it. I can be that guy with a Ferrari and Instagram, I can enjoy this incredible life. And like most of us, I found that, you know, that road was very, very painful. And I experienced burnout and got in a bad car accident, almost lost my arm and was like, what the heck am I doing? This is bullshit. And so, you know, really looked within myself at that time in a hospital bed thinking there's got to be another way, maybe it's me, maybe there's a different vehicle. So real estate might not be the answer. And found myself, thank the Lord, found myself in a position where my buddy came to me and gave me this article about apps. And so not being a technical person at all, just being a hustler. And I found myself outsourcing for the first time and wiring money to India to finally get into this elusive app business that just started, by the way.

Yeah, what year was that?

That was 2009. January. So 10 years ago. And I found myself making money. I launched it, started making passive and I was like, yes, I found the answer. This is the answer. I can finally make money. I knew I had it in me and I started building up really amazing app companies and selling them off. And like you said, Emoji is one of the first apps I did And I was a.k.a. living the dream. Now that dream lasted for so long until I reached burnout again. And now I'm like, what the hell? I'm making good money. I'm able to travel and do what I'm able to do. And I'm writing a book and I'm getting burned out again. Like, what the hell is going on? Is this actually the way that life is? And so it put me into this interesting place where I started looking within my friends patterns, my own patterns, life in general. And I'm like, what causes burnout? What causes this place of like stress and cortisol levels? Which by the way, as you know, it's the number one killer, right? Stress, the number one killer. And so I just became really obsessed with this idea of finding out how to really show up in a way where I could make a lot of money, have my freedom and not freaking kill myself. And so, you know, spend a lot of time around Tony Robbins and working in that group and doing a lot of training and became really, really curious with how can I use technology that I've sort of become an expert at with apps and bridge it into this understanding of who we are and what we do best. And so that was a big pivotal moment. I think. You know my business partner, Arman.

Yeah, I can't even remember where I first met Arman, but golly, it's been a while.

Yeah, yeah. So he's been one of my best friends for like six or seven years. And we really just molded into this mastermind group and started talking about it. And you know, we had a very similar vision and he wanted to write a book. And I was like, okay, maybe there's an assessment that we can put together here and really track and see not only like how we're wired, like, how would we do this? I think entrepreneurship, a large part of it is like the questions that you ask, you know, what are the questions that you ask to get the answers that you're looking for. And so I remember being, being with him and really sitting down and saying, how do we actually solve this? Is this something that you can solve or is this just bullshit? Is life, no matter what, full of all this stress and we're going to break ourselves down anyway and we just shouldn't worry about it? And so we started inquiring and coming together and it was really an incredible moment where we kind of knew that, okay, we have to build an assessment. And not only that, but, you know, like Myers Briggs strengthsfinders, all these great assessments, once you take them, it's like, what next? Right? People just sit there and they're like, well, shit, I have my hands in my pocket. Yeah, maybe I'm inpf, whatever the hell that means. But I have no roadmap.

That probably is the single biggest problem you just said with a lot of these assessments is, that's great, I've got a little insight, but back to work.

Exactly.

It's given me clues. Some of them have given me more clues and pathways, but a lot of them have not really quite, quite generated the flow that I seek.

Agreed. Yeah. So it's like you can't. It's hard to realize that potential. And I think that was the obsession that we both came together at. We're like, okay, how do we type somebody in a way that is like Jungian psychology, that's been grandfather of psychology and use our own take on it, but also find a way to hold someone's hand once they understand their type and give them results, get them to realize their type, get them to realize their potential with the hallucination of, once they do that, holy shit, they're actually going to be happier. Once they do that, their KPIs are all going to rise. And if they do that, like, wow, what a ripple effect. And so, like any good obsession thought, we became the experiment with that and started, you know, really going into this assessment piece and typing ourselves. And yeah, it's been an incredible journey. We met somebody that basically is an expert in this field and we spent two and a half, three years bringing hundreds of thousands of people through our assessments to really get to a point of understanding without a shadow of a doubt, not only how they process information and make decisions, but also how they see the world and how they can actually get their own flow. So at the end of their day, they're not going to smoke weed and watch TV every single day and just be like, I'm done with my day. But they feel nurtured, they feel alive. And that's been really where we're at right now. We launched on Kickstarter last January. We broke some records there. The number one funded planner.

No way.

Yeah, yeah, we did like 1.1, 1.2 million on Kickstarter. And so it's been an amazing journey where, yeah, we're finally getting to a point where we have all these customers that, you know, they've taken the assessments, they've gotten their type, they've got their personalized planner. Right. That's actually right here, personalized planner made for them. And then now they're actually getting data and using it every day. And, you know, essentially what I call. It's like mining the data of yourself, you know, every day. So how do I actually. If I knew what you're doing every day, which I don't what do you do every day? If I told you.

I probably would.

What did you say? Like watching Netflix and smoking weed. That's all I do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it doesn't sound like a bad Friday and Saturday night, but not an everyday thing. So, yeah, basically it's like, you know, finding a way to mine that data and just help people become more of who they are. Thinking that once we do that, that the alignment piece because I mean, I believe that people right now we live in a pretty chaotic, fast paced world where people are just not aligned. And so if you look at all the studies, if you look at a lot of these major studies are just coming out where not only are 90% of people hate their job, but they're also unfulfilled and they're depressed and there's a portion that are suicidal because without that purpose, you're lost. You're just lost completely. So we've really attacked that space and had incredible results just getting people aligned with who they are.

Yeah, I love that. And in a moment we'll dive into some of the actual specifics of your assessment and how it's kind of different and et cetera. But there's a handful of questions that I want to talk about. I think I know this, but maybe for my audience sake, the difference between flow and fun. Right. So it's very easy to say, what are all the things you'd enjoy doing? Like you love and do that. That's find your passion. I think that's some of the most. That platitudinal advice is some of the most shallow.

Find something you love.

A lot of people, I think they end up defaulting to what do I just like to do? Like what's fun, right? Yeah, it's easy to find a lot of things that are fun, but that doesn't necessarily equate to flow. Right. So how would you, for some people out there who've kind of been getting that advice and getting stuck on that treadmill of. Well, there's a lot of things I like to do, etc. But is this my flow? How do I know?

Good question. I think there is a big misconception with flow. Flow is actually work, right. There is a point of resistance when it comes to flow. And so if you look at every major athlete or you look at someone performing, you know, they're not just sitting there. I mean, yes, they're enjoying it, but like, you know, they're actually in it. They hit a speed that is enough resistance and enough passion and they hit that frequency that allows them to just lock in. And, you know, flow is kind of a generic way of, like, you know, trying to articulate what that is. And I think we have it in our days, you know, when we take care of ourselves and we're on point and we have intentionality and, you know, we call flow when you focus on the right things for your brain type. So every brain type has different things to focus on, and once you focus on those things, you know, you start to thrive. And so that's the big piece for us. That's flo. But, yeah, it definitely is not just all fun at all. There is some work to it. And it is something too, that for most people out there, there is a learning curve. So it is a little bit hard. You do get better at it. You do flex the muscle. But it is a consistent state that you get yourself into that requires you to actually play full out. You can't just sit there with your hands in your pockets, you know, waiting for it to happen to you. Flow doesn't just typically happen.

Yeah. It's that point where it's just. Even though it's hard, it feels a little. Not effortless.

Right.

And there's a big difference. But you're doing hard work. You're doing something that is not easy to do. You've maybe worked a long time to make it feel this effortless. And it's maybe that combination of natural ingrained talent or natural ingrained. Not even talent, because talent's, you know, developed. But it's that plus your. Just your natural inclinations. Like, all of some of us are more creative than others. Some of us are just more methodical. And, you know, somebody may be super methodical in doing accounting and bookkeeping and just like, really complex financial stuff. And it's stuff that I want to just go nuts like, hell no. But somebody else. It's hard work, but they're focused, and there's a part of it. It just lights them up. They're like, I'm fully engaged. I always think of that power that. There's a great book, too, called the Power of Full Engagement. And I think full engagement and flow are like kissing cousins. Prob. And I know that I think I've talked about this on the show before, but it's always been funny for me where I've had a hard time creating what I consider goals, especially smart goals in my life, which are those specific measurable. What is it? Actionable, something blah, blah, blah, where I say, and this is for my life, right? It's easy to create business goals. Like, all right, we need to do, you know, the company needs to do a million dollars next quarter. We need to do this much acquisition. But for me, I've always preferred fuzzy goals. And to me, fuzzy goals are a little bit better because they're much more like aspirations than goals. So instead of me saying, I need to make a million dollars a year, $10 million a year, and I want to live at this place and I want to drive this car and I want to have this, none of those actually created any energy in my body. And then it was funny because I set goals for myself or these aspirations. And I almost did this out of frustration. I said, look, I've got three things I want out of life. I want to be fully engaged. In what? In the work that I'm doing, meaning I want to enjoy it, I want to be good at it. I want to be engaged. And number two, I want to be financially rewarded. I want to make really good money. It was so hard for me to actually set a dollar value on it because really, after a few hundred thousand dollars, right, you can live pretty darn what you want. Now, granted, do I want the millions of dollars a year in income and all of this? Yeah, absolutely. That's great. But as a goal, no. I want to be fully engaged. I want to make really good money, and I want to work with people who I love and inspire me. And it's funny how when I look back at the past, especially the past few years, where, you know, I've started to just accidentally find my flow in some areas and not in others, but I'm pretty fully engaged in what I do. Like, I like what I do. I make really good money, and I work with amazing people who inspire me, and I get to talk to people like yourself and stuff. I'm like, oh, that's kind of cool. When I look back, I'm like, abby, damn it. Maybe I've achieved some of this stuff, but I will say the one thing that I constantly struggle with is I find a lot of things engaging, personally. Like, oh, I can be really engaged in this for a while. And then, you know, my ADD kind of so over and, like, now I'm engaged in this. So trying to find that real common thread of what really is my flow. How do I do more of it and get much more focused on that and still take care of the. What I call it, feeding the animals. Like, how do I still take care of that other stuff and remain in flow as much as possible? And I cannot tell you how many subjects of my journal, my morning journaling this has been. And it is frustrating.

Yeah, no, for most people. So this is. I mean, I think you've nailed it on a lot of levels. I think you found your way to get into, like, what works for you, but primarily it's following energy. Right? So, like, flow gives you energy. If you're working all day on a certain thing and it drains you, that's not flow. So I think finding ways to give all the energy and to lean into that is one of the most important things. And then the second piece to that, which you talked about, and a lot of people don't do this. This is why I'm so damn passionate about it, is you have these data points. Like we. If we sat down and watched you, whatever the hell you're doing and looked at, okay, these are the activities that get you flow, and these are the things that take away from flow. We just had those little data points over the course of a month, two months, three months, we would be able to become a lot more aware of how to get you back into flow. Right. And if you are more into flow and you are enjoying more things, and if you are just tweaking it a little bit, what does that look like in your life? How does that compound, you know, like, we work so hard. You are in a great spot now, I'm assuming at some point in your life, it wasn't that easy. You weren't finding your flow, and you were probably pretty frustrated.

It's taken a long time, and I'm still not even 100% there because I still find myself doing stuff that I'm like, why am I doing this? Because sometimes it just feels necessary. And I know it is true. You have to feed the animals. Sometimes you got to do stuff. I can't say this, but maybe you've seen some people. Nobody's in flow all the time. It's a state you reach, but nobody is in this perfect flow, state of bliss at all times. We all have to shovel shit once in a while. But I think the key which we'll dive into more here is how do you really clarify what your flow is? Because that's the one area I don't mind having. Fuzzy life goals, because fuzzy goals and aspirations. I don't mind being in the river of life and letting it see, playing with synchronicity and letting it take me to another place where it's like, man, I wanted to do this, but totally open to new opportunities. Because those synchronicities and chain reactions that lead to completely unexpected opportunities are I think, the juice of life. Right. But the one thing that I don't want to be fuzzy is what is my state of flow and how do I get there as often as possible and do it more? And especially because, you know, going back to that quote, I'll find it exactly for the show notes here. Right. But when we were having dinner the other night, it was funny, I was reading a great book by Gay Hendricks called the Big Leap and it's really best selling book. It's amazing. And in it they were talking about flow. How the quote was that flow always wins. If you have any doubt, look at the Grand Canyon.

Yes, yes, that's powerful.

If people don't know, shame on you for skipping geology class. But the Grand Canyon was formed, I think it was the Colorado river on a plateau. And it just over thousands, hundred thousands, millions of years, however long. It just slowly that flow created the grooves and it created more grooves and like compound interest, you know, works. It just, just really carved one of the most magnificent things, you know, the, the planet has. And it's flow always wins. And if you're not in flow, so, so let's dive into some of the. Well, actually, before I dive into your methodology, I want to talk about your experience because I, I have to hope that you've kind of identified and found your flow and know what that is. Tell me about kind of the before areas. Like some of the stuff you were doing that really drained your energy and some of your frustrations there and how you kind of found yours and what your flow is. And then we'll dive into the methodology.

100%. Yeah. And just that example of the Grand Canyon is so important because what is it? It's consistency, you know, and I look at the masters that have mastered this and there's a lot of people that have mastered flow. I mean anyone that plays at a crazy high level, this is what they do best. That's it. They don't have crazy spikes up or down, they just have mastered this. And it's maybe not a 10 every day, but maybe it's an 8 every day. And so I think part of it is like the belief system of like what that looks like for us. And for me, I spend a lot of my time being in the roller coaster, you know, going being a 10 one day, then being a two another day, and then being an eight and then trying to biohack myself and trying to learn more, trying to do big deals and really being like at the end of the day, like a caveman just throwing shit up against the wall, seeing what stick.

I will say right now, I'll just interject very transparently. You are describing, I think, me at this exact moment. So keep going. Like, I'll hit those flows, I'll see it, and then I'll be down here. And then it's like, ah, caveman throw shit at the wall. So keep going. This is fantastic.

Yeah. So I found myself there, and I think a lot of people find themselves there. This is a normal place, especially for entrepreneurs, because we're not that aware of internally what's going on with ourselves and what finding our flow is and what, like, actually is sustainable. Because I think we all have this, like, dopamine hit, and it's an addiction. I mean, entrepreneurship at the end of the day is an addiction that we want to do the next big deal and we get energy from these things and at the cost of our own health most of the time. And so, you know, there's very few people that I know of where I see that are in sync and showing up as an eight every single day. And so, you know, what my journey looked like most was just this burnout phase. And also just this frustration of, like, my own certainty in my brain and trying to find sustainability in the smog and chaos of life and not really finding it. Finding my highs, sure. Finding my lows, for sure. I would build up a company, work my ass off, not sleep for days and days and days, sell it off. And oh, shit, now I gotta take months off just to recover until I do it again. And that type of, like, belief system. And then what that's supposed to happen is the most insane fucking thing I've ever seen in my life. And this is what we subscribe to. Most people subscribe to this way of life, especially being an entrepreneur. So what I found when we got deep into this journey was, okay, how do I actually set my day up properly? Because it all starts with being intent flat. I think what you said was really great, too. Like, the river of life. There's flexibility, you know, there's fluidity. You don't want to be. Put your flagpole in and not be too rigid not to, like, see the signals of flexibility. Right.

Well, and playing on that metaphor a little bit more, it's like, if you think about the river of life really is. It's not a. It's never a smooth river. It's not just, like, easy flow. It's rapids. Right? Life is the rapid flow. And if you're in the rapids and you find a tree branch and you hold onto that tree branch, that can be a good place to kind of get your breath or whatever. But if it's really flowing and the more you hold onto that, it's going to whip you around and it's going to maybe whip you up against a rock nearby and all that other stuff. If you're holding on so damn tight to your little branch, this is my thing. It's going to beat you up. And it's oftentimes not until you let go and let flow. Let go, go with the flow. I mean, all these things are cliches, but for a reason. And as long as it doesn't slam you up into a rock, I mean, which happens. But if you kind of just let it go and don't resist so much, that's oftentimes how you navigate down the river. I've been actually pretty good at that. Some people aren't as good at it. Some people, like just internally, they're not as flexible. I'm a little bit more flexible and I say, fuck it, go. But the problem is sometimes, like, I think I just sometimes go with the flow too much, but just where it takes me, as opposed to intentionally saying, all right, I'll go with the flow, but I'm kind of going this way. So anyway, just to kind of.

Yeah, no, I love that. It's a great analogy. And the biggest piece that I've found is like, once we created this assessment and I found out, like, I'm an explorer, right? So I was able to look at my life and really understand myself, you know, like, why every day I want to do adventures, I want to have fun. Why all these to do's, you know, Because I think a lot of times we don't see ourselves and we compare ourselves with others, right? And we feel bad. So my brain has never been in a position where I've got 50 things on a checklist and I'm just rocking it out. I've never had really good structure at all. I've never wanted to be controlled by my day or anybody or have this rigid schedule. And so I found myself thinking I was having freedom by just showing up and like, all right, day, let me just like rock it, not even knowing what the hell that meant. And so when I got the. When we built this assessment and I saw that, okay, I not only need to 100% make sure that I have fun in my day and I plan fun, but I also realized that my brain only needs one Thing, it's in chunks. So one thing in the morning, one thing in the afternoon, one thing in the evening, and if I get into the habit of just focusing on those things and doing those things, then I'll feel better. And if I feel better, I'll enjoy my day. I'll show up better. And then that compounds onto that secondarily. What I also found is I have a lot of patterns. Believe it or not, you know, like everybody, I have a lot of patterns that once I'm tracking my day, which Evo is all about tracking, too, once I'm tracking my day, I start seeing these patterns and I start understanding when I'm not doing so good in my days and why that is. And this is a very obvious thing that if we all just sat down and put a journal and wrote, it would be somewhat easier to understand how to get a better day tomorrow. But most people don't do this.

You know, it's funny just along those lines, and I haven't seen Inside the Projectivo journal yet, but it reminds me of what one of my really, really good friends and former guest on the show, Sean Stephenson. You ever met Shawn? He's three feet tall, wheelchair, but one of the most amazing public speakers and just human beings ever. So he's got this thing called his When Life Works worksheet, and it's a tracker. So he's identified all of the things, like When Life Works really well. He's like, these are the things I did. Like, I got a good sleep. I'm well hydrated, I kissed my wife, or I had sex, or I did this, or I talked to a client or something. And he's got, I don't know, like, 20 different things. And then he tracks them out in a worksheet over the course of the month. And it's interesting. I'll actually send you a version of what he's got, because what's interesting is he rates at the top. And number one, like, how many of these did I do today? Like, what percentage? Like, 70%. And then he rates on a level of 1 to 10, I think his mood and his productivity. So if his productivity was a 10 and his mood was a 10, and he goes, there's an almost perfect correlation that I did a lot more things in my day of When Life Works, I did these. And if I had a crappy mood or I wasn't productive, he looks down and he accomplished, like, 20% of his when Life Works habits. And I thought that was interesting. I don't know if that has Any correlation to what you guys do. But it kind of made me think about that.

Yeah, it's a similar framework in the sense of there's obviously wisdom nuggets that we know that we can focus on, and we call it like the key things to thrive. So Instead of having 20 things per type, per brain type, we have like a few things, and so that's what we focus on. But yeah, it's a very similar principle that every day we can really understand why we had. And some things are out of our control for sure. But I think inherently we can do way better at controlling our day and doing the things that we want to be doing. That's really the second piece of evo that's so powerful is that we have this app that you use with the planner where you scan and we start using machine learning to aggregate all this data. So you start really understanding it. And that's an empowering piece. You know, where a few years ago I was just again, a caveman, throwing shit against the wall, not knowing really what affected my day or how I should do things and trying to fit in everybody else's schedules and routines. I think also the big piece is like, when you work in a team and you understand their type and you understand their wisdom nuggets of what makes them better, then you start getting compassion and really working with them in a way that fuels them. Because we're leaving this world of, okay, I want to just get productive and push everybody until burnout. That just doesn't work anymore. This is a piece of not only your own self realization, but also with your wife, your friends, your teammates, like, really going deeper with understanding the way that they work with their own flow and being sort of this accountability sort of person to help them be better, since once they're better, you're better. And I think that's really what we're leaning into that's. That's getting such a viral sort of component to our mission.

So let's go into a little more detail just on you and your flow right now. So you mentioned you're an explorer, and we'll dive into that nomenclature for, you know, as. Because it's a project Evo thing, but just qualitatively, what is your flow? What are you doing? What's it like?

Yeah, so my flow I was going into a little bit was like, not only do I do one thing. Morning. So I chunk my schedule. I focus on a few things that work for me really, really well, which is, you know, I actually have this fun task that I schedule for myself. Just like some people, you know, schedule. You know, like, they have certain meetings, certain things that they're doing. They have salsa. I have to do that. If I don't do that in my day, which. It sounds easy. It's like, oh, well, you just have fun. No, it's actually a step further than that. It's like, I have to schedule and know that this thing lights me up. Because when I start my day, if I know that's in my day, then my day changes. And it isn't a just. I'm going to just throw something in the calendar. It's something that I really have thought through.

So what kind of. When it comes to work, what lights you up? What makes you feel fully engaged in flow? Utilizing the best of the best of Chad?

For me, it's. It's. And, you know, we have a deeper assessment that goes into our craft. So I'm a creator, so I want to be creating, and I want to be creating stuff with people that I'm inspired by. So I'm a great maximizer in the sense of I don't necessarily like to do the busy work and, like, the raw material part, but what I am good at is jumping in once I see that and being like, look, we do this and this. It's going to add, you know, it's going to double conversions or like, I, you know, drew out, like, evo. I drew out, like, a lot of this stuff, you know, that you see, pick the colors and pick the way I look. Like that lights me up, you know, getting into that creation mode. And so there's specific tasks like that that now I focus on. So with my team, like, I'll go in and I'll say, okay, say, you know, with Amazon, I'm a maximizer and I'm an explorer. So it's like a visionary. There's all these parts to each type. And so I'll go in and I'll be like, okay, how do we make the pictures look better? Let me focus on maybe some of the copy. Let me focus on the way we're communicating this stuff.

So a lot of the creative elements.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. A lot of the creative elements. And obviously being around people that I can link into. So if I was to meet with me, I would be pretty pissed because I wouldn't want to work with someone just like me. So I need somebody like an architect, which Armand is an architect that can realize my potential because he works completely different than me and opposite than me. So I also am going a Step level and saying, who are the people? Like, my assistant is an architect. Thank God for my assistant. I would be around. I don't know what I would do in my day if I didn't have her. But you complement each other, so it's actually finding people to compliment you so you can execute what you're looking to do. And so I've just been very efficient with lining up my days with those type of people, you know?

And you bring up something really important there, too, about whether it's your partner, employees, or people like that. Like, you wouldn't like to work with somebody who's exactly like you. I actually think just to kind of pick that apart. I think we like to work with somebody who is just like us. But that's the problem. We like it, but it doesn't work. It doesn't mean it's productive, but we get sucked in. It's like, oh, my God, you're just like me. We're twinsies. Let's start a business together. But then we're both wanting to work on the same stuff, and then the other stuff doesn't get done because neither of us like to do it. And that is a thing that you usually have to learn by experience. And you go, crap. Like, my very first business succeeded. It was an information product. And it succeeded specifically, in retrospect, because we were opposites. I was the creative, he was the technical, and I'm super extroverted. He's probably more introverted. And it worked like magic. Our very first business was a success. And it's rare to say that I've had other businesses fail because I worked with people who are identical to me. And I was like, well, this was fun. We had a lot of good brainstorming sessions, but nothing got done right.

Exactly. No, that's a great point. And I totally agree. It is. It does feel good because you can see each other and you have the same language. But the next level is. And I went back to all my companies that I've created that have worked, and every single business partner I've had was an architect in our system. And it makes sense because it is challenging because you're opposite. So your language is a little bit different, you know, but it is a level of. That's what worked at the time. They needed someone like me, I needed somebody like them. And I think at the end of the day, it's like, we all need each other and we all work with people. I mean, we're not going to get away from that. So when you can align yourself with the right people from a brain type perspective, then you also find your flow because you're doing your part and you're seeing it actualized. And I think for me, as an entrepreneur, when I see that actualized, I'm like, shit, I'm gonna wake up tomorrow and do the same thing. Because that shit feels good versus just sitting, talking back and forth. Yeah.

So let's dive into Project Evo and the assessment and the. And the. I mean, we can talk about obviously, the results of the assessment. So when people go to Project Evo, they'll see you guys have kind of. I'm just telling you what I'm seeing here. So you feel free to then extrapolate this, but you've got four primary brain types, and you've already mentioned yours, but there's the Explorer, the Alchemist, the Oracle, and the Architect. And I love the names, by the way. They're just like, cool and sexy. But let's go into kind of the. What each of these kind of types are and some of the nuances that we need to know. Because you also have some things in here that talk about abstract versus concrete, external versus internal. So splain to me, Lucy, what these are a little bit more.

Totally. So, yeah, I mean, based on our little chart, you can kind of see the different types. And yeah, there's. So like an architect is kind of opposite of me. Right. So that's Oman. The great thing is that we are external world, real world thinkers. So like, we actually align really well. Because it's not as abstract where an Oracle and an alchemist is more in the abstract. They have all these, like, string of thoughts that they bring together in like, multiple realities.

So let me pause right there because I actually think a better way to explain this, especially for folks who are just listening and they're not looking at the graphic that, you know, I'm staring at. So besides the four types there, you have abstract versus concrete. So I kind of want to like, just explore that a little bit more and external versus internal, because I think those matter because the. Where the types are have to do with that. So abstract versus concrete. What more specifically does that mean?

Yeah, it just means that, like, concrete is a. Like the reality of concrete is like a real world thing. So real world thing, it's grounded in a real context that that is an everyday thing that you see versus abstract is it can be anything. You know, it's like waves of thoughts that might not even be real, at least in this reality. And so, you know, a lot of people can come up with their own creative thoughts, but has nothing to do with, you know, an everyday sort of process.

And then internal. External.

Yeah, internal, external. So it's like, do you process internally? So am I processing internally inside first or am I externally processing from the world? So am I getting my information? And this is what's really great about our system is because once you know that you're making decisions based on what you either see externally out in the world or internally, you're bringing in information and you're making it internally, it starts to really give you some aha's with your own decision making ability. And so knowing how you process information first is actually really important to understand yourself.

Okay, cool. And then. Yeah. So the explorer, the alchemist, the oracle and the architect. And you said you're an explorer. So what are some of the other aspects of an explorer?

Yeah, so explorers are a lot of explorers are visionaries and it's real world visionary, but there is this like futurality to it. So you are. Futurality is a word, but it is like this future pacing.

I like futurality. I don't know if that's an actual word, but I like it if it's not.

So it is that piece of like, you know, there's a lot of energy involved. There is this like excitement about, you know, building something, creating something. That's why a lot of visionaries are super creative, because you know, they see it in their head and they create it. You know, explorers are also very, very active. You know, they've got to be in nature. So like an architect or an alchemist necessarily, like everyone loves nature. For sure it helps, but they don't need to be in nature as much or care about the environment. I am so particular about my environment that when I get into a place I have to set it up. I have to make sure that it is clean. It has certain things that gives me energy, that really fuels my energy. I didn't even realize I was doing this before, but I was when I realized when we did our typing system, I'm like, well, I'm going to double down on that. What would that look like? If I was aware enough to actually go to the next level of setting up my environment. And what does it do? It doubles my energy. It makes me feel even more alive. Those are little things that I think you can use to really actualize your type.

Nice. What are some of the other top level characteristics of alchemist, oracle, architect?

Yeah, the alchemist is super creative. They're basically Turning nothing into something alchemy. So when you see alchemists, it's like what they need is they need variety. So the way they set their day up, it isn't like me, where I have these chunks, you know, one in the morning, one in the afternoon, one in the evening. It's actually variety driven and they need to learn stuff. So alchemists love to learn stuff and share information. So they set their day up in a way where they have probably a few things that are different each day. They don't want the same day. It actually drains their energy because again, if you're actualizing your type, you're getting energy, and if you're not actualizing your type, you're getting completely lost in energy. So that's an easy way to know if you're in flow or not really quickly. And so a lot of my alchemist friends, for them, they're setting themselves up to go on little lunch meetings randomly in a city. They travel a lot, they read new books constantly, they share what they're learning and that makes them feel alive. And so an oracle is a mystery, right? Oracle has all these different sort of nuanced thoughts that they can bring together. An oracle on a team is one that it's like, you know, what does this person do? Because they're so mysterious, they're sometimes kind of quiet, but they can wear lots of hats. So an oracle can do a lot of things where I can't do that many things. I can only do what I'm really good at. And Oracle can write sales copy, email something, do a sales call, program something. They can do so many different things. And so they're asset to most teams once they can actually understand how they work. And they get burnt out really quickly when they're around too many people. So they need to put themselves away and create space to think to themselves. They need personal time. So we talk about thriving. It seems really strange that I need to have fun and then they need to go be by themselves. But that's a piece of their brain type that they need to reset to go back out into the world, you know, so that's a big part of it. Now, an architect needs structure. So that's why, you know, every architect I've ever met, they have a list of things. They know it's scheduled, they know they have certainty on their own balance and what they're doing. And, you know, if they don't do that balance, then they get overwhelmed the fastest because they're the ones that are the builders in the world. Every major architect has built some incredible things in the world. They actualize and execute these incredible tasks. Hence why I've been able to do these apps and be successful is because behind the veil is an architect building and creating.

Dude, that's great. By the way, I did take the test. I don't know if you can guess what I am.

I mean, I would say explorer, because it's me. Or alchemist. One of those.

I am an alchemist. I am an alchemist. I'm really interested to see more of the details on that.

That's amazing.

I'd be curious to know, is there, like, a degree of alchemist for explorer? Because it'd be really interesting to see because I have a feeling that I'm between explorer, alchemist, and oracle. I was like, man, a lot of these kind of sound like me in a lot of different ways. And I'm sure that none of us are like, 100% this, the other. Right. Like, we all have degrees of stuff. I'm just curious if you guys output that kind of data. And if not, I think that would be kind of interesting to go. Yeah, you are like, I'm making this up. Like, 70% Alchemist and 30% Explorer. But, like, this is where you are on the spectrum.

Totally. Yeah. So great point. So, yeah, we all. I mean, these are basically the four functions of the brain. So we go back and forth, we tessellate between all. What we identified is like, you know, you primarily spend your energy in one of these pieces. So if you can maximize your day based on that, then it's going to work really well for you. Right. But there is the secondary type that you also can be aware of. So the first and secondary type, you spend most of your time. Right. But there's all four parts of your brain. So the actual brain type that we have is the simplest one we just created. It's called eboa. We have a whole other assessment that identifies exactly what you're saying. It's a huge sort of comprehensive understanding of the percentages in all four types. And then we have this whole thing with the app where as you're scanning and getting data, you can then see how well are you doing at these types. So if you are an alchemist, how well are you utilizing that? And so I think that's the other piece of it. It's like, again, it's not just knowing which type you are. It's like, how well are you doing at that?

By the way, one of the things just to give you feedback on how like degree of accuracy this is what's cool is, you know, as I said, I've taken other a lot of like personality and assessments like this and two of my favorites, like, you know, I've done Myers Briggs and Disc and Strengthsfinder and all these. And I. And all of them have been what I think is fairly accurate. But the ones that have given me the most, I guess direction or like, all right, cool. There's actually something I can do with this. One of them is Roger Hamilton's Wealth Dynamics, which I really like. And the other one is Perry Marshall's marketing DNA. Have you taken that one?

I haven't, no.

So here's what's interesting about the marketing DNA because this is really as it relates to marketing and you get like a four part score. But one of the main things calls me isn't and it's not a type, but it's like an aspect is alchemist. And that's like the main thing. Right. So it's interesting how he doesn't just group it into four things like you guys are doing, but he kind of rates it as okay on one scale it's either like alchemist or the other extreme would be like a producer. And then the other stuff, it's like, are you like live versus recorded words versus images, analytics versus empathy. So it's kind of like these extremes on other ends, but it's just kind of cool and it does show, you know, the degree of consistency and accuracy in what you're doing. That another one that I really liked also kind of framed me in the same thing after taking that test. And I love this because it just once more reinforces you guys also know what you're doing as well.

Yeah. And I think the piece that we've really differentiated and leaned into is the languaging. Right. Because language, I mean, if you look at the beginning of civilization, what spreads things more than language? And so we've really doubled down on how can we language this in a way with these types and even our main aspect assessments where it's sticky enough where you can actually type somebody pretty quickly and understand them. When I found out my mom was an oracle, I understood her. I understand you now. Even though we're friends and we had dinner and talked. I understand you way more now than I did before. Then my mom, I understood her when she was an oracle and I'm like, holy shit, I understand you so much. This is why you took time away to get back to yourself. And it was incredible, like her being seen for the first Time and me seeing her for the first time, as weird as that sounds, because it creates such sticky language. And it's beautiful because it brought us closer together. Our relationship has completely changed because of that. The people we work with in our team, Team Evo, we understand each other more than just like this producing, getting shit done aspect. And I think that's the human piece that is really important to us in this world right now is like, how the fuck can we be humans and come together and help ourselves become more of who we are? Because that's what it is. I mean, the theory is if you can do that and show up and help each other, then you'll produce results in a way that doesn't crush your soul, right?

And you know what's great about this, too? This really is positive stereotyping. So in stereotyping is usually a negative, right? It's like, oh, stereotype that, this, that, and the other. And it's usually based upon culture or race, like, oh, that all Asians are good at math, right? Is a. Is a common stereotype, or, you know, something like that. It's like, oh, well, that's negative. Well, there's two things about that. Number one, I can't remember the exact context of this, but psychologists have done studies that the single most accurate way to predict, like stereotyping is the single most accurate way to that it's so effective. Like, our brains are so honed in on if we can stereotype this person or whatever. The accuracy of that goes beyond anything else, because through evolution and through everything else, I think we recognize patterns subconsciously that they're not always accurate, but they're actually the most accurate. And they can be used negatively for stereotype. Like, all people of this culture or race or this, that or the other are like that. But in this case, it's like, listen, if you can understand the basics of these patterns, et cetera, and you can stereotype this person, that in general, Brad is an alchemist. It doesn't mean that he is all alchemist all the time and that he doesn't have any of these other things. But if I know this, then that allows me to better communicate with him and to understand what makes him tick, what makes him get ticked off, and how to motivate him and how to crush him and all this other crap. So when other people do accept these, you know, for lack of a better word, those positive stereotypes and these profiles and we communicate them with each other, it just. It increases the effectiveness of communication so much more, especially when it's done in a very positive way. And it's funny, like on your page here, I just brought up a little bit more of the description of alchemist and I'll just read it out to everybody so that my listeners can understand me a little bit more. So it's just a few sentences, but it says, alchemists gravitate towards the abstract and theoretical. They prefer experimenting with their ideas in the real world and develop a lot of their key ideas when interacting with other people. So freaking true. They're mostly focused on the future and all the possibilities it holds, which sometimes is debilitating because I see all the possibilities and I've got this very empowering belief that anything's possible. But that is also like, well, crap. I wish I thought some things were more impossible. I wouldn't chase so many fricking squirrels. And then the last part is, alchemists can bring structure to things and work with practical details like an architect if they need to. Very true. But too much time in this kind of work is exhausting and it's not their core strength. And you know, this reminds me of a client I'm working with right now and I worked with for the past two years and it's been great. I was brought on as an advisor and to do higher level consulting on their business growth. And then as time progressed and they lost some resources and I kind of had to step up and actually do more of the stuff and bring structure because that's what they were really starting to say. It was like, well, we'd kind of like to have a, like this kind of on a calendar and structure and more transparency and really just much more weeds, like down in the weeds stuff. It caused tremendous stress for me because number one, I wasn't getting. That's not what I was brought in to do. And although I could do it, that's not my strength. So I recently partnered up with a company here in town and it's an incredible agency. So we've created a strategic partnership too. They took over all of that stuff. And here's what's great. I thought I was about ready to hand the client off and just say, listen, the things they need is not in my area of strength anymore. I'm much more of an alchemist. I actually joked, I said, I'm a savant, not a servant.

But in that kind of alchemist, like you bring me in for my mind and what I can do and the ideation and how it all fits, et cetera. So I was ready to let them go like for them to let me go say, look, if you guys want to phase me out, as they kind of do the work, that's totally cool. And they're like, no, we have been so waiting. Like, this is so perfect that you've actually done this. We actually are going to pay you a 50% higher retainer per month because this is exactly what we. And we want you to interface and do what you do with this team so they can implement all of your amazing ideas. But it's a good thing you actually finally realized that. And I can't tell you the degree of freedom. And it's opened up the floodgates of ideas. And I like being more strategically aligned. They are much more so, like the architects, right, that they're the ones who are going to get that shit done with structure. And as I've aligned with them for myself and for some other clients that we're now potentially working together, it's one of those things that just demonstrates that, yeah, when you do get rid of the things that drain your energy and only allow you to work in flow, not only do I like it better, but my clients were so relieved, they paid me more money.

Yes. Yeah. I think there's a belief that's like, we can't do that. We got to do these other things. But that's such bullshit, you know, like, we have to step into those situations where you can really exercise your genius, but also get energy from it and find people that can do the other pieces of it. I mean, we have to do that. And so I love that story because it's a quintessential story of, like, how you find better alignments. Right. The more aligned you are, the more everything's going to feel better, the less aligned. It's pretty simple math, but these are great examples of, like, now you know, this, maybe the next client, it's like, how do you align Again, this really works. So I want to replicate this model.

Bingo. Yeah. One of my problems is I have the ability to do everything they needed from the structural side. Like, I am frustratingly competent in a lot of stuff, but I'm not the best at a lot of stuff. Right. I'm competent enough to where I can do it, but I shouldn't be doing it. Number one, I don't like to do it. And number two, the work is not nearly as good as if somebody who. If that's their genius. Like, you know, there's that common quote that find somebody who views, like, the stuff that you view as work, hard work, they view as Play right. It's in their flow. Find those people you're not. And the other thing that helped flip my switch on that, of letting go of control, is that think of the gift you're giving somebody. If you have work you hate to do and they love to do it, and you allow them to do it, even if you pay them, I mean, obviously it'll be more productive and better results. But think of the gift you're giving to somebody else if you're giving them a project to work on. That helped me relinquish control and going, well, screw it, I can just do it. I'm going to do it anyway. And all of this, I mean, shit, I'm 45 years old. I've had a lot of ups and downs and more ups than downs, but it still takes a long time to kind of integrate and learn this, because we aren't taught this shit in school. Like, we don't grow up with this.

Exactly.

You got to learn it through trial and error.

Yeah, that's a big piece that, you know, for us and our mission, it's like, I want to rewrite that bullshit system. And we just. We signed up. I can't name the university right now, but we have a university that has agreed to work with us. And we have our own EBO lab. And they're gonna do an official study across a certain amount of time, people, to actually show the KPIs rising. Once we have that credibility, which it just does, we know that it works, then, yeah, we're gonna make some big moves with this thing.

So as far as. And now. So I'm just going through some of the pages here and whatnot. So you take the first brain. What is it called? A brain test, Brain type test or something, and then it tells me what I am, and then it says I can access my Evo Planner. So explain me a little bit about the Evo Planner, what it is, how it helps, what this helps me do.

Yeah, so the Planner is the next step of realizing your potential. So it's a physical planner. And yeah, we've made it like if Apple did a planner. So it is. I can definitely say it's most beautiful planner. It's definitely beautiful. And so we've taken that and we're like, this is your system. So it's something that you can use. And I'm going to get you one, by the way. Hell, yeah. And so you can use that and you basically focus. It's set up so every layout is different for type. So we tested this with every type, you know, through hundreds of thousands of people to see what layout fits best for that type. Right. So your layout looks very different than mine. And there's certain things that you should focus on that I shouldn't focus on. So we have it separated by that, and then we have little bubbles, almost like, you know, you took SATs. You fill out like one to 10 during your day, and then your brain type activity. So once you use your app, you basically scan the information in the planner and then it grabs the data, and that's where we start using machine learning and getting good.

I like that.

It's badass. Now, if you're not a planner person, which some people are, then you can use the app manually and do the same thing. I've found that the planner is just a physical reminder. The physicality of, like, you know, walking up and waking up and doing my planner has really helped my entire life out. I don't know what I would do with it.

You're an app guy, though. Is there a Project Evo app?

There is, yeah. Yeah.

Nice.

There's an app that we have that. Yeah, you get all your data.

I was going to be a little disappointed if the guy who created App Empire didn't have an app as well.

So I'm just saying we got an app. Don't you worry. We got an app for that. So that's basically the full system right now is the planner system with the app and knowing your type, by the.

Way, I'll tell you, like, I don't know if your app does this or not, but, like, what would be super cool if it doesn't already exist? Like, I've just become a massive convert. A client of mine bought me the iPad Pro with the pencil and all this. That was one of those things. Like, I got, like, a MacBook and all this other stuff. I got all the other stuff. I don't need the MacBook. I mean, the iPad Pro, he bought it for me, and I'm freaking obsessed with it. And I use the pencil and the journaling thing all the time. Like, I don't know if you have an iOS version of the journal. Like, I love the physical journal too, but if you do.

Yeah, we're updating right now. Funny that you say that, because, yeah, that's what we're working on right now to bring to. Cause I also am obsessed with that. And having the digital piece of it is very, very useful for people. So.

Yeah, and I just love the fact that, like, I usually have so many journals and I Love paper and all that, but just the fact that I can pull this thing out and write on it, I use it for everything.

Yeah, no, it's fun, it's engaging and at the end of the day it needs to go back to consistency. So if you don't have the planner and you have that digital version, I just want to know how your flow is every day because then I can give you better answers to stay there. So I think that's the biggest piece of the whole system, isn't just like, oh, here's this thing. It's like, no, no, no, let's make it easy for you to actually give us information so you can see it and become aware. Because of the mindfulness piece of showing up and creating, your day is actually on us.

Yeah. And that's critical because, I mean, there's a lot of. What I like what you're saying is there's a lot of like planners out there. You just do it and then, you know, you kind of do it for yourself. But I like the feedback mechanism or the feedback loop that you guys have created so that whenever I do that and as long as I track it, then you guys are giving me data. So I get rewarded for actually taking those actions. Because oftentimes, like if I don't journal one day, nobody knows, nobody cares. There's no consequence of me not journaling. If I don't journal with you guys, I mean the consequences, I don't get really valuable data in return. So I think that's a great feedback loop mechanism thing.

Yeah, yeah. And we'll shock you too. We send you a little bracelet that we shock you and you don't actually scan. That just forces you.

That's awesome. That's awesome. By the way, so what is Arman? Is he an architect or.

He's an architect. Yeah.

I'm guessing I'm gonna have my wife do this, but I'm gonna guess that she is an architect as well. Because we're polar opposites on a lot of things, but it works.

So it's kind of cool, dude. The whole concept of flow. Actually you mentioned consistency. So one of my most popular. I wrote an article on medium and Influencer. I'll link to the article in the show notes. But the title of the article is that, you know, I think I can't remember. But this Invisible Skill. This Invisible skill is the single most high paying skill. That's not the exact title, but it's the fact that it's consistency. Consistency is the most rewarded character trait and skill set. And I proved it with a couple of things. Like, so, for instance, in sports, the reason Michael Jordan, thrown back to my days of watching basketball, was the most highly paid basketball player of all time. Or at least at the time, or the reason that any athlete, just in the sports analogy is the most highly paid, is not because they can hit a home run or score a touchdown once in a while. It's not the degree, like, man, that was the best basket ever. Like, no, it's a basket. The reason is because they're consistently good. And when you're consistently good at something, it's not even the reward that you get. Like, oh, you consistently get rewards. It is actually insurance for the people who are paying you. So if you own the sports team, like if I own the Chicago Bulls, for instance, and Michael Jordan's on my team, as long as Michael is or was consistent, I can count on him, which means my probability of losing is a lot less. And we all hate to lose. So the more consistent somebody is, the more you can count on them, the more it reduces your risk. And that comes to do with, like, let's say you're in the service business, you're a financial planner, you're an accountant, you're a lawyer or something. As long as you consistently show up and consistently provide good results, that consistency creates certainty or at least removes the lack of certainty in my mind. And I'm willing to pay a lot more for that certainty than I am for a potential home run. And this also goes with actors, right? Like, why does Brad Pitt, George Clooney and Leo DiCaprio and all the A list actors, why do they get the most money? Is it because they, they give the best performance? Or is it because they, you can count on them to consistently give really good performances over time, which reduces the risk of a flop at the box office. So when I realized that aspect of consistency and how important it is, because by the way, consistency is boring as fuck. I think, like, it is one of the most boring words ever, like, consistently do this. But when you realize that, that it's the most highly paid attribute or characteristic that you can develop, then I think it creates more importance to do it.

Yeah, it's a standard, right? It's like that standard that you set for yourself. You show up and, yeah, you're right, the masters do that. They are consistent, period. And reduces risk.

Yeah, it's a risk reduction. And I don't think most people think about that. And it is actually the one area of my life, well, I've got more Than that. I say one, but it is one area that I'm not consistent enough, and I'm very cognizant of that. I don't work out as consistently as I need to. I don't eat as consistently healthy as I should. I don't consistently practice maybe a specific skill in business, like I should. I jump around from one thing to the other a little bit too add squirrel, like. But, you know, they say knowing you've got a problem is half the battle. Knowing that, that's your issue. Once it's visible, you can start to take steps to change that. And obviously, you guys have created tools such as Project Evo and the EVO Planner to just bring. Not only bring awareness, bring tools, but then bring feedback to keep people accountable and consistent. So that's what I think is so awesome about what you've done.

Thanks, brother. Yeah, I appreciate that because, yeah, I have the same problem. Consistency to me is boring words, but I think when your flow is at a certain level of consistency, the actions that you take to get consistent aren't boring. You know what I mean? Like, you can actually mix it up each day. So it's exciting. But, like, I want to make better choices. I want to be innate every day. And I think once I. When I see my path to doing that and it is still a fricking journey, it's still a road. It's not this, you know, wake up and every day I got to work at it to find my flow, but it is so much more rewarding. And again, the baseline of your own KPIs in your own life and your own fulfillment, they do rise. Not that it's perfect, but if I know that I'm constantly getting a little bit better, that progress, unlocking my brain immediately just makes me feel better. So I can count on that. I can count on my state improving if I can see myself. And I show up every day with just a little bit of understanding of like, okay, this is how I'm going to make it better. I think that's the key piece is, yeah, showing up consistently. The compounding effect of that, holy shit, does that change your life?

Huge. So now is the time where we crack some nuts. So I've got a question I ask every guest, and that is at the end of the show, is what's a nut you're trying to crack right now? And by a nut, I mean this could be a skill you're trying to learn, a person you're trying to meet money you're trying to raise it could be anything out there that is not, like, just incremental growth. Like, oh, yeah, we just want more people to take the test and more people to buy the EVO plan or whatever. Is there any nuts you're trying to crack right now that myself or some of my listeners could ring a bell in their head and go, boom, I got you, bro.

Amazing. I love that question. So, yeah, it really is around the proliferation of this assessment, like our main assessment we're coming out with. And it's some type of partnership that exponentially gets this out there where it isn't just, you know, solopreneur and a cool planner, but the mission that we're doing is realized. And I want to be a household name and a thing that actually affects change in the world in the sense of, like, schools and companies. And so, yeah, the nut I'm trying to crack is, what is that partnership look like? How can we get it out there?

How can you, like, really leapfrog all this other stuff and make it.

Yeah, yeah. Instead of this incrementally, like, taking one step forward, what is that partnership look like? What organization can really take that and spread this thing as much as possible? And so we're at that stage where it's time to really grow and get it out there.

Have you guys come up with any general ideas on what that might look like yet, or is that still in the.

Yeah, general ideas is like aligning with a company, like, a start with why that has relationships with, like, a lot of companies, and getting them. They have the platform to getting a company like that to get it into, you know, the ecosystem of some of these bigger companies so they can start getting into the companies that can look at their employees very differently. So they're not just trying to burn out their employees, but they're actually aligning them in a way that gets the best out of them and makes them feel alive. And so I think that's the, you know, besides all the kind of fluffiness of the way that kind of comes off, it's more of like, shit, that is our biggest lever to pull because, you know, that's what we care about. We want to stop burnout and stress.

So if one of my listeners happens to be the either CEO or highly C suite or something like that with a decent sized company, and they're still listening, they're like, dude, this is freaking awesome. And I would love to see how this can impact the profitability or productivity of my employees. Health, happiness, wealth. And then obviously that helps their bottom line. Talk to them right now. So somebody out there is listening. They've got 10,000 employees and they're fascinated by this. What could you do for them?

Yeah, so we could set them up. We could get them access to our main assessments and we could start a beta with them and get access to their team and help them really onboard this assessment in a way where they can actualize results. And, you know, I'm very, very confident we've seen that with a few teams already and ourselves. So, yeah, I would say we will hold their hand, get them the information, give them the system, you know, set them up with planners, if that's the case, get them inside the app and then get the beta going where we can measure that and have these conversations to truly get the best out of their people. Because, you know, it will give them results to the bottom line, period. And not only will they realize their results, but there'll be less turnover, employees will be happier. There'll be a company that people want to go work with. And I think that's the biggest insurance policy to any startup or any company these days.

How might it work financially? So, for instance, if this person out there has 10,000 comp people. So. Well, and let me ask you this, because I don't even think I asked you this. Obviously you do have a commercial. You can take the. At least I don't know how many assessments you have. It's not like you have more than one. But the brain type assessment is free. Anybody can take it at the site, which, you know, there will be a link on the episode, show notes, and then obviously I can go purchase the planner. So there's a commercial aspect for you. And then I don't know if you have other options for people who wish to ascend and do, you know, go more, go deeper. Hopefully you do because you're a smart businessman. But what would be like if I'm the owner of a company, CEO, would it be potentially like. We could buy. Obviously we give the brain type assessments. We could buy planners in bulk at a discount. Right. Maybe enroll other people. I assume you might have other training programs, membership stuff that kind of goes deeper down the rabbit hole. You can make it cool.

Yeah. We have a main assessment that is FHIR. So it's like what we did times probably 50 on the brain type. Brain type is just to give an initial. Like this is where you spend a lot of your time in your brain. This main assessment is. It's the three crafts, your top three crafts of what you do best. So it's Like Myers Briggs meets strengths finders. And so that's important is because the alignment of people. Once we know your crafts, we can look at the projects and really get very sniperish on those tasks to align them. Right. And so we can set them up that way. And then we have some. We have coaching as well. So it would be the full monty with getting them the full access, and then, you know, implementing that with their team. And it might be moving certain people around. Most likely it will be that because that's the way to really synergize the efforts. And then it's just. It's tracking that, setting up a SaaS program where we have a bot that you communicate with and it feeds back information. So, you know, how is Becky's flow, how's Roger's flow? And is what's going on. So the SaaS system really is the system that holds everything together to get accountability and also get awareness with yourself and your team so you can all be running together.

Nice. Do you guys have any? Even if it's a small company right now, and when I say small company, I don't mean like five, I mean like fifty people, a hundred people, something like that, who have kind of done this even as a beta test where, like, as a company, they're providing all this yet?

Yes, yes. Yeah, we did that about a year ago, actually. Would start with Y. With their core team, and then we have other teams that we've worked with. And yeah, we're getting those results now. But I'm telling you, it is. It's fire. Like, it works incredibly well. Their team cohesiveness goes up. They see each other just like, you know, with my team, when I understand them, we form better. It's. That gets extrapolated and compounded throughout every team member.

Yeah. You know, and one of the things, I forget which company did this, but. And I think it was the Myers Briggs. I want to say I don't remember exactly which one, but I know that when you went over to their offices, because I visited there, I can't think of the name of the company that did it, but, like, everybody's Myers Briggs type was, like, on the door of their office or on their cubicle. So that you just knew, because they made it so mandatory that you guys need to kind of know this. Like, I could see you guys could even create. If you go down this path with companies where you create almost like little office cubicle desktop badges so that everybody who does it, they can put it there. And now it becomes like, all right, cool. I'm an alchemist, I'm an architect or whatever, and everybody kind of knows what that means. And I could see that as being a really powerful and inexpensive product. I mean, you guys could, obviously, once you know, that'd be easy to develop or whatever. And if a company signs on and I got 100 employees, it's like, all right, we're going to order 100 of these. What are all your people? Have them take the types. And then I think that would be powerful because it's also a tangible thing that people get and show that. And then I would assume you might already be going down this road if you haven't. But obviously with those other companies you've done and you're getting all the data right as they're feeding back, so you can probably. Hopefully you're building up case studies in order to take this and showing maybe degrees of productivity or ways to rate that. And if you haven't already, I would just find your champions where the people who are taking this. I mean, it says you've got like tens of thousands of people who have purchased this and downloaded it, etc. And you know, when you're talking to them, it's the most obvious thing in the world. If you haven't done it, you may have, but just tell them, hey, guys, you know, we need your help. This is what we're doing and obviously why we're doing it. And you're hopefully experiencing this. Here's who we're looking for. Like, who do you know at your. Maybe it's at your company. Like, for instance, we've done this with these different companies and they've achieved all this other stuff. And we're really trying to get an audience with, you know, executives who are looking to boost their productivity, employee wellness, et cetera. And if you'd like to help champion our cause and make an introduction, we're happy to. You know, obviously you can reward them or not, but if you haven't done that, I mean, it's just so obvious. But I like to give as much feedback as I can.

No, I love that we've done it a little bit, but I don't think we've doubled down on it as much much as we probably should. So we're at that stage.

And your customers are the best people in the world because a lot of them may be entrepreneurs, but a lot of them. And some of those entrepreneurs have clients.

Right?

But a lot of those people are probably just professionals and they work in a business and they might not even know that this is an that you guys have an opportunity to do this on a corporate wide. So I would definitely enlist them and just give them the opportunity to help champion you guys.

So yeah, no, I love that. That's actually really good, really good feedback. And you're right, we have amazing, huge list of people that are getting results and they're in it. We might as well ask them to help. Yeah, spread the love.

Yep, exactly. Well, man, this has been so much fun. Can't wait to get my evo planner and I want to take some more of the tests and stuff like that.

Yeah, I'll send you that and I'll send you the main assessment, but this has been a blast. Thanks so much for having me.

Hell yeah. Well, I'm just glad you're here, a few miles away from me even though we're over Zoom. But we will have to do beers in flow. We can explore and alchemy together. And.

Let'S do it.

Thanks a lot for joining me, Chad, on Bacon Wrapped Business. And for everybody else, if you enjoyed this, send me some damn feedback, will ya? I love it. Like Chad and I are just here chatting away and it's, you know, we would probably have this conversation if you guys weren't listening and if I wasn't recording. But I absolutely love when I get feedback from my listeners. I actually got an amazing unsolicited testimonial from my friend Jenny. Welcome, welcome, welcome.

You are listening to. Actually, you're not listening to beer talk radio, but you know what I'm listening to? You know what Beer talk radio listens to? Beer talk radio listens to? Bacon wrapped business, hosted by the amazing Brad Costanzo. Now I just wanted to do a little shout out for Brad because I have to tell you is that there is something for everyone in Bacon wrapped Business. Bacon wrapped business is almost like spiritual therapy for entrepreneurs. It's about freeing your mind.

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