Going Public from Equity Crowdfunding To IPO with Darren Marble

Welcome back to Bacon Wrap business. This is Brad Costanzo and today I've got a really fun guest on the show. It's a guy that I've met a few times in the past and was really impressed by what he was doing. I was introduced to him by another friend and former guest on the show, David Metzler, when we were talking about equity crowdfunding and raising capital in all of the new ways that have really come to fruition in the past few years, allowing entrepreneurs and business owners to access capital that for the longest time was unreachable to them. And that has to do with the crowdfunding model. And this is not the crowdfunding model where it's just Kickstarter where, you know, I think a lot of us are familiar with that. But this is really using the crowds to raise equity and capital and millions and millions of dollars in ways that as I said have just been our hands have been tied up until recent and semi recent regulations and developments. So Darren Marble, who is here today is the co CE and director of Crush Capital. He's also a serial entrepreneur. In 2018, Daring Co founded issuance which is a leading provider of software as a service solution for Regulation A. This is a method of crowdfunding. We're going to talk about issuers now. Issuances. His companies reg a clients have raised over $150 million to date. And beginning in 2015, Darren was the founder and CEO of Crowdfund X which is where I personally met him. But it's a financial marketing firm that is really focused on direct to investor retail marketing in connection with these regulation A offerings. Crowdfund X was acquired by issuance back in 2019 and Darren remains the CEO of that company. He founded the Crowd Invest Summit and he's a contributor to Business Insider, Crypto Slate and his insights have been featured from the Wall Street Journal to the New York Times, Forbes, LA Business Journal and a lot. I reconnected with Darren just recently over on LinkedIn because I've been paying more and more attention to.

Equity crowdfunding and what's going on. But then I also saw that he's coming out really soon. I don't know if it's out yet. He'll tell us with a really cool streaming program on Entrepreneur called Going Public. Well, that's the intro, Darren. Without any further ado, welcome. Welcome to Bacon Wrap business. It's good to have you.

Thanks Brad. Really, really appreciate the very kind and generous introduction and great to be on. Thanks for having me, man.

Now my Pleasure. You know, on the show I cover a lot of topics from everything from little micro marketing tactics to, you know, ways that entrepreneurs can kind of get their heads around, big challenges to how to generate leads with Facebook ads. But recently and over the past year, I've been doing a lot more deals on, I guess I should say episodes on acquisitions, raising capital, finding ways to really move the needle exponentially in your business. And that's one of the reasons, because I love what you're doing and I love what you're helping businesses do with raising capital in these innovative ways. So I just love to kind of just dive in and just start hearing about. Let's give my audience kind of a fundamental overview if they're not familiar with equity crowdfunding and reg A and what this is all about. But let's give them a quick primer and then talk about some of the cool stuff that companies are able to do right now with these innovations.

Totally. So Regulation A is a securities exemption. It was part of the 2012 Jobs act, went into effect in the US in mid-2015. It's got a couple unique features. Companies can raise up to $50 million. They can market their deal, which is known as general solicitation in the securities industry. And anyone over the age of 18, globally can legally invest into these offerings, provided the company follows the process, which involves a filing with the sec, et cetera. And so it's created a really incredible opportunity for small businesses as well as companies that have a customer base to turn their customers and fans into investors. Even for pre product, pre revenue companies, it gives them an opportunity to go out and solicit investment in their deal. And we've had success raising 10, 15, 20, even $25 million for companies, some that are pre revenue. And everything that I've been doing for the past five years really focused on solving for retail distribution, which is a marketing question. How does the industry, or how do companies in particular create mass awareness for their investment opportunity and ultimately drive thousands of retail investors into their offering? And that's essentially what we've solved for with this new series going Public, which I'm really excited to share with you.

Yeah, I want to dive into that before I go to the going public. I want to ask just a couple questions and maybe this will because I know there have been some changes since I started looking into equity crowdfunding a while back. So there's typically a couple types of equity crowdfunding, right? There's the ones that are only to accredited investors. Is that a reg D Is that what that's called?

Yeah. So breakdown is as follows. So regulation D506C is crowdfunding to accredited investors. Actually, the way it works is you're able to market your deal, but you have to verify that every investor that comes into the deal is an accredited investor. So you can buy $100,000 of Facebook ads, but you can only take in money from people that verify they're accredited through a letter from a CPA or third party investor verification service. Then you have regulation crowdfunding, Also known as Reg CF, this went into effect in 2016, allows companies to raise up to a million dollars, generally solicit and anyone can invest in the deal. So non accredited retail investors. And then reg A plus is kind of the biggest of these exemptions. $50 million general solicitation and anyone over 18 globally can legally invest without being accredited. And so we think of reg A as kind of the kingpin exemption because it provides issuers and investors the most opportunity from a capital raising side and investment opportunity perspective. And it's kind of the part of the JOBS act that we're most passionate and experienced about.

Beautiful. So the costs involved, like with a reg A plus deal, for instance, if I'm a. Well, let's talk about the ideal kinds of companies that should probably pursue this and what is kind of a range of the costs that it would, it would be in order to get this done. Granted, it's a lot less than a traditional ipo, but.

Yeah, that's right.

What, yeah. So what are the, what are the types of companies that like either at what size you mentioned pre revenue, but who are the ones that really should start to kind of look at this? Because this is where my listeners can be like, should I, should I stay in and listen to this or should I tune out? Because this is too complex for me.

I think for the most part Reg A is a good capital raising tool for businesses that have at least two years of operating history. They've probably raised an angel or even a series A round of financing. And they have a customer base. So they have an emerging brand with customers and fans. Maybe they're doing 5 million, 10 million, $50 million in revenue. Again, we've had success running these financings for pre product and pre revenue companies. And those of course seem to generate a lot of notoriety because people are kind of intrigued. How does that happen? How does a pre revenue company raise $25 million out of thin air? Of course, it's never that easy, but those are the exception deals. So for the Most part, Reg A is a good fit for direct to consumer retail companies that have easy to understand businesses, physical, tangible products built in customer base, a narrative. And in terms of the cost of capital, overall, it's going to cost about 10% of what you raise with maybe 10 to 20% of that upfront. So here's what that means. Company goes out and succeeds in raising $10 million in a reg A plus financing, they would anticipate spending 100 to $200,000 upfront out of pocket to get the process started, and then another 800 or $900,000 on the back end of the deal as the capital comes in and ultimately they close the offer. So usually takes about a month to Prepare the filing, two months to get qualified by the SEC. And then these capital raises are usually ongoing for three to six months. And a successful outcome again might be a $10 million raise with a 10% overall cost of capital between all the service providers, technology compliance, audit, legal that are required for success.

Perfect. No, that's beautiful. That is the exact bullet points I was looking for. So.

What I love about this is it's not something, you know, going out like I advise and I'm partners and you know, a couple companies that are out there trying to raise VC money and angel seed. And it's really, really complicated and it's exhausting. One of the things that I like about this, it does, is it utilizes a lot of the traditional or even innovative digital marketing solutions in order to get this out to people. So where you aren't having to go out and do as much of a roadshow as you would normally have to if you're just talking to the big players with money. And it kind of democratizes that for a lot of folks.

Okay, so cool. So let's talk about how does this play into the show going public that you're. Are you starring in it too, or are you producing it?

Well, we're creators of the series and the ethos behind the show, Brad, is real simple. We believe that customers deserve an opportunity to become owners and businesses whose products and services they use. And an easy example is Uber. You know, we all use the app. That company was built on the back of millions of customers around the world, and yet those customers never had an opportunity to become owners until the company went public. And now they can buy, we can buy shares of Uber, you know, in secondary markets, as they say. But that's not. Doesn't provide the average investor a lot of upside. Why? Because Uber stayed private for 10 years. They raised Billions of dollars in private markets, all the values been wrung out in the early rounds of financing. The people who really got rich or even wealthy in that deal were the early investors, none of whom were existing customers. And we think that that's a crime, that that's not the way that these deals should work. Companies should allow their customers to become owners. Without customers, there is no business. And so it's ironic to me that you hear venture capitalists talk all the time like, well, show me your traction. Who are your customers? What's the demographic of your customers? But when it comes to financing the business, the customers are never mentioned. They're always excluded because why would you allow the customer to enjoy the upside of being an owner? And from most VCs perspective, you wouldn't. So we're here to change that. And the premise of Going Public is we're following five founders on their journey to a NASDAQ ipo, following the trials and tribulations of the going public process, which is filled with drama, excitement and panic all in a handful of weeks. And for the first time ever, we're allowing viewers of this series to actually Invest into the IPOs. They're buying IPO shares at the IPO price while they're watching the series. And season one is going to be streamed on entrepreneur.com we're forecasting about 2 million unique viewers per episode. And the series culminates with these companies closing their financings. The bell ringing ceremony at NASDAQ market site in Times Square, New York. And then for the tens of thousands of everyday Americans who buy these IPO shares, they're now liquid. They have the ability to sell their stock. There's no lockup. This is what democratization of the IPO means and it's what we're delivering in the Going Public series.

I love that. So is there a reg A aspect to this then? Is that how they're getting in prior to the NASDAQ ipo?

That's correct. So every one of these deals is technically what's referred to as a reg A plus ipo. So the reg A plus is the financing vehicle. And what happens is the deal might be open for six weeks. People are watching the series. Click to invest. By the way, they're also investing alongside institutional investors. So all of these deals are being underwritten by an investment bank that we work with in LA called Roth Capital. And that means retail is investing at the same price as the smart money or institutional investors. But these are all Reg A plus deals. So financing window might be open for six weeks, company closes the reg A round and then very quickly, almost immediately lists their shares to nasdaq. The company is now public. So six weeks of financing followed by a closing and an IPO ceremony.

That's super cool. I love how you married both of these things together as well with.

It'S reggae to the IPO provides the liquidity. Because that's one of the problems if you're a reggae investor. If you put the money in and it's semi public. Right. Like they've raised a lot of money. But it doesn't necessarily mean that there is a market for those shares, a secondary market to where you can get your money out. But with this, you get a little bit of the best of both worlds as an investor that, hey, I was an early investor in, I got the IPO if it popped cool. But either way, there's a secondary market. I love the, the marriage of those two. What you said there's five companies right now that you're following. You may not be able to say like which companies those are, but can you give me some insight into like the kinds of companies they are?

Totally. So I should start by saying, you know, when most people think of an ipo, when I think of an ipo, the first thought I have, for better or worse, is a white guy in a suit and tie, a little bit conservative, somewhere in New York, in their 40s or 50s. And I think that's just what a lot of everyday Americans tend to think about when they think about the IPO process. It's kind of, there's a stereotype to it. We want to completely shatter that stereotype. So we are committed to showcasing a diverse cast of minority female younger founders who are truly representative of the entrepreneurial fabric of the United States and the entrepreneurial economy in this country today.

For instance, we have a young founder, 27 year old Hispanic male, who is behind a direct to consumer company. Can't say the industry founded this company three years ago. $30 million in sales, all direct to consumer. That was 2019, on his way to $40 million in sales in 2020. This company, Brad, is profitable. They have no debt. They have half a million paying customers. This guy's a rock star. He not only wants to raise capital and create brand awareness for his business, he wants to inspire other young Hispanic founders to go down the entrepreneurial path just like him. So this is really an opportunity for him to provide inspiration, guidance and encouragement for young founders to start businesses, to become entrepreneurs, to build their own companies and to be their Own boss. And we're inspired by this founder. So that's just a taste of what we're going to showcase. The bottom line is we're going to showcase a very diverse group of founders for the inaugural season as well as a host that we're close to announcing in the next three to four weeks. Who? She fits that profile as well.

I love that. I love that.

Cool. So when do you think this will be launching? Or I mean, is it premiering, I guess is the word.

So we're casting for the next four months. We'll then go into production in the end of the year and maybe early 2021. And the season is slated to be streamed on entrepreneur.com in the March April timeframe right now. So These are essentially Q1, Q2 financing events, IPOs for the companies we feature. And so right now is kind of the casting phase is finding these great founders that not just are charismatic or interesting, but have great companies that represent good investment opportunities for people as well. Really important to us.

So are you still casting? Are you still actually looking for. Oh, cool, I thought those were already.

Oh no, man.

This is it.

We announced the series so we can really transition and focus on casting. And I'll tell you, I'm a fan of Shark tank. I've seen 100 episodes. I think a lot of us have seen that show, know people that have been on and raised money, had success even. But one of the things we're not going to do is poke fun at founders or, you know, take advantage of founders. Honestly, this series is about serving up incredible companies that represent the hope and opportunity that is, you know, pervasive in the United States here and really embodies the entrepreneurial spirit in the best ways. Neither is this a competition series. This isn't American Idol. These companies all standalone and they're raising capital independent of the other. The format is what's called a serialized narrative. The companies are introduced in a staggered start, they close their financings and IPO and a staggered finish over a 10 week season with episodes released weekly. But again, we're not trying to make fun of founders, we're not trying to tease founders. Neither are we trying to highlight companies that are really bad businesses for one reason or another. So this is a highly curated group of founders and that's why we're putting so much emphasis into those first companies that are going to be featured in season one.

Yeah, you know, that's one of the things about like Shark Tank, because it is prime time to the mass of America. They have to add drama and conflict and they have to add that almost.

Sometimes belligerent experience between, you know, the founders and the sharks. I mean, there's a reason it's called Shark Tank, right? Sharks aren't nice, cuddly teddy bears. You know, they're gonna be, you know, they're gonna be a little bit more hardcore with these people. And I know you can tell if you watch this that they sometimes bring in founders or inventors who don't really have a chance, but they know it's just going to be good dramatic television to create that. I love the fact that yours is streaming on Entrepreneur and it's obviously it's not going, although it could be very easily adopted by the mass market and ideally it will and everybody will see that the people who are watching this are probably going to be a little bit more educated, professional, understanding that, you know, hey, look, I don't need to see the drama just for drama's sake. I actually want to see the journey and the ups and the downs and the, you know, of the entrepreneur and hopefully be inspired by what they see in the growth of that. So I think that's super cool. Are there any types like, shoot, you never know, you could get some casting, some, what do you call, auditions out of this. What are some of the ideal companies? You started to mention this earlier that you're looking for right now. So that if one of my listeners is like, oh man, that sounds like me totally.

Really, it's the same type of companies we'd look for in general in the reg A industry direct to consumer, physical, tangible product, retail oriented businesses. Companies that have a customer base, tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of customers. We're looking for a minimum of 5 million in annual revenue. Ideally we'd like companies that are doing 20, 25 million or more. Companies that have a fairly easy to understand business. So it could be a medical technology company, it's a little more complicated. But wouldn't be engineering services or oil and gas or something just really boring. Or by the way, those could be great investments, but that's not what we're serving up here. We want that the average person can understand quickly and not only become an investor in the business, but to buy the product as well. Right. This is a customer acquisition opportunity for the companies we're featuring. You could have that raises $40 million and also generates 5 or $10 million in sales from the exposure of being in the series week after week for 10 weeks and having millions of people watch them on their journey and get excited about the product or service they're selling.

That's fantastic.

The other beautiful thing, we didn't touch this, but obviously talk about a customer retention strategy that if you have this, if you're able to give, especially if you're on a subscription based product, let's say you sell supplements, for instance, and you got a great brand and you give your customers the opportunity to not only buy from you on a subscribe and save program, but actually have stock in your company, the retention of those customers is going to be dramatically higher simply because, well, why would I go give my money to a company I don't own when I can give my money to a company that I have a piece of ownership in? So from the company standpoint, that's such a powerful strategy. One question I've always had about Reg A plus deals.

Does how much does it complicate the cap table for companies? Because I've heard of, I've had a lot of conversations with other entrepreneurs who've thought about doing this and they've kind of looked into it. Maybe they didn't look into it that deep, but they were like, you know, it just, it sounds like it would just be a big pain to manage the cap table of that many people. Like, let's say Now I have 5,000 or 1,000 small, tiny investors. And then if I want to go really up market and raise more money from really smart like VC money, et cetera, that they're worried that that might kind of, you know, cloud the cap table in a way that just makes them less attractive. And I've never gotten an answer to that. I don't think I've ever sought an answer, but maybe you can address that.

Yeah, look, I mean, I think cap table management is not as complicated as it once used to be. And there are a number of products and service providers that are active in this space that make it very simple to bring on or acquire 5,000 shareholders and very easily communicate with them on a regular, ongoing basis. I'll tell you Roth Capital, who's the Underwriter for the IPOs in this series, they believe it's a huge selling point for their salespeople to go out to their institutional clients and say, hey, these two IPOs are going to be featured in the Going Public series. We think they're going to generate 20,000 individual investors. They think that's a huge selling point for a pension fund, a family office, a hedge fund. Because interestingly, those retail investors, Brad, they act like institutions. The customers are long term. They're generally Buying the stock because they align with the vision, the mission of the founder and the brand, not because they're day traders or flippers. That's not who these people are for the most part. So that's actually a selling point for smart money in this series and we're pioneering this. But that's, I think that's how the future of IPOs are going to be conducted.

I hope so.

Having, you know, 5% go to retail, maybe 50% is placed with institutions, and then there's a 50, you know, percent allocation or $20 million allocation for the customers, the fans, the followers, the viewers. And the beauty is everybody's coming in and buying the same shares at the same price. So the smart money's not coming in at a 50% discount and getting a sweetheart deal. They're literally buying the same shares at the same price.

Okay, so that brings me to, I guess, the one other question that I don't know, which is, I know whenever you're raising money.

It can be like, now, you've got big, especially the bigger, smarter deals. You've got.

People, if things don't go right, they can make a big hassle, whether it's lawsuits or just being hard to communicate with and very demanding, etc. Does this open it up for, like, if I've got, you know, 5,000, you know, new investors are there, is it causing much of a headache? Not even just from managing the cap table, but just from, you know, communicating what's going on, having non sophisticated investors who, you know, because when it is opened up to people who can.

You know, throw the money out there where they're not used to understanding regular risks, et cetera, just causing a headache from an investor relations standpoint or legal standpoint? Like, has that really been an issue for some of the companies that you've seen that they've had to deal with?

It really hasn't so far. I mean, this industry has been in existence for five years. Two and a half billion dollars of capital has been raised. Hundreds of companies have gone down this path successfully and raised capital under Reg. A. I can think of maybe one, maybe two lawsuits in the past five years. I don't think they went anywhere. It's not to say that there's no risk taking in thousands of investors. But again, these are Reg. A filings. Every investor has an opportunity to review hundreds of pages of disclosure for any of these businesses. So there's a tremendous transparency involved in this process, which is why we're big fans of this securities exemption. And investors are able to read disclosure, understand risk in terms of shareholder communication. Again, I think that's an opportunity for these companies and you hit it on the head earlier. Imagine having 10,000 brand ambassadors that are investors in the company. They own stock, they're customers that are on a subscription model. Those will be the highest lifetime value customers that business will ever have, period, end of story. So the investors will undoubtedly buy more product, become longer term customers, have a lower churn rate, be less likely to ever use a competitor's products and be more likely to talk about the fact that they're an owner in the business and share that with their family, their friends on social media. That's worth having a part time investor relations person who sends out weekly or monthly communications and does webinars. So I think that it's fairly easy to manage communications and we're seeing companies effectively do that all the time now post reggae financing when they have 5, 10,000 shareholders and they all look at that as a net positive to have 10,000 shareholders that are now the most powerful brand ambassadors they'll ever have and.

Likely customers not, you know, exactly what's the old hair club for men? I'm not just a hair club. I'm not just the president of hair club. I'm also a, you know, customer. Yeah, exactly. It's exactly like along those lines. It's like I am not only a shareholder, I'm also a customer. And you know, this is one of those things where if you, if you go really macro out and you back this out, you kind of alluded to this. But one of the biggest problems we've got right now, and especially with a lot of the racial unrest and a lot of the other stuff that we've been seeing, a lot of that really stems from social media economic inequalities and big discrepancies in the people. And it's growing and the people who, the haves and the haves nots, right, and the middle class is shrinking. And one of those reasons is because the, a lot of times, you know, we talk about equal opportunity, but opportunities for investing in startups and things that can really make a dramatic difference have not been equal opportunity. It's really only been available for the biggest, most entrenched players. Those with money get the access and influence with the fee, you know, with the, with the deals that can set them up for life. Everybody else has to wait till it trades on the open market and you know, they can't do it or they can't make money.

You know, they can't go Raise money if they don't have a lot of the, what do you call it, the credentials, qualifications, capital and ability to do that. Because there is kind of an old boys network and club in traditional investment banking and things like that. So I love how this, not only once more we use the word democratize.

Capital raising for people, but also yeah, for just the ability to hit find unicorns and hit home runs where you're just an average person making average wage. You can actually participate in something that you've never really been able to do. So and really looking forward to see some, you know, more great stories about companies who or investors who jumped into deals and retired off of something that ended up working out. I know. Has it been too early in the reg A space you mentioned? It's kind of really only been around for about five years. Has it been too early to have any of those real unicorn stories yet or no?

Yeah, look, I think it is too early and admittedly there were problems, there have been problems in past reg A financings. I think the biggest challenge the industry has seen is that there's been a lack of institutional quality deals, a lack of institutional pricing applied to the past IPOs. And we've proactively solved for these issues by partnering with a reputable investment bank, Roth Capital, that's going to firm commitment, underwrite the IPOs, apply institutional pricing and give everyday Americans an opportunity to own a piece of a company that could be the next Amazon, that could be the next Google. And of course there's no guarantees. And any type of investment there's always some risk of losing some or all of your money. But without risk there's no reward either. Both of these things are true and we think that in General Small cap IPOs have proven for a long time to have outsized returns relative to other types of investments, et cetera.

That's really what we're serving up here, our high quality small cap IPOs with the hope that we can uncover one of those companies that retail investors have a real opportunity to make a good return on. And I think if you look at what's happening in the economy and the millions of people that are unemployed and just Today, I mean GDP is down like 30%, something insane. People are looking for a leg up. They're looking for something to get back to even or even above where they are if they haven't been impacted. And I think this is a pretty interesting opportunity, it's a pretty interesting investment proposition for the general public to invest in a small cap ipo. But again Goes to the point of why we're so focused on the first batch of companies for the inaugural season. I think that will really set the pace and set the trajectory for where this series goes in the years ahead.

I love it. I love it. And I hope that some of my listeners, if they have some of the qualifications that you're looking for, get a hold of you. By the way, if somebody does want to apply for the show, what's a, what's a good place that they can go to get more information and fill out some paperwork?

Well, they can go to goingpublic.com today and apply to be considered for season one at the same time. So application casting is now open and we're taking applications on going public. Calm.

That's beautiful. Now what, besides just finding some, you know, some great, you know, auditions and companies for going public, are there any particular nuts you're trying to crack right now? And by that I mean, it could mean, you know, maybe it's a business or challenge you're trying to, you know, figure out or overcome. Maybe it's a person you're trying to meet or hire or just something that allows us, myself, and maybe even my listeners to go, man, I may have a solution for that and reach out proactively to help you.

It's a really good question.

If not, it's okay. But this is just one of those we can get back.

I'll tell you. We're building a global brand. We're looking for incredibly talented people to join the Crush Capital team that believe in democratizing access to investment opportunities for everyday Americans, leveling the playing field for everyday Americans, and are passionate about brand building. So we own goingpublic.com, we own the Twitter Instagram handle, and yet our social audience is young and growing. We're looking for incredibly talented marketers to come in and help us build our profile and build our brand because we clearly have an opportunity to build something big here with this brand. So we are hiring companies can. Or people, I should say can connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active there. But we are building a team and I'd say that's something that's top of mind. In addition to casting for season one.

Very cool. Do you have any kind of like.

Job opening style resources page of the kind of roles you're looking to hire?

We don't now, but people can just contact me on LinkedIn. We're a little bit less formal than that at the moment, but we are actively hiring employees and we just had to start this week and found a director of communications and a product manager. So hit me on LinkedIn and would love to learn more about anyone who's interested in being a part of our mission.

I love it. Well, I'll definitely make a Link to your LinkedIn profile available here in the show notes. People can go click on it, check it out. I know you and I are connected. This is great. I really appreciate some of the insight into this. Like when I started to go down the rabbit hole and learn about this, it was really, you know, David Metzler was the one who kind of really introduced me to it and you know, he and I are close friends and then he started to go down this route and I learned enough of it at the high level to be just somewhat knowledgeable. But it was still like five years ago and it was in the brand new infancy so there was still so many unanswered questions and how do you do this? I love the fact that it's, it's matured a little bit. People like yourself who've been doing this the whole time, you've seen the ups and downs and ins and outs and you kind of, you know, it's no longer your first rodeo. So it's super cool. And it's one of those things that after the past few years I actually hadn't been paying that close of attention to it, but I started to now more so and I am looking forward to watching, going public and seeing, you know, how this all develops out. So Darren, once more. This, this kind of brings us to the end of the episode or as I call them on Bacon Rat business epicizzles because they too damn hot. But I really appreciate your time today and sharing what's working. I can't wait to see you going public when it goes public.

It's on, Brad. Looking forward to it man. Thank you.

Alright, my man. Well, thank you and for all my listeners, if you have enjoyed this episizzle, there's a couple of things you can do. You can always subscribe to the show if you're not already subscribed and you can leave a review over on the itunes, machine or Apple podcast. They rename that stuff all the time. Or send me an email, especially if you're hitting a point where you're kind of plateaued or hit a kind of a sticking point in your business and you're trying to figure something out. And if you'd like a little bit of insight or a second opinion on it, I am happy to take a look. But I can't do that unless you shoot me an email to Brad at baconwrappedbusiness. Com. But make sure you do subscribe, because I got some really cool episodes coming out, and I cannot wait to share them with you. But for everybody else, Darren, thank you for joining me on the show, and I'll see you guys on the next episodal.