How to Generate Client Leads Using Advanced Facebook Ads with Adrienne Richardson

How do you make business problems disappear? Wrap em in bacon for business owners, marketing execs and anyone trying to grow your business. Pump your profits and make more while doing less. Welcome to Bacon Wrapped Business with Brad Costanzo. Sizzling hot business advice guaranteed to make you fat profits. Every week our chefs will serve you proven recipes for ramping up your revenue. Now here's your host, Brad Costanzo.

Alright, and welcome back to the show. If you are the least bit new to the show, I welcome you and I welcome you back. If you've been a longtime listener and if you are new and I want to let you know that like if you stumbled across this because you found it on social media or something and you're wondering where else you can hear this, you can always subscribe to the show on itunes. If you're not listening on itunes, click that little subscribe button or, or you can jump on my newsletter@baconwrappedbusiness.com and I will email you a new episode all the time, including some bonuses that only my newsletter subscribers get. But that being said, let's get into the meat of today's episode. So as a lot of you know and as a lot of the feedback that I get, one of the biggest opportunities that is out there in the world of advertising and marketing and one of the most powerful advertising platforms on the planet is ever known is Facebook. And I've covered Facebook advertising on a few episodes in the past, you know, what's working now, etc. But this is such a big topic and it's such a, there's such a diverse way of attacking this beast that I invited an amazing Facebook advertising expert on here, Adrienne Richardson, and she's going to share some of the lead gen secrets that she's been doing with some of her clients. In fact, she has been working with some of the past guests of the Bacon Wrap business show, Russ Ruffino, Kelly Fiedel and you know, who knows, maybe a handful of others, we'll get into that. But this is her area of expertise is working with consultants and experts and coaches and people who sell intangibles. Their advice and they are building their authority in the marketplace which I guarantee is a lot of the listeners of this show. Her specialty is helping her clients become Internet famous and bring in real world profits through very high converting Facebook ads. Her clients get more sales calls with qualified leads, registrants to their webinars and and buyers for their products and this results in millions of dollars of new revenue. She has seen it all. She's done it all. And she is the go to strategist for businesses that want to add more commas and zeros to their profits. And by listening to this show and applying what you learned today, then you may just have that effect as well. I know that I'm going to be taking copious amounts of notes and trying to put into action what Adrian tells us. So let's see if she's on the line. Adrienne, are you there?

I'm here.

Perfect. Thank you very much for joining us. This is going to be fun.

Yeah, I'm excited to be here and thank you for having me.

Yeah. You know what's funny? As I mentioned, you run the advertising for Russ Ruffino, who was a previous guest on the show, and he was really talking all about how to build a very nice and large coaching and consulting business, High ticket consulting. And it is right now the third most popular episode on bacon write business already. So we hit a hot. We hit a hot button.

Yeah.

That's why I was saying I know there's a lot of people out there and I've gotten a lot of feedback on that and questions. And in particularly, one of my friends had reached out and he was talking about that because he's, he's talked to Russ and he's kind of doing this a little bit of the same stuff, and he's trying to reverse engineer that. And he was. And I told him I was going to be interviewing you and he was really excited. He's like, oh, this is cool. I can't wait to hear because I'm trying to crack this nut. And I know that targeting who to target was one of his questions. And really understanding some of the nuances of creating Facebook ads that convert, especially for coaches and consultants, I want to dive into that. But before I do that, tell me a little bit about kind of how your journey to this point.

Sure. Well, my degree is in public relations and I started out working at an advertising agency in Philadelphia with like, NASCAR and Subaru. Palmer's Chocolate were some of my clients. And when I decided to start a family, I got laid off. And, you know, I was upset for a little while, but then I had an idea to start a parenting magazine. So my first business, I used to own a print magazine that was for parents in South Jersey. And I ran that for about four years and then I sold it. Took a little bit of time off with my family and then decided to start my own marketing agency. So about three years ago, I did that in my first year of business. I worked with anybody who would pay me if they needed. Email marketing, web copy, web design, press releases, Anything and everything that people would pay me to do, I would take them on.

About halfway through the year, I started to really realize that I was underpriced and that I was also doing a lot of things I hated doing. I was really intrigued by Facebook ads. I kept learning more and more about that. And I started to cancel certain services that I was offering. And by the end of my first year, I had eliminated every single service in my business except for Facebook ads. And since then, for the last two years, I've focused solely on that. That's the only service I offer. And that's what got me to today.

That's really smart. Have you read the book Built to Sell by John Warrilow?

I have not.

It's a great book and it has more to do. I mean, it's a. It's a semi fictional account. I mean, it's a. You know, he's using this story as an analogy of a guy who owns a web design company or web services, and he starts off doing absolutely everything and then he realizes that by specializing and in essence, productizing his service. And in some areas that's easier to do than others. Not only did he make so much more money, but he actually built a systemized business that was easier to sell down the road as opposed to doing. Like what you said in the beginning, I'm a little bit of everything to everybody. I need money.

Yeah.

So.

Well, my, my income grew by 4,000% when I switched and specialized. Yeah.

Yeah. It's amazing what can happen when you specialize, you know, and it's hard. And I know it's been hard for me in the past with some of the consulting clients, relationships I've had. Is when you feel like you have a lot of things you can do and that you're good at specializing, it's almost like trying to pick your favorite child. Right. Get rid of the other ones. I'm only gonna keep this one. But. But it ends up being so much better. Because when you do get known for something, that's what gets your foot in the door. And it's that tip of the spear that makes everything else easier. Because I'm sure that once you get a client, there is, there is. Although you don't necessarily do those things. There's a lot of things you can give them advice on and help with in other parts of their business, right?

Yeah, definitely. And that's probably what has added tremendously to this making me a good Facebook ads person is because I don't just specialize in clicking, you know, I don't just know how to click the buttons and set it up. I've got tons of background experience in the marketing, the advertising space. So it really just kind of adds value to what I'm already doing.

Yeah, that's beautiful. So let's dive in to the fun stuff. And because everybody knows what Facebook advertising is and they're either using it themselves or gearing up to. And if they're not, go back to listen to some other shows or go Google Facebook advertising because this is where we do the sizzling hot business advice. So I really do. I want to dive on in because this is a. This is a good topic and it's a timely one. So let's talk about what is especially around coaches and consultants and people who are selling their services for high ticket. And it's that kind of the model being. And I'll let you extrapolate on this, but the model being.

A Facebook ad to either content or a webinar or something to get somebody to watch a presentation and then enroll in a process that's the really simplified version. There's different ways you can skin this cat. But.

Tell me what's working from.

A standpoint of really generating these leads that convert. Because I do notice that things change all the time with, you know, it's a very fluid market. So this is. This is always going to be a good topic for us.

Well, I want to point out two things specifically about the ad. I mean, there's so many different ways we could take this conversation, but specifically about the ad, two things that really, over the probably the last six months, I've been doing a lot of testing with. And one of them is copy and one of them is the images. And I probably spend about $250,000 a month on Facebook ads between all my clients together. And that's growing every month. So I do a lot of testing and what I have found as far as when you're setting up the ads, you want your ad to not look like an ad.

Right.

You want it to look like something you would have posted to your page anyways. Because just like TV commercials and radio commercials, like, we've become so numb to marketing, like the consumers are so savvy in that way that we just kind of tune it out. And if you're not careful with your. And that can happen on Facebook as well. People, if they know it's an ad, they tend to ignore It.

Yeah, we get banner blindness.

Exactly. Yep. And so the important thing is to make your ad stand out, but not because it looks like an ad, but because it looks like something really intriguing. And with images, I found that if you do not use any copy on your images whatsoever, that they will actually get a better result, better response. Because if you think about it, if you went on your Facebook page right now and you wrote something and then you added a picture to it, it would not have any text on it. You know, it would have just been something natural, like, oh, hey, guys, I was at this conference the other day and I'm. You know, it's so exciting, blah, blah, blah. And you share, like a picture of you with a bunch of people at the table. There's no text on that image. So images that have text on them typically scream add.

Yep. You know, it's. I want to interrupt here for a second because it's so funny that you say that. I was at a mastermind about a year ago, and there was another Facebook guy there. And this is one of the things he said back then. And this is when everybody was doing, you know, I mean, everybody still is putting. They have to put text on their images. And he was saying, I tested this. It works better for the same reasons, but in the past year. And I remembered that you're the only the second person who said that. And I think that's because you guys really are out there testing things and doing. I mean, because the only way you figure that out is when you test it. And it's funny because I have Facebook open right now for this. I wanted to see what some of the most recent ads. And there is one I'm seeing right now, and it's got a company called Fix youx Funnel, who I actually software I use. But they've got a big picture of a tsunami. And there's no text on the ad or anything else underneath it. It says simple for step guide, but it makes me want to click on it because it looks like a news story or something like crazy. It doesn't look like a direct response ad.

Right? Yeah. And so pictures really bright and colorful. And they don't always have to have something to have to do exactly with who you are, what you sell. So, for instance, with Russ Rufino's ads, he. Yes, he's selling a program to teach people how to sell high ticket coaching. But what is that high ticket coaching? What is that program gonna do for them? It's gonna make them money. Well, what will that money do for Them, it will allow them to spend time with their family or go on vacation. And so I will test images that reflect what they want their life to look like. And so we'll do pictures of families on a yacht. We'll do pictures of families skiing together or playing.

You know the result.

Yeah, Right. So we will use an ad image has no text on it, but it reflects. And we'll test positive and negative. Not necessarily with Russ, but with a lot of my clients, depending on what their offer is, we'll test a picture of what they want their life to look like. The result they're looking for, what this. If they had the solution, what they could have in life. And then for some clients, depending on what they're selling, if they're selling something that helps, like, people get out of overwhelm or become less stressed, will test some images where it's the situation they're in right now. So, like, let's say we were promoting something that helps stress out moms. Have, like, a picture of a mom whose, like, house is a mess and she's falling apart, and she looks like she hasn't showered in a couple days.

Yeah.

Like, because that person is like, oh, my God, that's me. You know, like. And then we'll test an image of this positive, like, a mom that just looks really relaxed and she's enjoying her family and everything looks great. And we'll test those two images to see. See which one does better.

And so I want to encourage people to leave the text off your image. It right away screams ad. And a lot of people are still doing it because they see other people doing it. And when it comes to Facebook ads, a lot of people just copy what other people are doing, and they have no idea if those people are actually getting good results or not.

And so I encourage you to use pictures without text that are bright and colorful and test both the positive and the negative.

Yeah, I love that. Now, would you suggest. Because the first thing that comes to my mind of, okay, well, how do I get some ideas for these images? The first thing I would probably do is maybe go to some of these other sites if it's in my. If it has anything to do with my. My market. Right. Like, so I can't even think of one in general. But, you know, maybe it's. I don't know. Let's just say it's Business Insider or. Or something else like that, like a Forbes. If I'm doing business, I might go to their Facebook page and just see what articles they're Posting on their wall and see what's kind of popular. Like, okay, well, what are the. What are the photos being shared in the articles that they share?

Right.

Like, that's one of the things that I would. I might go to for inspiration. You can tell me now, Brad. That's stupid. But that's, you know, you can definitely.

Use your competitors for inspiration or people that are in the same market as you, but just be careful to not assume that it's working for them.

True.

So definitely test your own stuff as well. Things that work really well are either pictures of, again, your audience and what their life looks like. Abstract images do really well. And even cartoons. I've done a lot of cartoon images with clients and they work really well. And then for some people, and I've heard both sides of this, some people say, use a picture of yourself in your ad and other people say, don't. And the bottom line is if you have great. If you're a personal brand, if you're your own brand, you're a coach and maybe you are the brand and you've got some really great professional looking pictures that are bright and colorful, Test those against kind of maybe a stock image type photo and see how they do. So some people say, well, if you're not, you know, if your face isn't recognizable and you use your face in an image or you use your face in an ad, it's not going to work. But I have plenty of clients who weren't very well known and had amazing pictures and they did very well. So I don't like to just say something works 100% of the time or doesn't.

No, it all depends. Yeah, it all depends. That's one of the other things that a lot of folks kind of miss out on is that it might work for one person. But then I tried the exact same thing, except that my sales copy is different. I might. My sales copy might not be as strong as somebody else or the creative or somebody might not like my face versus Russ. And that makes it not work. So this is all. It's as much of an art as it is a science.

Yeah, we have a running joke with Russ because every time we've ever used a picture of him in an ad, it does terrible. So we're always like, oh, man.

He's like, oh, we should use a picture of my wife. His wife's like this beautiful blonde woman. And he's like, we should use a picture of my wife in the ads instead of see how they do compared to him.

Yeah, you Know, it's. That is the thing, too. It is. I've also heard it. Marketing is nothing but guessing and testing.

Yep. Yep.

That's how it kind of ends up being the.

I've.

By the way, I've noticed because I know that Russ runs ad. Like, I get Russ's ads. And I have taken notice about a. They do change a lot, which is really good because I don't get banner blindness. I'll see a different photo or a picture. And I've paid a lot of attention to kind of what he's doing. One of the other things I've noticed is that you guys are doing is it seems as though there's more copy inside the ad, like in the text part, as opposed to just like a one little liner. So what is your take there on more copy versus less copy in the ad area?

Well, I could tell you six to 12 months ago, I would have told I was teaching people and with my clients that I was doing their ads. I was telling them that the. The copy that goes above the image that people read, it needs to be short enough that they don't have to click see more. You know what I'm saying? So that it shows the rest of it. Because people won't do that. They're in a rush. They don't want to read this long post. And so you need to keep it short and sweet, and they don't need to click to see more. That's what I used to tell people. But then I had a client one day write this really long post and say, I want to use this as an ad. And I was like, oh, my goodness, this is going to do terrible. And I was like, okay, we can test it. Like, I really just felt like I was just kind of telling her, okay, but I knew it was gonna fail. And I tested it, and it worked brilliantly. You know, she kind of. It was longer copy, and she kind of told a little mini story, and it worked so well. And so from that day forward, every time I would set up an ad for a client, I would do short copy that didn't need to read click more, you know, see more. And it just was like, kind of just straight into the point. And then I started testing, and then I would do a longer version where I had this really strong question or statement that grabbed people's attention and then took them from this point A, like, how their life sucks right now, to point B of, like, where that what they wish they had. And then like, hey, I'm going to share the secrets on how to do this. So click here to either opt in for this freebie or register for this webinar. And I so I tested it. Every single client I would, I was working with, I would test short copy and long copy. And right now I'd say about 75% of the time the long copy wins. Even on mobile? Even on mobile. But the key is that you've got to have that first three or four lines of text needs to be really strong so that people will keep reading. If it's crap, people aren't going to read it whether it's short or long.

So give me an example of that. Like, okay, so in a, like, say I wanted to run to a coaching program. You know what might those first, those first lines be? Like, like is it a real direct, like attention blankety, blankety blank or is it more story based headline grabbers? Does it.

I'm going to give you two different examples. Let me pull them up and I'll read them to you. So I'll give you two different examples. One is a longer copy that Russ Rufino is running. I wrote this copy for his ad. And of course everybody who's listening, you never want to copy. You want to learn from it and model and make it your own.

Exactly.

But let me just pull this up real quick and read it to you. So this ad has been working really, really well for us. And so I'll read this one to you and then I'll read one from another client that has kind of a different long copy that's working really well. So it says, over the last few years my team and I have worked with more than 250 coaches who are were charging too little for their services and not getting anywhere near the number of leads they need to have. They needed to have to get the income they so badly wanted. So right there we're like, you know, it's that problem agitate solve type of copywriting where you like state the problem and then you keep agitating it a little bit and then you tell them that you have the solution.

Yeah, you're reflecting back because if I'm reading that and it's, and it resonates with me, then you got me.

Right. And so then we go on to say once they learned why low prices were actually hurting their business and client results and learned how to to start commanding $3,000 plus for their work, their whole world changed. And then the third paragraph says watch this free webinar while I'll share our proven four step system for putting all of your client attraction on 100% autopilot. So you will never have to hunt for clients again.

I love it.

So we took them from kind of like what they wish they had and kind of then like, oh, I learned I could do this and now I have everything I want. So that is like three paragraphs of copy, which typically I would only use. Like, in the past, I would only use like one paragraph. And then let me give you one other example because this is a completely different style. So this is my client. Her name is Emily Williams, and her business is called I heart my life. And I've been working with Emily since she was making like $400 a month. And now she is generated almost a million dollars last year in her business. And so let me read you really quick. One of her ads that we've used that works.

And she was actually the first client that I had that wanted to use long copy that I was like, okay, we'll try it. And it just worked very, very well. And so let me just grab this. She says, I'm Emily Williams, the founder of I Heart my life and success coach for extraordinary female entrepreneurs. I always say I'm just a girl from Ohio with really big dreams. Sometimes I wonder how I got here, how was I able to move to London, meet the man of my dreams, and create a business of my dreams. For a long time, that sort of success wasn't my reality. I spent years in a quarter life crisis trying to figure out what I was meant to do with my life and how to finally be happy. And so she continues to go on talking about how she was in debt and she really wanted to change her life. And then she discovered, you know, this, this way, this way that helped grow her business. And then she's sharing with them in her videos how she was able to do this, you know, how she was able to go from debt and not end her job to having her own business and living this dream life she's always wanted. So it's really long. It's actually like, I don't know, 10 paragraphs.

I love the human interest side of that, the story, the struggle, because that's one of the things that a lot of folks gravitate to is the stories, especially of rags to riches, of, you know, the hero's journey. And it's a. It's a tremendous way to get somebody's attention, especially when they're on somewhere like Facebook, which is social. They're reading about stories anyway, so I like tapping into that, that emotion. So one of them Is the first one is more direct response based, here's the problem, agitated solution. And then the other one is, yeah, let's come along on my journey. Because it could be like you.

Yep, she does a really good job. So the beginning part is she talks about how her life used to be and the people she's marketing to, that's where they're at in their life there where she was. And then she shows them how she made this change and what it did for her and talks about how her life is now, which is what those people, her potential clients, wish they had. And then she says, I have the solution for you. I'm going to show you exactly how I did it. And so she tells this really personal story and she's very honest and she talks about credit card debt and how, you know, she was like, you know, just like her first month in business, she made like $400 and very personal. It's very open and that's her style. And she's her own personal brand. And so people relate to it and they. I mean, she has the best. Out of every single client I have, she has the best conversion rate between the ads and the landing pages. Her landing pages are great as well. Nice because of the personal side of it and the storytelling. And I mean, her. We get phenomenal results from her ads.

I love that and I love storytelling. It's a. It's a very big.

Passion of mine in marketing. It's one of the things that when I've done with some of my clients, we've had some of the most success with. Speaking of that, there's a.

What about using videos? I mean, video ads are obviously very prevalent on Facebook, etc. Although people aren't using the ads as much as they are static ads. I've noticed. Have you had any success Failure there? Noticed anything in particular?

From the testing that I've done with video ads, what I found is they're really good for engagement. So if you want people liking and commenting and sharing and just trying to get a message out there, video ads work brilliantly for that. But they, so far, and I hate to ever say anything is 100%, but all of the testing I've done with them, every time, they suck for conversions.

Yeah.

So they're really good for engagement. If you just want to get people, you know, seeing what you're all about and just want to talk to your audience and. But they convert like crap. People just, they tend to watch the first 10 to 20 seconds. They're like, that was cool. And they move on, they don't take action.

Right. You know, one of the guys who runs the ads for my clients has done some tests recently and he noticed the exact same thing, but with one other thing that he noticed. He said static ad versus a video ad. He said the static ad got a lot more click through, like a much higher click through rate, much higher leads. And it did get sales. But on the video ad it got a much lower click through rate, much lower leads. But the, I guess the conversion rate was higher on the, of the people who went over and finally said, okay fine, I'll go over and check this out. Once I got to the sales page, they bought more, but the amount collected was more with the static ad, if that makes sense. Right. So it's, it's kind of like, okay, they work a little bit here. I guess they do a good job of making the person feel like they know like and trust you if it's a good video. And then by the time they, those, they take the step and they go, okay, fine, I'll go see what you've got. Maybe you've already kind of convinced them, but yeah, I've played around with them myself and noticed the same thing. Yeah, great cheap video views, but the number of people who are clicking through are just really low.

Yeah. And that's what I want to encourage people. If they're going to test video ads, you've got to watch your stats all the way from the click on the ad to the sale. You know, a lot of people just look at the, the front end of their funnel and make a decision on whether the ads are working or not. And so they'll get excited, oh, I'm getting video clicks for a penny, you know, and they think like, oh this ads doing great. But then it's like, did it result in any sales? Because that's really all that matters. I gladly pay a dollar a click versus a penny a click if it's going to result in more sales for me.

Right.

So if people want to test them again, I love, you know, testing things. And I don't want to say video ads are never going to convert, but if you're testing them, make sure you've got things set up so that you can track that data all the way through the funnel and you know for sure what your return on investment is. You know, so I spent this much, I made this much. And then you could test the static ad, the image and you know, again, follow that all the way through the funnel because in the end it doesn't really matter what you paid per lead. It matters what your return on investment was. That's all that matters. You know, people are so obsessed with the wrong numbers when it comes to ads. In the end, if you made more than you spent, you won.

Exactly. And I've also heard people using video ads more for retargeting purposes. So once they've kind of been to your site, then you do a little more human interest, quick little video, because now it makes them feel like they like you a little bit more, realizing that they're not going to have as big of an roi. But then it becomes kind of a. More of a branding play.

Yeah, that's a good idea, too. I like that.

See, learn something else. I like to be of value too, and not just the one who's picking your brain.

What about. Let's jump over to some of the, Some of the targeting, because targeting is really, you know, there's a lot of things that goes into making a campaign work. Right. Do you feel. I've always felt like targeting is the number one thing because there's the most variables. There's infinite amount of variables that you can do. And it's. For me, it's always been the most frustrating because I've never had the patience to just sit down and chunk, chunk through it and be scientifically optimizing it.

What's your process or best recommendation when it comes to people trying to figure out just the right target?

So first of all, targeting is the number one most important thing when it comes to your ad, and it's the easiest. And it's the number one thing that most people screw up. So it's super important. And everybody does a terrible job. Not everybody, but most people, at least in the beginning when they're first starting out. The important thing to remember about targeting is to be as specific as possible. And so let me give you an example.

I had a client I was talking to the other day and he wants to reach IT consultants. So he put in the interest, targeting IT consultant as an interest. And you would think like, oh, great idea. It's very specific. But the problem, the problem is whatever you put in your interest, targeting anybody, anybody at all who's interacted with any piece of content related to that topic on the Internet will be targeted.

Yeah. That's always driven me crazy.

Yes. So if I was looking for an IT consultant, I'm going to see your ad, even though I'm not an IT consultant, but I've engaged with a piece of content or did a search or whatever. That had to do with IT consultants. And so that's where a lot of people mess up, is they don't realize that. So my Facebook rep told me this, and this was very enlightening. And I actually only found this out a couple months ago. And I was like, wow, I can't believe that. I don't think most people know this. When you put something in the interest targeting that anybody who has interacted with anything related to that topic in the last 28 days on the Internet, on Facebook, they're going to be shown that ad. And so, like, if I like something about marketing and I share it to my personal page, you know, my grandma's there and my mom and that girl I went to high school with, and all these people, and if they're like, oh, that looks cool, and they just happen to click on it, even though they're not even a business owner, but maybe it just looked intriguing.

Yeah.

Now they're gonna see the ad. And you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. So you get a lot of ads.

Having to do with that content.

Yeah, you get a lot of unrelevant. That's in. That's interesting. I've also heard that there's a difference between the interest with a capital letter versus a lowercase letter. Like if it's IT consultant or little it, you know, especially to do it when it has to do with brands or something else. Like, let's just use Starbucks if there's a big Starbucks. This is just what I've heard. I have no validation on this. But then sometimes you'll see the word Starbucks with lowercase s and that the lowercase I've heard is more exact targeting. And the big case is more.

Have you heard anything about this?

I don't know about that per se. What I can tell you is, so there may be Starbucks in there three or four times, because there's lots of different pages out there about Starbucks. There might be. And so typically, how you'll know the one that is actually the real Starbucks page is it has the biggest audience size out of all of them that are listed there.

That's a good point. Yeah.

And so, yes, that could be more a broader targeting, but really they're all related to Starbucks. So it's not necessarily like picking the smaller one isn't necessarily going to be better because it's still Starbucks, but it just doesn't happen to be their main page. And so for if you wanted to reach IT consultants, the better thing to do would be to put IT consultant as the Job title. So rather than as an interest, you can target by job title. So you would target it consultants. So anybody on Facebook who has put their job title as IT consult.

Gotcha.

That is super specific. Versus putting it in as a general interest.

Okay, that makes. Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. And you're gonna get a lot less, obviously, but those less people. Yeah, exactly.

So for. And another big mistake people make is let's say that they're a coach and they're like, oh, man, everybody loves Tony Robbins. All my clients follow Tony Robbins. I follow Tony Robbins. I'm going to target Tony Robbins in my ads. Yeah, well, do you know. And you don't. But neither do I. But let's just think about it. The percentage of people who follow Tony Robbins that are actually business owners is probably 1 to 2%. And of those 1 to 2%, how many of them are coaches? So you're showing your ad to majority of people who are following Tony Robbins that are like realtors or there's someone who went to like their. His empowerment thing or like, so Tony Robbins is super broad. And so it would be a bad audience to target if you're trying to reach. If you're a coach or consultant trying to get clients.

Okay, that makes sense.

Yeah. So you want to think about targeting the problem, not the person. So like, if you're like, oh, I want to reach women in this age group or blah, blah, blah, and you know what? A lot of them love Oprah, so I'm going to target Oprah. Well, again, the problem is not every woman who follows Oprah is interested in what you're selling. And so the better thing to do would be to think of a competitor or an author or a really known big time expert who has the exact audience you want. So they sell what you're trying to sell. So they sell the solution to that problem. All your potential clients have target them because you know that everybody following them has that problem because that's why they're following them.

Right.

Versus targeting Oprah because you want to reach women.

I love it. Yeah. And that's one of the little things that I've kind of picked up on as well. When I started to play around with this, noticing that, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of authors out there who you can actually target. And you know, when you go to the audience insights and like, shit, I didn't even think they were that big. But you can target them. And if they just wrote a book on, you know, how to you know, I don't know, get something about it. You can target that. People who like them too. And those are probably it. Like, what books are they reading? Who are those authors, what maybe what products are they buying? Go to Amazon, see the hottest selling products that maybe your market would buy and see if you can target that brand.

Yes, yes. So that's what I do. I'll search Amazon for like, top books. Like, let's say one of my clients is a sales expert and they teach people how to sell. So number one, I'm already going to start targeting people who already teach that. Like Lisa Sasevich. She teaches people how to sell, how to sell. So I'm going to be targeting people like that already. But then I'll go on Amazon and I'll search like top authors on selling. And then you're going to look and see, you know, they have the ratings of how many reviews it's gotten or how many downloads it's gotten, like the ones that are ranking the highest. And then I try to target those authors on Facebook. I'll also do a Google search. So I'll do like top sales experts in whatever industry it is. And there's always tons. You know, people write blogs about this all the time. So there's, you know, Forbes and Inc. And all other people will write articles. So then I'll go to that page, I'll see, like, who they said the top people are, and then I'll try to target them on Facebook. And not everybody is targetable. If their following is too small, then you won't be able to target them. And so I always tell my clients, like, do your research, make a list. Like, as long as you possibly can. Get like 50 to 100, whether it's authors, experts, competitors, you know, are there certain magazines that those people read? Are there certain trade shows that they attend? Are there professional organizations they belong to and make a super long list and then go into Facebook and see how many of them you could target.

That's beautiful. Now, when it comes, this is a much more tactical question, but when you come down to saying, all right, we're going to start to build this, you know, this ad out. I'm a coach. I'm going to start to build this out. I'm going to target people who, like, like you just said, Lisa Sassovich. Right. And I know I'm going to narrow it down by my. Maybe my gender, maybe my age, country, etc. But then when it comes to the interest targeting, specifically, do you start one ad with one interest or do you start to layer them and make them more complex? Like three or four interests in one ad, or is it kind of all over the road? Because that's one of the things that I know in my mastermind, people have been challenged with. I know it's when I sit down, there's so many options. Do you keep it super simple and individual so you can see what that interest is doing before you start to layer on things?

So this is. That's a very controversial topic.

Yeah, that's why I bring it up.

Controversial. But there are lots of different opinions on it.

Right.

And I'll share with you what my opinion is and why that's my opinion.

Cool.

So I do not put one interest in each ad set I layer multiple on until I have an audience size of half a million to a million. Okay. I found that's what the sweet spot digital marketer run by Ryan Dice. That's the exact same model they do as well. They make campaigns that have an ad set size of half a million to a million. They've done way more testing than I have in the multiple millions of dollars. But even all the testing I've done, I have found that the larger audiences work better. And here's why. So there's a couple reasons. When your audience size is super small, you can only spend a very small amount of money to test to run to that audience, because let's say the audience size was like 7,000 people. You're never really going to be able to spend more than $15 a day on that audience because otherwise Facebook will just. There is such a thing as spending more than you need to, and Facebook isn't going to tell you, oh, you don't need to spend that much. They're going to take your money and they're just going to charge you more per click. And so you can overspend for the audience size and especially for those people who are going to want to scale and build up. You need to have a really nice, solid size audience if you want to spend any kind of considerable money. And so, number one, I found that an audience size of half a million to a million works great. You can pretty much spend anywhere. I've found that my max per campaign, you know, per ad set that has that audience size is around $100 a day. If I want to spend more than $100 a day, then I set up another ad set that has half a million to a million. So, for instance, I have a client that spends $3,000 a day. We've got like 60 ad sets or so set up. And the reason, so the second reason that I don't target by, you know, people will say, well, how do I know then if it's Tony Robbins or Oprah that's getting the conversions? You know, just to keep it simple, if I've got them grouped together. Well, you don't need to know because, and this is something that my Facebook rep told me was that over time as your ad is running, the audiences that are getting the most conversions, Facebook pushes your ad out to those audiences more. And the ones that aren't getting conversions, they pretty much just stop even serving it too.

That is amazing, isn't it?

Yes. They do it for you. So you don't need to separate them out and put like $5 a day towards each one. And you've got all these interests set up. Facebook does the work for you. So you put all the interests together and over time they're going to algorithm is going to continue to optimize that ad for people who are converting. And if nobody's converting from Oprah, they're not going to continue to show your ad to her. So, yes, you don't technically know, hey, are these conversions coming from Tony or Oprah? But in the end, who cares?

You don't technically. Yeah, you don't technically need to know. They'll do it. Good. So what's beautiful about that is it reduces the amount of crazy complexity work. It's like, okay, if I think that all of these like 10 interests are applicable to my audience, I'm going to put them all in there, assuming that I can keep the like the half a million to a million size audience. And then I'm going to.

Let Facebook determine which are the best because I don't have to worry about.

That. That's good. I love that. I love keeping things simple.

Here's one thing I do tweak and a lot of people will do this too. So they'll break it up by age. They'll be like, oh, I'm Gonna put in one AD set, 20 to 30 year olds and the other one 40 to 50 year olds. And so in the beginning I put them all together. If I. My ideal client is between the age of 28 and 50. Okay, so I put 28 to 50 year olds in every single ad set. And then after I've been running it for a couple weeks, there's a button in Facebook that says breakdown. And then you can break it down by age and you can see what age got you the conversions. And if you find that, oh, wow, 90% of my conversions came from people that are between the ages of 30 and 40. Well, then guess what?

You go start a new one there.

Yes. You then make your ad specific to the 30 to 40. But to try to do that up front is really unnecessary because you're limiting again, you're limiting the audience size. And Facebook's gonna go out and do all that work for you. So. So rather than you assuming that, like, oh, 25 year olds wouldn't convert for me or 65 year olds wouldn't convert for me, I have so many clients that come to me that either say, oh, men never buy from me, or women never buy from me, so they don't want to run ads to that audience. I always tell them, let's just run it to both. And we'll let Facebook, we'll let your audience tell us who converts and who doesn't. If we find. Because you can break it down by gender. So if we find that all your conversions are coming from men, well, then fine, we'll take women out of the targeting.

Yeah.

But let's not just assume that from the beginning. Let's let the data. I always say the data doesn't lie. Let the, you know, let the data tell you. Let your audience tell you what they're responding to and what they like rather than you trying to decide it for them.

I love that. Yeah. And that actually is music to my ears because it is one of the things that keeps me from getting in here and playing with my ads myself more often, because it's just. I'm too addicted to think about, okay, I'm gonna. I've got 10 different interests that I want to target, and I've got to create 10 different campaigns and ad sets and all this and then watch them like a hawk. I mean, that's why, you know, people pay you money.

And then you're like, oh, this is just too much work.

Yeah, exactly. The. When it comes to targeting people primarily, you don't have to give away any super secret sauce unless you want to. But when it comes to targeting, like, you know, small business owners, people who take consulting and coaching, and we'll just say small business owners. Have you noticed that.

You know, certain things are working better? Whether it's targeting, you know, like business authors or people who say they are a small, like the job title or anything like that, like any of the other.

I guess a better way to phrase this is that Facebook allows you to do a lot of different types of targeting, from behavioral targeting to Job targeting, demographic and income and whatnot. And some of that is accurate, and some of it's not perfectly accurate. It kind of depends on what people report on, but it also is accurate because it ties into big data. Do you go deep on things like buyer behavior and whatnot in those interests?

Sometimes I do, but I always put it in a separate campaign. So I won't mix together. I won't mix like interests and job titles and behaviors all in one ad set.

Even with the whole exclusion targeting. Now, the flex targeting, that we can do.

Well, yes. So I will to a degree. So for instance. But I only. I like to chart. I like to test them separately. So for instance, I might have. I'll do. In the interest, I'll do something more broad like digital marketing, people who are interested in digital marketing. And then I'll put. And then I'll put only. I'm trying to think of what the word is. Oh, it says narrow audience. So then you narrow the audience and it says. And they have to match this. So maybe digital marketing and small business owner or. And they're an IT consultant. So IT consultants that are interested in digital marketing. So when you choose that narrow audience. So let me just explain to people this. When you put like five different interests in the interest area, it's an or situation. So they have to follow Tony Robbins or Oprah or whatever. They don't have to follow all five pages. But when you put those interests and then you click the narrow audience, and then let's say you put CEO, the job title of CEO. Well, now they have it's an and situation. So they have to follow Tony Robbins and be a CEO or follow Oprah and be a CEO. And so whenever I'm doing an and situation, I like to separate them. So if one of my ands is a is by job title, but then one of my other ands, my narrowing the audience could be by.

How they spend. Because, like, you can target people that, like, spend above. Above average spenders. So I'll do that separate. So I'll be like, oh, I want to target people who follow Tony Robbins and they're above average spenders.

Yeah.

So I'll separate those. I won't put that they're a CEO and an above average spender all in the same one. Does that make sense?

Totally. Yeah. You exclude. Yeah, you narrow it down.

Yep. So when I'm testing the different narrowing. The narrowing of audiences, I do keep them separate until I know the answer. And then I'm like, oh, this worked better. And then I could always test other behaviors later. But what you need to know about the behaviors, and forgive me if people listening already know this, but I think a lot of people don't, is, is that most of that data Facebook has bought from a third party. So when it says you can target people by income, Facebook has no idea. You don't put in Facebook, hey, I make $100,000 a year. They don't know that. So they have bought that data from other companies that gather that kind of information about people. Facebook buys it from them and then they try to match it to people's Facebook profiles. And they've only matched a small percentage of that data to people's Facebook profiles. So if you're like, oh, I want to target people who make $100,000 a year or more, I hate targeting by income because it's completely unreliable. Number one, Facebook doesn't know how much everybody makes, so you're leaving out a huge portion of your audience that does make six figures, but Facebook just doesn't know it.

Yep.

And number two, people's income changes all the time. They lose jobs, they retire, whatever, you know, whatever. And so that data, some of that behavior, targeting, it's okay to test it, but just know that, number one, you're going to pay more for it because Facebook isn't eating that cost. They're passing it on to the advertiser. So you're going to pay more per click. And sometimes it's really not very reliable. So if you're going to use that and test it, just be very aware of that.

I love that and I'm glad you said that because I've tried that in the past and had really like blase results going. This is not like this should work and it's not working.

I've never gotten good results from targeting by income. And believe me, I have clients, I mean, Russ Rufino, other clients who, what they sell is a high ticket item. It's not cheap and the average everyday person can't afford it. Not be able to afford it. But every time we do no targeting by income whatsoever because every time we've tested it, we've gotten terrible results.

Oh, that's good to know. You just saved people a bunch of money. Not on their car insurance.

Target by income whatsoever.

Yeah. Okay, excellent. So then when it comes to finding those small business owners, what, what are you seeing works like job titles and professions as well as kind of the interests and whether it's publications or other gurus who teach business, is that kind of.

Yeah, it really depends on the industry. If you're talking about coaches and consultants, the majority of targeting I do is interest targeting.

Okay.

I don't target by job title because listen, entrepreneurs have so many different job titles.

Yeah, exactly.

They'll put self employed or they won't put anything. I can't tell you how many people like request to join residential, this free Facebook group. And nowhere on their personal profile does it say that they own a business. Nowhere.

I don't think mine does.

Yeah. So if you're trying to target people by job title or you know, entrepreneur this and that, like not everybody has that their job title even listed. So we do a lot of interest targeting. I rarely use job title. I only use that with like some people where that works really well with people who are trying to reach more like consultants that work with corporations and they're trying to reach them. They're very much B2B where they're like a professional. You know, we tie it, we say coaches and consultants together. But really true consultants, they're like way different than a coach. They're two completely different things. And so job titles works well when you really are trying to reach people in the corporate world.

But for the general entrepreneur who's trying to reach who's a coach that is trying to reach their audience on Facebook, we don't typically do any type of job title targeting. It's all interest targeting.

Well, that's really good to know. And it's. Yeah. And I think it's. It saves a lot of the frustration of thinking, okay, this is one of the ways I can find them. But I guess at the end of the day, if you're, if you go, you dial in your interests and then you dial in your ad copy and it resonates with that market. You don't have to be a super laser on some of this. If you've got everything else working right. If you're a terrible ad copywriter, hire that done or get better at targeting. But otherwise I think one helps offset the other. Right. That's good.

It does. One of the things is you can actually target people who are Facebook page page admins. So guess what? Most people who are an admin of a business Facebook page, they potentially have a business. Right. So if you're trying to reach business owners, one of the behaviors you can put. So you put kind of some interest targeting and then you can put as the narrowing of the audience that they have to be a Facebook page admin.

Okay, you just schooled me on this is brand spanking new hadn't even heard anything about this splain. Lucy, where do you find this Facebook admin page admin? Is it an interest?

Yep. You literally just type it in.

I'm going there right now.

Yep. So in the interests, you just start typing Facebook Page admins, and then over to the side, it'll say behavior or something like that so you know that it's a behavior, not an interest. And so I'll do some more. I'll do general broader targeting, the interest area. Then click narrow audience and put Facebook Page admin. Because here's the thing. So not every business owner in the world has a Facebook page. But for me, what, what I do and what for a lot of us do, if we're helping them do anything that has to do with online marketing, if they don't have a Facebook Page, they're not really our ideal client.

Yeah.

And again, in 2016, if you're a business and you don't have a Facebook Page, it's like back in the day, if you had a business and you weren't in the yellow pages, if you had a business, you were in the yellow pages or you were dumb.

So bingo. Yeah, you're right.

In 2016, if you're a business owner and you don't have a Facebook Page.

You'Re gonna have a business.

You don't have a business. I hate to say that that sounds so terrible. I hope people realize I'm being sarcastic. But the truth is, you don't have a business, so why would you want to work with people who don't have a Facebook Page? If you work with people who are business owners, they are in the Stone Age. Unless that's what you help people do, then that's fine. But I really love narrowing my audience by putting Facebook Page admins. Now, not every person who owns a Facebook Page is a business owner, because you could have a business page and you're like, you run like a mommy group, you know?

Yeah.

But that's why you put that interest targeting in there.

Well, exactly. So I just went there while you were talking and I did that. Yeah, I just went to Facebook Page admins. It says there are. Now it does say there are 238 million people that are Facebook Page admins. Yeah.

Right.

So that's a lot you need.

Yep. That's why you've got to still do interest targeting. Don't just go in there and go, hey, I'm going to show my ad every Facebook Page admin.

Right.

And you've got to use the narrow audience because if you put, let's say you put Tony Robbins and Oprah and all these people in interest and then you put the Facebook page admins in that same detailed targeting box, then it's an or situation. So, hey, they phone, say, follow Tony or they're a Facebook page admin. You've got to put your broader targeting up top, then click the narrow audience and then put the Facebook page admins below that. And that will shrink your audience size tremendously. But it's much more specific.

That is sizzling hot business advice guaranteed to make you fat profits. I love that. No, that's great. That's really cool. I think that's really powerful.

Let me switch kind of thought paths on you for a second. And as opposed to the, as opposed to the coaching, consulting, selling services offer. So I'm going to ask you a selfish question because my wife and I recently launched a new coffee company and we have been just now recently starting the process of building a. And it's not a coffee shop. This is a direct consumer E Com coffee brand. Right. And we've got a great marketing angle and a brand. And by the way, are you a coffee drinker, Adrienne?

Well, I'm a coffee snob. I only drink lattes.

Oh. So I will. Okay. So do you make it at home? Do you make them at home, though?

No, I don't. I go out every morning, I drop my daughter off at school and then I stop at my coffee shop and get me a latte.

Well, I was gonna send you some coffee as a gift, but. So the brand is called Stiletto Coffee and it is.

A great backstory, but it is actually the marketing. It is branded specifically for women. You could say, well, what makes it a female coffee? Nothing really, except for the branding. And my wife's story behind it is Brazilian and self made, came here, kind of an immigrant success story and coffee snob herself. So we've launched this brand called stiletto coffee. Stiletto coffee.com for any of my listeners.

And we are trying to. We're a little disruptive in the market because nobody else is really marketing their coffee towards a demographic, a prospect, a type of. In a psychographic as well. So the problem is this is an E Com product that doesn't necessarily. It's not a feature benefit. It's not like drink this coffee.

Lose £10 unless it gives you the energy to go exercise.

It's a branding play. And the strategy is it's so wide, it's like female coffee drinkers of kind of a certain psychographic and we're playing around with the targeting right now on what might work for this. And one of the strategies that we're employing is going towards some content marketing, towards some articles and content that our demographic and our prospect would probably like.

And.

And then not only retarget them, but introduce them to the coffee once they're on the page.

This is just throwing you under the gun. You had no preparation for this. I didn't tell you about it. But I'm just curious if anything kind of comes to mind about something kind of as challenging as this.

Okay, so I have a couple ideas, but let me just first tell you that I am not an expert in e comm type ads. I basically work with people who have services.

Absolutely. And that's why I prefaced it with that. Yeah.

Yes. So let me just say that first. But I have a couple ideas. So typically when you run cold traffic right to a page where something is for sale and you're not a recognized brand, it's gonna flop.

Yep.

Okay. So people, they just. They don't typically buy like that. It's just not a normal behavior on Facebook for people to click on something. Never heard of it, never seen it, Boom, I buy.

Yep.

And so I would do what's kind of an up and coming. It's been around for a while, but it's really starting to become stronger, which is mixing content and commerce.

Exactly. That's exactly what I was saying. We're sending them to a content piece first. Something about that they might like.

Yes. So I love the story of your wife and where she came from and what she has now and all of those things. So I would really do an ad that talks about her story.

Yeah.

And it gets people wanting to click. They go to the website. On her website, you need to have a retargeting pixel.

Yep.

So you've got a pixel that's on every single page on her website. Doesn't matter what page they go to. It's just. And Facebook will remember them for up to six months. And it's a rolling six months. So it's six months from today. And then tomorrow it's six months from tomorrow for anybody who's come there and take them to the page where they're going to get to read her story and then retarget those people with ads specifically about the product but mentioning the story. Like, remember what's your wife's name?

Kenya.

Kenya. So remember the story about Kenya and how she did X, Y and Z. Or she can put it in first person you know, you know, I told you about this, and I'd love for you to try my coffee. Click here to. For a special discount.

Yeah, exactly. Especially when you're retargeting them. It's like, oh, yeah, by the way, get a. I'm so glad you said that, because this is exactly online with what I'm planning out.

So, yeah, so you're taking them just content. Content content where the purpose of that content is just to pixel the heck out of that audience. Yeah, that's what I do with University of California. They're one of my only client. One of my only clients that's not doing, you know, webinars and this and that. Like, we do 100% content marketing, and they just want to pixel that audience to retarget them later to sell them something. And so in six months, we were able to pixel an audience size of 3 million. And they spend $10 a day on.

Ads through content marketing. That gets viral and they share it and everything else.

They write a new blog every three days. We set up ads to run traffic to that blog. We pixel the heck out of them. And then every few months, they do a webinar just to that pixeled audience to sell them something. And they always make 400, 500% ROI on their ad spend. So that's a longer, more patient style of marketing versus, hey, send someone to a webinar today and tomorrow they're a client. That is one way to do. To do business. But University of California has this longer, bigger model of building relationship. And so they're doing the content marketing. And so you really could do that with her. You're writing really intriguing content. I love the idea of her story. Pixel the heck out of people. Retarget them. Make sure in that retargeting ad, I would actually use a picture of her that was on that page that was about the story. So they would.

I've seen it before. Yeah.

Oh, I've seen that before. I remember her. And then she's reminding them of a little snippet of the story, but then inviting them to do like a. Whether you have like a free trial or a discount, you know, free shipping or whatever, and then take them. So then they click on that ad. It takes them to a page where they can buy. So I would just be pixeling the heck out of people.

Yep.

And then retargeting.

Yeah, I love that. It's complete validation of my overall strategy, which is just in the very beginning, so stages of getting rolled out. But I mean, I hope my Listeners can also understand that this is why, I mean I brought you on the show and to ask you these questions because you do you understand more than just hey, how to. We talked about this earlier, just how to push buttons in Facebook. You understand the marketing ecosystem and kind of from multiple areas. I mean you used to be what was in public relations or. Yep, yep. So one of the things I really like about the way you approach this is you come to it with a much broader sense. It doesn't sound like you just read a book on Facebook advertising and decided to be a Facebook advertising expert, which is rampant in this world.

It is, it is.

Yeah, I read a book. Now pay me to give you advice on stuff. That's awesome. So what is a.

Oh, one more question because before I kind of segue.

But you.

We were mentioning retargeting and it's really one of the most powerful things in all of advertising ever since the invention of retargeting. Have you found or do you have any data that the majority, let's just say if you're coaching, consulting clients, etc. That the majority of the money comes from the initial ad or that it comes from retargeting efforts.

The majority of the budget goes into the initial ad.

But what about the revenue?

Spend a lot of money to pixel those people and then you don't need as much money to retarget them. It's always cheaper to retarget people because the audience. So the higher your click through rate is on your ad, the lower Facebook charges you. So they want you to put out good content that people are engaged with and the more engaged they are with it, Facebook rewards you by charging you less per click.

Yeah.

So if you've got an audience that you've pixeled, they've already. They know of you, they're a warm audience now and you retarget them, they will always be cheaper to reach and they will always convert higher than that cold traffic. So you don't need. And also it's a much smaller audience, you know, the people you've pixeled versus the traffic you've. Well, I guess that's not very true. So some people like upload their email list. So let's say you upload your email list, it's a small audience. To reach those people is much smaller but still so big budget towards pixeling the people. Then when you're retargeting because it's a more engaged audience that converts better, you don't need to spend as much money to get that to convert. Get Conversions. Does that make sense?

It makes perfect sense. But then are you finding that the majority of the revenue, or maybe maybe you're tracking this, maybe you're not, but that the revenue comes from the ads that were retargeted. So. Meaning they got introduced to the idea up front, but maybe not everybody bought because it's, you know, it's the first.

Date, but it totally depends on the model.

Okay, I got you.

So for instance, like University of California, you know, they're running traffic to Pixel and they're not selling anything for like six months.

Right. So but what about your coaches like.

Russ or Emily, for instance? Like with Russ, we spend a lot of money sending traffic to a webinar and then we will retarget those people who didn't book a call with like a three part video series or a PDF download. So maybe that first piece of content didn't really get them to take action. We do get way more people that convert initially from the initial run them through a webinar. But we don't want to just give up on those people who didn't take action. Right. Then maybe we didn't hit the right pain points or the timing wasn't right or whatever it is, or they didn't even watch the webinar because they were busy. We retarget them with a different type of content and what we found with that is that we usually are able to recapture about 10% of them and the conversions are always way cheaper. So let's say we pay like $50 to get a strategy session booked for through the original funnel. But then when we get a strategy session booked on the retargeting, we'll pay like $12 for it.

Yeah.

So we get, it's cheaper, but it doesn't necessarily, we don't get more people who convert on the retargeting than the initial targeting. But that's because of the way the funnel is built.

Okay. And then are you getting really.

Ninja with like, so the people who, you know, they, when you're retargeting that you're sending them that. I'm getting tongue tied now so that if somebody comes and just views but doesn't register, they get one ad like back to the webinar. But if they register and don't buy or attend and don't buy, they get another ad and if they, you know, etc. Have you been, have you been diving into that?

We actually don't do things that complicated.

I love that you said that, by the way.

Yeah.

Because that just means you can make a lot of money without overthinking it.

We. Yeah, I mean, there's nothing wrong with doing that. So people who are doing that. Wonderful. But we. One great thing I've learned from. I've learned a lot of great things from Russ, but one of the great, greatest things that's had the biggest impact on me is he's all about keeping things simple.

Yeah.

And there's a lot of things we do that people tell us to do that really aren't necessary in order to make money. And, you know, he's making 200, $300,000 a month. And we don't do any of that complicated stuff. I mean, we basically have a pixel on the webinar registration page and we retarget anybody who hit that page but didn't.

Register.

Yeah. Send them back to the webinar, Right.

Yep. Well, we sent them a different piece of content.

Yeah, exactly. Okay, cool.

So that's really the extent of our retargeting. Yes. We could say, hey, you didn't watch, or hey, you watched, but you didn't book a call. We could do all kinds of stuff, but we actually keep it super simple and we don't do any of that. And obviously he does just fine.

Oh, man, I love that. Especially because I have this natural predilection to make stuff complicated as hell. Because it's fun. It's like I'm tinkering, Right. We're tinkering and we get bored and we just want to like, oh, well, what if we did this and this and this and this and then we build it and then it doesn't work. Or if it does work, we have to manage it and then we want to put a gun in our mouth. Like, oh, my God.

Yeah. I just keep things simple. Simple.

Yeah.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

Yeah, I need. I need to get that tattooed on my forearm. Yeah, because you can. Don't do it. That's awesome.

I tell my 9 year old son, just because you think it doesn't mean you have to say it.

Yeah, exactly. So, Adrian, you're. You're. What's a nut you're trying to crack in your business right now? Like, I know you mentioned that you are.

You mentioned offline to me that you're also moving into working with professional services people from attorneys and medical professionals, etcetera, to help them generate leads using a lot of the strategies. Is there any other kind of things that you're trying to do besides maybe you're trying to Grow your business and get more consulting clients. Maybe you're trying to look for human resources or other skills you're trying to learn. This is. This is where we flip the tables and either myself or my audience gets a chance to find out how we can help you.

Yeah, I mean, like you mentioned, I'm trying to kind of break out into other industries. And the reason for that, I love working with coaches and consultants, but I'm the kind of person that once I've mastered a skill, it kind of tends to get a little mundane. I think a lot of entrepreneurs get that way. So coaches and consultants are my bread and butter. But I need something new and exciting and challenging to do in addition. And so I am. I want to work with professional services that need a consistent flow of leads. So whether that's, you know, orthodontists that need people and, you know, just constant flow of new people coming in, I am looking specifically to work with, like, DUI and bankruptcy attorneys because they have a type of service where they need leads all the time, but it's a very easy, replicable type of law that they do. And the paralegal does most of the work. So they aren't like family law. They got to deal with so much. The lawyer is very involved, so that's not as easy for the attorney. Like, they don't. They're not asking me to bring them hundreds of leads a month because they couldn't handle working with that many people that are getting divorced.

Right.

But dui, bankruptcy, you know, again, they can handle hundreds of people at a time. Mold remediation is really good, those types of companies, because when storms hit and so certain areas, you know, people are always looking for leads for that. So I'm trying to break out into the professional services. I'm looking really just to take on a small handful of them because it is a new, you know, kind of arena for me. The ad is the ad, but how you generate the lead is a little different. So I'm looking for people who have an open mind and they want to experiment in that area. You know, they're willing to test and experiment with me. And so anybody who's in that industry who wants to work with me and kind of do some testing on that, that's what I'm looking for. And if they're coaches and consultants and they're looking for done for you, I am still taking on clients in that industry as well, but I'm really trying to kind of go in the other direction.

Nice. Okay, cool. So people can Coaches and consultants can still shove money in your pockets in exchange for you putting more money in there. Right. That's good. That's good to hear. I guarantee that there's some people out there who listening right this minute who may want to do just that. And my listeners, I want to encourage you, I'm going to do this as well, is to put on your thinking cap on. Who do you know? Is there a family member, is a friend, if it's not you, who does have professional services, whether you're an attorney, bankruptcy, dui, other professional services that may want more business and may want to talk to somebody. I'm guessing, Adrienne, that you work nationwide. They don't have to just be in New Jersey, where you're at right now. Right. So.

And anywhere. Anywhere in the world, really.

All right.

I'm working from my home, and I can target anybody on Facebook.

Isn't that beautiful?

Yep.

I love that, man. This has been. We should charge money for this episode. This was so good.

I have to say, this is probably one of the best podcasts as far as information and this and things we've talked about. Like, I've given away, like, crazy, ridiculous stuff today. It's been so awesome sharing that. A lot of people don't pull that out of me. And you did a good job of doing that.

Okay, I am. Hopefully you don't mind. I'm gonna use that as a quote. And that's, you know, the reason I do this show. It's for a couple reasons. One.

I just. I love having conversations with people, you know, that I find really interesting about topics that I find really interesting. And it's a way for me to add value to the market. But I want to give somebody not just another talk show style interview that just kind of goes into the surface level stuff. I want people, we're asking them for their time to plug in their headphones and listen to the show and whatnot. I want them to feel as though they have totally ripped us off. And, like, I shouldn't be getting this stuff for free. And I've actually had people email me and go, I should have paid for that. So I was like, let me find another way for you to give me money. But this is. I'm so glad you said that. That makes me happy. That means I'm doing my job right. And at the end of the day, the folks who have heard this, the big benefit is they get to really understand that you know what the hell you're talking about. You're not faking this.

You'Re not just regurgitating something else. These are time tested. You've got your battle wounds. I'm sure that you know what works, what doesn't. And that's some of the most important things, especially at a time where folks are looking to hire people to get things done for them. The smart entrepreneurs, the ones who aren't just bootstrapping it in their parents basement and finding somebody who really knows what they're doing and who has a proven track record is very important and hard to do. There's a million stories out there. I know I've got them. Of hiring people that just drop the ball or they were all talk in the beginning. So I like to give people that I know who are good time to shine and show that.

They'Ve got these skills. And you've definitely done that. So is there anybody else you're looking to meet? Whether it is professionally, whether it's to get on other podcasts, whether it's a business celebrity or anything like that? Because my or somebody else who's listening may be able to make that intro. And if nobody comes off the top of your head, that's fine. Don't say Oprah.

Yeah, no.

No. I think that I pretty much covered it in what I'm looking for. Cool. Yeah, I think that, you know, your listeners, they can send me people in that area. That would be awesome.

So how would they do that? How do we get a hold of Adrienne?

You can go to my website, which is adrianrichardson.com or you can just email me directly@infodrianrichardson.com and just let me know that either you or someone you know is in that industry, they need to be open to testing. Knowing that this is kind of while, yes, I know Facebook ads inside and out, it's a new area that I'm venturing out into. We'll do some testing together.

And you know, they need to definitely be able to follow up on those leads and convert them to sales.

Awesome. Well, guys, pay attention to that. The website and email information will be in the show notes and you can check it out right there. And I. If you've liked this episode, do me a favor and share it on social media and tag me, maybe even tag Adrian in it and let us know because that's the way the show grows and that's how you kind of pay me, is help give us some exposure on this. Now, if you have any questions of me and you would like to dive into this, if you want to even recommend future guests or yourself. If you've got a topic that you think would be amazing or just a business challenge you'd love to overcome, send me an email. AskBradaconrappedbusiness.com Let me know you're out there. Even if you just send an email to say hey Brad, love the show with Adrian. Learned a lot. Think you're awesome and a handsome devil. Go ahead and send that. You can leave out a lot of that part. Just keep the handsome devil stuff in there but.

Subscribe to the show. Go check out Adrienne. Hire her. If this has resonated with you people making a lot more money than you probably are, that's kind of insulting. I've hired her. That being said, we are going to wrap this up before I stick my foot in my mouth anymore. But Adrian, I really appreciate your time on the show. Thanks for being so open and forthcoming with us.

Absolutely. Thank you for having me. It was great.

Thank you.