If Amazon And Clickbank Had Sex, "Fedora" Would Be Their Love Child

How do you make business problems disappear? Wrap em in bacon for business owners, marketing execs and anyone trying to grow your business. Pump your profits and make more while doing less. Welcome to Bacon Wrapped Business with Brad Costanzo. Sizzling hot business advice guaranteed to make you fat profits. Every week our chefs will serve you proven recipes for ramping up your revenue. Now here's your host, Brad Costanzo.

Hey, welcome back to the show. I am thrilled to have you with me. And a big high five and hug.

Of thanks goes out to you guys because without you we could not be.

Growing at about 15 to 20% of subscribers every single episode. You know, I do no paid advertising for this show. I do very little promotional. I do it because I enjoy it and I enjoy sharing this with you and I enjoy talking to my guests. But I have not really done any.

Of the big bacon wrap strategies to promote the show.

I wanted to see how it would grow organically with great content. And I do believe we've been creating some unbelievable content. My goal for you is to always make it feel like you are stealing this from me.

Like this is a paid, this should.

Be paid, but it's not. And I have to think that the only reason we're growing is because you guys are sharing it. Tagging me on social media when you do. I love it when people tag me on Twitter or Facebook and say they love the episode. Been getting a lot of emails and.

Of course all those five star iTunes.

Reviews have been fantastic. If you haven't done that, I encourage you to if you like the show. If not, send me an email to ask bradbaconratbusiness.com Tell me why, Tell me how I can improve. That being said.

I really do enjoy doing this because when one person teaches two people learn and I get to think of topics to get on here and talk to you about and bring special guests in just like I've got today. And I always learn something new as well.

But I can't tell you how much.

I've enjoyed bacon wrap business and having.

You guys as my loyal subscribers. By the way, if you are listening.

On itunes, make sure you hit subscribe if you're just listening to one episode at a time. That way you'll always be notified when you when I update the show.

So today I want to talk about.

A. I'll call it a development in information marketing. So if you are currently an information marketer, have been or thinking about selling information either as your entire business or part of an overall business, pay real close attention. You know we're going to talk about a proven model that's been around for a while but been underutilized by a majority of smaller information marketers. But it's been, it's responsible for, you know, hundred million dollar business for one and another one that's really kicking butt. Let me explain what I mean.

By the way, this is probably part.

One of a two part series. I'm going to be interviewing one guy named Ankur Nagpal today and then soon I'll be interviewing Chris Luck on his take on this. So just to kind of give you an overview but before I bring Encore on, I want to tell you a little bit about this. Years ago I stumbled across a website called Lynda L Y N D A and it's a huge, huge school of all different types of thousands of courses that you can take online for something like $25 a month. Everything you can imagine. And it just so happens I believe they're doing about $100 million a year plus or minus a few cents. It's a lot of money and it's a great business model. If you're not familiar with Linda Trust, check it out. Then a couple years ago I stumbled across a site called Udemy u d e m-y.com and I immediately recognized that these types of elearning environments are very powerful and I've always said that it's almost like if you're familiar with ClickBank which is a big information product marketplace, if Clickbank and Amazon got married this.

Would be their baby because it is.

The proven marketplace with continuity or congruency of the sales process along with an entire marketplace of information and courses that you can access in one area that you're really familiar with.

I love that.

And it's a very big and proven model. Now what I believe and I've started to see the trends on as one of the biggest opportunities for information marketers right now is creating niche style membership sites just like this.

Revolving around your own topics as opposed to putting it into the big atmosphere of Udemy Coursera, it's creating your own. Now there's a friend of mine named Chris Luck who is going to be on the show very soon and he has developed an entire program called the Membership Method that teaches you how to do this on your own and how and why and it's really extensive. So I'll bring him on and I'll introduce him and his programs to you soon. But today I'm going to be interviewing a guy named Angkor Nagpal and he's built a software that allows you with.

Very little tech skills at all.

I mean, if you know how to use an Internet browser, you can do this to create your own niche based online courses, schools, if you would. And it's really powerful if you think about like, you know, maybe your niche is dog training. And instead of creating an entire sales funnel full of different websites that look like different things for multiple products on how to train your dog, et cetera, you create a school where people can take how to potty train your dog, how to walk your dog, how to do all this. And it's almost like E commerce meets. It is E commerce meets information marketing. And I'll give you some examples today besides you, Demi and Linda, etc. But today we're going to talk to Encore about his program called Fedora. And you can check this out by going to baconwrappedbusiness.com Fedora F E D O R A. You can get on there and try it out for free and see what it's like, stumble around. And I think that after listening to this interview and then a future interview with Chris Luck, you're going to absolutely love what you see and hopefully see the benefits for you. Because I'll tell you what, man, you take away the technological requirements and being a whiz, but you combine it with the ability to control your own school and not be subjected to some of the lack of control that things like Udemy and Linda have. You kind of get the best of both worlds with this. So in just a second, I'm going to bring Encore online and we're going to talk about this and you know, shed some light on a new, I guess a new twist on a very proven industry. So let's go over here to Encore.

Hey there, Encore. Are you with me, buddy?

Yep.

Nice. Glad to have you on the show today. I think it's going to be a lot of fun. I know I've got a lot of questions for you and any of the listeners in my audience who have been either thinking about or have current businesses in the, you know, selling information, education, content, etc. Are going to get a lot out of this because I think what you've got is really sitting on a major trend in information marketing that is only going to get bigger. And you know, from what I've seen, you're kind of one of the guys at the forefront of it. So really happy to have you come share what you're doing.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm excited to be here. As you mentioned, I think this is a really interesting and transformative time for education. I think investors and the kind of greater ecosystem is finally starting to realize that. But whenever I have these conversations, I tell people that selling information on the Internet is as old as the Internet itself. It's just like they're taking new forms. And we're excited to be in a good position right now.

Absolutely. So you own a company called Fedora or more specifically your website is use Fedora and Fedora, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm trying to get this out of my own words just because I think it helps. So Fedora is a platform by which information marketers can build courses very quickly and easily on your site. And I've gotten in, I've, I played around with it. It's very, very easy to just, if you have the content, whether it's video or PDF, et cetera, you upload it. It's very, very simple. I mean my parents could do this. And then you can create in essence your own self branded school. Right. Elearning environment. What are they calling this? Are they calling these elearning environments?

We internally call them schools just for simplicity and elegance of the word. I mean it does confuse some people a little but I mean ultimately there are collections of online classes and we like using the word schools.

You're right.

Excellent.

I think you summarized it pretty well. The only thing I would change is the only different way we talk about our product is we enable you to build a school on your site. I mean it is hosted on our technology but ultimately it'll be on your domain name, it'll look like your site, it'll be on your domain name and we just exist in the background.

That's great. So let's talk about why that's so important. And I actually know this and this is for my listeners benefit. But you know, traditionally as an information marketer you've got, you've got a handful of routes and the bigger route aside from just publishing books on Amazon, that kind of information marketing, you know, you can sell it, you know, a sales page on your own site with an add to cart button and people purchase the information and they just buy it there. Like you know, and a lot of times people's sales page looks totally different. You've got to build an entire sales funnel around, you know, selling this information. And that can be, that can be somewhat complex. There's a lot of tools out there.

That make that less complex.

But that's one route is just build it, sell it. And whether they take payment themselves or they go to a popular site like, like clickbank who allows, you know, they take your payment and you know, they handle all that other stuff. But you still have to set up the entire sales system and funnel and you have to set up the, the membership area.

That requires more tech skills or tech help, et cetera. Or there are sites that have been around, some of them have been around for a while, like Lynda L Y-N D A dot com who's really proven this model with millions of dollars of revenue every single month. And it's a place to go to get tons and tons of little skills. Microsoft Office or this, that or the other. They've got a plethora of things, but you're still on lynda.com or udemy. U D E M Y is another one. Well, okay, that's great. You can build your course there, but it's still on Udemy. And there are some advantages to that.

But there's also some disadvantages.

So yours, like you just said, allows people to build their own miniature Lynda, miniature Udemy, but it's all on their site, it's all branded, controlled by them. And they're not going off and buying other instructors stuff, they're buying their own, right?

Yep. So that is, you know, that is literally the biggest difference is data ownership. Like who owns your users? On Udemy and Lynda, you don't own anything. You don't own shit. You know, your users are their users. They're free to cross market them. They're, you know, they're free to suddenly change the rules on you. Like a lot of instructors got really annoyed that after being on Udemy, they introduced new rules that change what you can send to your own students. So now you're not allowed to link to almost any third party site that has that either asks for an email or ask for a sale.

You know, I noticed that so years ago when Udemy first came out, I've got a good eye for spotting trends and I saw that and I was.

Like, you know, this is really, really cool.

This is almost like if clickbank and Amazon got married and had a little baby love child, you know, because you get all the benefits of somebody else taking all the payment and handling all the tech and the membership stuff. But then you have a marketplace. Like this is really, really cool. So I built a basic site on there just to test and I had one of the modules linked over to my own squeeze page so I could capture the names. So I went in there about a month ago and I was playing around again and I created another little test course and I tried to put an external link with a, you know, with the ability to offer an ethical bribe to somebody and they said, nope, you got to get rid of that. Yep.

And it's funny, right? I mean, I think, I think Udemy is an interesting company, high level. I think they're going to be very successful. And you know, they have. Even for a company like us, you know, we're looking at, this is a massive market and other competitive companies only increase the size of the market. With Udemy, I mean, we started, I started this company as a Udemy instructor. Really?

Yeah.

I had, you know, a little bit of extra time. I didn't kind of know what my next steps were. Teaching seemed like a great way to spend time, you know, just talk about kind of things that I'd done in the past, you know, growing mobile applications, Facebook applications. And at the time, it seemed like Udemy was the go to place to teach. So my friend and I, Conrad, who runs Growhack in New York, we started teaching these classes on online growth on Udemy a couple of months in. We soon realized that we're doing decently. We're making two, three thousand dollars a month. And like a business person, I looked at it and I said, okay, $3,000 a month is great. What can I do to 10x this?

Turns out there's absolutely nothing you can do on a marketplace when you don't own the users. And you can't kind of cross when you don't own the users, you don't own their email address. There's very, very little you could do in terms of kind of maximizing your lifetime revenue. All the users we ended up bringing into Udemy ended up getting either cross sold into other courses or just being offered 85% off discounts site wide. So that really kind of cannibalized our market. And even small things like you couldn't really buy paid advertising against your Udemy course because the lifetime value was weak. Plus their landing pages did not convert. We wanted to sell subscriptions. You couldn't sell subscriptions on Udemy. And it soon reached a point where like, okay, let's just, you know, string together a really, really basic site of our own, host our own videos, handle payments, and put in like really good analytics because, you know, I mean, we're marketing people. We're like, we need to kind of like understand our lifetime value. We need to understand where people are dropping off. We need to like, you know, integrate with Mixpanel. So we did that. You know, our first product like this first iteration probably took, you know, two, three weeks. And that's, that's how the company was born. I mean, three weeks later we launched it. You know, just with our courses, we saw numbers do a lot better. And then slowly we started kind of going after the best instructors teaching on these marketplaces. And a lot of them were very, very happy to kind of do this and, you know, take control of their audience and their business.

I love it and I see it as really the next evolution. Because the nice part about Linda and Udemy is that they gave the person who was strictly not even a marketer, but it's just strictly somebody who had content in their brain and they wanted to kind of get it out and kind of mess with this with absolutely no worries about marketing or technology or whatever. They gave them that initial platform to just get it out there. And I guarantee they weren't. Most of the people weren't worried or even concerned about optimizing revenue. They probably never bought traffic. But the minute you start to understand that, okay, yeah, I want to make more some degree of success and I want to take my marketing into my own hands. I want to control my own site design and I actually want to be able to potentially convert paid traffic to this. That's what you give folks. And I really liked that when I stumbled across your site or I think I actually, I don't remember if I found you on Google or we have some mutual friends who.

Our SEO is pretty terrible. So I would guess you did not find us on Google.

Probably not. But you know, there's also not a ton of yeah. Folks out there doing what you're doing. That's why I think there's a kind of at that cutting edge. And I want to back up a little bit for my listeners and kind of explain because, you know, this is audio and they may not be able to see, you know, picture in their mind exactly what this looks like. But so imagine going to one site where it says, you know, look, here is. And heck, I may do this with my own show.

Bacon wrap business.

We'll make it like bacon wrap business courses, right.com and you know, courses that doesn't exist yet, by the way, guys, but they come there and now you can see maybe 10 different courses that I teach and you can see them all right there in a nice catalog style format. You click on one of them and it explains really, you know, really in detailed or as basic as I want, not only what you're going to get out of the course. But all the individual modules, you can see what's in there and then you can decide to sign up. You're right there for one, the other. But what you get is you get this continuity of the sales process and I love that. And that's one of the things that Amazon really has got down. Right?

Like every single product, no matter what.

You'Re buying, has got the same conversion process. All the sales pages look 90% similar except for the content. And that's what you bring people the ability to do. And it keeps it simple, it keeps it quick.

So what, what do you think? What are you doing? What else are you doing right now besides the ability to give. When I say you, I mean like the company, besides the ability to give us our own domain and a little more control. What are some of the other features that you're really proud of that Fedora brings?

Yep. Yeah. So I think, I guess there's two sides. There's two sides to this equation. One of them is kind of what happens after someone buys the course or enrolls in a course. A lot of times, you know, the funnel is you get someone enrolled in a free course. We are focusing really hard on, you know, providing people a really nice student experience. And when you look at a lot of information products and the history of information products, they're getting better, but most of them still have some pretty bad post sales experiences. Even if it's really good content, you know, you have some great, great information products where after you're done, they'll throw you into a downloadable zip file and that's it. You just download the videos, you watch them kind of however you want to. So we focus really hard on making it look and work like a course on the inside. I mean, you can talk to other students, you can talk to the instructor, you can track your progress. Everything feels like you're in an educational environment. Which is why we've started getting a little bit of interest from people that might not even have video courses, but just have ebooks, but are now kind of using this to deliver their ebooks because they can now create more engaging content with their ebooks. Right. Just the ability to have discussion between the author and the student and kind of clean progress tracking is great for the ebooks.

Right.

So that's one aspect we've focused on pretty heavily and will continue to. We've had a few experiments incorporating live elements and being able to have a hangout from within the class, which is definitely, you know, which is kind of one of the things you want to double down on and get really, really strong at.

Yeah, I think that'd be good. And live. Live casting is. It's been around for a little while, but I think it's going more and.

More.

Adoption because the people want more connection with their teacher. They want more connection with the guru or whomever is doing this, and that really facilitates that. So I think that's excellent. That's on the.

I said the other area we've tried to focus on pretty hard and, you know, we want to keep getting stronger is the commerce piece of it, which, I mean, coming from the affiliate world, I mean, none of this stuff will blow anyone's mind. But looking at it from the educational software angle like this is all very, very new for educational software. When you think about learning management systems, most of them are really, really shitty on the sales part. So from the learning management side, we have pretty good tools to actually help people make sales. For instance, every school has an inbuilt affiliate program where you can kind of appoint different people as affiliates on certain paid plans. You can set up other people as authors, and they have their own panel to upload their courses. You can decide what percentage of revenue to share with them.

Okay, let's stop.

Let's stop right there. Wait, let's not gloss over that, because that's actually a killer feature that I forgot to bring up and I want to make sure we hit on this.

Let me give an example. So baconratbusiness.com courses, right? Like, whatever courses I come out with, I can teach. Let's say I decide to teach five courses, but then I want to bring in another marketer who's an expert in something I'm not and allow them to teach a course and put it on my site, either exclusively or not. But let's just say I do an exclusive arrangement with you or somebody else to create a course on whatever.

Yep.

How to make the perfect plate of bacon.

And.

They can use Fedora on my system to build out their own course which will be featured on my site. And let's just say they decide to sell that for $10,000. Right. Because that would be awesome.

So $10,000, price point. Somebody buys it there, I can decide to share what, 50, 50 with them? I could give them $10,000.

It's up to you. I mean, it's a free text field. You choose what percentage on a to share with the author, if there's an author, and the author in turn gets their own admin panel where they can Edit only their courses and see financials for only their courses. And we handle paying them out directly.

Yeah, and that's the other big part. So you guys handle the merchant fees, you handle the merchant accounts, you handle all of that stuff, you handle the affiliate payments. Right. So I don't have to do all the 1099s at the end of the year. That's one of the benefits that a lot of folks have found, myself included, over the years using clickbank because they handle all the messy stuff. Some advanced marketers love to have control over their own merchant account and that. But I'll tell you the truth, that's not the kind of stuff that makes you money. The kind of stuff that makes you money is getting really high quality content out there and getting eyeballs on it. It's not the merchant stuff. So never worry about losing control. Now, let's say you've got, and I'm asking this, I think I asked you this the other day when we were offline talking, but I've got, let's say, a thousand customers now and they're using the Fedora on my site to learn. And I want to market to those people through, you know, through email. So what options do I have there? Number one, is there an internal system to where if I make a course announcement, it goes out to them automatically through your system? Yep.

Okay. So, yeah, so we have a pretty neat students filtering kind of tab where, I mean, obviously if you want to message the entire school, it's super easy. You can just press message, all type out an email within our admin panel and you know, we take care of everything else, deliverability, unsubscribes, etc. But I mean, you can take it to the next level by actually, you know, filtering on several parameters. I mean, you can, you know, send an email only to students that have never made you a dollar, or students that are not enrolled in any one of three courses, or students that came from a certain signup source, or students that enrolled after a certain date. Really, you can do that kind of filtering too, within our admin panel and send them an email from the admin panel.

I did not know that. I like that, though.

It is the next step, and this is something we haven't built yet or want to build soon, is being able to automate those notifications. So you can, while you're sending this email, you can send out, add a checkbox at the end saying every time you see a new student that matches these parameters, send the email. Because then you can build a really powerful marketing engine. Right. Natively in our platform.

Okay.

But even without doing that, we have integrations that make that possible already. You just need to use a third party tool. So for instance, for mailing, we integrate with mailchimp pretty seamlessly. We integrate with Mix Panel which is what most teachers use to set up automated emails based on kind of what students are doing.

Additionally, we're soon going, we were integrated with AWeber, now we're not. We're soon kind of bringing that back up along with GetResponse. So that's another feature that we're really doubling down on. Just letting people use services they're already using but just pass them all the interesting data to actually do smart things with it.

Right. So as of this taping right now, which is September 5, it does not automatically integrate with like let's say for instance, aweber or getresponse. It's not like using an API to integrate with. But I can do a couple things. Correct me if I'm wrong. Number one is it's my site. I can link out anywhere to my own little thing to say, hey, you want an extra bonus?

Grab this.

Number two, I can download all of my customers into CSV or Excel.

Yeah, you can download everything as a CSV and import that. AWeber makes it. I mean this is no fault of ours, but aweber makes it annoying to upload a CSV because they want to reconfirm everyone. I think you can file a support request to get past that, but I know getresponse I think is fine with that. Vertical response is definitely fine with that. I think getresponse is too.

Yeah, no, aweber can be as a merchant kind of a pain with that. I guess as a customer it's good but. Yeah, but you're right. So it's very doable. It's not automatic integration with everything yet, but that's kind of on the drawing board and coming.

What about with other things?

I think aweber specifically. Aweber specifically we want to. We'll get done by the end of the month.

Oh, nice. Perfect. Okay, so all of that's coming and like I said at the beginning of the show, you're really, it's early, it's cutting edge stuff. You're on the verge of building this, you've got. I do know we're not going to mention any of your competitors. There's a couple of them out there and I've taken a look at all of them and I was most impressed by yours and you even said right now you're the biggest of the platforms like this. Right. So you have. How many schools are using your, I say schools, I mean like, you know, other things are useful.

So we have close to 500 schools that are active as in, as defined as they have students enrolled in it. And there's about thousand total schools in total across 125,000 students.

That's beautiful. And it's just growing, I imagine.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, our numbers, our month on month growth is something that we're very happy with. Every month something unsustainably good happens which has me like terrified for the next month. INVESTOR UPDATE but so far, so far, so good. But every month, every month, you know that we're like, something just like goes super viral on like between the 15th and the 25th. Every month, the first two weeks, I'm like, oh, we got lucky last month, but that's now happening every month.

That's good. Yeah. And so, and you're not just to, I want to clarify to this to other people. You're not just doing this out of your garage and, you know, bootstrapping this. You've raised investor money.

One of our mutual friends has an angel fund. I know he's.

He loved it. He jumped right in. He said, no, I saw the vision here. So he invested and he's a major Silicon Valley player. So you've got some real backing behind this. And I'd love to see that because anytime, and this is a real concern, anytime somebody builds their platform on somebody else's stuff, you worry about who am I really building this with? Are they going to be around in six months? And if, if you disappear, where's all my stuff go? Well, from what I've seen, you're not going anywhere except for up.

So for the first, for the first few months, I mean, that's a question to feel constantly, what would happen if you were hit by a bus tomorrow?

Sure.

And the answer back then was like, yep, you're kind of screwed. But, you know, things have changed now. I mean, now we have, you know, full time, full time team of six.

We raised financing a couple of months ago and we're on a pretty solid growth path that we're super excited about.

I love that at the end of the day there's always redundancy involved. If you've uploaded the courses to your site, you should still have those in backup somewhere else and always be backing up your names and everything else. So any real business owner understands that and understands that that's not, you know, a major, you know, that's, that's not devastating unless you make it devastating. But I just, I wanted to hit on that fact that, yeah, you guys are, you guys are real. You guys are real deal.

That's the other thing I've kind of, I kind of think that's important about a platform like ours. As opposed to, say, Udemy.

Yeah.

If all your eggs are in the Udemy basket and Udemy were to go away, you'd be left with nothing. But, you know, imagine like worst case scenario, say like something completely terrible happens, like our company just cannot exist anymore. Your business is largely protected because it's running on your domain. So people are still going to come to your domain. You own all the data. You can download all your course data really easily. You own all the users. You can download them really easily. You're about as mitigated from disaster kind of going this route than almost any other route. That's great because you still have. You own everything.

That's fantastic. So what.

The big goal, I mean, do you have, the big goal is just to make this much more robust, Just continuing to add on advanced features and make it like the most robust platform out there for folks.

I mean, I think the big, big vision behind this company is I firmly believe that the direction in which education is changing is soon going to empower what we internally call million dollar instructors. That is teachers that are so much better than everyone else that they control the market and teach hundreds of thousands of people at scale. Which kind of makes sense when you think about it. Right. Why would you go to your community college to learn about social media when you can take a class with Gary Vee?

That's true.

Right. And we're huge, huge believers in that. We think there's going to be a few teachers that. And they can come from any directions. I mean, you know, you can have a celebrity that's famous in something else now teaching because it makes economic sense. You can have one teacher that's just so good that everyone kind of goes to them. And we're super excited by that vision. I mean, it's already happened in Korea and Japan where you have individual teachers making millions of dollars a year. So we think that is the future that is slowly starting to happen in America. We have one teacher that we think could be a very good candidate for getting to a million dollars. Obviously not in 2014 because they only started mid 2014, but in 2015. And we want to be the technology that powers them.

That's great. You don't have to be too specific, but what general field are they teaching in?

Is it.

Mobile development?

Excellent. And you know, that's what. So I'm also an enormous believer in this. Education is.

One of the few industries right now that I believe is highly ripe for massive, massive disruption.

I'm a big believer that, you know, that college as of almost like, you know, right now is completely a waste of time in most circumstances.

My friend James Altucher, who you may know or know of, is also an enormous proponent of this. I agree with everything he's, he's said on it. But the fact is we have so many alternatives to get world class education and to provide it as well that spending $40,000 to go sit in a classroom.

You know, just so that I can drink beer afterwards with my fraternity brothers is getting to be a waste of money. When I can get the education I can, you know, I can get certificates of completion of courses and all these other things online. Yep. And by democratizing the ability to teach, but also the ability to get taught, I think we really are changing the face of education. So and that's awesome because what a platform like yours allows people to do is not only just change the face of education but also help monetize it in a way. So it's not just about education. It really is free market capitalist education.

That's one of the reasons, I mean, as much as I love the romantic idea of Coursera and making information free and all that, I think tying financial incentives is a very powerful motivator for teachers. And as soon as you break that away, things change. I mean if you look at most of those sites, course completion rates are low. Single digit percentage on the free courses.

And Coursera and things like that. Yeah, well, when you take away, I take that back. Not when you take away the incentive, but when you add incentive to and you add a competitive environment to anything. I mean if I'm not getting paid, I can throw it up there just without really worrying about it. But if I know that hey, these people are going to refund if it's not good and if they it's not, they'll take my course and everybody else's, it's they'll take my course or they'll take this other person's course because they have to invest their own money in it, I'm going to make mine as good as possible. And that's just a win win for the consumer as well.

I'm not anti free education at all. I think the smartest teachers have found a way to charge to, you know, make something Free and charge for other stuff. I mean, yeah, for instance, we had, we had an IO. We had, we had, we have a few teachers that, you know, give out their content for free. But what they charge for is one on one time. And maybe that is kind of one of the interesting models moving forward. The other thing is, you know, whenever a course becomes dated, you charge for it for the first six to 12 months. Especially say you're selling a course about the hot new marketing channel. You know, charge for it for the first three months, kind of after it's exhausted, then distribute it for free. So it's a lot of innovative things you can do to, you know, kind of still give people the whole information is free, but still make a lot of money as a teacher.

Right.

I love that.

So, okay, though, one of the last questions I want to ask you, and this is, I'm flipping the table on you on this in a good way. But I want to know what I can help you with. What is your biggest challenge right now or is there anything? Because, you know, I am a marketing coach, consultant and a business consultant and I work with people all over the country and helping to solve their business problems. So I always like to kind of flip the tables and say, is there anything that you could use another opinion on or some advice on? If not, that's awesome. But I definitely want to see if I can help you, especially with this because I love what you're doing. Yeah.

Honestly, man, my hardest, my biggest business challenges right now are just kind of understanding what it entails to run a grown up business.

I gotcha.

Yeah. The amount. For instance, today I got paperwork from the state of New York.

That required me to mail back a form 10 days ago. And I just checked my mail. I check my mail once a month, which I realize is not optimal when you're trying to run a business.

Whoops.

So, yeah, those are kind of, you know, my biggest challenges right now.

I got you.

Otherwise, honestly, I think long term, if you're trying to decide what's going to make your business successful in the long term, that's five to 10 years. I mean, it comes down to having the smartest people around you. That was a challenge for me initially because I'm so used to doing things independently. Most of my companies in the past have been, you know, one, two, three, four man shows.

Sure.

But now, you know, a lot of time goes into, you know, building the team and getting like super smart, talented people that work well together all in a room, working the way you want them to. And that is, you know, that is my biggest challenge. There's no, like, magic bullet solution there. It's just something that I, I think I'm getting better at every day. But, you know, that's probably, that's probably, you know, the biggest business challenge I, and I would imagine most companies that are trying to exist in 10 years will face.

Yeah, I agree. Those growing pains. Well, if there's anything I can ever do to help you out, I mean, I'm doing what I can to help.

You get me 10,000 schools started.

They will do it tomorrow. Right, guys? Speaking of that, so if you guys want to go check this out, set up a special link for you. Go to baconwrappedbusiness.com Fedora F E D O R A and it will direct you to more information on exactly how to use this. And it will give you everything you really need to know about cost structure, which. That's the other thing. We didn't talk about it. They can go to your site and see it, but it's extremely flexible pricing, including you can set up as a pay as you go.

Right.

Like you can set up the entire school on your site, get it all designed and never pay a single penny unless a.

Someone buys. Yeah, somebody buys and becomes a student. And then if you get more successful and more successful and you got more students, more students coming in and you want to save money on the per student basis, he's got other programs where you can just pay a pretty nominal fee monthly and the percentage of every student goes down. And it's a, it's a really nice flexible pattern. If you get a lot of students, he's got a really, really great rate for you. So.

And just to add.

We don't charge based on number of students or on bandwidth. So I mean, you could theoretically have, you know, a school with 100,000 people and it still probably wouldn't be that expensive.

Yeah, that's fantastic. I love that.

I'd also like to offer my email address if anyone kind of wants to reach out for questions.

It's my first name. A N k u r@youthfedora.com you know, I'm happy to like, personally answer any questions any of you might have.

Perfect. I appreciate that and I know they will as well. And we'll get the word out. Guys, here's one of the things I did when I first discovered it. I went over there, I created an account, and it was even just a test account just to see the.

How does this work? What's it look like behind the scenes and under the hood and it didn't cost me a penny to do that and I could start creating. And what I realized was, man, this is really easy. And holy crap, I wish it was around when I built my first information product back In, I think 2007 or 2008, because I would have had 10 times the success I've got today simply because the tools make it that much easier to overcome. So go over there, tinker around, play with it, and then commit. If this is something you're in the business of commit, create a school. It's on your site and you've really got nothing to lose. You can do that@baconratbusiness.com.

Fedora F E D O R A and if you have any questions about this, you can email Ankur and he gave you the email address. I'll put it on the site as well. A n k u rusefedora.com and likewise my email address if you have any questions for me. If you'd like a second opinion on your own business strategies, if you have other guests or other products or companies or things that you'd like me to feature on the show and talk about and extract all the goodies like I just did with Encore, send me an email to askbradaconwrappedbusiness.com Heck, tell me your biggest business challenge and maybe I'll feature it or you on the show. Anyway, I appreciate everybody's attention and time listening to this. I know you want to go over and try out Fedora as soon as possible.

So go do that.

Keep listening. And Encore, thank you very much for being such a great guest and I look forward to watching you grow and hopefully being a part of it as well.

Likewise, Brad. I enjoyed this.

Thank you.