Why Biblical Sales Beats Traditional Selling with Myron Golden | Ep. 362

One of the best ways to commit not having a plan B. Once I found something that worked, I just refined it. I sell from a biblical perspective. And so if I want to be great at sales, I have to sell to serve the people, not sell so the people can serve me. Number two, love your clients so much that you would never sell them anything that would do them harm.

I hate the old saying that, oh, they are so good they could sell ice to an Eskimo. No, I'm not going to sell ice to an Eskimo. I'm going to sell them a coat, I'm going to sell them warmer gloves. That's what Myron's talking about. You're selling them what they need based on the problems you help them find.

Most salespeople who are terrible think that selling is convincing people to buy something they don't want to buy.

Exactly.

Persuasion and convincing are not just not the same, they are actually opposites of each other. Convincing is when I attempt to get you to do something I desire you to do for my reasons. Persuasion is when I help you make a decision you already desire to make for your own reasons.

All right, Jeremy Miner, welcome to another episode. Now look, you want to learn how to persuade, influence and sell at the highest level. You're going to want to pay attention to the guest that I have today. I've even studied a lot of his material as well which has helped us as an organization, a sales training organization. So this gentleman, let me give you a little bit of his background, is a business growth strategist. He's also a best selling author and he specializes in speaking from stage and helping entrepreneurs scale, scale their companies. He's got a business called Skillionaire. It's all about the skills. We talk about the skills. Skills pay the bills, right? And Myron we're going to talk about it. Combines biblical principles with practical business tactics to help his clients achieve rapid sustainable success. He's got a couple books, Trash man to the Cash man actually have that and boss moves. And he offers actionable insights into live programs and events and how you actually frame your offer because it's not about your solution. Your solution could be the best thing in the world. But to the prospect's mind, those solutions kind of sound similar. They don't really know the difference. So it's all how you frame your offer, how you frame your solution which is going to separate you from everybody else. Byron golden, welcome to the show.

Thank you, thank you. Glad to be here.

I mean Goldman, we could change your last name Goldman. I like that dude.

There you go.

Okay, so first of all, you know, we got, everybody here is in sales. They want to persuade, they want to influence in some way.

Sure.

How did you get involved in sales?

Yeah, kind of. Incidentally.

I first got involved in sales not knowing I was involved in sales. I came home from my first first year in college. I came home for the summer. I bought a car out of the Paxang harold in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania for $50.

$50. $50.

Drove it around all summer. I knew it wasn't going to drive back to Indiana from Pennsylvania.

Okay.

So a friend of mine said, hey, do you want to sell that car? Yes, I do. How much do you want for it? $300. He gave me $300 for a car that I bought 50 bucks for. That's.

That's your first sales experience?

That was my first sales experience, yeah. And then.

When I was done with college and I got married, I was looking for something to do, and one of my college professors, former college professor, said, hey, do you want to make a lot of money? No.

No. It's like asking somebody, do you like to drink water?

Right.

No.

No. Yeah, I'm allergic to water. Right. And I said, I said, yeah. He said, well, my brother in law just got started with this business, he's making a lot of money, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, okay, I'm open for that. He says, well, let me see if we can find a local office. And it was an office that sold insurance and investments.

Okay.

Through the company called AL Williams, which later became Primerica. It was, it was network marketing of insurance and mutual funds. And so I went to the office for an interview. My wife and I both went for some reason, but we both went, saw their presentation. I thought, oh my goodness. And the guy who had the office was making $10,000 a month in 1985. That was a lot of cash in the jacket.

The 60 grand a month now, 70 grand a month, Right?

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So. So I got started in that. But I was terrible.

Yeah, imagine that.

I was terrible.

So you're terrible.

So like really terrible, not kind of terrible.

So you're suggesting you weren't born with like advanced questioning skills or advanced tonality skills?

Oh, no, I had advanced, like really messing up sales skills. Like, I was terrible. I, I did presentation after presentation after presentation. Yeah. And literally did present gobs and gobs of presentations for a year and a half before I made my first sale.

Interesting. Why is it so network marketing? It's a Big industry, we train. And I always have an issue with network marketing. Network marketing is the third instruction she sold in.

Okay.

And I always had an issue because when you would come in, they're like, there's no selling involved. Just bring people to the meetings, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, you guys are killing your people. Because everything is sales and communication 100%. So would you feel like that might be a problem in network marketing? They kind of give that mentality. So nobody learns.

Yeah, I think. I think. I think. Yes. I think that that is a symptom of the problem.

Yeah.

The problem is they're attempting to make people believe that something that's hard is easy.

Yeah.

Right. Because selling is not easy. It's just worth it if you learn. But not learning how to sell is not easy either. Right. So you just have to pick your easy and pick your heart.

Yeah. You're gonna be a neurosurgeon. You have to learn how to operate on the brain. It's pretty hard if you don't learn how to operate.

Operate on the brain. Exactly.

Same thing in any profession.

Any profession.

So. So how did you, like, I'm assuming they didn't just go in there and give you some advanced training. You had to kind of figure this out on your own.

I did. Yeah. So I memorized the presentation that was in the flip chart back then, because that's what we used.

Right.

And it was terrible. I was looking for a better word, but it was terrible. And I did the presentation, but I. Even though I wasn't making sales, I was still booking appointments and doing presentations, and I was paying attention to the feedback I was getting, and the feedback was basically, no, bro. Right.

And it's so interesting because you. When I got network marketing, I'm like, this is the easiest thing to sell because everybody's a prospect. Everybody wants to make more money. Everybody wants to have more time. So why are people not joining?

Because most people who are reps in most companies that rep anything are actually more misrepresentatives than they are representatives.

That's good. Yeah, I like that. So you just kind of figured this out?

I did.

How did you figure it out? Did you recognize patterns? What did you do?

So. So after 18 months, I made my first sale.

Okay. So that's a lot of dedication. That's a lot of commitment staying there.

But. It is. But see, you know, one of. One of the best ways to commit not having a plan B.

Burning the. Burning the.

Burning the boat. Yeah, exactly. You don't. I Didn't have a plan B. Yeah. There was no. I had polio as an infant, so there was no professional athletics in my future.

You weren't going to be on the track?

I wasn't going to be on the track. Team wasn't going to be in the NBA, so I didn't know how to play golf. So none of that was it. So what am I going to do? I'm going to do something. Yeah. And these were the only people I had ever seen in my life who were making, like, real crazy significant what happened after that. Just paid attention to what I did and I put. Took the thing that worked finally. Yeah. And instead of getting bored with it, I got paid with it and put it on rinse and repeat. I just kept doing the same thing over and over. Repetition, repetition. Once I found something that worked.

Yeah.

I just refined it.

Yeah. And where did you start learning how to refine it? Did you go through trial and error? Did you learn from somebody?

I did go through a lot of trial and error and I read a lot of books.

Yeah.

So I started out, I read Tom Hopkins, how to Master the Art of Selling Anything. That's where I started.

Right.

And so the two things that I got from Tom Hopkins book that changed my life were, number one, learning to love. No.

Yeah.

And number two was STP20. STP stands for C20. People belly to belly every day. Okay. And so I said, okay, those are things I can do.

You can do that. You can control those things. I can control the having to play the numbers game.

Exactly.

So how did you go from, like, okay, I know how to play the numbers game now I gotta really double down, triple down, quadruple down on my skill game.

Right.

Because obviously, as you know, the numbers game's only going to get you so far because there's just one of you.

That's right.

How did you start to build, like, where did you start, like, hey, learning skills?

I. I went to a lot of trainings, a lot of seminars.

Yeah.

Read a lot of books and then implemented the things that I learned or heard, because I didn't really learn them. Implemented the things that I heard and then learned from the responses that I got.

Which couple books do you feel like? Because books are books, as you know, they're kind of an introduction to the thing you're wanting to master. Right. You're not really mastering it from a book, but it's like an intro. What are a couple books that kind of set you on that path of like, hey, there's more to this than what I know so far.

Yeah. The greatest salesman in the world for me was really Og Mandino. Og Mandino. In fact, all of Og Mandino's books were really great for me. Also some cassette tapes that I had back then. Yeah. The Strangest Secret by Earl Nightingale.

Okay.

That was one of my favorites. And one by Jim Rohn called the Day that Changes yous Life.

Interesting.

Yeah. So I listened to those and because, like, in hindsight, I can see what happened while I was doing it. I didn't know what was happening. I was just. I'm going to figure this thing out.

You're just kind of following what they were doing. You didn't know why you're doing it.

Right. And so. But in hindsight, I realize, like the ultimate tech stack in selling is mindset plus skill set plus tool set equals assets.

And so it's pretty hard to fail if you. You have those three.

Right. And what happens? I think the biggest. I think one of the biggest problems in people learning how to sell is they'll get a tool set. Like they'll get so an autoresponder or Instagram messaging bot or something. And they think the tool set is going to fix their problem or they'll learn a skill set in the form of tactics. But they don't have the mindset. And so they're saying the right thing with their mouth, but their energy is telling the truth on them.

Yeah. Because their tonality, it's the way you say it. Like I always ask, you know, how are this. How. How are salespeople in every industry who sell the same thing at the same price points, do the same prospects using the same script, get completely different results?

100.

It's exactly what you said.

Exactly. And it's, It's. It's not just their tonality. It's how they feel.

Yeah.

When they're saying certainty. Yes. It's their certainty. It's their. I like to tell people you can lie with your words, but your energy always tells the truth.

Yeah. It's like if a salesperson gets an objection, most of them like, well, they get all defensive and their face gets flustered in person. And then your prospects, like their spidey senses or survival, part of the brain picks up on that. Then they're guarded. But if you're like, I always called this Spidey sense. If you're like relaxed and just calm, they stay calm. Their nervous system stays calm.

Right.

So how did you. I mean, most people don't know those type of things. About the brain and getting the guard down. And I've read those books that, that you have there. So there's much more, deeper stuff that you've obviously learned to learn. Like how to get somebody to let their guard down.

Sure. So.

Like, the thing that impacted my life first and foremost, even in network marketing, was a mentor. Like having a mentor who understood the game at a much higher level than I did and then paying him whatever he charged.

Why is that so important? Because I want everybody to pay attention to what Myron's saying here. This is like key number one for you to get where you want to go.

Because.

They'Ve been there, done that, got two T shirts, and if they're good, they know why they've gotten there. All mentors are not created equally. Right. There are some people who are successful because they were at the right place at the right time and they had the right skill set. They didn't have the right mindset, though. So they can't teach you how to have the mindset if they didn't have to develop the mindset.

So true.

And so this meant. The other reason I think it's important is because people who pay pay attention and people who pay a little, pay a little attention. People who pay a lot pay a lot of attention, and people who pay nothing don't pay any attention at all.

As you call them, the free, Free pool people. I want to talk about those, those framing techniques in a minute because those are brilliant framing techniques.

Take.

Take me back to this mentor because I always say the. The most. And I. I've learned this from somebody, whoever. I'm quoting just. I give you the credit. The most. Like, successful people learn from their mistakes. But the most successful people, the top point zero one percent, they don't learn from their mistakes. They learn from other people. They don't make the same mistakes themselves because they're all about speaking speed to, like, I want to overcome the learning curve like next week, right. Next month. Not in five years or 20 years.

Exactly. A mentor is the ultimate shortcut. It's the ultimate shortcut. And time is more valuable than money. And so what people will do is. It's like they have. They suffer from Walmart syndrome. I don't know if I can say that or not, but I already said it. So what they'll do is they'll go to this big ginormous store and waste a whole bunch of time to save 13 cents. It doesn't make sense. Time is the stuff that life is made up. I would rather waste the money and save the time than waste the time and save the money.

It's the cost. It's the frame of like, how much is this actually costing? If you're a salesperson, how much is this costing you in lost deals every day? Because you haven't committed to mastering the right skills, dabbling in those skills. I love this. So you get into sales, you start doing really, really well. Then how did you get into like, you know, being on stage? Because that's it. That's a whole different sales process. And then selling to a person, like in network marketing, consumers, now you're selling in front of a huge audience.

It is.

Those are different things. You have to learn.

It is. And there's, there's so much that speakers who are good at speaking don't understand about the speaking business because they're not the same thing. They're not even almost the same.

Yeah.

And the same mentor who really helped me shortcut sales in general really helped me shortcut selling from the stage.

Okay, so they're an expert in selling from stage.

This guy was an expert. He was an expert. So. And his path was pretty much the same as mine. Got started network marketing and then started doing training in network marketing, then started selling from the stage. And so I got started network marketing. And if you're good at network marketing, which I was good at it, then you also have the opportunity to train people. So I got good at training people. And I thought because I was good at training people and I thought because I was good at selling one on one, that automatically make me good at selling from the stage. But that's not it.

Why is that?

Because they're totally different skill sets. For the same reason that riding a tricycle is not the same as riding a motorcycle. For the exact same reason.

Because now you're not. Like, if you're selling to a consumer, if they have a concern or objection, you're dealing with that and you can talk with them. Let's say you're in front of an audience of 2,000 people. You've got all sorts of different concerns and objections going in their brain. All these stories that they make up on why they can't get started in your thing. And so like, how are you going to take that out of their mind?

Right. And how you take that out of their mind is by getting them to replace that story with another story, not by you attempting to replace that story with another story.

You're helping them. It's like I went to school as a psychologist. So you basically what you're doing is you're taking them out of their belief systems. We call them frames belief systems. That they have the stories and you reframe them into a new belief system of the possibilities of what, you know, 100% for them.

100%.

So there's a lot of techniques that go into that. Talk about, like, how did you get so. You. How did you actually get involved? Like, hey, I'm now speaking on stage.

So. So, because I got tired of network marketing. Yeah. And I said, I'm not doing this anymore. Because I got tired of network marketing company owners changing the compensation plan, and now my income goes to crap because they decided they wanted to do something different. I said, this is stupid. If I'm building a business and some knucklehead is going to mess up my business opportunity, I want the knucklehead to be me, not somebody that just don't know.

They think the compound sounds good in the beginning, but they don't realize this could go happen. This could happen. What if, you know, and then they're like, oh, shit, we're not making any money. We've got to change it.

Right? This is not like network marketers don't realize that if you are a rep in a network marketing company, that is not your business. Right.

You're 1099.

You're a 1099 in somebody else's business. That is your vendor. They are not your. Yeah, it's not your company anyway. And so I got out of that, and a friend of mine started a network marketing company, and he said, hey, if you'll come train my people, I'll pay you $20,000. I said, okay, okay, yeah, that's easy. That's an easy yes.

Right?

And so he paid me $20,000, and I went and trained his people. And another friend of mine who had the same mentor said, hey, man, you need to have Jerry come speak at this event. And I'm like, I don't need to have Jerry come speak at this event. Why would I need him to speak at the event? It's my event. It's not his event, but I let him talk me into it. So I was allowed to sell to the people in the organ in his organization. There were only like, 35 people there, but I was allowed to sell. I made an offer. I did $350 in sales. Jerry, my mentor. He wasn't my mentor then. He was just a guy I bought some of his courses from. He teaches the same group, and they buy $3,500 worth of stuff from Him. I'm like, wait, what just happened? And Jerry says, He says, you're flying out of Dallas tomorrow, right? I said, yeah. He said. He said, come in early. I'll give you some tips on speaking.

Interesting.

So I go meet Jerry for breakfast. It turns into breakfast, it turns into brunch. And we're there for two hours, and me and Stan and Jerry are at lunch, and Jerry's breaking down the speaking business. I'm taking notes. Like, I took probably 15 pages of notes in a two hour lunch. And we got done. Jerry says, oh, don't worry about it. I got lunch. I said, oh, no, sir, you're not gonna teach me how to make a million dollars and buy my lunch. Now, what's fascinating about that is probably 10 years later I told him my recount of that story. He said, oh, yeah, I remember that. He said, if you let me buy lunch that day, I wouldn't have had anything else to do with you because I would have realized that you were a taker and not a giver.

Yeah, because how much money did he really give you there?

Right.

You know, millions of dollars in knowledge.

Millions upon millions upon. Exactly. And so I implemented what he said. And the next very next time I spoke, it was like, there were like 135 people. I did $5,900 in sales, and it was out. It was off to the races after that.

Like, hey, there's something to.

There's something to this. And then there were people in that audience because I was. I was teaching network marketers how to sell their network marketing stuff, and I was selling them courses on how to do that. And so the next time I spoke, somebody who was. Two people were in that audience. One person booked me for two weeks out. Another person booked me for two weeks after that. I did $8,800 in sales and $6,600 in sales. I'm like, you mean I can go and talk about stuff I know about to people who care about it, make them an offer and get paid thousands of dollars a week? Okay, sign me up for that program. Yeah, this is fun.

Now. So a lot of selling from stage, because I want to talk about this and this, this applies to you, you know, watching me here, listening to us. You know, whether you sell virtually, if you sell on the phone, if you sell in person, doesn't really matter. A lot of it is about interrupting patterns.

Sure.

So pattern interrupting. So what's. What's maybe something that you do that's kind of unique on how you interrupt the audience's pattern start, middle end to like really get them to stay engaged and curious about what's going on.

So I think one of the most important things that any salesperson can learn to do is.

To help the people that you're selling to do things that are in your best interest for their best interest.

Exactly. And I'm going to ask you this question and you hit it right on the spot. Is sellings. I always ask everybody, and you already answered it. Is selling something that you do to people or selling something you do for people? People.

Something to do for people.

Exactly. Why is that? I think a lot of sales people don't understand that yet.

Well, first of all, because everybody already desires to buy stuff. Yeah, everybody desires to buy stuff.

Yeah.

And if you have something good and it can impact somebody's life. Yeah. And you sell it to them, you get a little bit of money, they get a lifetime transformation. Yeah. Like how could that possibly be doing something? I'm doing two people, like I always.

Said, like, you're who has the problems. Your prospects are. You exactly. Has a problem. Not you. You're the one that can solve it. So you got to start look, viewing selling differently than Most salespeople have 100 view. Like, oh, it's adversarial. You against the prospect. You're doing it to them. And that's why they play the numbers game.

I have a client and some people are gonna say this is the crazy. They must be insane. Okay, well, they're insanely rich now. But they were stuck at $1.2 million a year for three years.

Okay.

They came into my business owner. A business owner. Okay. They came into my coaching program, my $350,000 VIP day. It's 375,000. But then it was 350. Yeah. I gave them within three months, I gave them the opportunity to upgrade to my million dollar coaching program. And they did.

Yeah.

In less than six months. They had a $1.2 million day. Actually. They generate, they sold from the stage. They did $1.2 million in hour. Exactly in an hour. And they did $5 million last year.

Yeah. Five extra.

I got a million.

Yeah.

They got four extra million. Yeah.

And what are they going to get this year and then next year?

Right. And they get paid on that for the rest of their life.

And I got paid once and see, if Myron didn't have the communication skills, the ability to help them overcome their fear of change, that whatever their story was that was holding them back, they'd still be at 1.2 million. So that is why learning how to communicate is everything. The most important skill set you could literally have in life. I always say it, like. Was Elon Musk the only person that had the concept of electric cars?

No.

Unlikely.

He just wasn't even the first.

He just knew how to communicate the best. Everybody that you. That you see on TV or anybody is. They're there because they've learned how to communicate and frame their message the best.

Yes.

That's why communication skills are so important. So pattern erupting. Let's go back to the cheaple and the freeple stuff. Where did you come up with that concept?

I don't even remember, actually. Oh, you know, I do a guy named Larry in Tampa. I heard him say something about cheaple people one time.

Okay.

And. Or no, he said something about freeple people. I'm like, free pool people. That's a really. And then I. So I just started playing with people. Yeah, Freebo people, cheapo people, feeble people. And then preple people.

And can you. Can you tell everybody what that is? Because I think that's really good. Because you've got this audience, you've got all these people here watching you. They've got all these different type of concerns. And so you can't go talk to them individually and find out what their concerns are. You're up on stage and you've got. You've got to, well, eliminate those. You got to prevent those objections. Right. And you defray.

If you think about it, if you think about it, free people, cheaple people, feeble people and people. Those are all identity shifts.

They are.

Yeah, they're identity shifts.

And it's reality.

Right. Free pool people. Who are they like? Free pool people. I don't work with free pool people. Freebo people who want everything for free. You want everything for free. Good. Go get it from somebody else. Yeah, like. But I don't want to pay.

Great.

You don't have to pay me and I don't have to deal with you. Everybody's happy.

Well, it's like a salesperson who's not willing to invest in their skill level. And then you ask them, well, what objections are you getting from your prospects? And it always comes back to the same. It's too expensive. We can't afford it. And they buy in. And they can't overcome those objections because they believe that story too.

Exactly.

There's no way they can.

Exactly. So they're. They actually are in agreement, ideal, ideologically with that prospect.

You are the objection.

You give exactly 100%.

So you get the free po. People.

Free people. Yeah. And then the next is. Are the cheapo people. They only want stuff for cheap. Right. Like. Like there's a certain brand that says, we sell cheap stuff. Cheap. I'm. No, I'm sorry. We sell good stuff cheap. Sorry. Like, I don't. I don't want cheap stuff. I just want good stuff. Good stuff lasts longer. Cheap stuff is more expensive than quality.

Stuff because you have to keep buying it.

You have to keep buying it over and over. And so cheapo people want everything as long as it's cheap. I'll buy it as long as it's cheap. And then you.

We would call those type of salespeople dabblers. They're the dabblers. They buy a few sales books a year.

Right.

They follow you on Instagram or YouTube. Free tips. You know, they go to a free event and they say, like, as long as I stay in it long enough, get enough reps, eventually I'll figure it out. And that's where most salespeople are. They stay average.

But eventually. Not only eventually, we figure out eventually you'll be dead. So you got to outrun the. Eventually I'll be dead.

And nobody knows when that is.

Exactly.

That's the great part about life. Okay. So you get the cheapo people. Cheapo people, and then you. What's the next feeble people? What's that?

People who are willing to pay a fee. Right. And they're willing to pay a thousand dollars to go to an event or they're willing to pay $5,000 to buy a course.

Yeah. Right.

They're feeble people.

Yeah.

And, you know, they can have some transformation.

Yeah.

But the rapid transfer, some success. They get some success.

We call those the know it allers. Because they know everything about. Because they buy a couple courses, they might start making, like, yes. Low six figures a year. And then they're.

And they become a copy of a cliche.

They get capped. Because they. They don't.

They don't exactly.

Yeah. Like that.

And then the highest level is prepl people. Those are people who are willing to pay a premium.

Yeah.

And people who are willing to pay a premium are deserving to receive a premium.

Yeah.

It's literally a rite of passage.

Yeah.

Like, I like to ask this question, if I'm talking to an audience or if I'm talking to a person, how would you like to have.

A multitude of people lined up outside your business, out the door, around the block, cash and credit card in hand, clamoring to Buy whatever you'd love to sell. Would that be awesome?

Yes.

Okay, cool. Perfect. So I'm going to tell you how you can have that. Are you ready? But I have to ask you a question first. What does a tree have to do to bear apples?

Has to grow.

It has to grow. That's what people say. It has to grow. It has to have water, has to have sunlight. But you know, the most important thing it has to do? It has to be an apple tree. Now what does that mean? That means everything reproduces after its own kind. And you don't get a multitude of people lined up out the door and around the block ready to buy your stuff until you become that kind of buyer. We don't attract the kind of buyers we want. We attract the kind of buyer we are.

That makes so much sense. So that, so you're putting them in an identity frame. And remember, he's not doing it to them, he's doing it for them. For them. Because if he doesn't do this to them, they feel no need to change. And that's why they don't have the urgency.

So. So let's talk about your event. What's the name of your event?

NPQ Mastery would be our next one.

And then what's the stand for?

What's Neuro Emotional Precision question? That's my.

Okay.

Neuro Emotional events are called Sales Con Live.

Sales Con Live. So, so here's what I know. Everybody who's come, how much does, how much are tickets to that event?

Oh, salescon Live is a little bit less. Like a thousand bucks.

Thousand bucks. Okay. So yeah, you have, and you have, let's say you have a thousand people paid a thousand dollars to come to salescon Live. They're not there because they want a chicken sandwich. Yeah. So they've already told me what they want.

Yeah.

All I'm doing if I'm speaking at that event, is showing them how they can get the thing they've already told me by their presence that they desire to have. That's why when I sell them something for a premium, I'm doing something for them because they told me what they want by being there. They provided the content, I provide the context.

Because you're not going to master anything from a three day seminar.

That's right.

What's the saying?

You can't, can't teach a kid to ride a bike in seminar from Sandler.

Okay, so I want to go back into this. This is really good. So the free people, I love that kind of stuff, that framing. Now Want to make sure all of you understand, like, you can use a frame like that, but really selling from stage, selling in person, you know, selling on the phone, selling virtually doesn't matter. It's a series of frames. Like, one frame is not typically going to help that prospect overcome the fear of change. Right. As you know, every objection you get, every reason why somebody doesn't buy, comes in down to the core, that you're human and you have a fear of change. Right. You can't see what's on the other mountainside. You have to pay first, and then you get to see what's on the other side. So you have that little fear. So it's helping them overcome that fear by continually taking them out of their frames or belief systems and reframing and looping. So the reframing, where did you start to develop that?

Yeah, Jerry. Same guy taught me how to reframe stuff. And then once I. Once I learned some reframes from Jerry Clark.

Yeah.

Then I started watching speakers and seeing how they reframed things, saw the patterns.

Have you watched Tony Robbins? I have, yeah. Good. I just went to his date with destiny a couple months ago and I went to, like, see the D frames in the reframe. That's a really good. That's a good reframe. What have you learned from Tony?

The most I've learned from turning Tony was from some of his early stuff like this is like, he was probably in his 20s.

Yeah.

The best stuff that I learned from Tony Robbins, I learned from this old stuff. Like, I had it on cassette tape.

Really?

Yeah. And I think my favorite Tony Robbins quote slash concept is if you want to model any form of human excellence, you have to find somebody who's really, really good at it and model three things. Number one, you model their belief systems. Number two, you model their mental syntax. And number three, you model their physiology. So you model their belief systems. You ask them what they believe about xyz, you ask them the order in which they fire off messages in their brain. That's the syntax. And then you learn how to hold your body in time and space. Like they hold their body in time and space. And I have found that to be so dynamically powerful and work so well. The other thing, the second. My second favorite thing that I've ever heard Tony say is you don't get to control what happens to you. You begin to control three. Three things. What am I going to do about it? What does this mean to me? And what am I going to do next? Yeah, those are probably my two favorite Tony Robbins.

How you react to the thing, when it happens, it separates you apart. Most people react in a negative way. It's, it's. It's the radical talks about, like, hey, if you were abused as a child, well, you need to. You need to give them, like, you need to radically blame them for your success. Because. Because they did that to you, it actually caused you, like, something to happen. Maybe you got a chip on your shoulder. Maybe you just, you know, went all. Not to say abuse is right, obviously, but whatever happened to you as a kid, like, got you where you're at, right? That's how your. That's how your brain thinks, your worldview, and maybe put that chip on your shoulder to be successful and drive. So without that, maybe you grew up in an extremely wealthy family. Maybe you wouldn't be where you're at right now. Even talks about himself, you know. Okay, so let's talk about.

Where did you. Okay, so this. So the reframing techniques. I want to go back into that. So you get. You get up there, you're up on stage. Okay. You know, you got a thousand people there. You know, typically for. Let's say you're doing this for another company or even yourself, you know, like, kind of what their objections are to going. Going to be maybe. Maybe kind of share a few things that you do to, like, maybe the top three objections on how you kind of eliminate those. Them from their mind.

So what would those objections be?

For instance, let's say that they have an objection. Like your objection you typically get from them is like, oh, I just don't have time to learn how to do this. Let's say that that's a time objection.

Okay.

A lot of. A lot of audiences are going to have that. Like when you're selling, like, training or something. I don't have time. Time to learn how to do this. I'm busy. I'm learning from somebody else. I have the time.

Okay, So.

I re. You're asking me how. I'd reframe it because I have a broad strategy. Okay? So what I do is people say, myron, how do you overcome objections? I just don't get them. Right, right, exactly. I don't get objections because an objection is a question that you didn't answer in your presentation, and so it got infected and festered into an objection. So if somebody says, I don't have time, it's because there was something in your presentation that didn't address the fact that if you don't take time to get better, you're just going to get worse over time.

Yeah, right, right. And so you're seeding that frame.

And so how do I reframe that is, I use an epigram like I just did, which is if you don't take time to get better, you're going to get worse over time. So I took the concept of time and I showed both sides of that time coin. Generally speaking, when people have an objection, it's because they're only looking at one aspect of the thing that they're objecting to. They're not looking at the other aspect of it. For instance, let's say somebody says, well, but I just don't want to pay that much. Okay, you don't want to pay that much.

Do you believe you're smart? Yes.

Do you believe one smart person can teach another smart person something they know how to do? Yes. If somebody's made millions and millions of dollars, if you're smart and they're smart, could they teach you how to do it? Yes. Okay, so write down $1 million at the top of a piece of paper and then write down how much you made last year. Subtract it from the million.

Yeah. So let's say they made 200,000 last year. Subtract 800 grand. Right.

So. So because you don't want to pay me $50,000 to learn how to sell better, you paid life $800,000 for not knowing.

See what you just did? This is brilliant. So you took them out of price or cost based thinking and you reframe them to results they want.

Exactly.

They just have this fear of change on, well, I don't know if it'll work for me. I don't know how to get it right. So what all Myron did there is he took them out of that price or cost based thinking frame and he's reframed.

And it's not like I'm making this up, I'm not manipulating them, just helping them become aware of something that's currently real in their experience that they're unaware of. And then I'd say, I'd say something like, okay, so the problem is though, that it didn't just cost you $800,000. That's just how much it cost you last year and the year before that and the year before that, and the year before that and the year before that. Here's the question I have for you. Would you rather pay life again $800,000 this year for not knowing, or would you rather pay me so you can learn and you don't have to live into the land of not knowing anymore.

It's costing you more.

Exactly.

In reality. Which is more expensive.

Exactly.

And then in their brain, they're like, it's way more expensive. Don't pay.

Exactly.

And so all he's doing is reframe them out of way of thinking. And that's what you want to do with your prospects. It doesn't matter if you sell what windows or life insurance or if you sell, you know, cyber security to bank of America.

It's all the same thing.

It's all the same. There's human beings and they have belief systems that you have to take them out and you're doing it for them, not to them. To them. That is a massive difference. I love that. Okay. And that was your. What would you call that frame that you use? Is that you're like, I know.

Well, it's. It's.

It's.

It's the price versus cost frame.

I like that. Right.

It's. Or the price versus worth frame. Poor people know how much everything cost. Rich people know how much everything's worth. That's the difference. If you want to be rich, start asking better questions. How much is it worth?

How much is it worth? All right, a couple other questions here. What would. What would you say is the key principle behind your approach? Let's get into the entrepreneur stuff. What is the key principle behind your approach to business coaching that maybe would set you apart from just a lot of the wannabes out there that sell business coaching.

Yeah. So I think the two biggest things are, one.

I sell from a biblical perspective. And so if I want to be great at sales, I have to sell to serve the people.

Yeah, do it for them.

That's right. Do it for them. I have to sell to serve the people, not sell so the people can serve me. Right. And number two is. And I teach this to people, love your clients so much that you would never sell them anything that would do them harm.

And so this is really key.

Yeah, it is. And by the way, loving people is a funk you can't fake.

Yeah, I agree. And I hate the old saying that, oh, they are so good, they could sell ice to an Eskimo. No, I'm not going to sell ice to an Eskimo. I'm going to sell them them a coat. I'm going to sell them warmer gloves. I'm going to sell them a better shelter. Like, that's what Myron's talking about. You're selling them what they need based on the Problems you help them find.

I like to say it like this. Don't use the money. Don't use the people and love the money. Use the money and love the people and take it to its ultimate extreme. And use the money to love the people.

Exactly. And that's where you start to. That's where God blesses you, where you learn these skills. You know, you have way more abundance because you're doing it for the right reason. Reasons. 100%. Okay, so I love that. So maybe give us a mistake that you made early on in your entrepreneurial journey. Yeah, that maybe I learned a lot from this mistake, but, man, if I would have not done that, you know?

Greatest sales mistake I think people make is trying to get people to buy.

Tell us what you mean.

Okay.

So people do things for their own reasons, not yours.

Yeah.

Most salespeople who are terrible think that selling is convincing people to buy something they don't want to buy.

Exactly.

Persuasion and convincing are not just not the same. They are actually opposites of each other. Convincing is when I attempt to get you to do something I desire you to do for my reasons. Persuasion is when I help you make a decision you already desire to make for your own reasons.

You're doing it for them.

And people say that. People say, well, Marion, how do I find people to sell my stuff to? If you ask the wrong question, you cannot get the right answer.

That's right. Right.

And so that's a really terrible question. How do I find people to sell my stuff to? Here's a better question. Yeah, because there are already thousands, tens of thousands, millions, maybe tens of millions of people in the world who would love to buy what I'd love to sell. How can I make myself more findable for people who already would love to buy what I'd already love to sell?

Exactly.

Then selling becomes effortless. Yes, you still have to have skill. Yes, you still have to understand how to help them, like unpack their old identity. But they already desired the transformation. They're just looking for someone who can empower them to make the decision.

Well, like I always say, you know, Tony Robbins says a version of this. I like to take it a step further. In order to influence at the highest level, you have to get that person or people to feel like you understand them. Their needs, their fears, their desires, even, you know, their ones. All of that, all of it without buying into their story.

100.

That's the unique balance. Right. Because they've already done that. They've already bought into these limiting beliefs. So if you buy into the limiting beliefs, like, they don't have time for this.

Right.

Okay, get back to me next month. We don't have the money for this. Okay, well, when you get the money, get back. See, you're just buying into their story and you offer them zero value.

Right.

Because the problems stay the same and nothing ever changes them. Buy into their story.

Right. They sold you.

Exactly. Most of it is, if you view, like you said, that selling something you're doing to them. So when a salesperson sells to you and you give them all this resistance and all this stuff, you're going to do the same. You're getting the same stuff from your prospects because you don't understand what selling actually is 100%. Once you, once you really started to master that concept, because that's, that's commitment to master.

Right. Only.

Only the Masters would even know what we just talked about.

Right.

It's. It's a different level. What happened in your business, like, once you really started, like, man, I'm getting this down because it's. I'm still learning this stuff.

Yeah. And I'm still. I'm, I'm, I'm. I learn every day, bro. Never let a day go by where I don't want something I didn't know the day before. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. What changed is like money became the byproduct of excellence instead of it becoming the pursuit. Yeah.

So that's true. How did you get into that mindset, though? People don't just happen to get there. Like, what caused you, like, what. What happened there to get you into that mindset?

Desiring to become the best version of myself. Which doesn't mean Myron being better than Jeremy or better than Russell or better than Tony just means me being the best version of me. I don't have any competition. I'm the first, the one and only, the greatest of all times. Myron, Freddie golden, who has ever lived.

Yeah. And that is the right attitude because think about your favorite. Favorite, you know, maybe your NBA basketball story, like LeBron James or Michael Jordan or your favorite, you know, Serena said.

That in reverse order. Michael Jordan, LeBron. I'm just kidding.

I did that for them. I did that for the people watching.

I did that for LeBron fans. I love LeBron, but I'm a loyal MJ guy. I grew up, you know, MJ is the man in high school. So, like, it doesn't matter. Serena Williams, you know, Elon Musk, Warren Buffett, the. The most successful doctors, most successful attorneys. They every, every. They all Share one thing in common and this man just told you it's the commitment to mastery. Because they know that, that training is not something you did in the past. Training is something you do every single day. If you're not training every single day, you're, you're just gonna go, you're just gonna go back.

There's no standing still.

There's no standing still.

You're going forward or backwards, you're growing or dying.

100%. 100%. So that is where commitment to mastery actually comes in. Okay, a couple last questions as we wrap this up. I wanted to go back to commitment to mastery. So, you know, I believe this is one of the industries we train. You know, this coaching consulting industry. And we see a lot of people just, you know, it's like they have success in something for like a year and they're like, I'm going to start my own thing selling this. How do you feel about some of that? Because I feel like sometimes people don't really have the skill level or the nausea.

I think one of their own thing, one of the biggest mistakes employees ever make is thinking that because they're good at doing a job, they think that they're going to be good at running that type of business. And they are totally different animals. Totally different animals. They're not even, they're not even in the same neighborhood. And so I believe that's one of the biggest mistakes that people like ever make. Nobody's great at everything, but everybody's great at something. And I believe that if everybody stayed in their lane, everybody could feel great about the work they do and how they show up to serve other people in the world.

And here's the thing, people can buy your all your training, they can go through all of it and they can go start their own thing competing against you, thinking the one thing they cannot buy is your experience and your wisdom. Because they don't have the experience and wisdom themselves. They will never be 5% of what I do with clients because they don't understand why they're doing it. And that takes experience and wisdom. That takes longevity. I had an 18 year sales career at the top of my game before I even started my own sales training company. And I see people sell for one year. I'm a sales trainer now. I'm like, dude, if I would have done that after one year, right, you wouldn't know who I am. It's like I wouldn't have the experience and knowledge to be able to do this in every industry. It just takes time.

It Takes. It takes time. Time, like the purpose of time is becoming. The formula for success is be, do, have.

Yeah.

The platform for success is time, space and matter. The purpose of time is being. The purpose of space is doing. The purpose of matter is having. Be, do have, be, do have.

That's a really good frame as well. Myron, that was a great, great interview. We're going to have to do this more often here. Where can people learn about what you do, about, you know, learning how to speak and sell from stage? Because I always say that you can be a great speaker, people can stand up and give you like an applause, but people vote based on their dollars, 100% if they're buying your stuff from stage compared to just giving you a round of applause. Because giving you a round of applause, you help them a little bit. They're not going to retain 97% of that with 30 days.

Right. So you've got to get us into your. You've got to sell them a course, a coaching program, a mastermind that they can go study for the next year, two years, three years, so they can take the time to become the person who can do the thing.

They're not going to do that in a two or three day seminar or an hour and a half training. So where can they go to learn more about what you do and get some.

Like, if they go to myrongolden.com pretty much they can find anything they need to know about our coaching programs, about our challenges, about our books, whatever.

Yeah, go to myringold myrongold.com, we'll put that in the show notes. And if you have questions, if you're like, hey, how do I learn how to frame for what I sell? I sell solar or SAS or life insurance or whatever you sell. Easiest way to get ahold of me is simply to text me. So I'm gonna give you the number 480-637-2944. Myself and a few of our sales trainers lock ourself in a room about an hour a day and we actually answer your text messages. Myron, it's been a pleasure.

Pleasure been mine.

Great interview.

Fantastic.

All right, thanks everybody. We'll see you next show.