How To Use "Flipped Joint Ventures" For Higher Profits with Bob Serling

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Welcome back to Bacon wrap business. I am Brad Costanzo and I'm very excited to have you guys on the show today. This is an interview that I've actually wanted to have since I started this show because I've invited Bob Serling on the call to talk about some really unique stuff that he's doing. For those of you who may or may not know Bob, my experience was with him is that I remember seeing an email about a program, a marketing program that he had released, I want to say seven, eight, maybe even nine years ago. It was a very long time ago and I really liked the way Bob thought and the things that he talked about. And if I remember correctly, it had a lot to do with joint ventures and licensing and just really creative but proven marketing concepts over the years. So he's been somebody that I paid attention to everything he put out when I didn't know him and then when I moved to San Diego and I was lucky enough to come across Bob and work with him and become friends with him. And I've just consider him a treasure trove of just amazing ideas and he's a lot of fun. And recently he just did an amazing report that he, that he sent out called the New Rules of Joint Ventures. And I asked him to be on the show today to share this not only just with me even more, but with you. Because I think we're going to dive into some really unique work ways of doing joint ventures between companies that are very simple and yet they elude most of us. So Bob, welcome to Bacon wrap business. It is a big pleasure to have you on the show.

Hey, Brad, thank you. That was an absolutely wonderful introduction. I appreciate it and I'm glad you admitted that. I haven't been on up to now because my parole officer wouldn't let me be on it. No, I really appreciate that. It was a very, very kind introduction.

Absolute. Well, as I said, I've always liked the way that you approach.

Business, the way you approach business models. I like how you try to keep things as simple as possible without over complicating them. I know that in my own. What do I want to say? I have a tendency to over complicate things and create a lot of moving parts, even though I hate that. And I like simple systems. And that's kind of one of the things I've always liked about your approach to joint ventures and licensing and just all the different marketing strategies that you've brought to the table. So.

I want to talk about joint ventures right now, and I want to talk about how they, you know, I want to talk about the way that most people think about using them and some of the problems because they've been great for me in the past, but they can also be an absolute headache. And some of the things that you've done to really simplify the process but also make it way more effective.

Great. Okay, so let's start out with the problems. And that's a really important place to start.

Let's start off defining joint ventures. For anybody who might not quite have a great grasp on them, let's talk about what those really are.

Okay? So the traditional definition of a joint venture usually means when you have a product and another company has a list and a complementary product, and you approach them and say, hey, why don't we sell my product to your list? Because your people would like what I have and we'll sell your product to my list and we'll split the profits on both deals. That's the conventional and traditional approach to JVs, and that's also the problem with JVs. All the problems that occur with joint ventures occur because of that structure. So, and I just want to touch on what you said. I'm always looking for the sweet spot, the simplest function of anything, whether it's marketing or sales or, you know, even. Even barbecuing chicken. What's the simplest thing you can do that's going to get the best results? So it's kind of like a supercharged 8020 look. So for joint ventures, what happens is whenever one company approaches another and says, let's both sell each other's stuff, there's always a mismatch.

Always.

And usually the mismatch is in list size, right? So one company is going to have a list that's 3,000 and the other company's is 80,000. So there's immediately friction there. Well, why should I sell yours? I've got this huge list also. I don't know you. How do I know that selling something to my list of 80,000 isn't going to cause a nightmare for me? And then there's the issue of who mails first. How do I know I'm going to get paid. So two things happen, there's that mismatch and friction occurs. And also people don't know each other and people always like doing business with somebody they know. And so because of that, most joint ventures never get off the ground. And they're very frustrating. They're time consuming to go. I mean we've just covered that, the problems in 10 seconds. But it actually takes a few weeks to play out. And then you go, gee, I just invested a few weeks of my time and I have nothing to show for it. And after you do that two, three times, you go, well, joint ventures are horrible. I'm not doing them anymore. So the issue becomes how do you remove all of that friction? How do you get rid of all the distrust that's inherent in that conventional process?

I thought about that and I thought about it for a long time and I tried different variations and, and it actually took me two or three years. And when you hear the solution, it's really simple and all good solutions are, but it took me years to figure out what that simple solution was. And so should we get to the.

Solution and for only one payment of $97, you too, my listeners can have that solution.

Can have that solution.

Absolutely. And by the way, everything you're saying has been spot on.

Exactly. But everything you've been saying, first of all on the problems has been spot. My very, very first Internet based business was 100% built on joint venture affiliate traffic because nobody was searching for the product that I had. I had created a very unique niche product. It had a cool hook and angle, but I had to get really creative about going out there and creating joint ventures where I promote other people and they promote me and it's like everybody wants tit for tat. And I actually one of the biggest problems I had when I was very, very first starting out, It's a catch 22. I had a list of maybe like you said, like two or three thousand people and they weren't even all buyers. A lot of them were just opt ins. And I tried to get other people to promote me, but because I didn't have anything really, what can I do for you? A lot of those fell apart. So.

Exactly what you say was one of my very first hurdles as a digital marketing entrepreneur.

Yeah, and when you have that disparity in list size, it gets worse too because you know, if everybody's approaching the whale in their industry, the whale is being approached 100 times a month and they don't even have the time to screen all the various JV offers they get. So you're almost certainly not going to get a deal done. So the solution though, is really simple because there are always two sides to a JV deal. There's the list side and the product side. And what I mean by that, the list side is the company with the list that you're going to sell the other company's product to. But by virtue of the fact that you have a list, you're always a list side if you want to be. So the solution I came up with was forget about reciprocal deals. The real value in any business is making more sales to your own list. Now, at the same time, your customers want a lot of things that you don't necessarily offer. And it would be very expensive for you to develop all those things, but you can get a piece of all those sales, that of things they're going to buy anyway and increase customer loyalty by striking a number of joint venture deals to sell those things to your list of subscribers and customers. So a couple things happen here. First of all, you're eliminating all the friction because now I'm coming to you and I'm saying, brad, my name's Bob and I have this list. It's not huge, but it's pretty responsive. I know you don't know me, but I'd like to sell your course to my list. You want to do that? Very few. I'm not asking you to do anything for me. I'm just asking you to take some free sales. It may not be the most sales you've ever made, but it's all free money to you.

So that happens. All the friction's gone. You get the deal done. What also happens though, is that for your subscribers, your prospects and customers, you're doing them a great service. You're saving them the trouble of having to figure out what is good and what's bad because there are so many different options in any category you can buy things.

From. So you're creating added value for them in two ways. You're bringing them a product or service that they want anyway. And at the same time, you're eliminating them having to search through literally 200, 300,000 results on Google to know what the best whirligig is. You know, if they want to buy a whirly gig, they're not sure which the best one is. You're giving them the value of finding that for them and making it easy for them to buy. And so you're building more sales for your business, more value for them, and a stronger Relationship with them.

Yeah. More trust with the people that you've got their back, that you're there to, you know, you're somebody they should pay attention to. And by the way, what you said.

About approaching people, Let me just promote you first.

That was.

I mean, I guess I credit just my amazing business instincts, but back in the day, and I remember exactly who I did it with. I don't know if you know Dave Miz, but I know his name. Dave Mizracho. Yeah. Anyway, he had a product, and I absolutely realized that, okay, this was somebody I got introduced to. And his business was multiple six figures, maybe even seven figures. But it was great. And I just approached him and I said, listen, you've got a great product. I've got a very small list, but I'd love to promote it.

Where do I find your affiliate link Now? The affiliate link was really easy to find, but I made sure that I reached out to him early to let him know that I proactively just wanted to promote his product. And I mean, it's amazing how much that does for the relationship.

Absolutely.

With somebody. And by the way, it went on to where he was like, yeah, I really like you. You're kind of cool. What do you do for, you know, what is your product anyway? And I showed it to him, like, yeah, here it is. It's pretty cool. It costs this and it's great. By the way, here's a review copy. I gave him a free copy of my product. I said, if you ever think it's going to be, you know, a fit for your list, please let me know. I do have an affiliate program, but it's not necessary. I just really want to promote your stuff to my people. And to this day, 10 years later, we're still, like super close friends, and we've made each other hundreds of thousands of dollars each.

Absolutely. And that was going to be the phase two that I talk about, which is especially. And here's the other thing. What people don't realize is when you offer something to your list, let's say it's Dave Miz's product. Only a certain fraction of your list is ready to buy at that time. Now, a month later, two months later, three months later, a different fraction is ready to buy. Their circumstances have changed. They may have just joined your list. They weren't on it before.

They may have the time to do it now. So now they're going to buy. So if you offer Dave's product a couple times over six months and he sees these sales coming in then if you're ready to approach him and say, hey, Dave, this is your product selling really well to my list. So they obviously have a mutual interest. Now, I know my list isn't as big, but.

I think that your folks would like my product a lot too. What do you think? Now, the truth is, not all those people are going to say yes to that, but let's say 25% of them do. Before, you were getting zero. So now not only are you making all the money that you're making just by selling more to your own list, but now you've brought in 25% of those partners who you couldn't get before. So it does have that snowball cumulative effect exactly the way you described it.

Yeah, absolutely. Now.

Are there any nuances that make this work better or worse than others? Is that. Is it really as simple as, hey, can I promote your stuff?

It really is, and we can get to that in a second. But I think there's one more elephant in the room that we need to deal with, and that is that a lot of people who are new to joint ventures say, well, wait a minute, why do I want to sell somebody else's stuff to my list? Isn't that going to hurt my sales? And it's actually going to do just the opposite of that. It's going to increase your sales and it'll grow your list. And so here's what happens. And I always use an example that I love, which I call the $40,000 TV, which is a painfully real example of when I bought a new big screen TV three or four years ago for a Super bowl party I was having. So I don't know what the TV costs. Let's say it's about $4,000 or whatever it was. So I get the TV. But immediately what happens when you buy any product or service? You start to think, oh, there's some other stuff I could use. So I thought, well, now I need a better way to stream video and stuff to it because I'm using this little fire stick or whatever and it's not good enough. I probably need an Apple tv. So now I need an Apple tv. And now, well, I better get some surround sound speakers. And with that, oh, you know what, this TV's bigger. So I need a bigger cabinet. So I buy a bigger television cabinet, television stand. My wife sees that and goes, oh, that cabinet is light brown. The other one was medium brown. Now we need new furniture and we need to paint a wall and we need this. And all these things kept building up.

And it's even. Well, people are coming over. I got to get a pizza stone so I can make pizza. But by the time we were done with it, it literally cost $40,000. Between all the furniture and the equipment and the painting and all the various things that went with it, that $3,000 $4,000 deal became 40,000. But the point is, it doesn't matter what product or service you sell. Your customers and subscribers want a lot of other things that are related to it, both directly and indirectly. And you can get a share of all those sales by selling other companies products to your customers and helping your customers make that choice. So it's really important to understand that, because.

That thought of, well, why should I sell other people's things to my customers? Causes a lot of people to hesitate and then they miss out on a lot of sales. And the way it builds your list too, just by doing that is indirect. But when you start offering people a number of things that really make their lives better or easier, solve a problem or provide a solution, they start to tell more of their friends and business associates and family about you. And all of a sudden your list starts to grow. Now, I'm not saying you'll go from 300,000 to 50,000 in two months, but you may actually double the size of your list in six months just by selling more things to your customers. And that's before you get to the reciprocals. And then the reciprocals will build your list even more when you get to that phase two. So there are a tremendous number of advantages to this, right?

And what I like about this too is it definitely goes back to the fundamentals of give value first. It's one of the most often quoted lines of success in entrepreneurship, business, etc. But especially in building relationships, which is give value before you ask for something. And creating JVs and affiliates and these relationships is one of the most important and highly leveraged things you can do. And yet it is often one of the most.

You know, some of the biggest errors in judgment happen right here and where somebody just lost it because they come to you asking you, number one, to promote them first. Hey, you'll crush it with this offer. Promote my stuff. And then they get really mad that other people don't promote them. And it just creates a lot of animosity and a lot of people just don't do it. But just like anything where you go back to the fundamentals, this really does. And it's.

It was really refreshing to reread. When I read your report, I go yeah, why do we all make it so damn complicated?

Yeah. Absolutely.

Everything we're talking about comes from that report. And the report's free. And I have a link for the bacon wrapped community, which is my website is Profit Alchemy.

And then if you'll profit alchemy.com bacon you can get that free report. I don't remember that. It's called the New Rules of Joint Ventures. And then there's like it's a 14 point checklist for doing exactly what we're talking about. And there's, there's more nuance and detail and so, and it's free. So I mean we've mentioned it two or three times. Thought I'd just let everybody know where they can grab it for free.

I love it. Well Bob, this has been very enlightening and I'm really happy that you shared this in more detail not only with me, but my listeners. What else are you working on right now that we can help crack a nut in your business? Whether it's a resource you're looking for, a person you're trying to hire or meet, a skill you're trying to learn, just anything that maybe myself or my listeners can jog their ability to add value to you?

Well, you know, I'm just, I'm focused entirely on these joint ventures and I call this technique a flipped joint venture where you flip it away from reciprocals to these one sided deals that make them easy to do. So.

Just tell people where they can get the free report. Tell your friends if you read it and you like it, I just appreciate it if you tell two or three other people so they can learn about it. Most of what I do with joint ventures I work with just a few clients. They're pretty high end clients and I'm not looking for clients. So most of what I do is just a lot of free training. So if you tell people to grab the report, they'll get that and more free training and that'll help me and help others at the same time.

I love it.

Love it.

By the way, one last question on this, on these JVs.

So.

When you are either doing this yourself or working with a client and you're promoting somebody's offer, do you ever do this or suggest that people do this? Where, like if I'm promoting somebody else's product at a discount and I've set up a special deal where I'm collecting the money and then sending the order on to that person, or do you just say just send them the traffic, let them set up the sales page and let them convert it, track it, et cetera. Or do you ever have them say, well, I'll do it on my site?

Yeah, no, that's an excellent question about the mechanics that really, I think, will help people a lot. Personally, I never run the orders through my site because then you got to deal with support. Yeah, I mean, the whole idea is that, yeah, both sides are making money, but yours is 100% profit because you don't do any order taking, you don't do any credit card processing, you don't do any customer service. The company whose product or service you're selling does all of that. So when they write you your check, you had no overhead. Your check is 100% profit. Now what you can do, though, and what I do do is every order cart has affiliate tracking links and a dashboard. And so your partner can always give you access to the dashboard just for your sales. So you'll always know. Exactly. And they can't.

Because.

The big cart manufacturers don't allow you to get in there and manipulate statistics or they'd be out of business soon. You can always get a completely accurate.

Not only a snapshot, but a completely detailed list of all the sales that have been made through your list. So you always know what you're owed. And there's never any discrepancies. There's never any argument of, well, we sold 120 units. No, we only sold 118. It's all there. It's on that dashboard. And every major shopping cart has that facility. So for that reason, you just don't want to create the complication of you running the orders through your company. And the other thing, what a few. A few people I know have done that. Where you really get into problems is if there are returns, especially if it's a physical product, they're returning the product to you, and then you have to pay. If you're taking the orders, they're going to return the product to you, and then you have to pay to ship it back to your partner. And you have the time and the headache of doing that. So I always run the sales through the partner.

I love it. I love it.

Yeah. Makes life easy for everybody.

This has been fantastic. Very valuable. And I hope that every single person out there who is listening to this takes advantage of Bob's offer and just get the free report. There really is nothing to buy at the end of it. But joint ventures are one of those things that really is one of the most highly leveraged activities you can do because There are people out there with the customers that you need, but there's also people out there with products that your customers need. And each one of those can create a windfall of cash in your pocket. And you can make a lot of money brokering joint ventures like I know you have, like I have. And it's just a tremendous strategy. One of my absolute favorites. And, Bob, you've been a great guest. I'd love to have you back on here some other time. I'm sure you and I could talk for days about all different types of stuff, but until then, I actually look forward to our next lunch in a couple weeks.

Absolutely. Well, Brad, thanks for having me. I always enjoy talking with you. We can just. You and I could easily talk for hours. And it always.

It always helps both of us. It helps us see different ways of looking at things that we haven't thought of. So I really appreciate you having me on today.

Absolutely. To everybody else, if you have any questions for me, any ideas, any nuts you're trying to crack in your business, send an email to askbradaconwrappedbusiness.com Share this episode on social media if you like it and don't hesitate to reach out and tell me what you think. I will see you guys next time. And, Bob, I'll see you at lunch in a few weeks.

All right, Brad, you got it.

Bye. Bye.