Lead Craft and Messenger Bots with Scott Oldford

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All right, welcome back to Bacon Wrap business. This is Brad Costanzo and I am welcoming everybody who has been a subscriber for mine for the past three years. We just passed our three year anniversary about a week ago and I can't believe how fast time has flown. And in that time I've gotten a chance to chat and speak with a lot of just amazing entrepreneurs and thought leaders and business people and some people who don't even fit in that box. And this is for those of you who are just tuning in once more. My name is Brad and this is my platform for doing exactly that. I get to have conversations with people who are doing really kick ass things that I'm excited about and I have all authentic curiosity about. So I get to reach out to them and chat with them and find out, you know, what is working and what's not and what they're excited about. And I love to the fact that I get to let you eavesdrop on these conversations and that's really what this show is all about, is you learning while I'm learning as well. So today's episode is with a guy that I had been paying attention to here for a little while and I was watching some of the stuff that he was putting out and on, especially on Facebook and I started what really got my attention is I started seeing him talk about messenger bots and I don't know if you're familiar with that, but if you're not, you will be today. And Scott Oldford, who's joining me here today, go ahead and say hi, Scott.

What's up? Brad, awesome to be here.

Yeah, you too. Scott is the founder and CEO of a company called Leadcraft and he's also partners in a company called Bots for Business. And I've just been impressed with a lot of the things that I've seen. And on a previous episode I was talking to a guest and he was saying one of the most exciting things that he's seen in the world of lead generation really is these messenger bots. And it's kind of like semi AI style stuff and we're going to dive into that. But I want to welcome Scott to the show, we're gonna find out a little bit more about what Scott does and then stay, you know, stay on the episode because we're going to dive into not only about why bots, how bots work, but I've recently built a couple of messenger bots to generate leads for some of the clients that I'm working with. And I'll bring up what I'm doing and I'll see if I can get Scott's feedback. You cool with that, Scott?

Of course, brother. That sounds like fun.

Awesome. Let's do it. So, man, tell me a little bit about yourself, what Leadcraft is and what you typically do for your clients.

Yeah, for sure. Well, you know, I've been, I've been an entrepreneur for, since I was literally seven, selling eggs on my parents acreage. And by the time I was, you know, 11 or 12, I was doing honestly a lot of this online marketing stuff by mistake. And this was like, you know, this is like early 2000s, mid 2000s. So it was a very different world than it is today.

And so from there, you know, by the time I was 16, I had, you know, all kinds of people working for me all over the world. And it was honestly a little bit, you know, a little bit of a surreal experience, brought me to being 21. And by then I had three failures in a row, almost three quarters of a million dollars in debt. But I had, I had lots of, you know, I had lots of online marketing experience, lots of entrepreneur experience. I, you know, ran SaaS based companies, I had fitness companies, you know, you name it, I've tried it. So through many of the different things over the last five years or so, I really kind of rebuilt from ground zero. What I do today is I help entrepreneurs that are below seven figures, typically between 60k to half a million, grow their business, utilizing online lead generation and very, very high growth tactics and strategies to get them to seven figures. I've grown four different businesses to a million in less than 12 months. My own businesses and dozens of others of people I work with. But for the most part, our entire business model is based on training. So I don't take on like, I don't have clients per se in terms of, like, I don't do their marketing for them or anything like that. We're fully, you know, more on the educational side and helping entrepreneurs figure out their own stuff and get their own lead generation working. And then of course, allowing them to, you know, kind of graduate past the hustle, you know, the hustle stage. Which is like the first 100k and then graduate past what I call the six figure hamster wheel, so that you can actually have a sustainable and scalable business. So that's what I do.

Nice. I like it. So you're not working with clients, but you are educating Your, in essence is an education based thing. And that's great now.

Yeah.

What have you found? A lot of us. And I know over the past three years I've covered the concept of Facebook advertising for leads a lot. And I mean, that's kind of the, you know, for the past several years it's been the hottest thing and I know it's still pretty hot. Are there other avenues that.

You also specialize in? You're really excited about that.

Yeah, I mean, you know, listen, I mean, at the end of the day, I always approach things from a risk mitigation perspective. And so, you know, I'm always recommending to people. Listen, you know, there's organic, there's partner, and there's paid traffic. Is Facebook the holy grail? I know. Not. Not at all. You know, can it be used for very, very effectively generation? Of course it can be. But you know, inside of what we do, you know, we have a partner program that, you know, we have, you know, almost 300 affiliates now. So that. So that's a really, really good source. I have a pretty intensive PR strategy that is active and working quite well. So that's another stream about to use. Utilize YouTube and, you know, organic and all these different types of things. So myself, you know, I utilize, I try to, I try to utilize at least half a dozen different sources. And we, you know, we do teach more than just Facebook because Facebook's not for everybody by any stretch of imagination. It's for most. I will say that. And it still works for most. But one of the biggest things that we teach and what we talk about, and I don't get it, because we're in like, we're in like 2017 and it's as if everyone forgot about the fact that like, you know, we're selling to human beings. Right. And so, so we have all this competition. We've gone from 3 million advertisers to 5 million on Facebook in the last 14 months.

Wow.

You know, we have the gold. More goldfish mentality than we've ever had. Attention is the most difficult. You know, attention is the most sought after currency in the world right now.

Yeah.

And. And I think the biggest thing that, you know, really allows our customers to become successful is the fact that they actually are thinking about. And what we teach is, you know, awareness and understanding of buyer awareness and the fact that not everyone's ready to buy today. And if you really want to build a sustainable business, you get leads that are not ready to buy today, but they're ready to buy, you know, two weeks from now, two months from now, six months from now. And you nurture them because those are the, you know, quote unquote cheapest leads. Easiest way to build your audience, easier way, easiest way to future proof. And so what we end up kind of doing is help people implement this methodology we call the SSF method.

Ssf.

Ssf. I really wish I would have named it something different like two and a half years ago. Here, you know, here I am. There's been over a hundred thousand. Yeah, over a hundred thousand entrepreneurs have been, you know, indoctrinated to that now. So I can't change it anymore.

What's that stand for?

Sidewalk? Slow lane. Fast lane.

Okay.

And so really what it says is that, you know, somebody in the sidewalk, they might be part of your demographic, geographic, behavioral profile, but they don't really know that they have a pain. So your job is to make a pain relevant to them. And then in the slow lane, that's in the buyer research mode. That's when somebody's looking for a mechanism, a method, a process, and they're looking for someone to look up to, right? So you become the authority, the person they know like, or trust. And then finally, in the solution oriented, the fast lane, that's when someone's like, all right, you know what? I know the pain. I understand this. I trust you. Where's the buy button? And, like, what does my life look like afterwards? And the problem is everybody goes to that fast lane without. And they skip the sidewalk and slow lane.

And there's fewer people in the fast lane, too. There's a lot fewer.

Only 2%, right? Like less than 2%. So the problem, really, the overall problem is this. It's not the fact that that doesn't work, because, I mean, you know, direct marketing has taught us that that works. But majority of business owners that are not making over a million dollars don't have the, you know, the marketing budget to be able to do that. And I basically engineered this because I utilize online marketing the traditional way. And I was like, literally, I had $13,000 on my girlfriend's credit card to spend the basic. Grow my company, okay? I was like, I can't do what everyone else does because the leads are gonna be too expensive. So, you know, for the most part. And the problem is majority people teaching online marketing are utilizing these huge budgets. So I was like, it was almost like I kind of reverse engineered my own situation. Then I was like, huh, this is why majority of people that are not making a million bucks can't get online marketing working for them. Because everyone teaching, and nothing against anybody teaching them. It just so happens that that's what happened. And so it's a little bit of different situation now because we spend six figures a month every single month on advertising. So it's very different for us as a company. But the typical person that doesn't have, you know, 25 grand a month plus to be able to spend on ads, it's difficult for them.

Absolutely. So give me an example of an ssf. I don't know if you call them an SSF campaign or if you just methodology. Yeah, give an example of that. So let's say that the company is a service based company, right? They provide a valuable service to, to their market.

Give me an example of how SSF works in real life. And anything if you want to actually get real, you can do redacted names or whatever, but real.

Yeah. So I mean, this Funnel's done in 13 months. I think this is, it's done over 4 million for us, thus. So we have a couple of different guides on the front end, right? So we might have like a Facebook guide, like, you know, the best way to do face, blah, blah, blah. Or like, you know, we have one guide actually got covered in digital marketers being a really, really good lead magnet and Facebook ad, which was kind of cool to get props from them.

And so essentially that one was how do you always get 50% conversion rates on your landing pages? Because most people don't know how to develop a landing page to save their life.

So that's a sidewalk, right? So we peak someone's interest. So it could be a guide, it could be a quiz, could be a short video, something like that. Very low commitment, very high value. And we're just kind of showing we're kind of peaking their interest a little bit. Then after that you'd have slow lane, which is like a challenge or a video series or an ebook, something that like takes, you know, somewhere between 10 to 30 minutes at each session in order for someone to go through. So it does 10 to 30 minutes in each sitting, right? So in total it'll typically be more than, you know, an hour or so of actual content for someone to be able to kind of go through and digest and so on. And so forth. Now keep in mind, people might say in your slow lane for, you know, six months. And that's the beautiful thing here, we're pulling people instead of pushing them. Yeah, which, which, which will overall allow people to trust you more. You have far more advocates, you don't feel pushy and salesy and you don't have to be scarcity driven. And then like the fast lane would say be a webinar. So we do, we do guides to our five day challenge to a webinar to our sale. Right. And so that's our, you know, that's one of our sidewalk, you know, SSF method funnels. I mean, you know, some people do a quiz to an ebook to video sales letter. It all depends on what you're selling, how costly it is, who your audience is. Lots of stuff like this.

Nice. Okay, cool. So on that second side of the challenge, and I like this because this is something that I'm familiar with, but I want to dive down deeper a little bit. You said it, it takes them a little bit more time to go through and it's a little more engaging and it could be a quiz, it could be a challenge. So are you talking about just like a really long multi question deep dive that kind of analyzes what they're doing, et cetera? Give me a more concrete example there.

That would be like, you know, eight to 10 questions. It's more of like a fun quiz versus a, you know, you know, I'll be honest with you. Yeah, B2B. You don't want to use a quiz.

No, exactly.

B2C. You know what I mean? We have one person, you know, most, most people have 60, 70% conversion rates. If they're B2C with a quiz. B2B quizzes, I mean, you know, they're great in the slow lane in my opinion, but somebody needs to have some level of buy in because it's like, why am I giving all this information to somebody I don't know?

Exactly, Exactly.

What do I get out of it? You know what I mean?

Well, one of the things that made me think about that is I've got a client we were talking about offline. They're in the real estate investment services. So they, they don't coach people on how to be successful. They just actually perform a service for real estate investors and they recently developed, I think it was like too much. Like it was a hundred question assessment. Like it was 10. It's, it was actually really cool and useful, but I couldn't even go through it and I was trying to go through it and go, okay, is this going to be useful in marketing? But it was like, alright, let's look at 10 different areas of your business and let me ask you 10 different questions each, and it will automatically grade you on each area. I was like, problem is now, now.

If they charge $197 for that, that would be amazing right now.

Exactly. And that's exactly what I was saying. You can't give this away as a lead magnet. Nobody's going to go through 100 questions for free. So.

Yeah, exactly. And I think that that's, you know, I think that's a big, A big thing that most people think about is like, what is the commitment level someone in your industry and in your niche? You know, like, if you're going for someone that, you know. Again, I'm making a little bit of a generalization, but I got a lot of data back this up. You know, the more money somebody has, the more somebody's worth, the less time they're willing to spend.

On something. Right. Just like business owners, if you're trying to get in front of somebody that's at a million dollars, they're a producer, not a consumer. So are you going to be able to get them on a webinar? No. You want to get them, hey, listen, here is the issue. Here's your problem. Here is, you know, here's your problem. Here's the vision, here's the gap, here's how I can help. Boom. Yeah, right. You know, it's so different versus somebody that's, you know, making, you know, five grand a month.

It's funny, two important points you just brought up. I love that because I was talking. I don't know if this was on a podcast or just another conversation I was having the other day, which is, yeah, for most people, if they've got, if they've got extra money, they probably don't have extra time because if they're successful, you know, their time is at a premium. They. If they don't have a lot of money, they got all the time in the world because they're probably doing much.

Yeah, you look at these epic, like, launch funnels, you know, the whole kind of Jeff Walker thing, and I'm just like, I can't. I was, I was looking at one of these the other day and, and it was a buddy of mine, and he sent me over the link and the first video was 47 minutes long, and there's four videos and they're all like 40 minutes long. And I'm Just like, dude, like, what the heck? Like, why would somebody listen to, like, why? Like, I. You aren't interesting enough. Like, I'm sorry, but you are just not into like, you know what, stick Elon Musk up there or like, you know, whoever.

I don't even know if I want to listen to elon musk for 47.

Like, nobody's going to care about that much. That much. And it's really, you know, it's unfortunate because his launch didn't go that well. And it's because the fact that like, you know, eight minute video people can handle but like 47 minutes, come on, we're living in 2017.

Yep. Let's cut to the chase.

The.

Do you. Do you follow? I mean, I think this is a relatively standard. The rest of my audience might not. But do you use heavy use of retargeting in this? So you get them in on one and then you're bringing them back Both.

That's our entire. Yeah, our entire strategy is based on that. I mean, I spend more money on retargeting and audience building awareness than I do on lead generation.

Absolutely. What are some of the ways you build awareness besides just. Or do you build awareness besides just a valuable bribe? Like, here's an ebook, here's a super.

Oh, no, I retarget. You know, it's kind of like, you know, somebody gets herpes after they go into my funnel. You know what I mean?

They can't get rid of me.

Yeah, they just can't get rid of me. Outside of them going like, unfollow block, Scott, see you later. You know, I will follow them until the ends of the earth. Right. And so, you know, from that side, from an awareness side, I do everything from sharing my PR articles with people to, to sharing, you know, any, any Facebook post that does well on my personal page, I'll go and like, I'll put that into an evergreen video content. You small, three, four, five minute videos. None of this stuff got any CTAs. Yeah, none of it. There's no buy now on anything.

No, it's awareness.

Like, I just want you, you know, in my opinion, from an awareness perspective when it comes to lead generation and business growth, I want you to remember me and my company and that's it, right? Like I'm doing that. I'm doing the Nike play. I'm not, I'm not, you know, I'm. I'm in this long term, right? Like I'm looking five years, not 60 days or 30 days or 21 days. I think that's the biggest problem is a lot of people that, you know, they get into this and all they care about is lead generation and the sales aspect. Short term cash, you know. Yeah, exactly. Right. And I mean, you kind of got to look at the longer term approach. And I mean, you know, I always, you know, the first five months of this business, we made half a million dollars. In 2017, or, sorry, 2016, we made almost 3 million. And this year between the businesses, I mean, you know, I mean, honestly, it depends on. We'll be at a million dollars a month by October, I think.

Nice.

In terms of revenue, so somewhere between 7 to 9 million.

And that's predominantly from training courses, right?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's all.

I mean, I do. Yeah, exactly. I mean, like, you know, about 10% of that, I take 10 people on to mentor them and charge them about 100 grand a pop. But outside of that, you know, pretty much all my revenue is derived from, from the training side of things.

What do they get for 100 grand?

Just access to me.

Nice.

Yeah. And I mean, it's cool. Like of all the. Of the last 11 people, 10 have gotten their money back in the first 30 days.

That's beautiful.

Like they're the entire investment. Yeah. Cuz like, I get it. I mean, you know, the problem is Mo, I mean, here's the deal. Like, majority of people I work with are at, you know, in the mentorship is like three quarters of a million to 2 million. And most of these guys, I mean, listen, they got so much potential, they just simply, they don't know what they don't know. And I mean, you know, and the reason I'm in this business because I'm in this business because it's like, you know, I went three quarters of a million dollars in debt not because I was an idiot, but no one gives you the rule book. And it's like, here you go, you know, go for it. It's right. It's like you're, you're, you're an opportunist. Like I believe every entrepreneur is an opportunist, Right. You see an opportunity and you kind of leap, right? And so you're an opportunist. Nobody gives you the finance training or the operations training or the marketing or the sales or the customer service. So you're winging it all and you're looking around scared shitless. And you look at everybody else and you're like, oh man, they got their shit together and when in reality they down. Yeah, right.

So few People do.

I mean, even the people that do. I mean, even. No, I don't think anybody, Anyone that's smart doesn't have their shit together. Yeah. Because they're, they're, they're like testing their own boundaries constantly. Right. And so, so what I want to do is you have so many business owners, you know, I think anybody can get to 100k like, really quickly. You know what I mean? Like, I really, I, like, I've helped a lot of people get to 100k very, very, very, very quickly. The only thing that's gonna stop you from 100k is your mind. Right. Your mindset's the only thing. Right. So. Or you're lazy, which is mindset. Yeah, exactly. But once you get there, I want to create, you know, my goal in the next three years is create the E Learning company to help entrepreneurs that are at the 100k to half a million get the seven figures very quickly. Because, like, business really only starts when you're at seven figures. Like, you're just like a little scrappy. Not barely. Not in my mind. You're not an entrepreneur unless you're doing a quarter million a year. No offense to anybody listening, but, but, you know, quite literally, you're pretty much broke if you're not doing a quarter million a year. Like, you're really.

Because you're probably also. I mean, with, with some exceptions, you're not keeping much of that money and it's going back into your company. You got a little company.

Yeah. Well, you got two things that either you're putting it back into the company or number two, you're like a coach or a consultant. You're basically like, you're slowly burning out because you have no leverage.

Yep.

So. So that's why I always talk about, you know, people are on the six figure hamster wheel doing the 100k or 200k or 300k or 400k or whatever it may be. But true, like, freedom and impact definitely does not happen until like seven figures. Yeah. And of course there will be. Lots of people are like, oh, no, I'm impacting everything else. And listen, it's not the fact that you can't, like, anybody can impact anyone. Okay. But it's like, how much leverage do you have with that impact and how much are you, like, just leaving out because you're afraid to look yourself in the mirror and be like, you know what? I can do better than this.

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. So I want to, I want to take this moment to kind of Transition over to the thing that originally kind of got me interested in talking to you, which was, which was a cool like differentiator, tip of the spear, which is the bots. Right. Everybody else, everybody talks about lead generation. So it becomes somewhat of a commodity unless you're able to really kind of stand out. And you know, the whole concept of bots definitely stands out. And I've recently deployed some of these for, or at least for one of my clients. It's live, I've played around with it. But this is also one of these things. And I'll have you explain a little bit more detail for my audience exactly what this is so that they kind of got a framework. But it's also something you don't really want to just throw it out there and start testing willy nilly. Because you can actually damage your brand if you make it.

Oh yeah.

If you act like an idiot with it. Because there's you almost kid gloves. Right. So.

Yeah, well, I mean, I think, you know, I've seen some marketers kind of ruin themselves with this. Oh, just right from the get go. Because they're treating it like email.

Yep.

And so explain what it is first.

So that my audience kind of has a good grasp.

Yeah, sure. Yeah, for sure. So really, at the end of the day, you know, you look at email, email is very kind of one sided. You send an email class, there's no real interaction. So what if you could have an email? And then in the email it's like, hey, you know, are you actually interested in this? And then you say yes. And it's like, okay, cool. Now where are you two in your business right now? Where are you two? Or you know, whatever it may be. So a Messenger bot, essentially it lives inside of. In this case, what we're gonna be talking about today is Facebook messenger bots. Now there's Twitter bots, there's Instagram bots, there's SMS bots, or all kinds of different bots. Right. But what we're really talking about is, is what is called a natural language sequence that allows you to engage, qualify and increase your relevancy with somebody that is a lead. And this happens directly inside of the Facebook Messenger. Right. So we got 1.3 billion people sign up to Facebook Messenger. So you already got a platform. You don't have to like try to get people onto a new platform or anything like that. And within this, we're able to qualify your leads better, we're able to be more relevant to them, we're able to get higher open rates People typically open their Facebook messenger messages within an hour versus, you know, days of email. I haven't checked my email in six weeks. You know what I mean? Like, I don't, I just don't check email. Like my team does that. And for the most part, if someone wants to get to me, it's way easier to get to me via Facebook Messenger. It might still take a week, but it's faster. You know, it'll actually come to me versus my team.

Yeah.

And so from that end, it's much easier to get someone's attention and you're actually being relevant to them and being able to know, kind of understand who's who and you know, you can tag people easily. You can say, when the bot comes in, everyone has buckets in their business and everyone has kind of levels of awareness in their business. When someone comes in my business, we have three buckets. Never use online marketing. Using it and kind of tinkering with it, but it's not really working. And then you're using it, but you want to increase, you kind of want to get the edge. Yeah. Three different pitches for those three different people.

If I use a Messenger bot, I instantly can kind of nail down exactly what message I need to be talking about versus everything else. And then secondarily inside of my business, I need to treat someone that's making less than 10 grand versus different than someone that is making over 10 grand. Right. So all these kind of different changes and every single one of our businesses have these. And messenger bots allow us in real time to almost have a conversation with people, get to understand who they are and then deliver the lead magnet or the offer that's actually relevant to them versus email where it's like, all right, I'm just gonna blast out and you know, you can do some of this in email where it's like, oh, click the link that makes the most sense, but like it's kind of broken and it really doesn't work.

Yeah, exactly. So let me explain and this will also help for the audience to explain the couple things that I've started to do and we can use this as a real life case study is we'll talk about it just like, alright, here I am, I've dipped my toes in the water, I'm liking what I'm seeing. I also want to know, I got a couple really specific questions, but I also want to know some of the things to, you know, to avoid doing as opposed to, you know, some best practices and some, some worst practices. But so let me explain this. So there's, there's two bots that I've set up. One of them is not even published yet. That's for one of my more celebrity clients to where it's, it's more so about.

Delivering. It's almost like a. First of all, are you familiar with the company Persona?

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. So I found the Internet. Is that the Internet company?

Yeah. So. Well they started doing, I don't even know how big they are but they, they, I found them through Chat Fuel. Chat Fuel is one of the bots that I use. I use manychat and I saw that they were doing this for celebrities where it's like Christina Milian, Casey Neistat, several of these other people. It's like experience them. So click here, find out more about Casey. Find out about this. And you know, absolutely, it's a bot. It's not trying to, it's not trying to replicate natural language that much. It's a little cute. But you, right from the get go, you know, it's sure you know what it is. And that's not even the one that's more novelty that I'm playing around with. Here's the one that we're actually generating leads as of just this past week. So I mentioned the real estate services company and they're looking to mainly work with active real estate investors. And there's a lot of competition out there on Facebook, especially in this niche. And everybody's got a new ebook and everybody's got a webinar to join and everybody's got that. So what we did here is they run a lot of direct mail for their clients. That's just one of the services they do. So I have a picture. We set up the bot, it's a page with the client's name and he's holding up a kind of a blurred out postcard and it says this postcard, I'm making this, I'm paraphrasing here, this postcard traditionally gets two to four times the response rate than any other thing we've mailed. It's yours for free. Just comment Postcard in the comments. Right. So we're running an encouragement post for this and so far, and this is just really the past few days it's doing like I'm blown away by how many people are commenting. Postcard, postcard, postcard.

Alright.

Like I'm looking at it here. We've got 103 comments. Like cool.

Yep. So 103 leads.

Yeah. So now it follows up and I'll when we get offline, if you're interested, I'll even send you this. What you know, what we're doing. So it'll say, hey, Scott, you just commented on the post, they're interested in this. Just reply postcard here and I'll send it to you at this point. And this is also, I could use your advice. I'm not necessarily telling them yet that, hey, this is automated. But I say, great before I shoot it over. Super quick question. Are you an active real estate investor now? And I give them those quick replies.

Yeah.

Yes or no? Yes.

Yeah, cool.

You use indirect mail. Yes or no. And I, and I am using, I'm using many chat on this and I'm tagging them.

Right.

So they're going through. It's like at the end, at the end of the sequence, which is not super long, it's maybe like five messages, it just says, great, here's a link to the postcard. Go check it out, I think you'll like it. And there's some other information on there.

Right.

So that's. It's a very basic. But it's so far being effective.

Right? Yep.

Cool.

Yep.

What I love about this, love about it, and I knew this in inherently going in, but then now as I'm able to see it, because I haven't really handed over the reins to the company to manage this part, I'm doing it, which is you really can go in and see what Kevin here said and you can follow his little path and then if nothing's happened, I can broadcast out to all of them or I can just go in there at any point, say, hey, Kevin, just checking in. Like real life, it's me, hey, just checking in. If you got that. And I can engage in conversations.

And I love, I love that aspect because you can go broad and then you can go personal.

Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, it's amazing from that perspective. Yeah, totally.

One of the things I don't like and I don't know if you found a solution to this. Manychat said they're coming out with the zapier integration soon. But if somebody comes into my world, Right. And it's Kevin, for instance, if he goes and ops in later to what I say or he buys what I have, is there a way to reverse tag them? Like to remove them from your prospect sequence out of a chat yet?

Not at this moment. Yeah. Okay.

So it's one of the limitations. And it's.

Yeah, I mean, and yeah, I mean they're pretty close on that. I Mean, it's kind of like we're still in the early adopter stage. Right. So that means that, you know, the technology is not perfect and there's definitely like, you know, there's definitely things that, you know, work and that doesn't work. I mean, what you just talked about in terms of like allowing, you know, the comment I'm in really, really great way. Especially if you don't have a whole lot of ad budget. Yep. Now, I've yet to see that perform better than a regular ad.

At scale.

When you say like a regular ad to like.

Yeah. So here's the way that I.

And I am testing, by the, by the way, just real quick. I am testing those side by side. One goes straight to the opt in page and one goes into the messenger bot. So keep going. I'm interested in this.

Right. So what I enjoy and what I've seen at scale because those engagement ones are really good at low. Like if you're, if you're listening to this and you don't have a big budget, it's amazing. Right. You can get 100, 200, 3 or 4, 500 leads for really cheap. Because what it does is every single time someone comments, I'm in. Facebook keeps increasing the engagement up. It shows your friends and shows you like new audiences. Okay. For pretty much free and very kind of low cost and engagement. But here's the problem. I want to get a pixel, I want to get the messenger and I want to get the email address. Messenger bots are not a replacement for email.

Right.

And so one way or another, I want to get the pixel so I can retarget them and I know who they are because now I can go in and I can retarget everyone that's part of my messenger bot, but I can't, I can't retarget them individually, which is useless. You know, I mean, like, I don't know where the buyer intent is to. I don't know anything. Right. All I know is they've engaged with me at some level.

Yep.

So it's almost like a website visitor versus oh, I know that person's actually going to buy. So what I like to do is a regular lead generation. And then on the third thank you page, one of two options. Either one, give them the lead magnet via the messenger bot, which gets about a 50 to 70% of people will actually do that there or use that as a content upgrade right there in line being like, hey, that other things in your email. But if you want this other really cool thing, click Here and get it delivered by messenger. Nice. What that does is it allows me to do a proper conversion tracking. Okay. And it allows me to optimize. Because the problem is if you do ppe, which is page post engagement, which is what you just spoke about, you have no ability to optimize. And if you do the JSON ad, which is another. And again, I realize I'm talking some.

And we'll include. And Brad, if you're cool with this, we got an awesome like 21 page guide that goes through all this stuff that we can link in the show notes and just so you understand everything that's there and how to use it and all those different types of things. So the problem is right now, because we are in the early stage, it's best to use a regular conversion, get the email address and then use this as an engagement tactic and a qualification tactic versus just using it solely. Because here's the other thing. We don't know how Facebook is going to evolve this platform and if we don't have the email address, we are screwed.

We're doing all this work for nothing. Yeah. Right now. And I love that. That's, that's really, really helpful for me. The.

The, the thing I'm doing right now and I was even wondering about this because track 1 is straight to an opt in page. Very marketing 101, part 2 is get them into the conversation. And I was thinking, okay, when they request the actual postcard because I've got them on the messenger, should I send them to the opt in page or should I send them to just the actual thank you page? Well, right now I'm sending them to the opt in page. So I may lose some people, but I'm gaining the ones who are right. So it's going from Facebook comment to Facebook messenger to opt in page.

Which is fine. Which is fine.

The people who opt in enough, they're probably pretty hot leads because they've taken several, they've jumped through several hoops.

Oh yeah, yeah, they definitely done some hoops on that one. And I mean, you know, I think it's really, really. Yeah. I mean I think it's important still to ensure that we have that email address there. But I mean, you know, listen, I mean, you know, here's a really, really, really kind of cool thing. So many cool ways to do messenger bots. So one of the webinars I did about two months ago now, yeah. End of April, it was how to basically do high ticket selling. Right. So basically how to generate leads for high ticket Sales and you know, like, we do a really good job at high ticket selling. We have a. This month so far, our close rate on our high ticket 12 to 15K program was 93%. Damn. Yeah, we're really good not just at the sales aspect, but getting really, really hot qualified leads that are pre doctrinated, all these different types of things.

Yeah, so tell me about that.

So, so we got 1100 people signed up for. So I won't, I won't go into the high ticket selling today that if you want that we can book. I have a guide that's about 21 pages long that shows exactly how all that works.

Yeah, shoot it over to me. I'd love to see it.

Yeah, I'll send that over. So then I did a webinar. We have that. I went through this content before I turned it into a guide. So we had 11 or 11 or 1200 people sign up. Now the interesting thing is right now I'm getting more people signing up via my bot than my email list to my webinars. Okay. Yeah. And like, it's nowhere near. I mean, like, I think my messenger bot is only 4,000 people. My email list is about 40,000. Okay. So 10% of the size. Very potent. Yeah, very, very potent. Okay, so then, now here was the cool thing, the webinar. And this, I've never, never done this before on the webinar. My call to action was, listen, right now, I have no idea who you are. I have idea, no, no idea how much money you're making. I have no idea what your LTV of your client is. I, if I can pitch you, you know, I can pitch you two or three things. But today I know nothing about you. So here's what I'm gonna do. We have this really cool little qualification thing and you're just gonna click the link and it's gonna go to my, me or my team. We're gonna ask you a couple of questions. And then if we fit based on what you say, you know, based on where you're to, we're gonna recommend how we can help you the most. Now that may be our, you know, do it yourself program. That may be our assistant program. Or that may be you're done with your program. Okay. That one webinar closed over $400,000 of sales in two weeks.

Nice.

Which is by far the most I've ever made on a webinar in my entire life outside of a launch.

That's fantastic.

And all because of a messenger bot. Did all the qualifications.

So Let me, let me see. Let me reiterate that to make sure I got it. So you did the webinar and the call to action was not to send them to an order form. No, it was sent. And you, I'm. I'm guessing you gave them a specific, like a M. Me.

Yeah, it was a specific URL. Yeah, exactly. That had like this kind of little bit of a quantity qualifier set up. And then basically it start going to my team. And so I had, you know, a couple different people on my team kind of manage it and then start having live conversations with people, qualifying them before they got on the phone. So that, because I don't have salespeople and all that type of stuff, you know, I got one sales guy and, you know, he closed a couple hundred grand worth of sales. So I don't want, I don't want people getting on the phone with him that are going to be wasting my time.

Yeah. And it's way more efficient for him to just kind of plug away.

Oh, yeah. Because he gets on the phone, he's like, all right, I just closed six people today and I only had seven calls. You know what I mean? So. So it's a very, very, very, very different type of sales because, you know, you know, a lot of people, you know, the typical close rates 10 to 20%. And I just don't want to have a sale. I don't want to have to manage a sales team.

Yep. Okay. So it has to, it asked them some questions and this happened all automated. At the end of the questions, was there an automated, like, hey, thanks. Based upon your answers, this is, this is what's right for you. And you give them a link to an order form.

You got it.

Nice.

Or either an order form or, hey, go check out this other webinar or basically inside of that, we were able to know where their intention was. So we're like, okay, are we going to basically give them an order form or are we going to be in a situation where we actually, you know, they need another piece of content in order to be ready for it.

I love that.

That's cool. So, I mean, that's just one of the interesting ways, you know, we're using bots now inside of our challenge to get higher engagement rates. Webinar bots for getting more people to show up and sign up and then purchase afterwards. One more just little cool story.

When we did, we got a bots for business program, like a training program, and we pre sold $20,000 worth of that via messenger bot before the program was even, like, was even around.

Yeah.

And literally there was not even a sales page. There was no webinar. There's no sales page, nothing. We literally just sent out being like, hey, listen, do you want. Do you want this? Go ahead. And you can buy it for half off right now in the next 24 hours.

That's beautiful.

Oh, yeah. I mean, it was like one of those moments where it was like. And it was a Friday night, between Friday night and Saturday night, we made 20 grand. And it was by far one of those moments where it was like, well, that worked.

Yeah.

I guess we're creating a training program. And so that was really cool.

That's awesome. Now, what is the. For some of your clients? Are there any bots that have. I'm on your page right now, so I see a bunch of, like, the. Done for you bot case studies, for instance, and there's a handful of them. Are there any ones that. For your clients that you're really proud of?

Yeah, I mean, you know, a lot of what I'm seeing is, you know, and I see this, everyone. This is not for creating more leads. This is for getting better leads.

Correct.

Right.

I like that. That's a great. Put that.

Yeah. And this is, you know, I'm not, I'm not promising to anybody. You probably get less leads, to be honest with you. What this really is about is getting better qualified leads that you're being more, you know, further relevant to. Right. So what I've seen, you know, one case, you know, he owns a fitness company, and his close rate has gone up significantly. I won't quote what it is. I think I know what it is, but I don't want to misquote it. It's gone up significantly like 2 1/2 times since he started using a messenger bot because he's able to pre qualify just like we did. And I know his, his rate beforehand was about 19%, which is pretty on average.

Now how does he get people into the bot? Is he running ads to it or is he.

Yeah, he's running ads. Yeah. I mean, he spends like 50, 60, $70,000 a month on ad. So I mean, it's, it's. It's no big deal for them. I mean, you know, another really interesting thing, you know, we've had a lot of people come into our program and they don't have an advertising budget. They just literally put it on their page and they just, you know, they're a local business or whatever. People just message a page and people are just coming in organically. And like that's, that's even cooler because those are like literally free super qualified leads versus actually having to pay for them.

Nice. So ads to bots, that's the one thing we didn't cover. Yeah. Facebook ad to a bot. Are you ever starting the, in the slow lane like that? Are you ever doing that as your first thing? Are you usually targeting?

Yeah, well, I mean, you know, at the end of the day, like the best type of bot you're gonna have is like going direct to a guide. Right. A guide is going to be probably the best bot you can do, which is really typically in the sidewalk, sometimes in the slow lane. But you know, I would say it this way, it really depends on your niche, your location, you know, all these different types of things. The higher the lane, the more expensive the lead, the more likely they're going to be looking around, you know, your competitors. But if you get someone in the sidewalk or the lower spectrum of the slow lane, you know, chances are they're gonna buy from you. Right. So I like, you know, from that, you know. Yeah. So, you know, from that end it really goes, you know, if you're in Europe, you know, I, it's really funny. Anytime I ever see anyone from Europe buy a program, I know it's gonna be an instantaneous success story. You know what I mean?

And, and so it's, it's insane over there, man. It's insane. Just, it's ridiculous. Like, ridiculous. I've never seen anything like it. It's like North America was 10 years ago. And, and so, you know, over there, you know, I say, listen, you gotta, if you got something that's hot in a niche that's not overpopulated and not oversaturated, listen, you can go to the, you can go straight to the fast lane. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not the guy here saying, hey, listen, you had to have a three tier marketing funnel. I'm just saying it's hard to play a game nowadays unless you do it. But if you got an unfair advantage, you know, if you're selling, you know, if you're selling ice cream, you know, on a summer day in a park, do you have to try very hard to sell the ice cream? Probably not, no. But if you're trying to sell ice cream in the middle of winter when there's no one around, you might have to work a little bit harder.

Exactly.

It's more about that. Right?

I love that. Now you guys sent out an email today on bots for business done for you customize messenger bots. So in I'm guessing I literally we.

Just sent it out like an hour ago.

I know I got it right before.

We jumped on the applications coming in. Just like boom, boom, boom.

Give me the quick low down on that. So first of all, bots for business, do you guys have a training program but then you also have done for you service?

Yeah, so we got a training program497,997. Depends on the level of, you know, basically level of additional support you want afterwards. Right. And then our done for you is essentially. So we've done about 60, 70 done for you bots thus far. Now they were very, very kind of simplistic. They were very like they have to be ssf. So you had to have a sidewalk, you have to have a slow lane, you have to have a fast lane you come in. And that's all we built. So it's kind of like if you wanted something different, then too bad.

So that was fine for a while. And so now we have like nine or ten different levels of bot. So you can have a messenger bot for your webinar, you can have a challenge bot, you can have a video series bot, you can whatever it may be. So we're having people submit the application and we'll basically come back and say a couple of things. Number one, is this a good idea for you or not? Because we want to make sure that if we're going to help someone bot it's successful. And then number two, here's what the cost is going to be.

Does your cost range based on what they need?

So it ranges anywhere from about 1500 to about 5000.

Gotcha.

Okay, cool. Right. So we've had, you know, we've had 60, 70 people have been super happy. We haven't had a single person refund, which is great, especially when you're kind of in that beta mode and you're kind of, you know, just, just kind of getting started. This isn't an agency, so it's not a situation where like we get on phone calls or anything like that. It's all very kind of like you supplies the information. We build a bot, we build a natural language sequence, we help you get it out there. And then of course, you know, kind of optimize and all that, you know, good stuff. Right, Nice. So that's, that's basically what that looks like, man. And, and I'm like, honestly, I'm excited with that. I mean, you know, the profitability of that. You know, I think We'll, I, you know, I think we'll do about a million and a half, 2 million this year, 12 months with this. The next thing that we're going to be doing is really kind of expanding into not just Facebook messenger, but. You got it. And this is, this is probably a conversation another time, but messenger bots will replace websites.

Yeah, you think so?

Yeah, the websites of the future. By 2021, it'll be a bot. Guaranteed. It will not be a website. Websites are very outdated and, you know, they're just not relevant anymore. So we're going to be going down that road if we fast forward a little bit, you know, into the future.

I like it. I like it. So is there any nuts you're trying to crack right now? Any resources you, you're trying to get people you're trying to hire meet?

Anything else besides just grow your business? Right. Is there anything that we can potentially.

You know what? One of the biggest things right now is definitely like, you know, PR number two, because PR actually has a really, really high long term roi and then, you know, new people that have audiences that need our lead craft program and bots program and that type of thing from, you know, not just from an affiliate perspective saying, oh, here's your stuff. But you know.

I don't want to sound arrogant, but we got really, really, really good programs that have really high success rates and we have a lot of really good free content. And so, you know, people get a lot of value just out of the stuff that we share for free. So that's really, honestly, that's the biggest thing right now. And then obviously, you know, if we can share the guides and a couple other things in the show notes for anyone there, then everyone can kind of get a look at, you know, we produce a lot, I mean, we produce a lot of content. Like my content marketing budget is pretty big, but, but I like that. I love, I love, I love the, you know, I love the comments and seeing people actually use that stuff, you.

Know, that's super cool. So I know you're going to send me some links to some of those resources, but if they want to find more, if they want to get into your funnel and get herpes like you said, they can't get rid of you. I love that.

Where should people go? Find out more.

Yeah, so I mean, anything on Leadcraft, buyleadcraft.com or just Google me, Scott Offord on Google or follow me on Facebook, whatever it may be in terms of the bots thing, bots4business.

And I think we're actually, I think we've done, I don't know, 3 or $400,000 in revenue so far and we don't even have a website yet. So it's literally just an opt in to our guide. So. So by the time this goes live, it'll probably have a website there and we'll actually, you know, but websites are.

So, I mean they're, they're going to be gone, right? It's going to be.

Yeah, I know, I know, I know. It's kind of like one of those things where it's like it does have a good prior from a content marketing perspective, but I always see business owners that are like, oh my God, I need a website. It's like, no you don't.

Nice. So to kind of sum up some of the stuff on bots that I learned real quickly, bot.

Is great for getting quality leads, not necessarily quantity, quality and creating engagement and qualification and giving people kind of a novel experience versus just trying to use it to replace email because it doesn't do that a little bit. You found it be a little bit better doing a traditional lead gen ad to like an opt in, get the email first and then use that on the back end in order to a. I love that. Give them as a content upgrade or even use it as a call to action on a webinar to go qualify them even more, which I love because yeah, it makes them jump through some hoops.

Yep.

And.

I mean those are some of the big things. I can't wait to kind of go back, listen to this and go, there's.

Like, after you download that guide, there's a, there's about a 90 minute training. Yes, I pitched you at the end, of course, but, but there's a 90 minute training on how to deploy the messenger bot in less than seven days. And I go through strategy implementation technology, natural language sequencing, how to, you know, put it on Facebook, ads, everything.

By the way, last question. I'd be dumb if I didn't ask you this. Are there any? Because you don't have your own bot, like, like a competitor manychat or like a software, do you? Cool. So is there somebody you like better than other.

You know what, I'm pretty agnostic on that. Like I use manychat. Is it perfect? No, but it works. You know, fair enough. I mean, listen, there's lots of competitors, lots of softwares that are going to get on the scene. I'm keeping my options open right now. Like I'm not kind of betting on one specific piece of software just because the fact that we are in the early adopter stage.

Yep.

And who knows what's going to come out.

Yeah, I've been playing as I said, with manychat chat fuel. Both seem to work pretty well. And the nice part is you can get in for like I think like for free in the beginning and screw around with it. So man, Scott, I know you got to go, you got another phone call you got to jump on, but I really appreciate your time on here. It's been a pleasure to meet you and may be able to do some business here the not too distant future. I'm happy to send any of you know, the people over who want to learn some lead craft, want to learn some bots over to you guys.

Of course.

I guess I will see you on the Book of Faces.

Yeah, we will for sure. And I'm sure I'll be down in San Diego sometime soon. So, you know, I'm kind of more and more and more and more people I meet from San Diego. I was like, you know, every single time I go, I come back, it's like, why don't I live there? Yeah, exactly. It becomes more and more like home. So. Yeah, for sure, man. Listen, thanks for having me on. If you're still here and you're still listening, great job on the keeping the add under control. But thank you for listening and looking forward to say hi on our Facebook community once you're in our funnel and inside of our interwebs and have our herpes, which you know, it's probably the only herpes you'll ever want to have.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. Alright guys, so if you have any questions, I don't have my messenger bot set up yet, but you can always email me@askbradakenrapbusiness.com and it is a personal email address. I will read it and I will help you out if I can. Until next time, subscribe to the show, share it with your friends and I'll see you on the next episizzle.