The Power of Mastermind Groups: How to Get Started | Tom Ferry Podcast Experience

So here's the thing. Entrepreneurs, leaders, salespeople, we all want to create consistent, repeatable, and scalable ways to grow our business and our income. And we want to do it better, faster, and more seamlessly. Why? So we can actually enjoy our lives, take vacations, and spend the quality time we want with the people that we love. How do we do all this without spending a fortune or running ourselves ragged? That's the big question. And this show is dedicated to the answer.

Sometimes in life, we get invited to things that we don't want to attend. And I've always been a fan of sometimes you just gotta say yes. Well, it was, I think, August of 1989, and my father said to me, there's a meeting going on downstairs in a ballroom. I really don't want to attend. Would you go in my presence? Like, be. Be me there in the meeting? I'm like, well, first of all, tough shoes, but sure. And I remember walking into the room, and as I peeled open the door, I looked at this boardroom, and I saw 16 of the best agents that attend all of his conferences. And they were sitting around the room and they were idea sharing. They're saying, but what about. And how did you do this? And they were revealing. And I stepped in and everybody went quiet and of course said, where's your father? And I said, he can't make it. But he asked me to come and take notes and to learn and to help facilitate. So I'm just honored to be in your presence. And I sat down and I watched these 16 people battle and argue and debate and share and reveal. And in that day, I said to myself, this could be the most important room I've been in in my career. It was the first time I was ever in a mastermind group. Only later did I read Think and Grow Rich Intelligently to discover that that was one of the most important principles of that book, right? How do you ride on the shoulders of giants? How do you do and learn in an hour? John, what takes the average person a decade? You sit amongst a group of really intelligent people that are willing to reveal their losses, their upsets and their victories to R and D and go do that faster than anybody else. So today I've got three of our best and brightest here with me on my podcast because we've been talking about doing a show about how do we do mastermind groups. So, Val, you're really the origin behind all this, right? I don't know if you're the origin behind the group, but you and I communicate so often. So why don't we just very quickly go around and just introduce ourselves so everybody knows who we've got. So Val, you want to start first?

Sure. I'm Valerie Upham and I'm in San Diego.

That was a quick introduction. I like beat that, John.

I'll go a little longer. I'm John Bathurst. I'm in Manhattan beach and I cover the coastal market of Los Angeles. And with Compass.

There you go, Zach.

Thanks, Tom.

Yeah.

I'm Zach Nelson with the Nelson team in Denver, Colorado, also with Compass. And I work on a family team with my mom and my sister and we've been working together for about 21 years now.

Outstanding. So how long have you all been masterminding?

So Patrick, our coach, Zach and mine said to Zach and I about nine years ago, start a mastermind. Here's who I want. You. It was all Patrick's coaching clients throughout the country, from west coast to east coast. And we started and when we did it, we were using Uber conference.

Yes.

At 6:30 in the morning, Pacific Standard Time. Using Uber Compass. Way before people were doing video zoom. Right.

Yeah.

And the group, you know, sort of evolved over time. I think we were. Our group actually shrunk to about five or six agents.

Yeah.

And then we started building again. And what we have today, we've been together now, I mean, most.

I've been in the group for three and a half years and I'm kind of. There's 15 in the group.

Yeah.

And I'm probably came in as what, number eight or nine?

Yeah.

Yes.

We're 15 strong right now and really strong.

So. So why are you guys in it? I mean, like we. We're all being pulled a thousand different directions. Why spend that time? And then I want to unpack, like how do you do it? And the sausage making behind it and you know, just get some insight there.

But.

So Zach, why do you show up on these calls.

Before I was in this Mastermind group, I mean, I coached with Patrick, with your brother for a few years, and I got a lot of value out of it, but I didn't know what I was missing. Yes. And once I started to connect with other like minded professionals who are at the top of their game and want to elevate their games, then I saw exactly what it was that so many other successful agents were experiencing.

Yes.

Yes.

It's almost like the problem. No problems.

Yeah.

You know, you don't know. Like the old story of like you, you drive every day to the office the same way every single day. And you just kind of get into that routine, and even though you're all highly successful, you don't know. And then one day they close the road and you take a new route, and you realize you got to the office four minutes faster, and you're like, I've been driving to the office for five years, back and forth every day, wasting eight minutes every single day, six, seven days a week. You don't even know that you have the problem until you get in the presence of others and you realize it's. If Valerie can do it, you could do it. Or in the case of, like, some videos and other things, if John's doing it, it's working. Hey, John, we're in different markets. I'm stealing your exact video. Right. So, Valerie, what about you?

For me, I remember about 10 years ago, we were at an event, and you said to the audience, you really need to be in a mastermind. And it took a while. And I remember wanting to be in Gandry Wilson's Mastermind, and I now am. So I'm actually in two masterminds.

Wow.

But it took that long. And so when you asked me, it was a huge complimen, and I wanted to be at the table with people who were sharing ideas. Because when we go to events, we get to share ideas, but then there's this void in between.

Yes.

So I feel like when we're together and we're together weekly, and we'll even have offshoots of that weekly meeting on other topics if we want to focus on YouTube or accountability for making our calls.

Mini masterminds off the mastermind.

Exactly, exactly. So it's more than the accountability for me. I come up with all these crazy ideas, and I want to share those with the group to see which ones. Ones make the most sense. And when something works for me, I want to share it with them so that they can then master it as well.

So the first part of that is a feedback loop. Like, hey, I'm thinking about this. What do you guys think? And then, you know, what if, like, John says, hey, I tried that two years ago. Total waste.

Exactly.

And then Zach says, hey, I did it a little bit. And it kind of worked. Like, do you guys massage all that and try and work it out?

Like Chris Kwan, who's in our group.

Yeah, Chris.

He talked to us about ChatGPT over two years ago.

Yes.

And we're.

It was like, just as it was coming online, like, really becoming popular.

November. November 2023. Yes, I know. 22nd. November 22nd.

Yeah. And you know what's interesting about this group is the accountability. When we first started the group, having people show up every single week was really difficult.

Yes.

I mean, Patrick said. Patrick Ferry, you know, your brother, he says, you know, put a. Put a fee on it. If they don't show up, they have to put 50 bucks into the kitty.

Yep.

And we did that for a while and we collected some money and then people left, and then we kind of reorganized. Now everybody just shows up.

Yes.

I mean, they don't want to miss out.

Right?

I agree. It's a bit like coaching. I mean, we coach every week with our coaches, and so it's like, we don't want to miss this because when we're there, we know that we're improving our business. It's holding us accountable to do the things. And if some of us miss, I feel bad. If I miss, like, I feel like I'm letting people down in the group.

Yes.

You don't want to miss something because they. Maybe last week they shared a win or a listing appointment they were going to go on. And then you want to hear the next week if they got it it. And we have a text chain too, where we go.

Oh, yeah.

Well, I mean, listen, I think the internal rule is. And I'm sorry, if you're watching this and you're a new coaching client, if you're not in multiple group chats inside of the ecosystem, you're missing something. Right?

Absolutely.

It's just like, oh, did everybody hear that idea? Let's unpack that later.

Right.

Like, so. So I have been a mastermind groups, I would say, arguably my entire professional career. You know, even today I just started a new one called the founders. And it's like 16 guys and gals, and everybody's a CEO, founder, startup, big company, small company, one CRO. But it's the CRO of a huge company. And we just like the text exchange. There's so much value in the text exchange. And people like, hey, did you read this article? Hey, did you find out this? Like, literally, hey, Perplexity is looking to buy TikTok Ferry. Didn't you invest in TikTok or in Perplexity? Oh, my God, yes, I did. Like, right. Like, just. It's like real time. Like, here's what's going on. Some of the brightest minds. And like, for me, it's not entertaining. It is like data consumption.

Yes. Yep.

So, all right, so let's play a game, though. The person listening desperately wants to get into a mastermind group, but they Don't. They don't belong to our ecosystem. You're indirectly a part of it, but, like, you know, you haven't officially gotten in yet. Can they start one on their own?

Sure.

How do they do it?

We're going to help them.

Let's talk about it.

Well, I know this is going to probably air after the event.

Yes, yes.

But we have. We're doing a breakout for this week.

Yes. Okay. No, no, no. Don't talk about that, because this is gonna. This is gonna come out like the next week.

Okay, gotcha.

And that's tomorrow.

Okay.

How do I start, Zach? How do I start a mastermind group?

I think you have to be able to have some network of other agents that you put it out there. I mean, there's probably a lot of people who think about it, but they don't. They don't take the initiative. So first of all, it takes initiative. You know, you want to do it, and there's going to be other people who will follow.

Yes.

So if you at least put that out there to other agents.

Who do I put it out to?

It could be people. Well, I mean, for our.

Should I be masterminding with local agents in my market?

You can. We. We like the fact that we're all in different markets.

I agree.

Every one of us is in a different market.

Priority to be in different markets. Okay.

And it depends on your goal. You can have a mastermind group in your own city, but, like, you could be at different ends of the county where you're helping each other, but it depends on the goal. So you have to have a common goal. I have a mastermind group that is not with real estate agents. It's with my financial planner, the cpa, the attorneys, and we have a common goal. So first is figuring out what that goal is and then joining with a group of people and inviting them in and deciding on a time that we're.

Do you think there's, like, a vetting process for who gets in and who doesn't?

Absolutely.

What's the vetting process?

Part of it is who do we know? The people, of course, if we're going to know the people, but then we can vouch for them. We can look at, you know, what they do. Like, if they have a specialty. There's some. Everybody in our group, we specialize in certain aspects of our business, and so we look for diversity among.

That's good.

You know, like, we can give to.

You and you can give to us, and collectively we all get better.

Exactly, exactly. Because that's I mean, when you. If all of us were great with just our SOI and our clients.

Well, that's the same. It's just more the same.

That's right. Yeah.

That's good. Okay. Do you guys have rules?

We used to. I don't know that we do.

Yeah.

We just show up. You need to be on camera.

Yeah.

And if you miss too many meetings, and I don't know how many because I'm always there, so. But if you miss too many meetings, then that's not okay. And we'll call you out on it. And also, you have to be in coaching because that's what our common thread is.

Yeah, Common thread. Common theme. We're all going for performance.

And you have to go to at least one event, one Tom Ferry event a year.

Yeah.

So you have to participate.

Yeah.

You have to bring value.

Yeah.

You have to give as much as you get.

Yeah. So in my case, it's very similar. We always had like, hey, we're all, we're all in the space of, say, residential or prop tech. We're all founding, you know, whether it's SaaS based companies or service based companies. So we all, we all share this in common. But for me, part of this founders group is. And none of us compete. So one of the mastermind groups you guys would know was myself and a guy named Steve Harney, who was the founder of kcm, and then my buddy Austin, who started a little company called dotloop, and then Picasso, and then my Freddy Greer, who started Boomtown. And the four of us would meet all the time and these guys were blown away like that. We would all be able to be in a place where we could share so freely, so openly about. Here's my P and L. This is what's going on. These are the challenges that I'm facing. And there is a therapeutic element, at least in our groups. We get very vulnerable, very honest. It's very circle of trust. You know, what stays in the room. Right. Stays in the room. And the only other game that we would play was if you sell your business, you're out. So when Austin sold his company to Zillow, we're like, dude, we love you. You're out. And then Greer sold his business. I was like, you're out. Gotta start a new group.

Yeah.

Right. So no rules, but rules. More commonality and values.

Yes.

So walk me through a typical. If people were looking for a model for a typical Zoom meeting, is it 10 minutes? Is it four hours? You know, and what do you talk about? Does somebody lead each one? Is it just a random, like, how does it work? All of the best players have the best coaches.

You and your business are no different. It's time to get in the game. Find your real estate coach today.

In the first year of, in my coaching, I doubled my business and I had been a veteran agent of 12 years and couldn't break that glass ceiling. And this ecosystem changed that for me. My coach helped me level up on so many aspects of my business, but doubling my business was like, game over.

So it's an hour long and we've done different formats. So for example, one format when 12 week year became popular, then we said for this quarter, for this next 12 weeks, we're going to focus on that.

I love it.

So that was our agenda then, usually after an event. So after summit, then we'll all get together, we'll talk about the talking points and what we benefited from and then we'll all decide like we were really interested. So right now we're really interested in YouTube videos. So that has become the topic starting out. I think it's a little more difficult.

I think in the beginning what one should do is have one person in the group take a week.

Yeah.

And so in the other mastermind group that I'm in with Gantry, we all take a week and we're responsible for the topic of that week. We're all contributing during that meeting, but there's an initiator of what the content's.

Going to be and the topic doesn't. You don't have to be an expert in the topic, but if you're not the expert, you want to talk about video, bring a guest speaker on to talk about video.

I was going to ask you to bring in guest experts.

We bring our coaches on, we bring guest speakers in, smart people. Those speakers have come on and they've joined our group when they've kind of passed the test.

Yeah.

And we've, we've brought, I mean, a lot of, a lot of other people within the ecosystem as well because we know, you know, when they've specialized in something, you know that we want to learn more about that. It's like we're not that expert. Like come to us, give us. Exactly. So that's been extremely valuable.

I do the same thing with this founders group. So I have a friend of mine who the first time I met him was like maybe 13, 14 years ago. We've known each other for almost 20 years. But, you know, you can know someone but not actually know. And we were On a snowboarding trip. And I think you've heard me tell this story that he had his laptop open and I had my laptop open. I'm like, hey man, what are you doing over there? He's like, just reviewing the 2,000 appointments that we booked this week for my sales team. And I was like, come again? Well, now that guy is the chief revenue officer of a nearly $700 million a year business called Three Day Blinds. That same company has grown exponentially. Sold twice right now, owned by Hunter Douglas, a global, you know, drapery and mini blinds. So I was like, hey, Dan, would you come to this founders meeting? And you know your company does 700 million and everybody else could be a startup or, you know, 2 million, 3 million, 5 million, 30 million, 50 million, whatever it is and just talk about what it is you do. So same thing. And of course he was like, can I be a part of the group? He's like, I love these guys. This is super fun. Like so. So I think there's something to that. Do you guys do any like books clubs? Do you do any, like, hey, let's all listen to this. Let's all study that.

Any of that stuff happen.

The 12 week year? I mean, that's one thing. We've Dustin Fox's book.

I forget the name of the atomic habits.

We do a lot there. And I think that the.

Well, what I was gonna say is the result of it is we've come such a close family.

Yes.

And it's a safe space. I mean, there's different personalities, there's different.

Religious beliefs, geopolitical beliefs and all this stuff.

No politics. Talking about rules.

Yes, yes.

I'm always reminded of people of that one.

But everybody respects each other. And when we're at these events, we usually do some stuff, fun stuff together.

I would imagine. I would imagine.

Okay, like today, eight of us from the group, we went to Epcot and we all have matching shirts with our names on them and our markets on the back.

Yeah.

In Disney font.

I love it.

So it's a little branding, a little promotion. Sure, why not? Good photos.

That's cool.

And when one of us is sick or we've had a loss in our family, we'll all get together separate from that individual and we'll say, hey, what are we going to get them? And then we send them a gift.

Yeah, well, it's just you become like, like I think every great mastermind group there's. We're going to idea share, we're going to grow together. We're going to work together. But somebody's going to be down, somebody's going to need help, whatever it may be. We all kind of rally around that person. No doubt. What do you do if you start a mastermind group and you realize you selected people that wanted to belong but don't want to contribute?

We call John.

He's the heavy force.

He's the heavy.

I. I'm the heavy. Yeah. I don't know how I became that, but I. But I am. And again, we have, you know, heart to heart conversation with them one on one. Not as a group ganging up, but just, you know, kind of talking about we, you know, we have rules, but they're kind of like unwritten rules of showing up, participating, video on, you know, you know, taking the charge one week.

Yeah.

Of talking about something.

Be a contributing force in the group.

Yep.

Yeah.

And. And that conversation isn't like, hey, you're out. It's what's going on in your life. Are you okay?

Yeah.

Because maybe there's something happening that we don't need, you know, we don't know about.

Well, that's generally what the case is when people aren't participating.

Always. Yeah.

Yeah. Tanya Jones will always, like, do little hearts and things like that. In the last month, I'm like, what's going on? Where is she? She's really encouraging in the group and she just had a lot going. They lost a dog, so she disappeared for a while. So we check in. I think that's really important.

So I'm gonna share something. And I would like to know from the three of you, looking back over your three and a half years, your nine plus years of being in this mastermind group, was there a moment that shifted your business?

I have a story about that. It's not my business, but it's someone in our group.

Yeah.

So Tracy Farrell is now in Park City, Utah. I know Tracy, and she shared a story with me last night that was really touching. She said that left Orange county and she moved to Park City, that she was considering just quitting real estate altogether. She had a child. She was going to be a stay at home mom. And John invited her into the group. And at the time, Chris Kwan had just joined the group. And she said that when she found that out, she's like, I need to up my game. And she said yes. And she said she faked it till she made it. Now she made. She sold 30 million this last year. So she's. I mean, she would not have been where she is now had John not well.

And she says, john, you saved my career. No, I didn't.

Well, but, you know, we open and we close doors. So I'll give you an example that everyone that knows the company keeping current matters. So we would do it with that, with that one little mastermind group, the four people I mentioned, myself included, we would do very analytical, deep dive, critical thinking exercises on each other's companies. So, Austin, why is it that when I'm inside of dotloop, it takes four clicks to get to this? I should be able to do that in one click and. All right. Oh, well, let me tell you all the reasons why in the internal sausage making. And I'll have to talk to my engineers. Well, fast forward two months later, it's one click and you get there, Right? So we're all sitting in a room, and I don't know who ultimately gets the credit for this, but we were talking about Steve at kcm, you know, Big Steve, you know, God bless him, right? And he's like, well, you know, it's just hard, you know, there's just, you know, agents. Like, there's just not enough agents that want to know the market. And I said, steve, I don't think it's like, they don't want to know the market. Everyone has to know the market. I think the struggle is I get your material from KCM and I post it on Facebook, and the only people that get credit is kcm. And I think it was maybe Greer who said, dude, just let the agent put their face on it and their contact information and personalize it, because that's important in marketing. They had like 3,000 subscribers. A year later, they had like 10,000 subscribers. Did their marketing improve?

Yes.

No.

No.

It was.

The only thing was they'd be on stage and saying, you're gonna get all this great stuff. And, Zach, you can put your face on it, put your contact. So when you share that, they know you understand the market. And that was it. And now Steve had been in the business for seven or eight years, right? And he knows that real estate agents want to put their face in their contact book because we're branding our business. This is me. I'm here to help. Right.

But we need that feedback because we're just in a silo otherwise.

Exactly. So do you all ever, like, say, everybody put in your listing presentations, everybody grab one that isn't yours and critique it.

We haven't done or something exactly like that. We've presented on there. Like, I've done my buyer consultation on there and presented that. And Then got feedback from people and made some tweaks and improvements on it. It was like, I blind. We have blind spots, you know, and so we need to have that.

Well, you made improvements to yours, but then we all made improvements to our own as well.

1,000%.

Yeah.

But that. That's where I think, like, to me, when I look at masterminds.

I've done this with another. With another group I belong to. So we. We all took everybody's P and L without any personal details, drop it into ChatGPT and say, my friend wants to get a 30% lift in his margins and he wants a 20% lift in ordinary income coming from the business. What are the adjustments he needs to make? And everybody did it to their P and LS to somebody else's. And it was like, hey, man, it says you waste a ton of money over here and you have this big bucket called marketing, and it doesn't know what to do with it. So it cut in half. Right. Like, it was just. It was fascinating just to be able to like. Because it's fun to talk ideas, but I'm in this mindset and maybe it's just the mastermind groups that I am part of. It's like, we don't want to beat each other up, but we do want to talk about the blind spots. We want to talk about the biases. We want to look for the areas of massive lift that this person just isn't seeing. And it's hard because we're all so busy and we're all so good at what we do that we oftentimes don't have that really analytical, critical look at our business. It's hard to be on the hot seat. But, man, when it's over, you're just like, I'm going to make so much more money. I'm going to serve so many more people. This is going to be so. Or I'm going to get more time back. So do you guys do some of that stuff?

Yeah, I mean, in our group. You know John Harrison in New York City? I love John. He's our. He's our analytical guy.

Oh, yeah, he's our analytical guy. Yeah.

I mean, he is operationally sound as any agent is.

Did John not show one of my buddies in my building a unit? Did you guys hear about this in New York City? I don't know. I gotta follow up with John on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a friend who just randomly bought an apartment in New York City, but I think John showed him something. I don't Know if he bought from John? John, if you're watching this. Sorry.

Yes.

He created a cookie jar. It's a spreadsheet with all we put all of our ideas in. So if ever we aren't sure what we're going to talk about the next week, then we can go back to the cookie jar. We all have topics and links and.

Yeah, that's good. All right. So as we wrap up this show, I think it's evident to the person that's listening, one, they should start a mastermind. Right. There's no doubt. Right on the shoulders of others. Accelerate everything faster. Learn from everybody else's successes and mistakes. Any sort of closing thoughts around masterminds?

The key element for masterminding, in terms of numbers, you could have a mastermind of four people.

Yep.

But we recommend eight is the perfect amount because when you go to dinner together.

Table of eight.

Table of eight.

Preferably round.

Breaking bread is extremely important. Together.

What's that again?

Breaking bread together is extremely important. So when we go to an event, we have. We always have a dinner or some sort of meal.

We make sure that always. That we're getting together and. And it's. I have to say, it's one of the things that I look forward to the most in the year. I mean, it really is.

I agree.

One of the things about, you know, attending one event a year is that we come back with so many, not necessarily new ideas, but just implementing and we come back so energized and those are the first things we talk about on our next call.

Yes. It doesn't always have to be new ideas. Just wait for the next couple days. But it's sometimes it's just I'm now ready for that idea at all your level. It's more like I now have room and capacity for that idea. I've wanted to do for a long time. I mean, a lot of you put off video for a while and then finally you were like, okay. And that, you know, that's still not a new idea. Wasn't when I started in 2007.

So we're on a YouTube, a mini mastermind for YouTube right now. Because we all want to up our game in YouTube.

Yeah, smart.

Can I. So we talking about kind of leveling up as far as, you know, the ideas and, you know, implementation. For me, one of the biggest things has been the referrals and connections. You know, I mean, that. That is. My business has grown by leaps and bounds. When we really started to come together as a group and helping each other, I Have one quick example. So there was a referral post for an agent in Texas, in Dallas, who was looking for an agent in Denver. And somebody in the group called it out and said, hey, Misty, do you know this agent, Misty Stewart here in Dallas, you know, or in Dallas? And Misty said, you know what? She's actually, she's in my office. Let me call her. She calls her advocates for me. And because of that call, I got the buyer and close them. So it's like those kinds of things that we do for each other that going above and beyond that has been just game changer.

Well, I'll piggyback on it. You said it earlier that it's okay for you to mastermind with local people in your marketplace. A friend of mine, Ron, who now runs Rate G Rate, years ago, I mean like, like 29 years ago, we created a thing called Power Players. So he had like Maxine Gallons, Greg Nooter, a bunch of the best agents in all of San Diego county. And he as the lender got them all together. Once a month they would share listings. And this is maybe back in the day when it wasn't as frequent for you to say I'm in Del Mar and I'm going to go sell a house in Chula Vista. You would just refer somebody down to Chula Vista, where it seems these days a lot of people will make that drive. And. Right. So back then, but it was awesome because once a month, even in your local marketplace, you got together with a bunch of the best agents. And even though none of them directly competed because they were all in separate territories, they were all in San Diego. Then they started running full page ads in the San Diego whatever, Tribune or whatever. It was this full page out of the map of San Diego county with all of their faces. And I mean, it was like if you were in that group and you were in San Diego back in the day, you were a legit rock star and it made everybody. And they were all, you know, Cole, Banker, Banana, Era, C21 didn't make a difference. Independent, all separate. But that was really interesting positioning.

Yeah, it's fun.

It'd be fun for you guys to think about how you could do the same thing, even if it was with a map. I belong to this network of people.

We've talked about this. It just hasn't happened yet, but I'll do it.

35% referral fees. Just kidding. Yeah.

Talking about being in the same market, there are two people in our mastermind group. Jen Collins is in Danville and Tanya Jones and they're both in the same market. And when we were doing the interview process, we couldn't choose between which one.

They were both great.

They came, they stepped up to the plate and said, we don't care that we're in the same market. We're not here to compete. We're here to be in the Mastermind. Because there are a lot of referrals that go back and forth, of course, but they. They were the bigger people. And we have two great people that contribute in different ways.

I love it.

There's a big difference between a Mastermind and a referral group. 1000 referrals are a byproduct of the Mastermind.

Exactly.

Yes. It's.

Well, it's like San Diego. Oh, my God, Val. Right? It's just like, oh, Manhattan Beach. Gotta call John. Right? Like, because. Because you guys become friends, you know, you're helping one another when someone's down and when someone's up and ideas. So it makes a ton of sense.

And a lot of times it's one degree of separation.

Always. Always. Well, I'm really proud of you guys. Congrats. I mean, nine years now with the Mastermind.

Right.

So I'll give kudos to my brother Patrick. Congratulations. All right. A newbie. Three and a half years in. Step it up, Val. All right, so, hey, if you want, you're gonna see their Instagram handles down there. Make sure you reach out. If you got a question, you want to go deeper, absolutely do that. And hey, thank you always for being a part of our community. And look, Maybe, just maybe 20, 25 is the year that you form a Mastermind group or join a mastermind group so you can ride on the shoulders of giants and accelerate faster with the collective insights versus just trying to do it on your own. I wish you all the best. We'll see you on the next show. Take care.

If you want more information about this episode, including my show, notes, mentions, links, and everything else, make sure you visit to Ferry.com podcast. That's TomFerry.com podcast. Thanks again, and talk to you soon.