Sales & Closing Skills With Jonathan DeCollibus

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Hey, this is Brad Costanzo. Thanks for tuning in to bacon wrap business. I'm really excited today because we're talking about a topic near and dear to my heart, which is sales. I started off my business life in sales from pretty much day one. And I went through a unique journey. I was really good at closing sales and building rapport. I was terrible at marketing and generating leads and it kind of got me out of it. And in the past several years, I've kind of come full circle. Although I've always used my skills in sales as a, as a weapon in the world of marketing because the two are so closely linked. And you know, up until this point, we've mainly just been talking about marketing and different business strategies and really haven't dived into sales too much. But today we're doing that with an expert named Jonathan Colabus. And I'll bring Jonathan on in just a minute. But it's important you understand that Jonathan is a. He's, he's an expert in sales, but he's also an expert in teaching other people how to sell better. And he does work with a handful of salespeople and executives and folks who are trying to increase their skills. And we're going to talk about his approach, why it's unique and why it may be better and more effective than what you may be doing right now. If you don't think you sell in your business, if you think that you've got some other role, well, you may be mistaken because we all sell in life. We are all in the business of persuading. Whether that means persuading friends and family to do one thing or another or persuading customers and clients to give you money. We can all be better at the art and skill of persuasion and selling. And selling is truly a noble business if you don't feel like it is. If you feel like I hate selling, then you probably need to do a lot more exploring in what sales is really about. And when you do it right, it's never pushy, it's never, it's never, hey, buy my stuff, buy my stuff, buy my stuff. It's really getting into a prospect or a client's head and finding out what they want and figuring out how to serve them in the way that your product or service can. And today Jonathan's going to talk about how he does that, his three step process or formula for the initial part of sales and what he feels that people are doing wrong, some of the mistakes they're making and you know, how he teaches and guides them to do it more correctly. So we're gonna bring him on in just a second. But I wanted to start off by saying that if you have any questions and if you want to share some of your own strategies, feedback, anything, send me an email. Let me know what you're thinking. It's always welcome when I receive an email from my listeners. And you can do that@askbradakeandrabusiness.com just shoot an email over. They come right to my desk. I read every single one of them. I also read those itunes reviews that you guys are giving me. I'm loving all the five star reviews and hopefully I'm deliver a five star show to you. So even though it does take 30 seconds out of your precious day, I appreciate when you go over to itunes, leave a review if you're not sure how to do that and you're kind of confused. I put up a quick little tutorial@baconrapbusiness.com reviews. So there is the selfish part of my show. But I appreciate you going ahead and doing that really helps me and it helps other listeners know how much you enjoy the show. The more you like it, the more I'll do it. So without any further ado, let me go ahead and see if I can bring Jonathan on the line. Hey, Jonathan, are you with us?

I am here, brother. I'm live.

Cool, man. I'm glad to, I'm glad to have you on the show. I know you're, you're calling in from Russia today, aren't you?

I am. I'm calling in from actually very hot, warm and sweaty Russia, believe it or not.

Nice. What's the city you said you're in?

I'm in the city called Kazan. It's about an hour flight east of Moscow. So it's, it's kind of about a million, 2 million people. And it's not, not a major metropolitan. But you know, there's, there's a good amount of business rocking and rolling here.

So Nice. And you're over there obviously, you're obviously over there cooling off the tensions, meeting with Putin and you know, oh my.

God, doing all that, man. I'm you know what, that's why they sent me out here. I'm just doing my, my patriotic duty, brother. That's all I'm doing here.

I hear you. Well, as I mentioned in the introduction, I brought you on the show to talk about sales. And this is obviously one of the most important parts of business because it's where all the money comes from. Sales, marketing, both are very much linked. And as an expert in sales and closing and all of this, I thought you'd probably have a lot to share and a lot of insights on what's working, a lot of the mistakes people are making, the problems. But before I jump into that, like, I don't like to go into super long origin stories and tell me about your background, you know, what you like in high school.

But that is important and I want to get into that. But before we do, tell me right now, who do you serve? What is your, I mean, you obviously sell things for your, you've got your own business, you sell things for yourself, but you also are a coach, consultant, et cetera. Tell me a little bit about who you work with, how you serve them.

Yeah, you know, I mean, I work with a, with a really interesting group of people and it's, it's really basically ambitious dudes. I work mainly with, with guys. And it didn't happen that way because I was trying to be, you know, sexist, to be honest. It's just that I just found that my message is pretty, pretty aggressive. And honestly, I think with the way I was raised, I just have a hard time taking that aggressive message to the ladies. So, you know, so I end up, you know, working with dudes. And, and really the guys who tend to gravitate towards what I do the most are guys, you know, on the higher ticket end of things, whether they're doing, you know, selling grand pianos for a living or whether they're selling, you know, high end copywriting, you know, it really does range from services and products, but at the end of the day, you know, that's, that's who I work with is kind of the ambitious guy who's trying to hit that seven figure mark in personal sales, you know, personal income. And that's, you know, that's what I help people do is get to that level.

Okay, perfect. So now let's reverse. Tell me a little bit about your background and your experience in sales, kind of what led you to this. And then I want to dive into kind of all the bacon wrapped strategies.

Absolutely, brother, absolutely. Okay, well listen, I mean, I want to get to the bacon more than anything else. But I'll go ahead and make it a brief story then.

Because look, I mean, honestly. Yes, I mean, I think, you know, same thing with you, Brad. I mean we all have kind of our Superman stories about us crushing it and making it big and all those kind of things and being in high demand and all this kind of stuff. But honestly, dude, I mean, I mean where I started from, the roots of where I came from is I'm a farm kid from California. I'm a farm boy. I grew up on the farm, grew up milking the cows, milking the goats. When I was 15, long story short, I saw a magazine, Forbes magazine. See this guy on the front cover, he's crushing it in business. He's pretty, young looking. And I just got inspired, Brad, I swear to God. I saw this guy and I thought, you know what, I'm going to create wealth for myself. So I found the nearest mirror, stared myself in the eyeballs and I said, you know what man, whatever it takes, I'm going to be rich. And I didn't know what dollar amount that was. I wasn't being clear on, you know, a specific number of currency, but I knew what that meant for me. It meant, you know, self reliance. It meant the ability to have freedom and wealth and just to travel, to do whatever it is that I wanted to do. So started where I was and it was, it was really intense, mate, because I had basically nothing. I was starting. I had a bag borrow and steal to get a, you know, a mini tractor and some, you know, farm equipment. And I took that to our neighbors and I just started knocking on doors. I didn't have a license so I started Dr. Driving on my tractor, knocking on doors. And I started saying, hey, you know, I'm your neighbor kid down the street, you know, can I do some work for you? And you know, sure enough, I started building up some work. Long story short is I took that business, built up a lot of confidence, built up some currency, built up some cash, and I started a string of nine companies immediately after that. And I have a secret strategy that I use. It's called the reverse rocket launch strategy, Brad. And I successfully launched them deeply, deeply into the ground. And so I was in some, I was in some pretty bad debt. I was in some pretty bad emotional debt as well. I mean, I was in the hospital with, you know, panic attacks and not knowing what to do. You know, I was kind of freaking out going, you know, how do I make the cash? And then I met this Guy and he was a successful businessman and you know, I sought him out and I said, okay, you know, we're sitting at Starbucks. I go, what am I doing wrong? What's, you know, what's my problem? You know? And he looks at me and he goes, jonathan, he goes, it's simple to me. And I said, well, tell me, what is it? He goes, you don't know how to sell? And I'm like, no, no, no, I know how to sell, man. You know, I'm the 15 year old kid knocking on doors, you know, I know how to do this stuff. You know, I did it before, you know, I know I can sell. He goes, no. He goes, you can sell your way out of any problem, you know. And as soon as he said that there's something, Brad, it switched on in my brain. Something just snapped and I went out and I started buying dvd, started buying all the books, started studying, going all the seminars and just spending basically every penny I had, honestly on, you know, studying this whole idea of influence and sales and, you know, what does it take to create cash flow in a business? And so, yeah, I mean, that's kind of where my story came from. And you know, from there I went on to start for four other companies that were incredibly successful. And then I, after I got rid of my last company, you know, sold it off. I said, you know what, I love sales. And I, and I want to help entrepreneurs, you know, who are ambitious. I want to help them to kind of cut the time out of the equation. And that's kind of how, you know, I got to where I'm at right now, man. I mean, that's, that's the long short of it. I know I said it would just take a couple minutes.

No, that's really good. And I think it does help for people to have context, you know, where you came from, kind of the experiences that you've had and how they're influencing what you're doing right now. So let's talk about some of the sales tactics techniques. The, that was funny. He talked about the reverse rocket launch. I was like, that sounds like a great strategy. Then I, then I heard the. Oh. I was like, wait, reverse rocket launch into the ground?

Yeah, the reverse rocket launch. Yeah, it's like the, the flames up on top, the, the, the tip of it's pointing towards the earth, you know, that's, that's funny.

Yeah, it kind of reminds me of a, I used to be a stockbroker way back in the day and I really. Yeah, occasionally, you know, this this was a. Also at a time when is the end of the 90s when everything went up and then. But it was also in the beginning of the 2000s when everything went down. And I started referring.

Down. Yeah, yeah.

I started referring my. To referring to myself as a. As a tax law specialist. Like, listen, you need tax losses, I will get them for you.

Just invest with me. So. Oh, my God.

Yeah. Hey, listen, Mr. Client, I can.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're not going to make a lot of money with me, but you're not going to pay a lot of taxes either.

Absolutely, absolutely.

So let's jump into kind of some of the meat of it and let's talk about. So you work with. You work with a lot of individual salespeople. Do they kind of seek you out for help and how to get better at their job? You work with a lot of entrepreneurs, I guess, as well, because any good entrepreneur should understand that their main job, their main roles should be two things. Organizing resources to propel their business and selling. You know, that's number one. If you're an entrepreneur, if you're the owner of business, you need to be selling. And we all sell. We all sell in our lives, no matter what we're doing. And, you know, having more persuasion, more skills like that are highly important. So what do you think that most people, let's say that most people you're working with are doing wrong, especially when they kind of seek you out? What do you see as some of the bigger mistakes that folks are making?

Yeah, you know, Brad, I mean, I'd say that the number one.

You know, mistake that I would see entrepreneurs making, the number one issue that. That comes up over and over again, is that they see the world through their own eyes. You know, they. They see their benefits through their own eyes. You know, they. They see their, you know, their own value through their own eyes. And the problem with that, Brad, is that, you know, as, you know, it's all about, you know, really being able to relate that value into the client's perspective. Because, like, trying to, you know, the, the analogy that I use is that it's like trying to walk up to somebody in the middle of the street and try to stuff a hamburger in their mouth, you know, you know, it's. It's, you know, and they may be a vegetarian.

You don't.

They may be a vegetarian, but, you know, here's the thing is that isn't it better to set the table for them, to ignite some hunger with them, you know what I'm saying? And to. And to get them to raise that appetite to where they're begging for that hamburger, they're begging for that meal, you know, and the way that we do that is by understanding, you know, what their desires are, you know, what it. What are they looking for, you know, what are their. What are their needs, you know, what. What is their. What are their pain points? What are their core, core, core desires? And then speak to that. You know, Kevin nations has a fantastic phrase that I'm going to steal right now. He talks about pillow talk, you know, about if you can use your clients pillow talk, you know, not the. The seven biggest strategies that you know will help double your sales the next five days. Now, you know, when your clients are laying down a bed next to their partner, whether that be their wife or their best friend or their dog, who the hell. Right. They're laying down there when what the way that they express their problem is the way that we need to be expressing the solution.

I couldn't agree more.

You know, so that's why it says, you know, to answer the question in brief, I'd say that that's what it is for me.

You know, that brings me to. I've got a big background, both in sales and copywriting. And there's. I mean, there. It's actually the exact sales copy speaking. I mean, they're so in. They're so connected. And one of the. One of the concepts in copywriting that I learned years ago, actually firsthand, so I'd heard about it this. It's called a dominant emotional release, and it's kind of the same thing as the pillow talk. So when you. When you are able to hit that. Hit that point where it's like you've just released all the emotion. I don't even know if that's a good name for it because it doesn't really paint a vivid picture, but it's. I've heard it referred to as a dominant emotional release, where you're basically saying their problem in their words as good or better than they were able to phrase it themselves. And that happened to me one time. I remember it. I was on Rich Sheffrin's newsletter from Strategic Profits. And I've always been a big fan of Rich, and he's always been really, really good at this. And this was several years ago, maybe 2009 or 10. And I had said to somebody else, I had an online business, but I was doing all the work. I was barely outsourcing, didn't have really. I think I only had one employee And I told somebody else, I feel like I'm just pretending to be an entrepreneur. Like, I've got. I own a job. I'm just playing this game, but I'm not really being an entrepreneur, and I'm mad at myself. And the next day, I still got this email saved because it was that point. The. The email said, are you playing entrepreneur, Brad? And I think, well, you got to be kidding me. So I open it up and it says, do you feel like you're doing this, this, this? Well, you. You may feel like an entrepreneur, but you're only playing one. It's time to be one. And I was like, holy crap. And I think I bought. Right. He had some product. But I remembered I had, like, you said exactly what I was feeling, exactly what I said to a friend of mine, in my words, you owned me. And that's kind of the key is when you can. When you can say that. When you can say it in their words, you really do own them. They're like, oh, my God. You get me.

Yeah.

So that's.

I agree with you, man.

That's great. So that's a part of your strategy.

How do you elicit that? I really liked the way that you really illustrated that, man. That's really well put.

Thanks. Yeah, I mean, I take note when things like that hit me, I go, oh, that was crazy. Okay, now I got to figure out how to do that with my own prospects.

Exactly.

So speaking of that, how do you do that? How do you elicit that pillow talk? How do you elicit those deep inner core desires?

Yeah, I mean, there's two different ways of doing it. I mean, you know, when I'm talking to my clients and we're dealing with. Dealing with creating some sales letters or marketing and things of that nature, what I tend to. To ride it under is, you know, we have to kind of guess. We have to do our very best to guess. We got to put our fingers on the pulse and we got to try to guess. But I don't like to guess that much. So I like to go to Amazon. And I mean, this is, you know, I'm going to throw in one more strategy here that I'm going to place your jazzes straight from Jay Abrahams of just going straight to Amazon and going to the bestseller list. You know, go straight to the best seller list and find out, you know, in your category. You know, one of the things that Jay taught me is he said, you know, you want to go there and look under the reviews that are negative, see what People hate. That's missing. Find a missing link and speak to that pain point, you know, speak to, like you said, you know, are you quote unquote, playing entrepreneur? You know, because if you're playing entrepreneur, you know, and I can speak that word to you, then I've got you, you know, I've got you hooked and you're going to engage with me because you're going to feel understood. So, you know, there are commonalities and if you look at, you know, for example, you, one of our clients, he teaches marketing. So we said, okay, great, we're going to go ahead and we're going to look under the topics under marketing. And we went under there. And if he's here on this podcast, he'll probably kill me now that I'm kind of giving away his gold. But we went under reviews and we looked under all the negatives and we found all the common denominators and then we created a sales letter based off of all these pain points and it was incredibly successful just because of the fact that we're speaking to this. That's already there. So, you know, what I'd say is that if it's, you know, if you're dealing with kind of a, you know, non direct communication where you're not directly talking with a human live being sitting directly in front of you, I'd say, okay, great, you know, go out there, find the data that's already out there. You know, go on the forums, listen to the pulse that's already out there. And yes, it is kind of guessing because you don't know exactly if that's what the exact person reading your sales letter is going to be thinking. But it's a lot better than 100% guessing and just trying to, you know, throw it out there and, you know, shoot in the dark. So I'd say that's step number one. But if you're, if you're talking about dealing with somebody on a, you know, kind of a close combat situation where you're talking to somebody one on one, you're, you're, you're three feet apart, knee to knee. What I mean, I use a three step process. Okay, first step, the first step is I get vulnerable. I personally show that I'm a human being. I've got, you know, I'll normally say something funny, I'll break the ice, I'll break the pattern of whatever's happening. And I'll just show, look, this is not a normal conversation. I'm going to be more vulnerable than anybody else will Ever be, you know, and so that's step number one, step number two. And it's. It's important that you do step number one first, because then step number two is just to ask them to find their core purpose. And, you know, everybody has a purpose to act. So let's say that somebody's selling real estate. You know, we had a client that they were selling luxury real estate. You know, they were showing a lot of houses, but, you know, they were closing. But honestly, the leads to closing ratio was incredibly low. So we said, okay, what can we change on this? And so I put in a little microphone, I listened in on the conversation, and I was noticing it was all about the features of the product. Brad, you know this better than anybody else. It's not about features, it's about benefits, but it's also about their core reasons to act. So we changed in kind of the structure of the conversation where we said, okay, walk in, and we're just going to create just a funny joke, something that'll break the ice and then get vulnerable. And so once the person got vulnerable, you know, once the realtor got vulnerable, we said, okay, great. Step two is we're going to ask specifics. Specifically, why are you guys looking in this area? You know, why are you guys looking to buy property here in this area? Laguna beach or, you know, Laguna Niguel or, you know, Los Angeles or Beverly or. I mean, you know, why are you guys looking for this right now? You know, and really, because of the immediacy between you being vulnerable and you asking for their core reasons, it's amazing what people will tend to open up and they'll tend to share it. And the beauty is that they are going to share with you that pillow talk. They're going to share with you the reasons why they're looking for that solution that you offer. So that's number two. And then number three is just. I like to get more. So I like to ask. I like to dig, take whatever they've taken and go just one step deeper, you know, and just say, okay, great, so why don't you have it? You know, why, why, why. Why are you talking to me? Why am I part of this picture? You know, and then get yourself kind of involved in that as part of the solution to get them invested. Because it's. It's kind of what I call offensive selling versus defensive. You know, defensive is you're trying to, you know, knock down the obstacles. You're trying to chase down the problems. Yeah. You know, this is more preemptive you know, this is, this is trying to get them invested before they have a chance to, you know, pull out. Especially in an industry like real estate or, you know, copywriting or anything like that, where there's a lot of options out there. You know, CPAs, high end, you know, lawyers are another one as well that, you know, they, they do have a lot of competition, you know, and, and to stand out a lot of great ways is just to get them to invest. You know, why me? You know, why, why don't you have it yet? Why are you talking to me? You know, why. Why is this, you know, immediately impacting you now? You know, so again, I mean, that's, that's my three step process that I've used for that to just identify their core, core, core desires. Get vulnerable. Step number one, step two, you know, ask them specifically and directly, immediately after that. And thirdly, just get them more invested in talking with you, you know, why are they, you know, talking with you? Why are they connecting with you personally, you know?

Yeah, I like that a lot. I mean, those are three really.

Straightforward steps and I think it's something that a lot of people miss. They just go right into selling the, you know, selling their product, etc. So back to, back to number one and getting vulnerable. How do you. Because that's a, that can be like an ambiguous term for some people. Because how vulnerable do I get? You want me to break down and cry? What do you want me to do? So how would you suggest to somebody like, let's just say you're coaching me and I'm selling. I mean, I do, I sell consulting. So how would you suggest to me if I'm sitting down in front of a prospect that I initiate a degree of vulnerability and without being too vulnerable, because I'm sure people can open up too much. So how do you, how do you typically tell people to. Or guide people to do that?

Yeah, absolutely. And actually, you know, that's a, that's a great question. And it's funny because I was just having this conversation a couple days ago with one of my partners and we were talking about actually James Altucher, who's your mutual friend as well. And you know, I feel like, oh my God. I mean, you feel like you've known him forever just by reading one post that he writes on Facebook. You know, I mean, the guy is so real. And I think what it really comes down to is not so much what we say, to be quite frank. I think it's in the attitude that we walk into the interaction with, you know, because what I've seen with a lot of guys, and this is something Frank Kern does incredibly well. I mean, you know, Frank has a lot of beautiful ways of communicating, but I would say one of the real strengths that a lot of people don't really give him credit for is his ability to sub. Communicate vulnerability.

Okay.

You know, and you'll, you'll see him do that in, you know, whether it's, it's, you know, one of his, one of his classes or one of his, you know, live events, or whether it's a one on one, you'll see him just really become open, you know, within the first few minutes. There's like this like looseness in his physiology. There's a looseness in his voice. He's laughing, there's a lightheartedness in a vocal vulnerability and the openness.

Yeah. Frank never feels like he's talking at you. And that's a. I think that's important because there's a lot of folks out there, they feel like they're talking at you. And whether it's in person or whatever.

Well, well put. So I would say, you know, for me it's not so much like what you say, of course. Like, you know, James, I think James Altucher has, has the, you know, he's, he's mastered that art of putting it into writing. But I don't think it necessarily even has to be written. I think it just as long as you're, as you're taking off the mask mentally and you're like, you know what? I'm here and I'm, I'm open, I'm wide open. You know, it just, it's just like whatever you say, you can say, man, it's been, you know, it's been a beautiful week so far. You can say something totally positive and real, you know, or it could be something like, oh my God, you have no idea. But I'm at this cafe and you know, they just brought me this, you know, this, this coffee and it's not the one I ordered. It's crazy anyway, boom, boom, boom. And just to, just to kind of open up about anything, you know, I think we have to go first. I mean, it's that old maxim, you know, go first. You know, however much we want them to open up to us, we've got to of at least at a, you know, sub communication level. We have to do that first.

Perfect. Perfect. So then, so then after you've done this, you've got, you've, you've been vulnerable enough, you've been authentic and real. You're building rapport, you're connecting with them, you're asking to find, you know, why, you know, why are we here? What are you, you know, what's important to you. And then you kind of go deeper, you know, why don't you have it? What's, what's preventing you from getting that? So now that, and you're doing this is kind of your discovery phase. You're finding out, you know, what results do you want, why do you want them, et cetera. So at what point or how do you transition or how do you, let me rephrase it like this. How do you.

How are you, your methods unique? What do you do next?

Wrap some bacon around this whole sales process?

Yeah, I was just gonna say, man, I mean, I'm smelling some bacon cooking on my end here. I'm ready to bring this.

So my own bacon wrapped version on this is, I'd say drop all the scripts, take away every scripted conversation and just crumple it and throw it into a bag. Even if you're dealing with multiple salespeople. The strongest strategy that I've seen working companies with 500 salespeople and the thing that I've seen with solopreneurs and even the wannabes use that has taken them to the next level is to just have a structure. And so the value of a structure is that it allows you to be flexible. And honestly, like I said, how do you transition to the close? How do you get that check? How do you get the Chris Benjamin's in your pocket? I mean, at the end of the day, that's what sales is about, right? It's about closing the deal and making it actually pay. Otherwise it's just a charity or a hobby, which is not why we're here. And so, so the structure that I use and that I would recommend everybody else would use as well, or at least give it a shot and see what happens, you know, is this, number one is.

Before you go in for your clothes, you want to basically pave the way for the clothes. Okay? And so, you know, what I like to do is paving the way is all about preempting. It's all about dealing with the problems before they come up. Dealing with your typical price issues. I gotta talk to my wife issues, your typical, Let me call you back issues, Your basically handling everything beforehand, you know, and there's a variety of ways to do that. But I would say, you know, step number one is to really clear the path, okay, before you go in for Your, for your assumptive clothes or whatever kind of clothes you want to use. Clear the pathway for that. Because it's just like walking in the jungle, you know.

Give me an example of that. Give me an example of how you would clear the path. Whether it's role play or you just kind of describe it.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. You've got some sizzling bacon on this. So let me give you kind of a recent, a recent example, okay? I was talking with one of my partners, sent me over this lead and he goes, hey. He goes, this is a guy, he's kind of a hotshot in the world of business. He really is looking for some serious help. He goes, you know, he really needs some, you know, some new strategies and, you know, I don't know, maybe you can help him. I said, okay, you know, I've got some time here, just landed in Russia, let's talk. So he calls me up yesterday and I'm talking to him and I can kind of sniff it over the phone. And Brad, I'm a little bit more aggressive than your average guy out there. And I'm not aggressive in the way that, you know, like assertive.

You're assertive.

Just a little bit more assertive. So I'm talking to him and I can kind of smell in the air that we have a little bit of a, maybe a weakness. Maybe like, you know, he's a little bit weak. So I told him, I said, you know, I said, I said, you know, humans are the only animals, the only species that support the weak. And he, and he stops everything that he's saying. He goes, what do you mean? And I said, look, I said, if you're going to tell me, you know, that you don't have the time, you don't have the money, that this is not valuable to you, then you know what, my man, this is not for you. Because this is for the alpha. This is for the strong. And you know, unfortunately, you know, that's the only people that I will work with, you know, and so I said, you know, I said evolution will weed out the week. And you know, at some point in time, you know, if you don't change where you're at right now, you know, then, then you're gonna, you know, there will be repercussions down the road, you know, not, not anything that I'm gonna do. But it's just the natural law of business. If you don't bring in sales and if you don't hit the goals that you want to hit, then things will Happen. So I did all that before he told me about money issues, price issues, wife issues. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

And so, yeah, you know, it does. You know, you do have to kind of, you know, practice that a few times before you can say it in a way that's caring and it's loving. And of course, we're talking, you know, on Face to Face Skype, so you can see them smiling at him. And I've got a gleam in my eye, you know, but the. The truth of the matter is, is that if we don't pave the way, it's. It's gonna hurt them to walk through the jungle without, you know, with all the branches sticking out. Sometimes we have to go first and we got to chop those dang things out of the way. You know what I'm saying? And so, you know, sometimes what that requires is that we. We take real, real strength and we say, listen, you know, if you're going to be telling me this, and look, here's, you know, let me go there first for you. This is where that path leads, or maybe even better, ask them questions that get them to come to that conclusion themselves, which a lot of times is even better. Listen, I mean, that old Tony Robbins Dickens process.

Five years from now, if things stay where they're at right now.

What'S life going to be like? You look in the mirror. But doing this before they bring up the objections, okay, you know, and that's the major differentiation with what I do is I really, to be honest, I don't like to have to deal with. With people's objections, you know, and I find that a lot of salespeople and a lot of entrepreneurs are actually tired of dealing with objections. And so the. The best way, and it's funny because I first learned it out of martial arts. You know, I. I was doing this. I was training with this one instructor, and we were learning Krav magazine, it's an Israeli, you know, combat training. And he goes, he trains you how to identify before the fact when they're gonna punch you with what arm. And he tells you how to preempt the punch. And I remember watching him, and I thought, oh, my God, I wonder if this is, you know, possible to do psychologically. You know, I wonder if we can train ourselves to identify, you know, the objections that will come up. And I wonder if we can train ourselves to deal with them before they're a problem, you know, and as Tony Robbins would say, you know, kill the monster before it kills the city, you know, and to Deal with it while it's small. And so that's why I'd say that's the number one thing is clearing the path is dealing with the problem before it becomes a problem. It's just like preventative medicine. Does that make sense?

No, it does. And I actually do that in my own business as well. And it's a. There is an art to it because there's typically five primary objections that I find I don't have enough money or I don't know enough about, you know, I need more information on what you're doing, or I don't have enough time to commit to this, to whether it's. I don't have enough time to commit to mentoring or coaching. I don't have time to commit to putting a new software into place. I don't have time for whatever. Another objection I found is, you know, that I have to appeal to a higher authority of my partner, my wife, my husband, etc. And then, you know, and then there's other ones, like, I just don't. I don't trust you enough. I don't know if what you have will.

I don't know if you can deliver. Right. So weaving there is an art to it. And it's one of the reasons, I'm sure, that people pay you for the mentorship and consulting. Because it's hard to kind of get this in a book. It's much easier to work with somebody else one on one and understand the nuances of how to make it work and how to. Maybe I love story selling. And you can overcome objections with stories, whether it's about past clients.

Before you're ever getting into the part where you're pitching what you've got, I might be talking to you, Jonathan. Blah, blah, blah. One of my clients, it was great. One of my great, fun success stories is this guy came to me scraping by, had absolutely no money, he couldn't afford this. And I told him, don't do this if it takes food off your plate, man. He realized that if he doesn't do this, he'll never get food on his plate. And, you know, he found the money, he scraped it together, and he, you know, he was able to invest in this. But what he found is he wasn't really investing in me. He was investing in himself. And once he did that, he knew that he could light a fire under himself and accomplish anything. And you know what he did. So right now I've kind of preempted the whole money conversation because now if you tell me you don't have money. You're comparing yourself to the guy. I just told you you was in your same situation and he overcame it. So now you're saying you're less than him subconsciously?

Absolutely.

So, yeah. So little things like that.

Well put.

Yeah. I mean, it's a. Brad, that was.

That was smooth, brother. That was smooth. I, I, I'm hearing that. I'm going, man, that's, that's glossy buttery bacon right there, baby.

That's, that's.

I, I can smell that thing sizzling right now.

Oh, yeah, yeah. No, it's a, you know, sales is a. I did it for years and you know the problem I had?

I was a good closer. I could build rapport with anybody once I got in front of them. My biggest weakness was prospecting and prospecting and marketing. I knew nothing about marketing. I was a finance major and then I got into sales and I was a stockbroker and I did commercial real estate sales, etc. Etc. And what I hated, because there's two parts of sales. There's the prospect, and you have to get in front of people, but then you actually have to close them. And what I've found is true for me and is, I think, true for a lot of, of salespeople is very few salespeople, number one, are good at both. And number two, like, both, most salespeople hate the prospecting. They absolutely hate it. Like just put me in front of a client and I love to close them. But this whole talking to one out of a, you know, getting one out of a hundred people or getting ten out of a hundred people to even talk to you is, I didn't have the endurance for that because I didn't understand how to create demand and how to create trust, etc, through marketing and how to kind of how to marry the two. By the way, when it comes to. I want to ask definitely any of your favorite resources when it comes to learning this besides yourself, like books or whatever, but there was a book I read just recently by the guy who developed the salesforce.com salesforce and it's called Predictable Revenue. And that's actually kind of a boring title, except that it does, but if you're in.

But it sounds hella good, man.

Exactly. It's all predictable revenue. But if you're in that position, and this goes to what you were saying before, if you're in that position of.

Your sales, you're up, you're down, you're up, you're down. All you want is give me some damn Predictable revenue. And it talks about how to really separate those aspects of who's doing the prospecting, who's doing the appointment setting, get somebody else to do that. So a good closer is only talking to highly qualified, interested prospects, and all he's doing is closing. So once I learned how to market, how to generate leads, how to build authority with leads and trust and credibility, the closing process became infinitely easier because now they're willing to be vulnerable with you and they're willing to open up to you because you've kind of built that trust. But I hated that part. I did not have the endurance or the stubbornness, put my head down and go, I'm going to talk to 100 people to get one client.

Yeah, I mean, for some people as well, I'd say easily that, that is, you know, in some industries, you know, they're still, you know, kind of working through that exact same process of, you know, there's that, that cold calling, there's the door knocking, there's the chasing down of clients. And you know, much of what I, of what I teach and sounds like like you and I are much on the same wavelength here is very much offensively focused, you know, versus that the defense is, you know, defensive of, you know, getting out there and being the, you know, cheetah, running out and trying to chase down these, these guys just maybe taking a step back and.

Looking at it from a more objective strategic standpoint and saying, what is the outcome? Are we trying to be busy here? Are we just trying to run around and just talk to hot leads all day? Or are we trying to close some deals? Because there is a desperation issue that you don't have it, obviously. But I know, especially in the first few years of business and of sales that I was in myself, I can tell you hands down, when people smell that desperation of your at your 80th cold call of the day, you know, it's like, oh my God. I mean, you know, especially, you know, when you're, when you're selling a higher ticket item, you know, it really works that much worse against you, you know. So I'd say I definitely agree with you. You know, I mean, the essential way to get that set up is really to get in touch with some great guys who are great at marketing lead generation, you know, and, you know, find ways to way to nurture leads if you can, if you have the ability to get out there, and everybody does, to get in touch with somebody who really knows what they're doing, you know, that's the way you Know what? If I can make a quick shout out, actually, to somebody who's helped me out tremendously in this area. His name is Benjamin Pottinger. Ben Pottinger. And he's just an absolute, just Facebook genius. He works with a lot of the, the bigger name guys, and he works behind the scenes. And this guy knows, knows, knows, knows how to, how to use Facebook and these different, you know, online world strategies. And honestly, for me, as, you know, kind of just as a general list of just knowing what I knew, you know, in business, I didn't know how to do these kind of things, and Ben really, really took me to that next level, so.

So he helps generate and nurture the leads.

Oh, my God, Ben. Ben's the man. And if, and if, if he has an opening and if he can take you on as, as a, as a client.

He'S. He's worth his weight in, in gold. I mean, how people get a hold.

Of Ben if they want to, like, I can put a link.

Yeah, yeah. Let me, let me actually look right now. I want to make sure that I give you guys an accurate website. Yeah.

And you can always. And you can always ping me and I'll put it in the show notes.

Okay. Yeah, sure. I believe it's. It's Ben Pottinger dot com.

Oh, perfect.

Yeah, Ben. So, Ben Pottinger dot com. So P O T T I N G E R dot com.

So that's great. And, you know, speaking about the whole lead, nurturing, nurturing, building credibility before you actually sit down with people, you're actually doing that right now. This is content marketing. You're on the show, you're telling people you're not selling anybody. Right now, we're just having a conversation, and you're talking a little bit about your background. And then the idea here is that if somebody is in sales or they need to be, or they're not as sharp as they'd like to be, they're listening to you right now. You're actually building credibility with people. You're getting out there so that when people talk to you for the first time, it's not the first thing they've ever heard of you. You can do this with blog posts, with webinars, with all types of things. And what you're doing right now is perfect. And I encourage anybody else, if you're in sales, get out there, be seen as a thought leader. One of the. I don't know if you do this. Are you familiar with Clarity fm? So this is a cool little tool of the day. Clarity. Clarity C L A R I T Y FM is, they call it business advice on demand or something like this. So it's free to register as an expert. So you can register as an expert in multiple things, as I have. You can go to Clarity fm Brad Costanzo, and then you can go register as, let's just say, an expert in sales and business development. What this allows people to do is when they need help, it's almost like finding mentors. You can put down how much you charge by the minute or by the hour. It totally depends. It can be $600, 1000, 2000. It could be, you know, a dollar a minute, 50 cents a minute, it doesn't matter. You just put that down. People can then see what you offer, see reviews of former calls, and then they can, if they like you, they request a call. When they request a call, they say, yes, I am willing to spend whatever it is, $5aminute, $2aminute for your time with a minimum of 15 minutes. And I can get on there and I can ask you a little bit about, you know, tell you my problem, et cetera, et cetera. And what's great about this is number one, the search engine optimization. The SEO juice you get for Clarity FM is huge. I think it's number two or number three for my first name. And I've never built a backlink to it ever. And people come across it and they see, yeah, I'm, I'm charging money for my time, which is really kind of funny because I actually advise all my clients never to charge for your time. And I really only do this for first time calls because it allows me to, it allows me to help somebody out potentially get some good, build some good relationships, which has worked for that. And then it is a prospecting tool for me because if I talk to somebody, I don't talk to somebody multiple times. You can't always get me for $2 an hour or whatever my rate.

$2Aminute.

Exactly.

But, but hey, listen, if you want to take the next step, let's go ahead and, you know, go on to the, you know, let me tell you about my programs, et cetera, et cetera. But it's a really cool way to just kind of get your name out there and proactively, I guess. Proactive reputation management, but also potential lead generation. But I highly recommend it for you, for anybody listening. That's my cool tool o the day.

I love it, man.

Yeah.

So anything else you're working on these days, any big projects, any big initiatives what are you trying to accomplish?

Well, man, I mean, thanks for asking that. I mean, right now it's just we're working on some cool, exciting things coming up here. In the next six, seven months. We're going to be doing some intensive. I don't want to call it a mastermind. You know, it's going to be a kind of a real great experience. We're going to take a group of guys out to Greece and go out to some islands and do some, do some, do some fun stuff out there, you know, just to kind of, you know, break through fears and, you know, to get, get clear on the goals that we have and to get clear on, you know, the strategies and kind of, you know, connect and do a little bit of masterminding and just, just have a blast, you know. So that's kind of what, you know, that's. That's the newest and latest and greatest that I've got, you know, coming on, on my end right now as we're.

We're doing.

Doing some initial planning on that. But that's good. I'd say that's it, brother.

Cool. So now if somebody wants to work with you and say, hey, Jonathan, help me break down my sales process, and I want to get better. I want to get as good as you are or even a fraction of as good as you are, how do they get ahold of you? How do they work? How do people work with you if they're interested?

Yeah, I'd say the best way to get a hold of me, Brad, is on my Facebook, just because everything else goes through assistance and blah, blah, blah. If you want to get. I mean, this is kind of a secret way to get ahold of me, but it's the best way. So if you go on to Facebook.

Jondec, you can get on there and just add me on there, follow me, whatever, and then just send me a message and let me know that you heard me on the Bacon show.

And I'll know what it's about and then we can go ahead and schedule a time and connect up. Perfect.

Perfect. Well, Jonathan, I really appreciate your time here today. This has been really insightful. I love your process, I love your approach, and it's refreshing to hear. And I hope that everybody else who's listened to this and listened to Jonathan has taken good notes and seek him out if you want more help in this. It's an area that no matter what you're doing, selling is important. Whether you're working in a cubicle and you're working for the man. And you need to eventually sell yourself on a promotion or a raise. Persuasion and sales are highly important, and it's one of the skills that you will not learn in college. You won't learn really anywhere except in the trenches. And doing it or with mentors. And a mentor in sales is definitely. I mean, it's. It's even better than a college education in it because you get a mentor, you go out there, you practice it, you improve. It's trial, it's error. It's one of the most noble professions there is. And it's. I highly recommend it to anybody, even if you're, you know, if you're in marketing, you need sales. If you're in sales, you need marketing. Little bit of both. You know, if you like this show, I appreciate you jumping on itunes and leaving a review. If you're not sure how to leave a review, I created a tutorial over on baconrampbusiness.com.

Reviews and there's a quick little tutorial there. I read every single review and I read every single email that I've been getting. I've been getting a flood of emails to askbradaconrappbusiness.com if you're interested in my.

Advice, I have for you. If you want a second opinion on your business, marketing, sales strategy, whatever it is, is I'm happy to see if I can help you or connect you with the people that can. That's one of the benefits of having a show like this is I connect with folks like Jonathan, you and a lot of other folks to where if I can't solve your problem, I guarantee I know somebody who can. And I read every single email, I read every single review, and I look forward to hearing more from everybody else. Also, if you like the show, share it with your friends, talk about it, ask them if they.

Heard Bacon wrap business. It's the way we grow. And the more we grow, the more I do these shows. Jonathan, I really want to thank you for your time this morning and let you know, you know, the, you know, if anybody emails me and says, brad, hook me up with Jonathan.

All right, brother. Sounds. Sounds excellent. Great to connect.

Cool. Enjoy. Russia.

Sam.