How Entrepreneurs Define & Find Happiness with R. Michael Anderson

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Hey there. Welcome back to Bacon Wrap Business. I am Brad Costanzo, as the jingle just told you. And I'm excited to talk to you today about a topic I guarantee no matter what business you're in is on your mind. It's on all of our minds. Today we're going to divert a little bit from the business tactics and strategies and we're going to talk about your life a little bit and happiness. A very nebulous term, happiness means different things to different people. I know that the term happiness for myself has actually changed the meaning and the definition. If you had asked me when I was in my twenties what I thought happiness meant and in my thirties what happiness meant and now in my forties what I think happiness means, I would have probably given you a separate answer for each individual one. But I know this is a hot topic and that's why today I've brought on an expert in this field, especially when it comes to happiness for executives, entrepreneurs and other high performers. And let's be honest, there is a difference between.

Executives, entrepreneurs, high performers and the way they view happiness and the things they strive for versus the average, ordinary, everyday person who's just kind of going through their day trying to make ends meet. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But I know for a fact, having been in both places and surrounded myself with both types of people, I get an amazing, I get a different perspective about how big the difference is and how vast the gap is oftentimes between what an entrepreneur or an executive will define for themselves as happiness and what other people will. So that's why I've asked Barb Michael Anderson, we'll call him Michael for short, to join me on the call today. Michael is a very sought after speaker and expert in this area. Best selling author. He's founded three successful international software companies. He's played pro basketball and lived in six different countries. The guy fits the profile of the executive, the entrepreneur, the high performer. And though he found a lot of success in his life, by most measures he found he wasn't happy. He had a divorce, a nasty lawsuit, drugs and alcohol brought him to a low point and he Made a vow to change through earning a master's degree in something called spiritual psychology, which we'll get into, and committing to a path of personal transformation. He did just that. And now Michael specializes in helping entrepreneurs and executives live happier lives. After all, what is success without happiness? Michael, are you with me, buddy?

Absolutely. And thanks for that good intro, giving us a lot of momentum coming into this.

Well, I hope so. I mean, I know this is a topic a lot of folks minds, and it is mine too. Every single day I wake up and sometimes motivated and sometimes I'm really excited about all the things that are going on in my life. And sometimes I feel the crushing weight of obligations, stress, activities, responsibilities, always thinking about my business, can't leave it alone. That's the negative side about being an entrepreneur. I'll be honest with you, I kind of miss leaving the job mentally at least at 5:00 every night. And Friday is not thinking about it until Monday. But like most entrepreneurs, think about it all day long and that can really put you into a tailspin of stress if you let it. I think I've done a pretty good job. I consider myself a pretty happy person. But I want to jump into this and I want to talk to you about happiness.

And what it really means, because I mentioned this in the beginning of the podcast, that it's a very nebulous term. To some people, happiness means contentment. Some it just means satisfaction. Others it means excitement. Some people can't be happy unless they're achieving more and more and more. At least they think so.

In all of your.

Studies on this speeches, everything, working with other folks like yourself, before we get into anything else, your background, how do you define happiness?

Well, that's a great, great question. And that's one of the things they talk about with happiness is the best technical definition is a general sense of well being. And I guess that will pass for a good technical definition. And I've not found a great way to wordsmith this, but my definition of happiness, Brad, is the gap.

Is how small the gap is between where we are and where we need to be, where we perceive we need to be.

And what I mean by that is, look, if I say I need to make this amount of money to be happy, then there's a gap between where I am now and where I perceive I need to be now. There's a difference between where I think that I need to be and where I want to be. So there's a difference between need and preference. So if I say, hey, I'm Making X amount of money per year now, for example, and I'm in acceptance of that, but I want to make more, then I can be happy now. But if I say I need to make X amount of money to be happy, then there's no way for me to have happiness right here in the present moment.

That makes a lot of sense. So you consider yourself happy. Are you in that place.

Again?

Let's talk definitions. That would be a great way to start out.

Yes. I love it, man. I'm a big guy. I can take it.

Happiness isn't a light switch. So you're not happy or you're not happy? To me, it's, what degree are you happy? And what degree are you happy today? And, you know, I talk to people and we got to watch the black and white. You know, are we successful? Are we not successful? Are we happy? Are we not happy? Is my relationship with my partner good or not good? Am I a good boss or not good boss? You're both. At all the time, you know, it's not, AM I good CEO? Maybe I'm an 80% good CEO. And when it comes to making changes in your life, because that's what I really help people do is make positive changes in their lives. We don't want to go from 0 to 100 because that's impossible and it's daunting. We want to go, I say 3% better. So if you say, you know, I want to have a better relationship with my business partner, so instead of saying, I want to transform my whole relationship with my business partner, why don't tomorrow you just try to make your relationship with your partner, business partner, 3% better.

I like that. And then, let me guess, the next day, try to make it 3% better tomorrow, too?

And the next day, yes, because it's very easy. I can do that. One extra statement, Listen to them, give them a little more attention, say one more compliment, that's easy to do. It's really hard for me to change the whole way I take that relationship into my life.

Yeah, I think that's really profound. And a lot of folks try to make. And myself, when I say a lot of folks, I mean me, have tried to make that leap, that transformation from, you know, from point A to point B. And it's like trying to jump, you know, up Mount Everest. You know, you're in base camp, you don't jump up it. You go from base camp to base camp, you. You acclimate. You go up a little bit at a time. And I see that as you know, as well, I mean, with myself and others, it's like, well, okay, here's what. I can't pay the bills. In order to be happy, I need to win the lottery so I can drive a Ferrari. And you know, as opposed to I can't pay the bills, my next goal is to pay my bills when it comes to that. And like you just said, make yourself 3%, you know, 3% better on a daily basis in all the various areas of life. It's something that most people can do and it doesn't seem so out of reach.

Exactly. Because, you know, when we study the brain and when we have a goal and the goal is very audacious and you and I and the people listening, you know, we're go for it people, but we have to be careful what we set ourselves up for. And I know before we talked, you know, before we were talking, I have a book called the Experiment out. And the book is about. Is a business fable. So it's a story and it's about a business owner making changes in his life. And in this case, the business owner is separated from his spouse. They're going through marital problems. He has. He's living an unfit life and he's going through relationship problems at work. There's problems at work.

Sounds like a lot of people I know. Yeah.

It's funny, people ask me, so is that a story of me? I'm like, well, it's just me and everybody else, right.

And the way he actually meets a coach through a chance meeting and he goes through a couple of coaching sessions and it's business life coaching.

And one of the things, it's called the experiment because what the coach tells them to do is when you want to make a change in your life, call it an experiment. And the reason that's so effective is by if I want to make a change in my life, instead of worrying about going into over analysis, really worrying if it's going to be the perfect decision or not. If I can just experiment with different things, it really takes the pressure off being right or not, and it allows me to move into action much quicker.

That's great. I can all. I mean, I'm kind of picturing that myself. And I, and I see like the minute I say I'm gonna, I'm gonna experiment with this, it makes it almost fun. Like I could almost see, like I've got a lot of changes I'm trying to make in my life. What we all, we all do, we always will.

I mean, just from what you said, that's profound enough. I will absolutely.

Use that because that's. It can make that transformation in the way you think. And that's sometimes all you need to take the next step and the next step. And you're always like, ah, it's just an experiment.

Yeah.

I want to know more about the book. So the book, I gotta say, haven't read it yet, but I have it on Amazon right here. I'm about to push purchase the minute we get off the phone. So I wish I could say that to my audience. I've been through the book and I went through it. However, I will say that the reviews on Amazon are amazing. It seems as though you've really touched the hearts and minds of a lot of your readers. But tell me more about the book. So is it a fable? Is it a. It's kind of a story or I guess maybe fable is the wrong word, but maybe that's what we're going for here. So it's not. And I love learning by story. So tell me a little bit more about that story.

Yeah, you're exactly right. And you know, I'm happy to give everybody. I think that's a great. Thanks for having me on so that I can summarize it for everybody. Hopefully they can get value out of this and if it's right for them, they can purchase. Is a fable. As a business person, everybody in the world has given me books. I have so many books to read and there's a lot of these good books. There are a couple hundred pages and I get some good stuff out of it. But the first quarter of them is good and then it just drags on.

I wrote this as a story format and it moves fast because I know my target market. People like me and you, we assimilate information very quickly.

You know, it's 150 pages, but to be honest, I spaced and a half it, so it should be less. But, you know, it's fun going through these short chapters and, you know, it really talks to me. Brad. Personal transformation is moving from being externally motivated to internally motivated.

So we look at what gives us joy and happiness and when we can, we can, we can pull that in and stop worrying, stop being so attached and affected by what happens outside of us. We come into life much more, much stronger and we take ownership of our life instead of life dragging us around.

That makes a lot of sense.

Yes. And that's what this story is about. It's about how to show up more authentically, how to manage and reduce and eliminate stress. How to bring work, life, balance in, how to create a life for yourself that's calmer and you can make better, stronger decisions, decisions and how to. How to be, to communicate with people in relationships. So there's a lot in this little book based on my experience, because I've had a lot of highs and lows in my life and the people I work with, all based on the spiritual psychology.

Well, that's. I mean, I've definitely read some of your background and having been in those lows, I mean, like you said, problems with drugs and alcohol, problems with going through divorce, all that other stuff where it feels like your world is collapsing down around you, you. You're somebody who's kind of been to the depths and found their way back. And it sounds like you're trying to share that with others so that if they find themselves in that position, they can help themselves climb up. And I think that's great because, you know, in this world we never learn. I mean, there is no class in school, there's no course in college or high school that talks about how to be happy. What is the one thing every single person out there strives for? We don't all strive to be in the same job or a career, but we all strive, we all that human instinct to be happy. But I also think it's a big problem that most people don't know what happiness is. Sometimes people don't know happiness. You know, they're happy and they don't even realize it. Or they could be with a simple flick of a switch. But I also think that one of the problems.

That folks face is, you know, I've always heard that the number one key to happiness is like gratitude or living in the moment. That's one of the easiest things that people can do is just be aware of what they've got, thankful for what they've got, and not constantly be focusing on what they don't have at the same time. And I've had conversations with this, with other people, whether they've been coaching students or they've been clients or they've just been friends. And they always have a hard time balancing out just being happy in the present and yet maintaining that desire or that ambition to do more. So it's almost like this constant tug of war of, okay, well, do I just be content with what I've got or do I strive to achieve more? I mean, I believe you can do both and I believe you should do both, but I don't believe a lot of people have those tools. The Mental tools necessary to do that. Do you care to share any insight on that?

I'm glad you brought this up, Brad. And you're a very bold person and you hit it right on the head. Because I talk to people and we're entrepreneurs. We've created great, great things in our lives, yet we judge ourselves and we set these unrealistic expectations. And I work with people that have created 10 million, 100 million dollar companies and they're like, man, but I didn't do this right. And I didn't do this right. And I said, look, there are exercises and I'll share some of the exercises in a couple minutes that you can be happy and proud, proud of yourself and in a good positive mode and achieve actually more. And they say, and they have fear, they have concern that by putting themselves in this positive mindset that they're going to lose their quote, unquote edge. Right?

Yeah, I can see that. Yeah.

Yes. And I know why we have this fear because I'm a competitor and sometimes, and I'll be honest, it still happens, I got to check myself to make sure I'm not competing to beat other people instead of competing to elevate myself and others around me. Right?

Yeah.

And what actually happens is when we are in this positive state of mind, we're much more open to things that happen around us. Because when we are in that fear or we're trying to beat other people, we don't see other opportunities. When we are in this positive state of mind, we have much, much more energy, we have much deeper relationships, we're more vulnerable, and we're more authentic. That means people follow us more, people like us more. We form tight connections with people which massively help us out in business and in our personal lives. There's been studies done that people.

That are in a positive, optimistic mindset are four times more creative, 300% more, more engaged. So we're starting to study this, Brad. And I hear the concern about losing their edge. I can tell you story after story and bring up study after study that that's not true. So people have to release that to step into this new mindset.

Yeah, I definitely think so. This kind of brings me back years ago, maybe about four or five years ago, I went to a personal development seminar and it was great. And I was listening to all these people who had achieved so much more than myself. It was so inspir, you know, some, I guess one kind of difference between a lot of people out there and it took me a while to do this is that some people, when they see other super achievers, they feel bad about themselves. Like, oh, I don't have that, so I'm a loser. But you know, myself at least I just get inspired. I'm like, you know, that's great. If they can do it, maybe I can do it too. I think that I wanted to share that with others. That number one, if you take that attitude, it'll stop making you compare yourself to what you don't have and start make you thinking about what you could have. And I know that one of the things that has kind of been a guiding, not a mantra, but something in my life has been the concept of uncomfortable happiness. And I was even thinking, if I ever write a book on this subject, maybe that's what it would be called, uncomfortable happiness. Because all my life I had constantly been striving. And this is why I said the definition of happiness, depending on what age I was or where I was in my life changed. But all my life I thought, okay, if I can only get to that place where I'm comfortable, where I'm not worrying about money and I'm not worrying about finding love and I'm not worrying about xyz, if I'm just comfortable, I'm striving for that. And I think most people are striving for just that lack of worry and comfort. And then I achieved that, made good.

Money.

Had a great relationship, friends and family, and I was pretty comfortable. But I wasn't happy or I wasn't considering myself happy. And I started to realize that, wait a minute, maybe it's not. Maybe I shouldn't have happiness as comfort, but maybe I should get out of my comfort zone. If I'm striving for more, if I'm uncomfortably happy getting out, knowing, putting myself to the test, knowing that I can experiment with my life, and knowing that I can, to use your word, there. And if I can kind of get out there and not take it so personally, but get out of my comfort zone and achieve, maybe if I redefine happiness as that, or at least redefine the, I guess, the signs of happiness, man, if I'm uncomfortable, if I'm out of my comfort zone, it means I'm pushing myself, perhaps that'll make me happy. And it actually, you know, funny enough, it has. I've jumped out of my comfort zone. I found myself a little more excited about life, a little more happy. And it's just one insight I wanted to share with you with the audience that, you know, made a big difference with me. And that's why I was so excited to talk to you, just an expert on this topic, because we usually just talk about business stuff, but, yeah. So the idea of uncomfortable happiness was profound for me.

Well, that's awesome. And again, this is fun doing this with you, Brad, because this is great stuff to talk about and share because again, all of us go through this. It's not often that we get a chance to talk through this and find out why it happens and how we can best optimize our life.

Through psychology. I. Well, if you go to executivejoy.com speaking and you watch that, it tells you why we. It tells you the psychological reasons why we don't. There's a demo video of me when I public speak, I talk about the psychological reasons why some of this happens. But you're exactly right. As it's a little bit of a long story, I figured, let's pop on. But you're exactly right, because a couple different things come to my head. You know, we're creators. You know, as entrepreneurs and executives, we're competitors, we're creators. There's not going to be this point where we reach a certain amount of money and stop.

Because what gives you enjoyment is creating. And, yeah, money is a bit of a scoreboard and it makes comfortable, but at the end of the day, I would do what I do even if I didn't get paid for it or I was independently wealthy. And a lot of us would, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. Because it's touching people. It's the internal joy that we get. And another thing, Brad, what you exactly hit on the head is we want to change our definition of winning. And this is what I talk about, too. Change our definition of winning from doing things perfectly. Because a lot of us get caught in this analysis paralysis, because we don't even start anything until we do it perfectly. And we want to change our definition of success, of trying and experimenting. So if you want to put out a podcast, if you want to do a podcast, instead of waiting till you're going to do the perfect podcast and never, ever getting started, just do a podcast, have it be okay, and figure out what you did wrong, and then just move to the next one.

I didn't know you were following my podcast process so closely. That's exactly what I did. You know, one of my mentors, Mitch Axelrod, I don't know if he created this, but I think I've heard it many times. And he always pounded it into my head, which was, you know, imperfect action, you know, beats perfect inaction. Every time, just take the imperfect action. Trump's perfect inaction. That's so true. I've been guilty of that until I just decided, screw it, I'm gonna jump right on in.

I love the experiment and try. You know, there's a. There's another adage I live my life by, and it comes from my years studying neuro linguistic programming, or nlp. And one of the presuppositions, the foundational principles of NLP being that there is no such thing as failure, only feedback. So, okay, yeah, it externalizes the result.

I internalize the effort. Like you say, go from being externally motivated and internally motivated, but don't let the external results affect who you are internally. So whenever I. If the podcast were to fail, I would not have said I'm a failure. I would say, well, guess what? That podcast failed probably because I forgot to do X, Y, or Z. So if I ever do this again or if I want to improve it, I just do X, Y, and Z. And it's amazing how that keeps you from taking stuff so personal and getting into that depressive vortex of negativity.

Yeah, absolutely. And I'll tell you what. I can learn more by doing a podcast than I can by reading about it.

Guarantee it every single time. So now, Michael, you spend a lot of your time.

Who you typically work with. Are you working with? Well, I've got, I guess, a couple levels of this question. Number one, is it people who are.

You know, kind of really in that depressed state where they really know they have a problem, or are you working with people who, I would imagine by the time they actually seek help, they've got a problem, they come to you because they need out of that vortex, or are you working with somebody other than that?

When I speak to groups, I have a couple different things I speak on. One is.

I talk a lot about overcoming fear and procrastination and really playing big in your life. So, you know, getting over. Companies that are going through a lot of change sometimes bring me in to really beef up their creativity and their imagination and their organizations. Second thing I talk about is happiness and the psychology of happiness. But when I work with people one on one, which I don't often, and then the third thing I speak about, which it's a little bit unique, is I really talk about bringing spirituality into the everyday life.

Okay.

And that. And that's in the life of a business person as well as into a business.

Okay.

And it's. When I talk about spirituality, I'm not religious at all, has no Specific religion. It is. It is the. When I say spirituality, it's everything I look at in my life, I look at through a lens of love and compassion and okay, that's great. That's easier said than done. Sometimes it's true and it's really just. But when you can do it and when you. And again, it's not a switch. Do I do it or not? As I move closer to that, my life is just such a joy to be in. And when I apply that to relationships, I apply that to my work life. Because a lot of us get maybe this message, whether it is our spiritual learnings, whether it is what we inherently know. And sometimes we do it at home, but not at work, or sometimes we do it if we go to a church or, you know, a temple or a synagogue or wherever, but we don't do it at home. So it's really taking our beliefs and our authenticity and seeing how we can show up in every. I heard a definition of living to your potential as making the highest level decision you can at any point in your life. And when I say highest level, that's for the greatest good. And I thought that. I think that's really beautiful.

I really think it is as well, greatest. I've heard it also phrase like highest and best for all for the longest haul. Yes, I kind of like that. Okay, so we've got the. One of the action steps for people to take away is start to any change they want to make. Sort of view it as an experiment as opposed to transformative life change makes it a lot easier. Do you have any other quick, kind of quick takeaways that whoever's listening to this could say, I'm going to go try that as well?

I do, I do. Because.

You know, we talked. People have said a gratitude journal, which. A gratitude journal is good. And what that is, at the end of the day, you write down what all the things you're happy for. And the psychological reason that works is because our brains are so tuned in to finding the negative, we're retraining our brain to find the positive in things. So it's nice when things sound cool and they're backed up by psychology. That's the type of thing I like.

I can't tell you how many times my gratitude journal has helped me.

Yes, yes. So I've extended the gratitude journal because I found that at the end of my workday, sometimes I would come back and I would just be exhausted and I would think, oh, my gosh, I didn't even get anything done. Today and I worked my butt off. I worked 12 hour day and I can't even feel like I did anything. So again, besides the gratitude journal, it's also great at the end of the day to write down what all the good decisions that I made in the day. And this is good for getting. This is sort of your impact. So this is what you call your impact journal. And this will get you over a lot of stress and anxiety because we have so much capability, we do so many good things by. But we don't focus on the good things that we did, like the intelligence decisions that we made. The great hire, handling this customer, that once we realize how much power we have, we can have less stress and anxiety because we can take more risk because we know we can handle it. So you talked about nlp. A lot of it's about retraining the brain. So this is retraining the brain to realize the power each one of us has into it.

Oh, that's great.

Yes. And the third level, and this is in the book. The great thing about the book is it has chapters and at the end there's exercises you can also download. So you can do a lot of this at home. And the third thing is where did life, I say, smile upon us? So where did we have good fortune? Because I believe that the world is a giving place. And sometimes we think the world is working against us. But if we realize that all the places that we have good fortune and good luck, we realize that the world actually works for us, not against us. So again, it's another retraining.

Nice. Nice. That's amazing. Now, do you cover a lot of this in the experiment? In the book, do you go over some of these concepts?

I do all that stuff we talked about. In fact, if you get the book, you can actually download templates for that. And it explains it in more detail why each one of those are important and give some examples in there.

Beautiful. So it's interactive?

Interactive for sure.

More than just a book. It's a multimedia experiment experience, I guess.

Exactly. So remind me where they. Where they get the book.

What is the URL again? I don't have it right in front of me.

Sure, sure. And the book is Experiment today dot com. So that's Experiment today dot com. And my corporate site is executivejoy dot com. That's executivejoy dot com.

That's great. So if you are a. And I say you to the listener. So if you are working for a company or working or you own a company and you have team members or you have, you know, whether it's big or medium or small, you are available to book for corporate events, speeches, etc. Is that correct?

Yes, absolutely. I enjoy, I know I do. Culture of accountability, helping companies bring in more accountability into their organization, more ownership. I work with management teams. I do board retreat. So, yeah, I'm happy to talk to anybody that wants to just send me a quick inquiry.

That's great. So whether they want to read your book full of actionable items that they can learn from. And I love the fact that it's done in a story format because I think that's really the best way to integrate and learn things. Or they want to book you, you got a lot of options. And they can Once more experiment today.com you can get the book and you can go to executivejoy.com for your more. For your general homepage and more corporate side of you. So is there anything, Michael, that you're working on right now? It's kind of like, you know, what is your biggest challenge right now? I understand that one of the biggest things or goals is probably to get your message across and inspire more people. But is there anything else in business or life or whatever that you're kind of challenged on that perhaps. Perhaps it's something that you've been stuck with. Maybe I can help you with.

Well, I'll just be. I'll be very authentic and vulnerable. So I love talking about the spirituality. And I've just been working up, and I'll be very honest, I'm working up the courage to start doing this and teaching this to business people because it's, you know, I perceive it's a little bit of a risky thing. I don't want to, you know, and again, I don't talk about the religion, but some people have really deeply held beliefs. And so I'm, you know, it's my favorite thing to talk about. I really understand it well and I work with people one on one. So it's just bringing it to groups. That's sort of my next big. That's my next project. That.

Yeah, that's the answer.

Excellent. Well, you know, some of the best tactics I've seen with that, honestly, has been. And I don't know if you've really.

You've explored this too much, but going to associations, industry associations and kind of the nonprofit, sometimes it's hard to get into the company, but it's often been easier for myself, my clients, et cetera, to go through the industry associations and help provide, be the featured content expert in that area. Because they're always looking for ways to add value to their membership and to grow their membership base. Sometimes it's fee based, sometimes it's not, but obviously, and I'm going to be preaching to the choir here, you may have done a lot of this, but it's oftentimes a great way to get that anointed or endorsed as an expert because, okay, you were featured by the XYZ Association. Well, okay, you must be great. And it's one of those ins that few people really understand or go for it because they end up just going for the elephants. They go for the big corporate gigs where it's a lot harder to go from a cold.

Call, for lack of a better word, to kind of an end.

But if that's great feedback because I think that coming in and I appreciate that because I think coming into with a message like this, it's maybe not right for a company, but it may be right for an association because it's less. It's a different dynamic.

Exactly. And also, whenever you're speaking with a company, I've done a decent amount of this as well as my clients. But whenever you're speaking to a company and pitching them on the whys of why they should be working with you and helping to provide your content, your intellectual property, et cetera, to their people is always focusing on the taking a focus off of really what you teach and what your clients get out of it and just focusing on how it makes them more productive, how it really impacts their bottom line. And I've seen when I started talking to companies about that and using it as a profit improvement tool, it's amazing how their ears perk up as opposed to saying, your people will love you for this and it will make them happier, et cetera. Especially if you've ever talked to any companies or people who can quant their results with, you know, after making these changes, I got X and Y, Z much more productive. But we, the whole team, experienced a dramatic turnaround, et cetera. But I find it so often, especially with content and experts, that they get so.

Passionate about what they teach. They assume that the company who's supposed to be sponsoring them in a way cares about it too. And at the end of the day, they really care about how do I make my people more productive or more happy so that I can make more money or so that I can have better retention, less turnover, et cetera. So I have no idea if that is anything you are currently doing or not, but it's just one of the little Insights, especially when it comes to that area that I've seen make a dramatic effect.

Yeah, I really appreciate that. And in fact, to me that almost is serving them because as a communicator, I want to make the information as easily assimilated by them as I can. And that's meeting them on their own turf, not being ego based and thinking from my point of view, I want to put.

My customer hat on or my prospect hat on, really delivering them the information that they can best take in. I agree.

I think that's fantastic. Well, Michael, I really appreciate your time today. I think this has been a very useful conversation for every single person to have and I would love to talk to you for hours about this, but I really think for the listener's benefit, the single best thing you can do is go to experiment today.com, buy Michael's book, grab it, read it. 150 pages, like you said, double spaced. You'll get through it quickly. And if you're like most of my readers and myself probably read quick and like Michael said, dissimilar information quickly. And I can't think of much better information to put into your brain. I mean, it's like it's a diet. You know, the food you put in, you put in crap, you're going to look like crap. You put in good stuff in your brain. I mean, we all need that mental diet to kind of balance out the, the daily stresses. And I can't think of anybody better to help guide people along this journey than yourself. You've already proven that you've got a ton of value and that I had not heard that concept before is just treat the changes you want to make like an experiment. And the minute you told me hit me like an epiphany. I was like, oh yeah, that's no brainer. Doing that immediately, I can absolutely see how effective it is. So if your stuff is full of that, I'm going to be digesting it, you know, in depth. I encourage everybody, every other listener to. So executivejoy.com go ahead. Do you want to interject?

Well, that's actually the only good nugget. So I just gave everybody the only good nugget. So that was it. That's all.

Yeah, your work is done here. But no, that's amazing. Michael, I really appreciate you taking time to, to be on the show today. I know my listeners are going to love, love your stuff and I encourage you guys, you know, buy the book. Let Michael now reach out to him. If there's any ways that he can help you, your company. I guarantee there's, you know, we're going to have the contact information here in the show notes and everywhere else. And if you have any other questions about anything we talked about. You want to find out more of my insights of Michael's? Shoot an email over to me, my personal email, ask Bradbank and wrapped business.com I read every sing, I read all your reviews on itunes and I love it when you, especially when you share this on social media, friends, family, whatever, tag myself, make friends with Michael on Facebook or Twitter and I'll put your links up here on your social media links on the website as well. Reach out to us. Share it, tag it, share your favorite insight from this and let us know. Authors and experts and personalities like Michael and myself, we thrive on letting others letting us know that we've made some kind of an impact on their lives. Something simple you can do, I know, goes a long way, does it not, Michael?

Absolutely. That's the one thing. The more feedback you give us, the better we can make all our future stuff and the better everybody else knows if it's right for them as well.

So it serves everybody absolutely well. Michael, thank you very much for being on the call. Everybody else, thanks for listening. Can't wait for the next episode. Look forward to it. And you know, until then, just keep on focusing on what makes you happy to find it, experiment with it and you know, worst case scenario, if you got a problem, wrap it in bacon. All right, guys, until next time. Thanks a lot, Michael. I appreciate it.

Sa.