Frank "The Legend" Shamrock: Facing Death, Danger and Reinventing Yourself

I always look ahead, you know, five years. And for me, it was okay, I got this time. I'm gonna do the time. I'm gonna get out. What am I gonna do? You know, I got really no skills. I took some sheet metal classes. You know, I had, like, vocational skills. And so, you know, I saw myself being a worker for the rest of my life. But with Bob's guidance and with these two options, I was like, okay, I'm gonna pick one. But I didn't feel like I was a stripper, and I didn't feel like that was my, you know, that was my cloth. So I did the fighting thing, and it was really challenging for me, just because I was terrified of fighting. You know, I mean, I look good, I sounded good. I put on a good presentation, but I really didn't like fighting, and I didn't like the violence of it.

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What's up, everybody? This is Brad, and it is lunchtime here on Monday. And I've got a very special guest with me today. Good friend of mine and partner in multiple things, Frank the legend. Shamrock in the house. Say hi, Frank.

Hi, Frank.

Oh, man, this should be fun. We've known each other for a couple years, and as I said, this is the first time we've actually sat down to actually do an interview. I think we are live on Facebook. I'm going to go look here. Let's mess around and just see, see, I want to double check that we're not screwing this up sometimes. Yep, we are. We are live. Sweet. So.

You and I BS about a whole bunch of things, but there's a lot of people out there who follow you and know your story and a lot of people who don't. And I really want to take this as an opportunity to talk about a couple things. I want to go back and, like, a lot of folks know about your championship career in mixed martial arts and UFC and all of that Strikeforce, but a lot of people don't really know the backstory about, you know, kind of how you came up. And we're. We're in a time of this pandemic and crisis and uncertainty and dangers to our health. And life and threats at every level. And a lot of people are dealing with anxiety and uncertainty. And you've dealt with this throughout your entire life. And I would love to talk, you know, for you to tell more about your story as it relates to, you know, this kind of stuff and what people can kind of really learn, because you've done an amazing job of channeling your mental toughness into a really resilient life and reinventing yourself around the block. So I'm just really happy to be able to finally get this recorded.

Yeah, man. Yeah. It's been a minute since we've known each other. Yeah.

So let's start on the. On the top. So some of the achievements that people most know you for would include what. I'll let you kind of talk about that, because then I want to dive into the backstory that people don't know.

Okay. Well, I think I'm widely considered the man who convinced America that cage fighting was a good idea, which I think we're still thinking about that one. But I was also the first ever UFC middleweight champion and the first ever Strikeforce middleweight champion, and I'm the only athlete to win championships in every major sporting league of mixed martial arts. And, yeah, I was, like, the first talent spokesman. I was the first broadcaster. So I had a lot of firsts in my. In my career. I have one Guinness World Record hanging on my wall. The other one's been broken, but that is the fastest UFC title fight won by submission in 16 seconds. So that's. Can't see it, but it's sitting right there. And. Yeah, and apparently I haven't done the research because it seems very lengthy, but apparently I'm the only athlete in the history of recorded sports to win back to back championships in less than a minute.

Yeah, you've told me about that. Explain how that. Explain how that.

Well, I won. It's actually less than, like, 40 seconds or something. I won, actually. This Guinness World Record was set in 14 seconds, but the timer in Japan stopped the clock at 16 seconds. And so that they wouldn't accept it. They would only accept what was officially on the video and on the time clocker. So I had to resubmit the 14 second for 16 seconds. But the following championship on this, I won over igor Zinoviev in 20 seconds, and that one's getting a lot of play on social media because it's in the greatest slams of UFC history. But I basically stovepiped him, knocked him out in 20 seconds. So in a matter of 34 seconds, I won two world championships.

Yeah, it's amazing.

Athlete by second. But that. That quickly.

Yeah. So, you know, one of the things that I've. I've talked to people privately about is.

You know, some of the. It's the untold stories, the things we don't know about a lot of the people we admire. And it's really easy to just look at what somebody's accomplish, accomplished and what they've done in their life, and like, look, they're at the top of the mountain. Look at this. Lucky them, or I'd love to be them, et cetera. And they don't necessarily know, realize, or even have the ability to comprehend what somebody's had to go through in order to get that and to go through in order to have the mindset necessary to deal with some of, you know, from the training to the. To the mindset necessary to put yourself in harm's way every single day like you did. And this is a part of your story that is public and it's been told, but I don't think a lot of people know that much. Let's rewind back to your journey from childhood, onto the things that drove you to be able to not only compete at those levels, but to be able to face uncertainty, danger, even death around every corner. Because it wasn't a happy childhood by any means, was it?

Now, unfortunately, my childhood was not the best. And I ended up leaving home when I was 11, which is ironic because my little girl is 11 now. So she hears all these stories. In fact, when we. When we lay in bed at night, before we go to bed, she's like, dad, dad, tell me the prison stories. Because to her, it's so fascinating that Anna, I'm the only person that she knows that was ever in prison. So she's just like, tell me about the culture and tell me about this. And so it's really interesting for me to be reliving those times in sort of this different moment. And, you know, I would say the scariest career right now is probably being a healthcare worker.

You know, going into the fire. But for me, like, I grew up in this abusive home, and I never knew it was abusive. I just knew I had all these emotional issues and I was always acting out, getting in trouble. And even though I tested really well in school and I was. Had great grades, I just couldn't keep my emotional stability together. And so any type of conflict or confrontation, I would just kind of freak out. And so When I was 11, I went to juvenile hall for the very first time. And I got sent from. Because I was throwing rocks at a train, so that's a felony in the state of California. I got arrested about three months later. I ended up in juvenile hall. And it was the first time I'd ever talked to kids my age because we lived in a very closed community. You know, my mom didn't let me leave the house much, and I talked to the bad kids and was telling them about my getting locked in the closet and living in the backyard and all these different, you know, punishments that were happening to me, which I thought were very normal. And the bad kids started telling me how bad they were and how messed up it was. And it was like the first realization that I had that there was something wrong with my family life, there's something wrong with what was going on in my home. And.

So I went and saw my counselors, and they kept telling me, listen, if you keep doing these things. And I think this is what they tell kids to keep them in line. But they basically were telling me, if you keep doing crimes, we're going to take you out of your home. And I sort of took that as a directive. I was like, this is great information advice. So I just started committing crimes. I was, you know, stealing everything I could to get taken away. And, I mean, within months, I was taken away from my home, and I became a ward of the state of California. So that would have been when I was 12. And then from 12 on, I was a ward of the state. And so I went from foster home, group home. And then I continued to use crime as kind of a tool. Anytime I didn't like a social situation or what was going on, I would commit a crime, and they would send me back to juvenile hall where all my friends were, my community was. And that went on until I was 17.

And basically when I was 17, I got married, and it made me an emancipated minor. And so then I became an adult, like, overnight when I was 17. But I still continued to be a criminal and be a knucklehead. And even though I had a son and I was trying to care for him, I still continued to get in trouble. And when I got in trouble again, I was sent to prison. And so I went to prison when I was 17 years old. And then I got out when I was 21, almost 22, actually, April 4th of 1994, I got out of prison.

You know, just to jump in there. I remember the first time I heard you tell this story, too, and how you. And it really hit me how you know, you turn to crime. It was, it was an escape because you realize that, hey, this I can get. I can get free from the abuse or I can get free from all the other stuff. If I go do this, I'm taken to a place where I'm safe. And you considered that safe compared to where else you were. And you used it as an escape. And it also shows that you were thinking opportunistically back then. You were solving problems. It wasn't just, I'm committing crime because I don't know better. You were doing it because you understood that this is a way out from where you were. And I just remember I'd never thought about activity like that. It just really resonated.

Yeah, well, I think a lot of people turn to sports, A lot of people find, you know, these other, you know, extracurricular activities. But I also think those people have stable, comfortable home lives where they, you know, have a place to go, that sanctuary. Um, and mine wasn't like, mine was on the streets. And the first group that really accepted me where I felt safe was in juvenile hall. And so for me, it was always like, wow, I'll just go back to juvenile hall. And I think, you know, the rest of the world was terrified of that. And I was like, yeah, I want to see my friends and counselors and, you know, they give me great advice and I catch up on my schoolwork. So it became very comfortable for me to do that. Almost too comfortable. Because, you know, unbeknownst to me, once I got married, I was an adult. So that anything committed after that point was considered an adult crime. And that's how I ended up in prison is, you know, I masked a bunch of felonies when I was 17. But when I went to court, they were like, well, listen, you're married, you're an emancipated mind. Now you're an adult. So now you deal with the adult consequences. And that was the first time where I really woke up and I realized I screwed my life up. Plus I was got a 60 year sentence.

Wait, 6,00?

Yeah, I got 20 felonies, and 20 times three is 60 years. But I took a plea bargain deal which came under the consecutive criminal act, and I ended up with six years. And so I ended up, I went to prison for six years. And first I went to youth prison, which was not very fun at all because there was not very many stable youth there. A lot of those kids had come from gangs or inner city or, you know, they had a worse, perhaps A worse social upbringing than I did, but they certainly had a worse social, you know, connected and group activities. And I wasn't like in a gang. I came from a small rural town.

Yeah.

So I tried to get out of youth prison as quickly as I could, and I also figured out I couldn't send money home or work and send money home to my son when I was in youth prison. So I transferred myself to adult prison shortly after turning 18.

Damn. So, you know, right now I just want to use this opportunity to kind of intersperse some of the stuff that's happening, you know, live in everybody else's life. So you were locked up at that age, and this was, you know, we're all dealing with the quote unquote lockup of self quarantining and sheltering in place and staying at home to protect ourselves from the pandemic. But we at least have the freedom to still walk outside and go get fresh air and do everything else. How do you deal at that age? How do you deal with real lockup? How do you deal with the mental toll that it takes on you from.

A, you're being confined in a cage, in essence, and then B, the dangers that surround you from other inmates and everything else? And this is before your fighting career. This is before all of that and all of your training came into place. A lot of people are dealing with like a tiny percentage of this feeling confined. Take us back there. Like, how do you survive that, like, mentally?

Well, it's all about your program. It's all about your schedule. In prison, they call it the program, what you doing on your program. But it's really about scheduling your life and, you know, setting up a structure where each day kind of rolls into the next and you get the things done that you want to get done. So for me, it was lifting weights, it was studying. I went to college. I read a lot, lot of reading, you know, social time. But it was very scheduled. You're kind of stuck in this. This kind of schedule anyways, you know, according to how the prison set up. But for me, it's actually. It was actually great because I kind of grew up there since I was, you know, 11. So I was very used to the program of having a schedule. Wake up, you know, eat breakfast, you know, read, study, go lift weights. And I just. And that's what I, you know, counsel people now is, you know, in this time of going stir crazy at home, you know, get yourself a really solid schedule and then make sure you're plugging in the things that you want to get accomplished. For me, it was about getting education because I didn't have any education. I had these dreams, but I had no way to, you know, sort of accomplish them.

I'd have, you know, 27 felonies. So it's not like I can get a real job or apply for anything because they're going to be like, well, what's up with this? So I felt this added burden in order to provide for my family. I had to sort of get over this hump that I created for myself.

Yeah. So.

What'S been your routine and schedule these days? As you're in a less confined but still.

Heavily restricted lifestyle right now? What are some of the things you're doing to keep yourself productive and sane and everything else?

Well, little has changed for me.

I hate to say it. I work from home. You know, I've been working from home for about 10 years. I'm not getting on stages, so that's the difference. I'm not doing, you know, broadcasting. I'm not getting out to do that professional side. But to be honest with you, that's the more stressful stuff in my life. So I've been enjoying, like, I'm playing the guitar. I just bought a motorcycle, so I'm tinkering on my motorcycle. I still do the same schedule that I would normally do. I wake up, I pray, I meditate, I eat some food, I break a sweat, I do a little workout, I plan my day out. And then, you know, I work for six, seven, eight hours. And then, you know, the evening is here. And then, you know, I socialize and I eat and I relax, watch tv and then kind of, you know, start over again.

Yeah, mine's been the same because, you know, I work from home as well, and it actually hasn't disrupted my flow, my rhythm too much. The one thing that I know that I've become much more cognizant of how much you take advantage of the little things in life, the little things you enjoy, such as going on a date with your girlfriend or your wife, or just getting together on a double date. Hey, let's go get dinner with a couple of friends. And I mean, now I live on the beach here, and they've just shut down the beach and the boardwalk. And I've become much more cognizant of how much I've taken that for granted. The fact that I can't go on them now without getting kicked off or a ticket.

This has just made me really realize how much.

The tiny pleasantries of life really matter. And how little attention we pay to it until it's gone. And, yeah, if nothing else that's been at a spotlight shown on that.

Take it to. Yeah, the story of when you got out of prison. So, first of all, I want to go back. You said you had 60 years on your sentence, and I can't remember if you told us how you got that down to how much total time did you serve?

A little over.

Three and a half years.

Okay, so then how did you get that go from?

Well, I took this deal called the Consecutive Criminal Act. And basically, if you commit the same crime over and over again and it's exactly the same, then they can't line them all up. And I'm sure there was a way to stop, you know, unlawful or mean prosecution, but so I ended up taking this deal, which, you know, essentially wiped all these crimes off someone's book somewhere and then amassed me this big number. But because of the Consecutive Criminal act, you serve the full term on the first one, and then it's like a half and a third and then an eighth, and it just sort of breaks down. And so it goes from three all the way down to. And then they all add up. And so the total was like six years. And then in prison, for every good day you do, so that's. For every day you don't get in trouble or you do something bad, you get a day off. So you really serve 50% of a sentence. And I ended up serving a little over three years because when I went to youth prison, it wasn't the same there. It's subjective. You're according to your counselor and according to their perception of your rehabilitation, you get the days on or you get the days off. And so that's one of the other reasons I had to get out of youth prison is it wasn't measurable. I knew in this other world that it was a day for a day, and I knew I could provide. I knew that I could, you know, set a number and get out. And in youth, I wasn't able to control that. You know, as little control as I had, I had at least enough control on when I could get out. And I wasn't able to control that in any way. And so that was really, you know, besides my desires was the overwhelming factor that I wanted to leave. I was like, I'm gonna kill one of these kids. It's totally not gonna work out. And then I'm never gonna get out because they can just keep me forever.

Yeah.

So you get out. Do you have your share of prison fights and things like that in those days, or were you able to avoid that?

Yeah, I had a couple. I was able to avoid most of it because everything is perception and posturing and, you know, it's very similar to business these days. And so, you know, you act a certain way, if you respond a certain way, if you react a certain way, there's pretty much, you know, barriers to all these things happening. And the only thing that kept me at risk, and it was a little stressful for me, was I wasn't in a gang. I wasn't involved in any of these gangs. And people join gangs out of protection. It's like joining a group. So you join your group, they'll protect you, and they become your, you know, support group. Just like now you need a support group in prison. It's your gang. And. But I also saw the risk of being in a gang because if something happens to the gang, as part of the gang, I have to join in on the response. And so I took a, you know, I made an educated decision. I was like, well, I'm not going to join certain groups that cause me to do certain things that I wouldn't want to do. That's going to risk my time. And so that was the big stressful part, is when things went down, I knew it was just me. And that was the tough part.

Yeah, you had no protection, but you had no obligation to join in when it got crazy. Yeah, that had to be. That had to be a big. A big decision that you made, Knowing that you're putting yourself in danger by making the decision, but you're also putting yourself in danger if you join. So, yeah, you've dealt with uncertainty.

Yeah. And it's very like everybody. And when I was talking to Nicolette just the other night, she's like, wow, well, dad, why didn't you just join a gang? And I'm like, well, you know, the gangs are race oriented. Gangs are, you know, location oriented. And I was like, I was from a different location. I was from a mixed race. I didn't really fit into these groups. So I would have been, you know, both dishonest and then stuck in this group. I'd have to act a certain way. I was like, I wanted to act my way, and once I understood the rules, then that's how I avoided most of these, you know, problems. But I can say, if you walk alone, that's what it's called. If you walk alone. You know, you just have to stand up for yourself. So when someone comes and they think you're weak, or they want your stuff, or they, you know, they try to apply some leverage. You know, you have to stand up and use your. Use your words. As I tell Nick, use your words and stand up for yourself. Because otherwise that entire group then goes, ah, we've got a weak one. And then they'll come take all your stuff from you. So it taught me. It was really the first time. Besides, you know, when I got up in court when I was a kid and said, I don't want to go home anymore. It was really, you know, the first time where I got, you know, a lot of power in my voice because I realized if I don't say something, you know, that whole group's gonna come, and then I gotta deal with the group. But if I stand up to this man and tell him, no, this is what I. You know, this is how it's gonna be, then it all changes. And I got in a couple of fights. They were all fights where I was in the wrong place at the wrong time or, you know, I stood up and I said something, and there was a group and they were like, yeah, we don't agree with that. I was like, oh, no.

Did you have any. Did you have any of the fight training or mixed martial arts? Had you been doing any martial arts with your family prior to that, or.

Yeah, no, I'd never done martial arts. I think I took karate when I was, like, seven or taekwondo or something. But I lifted weights every day. And I studied bodybuilding. Bob Shamrock got me into bodybuilding. Studying bodybuilding. And then I played Hacky Sack. Every day I'm on Hacky Sack, so.

You could kick balls.

And I played volleyball. Any sport, any activity where there was an opportunity, and I wasn't stepping on any racial toes or group toes I would participate in because I was super athletic, and I wanted to, you know, stay in a good system of athleticism and just kind of be active. So I was always playing baseball, so I looked very athletic. And that stopped a lot of people. A lot of people looked at me and they were like, hmm, he looks the part, he sounds the part. You know, we should just keep moving.

I've seen the photos of you coming out of. Was it Folsom? Is that where you were? You were in Folsom or No?

Yeah, I ended up in Folsom. And I. Paroled out of Folsom was the last prison I was in.

Oh, wow. Yeah. No, I saw some photos. I'm looking for them online here. I got a handful. I was looking to See if I have any. You are just coming out of a prison. Photo ads be too hard to find while sitting here doing this, but okay. Now.

Talk about a reinvention. You get out and how old were you when you get out? Early 20s, like maybe 22 or something?

I was 21. So I got out April 4th of 1994. I'd have been 21 and a half.

Oh, wow. We're approaching. Today's the 30th of March. We're approaching your anniversary, man. So that had to be a really interesting day. And I know a little bit of the backstory, but.

Talk about reinvention. You were at a fork in the road, right? You could go left or you could go right. And there's a lot of people out there right now who are in.

Somewhat similar forks. They've been laid off. They're in different positions. They're their jobs, their industries. Some of them are being. Are disappeared, at least for now. And they're going to be facing reinvention as well. But.

You'Ve got a funny story here about what your dad told you when you got out. And let's go back to that moment of that crossroads where you were at. Like, man, you got a couple choices here.

Yeah. So when I was just turned 12, just almost turned 13, I ended up in the Shamrock Boys ranch. And Bob was the first ever, like, real father figure, mentor to me in this journey. And then even when I went to prison, I screwed everything up. He kept mentoring me and bringing me books and, you know, teaching and guiding. And so, you know, he kept telling me about this new sport that's developing and this new thing. And he made us sound very much like wrestling, you know, like we were going to do professional wrestling. And then when I got out, you know, he basically said, hey, in fact, this was in Folsom. It came, you know, months, about a month before I got out. And he kind of gave me the last dad talk. And the dad talk was you built your body up. You know, you got this great machine. You know, you can make a ton of money as a performer. And, you know, these are the two avenues I think you should pursue. And it was like fighting. And he told me about this kind of wrestling story, submission thing. And then he's like, or stripping.

Or a great stripper. And I'll never forget it because I was just sitting there going, is this guy crazy? Like, what's he talking about? But my brother Ken Shamrock had actually been very successful at both of those. And so he had experience. Bob was there Coaching him and being a supporter. So he had this firm belief that this was a probability. And I literally went back to my cell and was like, think about it. This is great. But, you know, I always look ahead, you know, five years. And for me, it was, okay, I got this time. I'm gonna do the time. I'm gonna get out. What am I gonna do? You know, I got really no skills. I took some sheet metal classes. You know, I had, like, vocational skills. And so, you know, I saw myself being a worker for the rest of my life. But with Bob's guidance and with these two options, I was like, okay, I'm gonna pick one. But I. I didn't feel like I was a stripper, and I didn't feel like that was my. You know, that was my cloth. So I did the fighting thing, and it was really challenging for me, just because I was terrified of fighting. You know, I mean, I look good, I sounded good. I put on a good presentation, But I really didn't like fighting, and I didn't like the violence of it or the physical confrontation side. So it was a big. It was a big pill to swallow.

I do find it, like, ironic that then your career ended up fighting in your underwear, so you kind of ended up stripping and fighting.

Yeah, I genuinely saw it as a chance. And, you know, to Bob's credit, you know, all throughout my time, he kept mentoring me on build up your body, you know, learn about nutrition. You know, he kept, you know, sprinkling these thoughts on me, so. And I had nothing else to do but study the stuff he sent me and, you know, do the things he taught me. What I realized I was doing, you know, in hindsight, was just making this huge investment into my body and into my mind because I really had made my mind up. I really had built my body up to a point where if I wanted to do this, I could. A lot of people don't take those little steps, so when it's time to take, make the big decision, they're not ready, physically or mentally. And I was ready. I was still scared to fight. I didn't know how to fight. But spiritually, physically, and mentally, I was prepared to go do it. Once I said yes, that was it.

Yeah, and you've also got a great story about the first fight when you walked into, because it was your brother Ken Shamrock's dojo, right? Like, he had a training center, et cetera. So, you know, whenever people are going through reinvention, whenever somebody's trying to learn something new and figure it out. I know that whether it's in business, whether it's right now and people are trying to pivot and figure something else out, there is that moment where you're gonna suck at this, and you're gonna suck really bad, and you're probably gonna get your ass handed to you because you're trying something new and you're figuring it out as you go. What happened when you walked in, when you were trying something new?

Well, I mean, straight out of a movie, first Bob took me to the dojo, and I didn't know what a dojo was. He's like, yeah, I'm going to the gym. You know, they call it a dojo thing. And then, you know, like, we literally pull up. It's a industrial building behind a stereo shop in the middle of nowhere. And so it looks just drab and nondescript. And then he literally turns to me and it's like, okay, son, just don't give up and don't show him you're scared. Opens the door and I walk in there. But it was the toughest two hours of my life. You know, I did this crazy conditioning.

You know, test, which is really just designed to completely exhaust you and turn you into jelly. And so after doing the 500 squat, sit ups, push ups, and leg lifts, which took an hour and a half, you're just like, melted. And then I had to fight Ken.

And he's, you know, 225 pounds of just solid muscle. And he's a professional fighter.

Trained professional fighter. Not just your older brother who can typically beat you up, right?

Yeah, he just literally beat the hell out of me. Like, you know, broke my nose, broke my ribs, tore my knee out, you know, just choked me out. Like, everything you could ever imagine. Because that was back in the day. The only real test was that you could survive all these things. And then if you came back, you were crazy enough or willing enough or dedicated enough to be a fighter. And so that was like the hurdle. But I'd already made up my mind. Like, I'd sat for two months in Folsom and was like, what am I gonna do? You know, I got nothing. I got all these felonies. You know, what is my future gonna be? How am I gonna provide for my family? So I'd already made up my mind. I just had to get through that trial. And I mean, it was. It's still the worst I've ever been beaten in my life. You know, the most physical damage, the most physical exercise I've ever done in one you know, session.

And to. Yeah, to come back from that. From not just. Man, that was hard. And I lost. It was, like, a brutal beating to, like, I can't even put myself in that. In that.

It's not that I lost. I wasn't even in it. Like, I was ragdoll. Like, I didn't even hit him. Like, he was just. He just beat me. Because after that type of conditioning, you know, you're just. You have nothing. You can't. You can't do anything. And so, I mean, I was literally just beaten for 20 minutes.

Wow.

So.

You use that as fuel to continue to go on. And then I know you started training and getting the skill sets necessary so that you wouldn't get beat, and you had this tremendous career. We can go into some more details on that. Exactly. But one of the things that I always found really, really fascinating is how it's that story of, like you said, you didn't like fighting, you didn't feel like a violent guy. You didn't want to hurt people, but you knew that in order to accomplish the goal of getting in the mindset, you did something really.

Crazy, for lack of another word.

Right.

But how did you. What kind of stuff did you watch? You know, I'm setting you up here to put yourself in that mindset, to make it okay to hurt people when you needed to as a profession.

Yeah. Well, I didn't realize that it was. That I had that hurdle because I. It was. When I started in pancreas in Japan, it was very sporting, and we were all, like, friends. We'd work out together. And so it had this, you know, communal feel to it. And, you know, if you got someone's arm and it was going to break, like, you wouldn't break it because, you know, they didn't want their arm broke. You didn't like. It was. You know, you were both like, all right, buddy, I'm sorry. Hey, great job. And we all kind of moved on. But when I had my first no rules fight, you know, I fought a guy, John Loeburn, Hawaii. And he didn't. He wasn't my friend. He didn't care. And when it came time to break his arm, break his leg, you know, I couldn't do it. And, you know, I just realized it was. There was this thing holding me back, and it was from the violence that I. You know, the abuse that I'd had, you know, as a child. And so I just felt this, you know, burden that I was hurting people. I didn't feel right about it. Because I had the psychological block. And so once I, you know, became aware of it, like in that fight, I walked away. Because I always review my fights. I always think about what happened and, you know, look to improve. Just like any business deal or meeting, you know, I do a review and I try to figure out what was good, bad, you know, what can be approved. And walking away, I realized I needed to improve my ability to hurt people. Like, I needed to get through this barrier. And so, you know, I love to read. All of the stuff I read was still in my head, especially from prison, and I realized it was all in my head. So I started reading Graphic Serial Killer, like extremely violent material. I know it sounds so weird, but it changed how I thought and perceived violence. And I just. I washed my mind in violence. And then, you know, when I was, you know, stomping my friend's head or choking them unconscious, like, I didn't feel the same empathy to it anymore.

Yeah, yeah, you actually removed the empathy that you had naturally in order to get the job done. And that's one of the things I found. You know.

It sounds like crazy, etc. But it's also the hallmarks of what it takes to sometimes be a champion and to be at the top is it's. To a large degree, it's a do whatever it takes. Now, that doesn't mean you went out and killed people. That doesn't mean. Well, at least that we know, right?

It doesn't mean.

It means that at least you weren't caught, but it means that you understood the mindset necessary to achieve what you wanted to achieve, and you understood that there's different ways to do that. And as uncomfortable as it probably was, in order to put yourself there, you did it anyway.

And I just find that really a fascinating.

Take on what it really takes to be at the levels that you competed at. And I love that story. For as nuts as it is, it sounds nuts, but when you study high performance and you know you were one of the highest performing in the world at that space, and, you know, there's a reason you got nicknamed the. Or named the Legend. And.

Anyway, I love that story. So now going through your career, and you told me this too, that man, for I don't know how many years that you were really active in the training, was it like over a decade, probably 15 years or something of that nature, that you prepared yourself every single day, whether you were training or actually fighting to die, like, you accepted that go into the mindset there of preparing yourself that on a Daily basis, you are facing death and dismemberment.

Yeah, well, it went back to getting over that psychological hurdle of hurting people. And, you know, what I realized is, and luckily I was training in Japan. There was a lot of spirituality in their culture. But what I realized was I was doing myself a disservice and my opponent a disservice because we both picked up this sword, and we were both, like, ready to go out and swing it. And, you know, if you get chopped by a sword, like, that's. That's part of the game. And so once my mind started changing in that way, and I realized, like, this is part of the job, you know, people are going to get hurt, I'm going to hurt people, they're going to hurt me unless I hurt them first. And once my mind started kind of, you know, accepting that.

Then I just realized, like, I need to be 100% all the time. Like, I need to, you know, employ the, you know, the techniques I learned in prison, which are, you know, you stand up for it, knowing that it could go down and you could get killed. But if you don't stand up for it, you're gonna spend years in agony. And it just kind of made sense to me. I was like, I'm swinging a sword, and if I'm gonna swing a sword, then I've also got to be ready to go down by a sword. And just that small mental hurdle, most people aren't ready to go down by sword. They're like, well, you know, swing it softly.

It was like the last little hurdle for me to make, because then I realized, you know, I could perform until I was knocked out. I could perform until, you know, something broke. I could perform passed, you know, most people's physical or psychological boundaries. And it just became something I would pray about, you know, because I. Well, you know, when I fought Igor Zinoviev and I knocked him out, 20 seconds, like, I almost killed him, and I could hear all of his bones breaking.

Was this the one where he broke his neck?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I literally turned him upside down. I stovepipe him. And, yeah, my head was right there because I was driving my shoulder to his collarbone, and I could hear all of his bones breaking, and it felt terrible in my stomach. But at the same time, that's what was. That's the job. And I'd already accepted that. I'd already accepted that one of us could die. And so by that point, you know, I'd gotten. So. I'd gotten good at fighting. But that last hurdle made Me, ruthless, because, you know, you weren't going to break me psychologically. You weren't going to, you know, I wasn't going to step backwards. Like, for me, it was, you know, it just created this, you know, killing machine because I accepted the fact that, hey, we're, you know, if I'm shooting guns, the odds are eventually I'll get shop with a gun. So I just realized. I just accepted the fact that maybe somebody will kill me someday. And once I accepted that, like, all the fear went away because I was like, wait a minute, I'm in. I'm 100% trained. The odds of someone killing me are so small, you know, I'm just gonna go for it. But that last little, you know, hurdle is what enabled me to, you know, skyrocket to the top. Because everyone else, you know, I could tell when I looked in their eyes that they weren't ready to take that, you know, that step. They weren't ready to pull out a gun, be like, all right, here we go. But accepting that I was ready, like, making that last step, it changed my whole ability to compete. Did that.

Did that mindset get harder to maintain when you'd had a large degree of success and championships, et cetera? Because at the time, in the early days, you didn't have much to lose, right? You didn't have a championship. I mean, it probably wasn't. The fighting probably wasn't paying nearly as well as it did later on. And.

You know, when you're. When you're on the way to the top, a lot of times that's that mentality, like, I got nothing to lose, screw it. But I'm just curious, as you had stuff to lose, did it get harder to maintain that mentality or easier?

I always maintained it. It just became harder to keep my focus on the game because eventually I knew so much about the game. I wanted to play around or I wanted to perform, or I wanted to do these other things that were against the core belief.

Yeah.

Which is laser focus, fight to the death. You know, put everything on the line. So I was sort of in this internal battle where I had the belief, but I'd be like, all right, now we're gonna stand up and do something crazy. And so I, you know, I found myself just juggling the, you know, the two ideas. But it's because. Also because I was an artist, so I wanted to perform. And I realized sometimes, you know, I could perform better if I walked the line or I played more risk or I did more things. I realized that the Performance would be better. So it was just a weird thing because I was a warrior, but I was performing, and so I ended up juggling the two.

Yeah, warrior and a showman. And I mean, you were representing the sport, especially as the first. What was it? The. Was it light middleweight? What was your first championship there? What was the class.

The first ever UFC middleweight champion.

Middleweight. That's right. Well, especially once you get that. That degree of, like, the first champion there. And now it's part show and it's part, you know, still compete. You want to, you know, kind of balance those two things out. You.

You brought a lot of showmanship to it, and you brought a lot of.

What do I want to say? Like, you were probably the biggest ambassador for the entire. For the entire sport. As you mentioned earlier on, you. You were one of the people who convinced the world and the networks, etcetera, that bunch of guys beating their brains out were. It was good tv. Take us through that. Like, so you're fighting, and then you're becoming an ambassador. And some of the challenges that you had to. I mean, you spoke in front of. Was it Congress or the state assembly or what was it that you did there, too?

I spoke in front of the state and Congress and the, you know, Nevada Commission to get us legalized. I. Because I was so passionate about it and because I was, you know, the champion and so good, and I, you know, I look pretty good in a suit. You know, I got pushed out in front to sort of be the face, to be the spokesman, because I was the first ever talent spokesman for the ufc. And this was a time when we were battling the cable companies because we were getting kicked off of cable. So, you know, I saw it as a, you know, a great opportunity to move the sport forward, you know, and to save the sport, because my paychecks were getting cut and our audience was getting cut, and. And so I, you know, I readily stepped out there. But, yeah, I mean, I was. I was to go around and talk to the cable company owners and the presidents and, you know, spoke at Congress.

But I think I moved the message a lot because I had such belief in it. You know, I really believe that martial arts, you know, because I looked at it as martial arts. You know, to me, it was all, it's mixed martial arts. It's martial arts all mixed up, because you can do all these things. So I lived by those principles of honor, respect, and discipline. And, you know, when I went and spoke to these people, I was very passionate about it. So, you know, it was Very convincing.

And. But it was really because we didn't have any other spokespeople. It was just, it was just me. And that's where I developed a lot of my speaking skills. But in the beginning, like, it was brutal, you know, because I was fresh out of prison. And then when I wasn't in prison, I was training in the dojo or fighting in Japan. So, you know, my presentation skills outside the ring were not the best. But I just spoke from the heart, you know, and I think, I know I turned a lot of people on to the sport, especially a lot of people in a decision making position.

Yeah, yeah. The other thing that I noticed about, you know, what you said is that you've always been also such a student and a self described nerd of the art and the science of fighting, but you've also done this in a lot of other areas. But didn't you say, didn't you tell me once that you got made fun of because you were like the only guy in the dojo with a notebook at the time?

Oh, yeah, he used to get beaten. They used to beat me and I. And because I didn't know, you know, in traditional martial arts, like, you don't ask questions, you do what the master says. And I didn't know because I wasn't in martial arts, I wasn't in sports. And so I'd be the only knucklehead. I'd raise my hand, I'd ask a question, I could tell people were irritated. You know, I take notes. And then all of a sudden they'd be like, frank, why don't you come up here and I'll show you.

They'd wrench on me, like twist my arms and stuff, but I didn't. I mean, I picked up that they were kind of irritated, but I didn't realize, like, it was out of culture. And yeah, they teased me about the notebook and. But I was, you know, I was really serious about learning it. And, you know, I became a teacher within six months of starting fighting.

Oh, wow.

Because I was writing it all down and I was, you know, computing the theories and I was trying to figure out, you know, how the biomechanics work. And I was trying to apply science to this don't ask questions, you know, tough man culture. And yeah, I rubbed a lot of people wrong, but I just didn't know that it was wrong. And then to go back to prison, I, you know, talk about a schedule every day. I was studying and learning and writing in a journal and, you know.

Trying to you know, articulate through teaching what I learned in bodybuilding and, you know, drawing diagrams of the human body and trying to figure out the, you know, correct mechanics. And so I kept this really scholastic type of approach, and I rolled right into the fighting and it just didn't exist at the time. Now everyone does it now. It's. Now it's cool.

You got beat up for it. That's. I can see that little. Little nerdy. Frank, sir. I gotta get a question. Come here, I'll show you the. That actually ties in really well into one of the principles that you talk a lot about, about one of the keys for success. And it's something that you have.

Used and you still learn and live by, and that's that plus equals minus philosophy. Explain that and how it works and how you've used it and how you suggest that other people utilize this.

Yeah, the plus equals minus is huge because it really keeps you in this student teaching, competitive type mode. It's real simple for me. You find someone who has what you want, has done what you're trying to do, who's got the knowledge, and that would be the plus. You find someone who's doing it at your level, and that would be your equal. And then you find someone who's interested in learning it like you just were before, or who doesn't have the knowledge, and they would be the plus. Then you work this system where you get the knowledge from your guy, your mentor, your teacher, the coach, the whatever you get with the competitive community, your equals. You find out what's going on. You find out what the, you know, the goals are, what the, you know, what the barriers are, what everyone's doing, and then you pass that information on to your minus. And that's just that three, you know, symbol system creates this nice flow of learning, competing, staying humble. In fact, a lot of people ask me, like, how are you still humble after all these things? You know, after all that you've done? Like, why are you hanging out with me? And how are you so humble?

That's what I've always wondered.

Why are you hanging out with me? What's going on with Frank? Even the kids, they're like, Mr. Shamrock, how are you so humble? Like, why aren't you, you know, why are you hanging out with us? But it's because I put myself in those other positions and I make sure that I'm learning, teaching, and competing against people in all areas. Like, it doesn't matter. Like, you know, currently with the charity, you know, I'm looking at all These, you know, charities right now and what are they doing and how are they, you know, how are they controlling market share and what's going on with them? And I'm learning from, you know, the masters of charity work and then I'm teaching that to people. So it just creates this great flow where you're never sitting on top going, let me tell you how it's done. You create this learning, teaching, competing type mentality.

Yeah, it's, yeah, learn it, do it, teach it. But it's like, learn from somebody who's amazing and then apply it with people who are in that same level and then teach it. You know, it actually is very similar to. Have you ever heard of a concept called the trivium? You ever heard of that? So the trivium is a, this is, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get nerdy here. So the trivium is an ancient way of learning and it goes back to, I want to say Greek times. I could be wrong there. But it was one of the ways that for, for hundreds, maybe potentially even a couple thousand years, they taught things, everything from, you know, religious studies to science, etc. And it was based on three concepts, which is grammar, logic and rhetoric. And if you really break those down, grammar is like, if you were going to learn a language, for instance, is learning the foundations. You have to learn the foundations of what?

Of all the things you're learning, if it's a new skill, you got to learn the words and you know how things, you know, what is there. So for instance, with, you know, with like fighting, you got to learn this is, these are the basics of how to punch and how to block, et cetera. But then there's the, the logic which is now you take the grammar, you take what you've learned and you apply it. So it's. Apply the grammar and now you've got logic and you start to figure things out. And the final part, which is rhetoric is teaching it and teaching it to others because they, for the longest time they, they felt like you couldn't ever really know something unless you were able to teach it to somebody else. Because that, there's an age old saying that says when one person teaches, two people learn. And I've always loved that. And it, this actually, I think you've, you've just naturally created a formula that is based on one of the most classical foundations of how to learn anything in an amazing way which is, yeah, learn it from somebody, apply it and then teach it and pass it on. And I think the plus Equals minus is a is a much easier way to remember than, you know, grammar, logic, and rhetoric. But I know I've used that. Like, I try to always, if I'm learning from somebody, something else, I'll go try to apply it and then. And then pass that knowledge on to somebody else. I see a lot of people, unfortunately, learning something and then trying to pass it on without ever applying it. And then they don't really understand the nuance. They don't understand why something works and why it doesn't, and they can't really explain it because they tried to skip a really important step. That'd be like if you just learned how to, you know, throw punches and kicks and then started teaching it without ever getting your, you know, an ass kicking or kicking ass. But I just thought I'd nerd out on that because I remember when you told me that, I was like, ah, it's like the trivium.

Yeah, well, it seems to be somewhat organic, like human beings that are really interested in stuff, because at a certain age in our life, you know, we want to teach what we know and sort of, you know, pass it on as well as, you know, just articulate it. Like, it just feels good when you're guiding or teaching or showing or doing something with that knowledge. And I certainly noticed in my clients, like, you know, when they hit, like, right around 50 or so, they're like, I need to start mentoring people. But, you know, you can do it at any time. My son is teaching me about motorcycles because he's got 12 years of motorcycles, so he's the plus. I'm just soaking it up and going like, this is amazing. My son is teaching me things. So really, you know, anybody can have the knowledge, and anybody can, you know, start this thing working for you. All you got to do is sort of show up. And I think that's the hardest part for a lot of people is, you know, everyone wants to be the plus. Everyone wants to be, you know, the smart guy. And so they, you know, they don't humble themselves, you know, or when they do, you know, present themselves, it's not in a way of humility. So the plus is like, nah, I'm good. I don't do mentoring. But I've always found, like, when it's presented properly, when, you know, when it's. When it's a true passion, you know, everybody stops and everybody takes that time. Oh, yeah, for sure. Let's, you know, let me sprinkle it on you. And I always talk about my neighbor Les. My neighbor Les has been married to Mary for 47 years. 47. Maybe. Might be 57 now. But anytime I got, like, a marriage problem, I could any type of relate. I go less. And he goes, oh. And he starts talking to me. And it just. Because he has so much experience as another human being, I can just listen to him be like, yep, that's exactly what I need to be thinking. That just changes how I think about things. And then when my son asks me, I tell him the same stuff, like, oh, my God, like, here's what I would try. Because what I was thinking before wasn't as good as what Les was telling me.

Yeah. You know, you have a. There's another great story of a really powerful mentor in your life that you called upon named Henry, who.

And I'd love for you to shine the line on the. Relate the light on the relationship there, because this is one of the things that I've always found really admirable about you. Like you said, you not only humble yourself, but you also find the best teachers, and you find the best people to learn from, study from, and don't act like you know at all. So tell us about. Because I know this was a very pivotal relationship in your life. Your mentor, Henry. Tell us. Tell us about that story.

Sure. Yeah. I Met Henry in 1997 because I won my first world championship. I, you know, was UFC guy. I was, you know, had all these plans, and I'd figured out fighting of sorts. I had a great teacher, mentors in Japan. So I. I knew what I was doing per se, but I didn't know what to do with it. Like, the money, the opportunity. And I could see that it was, you know, shooting up. So I started talking about the need. Like, guys, I need to get, you know, I need to know what to do with it now. And one of my friends turned me on. Oh, you got to talk to Henry Holmes. He does. You know, he knows all about fighting. He knows all about the stuff. So I literally flew to Los Angeles and got a meeting with him. You know, called the secretary, got a meeting with him. He took the time, like, sat down, you know, come on in, kid. Tell me your story. I told my story, and in about 15 minutes, he summarized everything I needed to do. Oh, here's what you got to do. Here's what you got to do. Here's what you got to do. Here's what you got to do. And I was like, okay. And he goes, well, but you're gonna have to change the contracts. You're gonna have to you know, change this, you're going to change that. You know, you're going to have to break some of these things, because the way it's set up right now, you won't be able to do that. You won't be able to achieve the things you want to achieve.

Well, and Henry wasn't just a. He wasn't just like an attorney. He wasn't just somebody like.

Tell folks who, like, who this guy was.

One of the preeminent sports entertainment lawyers. And, you know, he's represented everybody from, you know, Chuck Norris to George Foreman to Mike Tyson. He does a lot of the big pay per view deals. So Henry was, you know, top of the world. In fact, Al Seehorn turned me on to him, and he told me the same thing. Oh, Henry's the best. Like Henry, you know, he did the George Foreman Grill deal. You know, it's like a $200 million deal. So he knew about representing clients. He knew about, you know, licensing. He knew about building on pay per view. He knew about all this stuff that I had questions about. And so when I sat down with him and I literally. I told him my stories. Like, we're talking now, you know, took me maybe 30 minutes. He lets me talk it all out. Then he goes, oh. And then he just. Here's what you need to do. Here's what you need to do. I just broke the entire thing down. You're going to break this contract. You have to become a free agent. You're going to have to do this. You have to protect your brand. You have to own your assets. And he basically told me stuff I'd never even heard of before. Like, I didn't even know these things existed.

You didn't know what you didn't know?

Yeah, they didn't exist. Like, they didn't. It didn't happen. You know, no one knew these things. And so it just exploded my mind that he knew all this stuff. And then, you know, at the end of it, he's like, yeah, I'll help you. Just like that. And I was like, oh, okay. And then we began this relationship, and it started really slow. Like, I would just call me Henry. This is what I'm thinking, you know. You know, here's what I'm thinking about doing. He's like, all right, do this or do that. And I just became this little trickle of information when I had questions. And then that developed into, you know, we need to find a way to get out of this contract. And, you know, let's do this and let's License this and let's create this and we gotta acquire this company. And it's slowly over 20 plus years, you know, it's turned into like a father son relationship where I value his advice so much about so many different things that we become just really close because, you know, we've shared so much together. And then, you know, he had a son later in life. And then all of a sudden I became a mentor to him about being a good parent because he's like, I don't know about these kids and I've never had kids and I'd already had a, you know, 15 year old son. I was like, well, Henry, let me, you know, let me give some of that back to you. So it's become this really wonderful relationship. It's gone on for, you know, decades. But everything he told me from day one, I followed to the letter. Like, if he says, go do this, I'm like, okay. And I go do that. Because he just has, you know, decades of experience and he's already walked the path, he's already done it for other people.

Well, that's the, that's also the power of going to somebody who's the best and humbling yourself to say, look, you've walked this road, I haven't walked this road, and what do you think I should do? And then following their advice and actually, I mean, I know because you, like, I mentor people. You mentor people. One of the best things you can ever do for a mentor of yours is actually follow their advice, right? And one of the worst things is not follow. They give you their advice out of their, whether it's paid or out of the goodness of their heart, you don't follow it. But when people do follow it, and then especially when it works.

That'S such a good feeling for the mentor to feel. I'm sure you've gotten that. You're like, yeah, I told you it'd work. But.

Fast forwarding through your career and I want to talk about reinvention a little bit because this is something that a lot of folks are facing right now in the world is they're trying to figure out, what do I do now, what do I do next? You know, am I just going to continue doing what I was doing? Am I going to find a job doing the similar work, or do I just have to find a way to start a business, figure this out on my own? So you got out of the, you got out of the UFC and then you started Strikeforce and then ended up selling this and had a tremendous.

Success. There. But then you retired and you took. How long did you take off to raise Nick?

About eight years.

Okay. And then somewhat recently you have decided to get back into this world. Now, you didn't completely take off. You've been behind the scenes, you've been producing and executive producing films, etc, etc, but you've also needed. You're not fighting anymore. Although I think what was it about a year and a half ago was your last fight.

Again, I don't know what happened there.

I remember watching that. I was like, man, I'm tired just watching you.

I'm tired just thinking about it.

What was that guy's name? It was the Japanese guy.

Oh, oh, oh, Sakuraba.

Sakuraba, yeah.

Yeah, my old nemesis.

What was that, like 10 minutes straight grappling?

10 minutes. And that was after seven and a half years of doing nothing.

Yeah, lunches. Like that was. That was a tough one.

It looked like it. So let's go, you know, over the past few years, let's talk about reinvention. What have been some of the things that you've been reinventing from the causes you support to the things you're trying to learn and the things you're trying to do out there for other individuals and organizations right now?

For sure. Yeah. I mean, it was hard for me because. And I found, I've since found out that a lot of or most athletes go through this, you know, because you have such a.

You know, a purpose, you know, driven life. And your purpose is to be the best. Your purpose is to do the sport. You know, it's very focused. And then when you retire, like, you literally have no purpose, like there's just nothing to do. And so I went through that phase and, you know, luckily I had my daughter and I was very committed and, you know, involved in that. And that basically was my purpose. But I wasn't doing it for business. All the businesses were either on autopilot or, you know, minor management. And I sold off any assets that required me to show up and be present, you know, every single day. So after about seven, eight years, like, I, you know, I realized I needed to do something. And you know, like we talked about earlier, you know, I got 20 plus felonies. I'm not going to. Can't get a real job. So, you know, I looked into my asset portfolio, which is me and the companies and stuff that I own and my skill set, and my skill set has been presenting, you know, I presented the sport when no one wanted to see it. You know, I presented the business of the Sport when no one wanted to invest in it, and people would, you know, close the door on me and run me out and laugh at me. But I was always very passionate about, you know, presenting this thing I was passionate about. So when I looked at what I was good at, you know, I realized I was good at presenting things I was passionate about. And so then I looked to monetize and create a business around that. And it became the public speaking. It became the public presenting and being a spokesman, you know, as a spokesman for the sport. But I'd never really spokesman much else. And so when I realized, like, I gotta get back to work and, you know, my little girl's off to school, she doesn't really want me hanging out anymore. And when I was looking for things that would keep me excited about, you know, business when, you know, when I'm out swinging the sword, to feel that rush of being, you know, success and risk and having opportunity, and it was presenting, you know, basically speaking about things and connecting things that I was passionate about. And so that's how I got into film producing. That's how I got into asset management, you know, talent management, because I knew what I was doing for myself and I was successful. So I started using that with other things. But I've also just kind of kept this openness about learning. And so a lot of things get attracted to me. A lot of business opportunities, like, you know, licensing deals, you know, consulting deals, you know, speaking. I recently spoke at the middle school that my daughter goes to school to, but it's because the principal heard a story about me and then went, huh? And Googled me and went, wow, that's a great message for what our school needs right now. And so he, you know, hit me up. My website was like, hey, we speak at our school. So there's been a lot of connections because I'm just out there, you know, sharing my passions with things, and people find that interesting. And so I've been connecting with a lot of business opportunities. But I gotta be honest with you, I mean, and you helped me with the speaking is, you know, for me, it was tough to, you know, get up there and share my message because a lot of it is not. A lot of it's not like, you know, wonderful and peaches and cream. A lot of it is tough messaging. And, you know, it took me a while to kind of find my footing in that and find the groups that need that messaging.

Well, you've got such an archetypal story. And I remember when you and I talked about this before, when I hit me after learning your story, I was like, man, have you ever heard of the Hero's Journey? And I don't think you had really heard about it at the time, but. And for the folks who don't understand it, the Hero's Journey, which I believe was really developed out by Joseph Campbell, and I think it was the Hero with a Thousand Faces. But it's the way that stories have really developed throughout our. Our cultural history, and that these are the ones that when they follow this Hero's Journey narrative, they're the ones that get remembered the most. And a lot of people have got some aspects of it, but yours is, like, so spot on. And I just pulled up a graphic here in case I couldn't remember it exactly. But, you know, there's the ordinary world that you find yourself in, which for you, it was a life of, like, abuse and crime as a juvenile, etc. Then there's the, like, the call to adventure. This is where, you know, they're, you know, you. You basically face a choice. And in this case, you mentioned how the choice you made was after prison. It's, I go to. I can be a male stripper. I can be a fighter, like. And there is this refusal of the call as a typical part. We're like, I don't know, I'm hesitating. And I'm sure there was a moment where you hesitated and thought, like, I don't know. But then you meet the mentor, and in, like, this case, it was Bob Shamrock, I guess, and to a degree, your brother. Then you cross the threshold and you decide to get tested and build allies and enemies, et cetera. And this is, you know, crossing the threshold, walking into the dojo, getting beaten up, approaching. I'm not going to go through every aspect of this, but approaching the inmost cave, then the ordeal and then the reward and seizing the sword. And you just mentioned, you know, you face this thing to live and die by the sword. I mean, you. By literally going through this hero's journey. Then there's the road back, the resurrection, right. You know, the road back to.

Resurrecting your career and everything else. And then the final step of the hero's journey is returning with the elixir, and that's returning to the ordinary world and sharing the story, the lessons, the ups, the downs, and the what to do with the world and stepping into that mentor role. And I remember, and I'll put a graphic of this because I'm going to. This is obviously going to be a podcast and on YouTube, etc. And there will be a link to this hero's journey map. But I think for you specifically in telling your story, I mean, you've lived every single step almost like out of a movie of the hero's journey. And there's a lot that people can learn from you on that. And that's one of the reasons I found it so fascinating not to work with you on the professional aspect. But then obviously we get along great as buddies as well. But I think it's rare to find people who have lived this hero's journey or who epitomize it every single step of the way. And, and yours not even just a hero's journey, a warrior's journey. And you've got this, you've got a program, is that right? Like, tell me more about the program you have. Like you've got, you've trained from the executives at Google and other companies, et cetera, but you've got this Warriors. Is it the warriors way or the Warrior's code? That's right, the warriors code.

Explain to the folks watching and listening a little bit about what you take people through. And some of this because it's really fascinating how you give them a piece, the elixir that you bring back to them.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

The warriors code came because I got a call from Google and they were like, hey, we want you to come coach our team.

And it was the G Tech team. It was very high level team. Most of the people had, you know, 20 plus years of executive leadership and management. So it was the first time. And this was when I was just coming back to work and kind of waking up from, you know, relaxing and parenting. And it was the first time I really sat down and sort of went through the modules and the events in my life that allowed me to get to where I was. It was the first time where I kind of put it all out on paper because I keep my notes and I keep my journal, but I had never really compartmentalized those sections and sort of looked at what I was doing so that I could teach that to somebody else. And so I created this entire program for the G Tech team and called it the Warriors Code. And basically it's the journey we just talked about. But it starts with making some decisions, some introspection, some self discoveries. And then it has those step modules to achieve the things you want to achieve. And some of that is dealing with your past, some of that is setting up your future, some of that is aligning your present moment. And then the Next phase is sort of taking action and swinging that sword, if you will, making some decisions on those things that should be in your program each and every day. And then the final step is basically, you know.

Making those actions into your realities, you know, turning those little modules and those steps into what you're doing now. And it's. It's, you know, really translates into what people need to be doing now in this time of uncertainty. Because anybody can be anything with technology, with, you know, with what's going on this world. I mean, everyone's working from home now. Anybody can create, you know, a good program, a good story, a good, you know, learning module, a good teaching module, a good competition module, technology, a book. Anybody can create anything right now. And, you know, for me, it was. It was both hard and easy because I had nothing else going on in my life. You know, I. One chance to be successful, I thought, and that was through fighting. But when that ended, I had to create new opportunities.

And a lot of people are facing that right now. They have to create new opportunities. And it's the one thing that I think is focusing on creating new opportunities is the place that you can focus to maintain sanity in a time like this and give yourself a leg up when everybody else is a deer in headlights, panicking and.

Running from the unknown. I mean, you face that. You've faced much more dangerous predicaments than what we're all in right now. But speaking of maintaining sanity, I want to jump over a little bit to one of the big causes that you and your foundation, the Shamrock Way, support, and that's helping not only end the stigma, but provide resources to mental health. And I think right now, every single person is facing anxiety, depression, uncertainty, and degrees of mental health. I mean, is one of the most important things right now. Let's talk about some of the work you're doing with mental health and helping to end the stigma and bring resources.

To it, for sure. Yeah. Well, I'm an ambassador for NAMI. You can find them@nami.org, they have tremendous resources for mental health and mental health communities. And a lot of the resources now have moved to online. Before. They did a lot of social activities, a lot of walking, stuff like that. And today just happens to be World Bipolar Day. So we support bipolar and have for many years. My brother Perry, who passed away two years ago, he was bipolar. And one of my best friends, Mauro Ranallo, he is bipolar. So we're very close to that. And we. We're constantly pushing against the stigma because it still exists in a big, big way. And, you know, the biggest action you can take in moving mental illness from a stigma to, you know, normality is just talking about it, just sharing it, you know, because in truth, you know, when you keep that stuff in, when you isolate yourself, when you disconnect from communities and you start living in your own head. I lived in my head for years. It's a terrible place to live. It's so much better to be with other people and to share what's going on inside. And I think we're slowly approaching that. The film we made, the Bipolar Rock and Roller with Mauro Renal that we aired on Showtime just has been tremendous in impacting people because it shows Morrow's daily struggle, which is he struggles each day with bipolar.

Yeah. And for the. For folks who don't know, number one, Mauro Ranallo, if that. If the name doesn't already ring a bell, if you. I mean, if you follow Fighting Sports, you probably know who he is because he's probably the most prolific sports announcer from MMA to boxing to wrestling. And he is at the absolute top of his. Of the industry as far as who he is. But he is. He battles really massive bipolar. And the movie Bipolar Rock and Roller, which, by the way, I can't remember, there is a place for them for people to go watch this for free. It was on Showtime exclusively. But what was the website that people can visit to watch this on their own?

It's@bipolarmovie.org right?

Yeah. Bipolarmovie.org yeah. And it was. It's just so amazing to see that.

Just because you have a.

Really big mental health issue does not mean you cannot lead a highly productive and amazing life.

And that the struggles are sometimes part of it. But I think a lot of people who battle with mental illness, they think, oh, this defines me. And moral is a perfect example of somebody it doesn't define. And I think the work that, you know, doing with. With that has just been. Is phenomenal and probably more topical than ever, especially, I mean, since today is national. What is it by National Bipolar Day? Is that today?

World Bipolar Day?

World Bipolar Day.

Absolutely. And so, yeah, you folks can go see. See that@bipolarmovie.org Some people may have even seen it when it came out on Showtime. And if folks want to even get involved with that, does the Shamrock Way Foundation. Do you guys have more resources for people on the website?

Yeah, we have some resources on the website. What we have really@shamrockway.org is connection opportunities. So if you want to volunteer For a home build or for a campaign that we do or volunteer to help share through social messaging. We've got those modules set up for our nonprofit and it's all volunteers. So you'll be with a group of people exactly like yourself. But I think that's the biggest thing. Like, you know, everybody has mental health. Like everybody has something to support. That's why having a good program, having a good schedule, you know, maintaining your mind, body and spirit is so.

Important. Because when you have these stressors, like we'll have jobs tomorrow, we don't know if you know who's going to die. Those things don't go away without, or settle down without some work. And it's not like the gym where you can go work it out. It's not like martial arts where you can spar and train and get accustomed to it because they just exist. But you can deal with it by having a good solid schedule and by working on the things that you know you should be working on that have the most important things that have the most importance in your life.

Well, and you started off this entire interview talking about how the schedule is one of the things that the reschedule, the routine in this time of, you know, self imposed lockup that we're all facing is that's one of the things that kind of keeps you on a, you know, kind of keeps you sane, keep you productive. And is that because you not only manage Mauro, you're one of his best friend, but also you help him through a lot of this stuff. Has the like keeping. Does he keep. Is his routine a big part of his own mental health regimen?

Definitely, yeah. Routine is everything because getting out of routine and you see it with severe mental illness like schizophrenia and autism and stuff where you break the routines and the machines fall apart. So for all of us and for all of our mental health, it's so important to have a good structure in place throughout your day. And then, you know, if you think of it as modules like however you want to, segments, however, hours, however you want to think about it, you know, each in there needs to be the mind, the body and the spirit. So that's working now, you know, that's hanging out with friends, talking to people, you know, Skype, whatever, in this time. And then, you know, taking care of your mind in certain ways by learning. Because the minute you stop learning, the minute you stop, you know, dreaming, the minute you stop planning, you know, everything goes to zero. And that's when you start getting affected by stress and stressors and Anxiety, you.

Know, along those lines. That's one of the things that I've noticed as well, mental health wise, is that, you know, because these days we don't know when life is going to get back to any degree of normalcy of just being out in public. And I've noticed just the lack of ability to plan something, like a plan a social outing, plan a. A dinner with somebody else, or just have a vacation or just having something to look forward to is. Can be really, really stressful. And it's one of those things that crept into my brain going like, man, why am I feeling more anxious besides the obvious? And I was like, man, because, you know, you don't have anything to plan. You don't have anything to look forward to. And in the beginning of this, I wasn't really sticking to as much of a schedule. Like, I usually go to the gym, I usually do a bunch of other stuff and get together with people like one once a week at least. And I wasn't really being able to stick to that. I wasn't able to stick to the gym. And it wasn't until I really realized that, yeah, I got to get my own schedule and my own routine back on track. And it's more important now than ever that I started to kind of come around. But, yeah, like, but you said planning just. Just the lack of anything to plan and have fun with. It's hard, but I like being able to plan these, you know, conversations with you and with, you know, other people. I think, you know, all of us using this as an opportunity to connect with people digitally, even if nothing else, is a great thing for, for folks to do. Frank, if there's other folks out there who would love to talk to you about speaking digitally on their platforms, that's one of the things that a lot of businesses are doing now is they're taking their conferences virtual. They're doing, you know, a lot of people have podcasts and shows, et cetera.

Are you making yourself available for appearances on digital stages besides just mine?

Yeah, totally. Yeah. I got a section of the day carved out for hanging out with people in a digital space and speaking on stages. And if you're interested in that, you can reach out to me@frank shamrock.com and contact me there. It's pretty easy. But, yeah, I mean, this is how I'm hanging out with folks because there's little else. And, you know, on that same note, like, a lot of my clients are doing telemedicine, telehealth, you know, telepsychiatry, like a lot of the businesses have just shifted overnight. So whereas, you know, one of my psychiatric, psychiatric friends used to drive down and see 100 patients a day, he sits at home and pops on his computer and he's connecting with the world and doing this whole thing. And he's in his 70s, so like, anybody can, you know, adjust to what the needs are. He's also working out every day and eating well. So those are key factors is mind, body, spirit, each and every day. I was just talking to a friend just earlier today, and he's like, well, how are you dealing with it? And I was joking. I was like, well, little has changed for me. You know, I'm used to doing time like this is every day. But if you imagine that you were doing time and your day was broken up in these little segments because that's all there was. That's all there is, folks. If you plan out your day and you make sure it's mind, body and spirit, you're going to feel good at the end of the day and have made progress on the things that are important to you. And that's what I think, you know, that's what takeaway is for me. Now it's like we all have the choice. I can hang out with you. I can hang out with my buddy. We're not bumping, you know, knocks, but we're still hanging out and still getting that good spiritual vibe.

Yeah, well, we can. A little screen bump here.

I like it. Well, and speaking of hanging out with me, I really appreciate you taking the time today to hang out. We're on, you know, we're on Facebook Live. This is going on the Bacon Wrapped Business podcast. And if you, I mean, if you're watching this on my Facebook Live and you don't know how to find bacon wrapped business, shame on you. But no, once more, I just really appreciate this. I always enjoy talking to you and this is a fun way to do it in a more public way where I get to not only get to share the stories that I already know from our existing friendship, but to even hear some of the aspects that I haven't really drilled down on in the past. And there's a ton of things that I've learned from you. And I know sometimes when things get hard or if I'm in a state where I need to kind of summon this, that warrior mentality, I'm like, what would Frank do?

Wwfd.

And I can't wait until we can go outside again and organize another home build. Whether it's in Mexico or you've done some home builds up in. With the Inuit folks up in. Was it Nova Scotia or.

Where were you in Newfoundland? That's supposed to go. We're supposed to go next to Newfoundland for the home build. So hopefully we'll get off lockdown in time to do the build this year because August is the best time to go up there. Yeah. Yeah. I'd love for you to come. It's going to be a great time because, you know, they're just completely isolated from the world, so only what happens in that community and Facebook is what happens in their world. And so it's gonna be a great opportunity for mentors and entrepreneurs and just people, you know, wanting to share a good message to go up and help teach this community. Basically, it's a thousand people living in the middle of nowhere.

Wow.

Yeah. So I'm excited about that. So I'm trying to get the legs in place right now, but I'm not sure how. How productive we're gonna be until this thing stops.

Everything's on hold for a bit, but that was one of the most fun things that I've done. And, I mean, obviously the company we had with us didn't hurt.

That being said, those who know know. Well, Frank, that kind of brings us to the end of this episode, and I want to just thank you for being a part of it and thank everybody who's been watching this and commenting for being a part of it as well.

For those of the folks who want more information on Frank, you can just simply go to Frank Shamrock.com or follow him at Frank Shamrock Everywhere on the Interwebs. And if you are enjoying this on Facebook Live, stay tuned. If you're listening on the podcast episode and you're not a subscriber, go ahead and subscribe. And if you have any questions you want to ask me, you can always shoot an email to askbradbaconrappedbusiness.com Anything else you want to share with the folks before we sign off, Frank?

Just make sure you wash your hands, everybody.

That's right. Wash your hands.

All right.

Thanks again, Frank. I appreciate your time. And for everybody else, thanks for tuning in. I appreciate you.