Never Lose a Listing Again: The “Don’t Fire Me Report” | Tom Ferry Podcast Experience

Hey, Lourdes. Don't hit me. The next time I see you.

Say your last name.

Maestris.

See, I can't say it like that.

It doesn't matter.

How does it. How does a lily white boy say it? I was like. I was like, master. Do you know what I mean? Like, and I'm like, maestros, I'm gonna be in. I'm gonna be in Spain for, like, 10 days in September. I better get my shit together. Donde esta casa de Pepe?

So here's the thing. Entrepreneurs, leaders, salespeople, we all want to create consistent, repeatable, and scalable ways to grow our business and our income. And we want to do it better, faster, and more seamlessly. Why? So we can actually enjoy our lives, take vacations, and spend the quality time we want with the people that we love. How do we do all this without spending a fortune or running ourselves ragged? That's the big question. And this show is dedicated to the answer.

Hey, welcome back to the podcast, episode 301. I am just curious. I can't wait to read your comments. Let me know. Have higher interest rates, a little less buyer demand. Some confusion in the economy caused your listings to have longer days on market. If the answer is yes, yes and more yes, you are going to love today's show. I've asked longtime friend, amazing client, extraordinary team leader, Compass down in Fort Lauderdale. Her name is Lourdes. She sells a lot of real estate, she helps a lot of people, and she coaches for me. And occasionally I say, hop on an airplane and come do a seminar and show people the thing that you do. You do a lot of things amazingly well, Lourdes, but one thing you do is you communicate effectively to your sellers and you do things that are different to help them get their home sold. And that's what we want to unpack today. So, Lourdes, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me today. I'm excited to share my secret. How do I avoid getting fired after work?

Well, if you're watching on YouTube, you can see behind her, there's a TV screen that says, don't fire me report. Right? Like, how do I. By the way? We don't want to. We don't want to send a client a letter that says, don't fire me. But that is. It's what you do to not get fired and ultimately, to help sell the property. So, Lourdes, we want to unpack two things today. I want to talk about the don't fire me report because I think every agent needs it today. And I also want to talk about some different marketing that you've been doing that is creating a buzz and a stir for, you know, for you, selling properties from, you know, $100,000 to $15 million or $18 million in Fort Lauderdale. So 32. But yes, but, yes. But of course, who's. But who's counting? So if you're watching this on. If you're listening on the podcast, you might want to check out the. The YouTube version of this later, because she's going to share some slides to give you visual examples of something that you can rip off and duplicate and be effective with your customers. So. So just very quickly give us context. How long you been selling houses? What's your business goals for this year and where you at? So people have context.

So I've been in real estate for 16 years. I have. I was actually out of production, and I got back in production. Last year was my first year back, you know, due to all the changes. I. So I made a lot of adjustments with the team, and my goal in 2025 was to do less transactions, make more money, and same amount of volume, maybe a little bit higher volume, but I was focused more on quality, and that's been the goal, and I'm on track. So I've made a lot of changes this year, and I've really spent a lot of money or invested a lot of money in marketing what I have so I can get more of what I have, which is I like selling luxury, and that's the ultimate dream.

I love it. I love it. And you do it well. I mean, I was looking at the numbers you're sitting at. I don't want to misquote this. Call it about $65 million closed, 50 transactions, 18 active listings. I'm sure whenever this gets released, someone will go to Zillow and they'll see, you know, everything you have going on. So, Lourdes, some people say that you are a straight shooter. You're. You're very direct. You're like. You're like the surgeon you want doing surgery on you. You're very precise. You're very disciplined, which means for a lot of people, you're not their cup of tea. But. But when it comes to, like, a system will produce what a system will produce nothing more, nothing less. Your middle name might as well be systems. So tell. Tell, my listener, what is the origin story of the don't fire me report? What are the six components of it? And then why don't you visually walk us through how you do it? How Often you do it like, if I'm your seller, how many times am I going to see this? So kind of just unpack the whole thing for us, if you would, please.

Yeah. Well, to start in the beginning, I wasn't always like this. I was pretty organized, but I was never disorganized because I didn't know what I needed to do until I really leveled up and determined that I needed to have a system for absolutely everything. So even those people that are listening that may be feeling like, okay, I'm never going to do what she's doing. This is too much. This is intense. It took me a long time to build these systems, and I continue to grow and adjust with my team. So, for example, we just recently changed our entire listing presentation. Right? So, like, it's all. We're always working on this. So. So that's, number one, I wasn't always like this. I had a little bit of me in it, and I just developed into it. So my report was born because I started to realize that I was having a very hard time selling the inventory, and I needed to make sure that I would set myself apart from the competition. Number one, when I'm going on the appointment, and number two, when I'm not able to deliver a quick sell like we were all used to, everybody was selling houses. So quickly my market change about a year ago, and it's, you know, there's more days on market today, and some of my listings are even getting 4 to 8 price reductions before I can get it sold. Now, a lot of the sellers today are already. They already know that the market has changed here locally, so I foresee that that's going to be less because we're pricing a little bit more aggressively. But the ones that I already had sitting on the market, I couldn't sell them. So I said, how do I convince a seller? And it doesn't sound like it's me being a salesperson just wanting to get a commission and I need to show them. So I said, all right, let's. Let's imagine what do we need to show them? We need to show them all the data. We need to show them all the competitive. All the competitive listings and even show them a history of what's going on in every single one of them. So I created a report that reported, adjusted it a few times, and also all my marketing efforts. You know, a lot of people would say out there, like, oh, our realtors are lazy. They, you know, they sell a house in one hour. They don't do anything. They just made $10,000. So I wanted to show the custom that what I do for real, and I think that's one thing that everybody could take away, is like, does your customer really know what you actually do to get a home sold? Right. You just don't take a picture and throw it on the mls. Right, right. Market property. So that's how. That's how the do not fire me report was born. And I started to realize that people started to come to me and not give me any objections. They'll be like, okay, how much do I go down? Should I go down $100,000? Sometimes I wouldn't even say a number because sometimes the customer will be like, they will tell me the price reduction after they read my reports.

Okay, everyone needs to just stop and just hear what you just said. When was the last time you called one of your sellers where you sent them information in an organized fashion and they said to you, okay, how much do we need to reduce it by?

It happens very often.

I know it happens often for you. I don't think the vast majority of the guy or gal listening right now is probably like, yeah, that would be nice. Whether you're sitting on two listings, five listings, or. I just talked to one of my clients, Mary, who's going to love this because she's got 98 active listings right now. And I challenged her to get 40 price amendments or improvements. And she's like, oh, let's go. So, Mary, shout out to you this the show is for you. So you have this vision for it. How often, if I was one of your sellers, you know, does the don't fire me report, sort of metaphorically, that term, what you're delivering, does it start at the listing appointment or is it 30 days in? Is it, you know, two weeks in? Like, give me the sort of time frame so I understand, like, how this thing's going to work.

So when I'm doing my listing presentation, one of the things I do is set the expectation. I'm sure everybody does the same. So I basically show them, like, once we start working together, you're going to get a report, and I show them a sample of their report so they know what to expect. Every Tuesday, you're going to get the report, unless there's a holiday on Monday, then you're going to get it on Wednesday. So. So my assistant will send out those reports on every listing, and we're even doing those on the rentals because the rental market has also changed. And I have a rental division, which is. That's A separate transaction. We do a lot of those as well. So we're doing it for Everybody, whether it's 100,000 or whether it's $10 million listing, like, everybody deserves to know what you're doing to promote their home.

Yes. All right, so I'm, so I'm up front. I'm going to make the adjustment potentially in my appointment to say on a weekly basis, I will be communicating the following to you. And you give them like an example, like I have here in my hands. And actually, why don't you show them the example? Show them the example. And again, if you're listening on the podcast, jump over to the. To my YouTube channel sometime today so you can get these visual examples.

So can you see my screen?

And we do. Got it.

Okay, perfect. So I have two type of reports. I have the weekly report, which is a short version that they receive every Tuesday. After 30 days, if we don't have any offers or any activity, then I go and do a little bit of a more. I consolidate all the report, all information, and I do a longer report. And some people will say, no one's going to read that if you're not an analytical person. And like, they're going to read the report. They want to know why their home is not selling. So if I did a broker's open, I'm going to tell them who came to the brokers open, how many people, what was the feedback? What did, what did I do? What did my team do to bring people through the door? We send out text messages, we made cold calls. We. Whatever is it that we did. Then if I do networking events, like, I'm going to tell the customer, by the way, I was in a networking event. If I go to a Tom Ferry conference, I'm like, I went to Tom Ferry conference and I spoke to at least 30 agents a day. So I want them to know that I'm out and about networking.

Yes.

Any, any feedback? I'm going to tell the customer the truth. And I want them to give me permission, like, do I have permission to share the feedback from other brokers? 99% of the time they're going to say yes. Okay. So I will put that in writing. And then my digital performance, like, what am I doing? Whether it's YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, like, whatever is like, whatever is that you're doing. Like, everybody here is doing something to promote that home. But are you tracking and can you show the customer what you're doing? So that's what I do. I don't just tell Them, I show them. And even my results. For example, if I do a newsletter, what was my, what was my click rate? 35%. They may not know what that means, but they're never going to question that I am working. So it's never going to be my fault that the home didn't sell. It's the market that's speaking to us.

Yes.

And I consolidate all the media performance and I put that into the report. Let me show you the second page of the report. For example, I do a lot of letters. I do, I print. I do something called the deal of the week, which I learned from Jimmy Macken. And every time I take a listing, I send out letters promoting that, my listing as the deal of the week. And if I take a listing outside of my farm area, I'm still going to say send it to my farm area, even though it's outside of it. Showings, feedback. We ask a lot of questions, regardless if they have another broker or not. I want to know everything. Who is this buyer? Where are they coming from? Everything. And we include that in the report. And then obviously the market statistics, which, as a professional real estate agent, we should all know and we can all do the same homework. And even though you may be saying, a lot of people said to me, oh, I talk to my seller every week, okay, did you send them an email after you spoke to them? Because, you know, you have a conversation, it's gone. Right. But if you put it in writing every week, week after week after week, that price reduction is going to come in easy. They're going to be calling you and be like, okay, please lower the price. And that's really what this, this has done for me is just get it makes my job easier and less objections.

So again, for my friend that is listening on, you know, in the car, on the subway, you know, whatever, you know, riding, riding your exercise bike, literally, she's breaking down in four pieces of paper, print and direct mail, showing and other engagements. Right? Market statistics. Here's what's going on. It's every one of those details. So. So, Lourdes, if I get you straight at the listing presentation, you talk about it, then every Tuesday, they're going to get this. How much time would you expect this to take the average agent who doesn't have an assistant to get this done on a weekly basis? How much time?

So if you know your market, you should be able to do this in 20 minutes.

Okay?

If you are organized, you should be able to do this in 20 minutes. If you maybe not that organized it may take you a little bit longer than that. Now you can use AI tools to consolidate the information, do it quicker. But once you have information like it will take, I mean, I don't do these personally anymore, actually do the price reduction one. My assistant does the weekly one. It takes me. The consolidation one. It takes me probably like 30 minutes. But I want to put that time in and I want to do this. This is super, super important.

This coming year will be my 17th success summit. To me, it's the absolute best education I can get in the world of real estate. After attending summit, we had our best year ever.

More top line and more bottom line.

Revenue for our business. It was like a rock concert for real estate, really, just to get in there the energy to be around so.

Many people, connections, fun referrals. The summit always gets me back on my feet. Each time I go, I take away so many new contacts. And the referral business has just been incredible.

If I can promise you anything, it's that these three days in Dallas will change everything.

I think there's something too. It's like we used to talk, you and I, about like the artisan agent. The artisan agent who just pays such close attention to their craft. Like, you know, they're not laying bricks, they're building a cathedral for the people in their community to go and worship and pray. Like, yeah, they're both laying bricks. But one's doing that. Like, I see you as that person that, like, even if it took you 30 minutes, the craft to understand the insights on that price point in that market, I mean, how much does that help you when you're going on a listing appointment or you're talking to a buyer about how's the market? Like, it's gotta just make your brain pop in terms of how many insights and data points you have. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it's made me a better agent since I started these reports. I've always reported, right? We've always reported that phone call like, hey, by the way, we got a show in this and that. But since I took this really seriously and I decided to make this part of my standard operating procedures every week, it's made me so knowledgeable, I have accelerated my learning and, and I know every piece of inventory, I know every competition and like every real estate agent who I'm competing with and every house inside. So like, I'm able to overcome any objections from the seller so quickly because of the efforts I put in to create this process. It's worth it. This is like, this is like studying, like I'm studying every single day.

You know, it's interesting. I showed you that visual, right?

The bell curve.

We were chatting and I'm starting to play around this for the person that's listening. We've all seen this sort of bell curve access of like highest possible price and how much time it takes and that sort of optimal sales zone. And what I'm getting, just maybe, you know, you and I always trying to plus enhance this kind of stuff is we, I think we need to name it, this is the optimal sales zone. You're hiring me to get as much exposure, as many people through as quickly as possible to sell for the highest possible price. And what we know is every zone following, you're going to sell it for less. And I think that's for my friend that's listening. Like you can imagine sort of that y access or, you know, that access of like price and time. And then what it takes to get the optimal sales price in the right amount of time versus chasing the market and how that makes the seller feel. We know from our research, 45 days after the home has been listed and it hasn't sold, the seller is now doubting the real estate professional. They never seem to doubt their price, you know what I mean? But they doubt their real estate professional. I think what you've done a wonderful job is, is making sure like you're removing all the doubt, you're leaving no stone unturned, if you will. So second part of the question is, you said, I'm giving this stuff on Tuesday, but you do something different when you ask for a price reduction. Help us understand that. What do you do differently to get the price reduction?

So I set the expectation from the beginning. Like, you know, we're gonna price. Well, there's three ways to price the home, right? And most of the time the seller, especially in the luxury market, they want to price it high. So you're not gonna lose a listing over a price if you know there's motivation. So I take the listing and I said, okay, we're gonna try this for 30 days, 60 days, whatever that is. So when that time comes, a week before that, I will go and consolidate all the information. I will make some additional phone calls to make sure, like any of the pending deals, is it an end user, is it an investor? Like any information that I can find that is not available to the public, I want that information for that phone call and I do another listing presentation. It's a price reduction presentation. I had a couple, they were like, in their 80s, and they don't do zoom or anything like that. Everything was in person. So I said, all right, I need you to come into the office. So they came into the office. I did this whole PowerPoint, and we were listed at, like, not 9 million, and I was able to bring them down to 5.75 million, but I literally spent an hour and a half with them sitting in my. In my Office doing a PowerPoint presentation, showing them every single thing I did. And when they. When I finished, they just said to me, wow, you've done a lot of marketing. And they told their entire family about my marketing. I did, like, six versions of video of their home.

Yes, yes.

So they gave me the price reduction and the property sold finally. But, you know, I had to put in the work and show them what I was doing, and they never doubted me. And the listing expired, and they renewed with me and everything. So, yeah, I would say it's 30, 60, 90 days, depending on the price point and the expectation with the seller. You can set that up from the beginning. Yes.

And I would imagine the lower the price point, the more important it is to get that optimal sales, you know, zoning right on time. But you can make the argument for the same thing for the high end. I mean, how many more properties do we need to see listed at. Pick a number. 5 million, 10 million, 20 million? 200 million. You know, Gary Gold, Mauricio, shout out to, you know, you know, two great friends. Listen. Listed and sold. The Playboy Mansion. He was, like, listed for 200 million, sold for 100.

Yeah.

How many more times do we need to see that right before we say, Mr. Mrs. Seller, I can. I can line up a thousand agents outside this door. We're all looking at the same data. We're all looking at the same comparable sales. If an agent tells you an extremely higher price, are they not looking at the data? Are they. You know what I mean? Like. Like, it's all that stuff. But let's. Let's switch gears. Sake of time. I promise you, we keep this short and brief. You did a campaign recently that my buddy Jimmy Mackin was like, omg, you have to see what Lourdes did. Show us that campaign.

And then.

I know it's early. I know it's early. So for, you know, every agent, Fort Lauderdale, you're not allowed to use this. Every other agent around the world pay very close attention.

Listen, they can use it. I know at the end of the day, you need to take action. I mean, there's plenty of homes for all of us. To sell. So listen, my competitors in the office will call me and I'll send it to them.

Yeah, I love that about you.

I believe in abundance. So this is my list. So what I did is, okay, I'm trying to have a higher, more of a market share in the luxury. So I selected all the luxury sales that I've had in the last year or so. And I said, okay, how did I meet this customer? And whether it's online, there's one cold calling that I threw in there that I. It's a really good sales. I needed to throw that in there. And I. Basically, that's what I'm promoting, my online marketing strategy. And it's very different.

So the person. Hold on, back up for the person that can't see it. Go back again to the headline. Keep the visual up. Go back to the headline. The headline says, we don't wait for buyers, we find them, dot. And then it says online. Online.

Right.

And then other agents follow tradition. Lourdes sets the new standard with modern strategies that deliver real results. Strategic, high impact online marketing. The clients had the privilege. Oh, these are the clients we've had the privilege to help. It wasn't random. It was intentional. Through video, social media, digital ads, cold calling, exclusive campaigns. We don't wait for buyers to find us. We go find them. And then literally you have property price, how you met and did you represent buy side or sell side? And it looks like there's about 12 of them there. And at the bottom it says dot, dot, dot, and many more. So, so who did you mail this to and how many did you mail? As the first campaign goes, as we're doing this show, and what was the response?

So I. My first letter went out a couple of weeks ago. We did a test of about 2500. And yesterday we did 5000 more of this. And I'm going to double to 10,000. I'm selling and sending this to Waterfront Homes in Fort Lauderdale. East Fort Lauderdale luxury homes. Three million and up.

Yeah.

Because that's my ultimate target and my goal. And the beauty about this is that there's a lot of top agents in my market, but nobody knows their number, Nobody knows their strategy, and they have no idea. Like, I've had a top producer call me yesterday. Is like, Lord. Is like, how did you. How do you do this? Like, I only sell to people I know. Can I have lunch with you? I'm like, okay, yes.

So. So you sent out 2500 and now you're sending another 5000. And you're thinking about going to 10,000. So can I assume that no one called on the 2500 and that's why you're doubling down?

No, no. We got one call on that. So on average, we get. So. So we get a couple of calls, right? We get like. Like, what's my house worth? I'm not ready right now, but can you send me some information? I'm selling this other home. Like, I just got a guy who has a house. He's in his 80s, and he's selling an airport in another place in Florida. He says, like, I don't want to meet with you. He's, like, really grumpy. I don't want to meet with you right now, but I want to talk to you when I sell the airport. So that one came from one of those letters. That's like a $3 million house. Today I'm going on another appointment from my letters as well. Also, another home. Like, two and a half million dollars. Tear down on the water. So. So, yeah, I get. I get on average between one to four people who raise their hands on a weekly basis every time these letters go out. That doesn't mean I'm getting the listing right away, but I'm getting that person into my CRM and I got their phone number and their intention that they want to sell at some point.

I. I love it. And then when you look at the backside, Brian, show the backside of this marketing. So I'm looking at it right now. You've got two QR codes. I'm curious about that. You have the how we did it. You know, Hillsboro Watch. I'm assuming that's a property. And then how we did it. Seminole Watch sounds like two different parts of the market. And then below that, you got follow me on Instagram. And then our marketing works online, everywhere. And then you show all these dots on the map of the United States. Help me understand what you're trying to accomplish here. Two different QR codes. Follow me on Instagram and a map.

So since I started doing this, one of the things I realized I need to be able to have these people go somewhere. I was doing landing pages, and that was working okay. But if they plot. If the lead or the customer wasn't really interested, they didn't really want to put their information in there. So I said, all right, if I don't get their information, let me at least get a follower or somebody to watch. Even if they don't follow me, they're watching. So I. It's a promotional video of a home. How I sold this particular home with my strategy. And then the other one is for a different one with an auction strategy that we did.

And I'm going to play it, I'm going to play it into the microphone because I just hit the QR code. So for my friend listening, I hit the QR code and automatically this is what I got.

Did you hear about your neighbor?

Did you hear about your neighbor?

Yeah.

And then straight into the property.

Straight into the properties. Did you hear about your neighbor campaign? Yes. Obviously that's inspired by other Tom Ferry team leaders that I took that idea from. And then this is just a visual of the map. So when I go on the listing appointment, I Show them. So, Mr. Seller, I am going to be targeting your home to people up north. And my recent data shows me that, you know, 30% of the people are local, 30% of the people are up north. So I'm not going to spend any resources going, let's say to California, for example. This report changes all the time. This is part of my listing presentation.

I love that. I love. You know, there's a funny old truth. Before Zillow put a map on their website, the then I think he was like the coo, Spencer Raskoff, who became the CEO and a young guy working for him named Greg Schwartz. And I know you have both those guys, they were at a mastermind I was hosting and I want to say it was like 2012, 2013, 2014. And my buddy Dan Williams, who is Three Day Blinds chief revenue office officer, was talking about things that they are learning in his million dollar a month advertising campaign. This is like 15 years ago, 12 years ago, 10 years ago, whatever it is. And Dan said, maps create 30% more clicks than anything else we've discovered. And, and I don't, I'm sure the guys at Zillow, because they're smart, probably have the intention, but I certainly remember watching those two guys go, oh, we got to put a map on everything. And then how long before we suddenly saw a map? I'm dating myself here because I've watched the evolution of Zillow and Realtor and everything else. When that map hit and you could put your transactions on it, people were like, oh, oh, she sells a lot of houses in my area. It was so validating. So I was hoping you were going to say, because the map, hey, this is my reach, right? Or this is where my buyers are coming from or my marketing reaches this part of the world. So, you know, by listing with me, you're going to touch a lot of people. I love this piece.

Yeah, I. It changes every week because obviously, you know, I get to see where the people are coming from, so I'm able to adjust and adapt. And my. The map right now actually looks like, you know, 45 local. So a lot of the other. The other coast has. Are. They're not coming here right now. So, yeah, people don't know that. And they love this map. This is one of my favorite parts. When I do my listing presentation and people ask me a lot about this. This is my favorite piece.

I love it. So I just showed a. I did some content yesterday. You and I were chatting, and I said, I'm talking to people about all the different things they can do as alternatives to get a property sold. And you added one that I forgot. So thank you. I said, you know, obviously, you could reduce the price. Two, you can improve the quality of the. Of the house, make it show worthy, make it feel newer, because that's what buyers want. We said you can auction the property. You could do the reverse offer strategy, which is you're calling the agents that have been showing the property, and you're like, look, I'm about to get a price reduction. This is what my seller is looking for. Here are the terms. I'm going to give you 24 hours. That strategy has been really interesting. And then you said, hey, you can always rent it out. Right? That's an option. You could take it off the market. That's an option. But what I love about this is you're doing the reason you're doing the thing that they actually hired you to do. Market to sell my house. Do you also use the Magic Buyer Letters?

I do, yes. We do the Magic Buyer letters, but I typically have a buyer for real. As a matter of fact, I'm about to send another one out. So every time I meet a client that I know is loyal to me is going to sign an exclusive agreement with me, and it's in a decent budget, and they don't have what, you know, there's nothing available for them. I will do the Magic Buyer letter, and I spend money and I show them. I show them a copy. I even show them a copy of my receipt. Just so you know, I just spent $2,000 on you.

Yeah.

So. Because I don't want them to go anywhere else. So. Yes. And that also generates. Listen. Opportunities.

Of course. Of course. I love it. All right, Lourdes, I've already gone way over on your time. This was super valuable. Episode 301 in the can. I feel like I'M looking at Brian like we're back on track doing podcasts, but, you know, I'm about to travel again, so. Rro r row. Here we go. Hey, if you're not following Lourdes on Instagram. L o u r D E S. I'm gonna print. I'm gonna say it wrong. M A e R S T R E z. Spell your last name so they do it right. Laura.

M a e s T R E S Maestres. Like a teacher in Spanish. Almost like that.

Yes, yes. And I told her, I said, no habla espanol. I can't do it, but I'm gonna go to Spain, so I gotta start rolling my R's. All right. That's all I got. Lourdes, you are always such a star. Thank you so much for being on the show, and thank you just for continually to push the envelope and show people that they don't have to be organized on a Tuesday, that you can just keep getting better and better and better over time. Then you wake up one day and you're crushing it, and everyone goes, oh, my God, you're so organized. Because that's you, my dear. Thank you from the entire coaching community, from all the coaches, from myself, and every time we go on the road, you know how much I appreciate you. Make sure you follow Lourdes on Instagram. And thank you for watching this show. Make sure you check it out on YouTube because she showed a lot of great visuals. Vis. Visuals. Yes, visuals. All right, we're out. Thank you so much.

If you want more information about this episode, including my show, notes, mentions, links, and everything else, make sure you visit tomferry.com podcast. That's tomferry.com podcast. Thanks again, and talk to you soon.

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