Instagram Marketing with Alex Tooby

How do you make business problems disappear? Wrap em in bacon for business owners, marketing execs and anyone trying to grow your business. Pump your profits and make more while doing less. Welcome to Bacon Wrapped Business with Brad Costanzo. Sizzling hot business advice guaranteed to make you fat profits. Every week our chefs will serve you proven recipes for ramping up your revenue. Now here's your host, Brad Costanzo.

Alright, welcome back to Bacon Wrap Business. I'm Brad. If this is your first time ever listening to the show, thank you very much. I hope you enjoy it. If you're on itunes, click the subscribe button so you don't miss a thing. And if you are listening on the blog post, you can also subscribe on itunes or to the newsletter where I send this stuff out and let you know whenever a new episode is live. Today we are going to be talking to Alex Tuby, an Instagram marketing expert. But before I introduce her, let me tell you about our sponsor, Stiletto coffee from stiletto coffee.com Now I've got a very warm place in my heart for this company because it was founded by my wife with a little bit of help from myself. It is for driven women with exquisite class and a touch of class ass. But I do invite you to go check out if you are a coffee drinker or you've got somebody that you'd love to give coffee to as a gift, I encourage you to go check out stiletto coffee.com and see what we're doing over there. Both because it's awesome and two, as a marketing study of what we're doing. Now that being said, let's introduce you to this 26 year old from Vancouver, Canada who has built a targeted, engaged and profitable following of over 385,000 people and growing. So whether you are trying to build yourself a brand and use the highly engaged Instagram to do that, or you just wanna figure out a little bit more about what this is all about and see if there's an opportunity for you. Tune in now. Actually you are. So let's get to it. Let me go pull Alex onto the call. Okay, so let's get to it. Alex Toobe, welcome to Bacon wrap business. How are you?

I'm good. Thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, it's a pleasure. This is gonna be a fun conversation for me because I am, I am new to the world of Instagram marketing.

I've been a direct response marketing guy for most of my career and that's usually branding has been a part of it, but not as much and social media has primarily for me revolved around doing Facebook ads and other ads and trying to get people to take an action immediately as possible so that I can return on investment. But recently, since my wife and I launched our Stiletto Coffee brand, this has been a new world. And we've had to look at the world of Instagram, even Pinterest. Although I'm a little more interested in Instagram here and build up a real tribe and a brand and a feeling for this. And as I mentioned offline, I stumbled across your site. I think it was women in coffee and men in coffee and I. And then I noticed you had, you know, instagrammarketing.com, which I saw that Facebook gave you a little slap on the wrist.

Yeah, actually Instagram gave me that slap.

Nice.

Yeah. So I've since moved to Alextoobe.com exactly.

Alextuby.com and you are teaching people how to build and monetize a really good Instagram following and helping people avoid some of the mistakes they've made. So tell me a little bit more just about you, like what were you doing before you got into.

You know, to Instagram marketing and how long has it been?

Well, I've started the like Instagram specific business probably in July, so I don't know, that puts us at six or seven months. But prior to that I feel like everything, like my whole life has just been a series of exit strategies. Every job I ever had, I was always, always, always working, you know, behind the scenes, trying to make money online, like trying to figure out some way that I could stop working for somebody else.

So my background is in graphic design and print technology. So I worked for multiple print shops, you know, doing graphic design, actually operating an offset printing press which.

Oh wow.

Probably the most like hands on masculine job I've ever had. But it was awesome. I liked it. And you know, I could have continued on doing that, but yeah, I've just always, ever since I was young, like had this desire to work for myself. So following that, you know, like I did, you know, I did selling on ebay, I did affiliate marketing, like just basically anything. And the funny part was that I, you know, pulled myself away from having a in person boss to doing affiliate marketing where I was making money for somebody else. So it like, it was just funny how I ended up there. But I eventually made the decision, hey, I need to start doing something that pays me and I have people working underneath me and not, you know, the other way around. So I started a social media consulting business. So I was working with a few people, a couple authors, a few reporters here in Vancouver, and just helping them manage their, you know, Twitters and Google and whatever. And it was, you know, fulfilling. It was what I was interested in doing. However, I just, I felt, you know, I was competing with all these other social media managers, like, trying to, you know, be the best at every single platform. And then I realized, you know what? I really like Instagram. Like, I'm getting the most return on investment for me. Maybe not monetarily at the beginning, but I enjoyed it the most. So I decided, you know what? I'm gonna stop being a generalist, and I'm going to start being a specialist. And that's when I decided to just focus strictly on Instagram. And I think that's really when everything started taking off for me. And now here I am.

That's awesome. And I think that is so smart. I've actually made that mistake in my life of being too much of a generalist. And when I've started to specialize, I started to see a lot more results. And the nice part is if you do have a general knowledge and background, but you put yourself out there as a specialist, people will seek you out for that. And there's so many more things they can help you, you can help them out with. So that's really cool. So what made you decide was the Men in Coffee, Women in coffee? Were those two brands, were those your first real stabs at this, or did you try and fail some other stuff?

Yes, I would say those were my first. Men in Coffee was my first real stab at it. Obviously, I had a personal account, but that was just a jumble of things that really was not taking me anywhere. So. But yeah, so, you know, a friend and a friend and I had a conversation one night and we were like, oh, you know, men drinking coffee. The coffee culture here in Vancouver is really big. And we just kind of thought that.

Two things, we like coffee and sexy men.

And so, you know, after that night, I go home and look on Instagram and nobody was doing anything like that. And I was like, I don't know, you know, I don't know what I'm gonna do with this, but I feel like people are gonna like it. So I just, you know, made the account and started uploading pictures from there, and it took off, like, really quickly. So I would say, yeah, that's where all of my learning happened. And, you know, how to really build a community, how to make sure it's engaged and my followers, like, care about What I'm posting and obviously how to monetize and get publicity. And all that kind of stuff really happened from Men and Coffee.

Nice. So you give a quick explanation to the listeners because this is yours. I'd love for you to do it because they're listening on a podcast and who knows if they're also going to Instagrame Menand Coffee or Women in Coffee.

What's the site all about? Both of them tell them what they could expect if they go there.

Well, the beauty of the account is that it's simply exactly what it sounds like. It's Men and Coffee. So every single picture includes an attractive man drinking coffee or an attractive woman drinking coffee. And that's basically all it is. And you know, I found that I have the most success from these accounts because I stick so strongly to that focus. So that's something maybe we'll talk about later on. But you know, a lot of people will start an account and they'll post about their food and their kids and their cats and whatever and it's too, it's too diluted. So basically you see the link Men and Coffee. You get there and that's what you get. So that's what, why my audience loves it so much is because I'm providing them with what they want.

Yeah. And that's probably. If you are an influencer, celebrity, an individual, like a personality, and you're not necessarily trying to be a guru or you're teaching something, it's probably fine to give people a look into your personal life and posting pictures of this in your life, but exactly with what you're doing, you're building up kind of a brand and a, and an interest based community there. So if you were to post pictures of what you're eating today, your lunch, it's totally off brand, so it's probably going to hurt you. And I think that's whenever you go to your page, it's got this beautiful congruent brand feel. That has probably been why it's been growing so much. Why do you think men in Coffee has grown like 10 times faster than women in coffee?

The ladies like looking at boys, right?

Yeah, I will. Like demographically there are more women on Instagram than there are men. However, I don't really know if that plays that big of a role into it. But I did start Men and Coffee first and it received a lot of publicity. So almost, I think it was just maybe 3 months after I had started, I already had about 10k followers and the Daily Mail UK reached out to Me. And it's so funny looking back on it, because I remember the subject line was like, press inquiry. And this was the first time I ever received something like that. And I was like, oh, this is interesting. They're like, we want to interview you, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, okay, sure. And tell kind of my family and my brother. And he's like, I don't think, you know, like, how big of a deal that is.

Well, it's just a little blog. Right? It's a little blog.

Daily Mail, I don't know. And then 24 hours later, the article came out and then, like, I grew, like, I don't know, 40,000 followers that day.

Really? Wow, that had to be nuts to see that in your feed.

Yeah. So then, you know, other articles started coming out since then. I actually have a print article in Cosmopolitan Singapore, which is, like, mind blowing. So. Yeah. So I think the publicity really obviously played a big part here. Women in Coffee got a few articles, but nothing to the same extent.

That's awesome, though. Yeah. I mean, so the press is one of the things that really gave you that boost. And then continuously posting quality stuff that's on brand, people knew what they can expect is what helped. So I have gone to.

Is it just AlexTuby.com because I can't remember since you switched it, but you have an email course for free that you go over a handful of the steps. I think my course. Good timing, just finished taking today the free version and you touch on some of the big pillars and the big points of what it takes to really master creating a community on Instagram. Can you go over just briefly, what those. I think there's like five or six of the main topics, kind of what those are, but then I want to dive into some more specific questions that I know I've got and anybody else who's even thought about marketing on Instagram or whatever is going to love and probably have those questions too. But let's start with the foundation first. What is the. What are the main things that people need to take into consideration when building out their Instagram following and, you know, throw in a few mistakes that people make.

Sure. So first of all, I'll just say that, you know, apart from men in coffee, now kind of my focus is helping people with businesses succeed on Instagram. So, yeah, anyway, so I'll just put that there. So the course is more so directed towards people with businesses. But yeah, so the whole point of the course was really to teach people about how important having a strong foundation is because I think a lot of people, they get on Instagram and they're like, okay, I'm just gonna upload a bunch of pictures and you know, you know, promote my product and people will buy it. Right. Which doesn't really work as well on Instagram because like you kind of said in the very beginning of our conversation was that it's about building that tribe and that community and, you know, building relationships with your audience rather than, you know, buying ad like you would on Facebook to try and get that quick sale. So the foundation really is all about, you know, sharing high quality content. I feel like, you know, the, the quality of your content directly relates to the quality of customer or audience you will attract. So if you're uploading really crappy content, it's low quality, it's blurry, whatever, you're going to attract a cheaper customer.

So high quality content is super key. Having a bio that's written specifically for your audience, so they need to know right away what your business is about, what your expertise is, what they can see on your page or expect to see on your page. And then obviously you only get one link on Instagram, so you have to really take advantage of that. And I always tell people to include a call to action within their bio to click that link. So, so.

There'S that and then that would be the foundational stage, I'd say. But from then on out, let me just, I'm just gonna pull this up. It's gonna be easier if I pull up my lessons here.

And I was really impressed at how good your free email marketing course was. And I know you've got one that you actually sell which probably goes deep into depth. But one of the reasons I'm complimenting you on that is because a lot of people will do.

The opt in for this email series on X and it's usually they kind of phone that one in. It's usually the most basic stuff and really kind of thrown together quickly. But it looks as though you've taken some real time into creating something valuable and I've went through every single one of them. So I'm letting folks know that I'm endorsing your email series on that for sure.

Yeah, that's great to hear because I mean, like most people, we do our competitor research. So I've signed up for a lot of other people's Instagram E courses and I'm always like, so disappointed because they're just like, I feel like people just, they, they tell you so they say you can make money On Instagram, like. But I work more from a teaching perspective. Like, I want to teach you exactly how you can do that. So when I sign up for someone's email, like, I want to receive value, and when I don't receive that, I'm, like, disappointed. Right. So.

Yep. No, I mean, it takes a little extra work to put in the quality. But, I mean, it shows both on the Instagram, but also on the. On the follow up. So you said you were pulling something up?

Yeah, I'm just actually pulling up the email course so that I can go over what I included. But I would be interested in asking you if you thought the information was overwhelming for someone who's not. Totally.

Not in the least. No, not in the least. I'm just getting started with it. As I'm a guy. I didn't use Instagram. I mean, I barely used Instagram in my personal account. And I just did it like I was taking pictures and throwing them up there. Like, okay, whatever. Wasn't trying to build a brand, wasn't trying to do anything. So I was about as new as it gets there. Granted, I have this extremely advanced intellect that picks up quick.

I mean, I get it. So, like, I'm a quick study and I kind of get it, but I've been getting it. Although your stuff has really helped. And there's a lot of stuff that is.

It's elementary once you understand it, but in the beginning you're like, oh, I never even thought to do that. And it is a slow sale in Instagram. It can be really effective. And I've heard of people killing it with sales, but they don't go in for the kill. It's almost. It's like, that is real attraction marketing, right?

Yeah. Okay, cool. Because, you know, I. My business model is totally to give value, you know, first and then ask for money later. But I was worried that maybe I gave away too much value, but I don't think so. Yeah, so we kind of talked about, you know, having a good bio, you know, a call to action for your link, quality content. The next thing I sort of touched on with men in coffee is having a super strong focus. So your account needs to focus on, I would say, one to three things specifically. So, you know, just for random example, if you were like a fitness trainer, you'd only want to post about, you know, your workouts and your nutrition. You wouldn't want to post about, like, your kids and your pets or whatever, that same concept. So you need to keep it really, really streamlined. Because as soon as you start diluting it with other stuff. People get confused. They forget why they're following you in the first place, and then, you know, it never really leads to anything.

Yeah. And do you find that some people have. That there's a resistance there because they think, well, but I want to connect with my. I want to let my audience in on my life because I think it'll make them connect with me more. I could see that being some. Some people's resistance to just keeping it really focused because they want to try to keep. There's this big move towards authenticity and letting people see who you really are. But what you're saying is that that's fine, but with Instagram especially.

It'S more effective to have that cohesive branding, right?

Absolutely. And I think that that's a valid point, though. People definitely are concerned about that. And I'm not saying you can't humanize your brand and include, you know, personality and pictures of you if you want, but what I always tell people is that if you're gonna include a photo of yourself or something about yourself, it still has to relate to the focus of your account. So, you know, if, like we said, it's a fitness account and you post a picture of yourself, you're not gonna say, oh, I went to dinner last night with my boyfriend and it was awesome.

Gotcha.

I went to dinner and wait, chose the healthiest meal on the menu, and, you know, I chose it for these reasons or whatever. So I think you can include your personal life as long as it still relates to your focus. And I think that, you know, including your personality doesn't mean you have to post a selfie. I feel like, you know, on my business account, which is instagram.com instawithalex I've never. I think I've maybe posted one picture of me, like, way back in the beginning, but I like to include my personality in the way that I type out my captions.

Yeah.

When you read them, you can kind of like, almost hear my voice and the way that I'm saying it. And it's in my own words, and it's not super rigid and businessy or anything. So that's another way to convey your personality on Instagram.

Yeah, I love that. So some of the questions let me dive into some of the more specific questions that I personally have as I've been going through. And these are not necessarily in any. In a real specific order, but these were the questions that I had, like, just, you know, for the stiletto coffee Instagram that I'M building out. So one.

How did you get people. So one of the, one of the cool things that you've done in Women in Coffee and Men in Coffee is, I mean, these are almost all user generated content, which is beautiful. And by saying that, I mean, it's for the most part, correct me if I'm off base, but it's other people who are posting their own pictures, like a hot woman with coffee or a hot man with coffee, and they're tagging you in it in many cases, and then you're in essence reposting it, sending a little love back to them. But you're not creating all of this stuff yourself, right?

No, that truly is the beauty of both of those accounts at this point is that 99% of it is done by somebody else.

Yeah. So along those lines, how did you, when you were getting started, how did you get people to tag themselves with, you know, men in coffee, women in coffee? I mean, did you just reach out to them? Did you just start randomly posting them and then tagging them in it and then starting to just get that going? What was the genesis of that?

Yeah, I mean, straight from the beginning, I included that in my bio. I said, use the hashtag menandcoffee for a chance to be featured. And. And you know, at that point I just kind of did that. And I didn't really know if it was going to take off or not. But yeah, I would go, you know, I would look through. So I obviously would start with different hashtags just to find some content. And if I found a guy who, you know, had a feed where he looked really good and sometimes he had coffee or whatever, I would comment on the photo and say, this is a great picture. You should use the hashtag menandcoffee. And you know, some people might think that that's a little spammy, but that is how I started in the beginning was I kind of just, you know, started creating that awareness. But really, you know, I focused on building that community and building up my following. And basically the larger my following got, the more the people wanted to be on it. So, yeah, they, they started using the hashtag not because I told them to, but because they're like, well, if I use this, like, I might get a chance and it might be my moment and my 10 minutes of fame on this account or whatever. So, yeah, so it kind of really took off on its own with a little push from me. But yeah, I don't know, I think people just really want to be on the account Once the numbers get up there. Right. Like, you would want your coffee to be on account with 300,000 followers. Right?

Absolutely. Yeah. I would be taking my shirt off and With a cup of coffee and tagging you in it immediately. Because I've seen some of these, like, they get like, 8,000 likes or whatever. And I imagine that, like, if I did that and I'm tagged and.

And it's a good, sexy picture that I'm gonna. That my followers are gonna go up. Just because people see that on yours and they follow the link because you're always tagging that person in the link.

Totally. Yeah. And just a little side note on that is that, you know the people who. So if you. If you take your shirt off for this man in Coffee picture and I share it for you, but on your feed, you never take your shirt off again, or there's never a picture of you, then the amount of followers you're gonna get from me is not gonna be as good as if you consistently have, you know, great photos of you with your shirt on or whatever.

Kind of shows you how consistency pays across the board.

Right, Exactly. So you only really want, like, you'll get the most bang for your buck if you. If your feed is really in a line with the feed you're being featured on.

That's really good to know. Have you. Have you heard back from any of the men or women? But, like, the men is the one where you. You've got the most octane on that one. Has anybody reported, like, Whoa, I got 500 new followers since you did that. Have you got any anecdotal.

Yep. I've had someone tell me they got over a thousand.

Nice.

Yeah. And I actually monetize the account by, you know, people will pay me to be on the feed. Oh. So, yeah. So, you know, I. It's. It's kind of hard to track it, you know, specifically. Like, I can't say all of this person's followers came from me, but if they had a big surge, then chances are good. But. Yeah. So, you know, not only do they get more followers, but their picture is higher up on the top posts.

Yep.

Hashtags. I don't know if you're familiar with that.

I am.

But, yeah, they just get exposure. Right. And my account, most of the people who I feature happen to be models, so their whole goal is to get.

Yeah.

Get spotted by an agency or whatever. So.

See, I thought those were, like, everyday joes, and I was, like, just feeling really bad in comparison. I'm like, is that the average guy out there.

Well, you know, I do do my best. Like, it's so funny because there's a bunch of other accounts that are like, hot dudes doing this and hot dudes doing that, whereas men in coffee is just men. It was never supposed to be, like, the hottest guys ever. So I do my best to show a variety of people and a variety of different styles, like, you know, clean cut guys, tattooed guys, whatever. You know, obviously different races and stuff like that. But since all the publicity that I got, a lot of it was from, you know, Cosmo and People and mtv, and that brought a lot of people over to my feed that really like the guys with their shirts off and the monolistic guys. So, you know, I had to kind of change my trajectory and start appealing to them more. So, yeah, in the beginning it was more about the coffee, and now it's definitely more about the men, but that's what they want.

So do. Are. Are all of the, like, on men in coffee are all of the ones that get features? Are they. Are they paid or do some of them just get.

No. Oh, no, absolutely not. It's like 80% is just free. I just pick the best ones. And. And, you know, I get so many direct messages, which is usually where I kind of, you know, negotiate a deal, but I have so many messages that sometimes I'm just, like, terrified to even look in there.

Oh, I imagine. Yeah.

Definitely leaving money on the table. But, you know, I have other things that I'm focusing on, so it's all right.

No, I like it, but that's good.

Okay.

That's kind of how I kind of figured.

Okay.

Do you use. So there's a lot of. Or there's a handful of different automation tools out there. Like, I've played around with Instagrass, and I've seen a handful of other ones out there. Do you a recommend people use any of the automated tools out there? And if so, which are the ones you kind of like? Or if not, you know, you can explain that too.

Yeah, I'm gonna burst a lot of bubbles here and say, no, you shouldn't be using Instagrass. And the reason why, before anything else, is that it's actually against Instagram's terms of service to use automated programs like that.

So if you care about your brand, you may get it shut off, and it's more risk than it's worth.

Exactly. So most of my clientele now are business owners, so I tell them, you know, like, if your business means anything to you, you don't want to risk it. Right. And a ton of people use Instagrass and they get results and whatever and they never get banned, but there's still the chance that it could happen. So it's totally up to you if you want to take that risk. However, I do say, like, if you're creating an account like men and coffee, and you're just kind of like trying it and just seeing what happens, then, you know, whatever. I'm not going to stop you from doing that. Yeah, you know, that's your decision. And yeah, you can do whatever you want. So if it's just kind of like a fun account, then go for it and see what happens. But the other thing with those automated programs or software is that most people can tell it's automated. So if you put in a couple comments that you want it to leave for you, like, you know, the worst thing is when somebody posts like a video and you comment, nice page, like, then someone's like, hey, what is wrong with this person? I'm not gonna even look at their page, never mind follow them. Right. So, yeah, so it just like I kind of said earlier on, I feel like high quality images attract high quality customers. It's the same if you are automating everything. You're gonna attract other people who are automating stuff, and then you end up with an unengaged audience, which, you know, doesn't make you any money.

Yeah. So is it the manual version, though? It sounds like a lot of work because I know that one of the strategies to get a lot of followers, I mean, you can post a million pictures out there and they're great pictures, but if you're. It's like kind of if a tree falls in the woods and nobody's around to hear it. And I know that one of the best strategies is to find.

The followers of certain.

I'm getting tongue tied here. But you follow the followers of people who are perfect to your demographic. Like maybe mine for Stiletto Coffee, maybe it's another coffee company, or maybe it's a woman who fits the demographic and I follow her followers or I follow and then like a. Follow one of their followers and then like some of their photos. But that's a very manual process. But is that something that you just still recommend doing is spend some time, do it manually?

Yeah, I mean, I'm not against hiring a virtual assistant or, you know, somebody to do it for you, but I wouldn't use software. That's all I'm saying. Okay. But yeah, it is, it is a time commitment. But I do find that, you know, with most good things, like the more effort and work you put into it, the more you'll get out. So that's part of the game. But I think a lot of, like, in the beginning, you'll spend more time than you will later on. Which is why, you know, my whole free E course is all about, you know, building this strong foundation, because once you have that strong foundation, it will work for you long term. Whereas if, you know, you just start implementing Instagram straight from the beginning, it might not, you know, serve you over and over as long as you want. So, yeah, it takes time. But like I said, you can definitely get people to help you out or, you know, hire someone or whatever you got to do.

Totally. So now you talked a minute ago about.

You know, one way, one of the ways you monetize this is. Yeah, you get paid for, I guess you'd call them shout outs a lot of times. That's one of the names. What are some other ways that. Let's just say, I mean, the most obvious way to monetize an Instagram account is if you have a business and people are coming and then going through your link and buying your stuff. That's one way to monetize it. But you're obviously monetizing this in a different way.

In the history of humankind, we never had the ability for more people to create an income by playing as we have right now. And there's so many people out there just taking selfies. If they're hot, they're taking selfies. They end up getting paid for this. If you create communities on this. And it's really mind boggling that if you're willing to put the work in, you're a little bit creative, you can create income streams. What are some of the other income streams that you've seen or ways to monetize an Instagram feed? Especially if you're talking to somebody who they don't have an existing business, but they want to use Instagram and think about different ways they can monetize it.

Right. Well, that's a great point. Not having an existing business because. Because I didn't have one when I started mending coffee either. I just kind of went for it. And then once I started getting all the followers, I was like, oh, crap, how am I gonna monetize this? So the first thing that I did actually was partner up with a fulfillment company and I'm with theprintful.com and so they're basically like a dropship company where I created some T shirt designs and I upload them there. And basically if someone orders a shirt from me, then they handle, they print the shirt, they ship it out, handle any customer service. So it's kind of like a set it and forget it type thing. So that was where I first monetized. So I make T shirts and coffee mugs that, you know, obviously had something to do with coffee. So that's where I started then was the shoutouts. And then I also do sponsored posts which are a little bit different because it's usually from a brand that's contacting me. So like if I'm doing a shout out to just, just, you know, an individual who's a model and he wants, you know, exposure, I'll charge him a hundred bucks or whatever. If it's a brand, say like Keurig, they've sent me product before and then, you know, we negotiate, you know, more compensation on top of that to post basically an ad for them.

So I have not seen you do that like on like I'm not paying attention to your feed 100% of the time.

Right.

But I haven't seen those. When I go to your site, it just kind of looks like that. How do you typically do that? Do you post it up for a period of time, like a picture of, let's say Keurig, and then you take it down after a while or how does that work?

People definitely do that. I usually, you know, one of the features of working with me is that I like to keep it on there for lifetime is what I say. Like I have no plans of deleting it, but I've definitely turned down a lot of people because they don't align with my brand.

Sure.

Usually you don't notice the ad because I try and make it seem like it's not an ad. There's a lot of people who, you know, they get 100,000 followers and now they're like, oh, people are selling me product and then their stream just turns into an advertisement like every day it's like this teeth whitener, buy this tea or whatever. Right. So, you know, like I said, I'm probably leaving money on the table, but having a feed that's more cohesive and high quality and doesn't look like spam is more important to me and it will end up attracting know that higher end client who's willing to do a photo shoot specifically for me or whatever. Right. So yeah.

Well, I like how you say you keep the ads kind of native, meaning you keep it Looking. It doesn't look like a blatant ad. You're not just gonna see a big banner to go get something. You're gonna work it in. It has to at least, like, will you tell them that? Okay, let's just. We'll use just Keurig for an example. That. All right, well, you gotta. If you're doing this on men and coffee, you've actually got to include a man and coffee with Kurig on this.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, I have a different negotiation with everyone who emails me. And like, sometimes they want to provide the photo or sometimes they just tell me that I can take the photo. So if I can do it, then I can do it to my, you know, standard. But I've definitely had people who were just like, okay, like, here's some pictures. And it's just like a shot of their bag of coffee. And I'm like, have you looked at my feed? Yeah.

Right.

This is not what's on my feed.

So.

So, yeah, so then sometimes it's a little back and forth and then they end up, you know, making it work or they don't. So. But yeah, but that just shows, like, for me how important it is to really, like, stick to your thing and be like, you know, strong about it and stick to your style because in the end it'll be worth it.

Well, yeah, and it keeps it, you know, it keeps brand longevity. So the. I've also seen some Instagram accounts where they do much more in depth layouts, where, like, I found one app that'll do this for you, Planogram. And some of them where they'll use almost like a mosaic, but, you know, six pictures or whatever will. It'll be like one big photo broken up into six pictures. So when you get there, it's like a gigantic photo as opposed to just a bunch of individual ones. Do you have any take on that? Effective? Not effective. Haven't really played with it.

I have a take on everything, Brad.

I figured you would.

That's why I asked. Okay. Those things, sure, they look cool. Okay. So here's the one way that I think you could use it. If you have a brand or a business or whatever, but you're not like ready to start posting on Instagram consistently. You could put up one of those, and it's kind of like an advertisement, kind of like a placeholder for your account. So when somebody visits, they're like, oh, look at this, it's cool, or whatever. But if you have a thousand followers and you post one of Those. That means you're gonna have to post like nine images back to back, and eight of them aren't gonna make any sense because they're just like a corner of, you know, the piece, the big piece. Right.

That's what I was wondering as well, because it's like, well, yeah, if people are gonna see this in their feed and they're either gonna see like six or nine of them from you immediately and go, what the hell? You're clogging up my feet. Feed with crap. Or you're just going to drop one that's like, weird. And it's not going to create enough curiosity. And they'll just say, I'm unfollowing this person.

Absolutely. So, yeah, so if you have like no followers and you want to do it at the very beginning, go for it. Or actually, I have a girl in my Facebook group who did one of these and she did an amazing job and it probably took her forever because she made it so that each image was like, looked okay on its own.

Nice.

So she. I don't know how she planned it out, but she planned it out so when each was cut into its little square, it could act as its own image. So I thought that that was great if you have the time to do that, but you definitely have to consider that because otherwise people are going to unfollow you for sure.

Okay, well, that's great because I was. The first time I saw it, I was like, yeah, that's really cool. And I could also see how, you know, you could have one account that is the one that you like your men and coffee or whatever. And then maybe you have a secondary account that you like you said you don't really post to. You just kind of keep it there as that billboard so that your first account can maybe in the link bio, you're driving people over to the other account and then that's where the big call to action happens or something. I was like, okay, I can see how to do that. But I'm glad you answered that because that also seems really complex and I didn't want to do it.

Yeah, exactly. It's just so funny because people see that and they're like, this is cool. And then that's where the, like, thought process ends. Yep.

Cool and effective are not always identical. So cross promos. When it comes to those, have you, have you gotten many people to do cross promos of you? Like, and have you reached out and asked for shout outs for yourself either for your Insta with Alex account or your, your Other ones, I kind of.

Feel like a snob because it's like such a big thing. Like everyone's like do shout outs, it'll get you exposure and blah, blah. Which totally. It does. It's totally fair way to get exposure. I don't normally reach out and this is just, I don't know, explanatory of like how I am. Like I just, I don't, I can't feature somebody else's content on my feed if it doesn't fit.

Yep. Yeah. And yours is a different thing. Like you've actually got a lot of traction on your own. You don't have to do that. And your brand consistency is so important that you can't just do shout for shout.

But.

So you haven't. But this one is like, have you reached out to other people to ask for shout outs to you.

To where like let's say it was me and I was like, hey, I post a picture, one of your pictures or something else and I say go check out Alex Insta with Alex. Right. Or go check out women in coffee. So that it never really affects what happens on your Instagram page, it just affects what happens on everybody else's.

Yeah, I mean if people do that on their own, I thank them, but I don't really ask for that. But that's the. Comes back to like providing value. Right. So if I create a really good post post on my Insta with Alex account, it's sometimes just so happens that people want to share that with their followers too. So I think if you're sharing good quality content then it will get shared without you having to ask for it. But yeah, like on Men and coffee, I've definitely done shoutouts for shoutouts when somebody has approached me and as long as like the photo that they send me fits in with my theme and my focus, then I'm happy to do it. But yeah, so I would, I would just use that as like, you know, a standard for if you're going to do a shout out with somebody to just make sure that one. Their account relates to your account because you know, you obviously want to be sharing the same audience if you want to gain anything. Right. And that you know, your images are both complimentary on both their account and your account so that it's not like too stark of a contrast when you post someone else's stuff. So yeah, okay, that makes sense. I definitely think that shoutouts can work for sure. But actually here's another pro tip for shoutouts. Just because someone has a lot of followers does not mean they have an engaged audience.

Right.

So if someone's like, hey, you know, I'll do a shout out for you and it's only $20 and you're starting to think like, oh, this is like a great idea, blah, blah, blah. I mean, $20 is, you know, not that much. So it's not that big of a risk. But. But yeah, just because someone has a lot of followers doesn't mean they have a lot of engagement. And that means, you know, you won't get that much out of the shout out. Right. So always, always, always check how many likes they get on their pictures and how that ratio is to their follower count.

What ratio are you typically looking at for likes to follows?

So the engagement rate to the average engagement rate for like a good account would be 3 to 5%. And the way you calculate that is the amount of likes plus the amount of comments divided by their followers and then times 100 to get a percentage.

Okay, so do you just grab one of the. Not the most recent picture, but maybe one of the more recent or take an average of like, you know, three or four of the most recent pictures?

Yeah, so it fluctuates for everybody. But you know, if you like just if they have 1%, that's not that good. If they have like 10%, that's freaking amazing. So yeah, and, and then, but the thing with the engagement rate is it kind of changes if, like you only have 200 followers, your engagement rate's probably going to be like 35%. So yeah, applies more to when they have a larger follower account. But yeah, definitely a good little like middle school school math trick to kind of have in your back pocket?

Yep. Are there tools out there, and I'm asking this for personal curiosity, but are there tools out there that allow you to analyze your demographics so that you plug in, I don't know, men in coffee and you can find out, for instance, how many men versus women followers you have or geolocation of your followers or things like that.

Yeah, there's a lot of analytic softwares on the scene right now and they all kind of provide a little bit different, but I haven't seen many where they break it down that specific, like how many men versus women. The main one, the most popular one is Icono Square.

Yeah, I've heard of them.

So they'll give you, I'm pretty sure they do geographic and then obviously like, you know, best times to post your most engaged photo, like the most photo or the photo that got the most comments that kind of stuff. But yeah, there's always new ones coming onto the scene and some cost more than others. So I think you'd have to do a little bit of research to find the one that, you know, gathers the information that you're most interested in. But a lot of them just kind of do the basic stuff, so.

Nice. Okay. And then do you use any of them in particular or.

No, I use Iconosquare. It's now, it's now a paid feature, but it's literally like $2 a month or something like that. So it's super affordable and they've been around for a long time, so I kind of trust them the most. Another good one is square lovin dot com.

Square lovin. Like McLovin?

Yeah, no G. Square Lovin.

I like it.

Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, it's good to keep track of your analytics, but then all of it is kind of like situational, so it's like your best time to post is 5 o'. Clock. But if you've only posted at 5 o'. Clock. Of course, that's right. Right. So I feel like there's a lot of, like, research that needs to be done on your own to, like, really come up with the truth, if you will.

That makes sense. Now, are you.

With. With what you're doing right now? You're. You're teaching other people how to do this? I mean, you've got a Facebook mastermind group that, you know, I'm in and there's some awesome posts in there. And I know you've got a lot of students from your course. Are there any success stories of people that you've kind of taught how to do this that stick out? And these don't have to be like zero to a million success stories, but just some that you're like, wow, this person took this stuff. I taught her or him and just ran with it and had a lot of success.

Totally. Yeah. I have one woman, her name's MJ and she has an Etsy account and she sells handmade jewelry. And when I met her, she was just of kind, kind of like, oh, I've had this Instagram account and like, I've never, you know, it's never done anything for me. And so she joined my group. She bought an Instagram audit from me. She ended up enrolling in my course and was just always very, like, she was just always there in the group, like always commenting on everything. And she was just obviously like, she wanted to learn. So, you know, this is, you know, something you need to have if you want to succeed in anything. So she had the eagerness to learn, and now she's like, I can't. Like, I get. She gets too many orders. Like, she's like, I had to, like, stop taking orders because I couldn't handle the amount that I was getting.

Good problem to have.

Exactly. Right. So, yeah, super proud of her. Yeah, I know another guy. I'm not gonna say that, you know, he. I got him to this point, but he's like an acrobat, aerialist type guy.

Yeah, Acroyoga. I've heard of that.

He met Britney Spears through Instagram and did, like, a private session with her.

Okay, more details.

I mean, I'm totally not claiming that I.

No, but that. No, but this is just. This is cool. Like, this is an Instagram success story in general of stuff that can happen. So what details do you know about that?

I think he lives in Vegas, so that obviously had something to do with it, because I think Britney, you know, she either has a house there or.

Whatever, probably has a house everywhere.

So I think she either saw him in a show or something like that. They somehow met, and then she was like, I want to work with him. And then I remember him posting on Facebook about it, and everyone was so excited. And then he, like, posted like an hour later, and he was like, it kind of fell through. But then, like, two weeks later, he's like, okay, it's happening. And, yeah, so I guess he met her and they did, like, a private stretching session, which I'm not quite sure what that consists of. I still think that's pretty amazing.

That's really cool, just to be able to do that. From, as I said, like, in. Throughout history, we've never had the ability to connect with people like social media has given us, and all the different types of social media.

Gary Vaynerchuk was on stage speaking at an event I was at, like, a week and a half ago. And one of the things that he said, he actually said, I can sum up Gary's speech in, like, one or two words. Fucking Snapchat, if you ever watch any. Gary, that'll make sense.

Yeah, I love Gary Vee.

Right? But Snapchat. But then he also said this was poignant where he goes, social media is no longer social media. Social media is the Internet. Like, it is taken over. There's the social media and then there's the rest of the Internet. And I was like, that's a great point, because you think about how much time we spend on whether it's Instagram or Facebook or Snapchat or Twitter. Twitter or all of these things.

Those are some really cool stories. And you mentioned a second ago that you do Instagram audits.

Yeah, tell me what that's like. Hold on one second. My computer's gonna die, so I don't plug in.

Yeah, go ahead. No worries.

So as Alex is plugging in her computer. Oh. Talk to you folks. Make sure there's no dead air.

Sorry, I don't know if you'd be able to edit it out.

I can edit it out, but I might get lazy.

Okay, sorry. Your last question was about the Instagram audit. Yeah.

Because you mentioned something about that. So tell me what an Instagram audit is.

Yeah, so it's just one of the services I offer where I take a look at your account and I basically analyze it from head to toe. So, you know, I start with, like, even your profile picture, your bio, your call to actions, what kind of content you're uploading, your following, like, who you're following, who's following you. Like, and basically I do like a review on all of those things and I say, you know, you're doing this well or you're doing this not that well. And then I give you suggestions and actionable advice that you can take and implement right away to kind of make your account more efficient and kind of start working for you. So great.

Now, what do you charge people typically for that or does it vary?

Well, you know what I used to charge? I used to charge 130. I think 130 bucks. But I've since increased the rate after I created my course, which is infamous to influential because I realized I was charging less for like one on one work with me than I was for the product. I was just like, wait a second.

Yeah, something's not right here.

Yeah. So I have since upped it to 225 bucks, which is still a pretty good, you know, price for somebody who's, you know, trying to grow their business.

Absolutely. That's really. No, it's very reasonable.

Yeah. So that's where that sits now. Yeah. So, you know, some people, like, some people learn in different ways. Right. So my course is like a series of videos and workbooks. And some people find it hard to, like, take action on their own. So if I give them, like the specifics for their account, that works better for them. So that's why I offer, like a variety of things.

That's awesome. That's high touch. And that's kind of rare a lot of times, you know, these days. So I think that's really cool.

What about, let me turn the tables on you, and I'll see if there's any areas where I can help you out. As I mentioned earlier that I would ask you, what's a nut you're trying to crack in your own business?

Whether it's trying to get your Instagram accounts to do something or trying to grow your business in one way or another, whether it's a person you're trying to hire, a resource you're trying to get, you know, what's something that, you know? If you were sitting here talking to a podcast host who knows a lot of stuff and knows a lot of people, you would ask him, right?

Well, I feel like, you know, my business is kind of, like, rapidly growing. Like, ever since I came out with the course and stuff like that, I just got, like, a much bigger response than I was ever expecting. So I'm just kind of, like, always, like, running to, like, keep up with it. And I'm the type of person where, like, if somebody comments on my Facebook group, like, I need to respond. Yeah, let you know, it just go, so. So I'm kind of struggling with the idea of, like, hiring someone, but being, like, a control freak at the same time and just, like, you know, learning to, like, let go of certain parts of my business.

Yep.

So, you know, I don't like, you know, that email course, that took a lot of effort for me to write. Like, I feel like I can write okay. Like, I can, you know, keep a conversation going over email, but it takes me a lot of effort to sit down and, like, make that happen. So, you know, maybe one day I want to hire, like, a copywriter, but then that's that feeling. I'm, like, so scared. Well, like, is that person gonna sound like me? Are they going to be able to convey this topic the way that I would?

You know, there's a secret that I learned a while back. So copy is. I've done a lot of copywriting, both from my own businesses and for some of my clients. And you're absolutely right. I totally get the concern there. And a friend of mine who was giving me this advice, he said something a few years ago to me, and it totally flipped. It made everything easier. So you've heard of the 8020 principle, right? So for anybody who hasn't, the 8020 is, you know, you can do 20% of the input to get 80% of the results. But he said this is a variation on 80 20. He called it 10, 80, 10. So as it applies to copy he says, I'm going to do the first 10%, meaning I'm going to lay out the skeleton. If it's a sales. Let's just say it's a sales page or it's an info product. I'm going to do the first 10%, I'm going to lay out the outline of it, and I might even write the introduction and a couple of things just to give it my voice. And then I'm going to bring in the copywriter or the expert or whoever is going to fill in the blanks and they're going to fill in the next 80%, and they're going to do it to a good degree, but then I'm going to be the one who brings the final 10% home. And that is in the area of editing, etc. Now, the benefits of this is you get a product or, you know, you get a work product that you really like that you started and you finished, but you didn't have to go through all the other crap. But on top of that, it's usually cheaper, much cheaper to get that person to do the work because they're not starting from a blank page. So I love that. And I've used that, whether I'm writing sales copy or helping to create other products, to where just understanding the. That you're not totally giving up.

All the reins of control. You've got it in the beginning, you've got it in the end, and you let somebody else kind of take care of the middle. So I don't know if that helps you or any of the listeners.

Oh, absolutely. I like that.

Cool. But, yeah, it can definitely get you kind of over that. Over that hump. What about.

So right now, your primary business is obviously selling the course on Instagram marketing, and you've got monetization strategies that you use for women in coffee, men in coffee. Are there any other things that you're kind of trying to grow, for instance, and you don't have to go into too much detail because we're over the air, but has the. I know you're selling. You've got merchandise and T shirts on the back end of that. Have sales of that just been kind of okay? Is that something you're looking to grow? Is it. Has it been a challenge in any way?

Yeah, it's definitely not something that I've been pushing that much.

It's kind of free money, right? It comes in.

Yeah, exactly. And that's the, like, beauty of the whole print fulfillment company is that, you know, I don't hold Any inventory. And yeah, it's free money. I get, you know, 15 bucks profit or something like that whenever someone orders. Sure. It's not a lot of money, but it's nice. But I have recently been thinking about that, like, on my Men and coffee. You know, of course, I'm a business person, so I'm like, I need to build my list, and that's been a goal for a long time. So on my Manning Coffee site, actually, I think I saw you subscribe today.

Oh, yeah, I did.

My. So I have, like, a gallery or whatever. It was just something to get people to sign up, but. And this is kind of a little bit under wraps, but kind of not at the same time. So I had a plan to create a coffee table book for men and coffee. So I went out of my way and got everybody's permission from the photographers and the models and whatever to create a printed book of some of the best images from men in coffee. And I was super excited about it. And, like, obviously, I told all these people because I had to ask permission from them, so they're all like, when is it coming out? And then turns out, obviously, the resolution of Instagram images are not that hot.

It's not as good for.

So the way that I designed the book was, like, just questionable. And then I was gonna order it overseas, and it was like, you need to put down, like, a $3,000 deposit just to, like, see one copy.

And I was just like, oh, man.

Yeah. So I kind of put it on hold. But anyway, I was building my list so that I could potentially, you know, market that to them through email.

Sure.

However, I'm kind of put that on hold until I can figure out, you know, a way to work around that. So now I'm kind of like, maybe I should pull the list building and just promote, you know, the sales of the T shirts or something just to have, you know, more income coming in.

Yeah. So basically, how to kind of better manage and monetize your list and add value but also create income from it is a. Yeah, nice.

So it's constantly growing. So it's like, I can always market the book to them later when it happens. But. Yeah. So I have been thinking about, you know, upping my merchandise game.

Do you. Do you email your list very often on those?

No. So, like, when you sign up, you'll get, like, three emails over the next, like, couple weeks. That's just like, one, like, I offer you, like, 15% off or something. The other one tell you about women and coffee. And then I Ask you to submit images if you want to be on the site. And those are kind of like the only emails that I made. And then I just kind of left it and now it's just, just, you know, people sitting in my subscribers list.

Yeah. Have you, have you, have you found that list growth has been pretty decent? Like, are, is it, like, are you tracking that at all? Like how, you know.

Yeah, it's definitely not bad for men in coffee. It's much better on my Insta with Alex because I, you know, I'm trying to get people on my list.

Well, that makes sense too, because they're actually there to learn something on men and coffee. They're just there to kind of be like eye candy.

Yeah, exactly. So, yes, but as Instagram as a list building tool is great and that comes back to obviously having a good offer. So something for free usually is the best. And having that call to action in your bio and then also including a call to action every post that you make. So I'll post and I'll give a tip about Instagram marketing and it's very.

Specific and there's actual tips. And then at the end I say if you want more, if you want this or that, then click the link in my bio and it works great quite well. And I use link shortener, so I use bit ly to track how many clicks I get. So a lot of people just, you know, link to their website but they don't track it. So that's not a great way to see if what you're doing is working or not. So definitely recommend a link shortener for sure.

Right? Yeah. And I've also noticed how especially on Instigate with Alex, you treat most, if not all of your posts there as like almost like miniature blog posts. You put a lot of, you know, you put a lot of text in your bios and I'm like, I remember thinking that, like, oh, this is so smart because I'm actually reading what you're writing in there and it's just another way for a blog post as opposed to just throwing up a picture with a little caption.

Totally. So it's kind of, yeah, microblogging and Yeah, I don't know, it works for some people. Right? So some people will write, you know, know, one sentence and they'll get a lot of likes on their picture or whatever. But I think, you know, in the end, like, for me, of course I want likes on my picture, but really I want you to learn and I want you to trust me as the Expert. So giving you that information in my caption is, you know, the most important. So yeah, that's how I approach it and it seems to work. And that's nice to hear that you actually read it because I also question that and like, do people read, read this whole thing? Am I wasting my time? I don't know.

I think it's good especially because like you said, it's micro blogging because you're not putting up a 500 word post on there. You know, it's not long, but it's more than just. It's a lot longer than a tweet and it easy to digest and I kind of took mental note on that. Like if I, you know, for the Stiletto brand, we're not, you know, there's no need for a big long post there. But I mean I know a lot of people who are building out their personal brand and as a consultant or an expert, etcetera, I just see is a great way because it's got so much interaction on Instagram as it is and it doesn't just take a second for them to read the.

Little, what do you call it, the little comment section or the bio? Not the bio, but.

This has been really awesome. If, if people want to. Well, let me ask, I was gonna ask you this earlier. Do you have done for you services too? Do people hire you to manage their accounts or right now you're just selling the stuff?

I mean, selling the stuff. Yeah, I do. So here's the problem with being a one person kind of business is that there's not enough time in the day. So I used to take one on one clients and now I have to like turn people down because I want to focus on building the courses. So I have one course now, but I'm building a more comprehensive one for the future. So that's kind of where my focus is. But I do have an assistant on hand who's somebody that I actually went to school with and I trust her and she's done a really good job with her own Instagram. So her and I kind of have an agreement that if anyone wants to work with me, you know, I will guide her doing that. And you know, the thing is people want to hire me to work with me, so I feel bad like pushing them off to somebody else.

No, but this is good because it's like, you know, that friend of yours has obviously your skill set and other skill sets and maybe, I mean, she can still come to you and you guys can collaborate. Hey, this person needs this. What do you think? So they're kind of getting the you. They're getting the best of both worlds.

Yeah. And I think that, you know, I love to, like, so I would do, you know, the initial consult and, like, you know, talking to you about your brand and who it is you want to reach and what your goals are and that kind of stuff. And then, you know, relay that to my team and then I'm always there to oversee, like, and that's me being a control freak again. Like, I don't want her, even though I trust her, let her go and publish everything right away without me seeing it.

Convinced. So, yeah. So it is available. I will say off the bat that I think that I charge a little bit more than the average social media manager just because I think that my quality is more high quality. So there is that to consider. But yeah, I'm definitely open to anybody who's interested in that.

No, that's great. You know, that is something that's kind of cool as well, is, you know, the people who go through your course, you probably could. There is probably another business opportunity for you to say, listen, go through. My course certification these days is huge. Like, if I was you, I would create a certified Instagram marketing expert program, which means if you go through my course, pass a couple tests or whatever, and there's ways to do this that you get, in essence, an Alex Doobie seal of approval that you can use, although it's not called the Alex Duby seal of approval, but a certified Instagram marketing expert, and you could literally create that. There's nothing to. I don't know if you could use the word Instagram in there, but you might be able to use something like that to where people can. Now.

They'Ve been building out their brands and maybe they're not super duper experts at monetizing it, but if you start to get more business than you can kind of handle, you're training people to kind of come work for you and, you know, build up their resume and even create an income that way.

Right? Yeah, no, that's an awesome idea.

So that's what this show's all about. Sizzling hot business ideas guaranteed to make you fat profits. I don't know if you saw my tagline. That was my just reading the podcast tagline.

It's so funny. When you first contacted me, I like, tell my boyfriend, I'm like, someone with a podcast called Bacon Wrap Business wants to interview me. And he's like, that's awesome.

Yeah. The podcast name itself has gotten quite A bit of attention just for no other reason than they're like, you had me at bacon. I don't care what it's about. I'm in. I'm in. Okay, so we are kind of coming to the end of the podcast here. So this has truly been enlightening and I guarantee you that my listeners are going to love this because I have not covered it before. A and it is still kind of the wild west out there with marketers trying to figure out Instagram and figure out how to do it, especially because it's frustrating because it's not a quick.

It's not just a pull the trigger and boom, here comes the money. So it takes more finesse, and I think you've done a great job at finessing the process and then codifying it in a way that other people can learn from you. So let's tell some folks where they can go get on your.

Get more knowledge from you, whether it's your email course or your, you know, just. Actually what you should do is just buy her infamous to influential course because obviously you've heard some good stuff here and I think we're just scratching the surface. So where can I go to get more Cool.

Yeah, obviously my website is just AlexTuby.com so you can find pretty much everything there. If you want to follow me on Instagram, it's instagram.com instawithalex and then the other main place where I share like a lot of content and free value is my Instagram group on Facebook. So that's just Instagram marketing Mastermind. So I think if you just type that in in Facebook, it should come up again. You can find that on my website and stuff too. So, yeah. And then there's men in coffee, women in coffee. Every everywhere I am, I've kind of linked everything together. So, you know, just go to my website and you'll find everything you need.

Yeah, that's. That's awesome. So, guys, take a look at this. I will tell you the people who thought that, well, Instagram's not for me. I think you're wrong. There's many so, so much attention and engagement going on Instagram. One of the most frustrating things is you can't put links inside your little posts. So it drives marketers that I know batshit crazy, including me. But that just means that once more, it's a finesse game. Your one link in your bio has to be spot on and you've got to create valuable content that makes people want to go there. So it does make you up your game. But I have found from the people that I know who are just killing it with Instagram, they're having a ton of success because of that, because.

It'S not as spammy and it's not a place where real spammy marketers are going to last for very long. So if you're not and you've got quality stuff, I think it's a great opportunity for you to go after. I know I'm going after it in a very big way. And I've started to see more and more people do it. I've seen multiple people out there with Instagram, Instagram courses and experts. I've probably read 50 to 100 different blog posts on this stuff. But I reached out to Alex because I followed her for at least the past couple months at minimum, and I can tell that she knows what she's doing. She's got a good grasp on this. She's got proof of concept and both in her own personal brand, Insta with Alex, which you'll notice is awesome, but then her other ones, she's got a good variety of strategies out there and she's not teaching you how to hack the system and to use all these automated tools, which kind of depresses me because I like hacking things. But it also reminds me that if you're going to build a real community of folks that.

Are going to be loyal to your brand, whether it's your personal brand or a product brand or just an interest that can feed other brands, then you got to put the effort in. And once you know how to do it, it's not rocket science, but as I mentioned, it takes a little bit of finesse. So with that being said, go check out Alex's stuff. She's been nice enough to spend an hour with us on the phone here today, and you guys have been awesome to stick around and listen to me pick Alex's brain and figure this stuff out for myself and for your benefit. So, Alex, once more, thank you so much for being a guest on the show.

Yeah, thank you. I loved it. It was fun.

Absolutely. All right, guys, the one big way you can pay me back is besides sending me a little paper bag full of hundred dollar bills for this episode, is go to itunes and review this puppy. Because not only will I read every single one of them, but.

It'Ll help me hack the itunes standings. Because every review I get helps bolster this already successful show up the ratings even further. And as always, if you want to get my attention, send me an email to askbradbaconrappedbusiness.com as well as send me an email with a topic you'd like to hear me cover or a question you've got Once more, ask bradakenratbusiness.com and of course, this episode is brought to you by stiletto coffee.com so you can go check that out as well. Alex, once more, thanks a million million. And we will talk to everybody else on the next episodal of Bacon Wrap Business.